Gun microstamping could close American factories

posted at 5:31 pm on October 6, 2012 by Jazz Shaw

I understand that gun owners’ rights and the Second Amendment haven’t really been a touchstone in this year’s elections, but that doesn’t mean that the battle isn’t still being waged. One story out this month hits pretty close to home for me, both figuratively and literally. It involves the Remington Arms plant located in Ilion, a village in upstate New York. They are currently battling a pending move by the state government which would force them to put laser etched microstamps on the firing pins of all their weapons, driving costs through the roof.

Microstamping, or ballistic imprinting, is a patented process that uses laser technology to engrave a tiny marking of the make, model and serial number on the tip of a gun’s firing pin to allow an imprint of that information on spent cartridge cases. Supporters of the technology say it will be a “game changer,” allowing authorities to quickly identify the registered guns used in crimes. Opponents claim the process is costly, unreliable and may ultimately impact the local economies that heavily depend on the gun industry, including Ilion, N.Y., where Remington Arms maintains a factory, and Hartford, Conn., where Colt’s manufacturing is headquartered.

“Mandatory microstamping would have an immediate impact of a loss of 50 jobs,” New York State Sen. James Seward, a Republican whose district includes Ilion, said, adding that Remington employs 1,100 workers in the town. “You’re talking about a company that has options in other states. Why should they be in a state that’s hostile to legal gun manufacturing? There could be serious negative economic impact with the passage of microstamping and other gun-control laws.”

I grew up within bicycling distance of the Remington Arms plant, and nearly every one of our neighbors either had a family member who worked there or knew people who did. It was the central industry of the area, and while diminished in size over the years, is still a primary force in providing jobs. They also have a long, proud tradition of producing some of the finest hunting hardware in the nation for well over a century.

This microstamping, while perhaps well intentioned from a law enforcement perspective, is a business disaster in the making for little or no return on the investment. Bob Owens explains.

For starters: microstamping fails to work on any firearm that already exists, something in the neighborhood of more than 300 million firearms. As firearms last indefinitely, it would be decades before they became a significant number of total firearms — even if the technology was foolproof.

But microstamping is not foolproof. Let’s look at the ways microstamping fails, beyond the numbers:

  • Microstamping does not work if shell casings aren’t automatically ejected from the crime gun. Revolvers, derringers, double-barrel shotguns, pump shotguns and rifles, and semi-automatic firearms that can be equipped with inexpensive brass catchers (common among some shooters) would leave no cartridges at the scene of a shooting.
  • Microstamping does not work because firing pins are inexpensive and easy to replace. The firing pin for most weapons are easily replaced by someone with a minimum of ability to read and follow the basic cleaning directions for his firearm. The expense of millions of dollars in retooling is thwarted by the purchase of a $12 part.
  • Microstamping does not work because the stamping is easily defaced. It would take a matter of a half-dozen passes of a standard diamond file, and less than a minute, to eradicate the microstamping.
  • Microstamping is incredibly fragile. The stamping would wear out over time through simple use of the firearm, or be thwarted by the normal powder residue that builds up on small parts.
  • Microstamping could easily be spoofed and waste police time — or worse, send the wrong people to jail. Most shooters do not reload their own ammunition, and leave their shell casings at the range. All it would take to turn microstamping to a criminal’s advantage would be for a criminal or one of his associates to pick up brass from a firing range in the same caliber as the weapon he carries. After he uses a microstamping-free weapon in a crime, he would merely drop the brass he recovered from Joe Citizen at the range at the crime scene. Joe will wake up with a SWAT team crashing through his door at 5:00 a.m., and if he’s lucky, innocent Joe won’t be gunned down along with his family pets.

Bob has plenty more at the link and a wealth of experience with guns and second amendment issues to back it up. Rules like these, forced through by excitable gun opponents without considering the law of unintended consequences, can and will result in more factories closing down and moving to more business friendly climes. While some may look at this as the natural evolution of business in the free market, it still affects many, many families and entire communities. On top of that, Remington isn’t just another manufacturer of another widget. They are an icon of American history and part of the fabric of New York dating back to the 1800s. Gun violence is of concern to many people without question, but this isn’t an answer to anything.


Related Posts:

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 2 3

Romney likes regulations. Regulations work. I wonder what his true feelings on this would be.
The only thing he has going for him is that he is not Obama.
That and the statement that it is not moral to pass on the national debt to future generations.

astonerii on October 6, 2012 at 5:37 PM

Regulatory strangulation of legitimate business for the sole purpose of pandering to ill informed ‘activists’ and, possibly, an attempt, disguised as ‘unintended consequences’, to drive gun manufacturing out of a blue state.

thatsafactjack on October 6, 2012 at 5:39 PM

I agree that the government should pay for it’s mandates, but I don’t find Bob’s reasons all that persuasive about the effectiveness of micro stamping. You have to start somewhere and most criminals are dumb.

ninjapirate on October 6, 2012 at 5:39 PM

astonerii on October 6, 2012 at 5:37 PM

..and the fact that he does not want to KILL jobs, stoner.

