Interior moves to develop solar on public lands; environmentalists doth protest

posted at 3:21 pm on September 13, 2012 by Erika Johnsen

To begin: There are multiple different types of people who fall under the category of “environmentalists.” There are the vaguely green-loving, usually urban-dwelling, smugly ‘hip’ types who accept the latest eco-trends (like electric cars and hemp grocery bags and wind energy) as automatic wisdom from on high without doing any research or critical thinking of their own; there are the grungy, hardcore, sometimes borderline violent activists just looking for something to believe in who get just a little too involved in their chosen environmental groups; and then there are the rent-seeking, power-mongering, lobbying, crony-corporatist types who’ve realized that the western world’s governments’ various decisions to prop up politically-favored technologies (usually in order to appeal to voters of the first environmental-ilk I mentioned) presents a major opportunity, among others. I don’t have any doubt that there are plenty of greenies who honestly want to make the world a better, cleaner place (and I’m all for any type of renewable energy that can survive the test of free-market competition, huzzah!), and I’m sure that there are many scientists, academics, and environmental groups with the best of intentions. But there’s plenty about the mainstream environmental movement that teaches people how to not think for themselves — and don’t make the mistake of thinking that it’s somehow nobler and more immune from politics than other industries, ’cause there’s plenty of money to be had in it.

The Obama administration has catered to and courted this large tent of environmental voters with their various Energy Department loan-guarantee programs and their arbitrary emissions standards, and I’ve made no secret of my disdain for the Department of Interior, as their bureaucracy’s many inefficiencies, oversights, and backwards policies are single-handedly responsible for a huge heap of environmental degradation. In particular, it’s pretty galling that the Interior Department under Obama has steadily denied a whole mess of permits for oil-and-gas drilling on federal land to private-sector, productive-jobs-providing companies who’d like to do so, but willingly put aside millions of acres of federal (i.e., our) land to allow for the development of government-sponsored solar farms. Human Events reports, however, that at least some environmentalists aren’t actually too keen on that idea:

But several environmental groups led by the Western Lands Project (WLP) filed a protest with the Interior Department on Aug. 24 calling the plan “deficient,” citing evidence they say suggests that disturbing the soil will release greenhouse gases into the atmosphere.

“No scientific evidence has been presented to support the claim that these projects reduce greenhouse emissions,” the WLP said. “Indeed, recent evidence suggests that the opposite may be true. Recent work at the Center for Conservation Biology, University of California, Riverside, suggests that soil disturbance from large-scale solar development may disrupt Pleistocene-era caliche deposits that release carbon to the atmosphere when exposed to the elements,” negating any solar development gains. …

“By converting public lands to industrial energy factories in fragile, remote areas with massive requirements for transmission at great cost to ratepayers and the environment, our renewable energy policy is taking the least enlightened path possible, while attempting to create the illusion of innovation and progress,” WLP said.

Sorry, Interior — you can’t please ‘em all. But this is the very problem with the federal government picking winners and losers in the energy market and controlling so many of our assets: The government can’t possibly predict all of the neighborhood effects that will come as a result of their policies, and because of their political goals, they don’t usually care to try. When something doesn’t work, the policy is spared the quick death of free-market competition and instead allowed to live on in entrenched, bureaucratized folly — and in this case, the environment is the cost. Oh, the tangled webs we weave, when first we practice to centrally plan!

To conclude: There is another type of environmentalist I’ve yet to mention. I’m always bemused when, after telling my friends that they should rethink the ostensible wisdom of recycling, they give me dagger-eyes worthy of my having suggested something downright perfidious — because you’d be hard pressed to find someone more crunchy and outdoorsy and planet-lovin’ than myself. I just happen to think that free enterprise, efficiency and innovation born of competition, and private property can do more for the environment in the long run than big government — works every time.


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Right on, Ed!

Capitalism rocks!

Sasha List on September 13, 2012 at 3:26 PM

They are happy with the juice coming out of their walls, duh.

Schadenfreude on September 13, 2012 at 3:26 PM

Sasha List on September 13, 2012 at 3:26 PM

Er, Erika

Schadenfreude on September 13, 2012 at 3:26 PM

…wonder who’s going to pay?

KOOLAID2 on September 13, 2012 at 3:26 PM

Oh, BISHOP!! (First time!)

