Open thread: The VP debate

posted at 8:31 pm on October 11, 2012 by Allahpundit

9 p.m. ET across the dial. It’s true that VP debates usually don’t matter, and Gallup has the data to prove it. It’s also true that the shellacking Romney gave to the Empty Chair in Denver has created an unusual and unpredictable late swing in momentum. What we’re looking at tonight, then, isn’t so much a potential gamechanger as an opportunity to preserve a game that’s already changed. If Ryan makes a good impression, it’ll cement the impression Romney made at the last debate and give undecideds more confidence in rolling the dice on the new guys. That makes Biden’s task simple: Ensure that Ryan doesn’t make a good impression by calling him a liar, a woman-hater, blah blah. Dave Weigel went back through the Biden debate archive and found that he’s perfectly comfortable in that role:

The Clatworthy debates give us a better idea of Biden’s style than the Palin debate of 2008. That match-up was sui generis. Biden’s job then: Just don’t do anything that would make a swing voter root for the put-upon Hockey Mom. But Biden’s job, in his Senate races, was to humiliate Republicans by pointing out how cruel their policies were, and how little they knew. Abortion and women’s safety issues, which he could never deploy against Palin, are the tools he knows best. When Biden meets Ryan tonight, it would be out of character if he didn’t try to mire him in a discussion of pro-life bills and “legitimate rape.” Plenty of pols use soft language when they have to discuss those issues. Biden doesn’t.

Really, whenever an issue can be mined for pathos, Biden thrives. In the second Clatworthy debate, after the Republican failed to trap the senator into a joint PAC money-pledge press conference (“See if anyone shows up and pays attention to you,” said Biden), moderators switched the discussion to entitlements. It was 1996, and the fiscal problem du jour was whether to balance the budget by 1999 or by 2002. Clatworthy suggested that a privatized Social Security system and privatized Veterans Affairs administration would be more efficient. Biden reacted like he’d just heard a Tourettes patient question the death toll of the Holocaust.

A few days ago I predicted plenty of table-pounding atmospherics from Greasy Joe in the name of re-energizing deflated liberals and winning back wavering middle-class indies. With Obama advisors now telling Politico to expect a “very aggressive” debate, I’ll stand by that. He’s not going to win this on substance, but if he gets outrageously outraged enough, the media will award him the decision on “style” for having effectively channeled their own anger at the prospect of a GOP win. (Besides, it’s the first step in the inevitable “Obama comeback” narrative.) Hope Ryan’s ready to repel a sustained effort to keep him on the defensive, especially since, with Biden’s favorables already underwater, he doesn’t have to worry about coming off as a nice guy. Read Ace for more on why it’s foolish to underestimate him: The moderator’s under pressure not to anger the left the way Jim Lehrer did, all issues — including easy demagogue-able “war on women” trivia — are on the table, and Biden’s proved plenty of times that he’s good enough behind a mic to impress low-information voters. The left needs someone tonight who can grandstand effectively, not out-brainiac Ryan on federal budget minutiae. A guy who got elected to the Senate six times and then to the vice-presidency can grandstand effectively.

Robert Costa has a nice piece on Ryan’s exhaustive debate prep so read that while you’re waiting for the show to start. (Note the bit about Ted Olson mimicking Biden down to his hand gestures.) One obvious X factor: How much time will moderator Martha Raddatz spend on the White House’s Benghazi clusterfark? A Romney advisor told Byron York that Ryan’s prepared to hammer Obama’s “unraveling” foreign policy, but that he probably won’t get into the weeds on Libya and the subsequent cover up. That might be for the best: When it comes to terrible foreign-policy decisions endorsed by his opponent tonight, there’s an awful lot of other ground to cover.

Here’s the handy dandy Hot Air/Townhall widget for debate live-tweeting. If you’re looking for drinking-game rules, Reason has got you covered. Exit quotation: “Joe just needs to be Joe.”



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One woman liked Biden.

Jaibones on October 11, 2012 at 11:07 PM

3000

SparkPlug on October 11, 2012 at 11:07 PM

I think it’s fair to say, Biden was just too uncivil.

lynncgb on October 11, 2012 at 11:07 PM

“If you read a transcript, it will come off as a draw.”