The War Planner on October 6, 2012 at 5:39 PM

Bought some ammo today. Thought I’d better get more now while you still can.

If Øbama wins, I buy another firearm. Probably a good investment, if nothing else.

petefrt on October 6, 2012 at 5:40 PM

You have to start somewhere and most criminals are dumb.

That being said, if the real agenda is to force every previous gun owner into getting their gun microstamped then it needs to be opposed.

ninjapirate on October 6, 2012 at 5:42 PM

Liberals are buying these.

bloggless on October 6, 2012 at 5:42 PM

It doesn’t matter if it’s a dumba$$ idea, Jazz.

Their intentions are good.

//

BacaDog on October 6, 2012 at 5:44 PM

But guns aren’t supposed to be registered, right? Right?

claudius on October 6, 2012 at 5:44 PM

Refuse! Move to the south and let the government explain the lost jobs.

Don L on October 6, 2012 at 5:46 PM

The lobbyists promulgating this get-rich scheme for the technology patentholders should be run down, tarred and feathered and hanged from the nearest gas station.
The Democrats advancing the legislation should be driven from office.

Even the CA marxist legislature balked and put a ‘when practicable’ clause in the legislation, basically passing it with an implementation deadline of never.

rayra on October 6, 2012 at 5:49 PM

Ten bucks says the criminal element is already selling replacement firing pins with Snoop Dogs or some heroes picture microstamped on them.

Designer firing pins will replace sneakers in the inner cities of America….

Don L on October 6, 2012 at 5:49 PM

..and the fact that he does not want to KILL jobs, stoner.

The War Planner on October 6, 2012 at 5:39 PM

That is part of the NOT OBAMA aspect. The reasoning behind what he does. Obama does it because he hates America as it is. Romney does it because he loves America and wants to make it better. Look, I will be putting a mark next to the guy’s name. But I sure as hell am not sold on him not having dramatic unintended consequences that destroys conservative values along the way.

astonerii on October 6, 2012 at 5:50 PM

Heck you don’t even have to go the links to find out how stupid this is to even try:

But microstamping is not foolproof. Let’s look at the ways microstamping fails, beyond the numbers:

Not even beyond the numbers, just a little thinking, and tools that should be in everyone’s toolbox.

But man, what a way to play with the authorities.

cozmo on October 6, 2012 at 5:52 PM

Most people who use a firearm in the commission of a crime aren’t going to use a registered weapon, and certainly not a weapon registered in their own name.

Guns are stolen during the commission of other crimes every day. These weapons are traded freely in the black market among the criminal element. Even if the weapon was used in the commission of a crime, and the shell casings were allowed to remain where they fell, the weapon would likely not be used by the person to whom it had been registered.

Further, a firing pin is not a complex element to manufacture and/or replace. Any competent gunsmith can easily do it and what one man knows, another can learn. What makes these individuals pushing for microstamping firing pins believe that the criminal element will not simply remove and replace microstamped firing pins for blank ones, even if they have to make them?

thatsafactjack on October 6, 2012 at 5:52 PM

Maybe these companies need to leave these Marxist Police States (NY, MA, IL) and go to places like Idaho where this will simply never happen.

Spartacus on October 6, 2012 at 5:53 PM

1) And a brass catcher would immediately defeat this million dollar “game changer”.

2) $10 replacement firing pins would become $200 FFL parts.

Obama 2012!!/!

rogerb on October 6, 2012 at 5:54 PM

Just another law, by liberal idiots who know NOTHING about firearms.

Maybe they should check with Maryland. They’ve had ‘ballistic fingerprinting’ for about 10 years now.

Number of ‘crimes solved’? NONE.

Cost? MILLIONS wasted. The State Police have pleaded with the idiots in the capitol to kill the law so that scare LE dollars can be better spent elsewhere.

Oh! One “crime” was solved. In a TV show.

GarandFan on October 6, 2012 at 5:58 PM

That being said, if the real agenda is to force every previous gun owner into getting their gun microstamped then it needs to be opposed.

ninjapirate on October 6, 2012 at 5:42 PM

You know that’s on the agenda. It’s mainly a back door, one of many, for gun control.

