Embassy protests spread to other “Arab Spring” nations

posted at 8:41 am on September 13, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

So how’s that Arab Spring working out for us?  After riots “spontaneously” erupted on the eleventh anniversary of 9/11 in Libya and Egypt, they spread overnight to two more Arab nations with recent populist uprisings.  In Yemen, where we’re trying to fight a particularly virulent branch of al-Qaeda, protestors surrounded the US embassy chanting “Death to America!”  Just as in Egypt, they breached the perimeter and burned the US flag, replacing it with an Islamist banner:

Chanting “death to America,” hundreds of protesters angered by an anti-Islam film stormed the U.S. Embassy compound in Yemen’s capital and burned the American flag on Thursday, the latest in a series of attacks on American diplomatic missions in the Middle East.

American missions have been attacked in three Arab nations – Yemen, Egypt and Libya – that have faced persistent unrest and are struggling to restore law and order after last year’s revolts deposed their authoritarian regimes.

Protesters smashed windows as they breached the embassy perimeter and reached the compound grounds, although they did not enter the main building housing the offices. Angry young men brought down the U.S. flag in the courtyard, burned it and replaced it with a black banner bearing Islam’s declaration of faith – “There is no God but Allah.”

Yemeni forces arrived and drove them out forty-five minutes later.  But that’s not the only US embassy that found itself under siege today.  Over in Tunisia, where hopes of liberalization after the so-called “Arab Spring” ran highest, Islamists nearly overran the gates of our still-open embassy:

Anti-American rioting spread yesterday to Tunisia, where police used tear gas to stop hundreds of protesters from storming the United States Embassy in protest over a film mocking the prophet Mohammed.

The throngs of demonstrators, who carried the white and black banners of militant Salifist Muslims, had been protesting peacefully in Tunis for hours when about 300 started to break through the gates.

The embassy remained open as police forced the protesters back.

Demonstrations continued in Cairo, and a flag-burning exercise took place in Gaza as well.

Yesterday I wrote that this looks like 1979 all over again.  Today, we’re seeing the same diplomatic impotence displayed in that awful year, and the inevitable result.  Thirty-three years ago, we got pushed out of the Persian Gulf; today, we’re getting pushed out of North Africa.  Three years ago, President Obama assured us that his speech in Cairo would change the world, and eighteen months ago gave himself credit for the Arab Spring by citing that very speech.  Ever since that speech took place, the American position has eroded in the Middle East, and it’s eroding rapidly now.  We may not be able to retain embassies in Tunisia, Libya, and Egypt any longer; we certainly can’t fly the flag above them securely at the moment.

We haven’t lost the Middle East yet, but that’s the direction we’re heading unless we start making our power felt, and fast.  That can’t just be gunboat diplomacy, but that will have to be a significant component of it.

Update: Looting our embassy in Yemen?


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Attacking a sovereign nation because they wouldn’t let us use their airspace is awesome?

I didn’t realize we were in charge of France, but look who’s taking the position of imperialism.

Dante on September 13, 2012 at 9:26 AM

Yes. France had no qualms about the attack, they just didn’t want to be officially involved for fear of Libyan retribution, in fact they provided much of the target intel of where to find Quadaffi.

It’s the equivalent of someone rooting for a bully to be taken behind the woodshed, just don’t ask them to throw a punch.

Bishop on September 13, 2012 at 9:31 AM

Looks like there’s some world class community organizing going on over there.

tj4osu on September 13, 2012 at 9:25 AM

LOL!

St Gaudens on September 13, 2012 at 9:33 AM

Yeah, cause then they’ll really really like us.

In Dante’s world, it’s always our fault.

Bitter Clinger on September 13, 2012 at 9:30 AM

I couldn’t care less if “they” (whoever “they” is) like us or not.

Dante on September 13, 2012 at 9:34 AM

Looks like there’s some world class community organizing going on over there.

tj4osu on September 13, 2012 at 9:25 AM

LOL!

St Gaudens on September 13, 2012 at 9:33 AM

Well yeah, look at how Chicago has been community organized. I think their murder rate is higher than Afghanistan’s.

Bishop on September 13, 2012 at 9:35 AM

It’s the equivalent of someone rooting for a bully to be taken behind the woodshed, just don’t ask them to throw a punch.

Bishop on September 13, 2012 at 9:31 AM

In your scenario, you are favoring the person rooting being punched as well, even though the person did not initiate force against you at all.

