The Bandwagoneers, part II
posted at 10:03 pm on September 24, 2012 by Mitch Berg
Over the weekend, the Minneapolis Star/Tribune (“the Strib” to Minnesotans) released one of its in-house “Minnesota Polls” – which has been, since the mid-1940′s, the brand-label poll of Minnesota political opinion by Minnesota’s marquee news outlet.
Over the past couple of years, I’ve been doing a lot of analysis on the “Minnesota Poll”; to put it bluntly, it’s been a travesty since the late 1980s. Its most annoying – or fraudulent, if you’re feeling less charitable – habit is the fact that it always under-reports Republican performance, especially in the polls it releases the Sunday before election day every two years, for Senate, Governor and President as well as key Constitutional referenda. While the Strib writes this off to statistical noise, analysis shows that this phenomenon has been a universally one-way thing since 1988; it shorts Republican performance at three times the rate it shorts the DFL. And the closer the election eventually turns out, the more pronounced the tendency; in other words, if the DFL is heading to a complete blow-out (as in the 2006 Senate race), the more accurate the polling turns out to be, whereas in razor-close races (like the 2010 gubernatorial race, in which Mark Dayton beat Republican Tom Emmer by four tenths of a point) the more ludicrously inflated the margin of the poll the Strib drops in that last, vital pre-election paper.
They released three polls over the weekend – on results for the Presidential race and the Constitutional initiatives that would define Marriage and require ID to vote in Minnesota elections.
And while the polls cover Minnesota, the analysis is germane for everyone.
———-
The results appear to the the sorts of things you expect in a state whose last two high-profile elections – the 2010 Governor’s race and the 2008 Franken-Coleman Senate battle – end in recounts decided, in the case of Franken/Coleman, by a margin of under 300 votes.
- The Voter ID Amendment, the Strib claims, is leading by a tight 52% in favor, 44 against margin with 4% undecided.
- The Marriage Amendment tallies an even tighter lead; 49 in favor, 47 opposed, with 4% undecided. This is vital; under Minnesota election law, Constitutional initiatives must pass by a majority of the ballots cast. Ballots left unmarked are countes as “No” votes. If these numbers persist ’til election day, the Marriage Amendment loses.
- President Obama is shown with a comfortable 48-40 lead over Mitt Romney, with libertarian Gary Johnson tallying another 5% of the vote.
At face value, this would tend to confirm the conventional wisdom; Minnesota is a very split state that still votes Democrat for the top of the ticket.
But to get to the real truth, you have to do something few Americans, and very very few in the Strib’s readership, ever do; look at the numbers that go into the poll. These aren’t even a part of the actual stories about the poll, in the online version; they’re buried in a sidebar link. But they’re there.
And the story they tell is a fairy tale (I’ve added emphasis):
The self-identified party affiliation of the random sample is: 41 percent Democrat, 28 percent Republican and 31 percent independent or other.
The pollsters – Mason-Dixon, this year; the Strib fired its in-house staff in 2007, subbing the polls out to Princeton Research in 2010 and switching to Mason Dixon this year – would have you believe that there will be 13% more Democrats than Republicans at the polls this fall.
But recent elections reveal this as madness:
- In 2008 – a banner year for Democrats, nationally and in stereotypically blue Minnesota – the partisan split was 39% Democrat, 33% Republican and 28% various flavors of Independent (a little under half of whom voted for the Independence Party, best known as Jesse Ventura’s vehicle).
- In 2010 – the year the GOP flipped both chambers in the State Legislature and came within a few thousand votes of winning the Governor’s race – the breakout was 38% Democrat, 34% GOP and 26% independent and Independence.
The Strib would have you believe that the DFL (Minnesotan for “Democrats”) has gone up three points since the wave election of 2008, and the GOP has dropped six from its performance in 2010?
Why yes, they do; according to the Strib’s Rachel Stassen-Berger, “Brad Coker, managing director of Mason-Dixon Polling & Research, which conducted the poll for the Star Tribune, said those numbers are consistent with what he has seen over the years”, but neither explains precisely why.
