Beyond “traditional” marriage … to traditional values

posted at 4:16 pm on September 16, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

I’ve known Steven Crowder for a few years now, and he’s a regular on my daily Internet show — providing laughs, a sharp perspective, and no small measure of controversial statements, just as he does in his videos and Fox News appearances.  Steven’s an outspoken Christian, and argues for living life by those values for the purpose of being authentically Christian, as well as being an example to the world.  Needless to say, Steven gets a lot of criticism for his perspective and his arguments, but he has not yet been deflected from his principles.

A few years ago at CPAC, I met Steven’s then-girlfriend and now wife, a lovely young woman who is (as all wives are, as my own wife will attest) far too good for her husband, but she married Steven anyway three weeks ago.  We wanted to attend the wedding, since we had the honor of knowing them and even taking them out for breakfast the day after their engagement — joined by Dana and Chris Loesch, actually — but my back surgery kept me grounded.  We missed one heck of a party, but as Steven writes, we missed a very special wedding, too.  Steven and his wife insisted on a courtship and wedding based on their Christian values, and on Friday Steven took a hilarious victory lap in his column for Fox News.

Be sure to read it all, but the most interesting part of the column came from this anecdote that puts their effort into serious perspective:

As my wife (again, still not used to that) and I ate breakfast at a local inn, we discussed how excited we were to start the rest of our lives together, how scary it was that everything was now so different. At the same time, we overheard the table next to us discussing their very own wedding from the night prior. What a coincidence!

“The thing is, nothing’s really changed,” the bride said.

Puzzled, my wife asked, “Did you get married last night too? So did we!”

“Congratulations!” the other dame said. “Yeah we did, just last night.”

“Where’s the groom?” my wife innocently… scratch that, naively asked.

“Oh, he’s sleeping. There was no way he was coming out with me this morning!” She paused and smirked. “Let’s just say that he’s got a lingering headache from a really good time last night.”

My heart sank. Firstly, that poor schmuck’s “good time” was simply getting snookered. Not enjoying the company of close family and long-lost friends with a clear head and clean conscience, not staring in awe at his beautiful new wife, wanting to soak in every glimmer of her eyes as she shot him heart-racing looks from across the dance floor, not taking all of the cheesy pictures as they cut the cake, not even carrying her across that suite threshold as they nervously anticipated their “nightcap.” He probably won’t remember any of it. Instead, he got smashed. He was “that guy”… at his own freaking wedding.

Then I realized something. Our wedding was truly a once in a lifetime event. It was a God’s-honest celebration of two completely separate lives now becoming one. Physically, emotionally, financially and spiritually, everything that made us who we were individually was becoming what bonded us together. Our family traveled from far and wide to celebrate the decision of two young people to truly commit themselves to each other, and selflessly give themselves to one another in a way that they never had before that very night.

The people next to us that morning? Well, theirs was just one big party.  And the morning after? Just another hangover.

Our “weddings” were the same event in name only. They know it, and we know it.

It’s not easy to always live your life according to your religious principles.  I’ve been tested many times, and I’ve failed more often than I’d like to admit outside of a confessional.  There are moments that count more than most others, though, where faith and resolve get severely tested, and eventually one discovers that prayer is absolutely essential for the strength needed to prevail.  I know Steven and his wife are a prayerful couple, and I know that gave them strength for their journey.

I find this an intriguing column, not just because Steven’s a good friend and the column was funny.  In some states, including my own, we’re debating the legal definition of marriage, which is a fair debate over a government policy that should be resolved by the people and not a judge in a courtroom.  But we should set aside the politics from time to time to reflect on the institution of matrimony and the path that leads us there.  Does giving in to the temptations of the world help or hinder us?  Should we not be cheering the Crowders for walking the narrow path and giving testimony to their values, or is it easier to cheer those who stumble because it lets us off the hook for our own shortcomings?  And what is lost to us in that transaction that the Crowders have found?  It’s easy to laugh at the virgins and the committed Christians for being hopelessly unhip and square, but perhaps not so easy to see how those kind of values clarify the other issues under debate.


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Nice post Ed. Congrats to the Crowders. Too often people who profess to be a Christian have allowed the world to influence their Christianity not their faith influencing the world. Tolerance for sin is not what we are supposed to do as followers of Christ. We have tolerated the sins of abortion and now gay marriage and so much more for much too long. We are in this world but not of it.

crosshugger on September 16, 2012 at 6:18 PM

42 years with lots of ups and downs but still going strong.

We’ve seen so many pack it in an go the divorce route only
to repeat the mistakes over and over. I would guess well
over half our friends split. Most looking for that greener
patch of grass that’s right in front of them.

Texyank on September 16, 2012 at 6:19 PM

The answer is that Crowder, and his wife, made their choice. And good for them,

Everyone should be free to make their choice. That’s what liberty is all about.

dmataconis on September 16, 2012 at 6:20 PM

Oops ! ! Sorry Steven.

Forgot to congrat the Crowders. : )

Texyank on September 16, 2012 at 6:20 PM

Celebrated 31 years of monogamous marriage this year. We were both virgins when we got married. Wouldn’t want it any other way. I have no desire to “experiment” or wander. We’ve been through a lot–we’re both creative people and have struggled with depression. But God has been faithful as we have been faithful, and we are still together. Both of us have siblings who got married after getting pregnant, then wound up divorced later. And then there’s the sibling who has been pregnant several times by several different men, and now her grown up children are repeating her mistakes.