That’s pathetic.

Dante on September 13, 2012 at 9:35 AM

Another one of those terms thrown out by the left that is vaguely terrifying.

Bishop on September 13, 2012 at 9:28 AM

And you probably find hate speech laws terrifying. You know, those inane laws that prevent the KKK from expressing their true feelings toward blacks and Jews. Because free speech, according to some on the right, should have no practical bounds unless it involves something truly revolting, such as human sexuality.

bayam on September 13, 2012 at 9:36 AM

It excludes hate speech masquerading as something else.

bayam on September 13, 2012 at 9:31 AM

Got it. You get to decide what you think is hate speech and you get to determine if that speech should be protected. How very fascistic of you.

Trafalgar on September 13, 2012 at 9:36 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsQdeAeOEg4

Bishop on September 13, 2012 at 9:24 AM

Bishop:

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah,the sweet smell of MOAB,first thing in the
morning!!!

A-1 War Pron…..I heart you,haha!:)

canopfor on September 13, 2012 at 9:36 AM

I couldn’t care less if “they” (whoever “they” is) like us or not.

Dante on September 13, 2012 at 9:34 AM

Sounds like isolationism to me.

D-fusit on September 13, 2012 at 9:36 AM

It excludes hate speech masquerading as something else. This kind of crap undermines real and meaningful commentary like the Satanic Verses by portraying Western critiques of Islam as nothing more than hate speech.

bayam on September 13, 2012 at 9:31 AM

Cool. I guess we all just need to calibrate our “Hate Speech O’Meters” to your standard. I’m ready to sync mine.

St Gaudens on September 13, 2012 at 9:37 AM

Are the Trolls working in shifts again today?

kingsjester on September 13, 2012 at 9:37 AM

Dante wants us to use the ostrich form of dimplomacy. Stick our heads in the sand and do an Alfred E. Newman – What me worry!

Yeah, that will work.

D-fusit on September 13, 2012 at 9:29 AM

Not at all. I just want us to stop intervening militarily in the affairs of other nations. If we wish to sever diplomatic ties with some nations, that’s perfectly fine. As I’ve said, we should have a strong defense here at home where it belongs. That’s not sticking one’s head in the sand.

Dante on September 13, 2012 at 9:37 AM

Not sure, do we cut off all diplomatic ties to Germany to show those krauts who’s the bad arse? I say send John Bolton on a trip to Berlin to demand the Germans stop coddling terrorists.

bayam on September 13, 2012 at 9:25 AM

It’s not the “krauts” who are protesting, bigot. You aren’t very bright. Do you always throw in a totally stupid remark to change the subject, or are you just that dumb? John Bolton would never have allowed this situation to develop in the first place if he was in charge at State. And it also wouldn’t be happening if Obama and Biden hadn’t gone around the country shouting “Osama is dead, and GM is alive!” They caused this, they are responsible for the dead, the lack of security and the wimpy response.

Night Owl on September 13, 2012 at 9:37 AM

Anyone have the over/under on how long it takes the media-dem complex to blame these protests on Bush and who the first outlet will be to do so?

Harpazo on September 13, 2012 at 9:38 AM

[workingclass artist on September 13, 2012 at 9:10 AM]

As I said early yesterday, this has all the marks of a false flag operation, with the only argument against it being so, the length of time spent preparing it.

I doubt Bacile is even a Copt; his youtube page hints at him being Muslim. I’ll bet bottom dollar not one of his benefactors is Jewish and that includes Soros.

Dusty on September 13, 2012 at 9:38 AM

Sounds like isolationism to me.

D-fusit on September 13, 2012 at 9:36 AM

That’s because you don’t know the difference between isolationism and non-interventionism.

Dante on September 13, 2012 at 9:38 AM

John Bolton would never have allowed this situation to develop in the first place if he was in charge at State. And it also wouldn’t be happening if Obama and Biden hadn’t gone around the country shouting “Osama is dead, and GM is alive!” They caused this, they are responsible for the dead, the lack of security and the wimpy response.

Night Owl on September 13, 2012 at 9:37 AM

This.

Harpazo on September 13, 2012 at 9:38 AM

That’s pathetic.

Dante on September 13, 2012 at 9:35 AM

You have to stop digging your hole some time. Don’t you?