Needless to say, when unstamped firing pins are outlawed, only outlaws will have them.

petefrt on October 6, 2012 at 6:00 PM

The government couldn’t be bothered to track the guns the provide to gangsters in “sting” operations, but they want every American citizen to pay for this?

logis on October 6, 2012 at 6:00 PM

GarandFan on October 6, 2012 at 5:58 PM

They use the same metrics as Obama does to determine effectiveness.
Economy:
Jobs saved.
TSA:
Terror Plots never tried
Gun fingerprinting:
Homicides deterred!

astonerii on October 6, 2012 at 6:01 PM

without considering the law of unintended consequences

If you think this is unintended you are delusional. Pin stamping is a multi-faceted attack on law abiding gun ownership, these attacks are intended to cause complete loss of ownership rights.

These attacks are very well thought out and every consequence is completely intended. The crafters of such laws welcome scenarios such as criminals taking brass casings from shooting ranges.

When have you ever seen a progressive or communist concerned about the consequences of their laws?

Rode Werk on October 6, 2012 at 6:01 PM

…another regulation.

KOOLAID2 on October 6, 2012 at 6:03 PM

Just buy the gun and file the tip of the firing pin off. Better yet, if you are planning some near-future purchases, go buy the plain firing pin replacements RIGHT NOW. Lots of titanium aftermarket firing pins available as well.

1911 firing pin $7 at Brownells
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=1323/Product/1911-AUTO-FIRING-PIN

RUger .380 LCP firing pin $9
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=44839/Product/FIRING-PIN

S&W M&P Striker $31
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=23263/Product/STRIKER-ASSEMBLY

rayra on October 6, 2012 at 6:04 PM

Oh, I know… I’ll bet this is progessive job creation!

Sure… the criminal element has a need for weapons with either blank firing pins, or altered firing pins. In either case, a ‘go to guy’ is need in criminal circles across the nation who can be relied upon to do a skillful and efficient job in altering or replacing microstamped firing pins.

Viola! A cottage industry springs up in every metropolitan area across the nation of black market ‘gunsmiths’ who will alter weapons for criminal use.

Brilliant move on the part of those craft progressives, huh?/

thatsafactjack on October 6, 2012 at 6:08 PM

New York is a mess of a state. I’m amazed that businesses haven’t flown the coop faster than they already have.

Bitter Clinger on October 6, 2012 at 6:10 PM

If Øbama wins, I buy another firearm. Probably a good investment, if nothing else.

petefrt on October 6, 2012 at 5:40 PM

I’m getting one either way. I figured it’s either celebration or preperation. :)

Dirt McGirt on October 6, 2012 at 6:10 PM

Why haven’t all gun manufacturers moved to red states already?

jjrakman on October 6, 2012 at 6:13 PM

Maybe I’m missing something here, but I don’t see how this system would be feasable.

The only time that a firing pin would leave an imprint that could be traceable on the casing is if it were a rimfire cartridge, like a 22 caliber round. Those aren’t normally reloaded, just returned (if collected) for scrap and melted down and reused.

Most ammunition is centerfire, which uses a primer in the middle of the cartridge’s base. The firing pin strikes that, and the resultant fire ignites the powder. Certainly the firing pin would leave a microprint on the primer, but if the shooter recovers that for reloading, the primer is punched out and discarded anyway and a new one put in. As was said, policing your brass either by hand or with a brass catcher solves the problem until you can punch out the primers.

Remington, please consider moving up to Maine. We have abundant power available, plenty of skilled workers, a governor and legislature that WANTS you here, and we need the work.

TKindred on October 6, 2012 at 6:14 PM

So, criminals are smart enough to file serial numbers of, but too dumb to sanitize a firing pin?

Riiight!

OldEnglish on October 6, 2012 at 6:16 PM

Keeping your brass is one of the reasons every American should own at least one wheel gun. Simplicity and reliability are the others.

I could be wrong but it would be very easy to take the few thous of the stampings off and still have a working pin.

jukin3 on October 6, 2012 at 6:16 PM

Democrats:

Successfully putting more firearms into the hands of law-abiding citizens due to their anti-second-ammendment policies for decades.

Thank you Obumbles for scaring American Patriots into evening the odds.

Tim_CA on October 6, 2012 at 6:16 PM

OldEnglish on October 6, 2012 at 6:16 PM

off, moron!

OldEnglish on October 6, 2012 at 6:17 PM

off, moron!

OldEnglish on October 6, 2012 at 6:17 PM

Most of us read both English and typo you know.

astonerii on October 6, 2012 at 6:17 PM

These legislators know the etching won’t change a thing. They also know it’s cheaper for the gun manufacturers to buy the equipment to comply with the latest law idiocy than move to another state.

What it’s about is to make firearms so expensive that few can buy them, especially in an economy like this. And if such a company does go out of business, these liberals will think they have done a public service.

Liam on October 6, 2012 at 6:19 PM

Not even beyond the numbers, just a little thinking, and tools that should be in everyone’s toolbox.