Sasha List on September 13, 2012 at 3:26 PM

…wonder who’s going to pay?

KOOLAID2 on September 13, 2012 at 3:26 PM

Bernanke. Didn’t you know hat money just gets printed – QE3 is now official, no more debt to the Chinese. Get with the new program.

Schadenfreude on September 13, 2012 at 3:28 PM

Sasha List on September 13, 2012 at 3:26 PM

Er, Erika

Schadenfreude on September 13, 2012 at 3:26 PM

My apologies to Erika! I was too excited about Bishop!

Sasha List on September 13, 2012 at 3:28 PM

Well if the Donks can recycle dead people to vote then what is the harm of Interior doing what it can because they are “looking out for us”?

Limerick on September 13, 2012 at 3:28 PM

My apologies to Erika! I was too excited about Bishop!

Sasha List on September 13, 2012 at 3:28 PM

Erika will forgive you. Bishop won’t.

Schadenfreude on September 13, 2012 at 3:29 PM

This is just stupid beyond words. As it says in an article I read…

http://piqscore.com/2012/06/one-natural-resource-well-never-run-out-of-misinformation/

… are we supposed to believe a landscape covered with solar panels (that perform miserably) is any more visually appealing than one with oil rigs (that perform wonderfully?)

VastRightWingConspirator on September 13, 2012 at 3:30 PM

Right on, Ed!

Capitalism rocks!

Sasha List on September 13, 2012 at 3:26 PM

…ED?…Erika Johnson…check your privates please!

KOOLAID2 on September 13, 2012 at 3:30 PM

Erika will forgive you. Bishop won’t.

Schadenfreude on September 13, 2012 at 3:29 PM

oh no…………):

Sasha List on September 13, 2012 at 3:30 PM

Kinda like the CTU/Rahm battle… I’m rooting for mutually assured destruction.

mankai on September 13, 2012 at 3:31 PM

FYI several projects have been in the pipeline for 2 to 3 years, they are not about to be stopped. Many are already at 60% design and beyond.

Get used to seeing acres of panels and mirrors on your future drives in our west.

Difficultas_Est_Imperium on September 13, 2012 at 3:32 PM

IT DOESNT WORK. This is a waste of opportunity and wealth.

tom daschle concerned on September 13, 2012 at 3:32 PM

Does this mean that squirrles across the country can no longer bury their nuts ?
Releases CO2 you know.

Jabberwock on September 13, 2012 at 3:33 PM

Green groups in a pissing contest with governmental green policies…….I like it!

antipc on September 13, 2012 at 3:33 PM

I know that I personally can’t stand it when someone tries to disrupt Pleistocene-era caliche deposits.

Flange on September 13, 2012 at 3:33 PM

The picture – those panels look like empty seats and the hoax looks emasculated.

Schadenfreude on September 13, 2012 at 3:33 PM

Interior moves to develop solar on public lands; environmentalists doth protest

We all belong to the Government now, shut up that’s why. Look a squirrel… —>

War is coming to the Middle East.

SWalker on September 13, 2012 at 3:34 PM

Erika will forgive you. Bishop won’t.

Schadenfreude on September 13, 2012 at 3:29 PM

My humble apology to Bishop for not living up to his high standards! I guess I did an 0dumbo instead………..FAIL! :’(

Sasha List on September 13, 2012 at 3:34 PM

My apologies to Erika! I was too excited about Bishop!

Sasha List on September 13, 2012 at 3:28 PM

It’s your big day.

Now get out.

Bishop on September 13, 2012 at 3:34 PM

This is what awesome is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsYMJcfpGyI

**content warning**

mattshu on September 13, 2012 at 3:34 PM

Don’t you just love it when they argue both sides !

Lucano on September 13, 2012 at 3:36 PM

Environmentalists also have a basic hostility to modern life and see the west as morally wrong because we are wealthy, because we are successful. They believe in the idea of the mythical noble savage and want a return to a simpler more idyllic time. They see the savages who attack the west as more morally advanced and guardians of a secret wisdom that we are blind to. They want to destroy western culture and industry in a Utopian attempt to return to a past that never existed.

They want to see it all burn.

sharrukin on September 13, 2012 at 3:36 PM

Cat fight!