PolAgnostic on October 11, 2012 at 10:58 PM

If the transcript includes all of Biden’s interruptions, then Ryan wins.

conservative pilgrim on October 11, 2012 at 11:07 PM

One woman liked Biden.

Jaibones on October 11, 2012 at 11:07 PM

The one undecided woman in America who doesn’t have the hots for Ryan.

cozmo on October 11, 2012 at 11:08 PM

3001

Philly on October 11, 2012 at 11:08 PM

joshbranson ‏@joshbranson

BREAKING: Post-debate poll has…Biden interrupting the results. #vpdebate

INC on October 11, 2012 at 11:08 PM

Shaun Kenney @svkenney

Stat of the night: Joe Biden interrupted Paul Ryan 96 times. Paul Ryan interrupted Joe Biden 6 times. (Insert Biden laugh here.) #VPDebates

JPeterman on October 11, 2012 at 11:03 PM

The “live shot” girl (Tori somethingorother) reports for different ABC stations, tonight in her live shot at the top of the hour said they “both interrupted each other”. What a joke!

Paul-Cincy on October 11, 2012 at 11:08 PM

If the transcript includes all of Biden’s interruptions, then Ryan wins.

conservative pilgrim on October 11, 2012 at 11:07 PM

I’m sure they just copy-pasted [CROSSTALK] over and over again to make it seem as if Ryan was just as responsible.

KingGold on October 11, 2012 at 11:08 PM

Ryan wins for the “what comes out of your mouth” zinger alone.

Biden failed to deliver. He didn’t make me laugh once, and that’s all most people wanted from him tonight–more “Stand up, Chuck!”

Christien on October 11, 2012 at 11:10 PM

The post-debate spin-room interviews are amazing. They brought in a Dem Governor to praise Biden unfettered by the “journalists” commentary, by asking him just one question: “Tell us how the Vice President did tonight”.

Then they brought in a Republican Senator for the Ryan spin. They hammered him with question after question, they disagreed with his answers and content, and then they finished up by asking “Is there one thing about which you wish Congressman Ryan had done better?”

No bias there. Just like the moderator, no bias…

Freelancer on October 11, 2012 at 10:55 PM

That’s not bias. That was INTENTIONAL.

fossten on October 11, 2012 at 11:10 PM

Nite all. 2:30 comes early. For all who thought the fight was over last week welcome to this week.

Limerick on October 11, 2012 at 11:10 PM

Slept through it all, is it worth watching and reading all 30 pages here?

karenhasfreedom on October 11, 2012 at 11:10 PM

Online “Poll”, correct?

Del Dolemonte

Nope. A poll of 500 people they tapped to watch the debate and pick a winner after. Did they skew the selection? Who knows.

xblade on October 11, 2012 at 11:10 PM

The D’s think Biden won because he wasn’t quite as bad as Obama.

Tater Salad on October 11, 2012 at 11:03 PM

Low bar huh?

slickwillie2001 on October 11, 2012 at 11:10 PM

KingGold on October 11, 2012 at 11:08 PM

Most likely, just like they only insert “uhhs” when it’s an R speaking.

conservative pilgrim on October 11, 2012 at 11:10 PM

Mary Matalin on CNN Panel:

Joe Biden was a “Buffoon.”

wren on October 11, 2012 at 11:11 PM

Biden also kept rambling. There were times he made statements or sentences that went nowhere and had no meaning. One sentence had nothing to do with the next one and neither made a point about anything. But he’d wave his arms around while making faces and it all sounded good if you didn’t listen.

JellyToast on October 11, 2012 at 11:11 PM

Wow, Lunz’s group, NONE of them were swayed by this debate to support one or the other ticket.

karenhasfreedom on October 11, 2012 at 11:11 PM

Just think about how Hispanic viewers now view Biden:

Loco Gringo….

MichaelGabriel on October 11, 2012 at 11:11 PM

Missed the debates and came to Hot Air to get the skinny.