But man, what a way to play with the authorities.

cozmo on October 6, 2012 at 5:52 PM

Yeah, like a Dremel with the standard tips that come with it. Who doesn’t have a Dremel?

slickwillie2001 on October 6, 2012 at 6:20 PM

Romney likes regulations. Regulations work. I wonder what his true feelings on this would be.
The only thing he has going for him is that he is not Obama.
That and the statement that it is not moral to pass on the national debt to future generations.

astonerii on October 6, 2012 at 5:37 PM

There are regulations, like speeding laws, and there are regulations, like micro stamping firing pins.

Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.

BTW, astonerii, I signed up for Social Security yesterday. I want you gen-whatevs to stay healthy and keep working.

davidk on October 6, 2012 at 6:20 PM

one way or another…..

DOTUS

PappyD61 on October 6, 2012 at 6:20 PM

Who doesn’t have a Dremel?

slickwillie2001 on October 6, 2012 at 6:20 PM

Um, yeah, sure, I got one in here somewhere; let me dig around a little bit.

davidk on October 6, 2012 at 6:21 PM

Liam on October 6, 2012 at 6:19 PM

There are easier ways to do that.

Colt stopped making the .380 government model. S&W stopped making the model 19. And Colt stopped marketing the AR to civilians.

Because of liability over lawsuits.

cozmo on October 6, 2012 at 6:22 PM

Romney likes regulations. Regulations work. I wonder what his true feelings on this would be.
The only thing he has going for him is that he is not Obama.
That and the statement that it is not moral to pass on the national debt to future generations.

astonerii on October 6, 2012 at 5:37 PM

Romney doesn’t LIKE regulations. He said they are ESSENTIAL to the Free Market. (I have the debate recorded.) And, gave an example of what you can’t be allowed to do……”Open up a bank in your garage and start giving out loans….” I agree with that. Without regs, we all would be in a world of hurt….I used to work for a bank. Without regs, people would have their monies stolen by dishonest bankers….it happens, it happened.

Not sure if I’m the only one to catch this as I haven’t read through this entire thread. Just wanted to point out the slight difference you created in what he actually said.

avagreen on October 6, 2012 at 6:22 PM

ammo prices are high and some hard to find. thats where they get you.

renalin on October 6, 2012 at 6:24 PM

Who doesn’t have a Dremel?

slickwillie2001 on October 6, 2012 at 6:20 PM

Dremels are like firearms…you can’t have just one.

Too long to change bits, even with a quick-chuck, when you are in the middle of a project.

cozmo on October 6, 2012 at 6:24 PM

Most of us read both English and typo you know.

astonerii on October 6, 2012 at 6:17 PM

As do I, but tearing a strip off myself, when required, helps to keep my handful of remaining neurons firing. :)

OldEnglish on October 6, 2012 at 6:25 PM

Like anybody who would commit a serious crime wouldn’t get a replacement firing pin that says
“Barack Obama, 1600 Pennsylvania Ave, DC”

J_Crater on October 6, 2012 at 6:26 PM

The author attempted to use logic to show the obvious futility of the process. Obviously a gun owner would simply buy another brand. However the real point of the legislation is in fact to put the manufacturers out of business. That has been the perceived motives by anti-gun groups for years and is the talk in the legislative hallways. The crime solution excuse is merely that. This follows similarly bizarre scheme regarding ammunition, hunting licenses, target ranges, etc.

pat on October 6, 2012 at 6:27 PM

The manufacturer and/or dealer should simply provide a free replacement firing pin to their customers solving the problem.

JIMV on October 6, 2012 at 6:27 PM

I did a mini-study on guns and crime that applies liberal logic to the human element.

Based on the 2005 Uniform Crime Report, showing the race of the offender (rape, agg.assault, robbery, Murder only) as part of the total numbers of violent gun crimes in that year, and estimate of the # of guns in the US, we do not need gun control, but something more insidious:

1,390,700 Total V.C.

300,000,000 Total US Guns
477,040 V.C. with guns

39,200,000 Total Blacks
539,235 V.C. with Blacks

0.16% of all guns in the USA involved in VC in 2005(one per crime) 3.1% of all black men,women and children involved in VC 2005 (one per crime)

Do you want to pretend that gun control “logic” is logic? Then apply it to the people using them.

Spartacus on October 6, 2012 at 6:28 PM

But I sure as hell am not sold on him not having dramatic unintended consequences that destroys conservative values along the way.

astonerii on October 6, 2012 at 5:50 PM

Agreed.

davidk on October 6, 2012 at 6:28 PM

But what about the shoulder thing that goes up? Isn’t that important too?

woodbutcher on October 6, 2012 at 6:29 PM

Our Gov. here in this state which allows concealed weapons has invited all gun manufacture in the US to movie to this state for a friendly environment and a skilled and hard working work force. So far Remington and Colt have said they will condenser the offer for any future moves.

logman1 on October 6, 2012 at 6:30 PM

They, (Remington Arms) can move to Texas, we would be glad to have them. And, the micro stamping issue can be solved by replacing the firing pin.