It may not be the only way people wind up getting married, but I think it’s the best way to ensure a lasting marriage.

theotherone on September 16, 2012 at 6:23 PM

Everyone should be free to make their choice. That’s what liberty is all about.

dmataconis on September 16, 2012 at 6:20 PM

They should also be free to pay for their own mistakes and that isn’t happening. Others are required to pick up the tab for out of wedlock mothers, divorced women, foodstamps, makework jobs supplied by the government, children growing up in dysfunctional circumstances and men who are just fine with X-box and a bachelor pad, not putting much effort into contributing to a society that won’t rewards that effort.

sharrukin on September 16, 2012 at 6:26 PM

One wonders, if he could ever be convinced that non-virgins who marry are happy would it destroy his happiness in his own marriage?

libfreeordie on September 16, 2012 at 4:26 PM

Who the hell cares.

Go RBNY on September 16, 2012 at 5:25 PM

I hope he and his wife will always have the benefit of knowing that they trusted God and thereby founded their marriage on some rock. It might help them later, just remembering that. They “sought God early,” and maybe that will give them an inertia other people don’t have.

Separately, a few people on the thread seem to be feeling that little “huffy twang” inside — for lack of a better phrase — or something. :) So, they got this annoyingly right. Go get one right yourself. Don’t worry — they will get lots wrong too — everything is OK. Shrug the huff. Stretch out your twang.

Axe on September 16, 2012 at 6:28 PM

Shrug the huff. Stretch out your twang.

Axe on September 16, 2012 at 6:28 PM

Sometimes I feel like you and I speak different languages…. o_O

cynccook on September 16, 2012 at 6:34 PM

Clearly, for this guy, this marriage isn’t just about joining with his life, its about imagining that everyone is miserable. One wonders, if he could ever be convinced that non-virgins who marry are happy would it destroy his happiness in his own marriage?

libfreeordie on September 16, 2012 at 4:26 PM

Unlike leftists, liveasaslaveanddie, Crowder’s happiness is not dependent or based on other people’s misery or unhappiness.
Leftists, however, depend on other people’s misery in order to try to validate and spread their own ideology.

Solaratov on September 16, 2012 at 6:37 PM

We did it right.

Our wedding was perfect. Our wedding night was nothing short of amazing. I write this on a plane heading into a tropical paradise with the most beautiful woman to have walked the planet earth.

Feeling judged? I couldn’t care less. You know why? Because my wife and I were judged all throughout our relationship. People laughed, scoffed and poked fun at the young, celibate, naive Christian couple.

We’d certainly never make it to the wedding without schtupping, and if we did, our “wedding night would be awkward and terrible,” they said.

Turns out that people couldn’t have been more wrong. Looking back, I think that the women saying those things felt like the floozies they ultimately were, and the men, with their fickle manhood tied to their pathetic sexual conquests, felt threatened.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/09/14/staying-celibate-before-marriage-was-best-thing-ive-ever-done/#ixzz26fubi3Gp

Axe on September 16, 2012 at 6:38 PM

Very sad.

sheryl on September 16, 2012 at 5:53 PM

You sure are.

Bmore on September 16, 2012 at 6:39 PM

bluegill on September 16, 2012 at 6:14 PM

No one gives a rats ass what your opinion of anything is. Get a life. Bread Ball?

Bmore on September 16, 2012 at 6:41 PM

It may not be the only way people wind up getting married, but I think it’s the best way to ensure a lasting marriage.

theotherone on September 16, 2012 at 6:23 PM

Totally respect others’ decisions to refrain from sex before marriage and would never want to put them down for it. I particularly admire how they can stick to their principles in the face of popular culture that ridicules them and wants to make them feel silly about their choices.

At the same time I would just point out that gaining sexual experience with more than one person can also have its advantages. Having a better understanding of one’s own sexual preferences can help ensure that a potential spouse is someone you’d be sexually compatible with.

bluegill on September 16, 2012 at 6:43 PM

sheryl on September 16, 2012 at 5:53 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syV2LkGpQB0

Solaratov on September 16, 2012 at 6:43 PM

o_O

cynccook on September 16, 2012 at 6:34 PM

I get that a lot. :)

Please trust that the people that get me need getting and probably couldn’t be gotten any other way. At least, that’s what I tell myself.

You felt no huffy twang, you see.

Axe on September 16, 2012 at 6:45 PM

For Believers, no explanation is necessary. Congratulations to Steven and his bride!

kingsjester on September 16, 2012 at 6:46 PM

can’t speak for men but I have never met a woman who wishes that she had started having sex earlier and had had more partners. I’m sure they are out there but I don’t know any of them.

Cindy Munford on September 16, 2012 at 5:28 PM

Amen! I grew up in a household that we were put on birth control as soon as we were 14(my mom got pregnant at 14). When I met my husband, I was not a virgin-he was. 21 happy years of marriage and that is still one of my greatest regrets in life.

melle1228 on September 16, 2012 at 6:46 PM

bluegill on September 16, 2012 at 6:14 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syV2LkGpQB0

Solaratov on September 16, 2012 at 6:46 PM

Unlike leftists, liveasaslaveanddie, Crowder’s happiness is not dependent or based on other people’s misery or unhappiness.
Leftists, however, depend on other people’s misery in order to try to validate and spread their own ideology.
Solaratov on September 16, 2012 at 6:37 PM

You know, sometimes you just have to admit when someone like libfreeordie makes a good point and does it in a respectful way. There wasn’t anything partisan or political in his/her comment.

bluegill on September 16, 2012 at 6:47 PM

Rational Thought on September 16, 2012 at 5:49 PM

I’m writing that down.