One question – Did Ryan give the opposition anything specific
to crow about or repeat endlessly in either their talking points
or their ads?

Amjean on October 11, 2012 at 11:11 PM

Like I said, libs are going to love this but Biden painted himself into a corner in a loit of areas. ten bucks says the intelligence community starts to open a can of worms in information on Benghazi for these incompetent idiots.

hawkdriver on October 11, 2012 at 10:59 PM

.
Back in 1980, I was friends with a senior officer in a major initiative with access to all Presidential and above information.

He hated Reagan (and this fellow was to the right of Genghis Khan) with a purple passion.

Why?

Reagan’s lie about “a window of opportunity” for the Soviet Union to attack us with nuclear weapons. He knew it was a patently false and could NEVER forgive him for it. He also knew the people who had briefed Reagan and therefore knew Reagan knew he was lying.

I said it in an earlier post. The intelligence community will make the Obama administration pay for that lie before November 6th.

PolAgnostic on October 11, 2012 at 11:11 PM

Everyone chill – Biden drove away the people he needed. Uncommitted, independent,and women hate what he did. Ryan had no fumbles. This makes Obama’s base happy – trying to drive turnout. But with the national liberal media revolted by his actions, and remembering what GOre’s antics cost him back in 2000 I think this doesn’t do much to stop the slide in polling. The groups Obama needs to stop losing to Romney are the ones most put off – and so this debate will also hurt Obama where it counts most.

Zomcon JEM on October 11, 2012 at 11:12 PM

Luntz group was a bunch of dunces tonight.

JPeterman on October 11, 2012 at 11:12 PM

Slept through it all, is it worth watching and reading all 30 pages here?

karenhasfreedom on October 11, 2012 at 11:10 PM

How dare you even post before reading all 31 pages, and taking notes.

Otherwise, no.

cozmo on October 11, 2012 at 11:12 PM

Without watching, I know who won this…

… more so, who lost.

Joey couldn’t help himself, and already everyone has forgotten what was said…

… but everyone is talking about what a Horse’s A%% he is.

Disrespectful, Rude, …

… The Left is going to eat this up because they have the morals and manners of a goat.

I highly doubt anyone was swayed by Joey’s antics who wasn’t already in the tank for Pantload already…

… Reminded me of Al Gore. (phhhhffftttt!)

Seven Percent Solution on October 11, 2012 at 11:12 PM

Frank luntz in OH with his focus group.

Laura in Maryland on October 11, 2012 at 11:04 PM

Supposedly all the undecided voters are still undecided.

WHO THE F ARE THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE SOMEHOW UNDECIDED AT THIS POINT GIVEN THE STATE OF THIS COUNTRY AND THE WORLD?!?!?!?

Yakko77 on October 11, 2012 at 11:12 PM

Why was the moderator debating against Ryan too?

southernms on October 11, 2012 at 10:53 PM

Yeah, good question. She also kept stopping Ryan as he was making points and allowed Biden to go on and on. It was like 2 against one.

Twitchy seems to be showing a lot of tweets about Biden’s creepy smirk.
http://twitchy.com/2012/10/11/why-so-serious-bidens-debate-grimace-creeps-out-angers-viewers/

JellyToast on October 11, 2012 at 10:55 PM

Worst Moderation I have ever seen.

She was so in love with Biden it was completely obvious. He could go on forever but she cut off Ryan as soon as she did not like what he was saying. She could care less if Biden interrupted Ryan but Ryan had better never interrupt Biden.

Guess she likes old men.

Steveangell on October 11, 2012 at 11:12 PM

Biden’s style will mean nothing in the end.

Ryan was supposed to win on Medicare. Did not happen. Unbelievable.

Biden wins big on abortion. Why can’t we bring up Obama’s desire for partial birth abortion? Dem’s have to be prepping commercials on abortion as we speak. Big loss here if getting votes is of any concern.

Ryan very scripted. Biden very natural at being a bully. Ryan didn’t give us much and gave them meat for new ad’s.

Hopefully this will all mean nothing come next Tuesday and Romney can keep his mojo going.