I just picked up a Beretta PX4 Storm (full frame) in .40 S&W. Very sweet shooting pistol. Been buying ammo very regularly, and reloading supplies with special consideration towards primers…even types I don’t actually use. They will be great trade goods. That and the 2,000 rolls of toilet paper I stockpiled. :-)

TBC

tbarleycorn on October 6, 2012 at 6:33 PM

S&W makes the fine 586 in the same calibers and incorporating features to prevent a dropped gun from firing. It is superior and of comparable price. The Colt .380 was simply over priced for the market. Other manufacturers made smaller and/or better guns for far less money as women buyers came into the market.
http://www.hoffgun.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/RugerLCPRasp.jpg

pat on October 6, 2012 at 6:36 PM

God liberals are the dumbest people alive and it’s sad that they hold such positions of power because its costs us a ton of money for their ineffectual pipe dreams. Do they eveb think this stuff through? EVER?! As the article said, replacing the firing pin is easy and cheap. I replaced all my stock firing pins in my 1911′s with Wilson Combat ones for less than $15.

The left are complete MORONS!

jawkneemusic on October 6, 2012 at 6:37 PM

They will be great trade goods. That and the 2,000 rolls of toilet paper I stockpiled. :-)

TBC

tbarleycorn on October 6, 2012 at 6:33 PM

http://www.shtfplan.com/emergency-preparedness/16-shtf-barter-items-to-stockpile_03152012

davidk on October 6, 2012 at 6:39 PM

on October 6, 2012 by Jazz Shaw – I grew up within bicycling distance of the Remington Arms plant,

…So did I. I lived very close and went to high school in Ilion, in part. Small world! I moved to Texas, to escape the highly oppressive gun law, tax law and terrible job market back in 2001.

Remington Arms would be wise to simply move out of NY state, if they are being forced to do something this stupid. Gee, remove the firing pin and change it to another one then, theres no more microstamping. Moronic NY State legislators. Thats a big reason I moved out, and apparently they are STILL at work.

TO: NY-STATE-RESIDENTS: You folks deserve what you are getting because you keep re-electing them.

TX-96 on October 6, 2012 at 6:40 PM

Most of us read both English and typo you know.

astonerii on October 6, 2012 at 6:17 PM

Yep, I can read typo… and I can write typo. I can do both.

petefrt on October 6, 2012 at 6:41 PM

What a waist, I have four or five pins for my AR, and it only takes seconds to change……..

angrymike on October 6, 2012 at 6:43 PM

pat on October 6, 2012 at 6:36 PM

Shot both the S&W’s in .357. The model 19 was better, by far.

The Colt .380 Government model (not the Mustang) was the first good pocket gun. And since it was a shrunk down 1911, there was no question as to its reliability and performance. I worked just like it was supposed to when I needed it.

It was in line with similar pistols when available. A used one now is more expensive than the most expensive Colt .380 clone, the Sig Sauer P238. I know this because I am looking for a replacement for both. Though not so much for the Model 19 since I found a nice Python.

cozmo on October 6, 2012 at 6:43 PM

Remington should do what other NYers have done, flip themoff as they leave NY. NY is a liberal he!!hole, all they want to do is make sure everybody is miserable, I left NY after living there my whole life, moved to a state that considers their citizens adults. Got my CCW license after a background check and getting fingerprinted. Took 2 weeks, instead of 6 months in NY.Millions are leaving NY and CA. Hey Libs enjoy your moronic self made liberal ghetto, you wanted it, you voted for it, now pay for it.

stormridercx4 on October 6, 2012 at 6:44 PM

Another odd thing is Remington primarily makes long guns. The last Remington brand handgun was a single shot bolt action pistol in 1968. What percentage of crimes is committed by long guns? Virtually none. But long guns are the weapon of choice in protecting homes and businesses.

pat on October 6, 2012 at 6:45 PM

Rules like these, forced through by excitable gun opponents without considering the law of unintended consequences, can and will result in more factories closing down and moving to more business friendly climes.

i have no idea why you would use the word unintended. The gun control people are not excitable…they are determined.

obviously, the more gun makers are shut down, the better. The more gun users are afraid of being entrapped by means of this ID…the better.

they want gun users to be afraid to use their guns, they hate guns…and if a few eggs have to be broken along the way…that’s fine with them

r keller on October 6, 2012 at 6:45 PM

Why haven’t all gun manufacturers moved to red states already?
jjrakman on October 6, 2012 at 6:13 PM

No kidding. S&W still has their plants in Springfield, MA and Houlton, MN.