The Strib’s partisan breakdown is very clearly balderdash. Let’s try this:
- Roll the partisan breakdown back to something more closely suggested by history, something between 2008 and 2010 – let’s say 38% Democrat, 34% Republican, similar to 2010. This means 3% lower DFL turnout, and 6% higher GOP, than is shown in the Minnesota Poll.
- Apply the various partisan levels of support for or against each measure or candidate – which are in the sixties for the Marriage Amendment, with Democrats in the high seventies against both Amendments, the GOP in the eighties in favor of the Voter ID Amendment, and with both parties in the nineties for their parties Presidential candidate (Democrats 91% for Obama, Republicans 96% for Romney), and…
- …add or subtract appropriately,
- Voter ID passes by 57/42 – which is very close to the 2:1 margin most other polls have shown.
- Marriage Amendment becomes more like 53.5% for, roughly 44.5% against – which is outside the margin of error and means even if every single undecided voter votes “no” or leaves the ballot blank for the issue (which is treated the same way under Minnesota election law). the amendment passes by a sizeable margin
- The Presidential race is actually 47.7% Obama, 45.8% Romney.
Viewed with extrapolations on a more realistic turnout model, it’s fairly clear that Voter ID is going to win big, the Marriage Amendment isn’t as close as its detractors would claimn, and our presidential race is within two points.
So why is the partisan split shown in the Minnesota Poll so ludicrous?
———-
The Star/Tribune, especially at the editorial-board level, is famously biased to the left, even among newspapers.
To a cynic, the answer is as obvious as the distortion in the numbers themselves; the Strib and their various pollsters are well aware of the “Bandwagon Effect” studied by Dr. Alfred Mehrabian, which noted that negative poll numbers do drive down election results for candidates who are shown to be losing. Published in the Journal of Applied Social Psychology in 1998, it noted:
Results of two experimental studies described in this article constituted clear experimental demonstration of how polls influence votes. Findings showed that voters tended to vote for those who they were told were leading in the polls; furthermore, that these poll-driven effects on votes were substantial.
And there’s your lesson nationwide; from the mass of AP and WaPo polls with absurd D+7 samples showing Obama with comfortable leads, to Nate Silver’s NYTimes poll analysis that shows Obama well-ahead in Minnesota – using the Strib Minnesota Poll as a key input to his findings, it’s reasonable to say “OK, let’s say you, the media, are not jiggering the figures to suppress Republican turnout – if, hypothetically, you were, how would they be any different?”
I’m still waiting on that answer.
This post was promoted from GreenRoom to HotAir.com.
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The foxes are guarding the fox house. I don’t think there are any hens left.
The Rogue Tomato on May 17, 2013 at 12:38 PM
When did the IRS hire Jerry Lundergaard from Fargo?
Terp Mole on May 17, 2013 at 12:38 PM
shawked
phatfawzi on May 17, 2013 at 12:38 PM
It explains why the new acting commissioner was coincidentally promoted a few days before: he was their fall guy.
blammm on May 17, 2013 at 12:40 PM
This is NOT a good or decent person.
Jabberwock on May 17, 2013 at 12:41 PM
Is Miller a tax cheat also?
docflash on May 17, 2013 at 12:42 PM
Wait… If they staged it they knew the internal report and decided to damage control it…
That had to come from above and the one person who had the lost at stake said he didn’t know about it because the report wasn’t released yet…
Skywise on May 17, 2013 at 12:43 PM
so if i get this right? the department that makes sure were all honest LIED? OK i get it. Just wanted to make sure.
phatfawzi on May 17, 2013 at 12:43 PM
“Targeting, Congressman Brady, is what right wing whackos like Sarah Palin does, with pictures of targets and all, and we didn’t use any pictures.”
TXUS on May 17, 2013 at 12:45 PM
Great reference. I’ll take it farther: Government has arranged to kidnap its own “wife”- and taxpayers are father-in-law Wade, who’s expected to come up with the ransom money.