Carnac on October 11, 2012 at 11:13 PM

Missed the debates and came to Hot Air to get the skinny.

One question – Did Ryan give the opposition anything specific
to crow about or repeat endlessly in either their talking points
or their ads?

Amjean on October 11, 2012 at 11:11 PM

Definitely not.

JPeterman on October 11, 2012 at 11:13 PM

The wife is watching Fox…Hannity (aka “Grinning Dimwit”). I just watched Frank Luntz and his focus group. They are truly Luntz’s Dunces.

ManlyRash on October 11, 2012 at 11:13 PM

I just don’t understand how at this point there are still undecideds. I mean, really? Are they that dense?

Gettycorn on October 11, 2012 at 11:14 PM

I’m sure they just copy-pasted [CROSSTALK] over and over again to make it seem as if Ryan was just as responsible.

KingGold on October 11, 2012 at 11:08 PM

I can’t wait for the dust to settle over the next few days. The ad(s) highlighting Biden’s interruptions should be a lot of fun for all but 0-bow-mao’s supporters to see!

Anti-Control on October 11, 2012 at 11:14 PM

Supposedly all the undecided voters are still undecided.

WHO THE F ARE THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE SOMEHOW UNDECIDED AT THIS POINT GIVEN THE STATE OF THIS COUNTRY AND THE WORLD?!?!?!?

Yakko77 on October 11, 2012 at 11:12 PM

Idiots? Or just a bunch fools who want to be on TV?

JPeterman on October 11, 2012 at 11:14 PM

WHO THE F ARE THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE SOMEHOW UNDECIDED AT THIS POINT GIVEN THE STATE OF THIS COUNTRY AND THE WORLD?!?!?!?

Yakko77 on October 11, 2012 at 11:12 PM

People who want to be on the next focus group.

Hotel, food, money, be on TV. I’m pretty sure more than a few of them ain’t undecided.

cozmo on October 11, 2012 at 11:14 PM

I am satisfied with the way Ryan comported himself during this debate. I do wish he would have at least once directly engaged Biden and asked him to hush for just a minute. However I still think rational people saw what many of us saw. The optics favor Ryan.

Bmore on October 11, 2012 at 11:14 PM

Bishop…! Biden…!

Seven Percent Solution on October 11, 2012 at 11:15 PM

Halloween is coming up. Where can I get a Joe Biden creepy smirk mask to scare the tricker treaters? Eeeesh.

bitsy on October 11, 2012 at 11:15 PM

People who want to be on the next focus group.

Hotel, food, money, be on TV. I’m pretty sure more than a few of them ain’t undecided.

cozmo on October 11, 2012 at 11:14 PM

Yep they like the attention.

gophergirl on October 11, 2012 at 11:15 PM

Joey clearly pounded Jolt Cola, but where was that bayonet? With all his wincing, it appears he was sitting on it.

Christien on October 11, 2012 at 11:15 PM

Wow, Lunz’s group, NONE of them were swayed by this debate to support one or the other ticket.

karenhasfreedom on October 11, 2012 at 11:11 PM

Saw that. Lots of opinion. No one had their minds made up.

PolAgnostic on October 11, 2012 at 11:11 PM

I’m waiting for someone to pick it out of the debate comments, Biden blamed Benghazi on the intelligence community and said no one asked for upgraded security.

hawkdriver on October 11, 2012 at 11:15 PM

Krauthammer:

If you read the transcript, a draw.

If you listened on the radio, Biden won.

If you watched on TV, Ryan won.

Sounds like the Kennedy-Nixon debate. We know what happened. TV trumps radio and transcripts.

Resist We Much on October 11, 2012 at 11:16 PM

People who want to be on the next focus group.

Hotel, food, money, be on TV. I’m pretty sure more than a few of them ain’t undecided.

cozmo on October 11, 2012 at 11:14 PM

Bingo.

This group was especially awful..

JPeterman on October 11, 2012 at 11:16 PM

Plenty of new material for Romney ads, if he wants to use them.

I think he should keep going with the 12 million new jobs message, though.

