Netanyahu at the UN: “Red lines don’t lead to war; red lines prevent war”

posted at 4:01 pm on September 27, 2012 by Erika Johnsen

Speaking in front of the United Nations in New York on Thursday afternoon, Israeli Prime Minister eschewed a lot of the normal platitudinous dithering that goes on in that august body and instead struck a more “peace through strength”-tone in laying out the Iranian nuclear situation. He got quite specific in defining the dangers that Iran’s activities present to the world at large, even using an idiot-proof chart and everything:

“The red line must be drawn on Iran’s nuclear enrichment program,” Netanyahu said. “I believe that faced with a clear red line, Iran will back down.” …

“Throughout our history the Jewish people have overcome all the tyrants who sought our destruction,” he said. “The Jewish people have come home. We will never be uprooted again.” …

“Make no mistake: a nuclear-armed Iran is not a challenge that can be contained,” Obama said. “It would threaten the elimination of Israel, the security of Gulf nations, and the stability of the global economy. It risks triggering a nuclear-arms race in the region, and the unraveling of the non-proliferation treaty. That’s why a coalition of countries is holding the Iranian government accountable. And that’s why the United States will do what we must to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon.”

The Obama administration has steadily resisted publicly announcing a precise “red line” on Iran’s nuke program, insisting that they’ve been standing tough with diplomacy and sanctions, but Netanyahu was plenty frank in relaying that he doesn’t think that’s quite good enough. It’s too bad President Obama didn’t have any time to discuss all this “noise” with Netanyahu while he’s in the country this week — but I’m sure he’ll be looking forward to the president’s phone call on Friday.


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For example, we acquired the Louisiana territory through trade, not force.

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 4:49 PM

Care to comment on the Battle of San Jacinto lightweight?

DanMan on September 27, 2012 at 5:03 PM

Wow, I never knew Charles Rangel and Tim Geithner were libertarians. You learn something new everyday.

Bitter Clinger on September 27, 2012 at 5:02 PM

Actually they are socialists.

sharrukin on September 27, 2012 at 5:03 PM

There are no caveats.

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 4:58 PM

I doubt there would be for someone so willfully and childishly ignorant.

ShadowsPawn on September 27, 2012 at 5:03 PM

Do you think it was wrong for the French to help fight for our Independence?

OTTO on September 27, 2012 at 4:53 PM

That was for the French citizens to decide. I wasn’t a French citizen, so I couldn’t care less. That was between France and England.

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 5:03 PM

That was for the French citizens to decide. I wasn’t a French citizen, so I couldn’t care less. That was between France and England.

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 5:03 PM

So wait, if the citizens decide its okay to intervene, then it’s okay? Hmmm….

ShadowsPawn on September 27, 2012 at 5:05 PM

And who are YOU to judge morality?

Really–who the frack do you think you are?

Liam on September 27, 2012 at 4:36 PM

.
What a strange question.

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 4:58 PM

.
Aimed at you ? . . . The hell it is.

listens2glenn on September 27, 2012 at 5:05 PM

Actually they are socialists.

sharrukin on September 27, 2012 at 5:03 PM

True. I just thought it was funny how you described libertarians.

Bitter Clinger on September 27, 2012 at 5:05 PM

Ask the French that in 1942.

itsspideyman on September 27, 2012 at 4:54 PM

Why? It was American citizens who had their wealth seized and who were forcibly conscripted into service to die for another country.

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 5:05 PM

No. Iraq invaded Kuwait and we intervened militarily. Kuwait, as you may not know, is not part of the United States.

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 4:39 PM

Yes ‘we’ did…

“To date, there are 54 countries that have joined the Coalition of the Willing…”

Seven Percent Solution on September 27, 2012 at 5:06 PM

And who are YOU to judge morality?

Really–who the frack do you think you are?

Liam on September 27, 2012 at 4:36 PM

Ron Paul?????

D-fusit on September 27, 2012 at 5:07 PM

That was for the French citizens to decide. I wasn’t a French citizen, so I couldn’t care less. That was between France and England.

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 5:03 PM

So…Would it be immoral if it was within my power to intervene to safe your life and/or your loved ones if I did so?

Or, on the other hand, would it be immoral for me to have that ability yet refuse to do so because I don’t think you’re worth it?

Liam on September 27, 2012 at 5:07 PM

You said that “an ideology based on freedom, voluntary relationships, and the non-aggression principle”. Well, we had a voluntary relationship with Kuwait where we bought oil from them. Iraq violated the non-aggression principle and invaded Kuwait thereby fouling up that volumtary relationship. Yet, you say we should stand idly by. I hope you never have any friends who get attacked by a thug in your presence. Your response would be that it would be wrong to intervene while your friend gets the crap beat out of him/her.