Bat Chain Puller on May 17, 2013 at 12:45 PM
Horrible Customer Service
Bwahahahahahahaha
TAKE’n from a man’s labor … no different from slavery..
tooo bad them slave owners n da south didn’t practice “good customer service”
roflmmfao
donabernathy on May 17, 2013 at 12:45 PM
These people (liberals in charge) have no conscience. They believe government is the answer, and therefore only have to answer to themselves. It’s all a big party, complete with hats and hooters.
kirkill on May 17, 2013 at 12:46 PM
Man it is hard to not go on a profanity laced rant in these comments.
CycloneCDB on May 17, 2013 at 12:47 PM
Every American citizen should watch this hearing to see who will be in charge of their most personal medical information…!!!!!!!!!!!!
d1carter on May 17, 2013 at 12:47 PM
It’s a pipe dream, but Congress should reciprocate the contempt the IRS commissioner showed Congress today and completely defund the entire IRS organization! That would hopefully get their attention…
geojed on May 17, 2013 at 12:47 PM
Is the government throttling our comments here at HA…? Slow down…!
d1carter on May 17, 2013 at 12:47 PM
Taxpayers aren’t the ‘customers’ of the IRS. They are the EMPLOYERS of the IRS.
Resist We Much on May 17, 2013 at 12:48 PM
This guy is really restoring my faith in big government!
/sarc
I can’t wait to find out what “bad customer service” looks like under ObamaCare.
gwelf on May 17, 2013 at 12:49 PM
So your faking this from top to bottom, and we’re supposed to trust you to be completely honest and forthright from now on?
On a sidenote, except for a few brief appearances by libfree to yap about a black church being burned down in 1802, this week has been low-troll. Curious.
Bishop on May 17, 2013 at 12:49 PM
Can’t wait.
Who’s The Racist? The Most Racist Countries In The World And The Answers Will Surprise Only The Race-Mongers
Resist We Much on May 17, 2013 at 12:49 PM
Is everyone testifying about the IRS being put under oath?
slickwillie2001 on May 17, 2013 at 12:49 PM
WHAT ‘HONESTY’ AND ‘CREDIBILITY’?
GarandFan on May 17, 2013 at 12:50 PM
Rep Mike Kelly just finished up…..the gallery erupted in applause.
CoffeeLover on May 17, 2013 at 12:50 PM
No retirement – jail. No pension, no healthcare plan, just fines and imprisonment. For a *shitload* of IRS people, damnit.
Midas on May 17, 2013 at 12:53 PM
Democrats’ solution: We should outsource this to phone operators in Mexico. And any phone operator and every remote family member can have U.S. citizenship.
BuckeyeSam on May 17, 2013 at 12:53 PM
In a just world this guy would be led from the hearing in handcuffs…
d1carter on May 17, 2013 at 12:53 PM
The House GOP, if they had any balls at all (yeah, I know) need to do a few things immediately.
Voting to repeal ObamaCare is fun and all, but we know it goes nowhere in the Senate (at least for now).
DEFUND it. Starve the beast.
And we’d better start having some serious discussions about a total revamping of the tax code- eliminate the income tax, and start de-funding the IRS while you’re at it.
Enough already.
ICanSeeNovFromMyHouse on May 17, 2013 at 12:55 PM
This.
Let’s see how many of them howl and scream their way to the top of the problem when faced with real punishment.
VibrioCocci on May 17, 2013 at 12:56 PM
The Conservative customer is always WRONG …
- IRS motto
ShainS on May 17, 2013 at 12:56 PM
The Tea Party weren’t “Targeted”.
They were just zeroed in on for IRS harassment.
portlandon on May 17, 2013 at 12:58 PM
I don’t know if it’s the fact that I grew up hearing stories from my grandparents about the communist Russia that they escaped as German Russians, but today’s hearings brought tears to my eyes. I can’t believe this is my country and the country my grandparents were so proud to become citizens of and my father fought for in WWII. Please, someone tell me we can be saved.
lea on May 17, 2013 at 12:58 PM
Even though it’s risible in the context, I’d give the IRS Commish a break on “horrible customer service.” Given the nature of all large organizations — with their mission statements and accompanying objectives to service “customers” and other stakeholders — that’s much how IRS leadership undoubtedly sees it.