Cindy Munford on September 16, 2012 at 6:47 PM

I totally agree with Sheryl, libfreeordie and Kim Roy. Disappointing that Crowder has to try to put down others (or what he imagines others are like) as he holds up himself on some higher plane. His snide, self-superior, mocking tone is just awful. As soon as he called the other groom “a poor schmuck” I knew where it was going. You can almost imagine Crowder and his wife snickering and mocking the groom privately between themselves at breakfast while pretending to be so sweet in front of the other bride. Fake, fake, fake. Blech. I wonder what that other couple would think if they read how Crowder puts them down here as a way to say how great he thinks he is. Crowder seems like the type of two-faced person who would pretend to be your friend and then make fun of you behind your back.

bluegill on September 16, 2012 at 6:14 PM

On second thought……………..
http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/youare

Solaratov on September 16, 2012 at 6:49 PM

At the same time I would just point out that gaining sexual experience with more than one person can also have its advantages. Having a better understanding of one’s own sexual preferences can help ensure that a potential spouse is someone you’d be sexually compatible with.

bluegill on September 16, 2012 at 6:43 PM

What the heck does that silly nonsense even mean?

Unless the plumbing is radically different in other parts of the country how exactly would you not be sexually compatible?

If you are gay or lesbian then maybe heterosexual marriage isn’t for you? Of course a lot of us haven’t gone that extra exploratory step, so how could we ever know unless we have?

sharrukin on September 16, 2012 at 6:50 PM

I appreciate and respect his waiting to have sex.

I dislike his wanton superiority complex over the other groom who had fun and drank. Perhaps the man got caught up in happiness and had too much wine.

Arrogant really

blatantblue on September 16, 2012 at 6:50 PM

In the headline version of this story earlier, I commented:

I saw this linked via Twitter, and I’m glad it made it on HotAir… but it’s almost rolled out of the headlines, and deserves its own front-page article.

ITguy on September 16, 2012 at 1:55 PM

I just came back online after having been offline for several hours, and saw this featured as a story on the main blog. Thank you, Ed!

ITguy on September 16, 2012 at 6:53 PM

You can almost imagine Crowder and his wife snickering and mocking the groom privately between themselves at breakfast while pretending to be so sweet in front of the other bride. Fake, fake, fake. Blech. I wonder what that other couple would think if they read how Crowder puts them down here as a way to say how great he thinks he is. Crowder seems like the type of two-faced person who would pretend to be your friend and then make fun of you behind your back.

bluegill on September 16, 2012 at 6:14 PM

What kind of Bs is this. Maybe he did EXACTLY what he said he did-he reflected on how wonderful and special his wedding was.

melle1228 on September 16, 2012 at 6:53 PM

bluegill on September 16, 2012 at 6:43 PM

Well you are entitled to your opinion. My wife and I got married as virgins at the age of 19 forty one years ago. Sexual compatibility was something that we have joyfully developed in the course of are marriage. So in my opinion the whole meme of sexual compatibility is bogus.

chemman on September 16, 2012 at 6:54 PM

We did it right.

Our wedding was perfect. Our wedding night was nothing short of amazing. I write this on a plane heading into a tropical paradise with the most beautiful woman to have walked the planet earth.

Feeling judged? I couldn’t care less. You know why? Because my wife and I were judged all throughout our relationship. People laughed, scoffed and poked fun at the young, celibate, naive Christian couple.

We’d certainly never make it to the wedding without schtupping, and if we did, our “wedding night would be awkward and terrible,” they said.

Turns out that people couldn’t have been more wrong. Looking back, I think that the women saying those things felt like the floozies they ultimately were, and the men, with their fickle manhood tied to their pathetic sexual conquests, felt threatened.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/09/14/staying-celibate-before-marriage-was-best-thing-ive-ever-done/#ixzz26fubi3Gp

Axe on September 16, 2012 at 6:38 PM

Wow. That’s some nasty, angry stuff. Hope it works out for him because he has so much invested in it.

I recall the time when Amy Schumer (sp?) gave him a hard time on Red Eye about his choice. Didn’t agree with her then and I don’t agree with him here.

Yikes.

kim roy on September 16, 2012 at 6:54 PM

So interesting that some people can’t just be happy for the Crowders–but it kinda proves the point of what he was saying. If you read the full article, you’ll see why he feels justified in taking this victory lap: because so many people have judged him for making the choice he did.

And seriously, that’s been my experience, too. These days, there is so much judgment aimed at people who decide to wait until marriage. Virgins are mocked relentlessly and accused of being “not normal” or of having “something wrong” with them.

So, yeah–when people tell you again and again and again that you can’t succeed at something or that you’re weird for believing like you do or that you’ll regret not doing something and then the situation works out as beautifully for you as you had hoped, you are entitled to rejoice.

And while I’m on this subject…I’ve never had to wonder if I’m pregnant. I’ve never had to wonder if I had an STD. Break-ups are sad and difficult but not devastating–and frankly, having standards weeds out the men who just want to use you for one thing. There’s no downside to waiting.

Yay, Crowders.

P.S. If the highlight of your wedding night is getting so drunk that you can’t drag yourself out of bed the next morning for breakfast with the person you just promised to spend the rest of your life with–that does seem to indicate that the experience was lacking in meaning to you…just another party.

butterflies and puppies on September 16, 2012 at 6:55 PM

I dislike his wanton superiority complex over the other groom who had fun and drank. Perhaps the man got caught up in happiness and had too much wine.

Arrogant really

blatantblue on September 16, 2012 at 6:50 PM

Wait until you are engaged and then ask your fiancee if it would be okay for you to get pie-faced and pass out on your wedding night and then spend the first day of your new lives together either still sleeping it off or staggering around hung over, sick and irritable.

cynccook on September 16, 2012 at 6:55 PM

I appreciate and respect his waiting to have sex.

I dislike his wanton superiority complex over the other groom who had fun and drank. Perhaps the man got caught up in happiness and had too much wine.

Arrogant really

blatantblue on September 16, 2012 at 6:50 PM

It’s good to know arrogance bothers you, blatantblue.

squint on September 16, 2012 at 6:57 PM

At the same time I would just point out that gaining sexual experience with more than one person can also have its advantages. Having a better understanding of one’s own sexual preferences can help ensure that a potential spouse is someone you’d be sexually compatible with.

bluegill on September 16, 2012 at 6:43 PM

It’s plausible, but beyond the possibility that’s it’s true, I have no reason to believe that it’s true. And the Bible, cover to cover, argues against it vehemently.