Bitter Clinger on September 27, 2012 at 4:57 PM

You are confusing nation states with individuals, and you’re not the first to do so.

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 5:08 PM

True. I just thought it was funny how you described libertarians.

Bitter Clinger on September 27, 2012 at 5:05 PM

Libertarians and ‘compassionate conservatives’ are in some ways refugees from the takeover of the Democratic party by the socialists.

sharrukin on September 27, 2012 at 5:08 PM

Actually the threat of war and the knowledge they couldn’t defend it induced France to sell.

Jefferson disliked the idea of purchasing Louisiana from France, as that could imply that France had a right to be in Louisiana. Jefferson believed that a U.S. President did not have the authority to make such a deal: it was not specified in the Constitution. He also thought that to do so would erode states’ rights by increasing federal executive power. On the other hand, he was aware of the potential threat that France could be in that region and was prepared to go to war to prevent a strong French presence there.

sharrukin on September 27, 2012 at 4:57 PM

It doesn’t matter what France’s motivations were. The fact is that we acquired the territory through trade, not through force. The Constitional issue is a red herring and irrelevant to the point.

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 5:09 PM

It’s too bad President Obama didn’t have any time to discuss all this “noise” with Netanyahu while he’s in the country this week — but I’m sure he’ll be looking forward to the president’s phone call on Friday.

If I were Bibi, I’d let it roll over to voicemail. Seriously.

Netanyahu asked for a meeting and was rebuffed because the rat-eared coward and Mooch had to go hang out with those angry fat liberal cows (and Elizabeth). Shows you were the priorities were. The whole point for this extended version of the Star Wars bar scene in NYC is the face-to-face communication between world leaders. Obama did a fly by speech that disgraced this nation and further made the Presidency seem small. Had to get out there to campaign in “Oiho” where the Dems are claiming the race is over with Obama the victor by a huge margin.

Happy Nomad on September 27, 2012 at 5:09 PM

Why? It was American citizens who had their wealth seized and who were forcibly conscripted into service to die for another country.

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 5:05 PM

Are you truly that puerile? Can you really not back away from such a naive view and understand that eventually a conquering fascist nation would have been knocking on our door at here, with the full wealth and natural resources of Europe to fund them?

ShadowsPawn on September 27, 2012 at 5:10 PM

I’m starting to wonder if libertarians are just cheap liberals, but honest about wanting to keep their money.

kim roy on September 27, 2012 at 4:57 PM

Classical liberal.

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 5:10 PM

You are confusing nation states with individuals, and you’re not the first to do so.

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 5:08 PM

With you, I’m not so sure. I’ll make sure I never walk by a dark alley with you.

Just in case.

Bitter Clinger on September 27, 2012 at 5:10 PM

Why? It was American citizens who had their wealth seized and who were forcibly conscripted into service to die for another country.

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 5:05 PM

Had we stayed out, and then with Europe in Nazi hands, how do you think we would have fared against the axis powers alone?

I don’t think you can see past your nose with you eyes closed.

OTTO on September 27, 2012 at 5:10 PM

Those who stand up for nothing will fall for anything.

Rea1ityCheck on September 27, 2012 at 5:11 PM

You know, I once briefly latched onto this Libertarian foreign policy notion. Then, I realized how naive and stupid I was being. This would be a great notion if all nations/people were rational, civilized entities. However, they’re not. Evil exists in the world. It must be confronted and stopped whenever possible.

Bitter Clinger on September 27, 2012 at 4:42 PM

I also was of the same frame of mind, and likewise realized the stupidity and niavety of that line of thinking…

Actually, it was reading the many comments here over time and seeking out other answers that I came to change my mind…

Scrumpy on September 27, 2012 at 5:12 PM

I’m starting to wonder if libertarians are just cheap liberals, but honest about wanting to keep their money.

kim roy on September 27, 2012 at 4:57 PM

A liberal friend of mine provided a very good description of Libertarians.

She said that if you wrote “conservative” on the right side of a strip of paper and wrote “liberal” on the left side of the strip of paper, Libertarians would occupy the spot where the far right and the far left would meet if you connected the two ends of the paper to form a circle.

wren on September 27, 2012 at 5:13 PM

It doesn’t matter what France’s motivations were. The fact is that we acquired the territory through trade, not through force. The Constitional issue is a red herring and irrelevant to the point.