jawkneemusic on October 6, 2012 at 6:45 PM

This of course, is as much an attack on business as on the 2nd Amendment! The left wing lawmakers are bound & determined to put more people on the government dole & if they can get rid of a Gun Mfr. to boot, well, that’s just an added bonus! Remember, to the left, Ideology trumps everything and anyone who doesn’t agree with them, gets every hateful, despicable, racist and/or bigoted emotion, in a Liberals heart, projected onto them!
Final Update for those following:How to take on the Obama Enemy media: http://paratisiusa.blogspot.com/2012/09/an-open-letter-to-those-who-should-know.html?spref=tw

God Bless America!

paratisi on October 6, 2012 at 6:45 PM

That is part of the NOT OBAMA aspect. The reasoning behind what he does. Obama does it because he hates America as it is. Romney does it because he loves America and wants to make it better. Look, I will be putting a mark next to the guy’s name. But I sure as hell am not sold on him not having dramatic unintended consequences that destroys conservative values along the way.

astonerii on October 6, 2012 at 5:50 PM

..nor am I. But for the moment, we need to cut the tumor out or the patient will die. You and I went over this before and Schadenfreude and I invite you to join us at the barricades should Romney win. If Romney loses, he and I will be taking all of our arms and ammo and survival equipment into the hills and joining some doughty guerrilla band.

You’re welcome to come along; I have a spare M-1.

:-D

The War Planner on October 6, 2012 at 6:48 PM

cozmo on October 6, 2012 at 6:43 PM
My .380 ACP is Beretta. You need a damn pulley to open the chamber for the first round. Blow back.

pat on October 6, 2012 at 6:49 PM

I just got finished texting my BinL who’s been laid up in the hospital for 8 weeks now. He was a CSI for the IL State Police.

He says you can match a shell casing to a gun with “a comparison mocroscopewith sufficient power.”

He further said microetching is unnecessary: “The easy answer would be to require a fired cartridge case on file of every weapon. That information can be put in a database … .”

Just like fingerprints and DNA.

davidk on October 6, 2012 at 6:49 PM

However the real point of the legislation is in fact to put the manufacturers out of business. That has been the perceived motives by anti-gun groups for years and is the talk in the legislative hallways. The crime solution excuse is merely that. This follows similarly bizarre scheme regarding ammunition, hunting licenses, target ranges, etc.

pat on October 6, 2012 at 6:27 PM

This. For the left, the crime solution excuse is merely camouflage. The underlying purpose is to put gun manufacturers out of business.

petefrt on October 6, 2012 at 6:50 PM

I just got finished texting my BinL who’s been laid up in the hospital for 8 weeks now. He was a CSI for the IL State Police.

He further said microetching is unnecessary: “The easy answer would be to require a fired cartridge case on file of every weapon. That information can be put in a database … .”

davidk on October 6, 2012 at 6:49 PM

…and then when you sell it, the data is useless.

TX-96 on October 6, 2012 at 6:52 PM

Starline, Norma, and Lapua make the best brass.
Federal makes my favorite primers.
Corbin makes bullet swaging equipment.
Powder companies are merging or disappearing, but many are still out there.
RCBS, Forstner, Sinclair International, and Brownell’s are ‘must-know’ companies

Any firing pin can be made on any lathe, and heat treated with a blow torch and a coffee can full of oil.

Always remember-
Do whatever it takes to be tactics and weapons proficient.
Kill them all.
Police your brass.

“Micro-stamping”. HAH ! Crap like that cracks me up.

M240H on October 6, 2012 at 6:54 PM

This microstamping, while perhaps well intentioned from a law enforcement perspective, is a business disaster in the making for little or no return on the investment.

They are not well intentioned.

How does this work exactly?

Do European and Chinese gunmakers get barred if they are not microstamped? If not then they will be the weapon of choice for criminals, and if so the guns being allowed to citizens drops considerably with import bans and domestic factory closings.

How does this actually help the police if there are hundreds of millions of firearms already in circulation not microstamped? Do gun owners then have to get their weapons microstamped?

This sounds like registration by stealth and an attempt to drive up the cost and hassle of owning firearms.

sharrukin on October 6, 2012 at 6:55 PM

Never cared much for Remmington arms. I’m a 1911 enthusiast. Anyone know if their 1911′s can compete with Springfield, S&W or Wilson Combat’s?

jawkneemusic on October 6, 2012 at 6:55 PM

Firing pins will now have to be coordinated with the gun-frames through the assembly process and matching serial numbers will need to be confirmed visually post-assembly I’d assume.

Once the fire-arm changes hands a few times via private sales, the data becomes obsolete….and that’s assuming that the firing pin hasn’t already been replaced or modified.

And you’d be crazy to leave spent casings ANYWHERE…too easy to collect and throw down as needed by the bad guys.

stupid, stupid, stupid.