Axe on September 16, 2012 at 6:57 PM

. Sexual compatibility was something that we have joyfully developed in the course of are marriage. So in my opinion the whole meme of sexual compatibility is bogus.

chemman on September 16, 2012 at 6:54 PM

Congratulations to you both! I giggle when people think that having multiple sex partners will somehow give you a leg up in marriage. As I said earlier, my husband was a virgin and I was not when we married 21 years ago. Needless to say, my husband made up for lost time. Our sex life is still wonderful BECAUSE we are intimate and communicate not because of multiple tryout sessions before we got married.

melle1228 on September 16, 2012 at 6:59 PM

You can almost imagine Crowder and his wife snickering and mocking the groom privately between themselves at breakfast while pretending to be so sweet in front of the other bride. Fake, fake, fake. Blech. I wonder what that other couple would think if they read how Crowder puts them down here as a way to say how great he thinks he is. Crowder seems like the type of two-faced person who would pretend to be your friend and then make fun of you behind your back.

bluegill on September 16, 2012 at 6:14 PM

Hmmm…you said..”can almost imagine…” “I wonder…””Crowder seems like…”

Do you realize you may be projecting just a bit?
Are you sure it’s not about you? Because if it’s not, it certainly sounds like it.

Actually it sounds like either projection or sour grapes or jealousy or regret from all the posters you mentioned.

Deanna on September 16, 2012 at 7:02 PM

From an old married couple, who wish they had honored their love for each other in the same way, to Mr. and Mrs. Crowder:

Congratulations and God Bless you.

P.S. You two look so beautiful together.

ansonia on September 16, 2012 at 7:04 PM

none of anyone’s business!

Pragmatic on September 16, 2012 at 7:05 PM

I get that a lot. :)

Please trust that the people that get me need getting and probably couldn’t be gotten any other way. At least, that’s what I tell myself.

You felt no huffy twang, you see.

Axe on September 16, 2012 at 6:45 PM

How can I know if I did or not when I don’t even know what you’re talking about!?!

cynccook on September 16, 2012 at 7:07 PM

What’s really a shame is a culture that promotes the constant drumbeat that your doing it wrong! The path that this couple picked was very important to them and they succeeded. Why that bothers some people here or anywhere else is a mystery.

Cindy Munford on September 16, 2012 at 7:08 PM

Do you realize you may be projecting just a bit?
Are you sure it’s not about you? Because if it’s not, it certainly sounds like it.

Actually it sounds like either projection or sour grapes or jealousy or regret from all the posters you mentioned.

Deanna on September 16, 2012 at 7:02 PM

With liberals, it’s always about them.
In the end, it’s always about them.

Malignant narcisism defined.

squint on September 16, 2012 at 7:08 PM

Stephen,

Sincerest congratulations to you and your bride.

You are an example to others, an effective role model through your choice to hold principle above appetite. You should be, and are, saluted for your stand.

Having been a U.S. Sailor for 21 years, I had the misfortune to cross paths with some fairly crude individuals who were less than sympathetic to a Christian lifestyle. One such “shipmate” walked up to me cold, and asked me if I remembered what I was wearing when I lost my virginity. Just as I was about to tell him to mind his own business, it occurred to me that the truth would be more fun, so I showed him my wedding ring. He nearly choked in disbelief, but never bothered me again. That is, until he was in trouble and needed someone to talk to that wouldn’t laugh at him.

You keep being that person, Steven, and thank you for what you do.

Freelancer on September 16, 2012 at 7:09 PM

blatantblue on September 16, 2012 at 6:50 PM

You assume much in your statement.

1. Maybe Crowder was behaving in a superior manner then again maybe not.
2. Maybe the other husband had fun getting blitzed then again maybe not.

We just don’t know. From my wedding night experience alcohol couldn’t have come close to providing the bliss.

chemman on September 16, 2012 at 7:09 PM

You can almost imagine Crowder and his wife snickering and mocking the groom privately between themselves at breakfast while pretending to be so sweet in front of the other bride. Fake, fake, fake. Blech. I wonder what that other couple would think if they read how Crowder puts them down here as a way to say how great he thinks he is. Crowder seems like the type of two-faced person who would pretend to be your friend and then make fun of you behind your back.

bluegill on September 16, 2012 at 6:14 PM

Some of the best projection I have witnessed here.

tom daschle concerned on September 16, 2012 at 7:09 PM

none of anyone’s business!

Pragmatic on September 16, 2012 at 7:05 PM

Am inclined to agree with that.

a capella on September 16, 2012 at 7:09 PM

Deanna on September 16, 2012 at 7:02 PM

Amen, Sister!!

Cindy Munford on September 16, 2012 at 7:09 PM

If you see condescension or arrogance in what Crowder wrote, it is your own black soul confessing to the world.

tom daschle concerned on September 16, 2012 at 7:11 PM

Hmmm…you said..”can almost imagine…” “I wonder…””Crowder seems like…”

Deanna on September 16, 2012 at 7:02 PM

Yep. It’s called commenting on an article. You know, providing reactions and opinions. Sort of the point of these little boxes down here.

bluegill on September 16, 2012 at 7:11 PM

What a fabulous column, Ed. You and Steven have much in common: your respect for your wife comes through loud and clear and so does Steven’s (along with the heady exuberance of a newlywed, in Steven’s case).