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 5:09 PM

The mafia works the same way. They make you an offer you can’t refuse and then you sell them your business…but no force was involved.

sharrukin on September 27, 2012 at 5:15 PM

A liberal friend of mine provided a very good description of Libertarians.

She said that if you wrote “conservative” on the right side of a strip of paper and wrote “liberal” on the left side of the strip of paper, Libertarians would occupy the spot where the far right and the far left would meet if you connected the two ends of the paper to form a circle.

wren on September 27, 2012 at 5:13 PM

Chicken Dinner!

OTTO on September 27, 2012 at 5:15 PM

Do you think it was wrong for the French to help fight for our Independence?

OTTO on September 27, 2012 at 4:53 PM

That was for the French citizens to decide. I wasn’t a French citizen, so I couldn’t care less. That was between France and England.

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 5:03 PM

Actually, during the American Revolution, to my best recollection, France was still ruled by a monarchy. If the King unilaterally said, “Fight,” they conscripted civilians and fought.

Kind of like Obama with Libya. Except without the draft.

Mitoch55 on September 27, 2012 at 5:15 PM

How about we all tell Dante, “You win,” and let him go on his way?

It’s not like we need him around to make our lives ‘better’, is it?

Liam on September 27, 2012 at 5:15 PM

Foreign aid is wealth redistribution. Our taxes – seized property – pay for our troops and their equipment. Germanic Europe was not a part of the United States. It was none of our business. Let other nations do as they wish. If a nation violates another nation’s sovereignty, that’s between them. If they wish to find allies and aid, let them do so, but don’t look to us. It is none of our business.

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 4:36 PM

You’re a f&*%ing dunce. What do you think ‘we’ did in WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Kuwait?

“a nation violated another nation’s sovereignty, that’s between them. If they wish to find allies and aid, let them do so”

They did in US!

“but don’t look to us. It is none of our business.”

You cannot even keep your thoughts on track for one page. If we have allies, and they’re attacked, then they should find other allies? But not us? Do you even realize how retarded you sound?

It is our business precisely because people are being murdered and raped and pillaged. Those verbs are the antithesis of what America stands for. If you’re not willing to stand up for the lives and freedom of others you’re just a chickensh!t hoping to grow old and die before someone kicks down your door and reaps upon you what you so willingly allow to happen to others.

StompUDead on September 27, 2012 at 5:15 PM

to Dante on September 27, 2012 at 5:03 PM from Liam:

So…Would it be immoral if it was within my power to intervene to safe your life and/or your loved ones if I did so?

Or, on the other hand, would it be immoral for me to have that ability yet refuse to do so because I don’t think you’re worth it?

Liam on September 27, 2012 at 5:07 PM

Come on Dante ANSWER THE DAMN QUESTION!!

Scrumpy on September 27, 2012 at 5:16 PM

Dante: More important, as you should know, is not only that we don’t want you around.

We don’t need you.

Liam on September 27, 2012 at 5:18 PM

With you, I’m not so sure. I’ll make sure I never walk by a dark alley with you.

Just in case.

Bitter Clinger on September 27, 2012 at 5:10 PM

Why?

If someone initiates force against another, then I have the choice to defend or aid that person, which I would do in most instances.

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 4:45 PM

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 5:19 PM

Scrumpy on September 27, 2012 at 5:16 PM

He’s not going to answer that.

Liam on September 27, 2012 at 5:19 PM

You are confusing nation states with individuals, and you’re not the first to do so.

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 5:08 PM

Nations are comprised of individuals, retard. They’re inseperable unless you’re a retard looking for some abstract body to foist the retarded notion of ‘its their business not mine’ onto.

StompUDead on September 27, 2012 at 5:19 PM

Erika: there is a scripting error somehow attached to the video link, it’s annoying… have to click on it (the pop up) numerous times to get rid of it esp when commenting and refreshing…

Can it be fixed?

Scrumpy on September 27, 2012 at 5:21 PM

Actually, during the American Revolution, to my best recollection, France was still ruled by a monarchy. If the King unilaterally said, “Fight,” they conscripted civilians and fought.

Kind of like Obama with Libya. Except without the draft.

Mitoch55 on September 27, 2012 at 5:15 PM

Actually, we were constructed as a Constitutional republic that also conscripted its civilians to fight. It doesn’t matter the form of government, all governments are inherently coercion and force.

Of course, your statement is irrelevant. After all, the monarchy was overthrown, was it not?

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 5:21 PM

Just wow. From the Libertarian Party website, regarding terrorism

We cannot indulge the ignorant desire to blame anti-American terrorism on a “hatred of freedom,” “72 virgins,” or other such nonsense.

and this gem:

The best form of anti-terrorism insurance is to remove all troops from the Middle East.