Everyone loses (except the micro-engravers I guess).

Tim_CA on October 6, 2012 at 6:56 PM

pat on October 6, 2012 at 6:45 PM

It would hurt them for their 870 I imagine.

pat on October 6, 2012 at 6:49 PM

Right now I’m goin’ back and forth between the Walther PK380 and the S&W BG380. Though the little Ruger keeps tryin’ to sneak in.

cozmo on October 6, 2012 at 6:56 PM

No kidding. S&W still has their plants in Springfield, MA and Houlton, MN.

jawkneemusic on October 6, 2012 at 6:45 PM

..piece of historical trivia for you. Back in the late 40s, the Garand was manufactured for the military by three companies; The Springfield Armory, Winchester, and Harrington & Richardson and they were all located in Eastern Massachusetts and Connecticut. When the DoD realized that well-placed a Commie atom bomb could take out 100% of the battle-rifle manufacturing capability of this country, they let a contract out to International Harvester in Indiana. So that accounts for the four types of the collectable M-1s in existence today.

Time line’s not 100% correct, but the facts are.

The War Planner on October 6, 2012 at 6:56 PM

He also said that would only ID the weapon and not the shooter.

davidk on October 6, 2012 at 6:58 PM

The War Planner on October 6, 2012 at 6:56 PM

Interesting. Thanks for that! :)

jawkneemusic on October 6, 2012 at 6:59 PM

He further said microetching is unnecessary: “The easy answer would be to require a fired cartridge case on file of every weapon. That information can be put in a database … .”

davidk on October 6, 2012 at 6:49 PM

That’s my understanding also. But it doesn’t work for libs, ’cause it doesn’t hurt gun manufacturers.

petefrt on October 6, 2012 at 6:59 PM

The last Remington brand handgun was a single shot bolt action pistol in 1968.

pat on October 6, 2012 at 6:45 PM

Not True! They make a very nice 1911.
http://www.1911r1.com/

JimK on October 6, 2012 at 7:00 PM

…and then when you sell it, the data is useless.

TX-96 on October 6, 2012 at 6:52 PM

He also said that would only ID the weapon and not the shooter.

davidk on October 6, 2012 at 6:58 PM

davidk on October 6, 2012 at 7:00 PM

Another odd thing is Remington primarily makes long guns. The last Remington brand handgun was a single shot bolt action pistol in 1968. What percentage of crimes is committed by long guns? Virtually none. But long guns are the weapon of choice in protecting homes and businesses.

pat on October 6, 2012 at 6:45 PM

Remington R1 1911 in .45 ACP.

Yoop on October 6, 2012 at 7:01 PM

He also recognized the ease with which the original firing pin could be replaced and the original tossed in the river.

davidk on October 6, 2012 at 7:02 PM

Only a (short) matter of time before someone would just market a primer made of a material that couldn’t be stamped.

db on October 6, 2012 at 7:04 PM

Look, I will be putting a mark next to the guy’s name. But I sure as hell am not sold on him not having dramatic unintended consequences that destroys conservative values along the way.

astonerii on October 6, 2012 at 5:50 PM

Thank you. I believe if elected, Romney will do as well as anyone could to restore America to prosperity. I don’t think anyone would be able to enact the level of governmental austerity you desire, because there are too many people who have half-baked left wing ideas and live in left wing states which elect left wing representatives. Some compromise will be necessary. At least if Romney wins, the oval office will be trying to reign in spending, which is far from the current case.

I truly believe Romney has the best chance of anyone that ran this cycle of getting the US to a balanced budget. Here’s hoping he gets a chance.

talkingpoints on October 6, 2012 at 7:05 PM

Microstamping of new guns will increase the value of existing guns by 5% 10% 20% ? I don’t know.

meci on October 6, 2012 at 7:05 PM

They should just move. Seriously, it sucks for those who work there now but this is the predictable result of being an American in The People’s Republic Of New Yorkistan.

jawkneemusic on October 6, 2012 at 7:06 PM

cozmo on October 6, 2012 at 6:56 PM
I have a S&W 19. 44 Special.
JimK on October 6, 2012 at 7:00 PM

I should have clarified in New York. As far as I know. They actually make all kinds of pistols under their many trade names.

pat on October 6, 2012 at 7:06 PM

Right now I’m goin’ back and forth between the Walther PK380 and the S&W BG380.

cozmo on October 6, 2012 at 6:56 PM

nice handgun….I’ve been drooling over the Walther P99 Compact Pistol – 9mm.

Think that’ll be my next buy.

Tim_CA on October 6, 2012 at 7:07 PM

. . . . . a firing pin is not a complex element to manufacture and/or replace. Any competent gunsmith can easily do it and what one man knows, another can learn. What makes these individuals pushing for microstamping firing pins believe that the criminal element will not simply remove and replace microstamped firing pins for blank ones, even if they have to make them?

thatsafactjack
on October 6, 2012 at 5:52 PM

.