But sadly, it just shows how out of touch managers in large organizations can be.
bobs1196 on May 17, 2013 at 12:58 PM
yeah, but what a fire it was!
I think sesquapredictable mentioned something about being out of pickled baby’s feet.
kirkill on May 17, 2013 at 1:00 PM
These poor IRS people are just doing the jobs that “normal” Americans won’t do.
kirkill on May 17, 2013 at 1:00 PM
Not mentioned here is this is the fellow Hillary brought in to arrange for the IRS audits of the Clinton women and enemies. Remember? And here he was, back at the IRS and that did not raise suspicion?
pat on May 17, 2013 at 1:05 PM
This charlatan was promised his great pension, and all the bennies, in exchange for all the lies.
How does any sane person believe a single word from these thugs?
Schadenfreude on May 17, 2013 at 1:06 PM
I missed that one. I remember something about shrubbery and reading up on Korean pickled cabbages, though.
rogerb on May 17, 2013 at 1:07 PM
>>Customer service
Please don’t
tazeaudit me brobbordwell on May 17, 2013 at 1:07 PM
“I want to give unelected bureaucrats like Steve Miller more power and more authority over my life, and especially my children’s lives! Big Government FTW!” -Average Dem voter
visions on May 17, 2013 at 1:07 PM
I’d have to check my notes – Miller
You have notes on that?
Ummm…No – Miller
You just said you have notes on that meeting…Now you’re saying you don’t have notes?
workingclass artist on May 17, 2013 at 1:08 PM
1. In re-ed
2. Intoxicated from all the crap
3. Working harder…’cause sugah daddy’s in trouble
Schadenfreude on May 17, 2013 at 1:09 PM
Please detail the contents of your prayers – IRS
workingclass artist on May 17, 2013 at 1:10 PM
Carnac the magnificent holds the envelope to his head.
“How did the man working on his rain gutter fall down?”
The Rogue Tomato on May 17, 2013 at 1:11 PM
It’s Rush Limbaugh’s Fault
Democratic Caucus & Il Duce’s motto
workingclass artist on May 17, 2013 at 1:12 PM
It’s mealy-mouthed bureaucrats like this that make me wish I was serving on this committee. It would give me perverse pleasure to reduce this guy to tears with the worst dressing-down he’s ever gotten.
CurtZHP on May 17, 2013 at 1:12 PM
IRS…Your Shadow Government at Work
workingclass artist on May 17, 2013 at 1:13 PM
Carnac the Magnificent holds the envelope to his head.
“When should Obama resign?”
The Rogue Tomato on May 17, 2013 at 1:14 PM
PLEASE make Kelly’s statements and applause available, HA !
Didn’t record it, and hubby needs to see/hear it !!!
pambi on May 17, 2013 at 1:14 PM
Having dealt with the IRS about back taxes, I can affirm that it does indeed have horrible customer services. You will never get the same answer from different phone reps about the same question. You often get contradictory answers, in fact. But each time they’ll insist the current answer is Gospel truth.
I remember I had a payment agreement setup that I was running late on. “Submit payment by X date or the agreement will be canceled,” they said. Now, it costs over $100 to set one of those things up (don’t ask me why) so I really didn’t want to have to do it again. So I went online and submitted my payment before X date. However, it didn’t post to their system until after X date. They said the agreement was canceled.
“No,” I said, “As you can see I submitted the payment on time. There shouldn’t be a new agreement.”
“The system canceled your agreement, so you need a new one,” they replied.
“But I paid on time. I paid before the deadline. I shouldn’t have to do this.”
And on and on it went for weeks. Finally, they re-instituted the original agreement. But, my God… I almost feel bad for the people working there. It’s like critical thought has been beaten out of them. That or the IRS simply hires people who don’t think.