22044 on October 11, 2012 at 11:16 PM

The wife is watching Fox…Hannity (aka “Grinning Dimwit”). I just watched Frank Luntz and his focus group. They are truly Luntz’s Dunces.

ManlyRash on October 11, 2012 at 11:13 PM

Were you grinning, or frowning, when you were busy reassuring everyone 4 years ago that McCain had the election in the bag?

Anti-Control on October 11, 2012 at 11:16 PM

The wife is watching Fox…Hannity (aka “Grinning Dimwit”). I just watched Frank Luntz and his focus group. They are truly Luntz’s Dunces.

ManlyRash on October 11, 2012 at 11:13 PM

Dude, what up?

hawkdriver on October 11, 2012 at 11:16 PM

Ryan wins CNN poll.

Raquel Pinkbullet on October 11, 2012 at 11:17 PM

The other thing I noticed on CNN is that taxing the rich seems popular.

Cindy Munford on October 11, 2012 at 11:17 PM

Idiots? Or just a bunch fools who want to be on TV?

JPeterman on October 11, 2012 at 11:14 PM

I was just thinking the same thing…want their 15 mins of fame.

Mitsouko on October 11, 2012 at 11:17 PM

Biden wins big on abortion. Why can’t we bring up Obama’s desire for partial birth abortion? Dem’s have to be prepping commercials on abortion as we speak. Big loss here if getting votes is of any concern.

If you think this election is going to be won on ads about abortion, you are smoking something. Those ads would drive as many people to the polls to vote out Obama as they would the other way. They are a wash. There isn’t some mythical massive pro abortion majority.

Arssanguinus on October 11, 2012 at 11:17 PM

It’s true though, Ryan needs to spark things up a little. Change his speaking style. Find a natural way of talking that has a little more passion. He’s nearly there, but not quite. A little too robotic at times and way often too polite.

JellyToast on October 11, 2012 at 11:17 PM

Ryan won. Biden looked weird and when he spoke he rambled and stammered.

magicbeans on October 11, 2012 at 11:17 PM

I’m guessing at least 50 million tonight.

xblade on October 11, 2012 at 11:05 PM

Snort.

CW on October 11, 2012 at 11:17 PM

Luntz’s focus group said the moderator did not control the debate and teamed up with Biden on Ryan.

This group Luntz had was predominantly Obama voters in 2008. Show of hands made it roughly 19 out of 24.

There were 4 clear “plants” (people who had talking points they rattled off – too clearly scripted – which is ridiculous, we knew better back 20 years ago).

None of Luntz’s group was willing to say this debate had made them decide.

PolAgnostic on October 11, 2012 at 11:17 PM

Anti-Control on October 11, 2012 at 11:16 PM

People can’t be mistaken? Wishful?

Cindy Munford on October 11, 2012 at 11:18 PM

Slept through it all, is it worth watching and reading all 30 pages here?

karenhasfreedom on October 11, 2012 at 11:10 PM

Definitely worth watching!

I haven’t been able to read all 30 pages of comments yet because it is taking forever for each page to load.

wren on October 11, 2012 at 11:18 PM

A week from now, all this will be forgotten…

… We will all be talking how Pantload crapped his pants again in front of another 70 million people.

Seven Percent Solution on October 11, 2012 at 11:18 PM

Were you grinning, or frowning, when you were busy reassuring everyone 4 years ago that McCain had the election in the bag? – Anti-Control on October 11, 2012 at 11:16 PM

Obviously a noob.

ManlyRash on October 11, 2012 at 11:18 PM

The wife is watching Fox…Hannity (aka “Grinning Dimwit”). I just watched Frank Luntz and his focus group. They are truly Luntz’s Dunces.

ManlyRash on October 11, 2012 at 11:13 PM

Undecided people are morons.

JellyToast on October 11, 2012 at 11:18 PM

Once the facts are sorted out between interruptions it will be interesting to hear comments on substance. I do think as Joes RedBull buzz waned he stepped in it a bit on both Syria and Libya.

Bmore on October 11, 2012 at 11:18 PM

Steelers back in the lead! 20-16, 13:39 left 4th quarter

22044 on October 11, 2012 at 11:06 PM

Thanks for the update!