Being stupid is no way to go through life. The sooner you learn that, the better.

cozmo on September 13, 2012 at 9:39 AM

BTW, Michelle Malkin was awesome on Hannity last night. I got to watch the video via Twitter today. It was great.

PappyD61 on September 13, 2012 at 9:12 AM

Yes she was, and I TOTALLY related to her fury!

BettyRuth on September 13, 2012 at 9:18 AM

Wow, that was something. Just watched it at SarahNet:

http://www.sarahnet.net/sarahnet-news/7537-michelle-malk-hannity.html

I like her point that Obama isn’t mentioning anything like Islamic terrorism.

Also, notice Obama and Hillary both treat the Libyan murders as an isolated incident, not reflecting the people or the government of Libya. “Death to infidels” doesn’t ring a bell? To paraphrase James Carville, it’s Islamic terrorism, stupid.

Paul-Cincy on September 13, 2012 at 9:39 AM

DAnte, the US and the SOviets played geo-politics on a grand scale – if you weren’t playing you were losing. No choice. Our pulling of support did precipitate the 1979 crisis – and that is pretty much all on Carter though he had some lifer state dept help as well.

WE have never tried kill one of ours, kill 1000 of theirs. Not in our DNA although I understand the sentiment.

Buckeye – why don’t we just let Israel do what is necessary to protect herself, without us. We can get her the equipment to do the job – I think that she, unlike Europe who couldn’t defend itself from anyone, is more than capable.

Zomcon JEM on September 13, 2012 at 9:39 AM

Got it. You get to decide what you think is hate speech and you get to determine if that speech should be protected. How very fascistic of you.

Trafalgar on September 13, 2012 at 9:36 AM

It’s not fascism when they do it. /s

farsighted on September 13, 2012 at 9:39 AM

That’s because you don’t know the difference between isolationism and non-interventionism.

Dante on September 13, 2012 at 9:38 AM

You do a bang-up job conflating them.

Bitter Clinger on September 13, 2012 at 9:40 AM

Stop intervening in the affairs of other nations, close our embassies

Dante on September 13, 2012 at 9:13 AM

Our embassies have nothing to do with interventionism. You’ve gone way off the deep end, and are grasping at straws like you’re on cocaine.

MadisonConservative on September 13, 2012 at 9:41 AM

[workingclass artist on September 13, 2012 at 9:10 AM]

As I said early yesterday, this has all the marks of a false flag operation, with the only argument against it being so, the length of time spent preparing it.

I doubt Bacile is even a Copt; his youtube page hints at him being Muslim. I’ll bet bottom dollar not one of his benefactors is Jewish and that includes Soros.

Dusty on September 13, 2012 at 9:38 AM

Hmmmmm….

September 12, 2012

THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

THE WHITE HOUSE

Office of the Press Secretary

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

The President called Egyptian President Morsi today to review the strategic partnership between the United States and Egypt, and our ongoing efforts to strengthen bilateral economic and security cooperation. Given recent events, and consistent with our interest in a relationship based on mutual interests and mutual respect, President Obama underscored the importance of Egypt following through on its commitment to cooperate with the United States in securing U.S. diplomatic facilities and personnel. The President said that he rejects efforts to denigrate Islam, but underscored that there is never any justification for violence against innocents and acts that endanger American personnel and facilities. President Morsi expressed his condolences for the tragic loss of American life in Libya and emphasized that Egypt would honor its obligation to ensure the safety of American personnel.”

http://weaselzippers.us/2012/09/13/obama-calls-egypts-muslim-brotherhood-president-tells-him-he-rejects-effor

workingclass artist on September 13, 2012 at 9:42 AM

Our embassies have nothing to do with interventionism. You’ve gone way off the deep end, and are grasping at straws like you’re on cocaine.

MadisonConservative on September 13, 2012 at 9:41 AM

I don’t mean close all of our embassies, just the ones in Yemen, Egypt, Libya, Pakistan, etc.

Dante on September 13, 2012 at 9:42 AM

That’s because you don’t know the difference between isolationism and non-interventionism.

Dante on September 13, 2012 at 9:38 AM

Says the troll who wants to close our embassies, pull all our troops home and say FU to the world.

Fail, you are truly pathetic.

D-fusit on September 13, 2012 at 9:43 AM

Cool. I guess we all just need to calibrate our “Hate Speech O’Meters” to your standard. I’m ready to sync mine.