Yeah, so the rest of the world can go to he** in a handbasket.

Mitsouko on September 27, 2012 at 5:22 PM

If someone initiates force against another, then I have the choice to defend or aid that person, which I would do in most instances.

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 4:45 PM

You wouldn’t. Just admit you’re a scared little girl and you just want the monsters to go away. Go ahead and bury your scared little head, sweetheart.

StompUDead on September 27, 2012 at 5:22 PM

It doesn’t matter the form of government, all governments are inherently coercion and force.

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 5:21 PM

So we need to get rid of all governments right?

sharrukin on September 27, 2012 at 5:22 PM

Nations are comprised of individuals, retard. They’re inseperable unless you’re a retard looking for some abstract body to foist the retarded notion of ‘its their business not mine’ onto.

StompUDead on September 27, 2012 at 5:19 PM

Even after reading this site for years and perusing the comments, I am still genuinely surprised when conservatives (well, alleged conservatives) argue for statism and the collective, and argue against the individual.

But that was nice how you worked in the word “retard” not once, not twice, but three times! It demonstrates a command of the topic.

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 5:23 PM

You are confusing nation states with individuals, and you’re not the first to do so.

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 5:08 PM

The entire concept of international diplomacy depends on one thing: It’s about people(s), first and foremost.

Liam on September 27, 2012 at 5:23 PM

So we need to get rid of all governments right?

sharrukin on September 27, 2012 at 5:22 PM

That’d be great.

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 5:24 PM

Do you think it was wrong for the French to help fight for our Independence?

OTTO on September 27, 2012 at 4:53 PM

That was for the French citizens to decide. I wasn’t a French citizen, so I couldn’t care less. That was between France and England.

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 5:03 PM

Dante,

Somebody awarded you the dumbest post of the day around noon. I’d say that person was about five hours too early. The title was always going to be yours but this has to be the most ignorant comment of the day.

The French had a king during the American Revolution. The Estates-General of 1789 was the first meeting of anything that implied representative government since 1614. French involvement in the American Revolution and French claims to the territories sold to the US are complex issues. But for the purposes of this post and your limited intellect, let’s just close on this point. The French citizen had no choice about the matter.

Happy Nomad on September 27, 2012 at 5:24 PM

Yeah, so the rest of the world can go to he** in a handbasket.

Mitsouko on September 27, 2012 at 5:22 PM

We are a bankrupt nation and you want to tax people and spend it defending the rest of the world? Not to mention building up the military and removing people from the private economy to do so.

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 5:25 PM

He’s not going to answer that.

Liam on September 27, 2012 at 5:19 PM

You are so right, it’s the question I had to pretty much ask myself, and he isn’t gonna like the answer cuz he is too embedded in the libertarian viewpoint.

I took the time to find the error in my thinking cuz at first I thought, hey that’s a great idea! But in hindsight and indepth thinking I realised it wasn’t right…

I am reformed in a major way…

Scrumpy on September 27, 2012 at 5:25 PM

The French citizen had no choice about the matter.

Happy Nomad on September 27, 2012 at 5:24 PM

Citizens always have a choice. They revolted, did they not?

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 5:26 PM

So we need to get rid of all governments right?

sharrukin on September 27, 2012 at 5:22 PM

That’d be great.

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 5:24 PM

Sadly you aren’t alone in that desire.

sharrukin on September 27, 2012 at 5:26 PM

The mafia works the same way. They make you an offer you can’t refuse and then you sell them your business…but no force was involved.

sharrukin on September 27, 2012 at 5:15 PM

You have summed up government perfectly.

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 5:27 PM

Citizens always have a choice. They revolted, did they not?

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 5:26 PM

If there are no governments or nationalities, then where can there be ‘citizens’?

Liam on September 27, 2012 at 5:28 PM

The best form of anti-terrorism insurance is to remove all troops from the Middle East.

Yeah, so the rest of the world can go to he** in a handbasket.

Mitsouko on September 27, 2012 at 5:22 PM

Libertarians aren’t smart people. They don’t recognize the role of American leadership in things like regional stability or global trade. If Obama wants to lead from behind, Ron Paul and his crowd want to lead from another zip code.

Happy Nomad on September 27, 2012 at 5:28 PM

The mafia works the same way. They make you an offer you can’t refuse and then you sell them your business…but no force was involved.

sharrukin on September 27, 2012 at 5:15 PM

You have summed up government perfectly.