Night Owl on October 11, 2012 at 11:19 PM

So someone tell me. Was it in the rules that you can interrupt the other guy whenever you damned well pleased? Seriously I gotta know.

CW on October 11, 2012 at 11:19 PM

I cannot fathom how anyone can be undecided at this point. Socialism or capitalism. Stagnation or growth. These are some dense people.

Philly on October 11, 2012 at 11:19 PM

Krauthammer says:
1. The substance of the debate was a draw.
2. If you listened on radio…Biden won due to passion.
3. If you watched on TV, Ryan won because of Bidens’ demeanor.

I’m calling this one a draw and don’t think any polls will be influenced. Ryan let Biden get away with murder…96 interruptions to 6 !! Romney had better be prepared for this kind of tactic next week.

I hated Biden’s use of “MY FRIEND” instead of calling Ryan by his name even ONCE. Smarminess to the max. Mr. Biden…I know Paul Ryan and he’s no friend of yours! :D

camaraderie on October 11, 2012 at 11:19 PM

CNN POLL. RYAN 48 BIDEN 44

WOW!!!!

picklesgap on October 11, 2012 at 11:19 PM

Biggest loser tonight – Big Bird. Not one mention after being the focus of a campaign for a week.

milcus on October 11, 2012 at 11:19 PM

The intelligence community will make the Obama administration pay for that lie before November 6th.

PolAgnostic on October 11, 2012 at 11:11 PM

Are they committed enough to take this administration down?

We’re doing our best out here as ordinary citizens to GOTV, but I can tell you that none of us feel safe or sleep well at night. We haven’t for a long time.

Cody1991 on October 11, 2012 at 11:19 PM

I think it’s important to remember that Ryan’s a congressman whose never been on a stage this big. He did fine, but clearly lacked polish…although that’s tough to do when the VP is yelling in your ear and the moderator is encouraging him.

newtopia on October 11, 2012 at 11:20 PM

Luntz Group Female: “I thought Joe was very eloquent.”

Shill.

Typicalwhitewoman on October 11, 2012 at 11:20 PM

Clint was right, again. Biden is the intellect of the Democratic party and also a grin with a body behind it.

Christien on October 11, 2012 at 11:20 PM

The way I see this debate, its BAD NEWS for Obama. The Frank Luntz undecided group on FOX…when asked “Did this debate make you decided finally, unequivocally decide which way to vote now?”…answered: NONE. NO ONE set their vote based upon this debate. And that’s horrible news for Obama. He NEEDED another shift in his direction, to prevent/slow down the Romney surge that’s going on in the polls. Now, this debate being neutral, will make people still remember the smack down that Romney gave Obama last week, until next week’s debate. This should allow Romney to continue to surge in the polls. Another thing which should help Romney continue to rise: the CNN focus group labeled Biden as “more likable” but RYAN as the one with “better plans for the future”. And THAT’S what is going to decide this election: who has a better plan to take the country…*ahem*…forward into the future. And with independents between last week and this week, that answer appears to be “Romney and Ryan”.

(Sorry if this is old info…haven’t read all the other posts…was watching the tweets through the debate.)

Highlar on October 11, 2012 at 11:20 PM

Looks like the obsequious smarmy mocking smile is the only thing that will be remembered.

Great job, Joe!

John the Libertarian on October 11, 2012 at 11:21 PM

So is the moderator getting some face from Biden as we speak?

CW on October 11, 2012 at 11:21 PM

There were 4 clear “plants” (people who had talking points they rattled off – too clearly scripted – which is ridiculous, we knew better back 20 years ago).

None of Luntz’s group was willing to say this debate had made them decide.

PolAgnostic on October 11, 2012 at 11:17 PM

The wife/woman in the first row to the left…plant?

The chubby blond lady in the front row who said Biden was on fire?

JPeterman on October 11, 2012 at 11:21 PM

CW on October 11, 2012 at 11:19 PM

Libs want their “fair share”, but they aren’t willing to give anything in return. They’ll steal to get it. They only follow Rules for Radicals.