BuckeyeSam on September 13, 2012 at 3:38 PM

There is another type of “environmentalist”….the type that scare the shiite of you….that you pray will never end up living next door….that would have you calling the local asylum if they ever showed up on your property.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElJFYwRtrH4

Bishop on September 13, 2012 at 3:39 PM

OT: Shep Smith wringing his hands now about that YouTube video…it caused the whole thing. It could take down a country.

d1carter on September 13, 2012 at 3:39 PM

It’s your big day.

Now get out.

Bishop on September 13, 2012 at 3:34 PM

Warned you Sasha List…however, you should not apologize. Bishop is a teddy bear of a good guy.

Schadenfreude on September 13, 2012 at 3:40 PM

1+1=POTATO

No, you are completely wrong. 1+1=YELLOW.

No, both of you are wrong, 1+1=BEETLE.

Not a single answer to that equation from the left will be 2.

Not. A. Single. One.

jukin3 on September 13, 2012 at 3:41 PM

If digging up a few acres of dirt for a solar panel is going to push it into the negative for the greenies, I’m thinking it wasn’t too far into the positive to begin with. lol

uniclone on September 13, 2012 at 3:42 PM

Hmmm… this weekend I’ll try telling my wife that getting my butt off the couch to go outside and work will release greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. I’ll let you know how that works out.

Marcola on September 13, 2012 at 3:43 PM

Oh, those silly environmentalist cults. On the other hand, they can use some hard data from our friends over in Germany… y’know, the folks who invested billions in solar for what… a 0.3% increase in energy production?

I guess the DOI doesn’t have my resources at their disposal or the brains to use them. My mistake. (no sarc tag necessary)

Turtle317 on September 13, 2012 at 3:45 PM

George Carlin – Saving the Planet

Seven Percent Solution on September 13, 2012 at 3:45 PM

Hmmm… this weekend I’ll try telling my wife that getting my butt off the couch to go outside and work will release greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. I’ll let you know how that works out.

Marcola on September 13, 2012 at 3:43 PM

Not to brag, butt my husband can do that from the couch.

Sasha List on September 13, 2012 at 3:46 PM

This is nothing new.

Some years ago, there a was a court case between animal rights groups and some other environmentalists in the Washington/Oregon area.

The environmentalists wanted to set up a windmill farm, which was opposed by PETA types. The matter ended up in court, but it was years ago and I never learned the outcome. Not that I care, except for the comedy of it all.

It’s just like the ‘civil rights’ thing. The feminazis call civil rights, while many who were at Selma say, “Whoa! Wait a minute here!”

Same thing with liberal and especially radical gays.

Up next for ‘civil rights’ a la Dr. King (as they try to compare): Pedophiles.

This is the modern Left. they’re not just satisfied with a slice of the social pie, but they want a cut of everyone else’s, too.

Frankly, I’m amazed liberalism as we know has lasted this long.

Liam on September 13, 2012 at 3:47 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElJFYwRtrH4

Bishop on September 13, 2012 at 3:39 PM

That has got to be a spoof,…isn’t it?

a capella on September 13, 2012 at 3:47 PM

Bruce Nuclear Generating Station, North Americas largest nuclear power plant, sits on 3.5 square miles of land. It has a 7,000 megawatt peak capacity and a capacity factor of 91%.

The Gujurat Solar Project in India will be the worlds largest (if it ever gets built), covering 58 square miles with a peak capacity of 3,000 megawatts and a capacity factor of 19%.

If the Gujurat project were to match Bruce NPPs output, it would need to be expanded to cover roughly 650 square miles.

I am completely in favor of developing a post-fossil fuel economy. But there’s only one way to do it.

To sum up, the alternatives to fossil fuels are very, very few that could promise the magnitude of energy required to meet our nation’s need. It is not as though plentiful alternatives exist, and one can be weighed against another …

The blunt fact is that there are the fossil fuels and there is nuclear.

Failure to recognize this, while focusing on options that do not and cannot have the magnitudes [of supply] required, will inevitably lead to increasingly dangerous energy shortages. Who then will answer? Will [it be] the environmental activist, who blocks real options, and then puts forth options that cannot meet the need?
- Dr. Charles Till, Associate Director, Argonne National Laboratory

Liberals know this, but they don’t care. They know you can’t save the Earth by paving it. When encountering people who understand the science behind power generation, we get hysterical raaaaacist tirades from anti-nuclear zealots Harry Reid.