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 5:27 PM

Actually that’s human nature which you cannot face with your Utopian desire for a society that relies on men not acting aggressively towards each other.

sharrukin on September 27, 2012 at 5:30 PM

Dante is full of shit — he doesn’t actually care about individual liberty or the Constitution.

Why do I say that??

We have, right now, in office a man who has done and will do more damage to our freedoms and wants to turn the US into a Marxist utopia. You’d think that would make him enemy number one to Dante, right? Well you’re wrong. Dante would rather see Obama win re-election than vote for Romney, the only person who has a chance of stopping him.

stefanite on September 27, 2012 at 5:32 PM

Citizens always have a choice. They revolted, did they not?

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 5:26 PM

True but not until the 1780s and for reasons that had nothing to do with the American Revolution beyond the inspiration it provided. You implied the French citizens voted to declare war on the UK to support the American Revolution and that is just nonsense.

Happy Nomad on September 27, 2012 at 5:32 PM

Mitoch55 on September 27, 2012 at 5:15 PM

Not my point.
Sovereign nations do what they must to protect their interests, immediate and long term. The type of government makes no difference.
Dante has no long term vision.

OTTO on September 27, 2012 at 5:32 PM

Actually that’s human nature which you cannot face with your Utopian desire for a society that relies on men not acting aggressively towards each other.

sharrukin on September 27, 2012 at 5:30 PM

A link for you here and here.

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 5:35 PM

If you have a serious conversation with a young Libertarian, you will discover within 5 minutes that the political issue they care most about is the legalization of drugs.

Try this conversational experiment in your community. It’s fun and predictable.

wren on September 27, 2012 at 5:36 PM

To the wise Bibi said, listen up, or I’ll make a noise nobody can ignore. To the UN Bibi said, I am a racist.

Limerick on September 27, 2012 at 5:36 PM

If you listen to anarchists like Dante, then compare to Marx, the result they seek is the same.

The problem, though, is what happens between now and the end result. History proves all that.

And, what neither anarchists and Marxists can or will answer is, “How long until we get there?”

Liam on September 27, 2012 at 5:37 PM

Even after reading this site for years and perusing the comments, I am still genuinely surprised when conservatives (well, alleged conservatives) argue for statism and the collective, and argue against the individual.

But that was nice how you worked in the word “retard” not once, not twice, but three times! It demonstrates a command of the topic.

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 5:23 PM

The United States doesn’t exist in a vacuum. To assume or declare so is a lie.

I in no way argued for ‘statism’ or ‘the collective’. I argued against the notion, that you put forward, that ‘nation states’ are separate from their body politic. The people in every nation state live under an implied contract. In our nation state that contract seeks(or was designed) to keep as much autonomy with the individual as we can maintain. Other nation states not so much. It’s that autonomy, expressed through that contract(& our government) that we desire for everyone else because we know it to be the best way to live and thrive.

You problem is, you don’t hold the position that others around the world deserve the same life and liberty you do. You would let them burn while you sit idle and mumbling through spittled lips that, ‘it’s not my responsibility’.

You are a retarded retard.

StompUDead on September 27, 2012 at 5:37 PM

wren on September 27, 2012 at 5:36 PM

Of course. Like my pop always said….”You can pretend to be anyone you like, but the real you is gonna shine”. Smart man, pops.

Limerick on September 27, 2012 at 5:38 PM

Yes, evil does exist, but it is equally evil to seize property from a citizenry and give it to another, or to force your citizens into fighting and dying for another country.

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 4:48 PM

The draft was abolished in 1973. All our military since then have done so voluntarily, so they have not been forced into service.

chelie on September 27, 2012 at 5:39 PM

You are a retarded retard.

StompUDead on September 27, 2012 at 5:37 PM

All that really needs to be said to a troll.

MadisonConservative on September 27, 2012 at 5:40 PM

We are a bankrupt nation and you want to tax people and spend it defending the rest of the world? Not to mention building up the military and removing people from the private economy to do so.

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 5:25 PM

Um……..

You really want to add military-hater to your resume?

Tell you what. Let’s enhance the drama queen part of instead.

Nobody (with any legitimacy) has even suggested the building up the military. In fact the real question right now is just how much is going to be cut out of the defense budget and there are serious issues in making such decisions.

But that is only part of the equation. There are ways to cut the budget on the domestic side too. National Defense is a Constitutionally recognized responsibility of the federal government. Tracking education grants or the sex life of snail darters is not.

And while you idiots refuse to understand this concept, America does need to remain engaged in the community of nations.

Happy Nomad on September 27, 2012 at 5:41 PM

A link for you here and here.