Grace_is_sufficient on September 16, 2012 at 7:12 PM

kim roy on September 16, 2012 at 6:54 PM

re. Cocky arrogance. :)

I’m just skipping past it, personally. He does seem cocky and arrogant (to me). I’d hate to take away an obvious win, from his point of view, and his choice to do a little stomping around in public as an example that it can be done, just because Crowder has a personality with more than a little brahma bull in it. Setting strict calender years aside, it just seems young.

I also have this weird suspicion — crazy, really — that a good fraction of the heat he’s taking would still be there, even if he waxed old-school English and published a humble, quiet, reserved “Christian testimony” of some kind.

As far as arguing about whether it helps or hurts his witness, the way he’s going about it — Meh. My house is made of too much glass.

Axe on September 16, 2012 at 7:14 PM

I didn’t wait til marriage, but the man I lost my virginity to is the man I married (and the only man I’ve been intimate with), and we are about to celebrate 25 years. A true partnership and my husband is seriuosly my rock…I’ve been through a LOT this past year and I could not have made it without him. I’ve always found it sad that kids think they have to sleep around at such a young age. An ex friend of my 18 year old lost her virginity at 16, and she’s been a bit of a lost soul ever since. Having said all of that, I do think Mr. Crowder is a bit too in-your-face with his talk of the other “poor schmuck” groom, and seems to be trying too hard to convince everyone that he did it right.

ellifint on September 16, 2012 at 7:15 PM

cynccook on September 16, 2012 at 6:55 PM

Maybe he wasn’t irritable.

Maybe he got up and they had a lovely day after that.

Maybe crowder has no idea what he’s talking about and should celebrate his own marriage without shitting on someone else’s.

Someone he knows nothing of, mind you.

I would never ridicule someone for abstinent. However the rest of the piece is such horseshit

blatantblue on September 16, 2012 at 7:15 PM

ellifint on September 16, 2012 at 7:15 PM

Spiking the football, if you will

blatantblue on September 16, 2012 at 7:17 PM

Great post, Ed. Always great to hear about young people championing traditional values. I was raised Mormon where the practice of celibacy until marriage is commonplace.

Reading the comments here, I can understand why some people took offense at Crowder’s so-called gloating. I don’t think any of us can judge who is happier — those of us who waited, or those who didn’t.

But what breaks my heart is when I hear that two people are living together and want to get married but don’t think they can afford the wedding.

I think we’ve just lost so much of the meaning of marriage. And to that end, Crowder reminds us all that it’s not about throwing an expensive party — it’s about making a selfless committment. Nothing could be more simple and profound than that.

Nicole Coulter on September 16, 2012 at 7:18 PM

Hey bluegill,

An alternative consideration for you. In the experience of my wife, there is no better lover than me, and in my experience, none better than her. Simply because there is no point of comparison, nobody else’s abilities to measure up against. She’s happy, I’m happy, and there’s no shadow of someone else sharing our intimate time.

Aside from that, there’s this. “Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and His righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you…”

When you surrender to God’s will for your life, he will guide you to the right person. The person who fits with you in every way. You don’t have to spend an important part of your life “shopping” among prospects, or “getting experiences” that far more often that not bring more shame than joy to most people.

You have it your way, I’ll have it God’s way.

Now quote one word of Steven’s commentary which purports that he is “better” than someone else. That is always the sour grapes cry of someone who knows they have made terrible mistakes in their life, when faced with someone who chose principle first. He isn’t mocking the other couple, he is pitying them. His statement is exactly correct that their “big day” was made far less special by their behaviors and choices, and Steven’s was made far more special by theirs. He is comparing the sense of joy and wonder felt, not the people feeling them. Every single one of us is equally capable of giving in to base appetites. None of us is better or worse. Some choices are better, and produce greater happiness. This is what you hate, because you have sold that happiness, and sold it cheap.

Freelancer on September 16, 2012 at 7:20 PM

Maybe crowder has no idea what he’s talking about and should celebrate his own marriage without shitting on someone else’s.

Someone he knows nothing of, mind you.

I would never ridicule someone for abstinent. However the rest of the piece is such horseshit

blatantblue on September 16, 2012 at 7:15 PM

Now, now…no need for arrogance.

squint on September 16, 2012 at 7:20 PM

Wait until you are engaged and then ask your fiancee if it would be okay for you to get pie-faced and pass out on your wedding night and then spend the first day of your new lives together either still sleeping it off or staggering around hung over, sick and irritable.

cynccook on September 16, 2012 at 6:55 PM

The absent groom may have a headache for multiple reasons. Most couples are exhausted following the wedding. Months of planning, big expenses, multiple vendors, in-law expectations, etc. The couple can relax alone on their honeymoon. The wedding can end up being more about entertaining all your guests, some of whom you may not see again.

dedalus on September 16, 2012 at 7:21 PM

bluegill on September 16, 2012 at 6:14 PM

You are the most contemptuous poster on this site.

MadisonConservative on September 16, 2012 at 7:23 PM

The absent groom may have a headache for multiple reasons. Most couples are exhausted following the wedding. Months of planning, big expenses, multiple vendors, in-law expectations, etc. The couple can relax alone on their honeymoon. The wedding can end up being more about entertaining all your guests, some of whom you may not see again.

dedalus on September 16, 2012 at 7:21 PM

Riiight. I’ll bet he was all stressed-out over the wedding plans. Sure.

cynccook on September 16, 2012 at 7:24 PM

kim roy on September 16, 2012 at 6:54 PM

re. Cocky arrogance. :)

I’m just skipping past it, personally. He does seem cocky and arrogant (to me). I’d hate to take away an obvious win, from his point of view, and his choice to do a little stomping around in public as an example that it can be done, just because Crowder has a personality with more than a little brahma bull in it. Setting strict calender years aside, it just seems young.

I also have this weird suspicion — crazy, really — that a good fraction of the heat he’s taking would still be there, even if he waxed old-school English and published a humble, quiet, reserved “Christian testimony” of some kind.