Alberta_Patriot on September 13, 2012 at 3:52 PM

Frankly, I’m amazed liberalism as we know has lasted this long.

Liam on September 13, 2012 at 3:47 PM

Came darn close to falling apart during 2008 primary.
Some of the “War on Women” theme is blow back from that fight.

Jabberwock on September 13, 2012 at 3:53 PM

That has got to be a spoof,…isn’t it?

a capella on September 13, 2012 at 3:47 PM

Oh no, they’re real. And creepy.

Bishop on September 13, 2012 at 3:53 PM

Environmentalists also have a basic hostility to modern life and see the west as morally wrong because we are wealthy, because we are successful. They believe in the idea of the mythical noble savage and want a return to a simpler more idyllic time.

sharrukin on September 13, 2012 at 3:36 PM

They’re not making a lot of native Americans happy, either.

And who cares about desert tortoises?

Turns out, Sierra Club does.

Environmentalist on environmentalist. This could turn out better than an Obama-Romney slap-fight.

de rigueur on September 13, 2012 at 3:58 PM

Oh no, they’re real. And creepy.

Bishop on September 13, 2012 at 3:53 PM

It’s a good thing that most of the trees in North America will outlive them.

Jabberwock on September 13, 2012 at 3:59 PM

NONE of our energy should come from using land that we can use for crops or grazing. ALL green sh*t is from above the ground. Wind and solar and biofuels.

We NEED the land for other uses.

We’re blessed with underground energy: coal, oil, natural gas so let’s use those!

MaggiePoo on September 13, 2012 at 3:59 PM

Hey, do they have to cut trees down to let the sun shine in, and build power lines to take the juice out? Think about all the horrible carbon dioxide those trees won’t be taking out of the air once they’re cut down!

Steve Z on September 13, 2012 at 4:00 PM

Sometimes you just have to say WTF??? Endangered Eyeless Spider Indefinitely Delays $15M Texas Highway Project

slickwillie2001 on September 13, 2012 at 4:01 PM

They’re not making a lot of native Americans happy, either.

And who cares about desert tortoises?

Turns out, Sierra Club does.

Environmentalist on environmentalist. This could turn out better than an Obama-Romney slap-fight.

de rigueur on September 13, 2012 at 3:58 PM

They are modern day Luddites. They want to see deindustrialization and have no clue what that would mean.

sharrukin on September 13, 2012 at 4:04 PM

“No scientific evidence has been presented to support the claim that these projects reduce greenhouse emissions

Who among us didn’t see this coming? Now that they have quasi won the battle against oil and gotten the government to buy into solar and wind projects by magic those are polluting also. They really want to take us back to the dark ages of wood and dung fires to heat and cook by.

chemman on September 13, 2012 at 4:07 PM

I foresee a very large black market for stolen solar panels in western states.

Wendya on September 13, 2012 at 4:08 PM

When are the eco-wackos going to realize that TREES on public land are far more efficient at capturing and converting sunlight into something useful than photocells will ever be.

Their blind, unreasoning and illogical hatred of coal keeps them trapped in a pretend world, where everything extracted by mining and/or touched by man is “pollution” ….except for photocells and windmills.

/irony>

landlines on September 13, 2012 at 4:09 PM

Sasha List on September 13, 2012 at 3:46 PM

We are talking about CO2 not CH4.

chemman on September 13, 2012 at 4:12 PM

Damned if you do… damned if you don’t.

Coal… too dirty.
Nuclear… too dangerous.
Wind… too many dead birds.
Solar… too unsightly.
Hydroelectric… too many dead fish.

Er, OK, what would you prefer?

Let’s face it, what the environmentalists are really opposed to is capitalism and American exceptionalism.

Hill60 on September 13, 2012 at 4:15 PM

Not to brag, butt my husband can do that from the couch.

Sasha List on September 13, 2012 at 3:46 PM

Not to brag… but yeh, it’s a guy thing. One of the few that I’m good at.

Hill60 on September 13, 2012 at 4:19 PM

What’s more disturbing is that these ecoweenies are more concerned with GHGs that destroying wilderness areas with solar farms.

William Teach on September 13, 2012 at 4:21 PM

I foresee a very large black market for stolen solar panels in western states.