Heck you don’t even have to go the links to find out how stupid this is to even try:

But microstamping is not foolproof. Let’s look at the ways microstamping fails, beyond the numbers . . . . .

Jazz Shaw

Not even beyond the numbers, just a little thinking, and tools that should be in everyone’s toolbox.

cozmo on October 6, 2012 at 5:52 PM

.
My thoughts exactly, after starting to read this post.
I’ve done enough “self-gunsmithing” to know how easy this is to eradicate such imprints.
A woman’s fingernail file could do the trick.

listens2glenn on October 6, 2012 at 7:07 PM

Microstamping of new guns will increase the value of existing guns by 5% 10% 20% ? I don’t know.
meci on October 6, 2012 at 7:05 PM

Not likely since the firing pin is easily replaced.

jawkneemusic on October 6, 2012 at 7:08 PM

Anyone care to guess how long after this law goes into force that some murderer uses the “someone else must have dropped my brass on the scene” to inject reasonable doubt into a case and walks scot-free? The smart ones who can use a gun legally (no prior felonies or other prohibitory situation) will set up the alibi in advance by firing at a practice range on repeated occasions, then using a different weapon of the same type for the murder. The tactic will be on Page One for attorneys who handle this kind of cases.

M. Scott Eiland on October 6, 2012 at 7:09 PM

You’re welcome to come along; I have a spare M-1.

:-D

The War Planner on October 6, 2012 at 6:48 PM

Thanks.
After reviewing the purchases Obama’s Department of homeland Security made over the last few years, particularly more recent purchases, it became obvious a terrible romney is superior to Obama. By more than just a little.

astonerii on October 6, 2012 at 7:10 PM

Also firing eventually wear out. Are they going to force all firing pin manufactures to laser etch their pins too? How could they possibly do that when not all firing pin makers are in NY.

jawkneemusic on October 6, 2012 at 7:11 PM

I have a S&W 19. 44 Special.

pat on October 6, 2012 at 7:06 PM

Old school, easier to remember how everything works when time is critical.

.I’ve been drooling over the Walther P99 Compact Pistol – 9mm.

Tim_CA on October 6, 2012 at 7:07 PM

I have plenty of non-pocket pistols

I would never need anything bigger than a .380.

Guns are bad and I don’t want them.

cozmo on October 6, 2012 at 7:12 PM

My thoughts exactly, after starting to read this post.
I’ve done enough “self-gunsmithing” to know how easy this is to eradicate such imprints.
A woman’s fingernail file could do the trick.

listens2glenn on October 6, 2012 at 7:07 PM

Now that’s just plain silly because the gummint will just outlaw the practice and that, for sure, will stop criminals from scraping the stamping off their firing pins!

..oh, wait.

The War Planner on October 6, 2012 at 7:13 PM

Seriously? The same guberment that couldn’t be bothered to track those fast and furious guns wants to track only the newly sold guns? Buy used then or replace the pins, it takes about three minutes.

ConcealedKerry on October 6, 2012 at 7:14 PM

I would never need anything bigger than a .380.

Guns are bad and I don’t want them.

cozmo on October 6, 2012 at 7:12 PM

..what’s the old line? Never go to a gunfight with anything whose caliber does not start with a 4!

The War Planner on October 6, 2012 at 7:14 PM

. . . . . Everyone loses (except the micro-engravers I guess).

Tim_CA on October 6, 2012 at 6:56 PM

.
Or these people, Tim’.

listens2glenn on October 6, 2012 at 7:15 PM

Thank you. I believe if elected, Romney will do as well as anyone could to restore America to prosperity. I don’t think anyone would be able to enact the level of governmental austerity you desire, because there are too many people who have half-baked left wing ideas and live in left wing states which elect left wing representatives. Some compromise will be necessary. At least if Romney wins, the oval office will be trying to reign in spending, which is far from the current case.

I truly believe Romney has the best chance of anyone that ran this cycle of getting the US to a balanced budget. Here’s hoping he gets a chance.

talkingpoints on October 6, 2012 at 7:05 PM

For this election I would be happy with one reasonable one. Balanced Budget Amendment. I can even live without the cap on spending amendment.

These gun regulations blow. They are meant to actually make legally buying and owning a gun far more dangerous to law abiding citizens. Like they say, some murderer dropping brass from what you left at the firing range would put you at the end of a swat team home invasion. If your lucky to live through that, who knows how many EPA regulations your home has going on after they look through your kitchen sink. OMG amonia near your cascade! OMG, you have contraband cascade with the real cleaning agents still in it!

astonerii on October 6, 2012 at 7:15 PM

Comment pages: 1 2 3