As far as arguing about whether it helps or hurts his witness, the way he’s going about it — Meh. My house is made of too much glass.

Axe on September 16, 2012 at 7:14 PM

I don’t see that. I see anger. Some of it justified, of course, but to insult a group of people wholesale, a lot of them who supported him (as I did) because our decisions were different.

I wish him the best, but it seems like he’s more interested in proving people wrong than being at peace. He has a lovely wife that he adores and who adores him. He’s won. Time to stop being angry.

And yes, he does seem young. ;)

kim roy on September 16, 2012 at 7:24 PM

squint on September 16, 2012 at 7:20 PM

Pointing out the flaws in his argument doesn’t make one arrogant

blatantblue on September 16, 2012 at 7:24 PM

I like Crowder, but he is wayyyy too preachy on this kind of crap. My wife and I “shacked up” for many years, and now we’re married. The result was that we worked out most of the early-marriage-years crap when we weren’t married. We did it not because we were supposed to, but because we wanted to be together that bad. By the time marriage came around, it was more a party than a commitment, because the commitment was already set in stone.

Not to say that others should necessarily follow our example, but I think the notions about “shacking up” should be thrown out the goddamned window. If you work through hard times, fights, and issues without the obligation of marital vows, marriage will possibly be a lot easier.

MadisonConservative on September 16, 2012 at 7:24 PM

http://hotair.com/archives/2010/09/23/quotes-of-the-day-462/

Why is any voicing of this decision seen as condensation and arrogance but not being abstinent is seen as totally a righteous choice? Is it like reformed smokers? No the world must all be like thee!

Cindy Munford on September 16, 2012 at 7:25 PM

You are the most contemptuous poster on this site.

MadisonConservative on September 16, 2012 at 7:23 PM

But it’s okay when bluegill is judgmental — it’s only annoying when other people are.

cynccook on September 16, 2012 at 7:25 PM

squint on September 16, 2012 at 7:20 PM

Pointing out the flaws in his argument doesn’t make one arrogant

blatantblue on September 16, 2012 at 7:24 PM

That sword cuts both ways, friend.

squint on September 16, 2012 at 7:26 PM

Freelancer on September 16, 2012 at 7:20 PM

^

Axe on September 16, 2012 at 7:26 PM

squint on September 16, 2012 at 7:26

Enough from the pointless peanut gallery.

Steven had a beautiful bride. He’s a good guy. Glad they waited. Most people can’t.

However he should step off the high horse vis a vis the other couple. Doesn’t reflect well upon him, and takes away from everything else he was trying to explain.

blatantblue on September 16, 2012 at 7:28 PM

I also have this weird suspicion — crazy, really — that a good fraction of the heat he’s taking would still be there, even if he waxed old-school English and published a humble, quiet, reserved “Christian testimony” of some kind.

Axe on September 16, 2012 at 7:14 PM

You make very good points. I haven’t seen what kind of reaction the article is getting, but the fact that even I (as someone who admires people who remain virgins until marriage and who hates to see pop culture ridicule such people) cringed while reading Crowder’s piece tells me that the reaction from others less inclined to respect Crowder’s choices is not going to be good.

Crowder is definitely giving Christians a bad name here by offering up an almost perfect example of a snide, unlikeable, holier-than-thou, self-superior caricature that is so easy to rail against. His judgemental tone totally detracts from what could have been a beautiful message. How can he complain about having been mocked for staying a virgin when he calls women sexist terms like “floozies” because they were sexually active before getting married? Someone needs to remind Stephen that two wrongs dont make a right.

bluegill on September 16, 2012 at 7:29 PM

Why is any voicing of this decision seen as condensation and arrogance but not being abstinent is seen as totally a righteous choice? Is it like reformed smokers? No the world must all be like thee!

Cindy Munford on September 16, 2012 at 7:25 PM

I think that people get irritable when they read something that reminds them of the mistakes they have made in their own lives. They have to criticize the other persons’ choices in order to justify their own. It’s really kind of pathetic which is why I feel sorry for these people rather than being annoyed by them. A normal reaction would be ‘Awww, I’m happy for those kids, even if they did things differently from the way I did,‘ not ‘Steven Crowder’s choices are different from the ones I made and therefore infuriate me.’ That’s nuts.

cynccook on September 16, 2012 at 7:30 PM

http://hotair.com/archives/2010/09/23/quotes-of-the-day-462/

Why is any voicing of this decision seen as condensation and arrogance but not being abstinent is seen as totally a righteous choice? Is it like reformed smokers? No the world must all be like thee!

Cindy Munford on September 16, 2012 at 7:25 PM

People who follow a moral code are seen as implicitly condemning those who fail to follow that code. That is no small part of why so many express a hostility towards Christianity, and conservatism in general.

sharrukin on September 16, 2012 at 7:30 PM

You are the most contemptuous poster on this site.

MadisonConservative

Irony alert!

lostmotherland on September 16, 2012 at 7:30 PM

MadisonConservative on September 16, 2012 at 7:24 PM

When you are dealing with two people, there is no magic right way. I know a couple who have lived together for over ten years and are now contemplating divorce after just over a year of marriage. How in the world does that happen? But my best friend did what the Crowders did and are going on 40 years and totally love each other. But I wouldn’t say either path will have the same outcome. I don’t read preachy in this anymore than anyone else who had a plan and has stuck to and so far (three weeks in) things are pretty darn skippy.

Cindy Munford on September 16, 2012 at 7:31 PM

sharrukin on September 16, 2012 at 7:30 PM

Except Muslims! Their code must be held in the highest esteem.

Cindy Munford on September 16, 2012 at 7:32 PM

Enough from the pointless peanut gallery.

Steven had a beautiful bride. He’s a good guy. Glad they waited. Most people can’t.