Could be the latter…
selderane on May 17, 2013 at 1:15 PM
This is much worse than Watergate as potentially millions of voters were denied by the IRS the truth about this administration.
bucknut on May 17, 2013 at 1:16 PM
pat
at 1:05
Do you have where you got the info that Miller did a audits of Clinton women for Hillbeast.
If so there is a possible this is the Clintons depth charge they let go on Obama, after they figured Obama was going to blame her for Benzazie…..
APACHEWHOKNOWS on May 17, 2013 at 1:17 PM
So…ummm…
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/report-irs-deliberately-chose-not-fess-scandal-election_724711.html
I’m going to say it again. Shut. It. Down.
NOW.
Chris of Rights on May 17, 2013 at 1:17 PM
When Obama prances around the country shouting to businesses…You didn’t build that…
It’s not so strange.
Miller and likely most of the IRS crew are leftists.
The Dept. of Treasury has their own Union…and they contribute mostly to the DNC and democrats…
In 2012 Union membership gave $1,000 to republicans and over $100,000 to democrats.
workingclass artist on May 17, 2013 at 1:18 PM
“Fundamentally change America”…we’re going to have to take apart this government one Fascist/Socialist/Commie at at time.
It will take years to overcome the effect Dear Leader has had on our country and its media.
d1carter on May 17, 2013 at 1:18 PM
Yes, but it requires speaking out when you least want to and be willing to endure the consequences of speaking out.
darwin on May 17, 2013 at 1:18 PM
I sense Jarrett’s fingerprints in this mess. Lerner has to go, and Sarch Hall Ingram needs to be re-assigned or fired. Will not stand letting her oversee the Obamacare agenda. Cannot be trusted.
Amazingoly on May 17, 2013 at 1:19 PM
Well the IRS just ought to update their phone system to do the following:
If you are a member of a conservative group, Press 1.
If you are a associated with a Jewish group, Press 2.
If you plan to protest Planned Parenthood, Press 3.
If you plan to oppose Green Energy, Press 4.
If you plan to protest Obamacare, Press 5.
And the recording upon pressing those options simply ought to state, you are now being transferred to Homeland Security. I mean the IRS leaders talk about poor customer service and the reason they targeted conservative groups was to be more efficient. I mean, lets provide some solutions here and cut out the middle man. /
rsherwd65 on May 17, 2013 at 1:19 PM
The concept that citizens are the “customers” of the IRS is strange. The IRS is not a business with customers.
Is there any business in the private sector that could jail you and seize your private property for not using their services and giving them money?
visions on May 17, 2013 at 1:19 PM
Is Congress permitted to Waterboard witnesses to get a truthful answer to the question asked?
meci on May 17, 2013 at 1:20 PM
A customer is someone who voluntarily comes to you for a mutual exchange of good or valuable consideration. The IRS seizes property at the point of a gun. I’m not your damn customer, pal, and I want you to be a federal prisoner.
RadClown on May 17, 2013 at 1:24 PM
Really, the “customer service” term says all you need to know.
We really and truly have lost the concept of government of and by the people. I totally agree with shutting it down. This is insane.
ORconservative on May 17, 2013 at 1:26 PM
Time for decimination of the IRS (yes, in the military sense)
One out of ten employees from the division are fired at random. Only those that come clean will be spared.
blammm on May 17, 2013 at 1:28 PM
You want to know how deeply the IRS lies? They send people to prison who figure out that filing tax returns are completely voluntary according to Treasury Department regulations and the IRS Manual. In fact, the IRS does more than lie. They ruin honest peoples’ lives. THAT’s what they do. The good news: if you know how to fight ‘em, they back off. Trust me.
HiJack on May 17, 2013 at 1:30 PM
Like when Sarah Palin talked about some House Democrats “targeted” for defeat.
But unlike Sarah Palin, whose political opinions are well-known, the IRS is supposed to be a politically neutral agency which collects taxes according to the laws voted by Congress.
Since the Tea Party, Patriot, and other conservative groups supported Republicans over Democrats, weren’t they “targeted” in the Sarah Palin sense?