Philly on October 11, 2012 at 11:21 PM

Time for another update:
Shaun Suisham kicks a 52-yard field goal to put the Steelers ahead 23-16, with 8:22 left in the 4th quarter.
Now back to Hot Air Nation!

22044 on October 11, 2012 at 11:21 PM

I loved Ryan’s abortion answer! Although I don’t know if it will help us to win or not. That’s what made up my mind too. I had the invitro sonogram (liberals call it rape) with my last child very early and saw a little bean with a heart beat. Science will be what changes minds about abortion. I’m glad that Paul Ryan spoke from the heart.

magicbeans on October 11, 2012 at 11:22 PM

Looks like both CNN and Fox go for Ryan – but close – but women in both hated Biden. Not good for the One. Death spiral may now continue. All ROmney has to do is hold serve and its over.

Zomcon JEM on October 11, 2012 at 11:22 PM

Cuda!

Philly on October 11, 2012 at 11:22 PM

My Take (I will start with the bad first…

The Bad: Ryan did not do well with the Afghanistan issue. Most Americans want out of Afghanistan and Biden to his credit scored points there. This is an issue that hurts Republicans and continues to because we stupidly keep trying to hold the Bush line on these things. He let Biden interrupt him to much without fighting back. You have to fight back against a bully or you will look weak to some people. Ryan’s biggest mistake was trying to be logical and trying lay out facts, and what Biden tried to do was use force, plain language, and emotion to appeal to low information voters. Bar room talk…:)

The Good: Biden so over did the bar room tactic that he may have turned off women, therefore nullifying any advantage he and Obama are supposed to have in this debate. He came off as a slightly half lit jerk. That might appeal to blue collar men, but not the blue collar women who probably don’t have good memories of their blue collar man coming home drunk and acting like a complete ass hat. Biden also lost points with his idiotic responses to the Libya.

In all honesty it was not exactly a deep debate. I am not sure most Americans really care about VPs anyway. The only people who really care are political junkies like us who post on sites like this. I doubt it changes much either way…

William Eaton on October 11, 2012 at 11:22 PM

Missed the debates and came to Hot Air to get the skinny.

One question – Did Ryan give the opposition anything specific
to crow about or repeat endlessly in either their talking points
or their ads?

Amjean on October 11, 2012 at 11:11 PM

Does it matter? The Obama team will make something up regardless.

TQM38a on October 11, 2012 at 11:22 PM

Luntz group was a bunch of dunces tonight.

JPeterman on October 11, 2012 at 11:12 PM

Seems they are most of the time; I can’t stand to watch his segments anymore.

Nutstuyu on October 11, 2012 at 11:22 PM

Gloria Borger on CNN Panel:

Paul Ryan demonstrated a “fluency in foreign policy” tonight.

wren on October 11, 2012 at 11:23 PM

Joe the Patriotic‏@joethepatriotic

Three things were missing from the debate: Biden’s top hat, Biden’s tap shoes, and Biden’s Marx Brothers sheet music @vp @PaulRyanVP

Seven Percent Solution on October 11, 2012 at 11:23 PM

I got my first mailing for Romney today in PA. I think Mitt could be more aggressive with his campaigning here.

Philly on October 11, 2012 at 11:23 PM

Go Steelers!

Philly on October 11, 2012 at 11:24 PM

Dr. K is right – on TV, Biden lost big time. Debate did not move the needle, he says. Will it affect upcoming debates? Don’t know.

Philly on October 11, 2012 at 10:58 PM

….absolutely will effect the upcoming debates.The dems love this tactic and think they won with it tonight.Blue print for the next Presidential debate.
Obama will continually make smart remarks and try to under cut Romney while he speaks. Romney will either have to counter or call him on it directly.

If democrats want to turn the debates into a filibusterer/interruption game….then Romney can do it to and the whole debate will be one big cluster f*#k until order is established.

Romney can easily defeat this tactic by addressing Obama directly when he tries this and just ignoring the moderator since they are not doing their job anyway.Romney just needs to keep a smile on his face and hammer Obama when he interrupts.