However he should step off the high horse vis a vis the other couple. Doesn’t reflect well upon him, and takes away from everything else he was trying to explain.

blatantblue on September 16, 2012 at 7:28 PM

No, most of us understood well what he was trying to explain; it’s only a vocal few who have reacted with misdirected anger at what he said, and that doesn’t reflect well on them.

squint on September 16, 2012 at 7:34 PM

Except Muslims! Their code must be held in the highest esteem.

Cindy Munford on September 16, 2012 at 7:32 PM

They hate the west and are therefore given the same pass the communists were given.

sharrukin on September 16, 2012 at 7:34 PM

squint on September 16, 2012 at 7:34 PM

Well by all means give me the education I require.

blatantblue on September 16, 2012 at 7:35 PM

Crowder is definitely giving Christians a bad name here by offering up an almost perfect example of a snide, unlikeable, holier-than-thou, self-superior caricature that is so easy to rail against. His judgemental tone totally detracts from what could have been a beautiful message. How can he complain about having been mocked for staying a virgin when he calls women sexist terms like “floozies” because they were sexually active before getting married? Someone needs to remind Stephen that two wrongs dont make a right.

bluegill on September 16, 2012 at 7:29 PM

People get this wrong all the time but the fact is that being a Christian does not mean that one waives one’s right to call out others’ bad behavior. Promiscuity is bad. It. Just. Is. And Crowder is not setting up a double standard, either. He remained chaste before marriage, too, just like his fiancee. You obviously have no idea how much ridicule, disdain and mockery he was treated with for having the courage to admit publicly that he was waiting for marriage. As Ed said, this is his “victory lap.” If you don’t like it, you don’t have to read about it.

cynccook on September 16, 2012 at 7:37 PM

What I see in this article is an attitude of gratitude, that this groom had the grace to wait and so did this bride. Because regardless of the wedding and the party and the gifts, this truly was a ONE TIME happening. One’s virginity can only be given once.

It is a blessing to be able to follow God’s will and we can’t do it on our own without grace. But, to receive that grace we have to be open to it, so we need a heart open to God’s love.

This couple trusted in God and waited, and God has provided as He promised. May He continue to bless them.

Now, I am proud to admit that though neither of us was a virgin when we met and married, my husband and I committed to each other the rest of our lives 31 years ago.

On our wedding night my husband said to me, “You are not my first, but you are my last” and I believe him to be still faithful to that vow, just as I have been.

Sometimes, it is not always finding Mr Right, it is working it out with the one you chose.

Jvette on September 16, 2012 at 7:37 PM

Remember kids, don’t, in a moment of happiness, drink too much at your own wedding.

Steven Crowder will frown at you.

blatantblue on September 16, 2012 at 7:37 PM

Well by all means give me the education I require.

blatantblue on September 16, 2012 at 7:35 PM

The essay isn’t called I Accuse and its not about you.

sharrukin on September 16, 2012 at 7:37 PM

squint on September 16, 2012 at 7:34 PM

Well by all means give me the education I require.

blatantblue on September 16, 2012 at 7:35 PM

Nah, the pointless peanut gallery doesn’t consider itself arrogant enough to believe it can achieve that goal.

squint on September 16, 2012 at 7:38 PM

“bluegill on September 16, 2012 at 6:14 PM”

Thanks bluegill.

Crowder’s article was steeped in vainty and too much pride, it left a bad impression on what should’ve been a nice story.

Crowder’s cockiness didn’t work in this article.

sheryl on September 16, 2012 at 7:38 PM

I think that people get irritable when they read something that reminds them of the mistakes they have made in their own lives.

twang.

They have to criticize the other persons’ choices in order to justify their own.

huffy.

cynccook on September 16, 2012 at 7:30 PM

:)

Axe on September 16, 2012 at 7:39 PM

lostmotherland on September 16, 2012 at 7:30 PM

That might have hurt my feewings…if I’d ever seen you post before.

MadisonConservative on September 16, 2012 at 7:41 PM

squint on September 16, 2012 at 7:38

Nothin to say?

blatantblue on September 16, 2012 at 7:43 PM

The essay isn’t called I Accuse and its not about you.

sharrukin on September 16, 2012 at 7:37 PM

We don’t watch broadcast television or cable in our house. We were discussing this once with another couple whose children had long been grown and married and the first thing that the wife said was “I guess I was a bad mother because I let my kids watch TV then, right?” My husband and I were shocked because never in a million years did it occur to us that the way we were choosing to raise our children had ANYTHING to do with her children who were actually in the 30′s by then, but that’s the only way this lady could see things. Whatever was on the table either validated her choices or repudiated her choices — it was somehow all about her and her crushing insecurities.

cynccook on September 16, 2012 at 7:43 PM

:)

Axe on September 16, 2012 at 7:39 PM

LOL You are a funny dude.

cynccook on September 16, 2012 at 7:44 PM

To all those that think Crowder is coming off as judgemental and inferring that his experience is superior to others. . .

There is nothing in the tone of this article that I don’t see regularly in magazine and news publications. The difference is that it is coming from the conservative point of view rather than a liberal, do-what-you-feel-like point of view.

So the logical conclusion is that we have to jump all over the guy and read into what he wrote as if he is attacking everyone’s way of life. It is just an article about his experience. If you can’t accept it as that, than go buy Cosmo.

earlgrey133 on September 16, 2012 at 7:44 PM

The essay isn’t called I Accuse and its not about you.

sharrukin on September 16, 2012 at 7:37 PM

lol

Axe on September 16, 2012 at 7:45 PM

Remember kids, don’t, in a moment of happiness, drink too much at your own wedding.