Customer service? A customer is a person who buys something of value from a seller. What has the IRS ever sold to us for our taxes? If the IRS wasn’t a government agency with the power to collect taxes, no one would buy anything from the IRS!!!
This is not “horrible customer service”. This is coercive use of government power for political purposes.
Exit question for Steven Miller: Who told you and the IRS to do this?
Steve Z on May 17, 2013 at 1:32 PM
OK,
So, this Miller was the goong the Clintons sent to audit Judical Watch back in the 1980′s.
So, I smell revenge on Obama on this by the Clintons.
If true, this would be huge imnsho.
APACHEWHOKNOWS on May 17, 2013 at 1:32 PM
Gotta wonder: was Jim Crow just a matter of horrible customer service?
matt curtis on May 17, 2013 at 1:33 PM
dictatorship
secret police
state controlled media
and more
who the hell will stand up for The United States?
losarkos on May 17, 2013 at 1:34 PM
What a day for HA to be broken…
d1carter on May 17, 2013 at 1:34 PM
Is it still America?
Schadenfreude on May 17, 2013 at 1:36 PM
Washington Examiner May 14, 2013 by Paul Bedard
Deja vu: IRS boss of Tea Party probes targeted anti-Clinton groups in 1990′s..
connections
APACHEWHOKNOWS on May 17, 2013 at 1:38 PM
This is the Orwellian Newspeak of the Obama Administration. Like taxpayer subsidies to the Solyndras and Fisker Karmas of the world are “investments” in clean, green energy. With a rate of return of negative 100%.
If we the “customers” of the IRS are the coerced “investors” in Solyndra et al. and Obama’s wonderful windmills and choo-choo trains, WE DEMAND OUR DIVIDENDS!!! NOW!!!
Steve Z on May 17, 2013 at 1:43 PM
I guess it depends on our definition of “America”, but as far as I’m concerned it hasn’t been America for a long…long…time.
HiJack on May 17, 2013 at 1:43 PM
So who was the plant at the ABA conference, that asked Lerner about targeting certain groups?
Was this a member of the media – willing to play along? Or some political hack, that just slipped in to ask the question?
Hill60 on May 17, 2013 at 1:50 PM
This – make it go around, a million times over.
Schadenfreude on May 17, 2013 at 1:51 PM
This might sound familiar to you: Back in the USSR
What we have now discovered about Barack Obama and Eric Holder’s America, if we didn’t already know it, is that any belief in a benign and decent government in this country is absolute horseshit. Liberalism has been revealed as a fascist joke.
slickwillie2001 on May 17, 2013 at 2:19 PM
APACHEWHOKNOWS on May 17, 2013 at 1:17 PM
http://washingtonexaminer.com/irs-boss-of-tea-party-probes-targeted-anti-clinton-group-in-1990s/article/2529533
I asked FNC to check it out since the hearning didn’t address it.
amr on May 17, 2013 at 2:24 PM
Lighter moment???!!! Yous gotta be kidding me. False analogy.
CUSTOMERS, in this case, do not have a choice of not patronizing their provided service.
Sir Napsalot on May 17, 2013 at 2:25 PM
I’ve been a government employee before. This is a failure of management. Rank-and-file IRS agents know exactly what they’re supposed to do and not supposed to do. They would not have done this without directives, I don’t care what the numbers say about party affiliation. This rot goes deep.
alwaysfiredup on May 17, 2013 at 2:51 PM
NYT: Official Says Treasury Dept. Knew of I.R.S. Inquiry in 2012
Resist We Much on May 17, 2013 at 3:19 PM
Every time I see a photo of Steve Miller I always think about this episode form the Three Stooges (hint: tarantula)
OxyCon on May 17, 2013 at 3:39 PM
You know who else had bad customer service?
Kermit Gosnell.
myiq2xu on May 17, 2013 at 4:41 PM
Tea Party
Just thought I would use fowl words on the internet….
APACHEWHOKNOWS on May 17, 2013 at 5:26 PM
More “horrible customer service” from Democrats.
Random Numbers (Brian Epps) on May 18, 2013 at 1:10 AM