Wendya on September 13, 2012 at 4:08 PM

Especially since Obama has imposed a 30%+ tariff on Chinese solar panels, and domestic manufacturers still can’t compete. Only thing left for the surviving Solyndras is to steal the Chinese panels from the arrays, then sell them back to the power companies at reduced prices.

de rigueur on September 13, 2012 at 4:22 PM

To sum up, the alternatives to fossil fuels are very, very few that could promise the magnitude of energy required to meet our nation’s need. – Dr. Charles Till, Associate Director, Argonne National Laboratory

Alberta_Patriot on September 13, 2012 at 3:52 PM

Plus, it’s really hard to run a jetliner on solar….

SailorMark on September 13, 2012 at 4:23 PM

…..although I am into wind power for boats.

SailorMark on September 13, 2012 at 4:25 PM

Frankly, I’m amazed liberalism as we know has lasted this long.

Liam on September 13, 2012 at 3:47 PM

Not me. If not for the Donks and their kin Cameros would be Fords and Volts be displayed next to Edsels.

Limerick on September 13, 2012 at 4:26 PM

“smugly ‘hip’ types who accept the latest eco-trends (like electric cars and hemp grocery bags and wind energy) as automatic wisdom from on high without doing any research or critical thinking of their own”

South Park ALERT … an outbreak of “SMUG”

J_Crater on September 13, 2012 at 4:32 PM

There are the vaguely green-loving, usually urban-dwelling, smugly ‘hip’ types who accept the latest eco-trends (like electric cars and hemp grocery bags and wind energy) as automatic wisdom from on high without doing any research or critical thinking of their own; there are the grungy, hardcore, sometimes borderline violent activists just looking for something to believe in who get just a little too involved in their chosen environmental groups; and then there are the rent-seeking, power-mongering, lobbying, crony-corporatist types who’ve realized that the western world’s governments’ various decisions to prop up politically-favored technologies (usually in order to appeal to voters of the first environmental-ilk I mentioned) presents a major opportunity, among others

Diagram this sentence for 10 points.

lorien1973 on September 13, 2012 at 4:33 PM

What’s more disturbing is that these ecoweenies are more concerned with GHGs that destroying wilderness areas with solar farms.

William Teach on September 13, 2012 at 4:21 PM

That is one of the things that makes my eyes bleed. They are literally willing to throw wildlife, even endangered animals, under the bus to build wind turbines and solar arrays to fight Satan’s gas–CO2. so many of them are so fixated on carbon that they lose sight of more important issues with doable solutions.

juliesa on September 13, 2012 at 4:33 PM

We’re blessed with underground energy: coal, oil, natural gas so let’s use those!

MaggiePoo on September 13, 2012 at 3:59 PM

Let’s not forget all mining. If it cannot be grown it must be mined.

Difficultas_Est_Imperium on September 13, 2012 at 4:36 PM

juliesa on September 13, 2012 at 4:33 PM

Practical doesn’t cut mustard. They have Solandra to use as a template. They were torpedoed by the right, dun’t ya know?

Limerick on September 13, 2012 at 4:36 PM

War is coming to the Middle East.

SWalker on September 13, 2012 at 3:34 PM

Coming? When has there NOT been war in the middle east?

Maybe we should just put a big cage around the middle east, line it with video cameras, and charge people to watch.
A perpetual cage match – the ultimate pay-per-view reality show.

dentarthurdent on September 13, 2012 at 4:40 PM

Look, it’s not about the environment. It’s about control and power. IMO, people who feel out of control in their own lives often seek to control the lives of others. It’s a power trip. That’s why many insist on lawfare, rather than working with business to find ways to increase profits AND protect the environment.

Christien on September 13, 2012 at 4:40 PM

If digging up a few acres of dirt for a solar panel is going to push it into the negative for the greenies, I’m thinking it wasn’t too far into the positive to begin with. lol

uniclone on September 13, 2012 at 3:42 PM

But that might be the home of some poor defenseless and possibly endangered ant, mouse, beetle, or bacteria…….

dentarthurdent on September 13, 2012 at 4:43 PM

…our renewable energy policy is taking the least enlightened path possible, while attempting to create the illusion of innovation and progress

And you just noticed this now?