Steven Crowder will frown at you.

blatantblue on September 16, 2012 at 7:37 PM

Also, the groomsmen may pants you and leave you sleeping in the lobby of the hotel. Either way, I guess you were asking for it and your new wife will have been forewarned about how you express yourself when ‘happy.’

cynccook on September 16, 2012 at 7:46 PM

squint on September 16, 2012 at 7:38

Nothin to say?

blatantblue on September 16, 2012 at 7:43 PM

Oh sorry! I thought my answer was an answer, but apparently you did not. Let me reiterate: I’m not gonna bother. Educating you is not my job. Also, I have a dinner plans for later and don’t have the time.

squint on September 16, 2012 at 7:47 PM

You obviously have no idea how much ridicule, disdain and mockery he was treated with for having the courage to admit publicly that he was waiting for marriage. As Ed said, this is his “victory lap.” If you don’t like it, you don’t have to read about it.

cynccook on September 16, 2012 at 7:37 PM

A victory lap should be one of reveling in the moment and one of gratitude for what was won, not to angrily disparage a whole other subset of people, many of whom were supporters of your position.

As a supporter I read it hoping to see happiness and what I saw was anger. Unfortunately, I can’t unread it. Now I just feel sad because all it should be about is the lovely woman he married, not that he “won”.

kim roy on September 16, 2012 at 7:47 PM

Cindy Munford on September 16, 2012 at 7:31 PM

It’s the overbearing patina of “this makes me better than you”. Crowder is a good guy, but he’s pious. It turns off a lot of people, especially coming from someone as young as Crowder. I’m glad he’s finding success as a conservative comedian and pundit, but he’s beginning to act a bit like Meghan McCain in his self-righteous attitude. The guy is still young, still learning, as are we all.

MadisonConservative on September 16, 2012 at 7:48 PM

No, most of us understood well what he was trying to explain; it’s only a vocal few who have reacted with misdirected anger at what he said, and that doesn’t reflect well on them.squint on September 16, 2012 at 7:34 PM

Maybe not. I’ve been married to the same woman since August, 1963, which makes me kind of an old guy. In that time, I’ve observed that karma has a way of sneaking up on people who may be a bit too full 0f themselves. I wish Crowder and his bride a long successful marriage…it will be a bit embarrassing if that turns out to be not the case. Best not to tempt the fates, especially in public.

a capella on September 16, 2012 at 7:48 PM

That might have hurt my feewings…if I’d ever seen you post before and if I had feewings.

MadisonConservative on September 16, 2012 at 7:41 PM

cynccook on September 16, 2012 at 7:49 PM

cynccook on September 16, 2012 at 7:46 PM

assuming things about couples we don’t know and writing pieces about it on major news sites should be considered serious commentary. Right

blatantblue on September 16, 2012 at 7:49 PM

As a supporter I read it hoping to see happiness and what I saw was anger. Unfortunately, I can’t unread it. Now I just feel sad because all it should be about is the lovely woman he married, not that he “won”.

kim roy on September 16, 2012 at 7:47 PM

You are entitled to be as irrational as you like, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with pointing out that being too hungover for breakfast on the first day of your married life is screwed up.

cynccook on September 16, 2012 at 7:51 PM

We don’t watch broadcast television or cable in our house. We were discussing this once with another couple whose children had long been grown and married and the first thing that the wife said was “I guess I was a bad mother because I let my kids watch TV then, right?” My husband and I were shocked because never in a million years did it occur to us that the way we were choosing to raise our children had ANYTHING to do with her children who were actually in the 30′s by then, but that’s the only way this lady could see things. Whatever was on the table either validated her choices or repudiated her choices — it was somehow all about her and her crushing insecurities.

cynccook on September 16, 2012 at 7:43 PM

In some ways there is a certain truth to that reaction. Not that you ever meant it that way, but as a society we have to have basic mores that generally apply or there really is no such thing as society. We have such a jumble of differing moralities competing in the public square.

In schools virgins are mocked, ridiculed and pressured to have sex. There is no getting around the basic human drive to conform and any alternate choices are seen as a threat to that conformity.

I ran into the same thing in a less dramatic way when I got rid of my TV. The reactions were of a strangely negative moral tone.

sharrukin on September 16, 2012 at 7:52 PM

I think that people get irritable when they read something that reminds them of the mistakes they have made in their own lives.
twang.

They have to criticize the other persons’ choices in order to justify their own.
huffy.

cynccook on September 16, 2012 at 7:30 PM
:)

Axe on September 16, 2012 at 7:39 PM

Crowder assumes that the woman in the inn as made a mistake in her life because she doesn’t make the same. BTW how does he know she wasn’t a virgin too?

So true, Crowder definitely has to criticize in order to make himself feel superior.

sheryl on September 16, 2012 at 7:52 PM

cynccook on September 16, 2012 at 7:49 PM

I have feelings, dammit! Anger, disgust, disbelief…

MadisonConservative on September 16, 2012 at 7:53 PM

Maybe not. I’ve been married to the same woman since August, 1963, which makes me kind of an old guy. In that time, I’ve observed that karma has a way of sneaking up on people who may be a bit too full 0f themselves. I wish Crowder and his bride a long successful marriage…it will be a bit embarrassing if that turns out to be not the case. Best not to tempt the fates, especially in public.

a capella on September 16, 2012 at 7:48 PM

I see what you did there. Nice!

squint on September 16, 2012 at 7:53 PM

The guy is still young, still learning, as are we all.

MadisonConservative on September 16, 2012 at 7:48 PM

I know I am.

Cindy Munford on September 16, 2012 at 7:54 PM

assuming things about couples we don’t know and writing pieces about it on major news sites should be considered serious commentary. Right

blatantblue on September 16, 2012 at 7:49 PM

Did you read the whole article? Because only a small portion of it mentioned their encounter with the woman from the other wedding.

cynccook on September 16, 2012 at 7:55 PM

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