Baxter Greene on October 11, 2012 at 11:25 PM

I am satisfied with the way Ryan comported himself during this debate. I do wish he would have at least once directly engaged Biden and asked him to hush for just a minute. However I still think rational people saw what many of us saw. The optics favor Ryan.

Bmore on October 11, 2012 at 11:14 PM

.
He did – and pressed through Biden’s interruptions of him asking him to stop the interruptions.

Note my earlier post to ManlyRash regarding 3 different Bidens

Biden had a coach in the audience who was tied into the Obama campaign focus groups.

Biden as “your drunk obnoxious uncle who shouts everyone down at Thanksgiving dinner” went on way too long – there must have been a lot of Axelrod resistance to giving up on that approach.

PolAgnostic on October 11, 2012 at 11:26 PM

I seem to remember seeing Biden mention something about “rope-a-dope” during the lead in to the debate. How right he was. He was the dope that hung himself with his rope. He came across as condescending, arrogant, and rude. While the debate won’t win/lose the election, he didn’t help da One out at all. And all Romney needs to do is keep up the pressure at the next debate, and with this Libya issue exploding, look for da One to fumble, again.

TQM38a on October 11, 2012 at 11:26 PM

I said that too when Ryan made that comment. Move over Big Bird. The “war on women” is back.

conservative pilgrim on October 11, 2012 at 10:54 PM

Good. The War on Wimmins was only slightly less successful than Big Bird. Women care about the economy. They got nothing.

The wife is watching Fox…Hannity (aka “Grinning Dimwit”). I just watched Frank Luntz and his focus group. They are truly Luntz’s Dunces.

ManlyRash on October 11, 2012 at 11:13 PM

Were you grinning, or frowning, when you were busy reassuring everyone 4 years ago that McCain had the election in the bag?

Anti-Control on October 11, 2012 at 11:16 PM

Leave Manly alone. He did what he had to do and he fell on his sword. Then he spent 4 years in the wilderness, and he’s back, for which those of us with discernment here on HA are glad. Why don’t you do something useful and drop your snark on any of the 10-odd trolls who are fouling up the site tonight, instead of ankle-biting?

smellthecoffee on October 11, 2012 at 11:26 PM

Undecided people are morons.

JellyToast on October 11, 2012 at 11:18 PM

But they sure do get a lot of attention. Needy.

Cindy Munford on October 11, 2012 at 11:26 PM

People can’t be mistaken? Wishful?

Cindy Munford on October 11, 2012 at 11:18 PM

That doesn’t answer the question I asked!

Anti-Control on October 11, 2012 at 11:26 PM

I hope Romney gets the rules of the debate defined better than this one: ask a question that Joe gets to answer first using as much time as he wants then let Ryan talk for a few seconds while being interrupted by the moderator and Joe, then change the subject.

HellCat on October 11, 2012 at 11:26 PM

Breitbart is already on the case…

“Biden Contradicts State Department: ‘We Did Not Know [Benghazi Consulate] Wanted More Security’”

Seven Percent Solution on October 11, 2012 at 11:26 PM

Why are so many people using “to” instead of “too”? We’re looking like a bunch of lib trolls.

Nutstuyu on October 11, 2012 at 11:27 PM

Romney can easily defeat this tactic

Baxter Greene on October 11, 2012 at 11:25 PM

Americans vote for HOPE. The used-car salesman from Chicago exploited this in 2008. But the only hope this election is with R&R.

John the Libertarian on October 11, 2012 at 11:28 PM

Why are so many people using “to” instead of “too”?

You to?

newtopia on October 11, 2012 at 11:28 PM

PolAgnostic on October 11, 2012 at 11:26 PM

; ) Agreed, of course on the other hand 7% may be correct. Dust in the wind. No one will remember even the ones who took time to notice in the first instance.

Bmore on October 11, 2012 at 11:28 PM

WTF is up with Sean Hannity’s hair? It looks like someone drove a tiny lawnmower across his head to make a part in his coif. I don’t often see 4mm of scalp when someone bisects their follicles.

shibumiglass on October 11, 2012 at 11:29 PM

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