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 5:35 PM

Why don’t you address the point rather than trying to pawn it off?

Private security exists within a STATE, or they are De facto the state.

sharrukin on September 27, 2012 at 5:41 PM

I’m starting to wonder if libertarians are just cheap liberals, but honest about wanting to keep their money.

kim roy on September 27, 2012 at 4:57 PM

A liberal friend of mine provided a very good description of Libertarians.

She said that if you wrote “conservative” on the right side of a strip of paper and wrote “liberal” on the left side of the strip of paper, Libertarians would occupy the spot where the far right and the far left would meet if you connected the two ends of the paper to form a circle.

wren on September 27, 2012 at 5:13 PM

Nice. ;)

Oh and Dante, my husband thanks you for the laff he had when I said you called me a liberal.

kim roy on September 27, 2012 at 5:46 PM

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 5:35 PM

I know you keep trying to make a point somewhere. If I could find a place to mail it, I’d send you a custom-made T-shirt (your choice of color) with the logo, “Something To Prove.”

You, Dante, are really quite a detriment to your own side.

If you’re paid to come in here and mess with us, you might want to consider getting your supervisor to take over.

Your mouthwash just ain’t makin’ it.

Liam on September 27, 2012 at 5:48 PM

A link for you here and here.

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 5:35 PM

Why don’t you address the point rather than trying to pawn it off?

Private security exists within a STATE, or they are De facto the state.

sharrukin on September 27, 2012 at 5:41 PM

You thought he had an original thought that wasn’t provided to him from someone else or could actually think out and verbalize an original thought?

That was kind of you to try.

Perhaps Dante needs to hook up with our talking points trolls to at least earn a buck or two for the regurgitation effort. Don’t give it away for free, Dante!

kim roy on September 27, 2012 at 5:49 PM

The draft was abolished in 1973. All our military since then have done so voluntarily, so they have not been forced into service.

chelie on September 27, 2012 at 5:39 PM

Nor were they ever “dying for another country.” Dante isn’t too bright. He/she/it doesn’t comprehend that American interests extend beyond the boundries of the United States. He/she/it wants us to roll up into a ball and ignore the rest of the planet.

I’m not happy with what is going on in Afghanistan and want us to disengage sooner rather than later (what we hoped to accomplish is clearly impossible). But that doesn’t mean that those troops who died, the majority due to Obama’s surge, were fighting for Afghanistan. There were and are geo-political reasons why the United States cannot ignore the region. Far too advanced for idiots like Dante to understand.

Dante’s kind of thinking gave us WW II.

Happy Nomad on September 27, 2012 at 5:54 PM

You thought he had an original thought that wasn’t provided to him from someone else or could actually think out and verbalize an original thought?

That was kind of you to try.

kim roy on September 27, 2012 at 5:49 PM

He doesn’t even know he’s in a group (cult?) that is disturbingly similar to the Marxists as Liam points out above. It is contrary to human nature and requires a great deal of Handwavium to work.

sharrukin on September 27, 2012 at 5:56 PM

Perhaps Dante needs to hook up with our talking points trolls to at least earn a buck or two for the regurgitation effort. Don’t give it away for free, Dante!

kim roy on September 27, 2012 at 5:49 PM

You make trolling sound so dirty! ;0

Happy Nomad on September 27, 2012 at 5:58 PM

Of course. Like my pop always said….”You can pretend to be anyone you like, but the real you is gonna shine”. Smart man, pops.

Limerick on September 27, 2012 at 5:38 PM

You clearly come from a wise family, Limerick!

wren on September 27, 2012 at 6:02 PM

I am a non-interventionist, not an isolationist.
Dante on September 27, 2012 at 4:34 PM

That’s like saying “I am a white/black/whatever supremacist, not a racist”.

I hope you never have any friends who get attacked by a thug in your presence. Your response would be that it would be wrong to intervene while your friend gets the crap beat out of him/her.

Bitter Clinger on September 27, 2012 at 4:57 PM

When one lives in one’s own Paulbot inferno, under a rock, one tends to have very few friends.

Benedict Nelson on September 27, 2012 at 6:04 PM

How pathetic.

Lew Rockwell the 3rd on September 27, 2012 at 4:08 PM

“I Don’t Believe the Judge!”

Del Dolemonte on September 27, 2012 at 6:08 PM

Obama’s plan: The redline is a mushroom cloud. When you see one of those in Jerusalem, it’s time to start planning a pre-emptive strike… Because you just know if any of those bloodthirsty Jews are still alive, they’re going to try and start something.

logis on September 27, 2012 at 6:08 PM

We should not intervene in the affairs of foreign nations, nor should we seize wealth from our citizens and hand it over to a foreign government or send our citizens off to die for another country.