Not really all that attentive are you?

gekkobear on September 13, 2012 at 4:44 PM

Maybe we should just put a big cage around the middle east, line it with video cameras, and charge people to watch.
A perpetual cage match – the ultimate pay-per-view reality show.

dentarthurdent on September 13, 2012 at 4:40 PM

Heyyyy – maybe this would work with the enviros as well. Propose a wind or solar farm somewhere, and put the opposing greenies in a cage to fight it out….. That might be a fun reality show to watch.

dentarthurdent on September 13, 2012 at 4:45 PM

Ducks Unlimited are the true Environmentalists. Fascist Eco-Marxist Watermelons are nothing of the sort.

rayra on September 13, 2012 at 4:45 PM

If something doesn’t work …
FULL SPEED AHEAD !!!

pambi on September 13, 2012 at 4:46 PM

which Obama super-donor/bundler is getting this next huge federal loan guarantee / contract to set up a phony solar energy company?

rayra on September 13, 2012 at 4:46 PM

That might be a fun reality show to watch.

dentarthurdent on September 13, 2012 at 4:45 PM

Pillow slaps? We have been trying not to laugh out loud since Nov 2000.

Limerick on September 13, 2012 at 4:47 PM

Interior moves to develop solar on public lands; environmentalists doth protest

To me, this shows that the radical tree-huggers and the Socialists are NOT one in the same. It only seems that way when they happen to have common goals-namely, having mankind (Westerners especially, Americans in particular) do with much, much less…and probably many less people to boot./

Dr. ZhivBlago on September 13, 2012 at 4:49 PM

Dr. ZhivBlago on September 13, 2012 at 4:49 PM

The left has never met eye to eye on anything, except bullpie recipes.

Limerick on September 13, 2012 at 4:50 PM

The left has never met eye to eye on anything, except bullpie recipes.

Limerick on September 13, 2012 at 4:50 PM

Historically, that’s been what’s kept them from taking over. Somewhere, somehow, they’ve become more unified. Scary.

BTW, I don’t know where that final slash came from-wasn’t being sarcastic.

Dr. ZhivBlago on September 13, 2012 at 4:56 PM

…wonder who’s going to pay?

KOOLAID2 on September 13, 2012 at 3:26 PM

Bernanke. Didn’t you know hat money just gets printed – QE3 is now official, no more debt to the Chinese. Get with the new program.

Schadenfreude on September 13, 2012 at 3:28 PM

It’s true. They need all the hat money they can get their hands on because their heads are just so darn big. These “big haids” need to be cut down to size.

NOMOBO on September 13, 2012 at 5:12 PM

Pillow slaps? We have been trying not to laugh out loud since Nov 2000.

Limerick on September 13, 2012 at 4:47 PM

I would actually expect a lot of hair-pulling, slapping, hurled insults about who hates Gaia more, red paint throwing, maybe some kicking….

dentarthurdent on September 13, 2012 at 5:12 PM

When Palin is running Interior, things are gonna be a whole lot different.

Odysseus on September 13, 2012 at 5:22 PM

Call Clooney.

Even most of you find GM’s Motorama horrible.

Anything bigger than a Jetta was a barge.

Well, GM is now in the hands of a greenie.

Unfortunately, the government’s grasp may change things in unexpected ways.

What kind of car did they drive in the Soviet Union, again? Oh heck, with real greenies in control, what car was typical (except for gov’t operators) in the film District 9

I want to see Hollywood sell the requisite asceticism. People will suffer for their idols and not just look for gripes.

After all the idea that 25% of the worlds population consumes over 85% of the wealth is too big a message for little indie films like The End of poverty? (2008)

IlikedAUH2O on September 13, 2012 at 5:52 PM

How many hundreds of billions in borrowing is this gonna cost us? Let’s just flip that national debt counter up to $17,000,000,000,000 right now to cover it.

stukinIL4now on September 13, 2012 at 5:59 PM

Hey Obozo, Nothing like getting… uh, er, ‘gored’ by your own bull, huh?

snort… snicker… Bwahahhahaha!

WestTexasBirdDog on September 13, 2012 at 7:48 PM

“No scientific evidence has been presented to support the claim that these projects reduce greenhouse emissions CO2 causes atmospheric temperatures to rise,” the WLP said.

Why not go ahead and say this?

I’ve been telling you about this for a while now, fellow Hot Arians.

This is why most environmental groups do what they do.

Badger40 on September 14, 2012 at 8:30 AM