Lew Rockwell Junior on September 27, 2012 at 4:14 PM

Er, foreign nations decided to intervene in our affairs on September 11th 2001. They started it.

F-

Del Dolemonte on September 27, 2012 at 6:10 PM

How about this?!

Shy Guy on September 27, 2012 at 4:03 PM

I hope that gets seen by those who need to see it.

Night Owl on September 27, 2012 at 6:11 PM

General Asembly= A collection of socialist and various thugs and tyrants.

newportmike on September 27, 2012 at 6:16 PM

Actually that’s human nature which you cannot face with your Utopian desire for a society that relies on men not acting aggressively towards each other.

sharrukin on September 27, 2012 at 5:30 PM

A link for you here and here.

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 5:35 PM

Watched the first one. Not watching the second as it’s an hour long.

It doesn’t address the point. He talks about a ‘virtuous’ population that behaves under a nation-state and wonders why they wouldn’t behave under a non-existent state. I suspect the police, military and laws have something to do with that as well as the expectation that violence won’t pay. He dances around the entire question and doesn’t seem to understand that people will do what is in their own best interest and what works.

It’s odd because he believes in the force of the marketplace and must believe that self interest is a force in human relations, but that understanding short-circuits when it comes to violence.

Smashing your brains in to take your stuff is a tried and true tactic that goes back a long way. It works rather well when there aren’t any guards around to mess you up. Violence works which is why the police exist and why we have military armed forces.

His answer as to why there won’t be any warlords is that a virtuous people wouldn’t do that sort of thing. It was childish nonsense that was frankly embarrassing coming from a supposed adult.

sharrukin on September 27, 2012 at 6:16 PM

Iraq did not attack us.

Lew Rockwell’s Grandfather on September 27, 2012 at 4:16 PM

Iraq had been attacking us since the end of the first Gulf War.

Congress authorized the liberation of Iraq, not Bush.

And in 3 separate cases, US Federal Judges have ruled in lawsuits by 9/11 family members that not only was Iraq involved in 9/11, but Iran was as well.

But you don’t believe those facts, or that 2002 Iraq Authorization, or those Federal Judges’ rulings based on the evidence presented at said trials.

Which is all one needs to know.

No Grade.

Del Dolemonte on September 27, 2012 at 6:16 PM

As if it was not obvious he’s an entertainer more so than a statesman.

lester, it’s time for your violin lesson! on September 27, 2012 at 4:24 PM

The Stupid is strong in this post…

Del Dolemonte on September 27, 2012 at 6:18 PM

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 4:24 PM

Simply Breathtaking.

Del Dolemonte on September 27, 2012 at 6:19 PM

And anarchy does not suck. Anarcho-capitalism is the most moral system there is.

Lew Rockwell on September 27, 2012 at 4:32 PM

Ah, a Vancouver Canucks fans!

Del Dolemonte on September 27, 2012 at 6:21 PM

And anarchy does not suck. Anarcho-capitalism is the most moral system there is. An ideology based on freedom, voluntary relationships, and the non-aggression principle. Anarchy means without ruler, not without rules.

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 4:32 PM

What a joke…

“Old woman!”

“Man.”

“Man. Sorry.”

“I’m not old.”

“What’s that?”

“I say I’m not old.”

“Well I can’t very well just call you ‘man.’”

“Well you could say Dennis…”

cicerone on September 27, 2012 at 6:23 PM

I am a non-interventionist, not an isolationist. I favor diplomatic relations and trade relations with nations. I am for a strong defense that belongs at home, not abroad, defending OUR border, not someone else’s. I am against U.S. military bases in other countries. We were not created to be an empire, no matter how much we act like one and no matter how much you desire it.

Lew Rockwell Junior on September 27, 2012 at 4:34 PM

Your final 5 sentences above directly contradict what you said in your very first sentence above.

E-

Del Dolemonte on September 27, 2012 at 6:23 PM

Iraq invaded Kuwait and we intervened militarily. Kuwait, as you may not know, is not part of the United States.

Lew Rockwell 19 on September 27, 2012 at 4:39 PM

I know you were only 2 years old at the time, but the Liberation of Kuwait was in fact carried out by a 34 country U.N. Coalition.

Said Coalition included Argentina, Australia, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Egypt, France, Greece, Italy, Kuwait, Morocco, Netherlands, New Zealand, Niger, Norway, Oman, Pakistan, Portugal, Qatar, South Korea, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Singapore, Spain, Syria, the United Arab Emirates, the United Kingdom and us.

F-

Del Dolemonte on September 27, 2012 at 6:29 PM

The RightWrong-Wing still wants Iraq 2.0?

Cut foreign aid to every single nation that isn’t our staunch military ally (read: basically all of them) and you can have it with my blessings. Along with the inevitable failure and being written up in history books as a ship of fools.

MelonCollie on September 27, 2012 at 6:29 PM

You think it was wrong to defend Kuwait?

the_nile on September 27, 2012 at 4:42 PM

Absolutely it was wrong.

Lew Rockwell Unit #86 on September 27, 2012 at 4:46 PM

Was it also wrong of the United States to put out Kuwait’s oil well fires after Saddam set them ablaze and created an international environmental catastrophe?

Breathtaking.

Del Dolemonte on September 27, 2012 at 6:33 PM

The draft was abolished in 1973. All our military since then have done so voluntarily, so they have not been forced into service.

chelie on September 27, 2012 at 5:39 PM

My statement wasn’t specific to America.

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 6:55 PM

Dante’s kind of thinking gave us WW II.

Happy Nomad on September 27, 2012 at 5:54 PM

Actually it was your interventionist thinking that gave us WW II.

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 6:56 PM

The economy is worse than we thought- now they’re ought of red ink.

sesuncedu on September 27, 2012 at 7:01 PM

The economy is worse than we thought- now they’re ought of red ink.

sesuncedu on September 27, 2012 at 7:01 PM

LOL…ouch.

MelonCollie on September 27, 2012 at 7:06 PM

Dante’s kind of thinking gave us WW II.

Happy Nomad on September 27, 2012 at 5:54 PM

Actually it was your interventionist thinking that gave us WW II.

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 6:56 PM

Actually it was revenge-bent Europeans that gave us WW2 by setting up an industrial power for a comeback by whoever had the charisma and the wiles to rally their nation. Which, not surprisingly, also turned out to be a genocidal maniac.

If I remember right our president at that time walked out of the conference when it became clear that the other powers wouldn’t be swayed. And thank God we learned our lesson and started plans to keep the same thing from happening again after WW2…I believe it was called the Marshal Plan.

MelonCollie on September 27, 2012 at 7:10 PM

Hey Dante. Let’s say your baby sister is getting raped right in front of you.

Gonna intervene?

BigAlSouth on September 27, 2012 at 7:14 PM

Dante,Dante, Dante, had you only been capable of answering that very simple question. You would have such a better understanding of things. Alas you could not answer it.

Bmore on September 27, 2012 at 7:15 PM

I’m not a fan of the “red line” approach, but oh, to have a national leader who speaks well of and defends his country.

J.E. Dyer on September 27, 2012 at 7:19 PM

Hey Dante. Let’s say your baby sister is getting raped right in front of you.

Gonna intervene?

BigAlSouth on September 27, 2012 at 7:14 PM

Yeah, and that intervention is gonna require the American military to stop an entire nation at the cost of billions of dollars and hundreds in lives.

The only question is are you really that stupid to make such a comparison, or are you just a wingnut dirtbag?

Dante, I really think it’s best if you leave the thread quietly. Nothing short of divine intervention is gonna change these people’s minds and you’re just creating a flamefest.

MelonCollie on September 27, 2012 at 7:19 PM

Hey Dante. Let’s say your baby sister is getting raped right in front of you.

Gonna intervene?

BigAlSouth on September 27, 2012 at 7:14 PM

Read the thread and understand the argument.

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 7:23 PM

The redline is a mushroom cloud.

logis on September 27, 2012 at 6:08 PM

Only if Barry’s favorite golf course is projected to lie within the blast footprint…

bandarlog on September 27, 2012 at 7:23 PM

I would just like to point out that 99.9% of you in this thread are arguing FOR the foreign policy of progressivism. Interventionism is the foreign policy of Teddy Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, and Franklin Roosevelt.

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 7:24 PM

I would just like to point out that 99.9% of you in this thread are arguing FOR the foreign policy of progressivism. Interventionism is the foreign policy of Teddy Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, and Franklin Roosevelt.

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 7:24 PM

It’s not a binary choice. There are reasons and means of taking action overseas that vary greatly. You are attempting to suggest that one intervenes, or one runs away. The real world doesn’t work that way.

sharrukin on September 27, 2012 at 7:33 PM

Dante on September 27, 2012 at 7:23 PM

Yeah, I wouldn’t intervene either.

BigAlSouth on September 27, 2012 at 7:46 PM

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