St Gaudens on September 13, 2012 at 9:37 AM

No, by all means, if you some jacka$$ films a man having sex with young children under the caption ‘Prophet Mohammad’, then you should defend it at all costs. It’s exactly how the Founding Fathers foresaw the US expressing itself in world affairs.

bayam on September 13, 2012 at 9:45 AM

Coming soon: Øbama, in a dramatic show of strength, bombs aspirin factory in Libyan desert.

petefrt on September 13, 2012 at 9:45 AM

If someone in the MidEast shot a film ‘Jesus does Blow Jobs’, I’d find it equally repulsive and inexcusable. The entire free speech argument has been blown far out of proportion in this case. It’s time to apply some common sense.

Except this already happens (P*ss Christ, Sh*t Mary) and Christians don’t go on a tantrum killing, burning, looting, and acting like animals.

Look, you either have free speech or you don’t. Freedom of Speech does not equal Freedom from Offence. If the Muslims don’t like the Mohammed film, don’t watch the f*ck*ng thing!!! I wouldn’t darken the doors of an art gallery that displayed “P*ss Christ,” but if there was a “P*ss Mohammed” you’d better believe that at the very least a) the gallery would be burnt down, and b) the artist would have a fatwa issued against him/her.

So which is it – do we have free speech, or do we repeal the First Ammendment in favor of outlawing certain protected classes because if we offend them they’ll start some mayhem? That’s not the country I want to live in.

And like others have said, the film wasn’t the cause. The flim was the excuse. It’s not a coincidence that these “protests” started on 9/11. This was planned. And if that film hadn’t happened, this would still be happening – there’d just be some other “offence” that triggered it off.

crazy_legs on September 13, 2012 at 9:45 AM

All those protesters in the ME are just practicing today.
After the Imams and Clerics get done with them at tomorrows morning prayersyou’ll be seeing the real deal.
Egypt’s MB has called for protests and the youth will oblige.
I can only hope that the MB can keep a lid on it.

Jabberwock on September 13, 2012 at 9:45 AM

Not at all. I just want us to stop intervening militarily in the affairs of other nations.

Dante on September 13, 2012 at 9:37 AM

You are aware, are you not, that the only US military intervention in Egypt is providing the the Egyptian government with $1.3 billion in military aid every year. They’re p!ssed at us because we give them money for their national defense?

Trafalgar on September 13, 2012 at 9:46 AM

Says the troll who wants to close our embassies, pull all our troops home and say FU to the world.

Fail, you are truly pathetic.

D-fusit on September 13, 2012 at 9:43 AM

No, just FU to certain countries. I want to maintain trade and diplomatic relations with the majority of countries. But yes, our troops belong here at home, protecting our borders, not on the other side of the world.

Dante on September 13, 2012 at 9:46 AM

Tim Roemer is on Fox News groveling about Obama & listing all his foreign policy accomplishments, Lol! Can you say defensive? What desperation from these obtuse people. I guess Obama’s going to have a more difficult time running as the foreign policy president now!

Susanboo on September 13, 2012 at 9:47 AM

In your scenario, you are favoring the person rooting being punched as well, even though the person did not initiate force against you at all.

That’s pathetic.

Dante on September 13, 2012 at 9:35 AM

Funny how the world works, huh? Expecting other people to do the dirty work of handling the bullies while putting yourself above the fray but still enjoying the end result.

Bishop on September 13, 2012 at 9:48 AM

You are aware, are you not, that the only US military intervention in Egypt is providing the the Egyptian government with $1.3 billion in military aid every year. They’re p!ssed at us because we give them money for their national defense?

Trafalgar on September 13, 2012 at 9:46 AM

“Providing” Egypt with money is not military interventionism. It’s wealth redistribution under the guise of foreign aid.

The reaction is not to our interventionism in Egypt, but in the greater Middle East over decades. Did you really think I was suggesting otherwise?

Dante on September 13, 2012 at 9:49 AM

No, by all means, if you some jacka$$ films a man having sex with young children under the caption ‘Prophet Mohammad’,

bayam on September 13, 2012 at 9:45 AM

Utter and complete fail! Anybody who understands the concept of freedom of speech understands that it is no longer free if it impacts the rights of others. There is no right not to be offended. There is however a right not to be raped.

Trafalgar on September 13, 2012 at 9:49 AM

Dante on September 13, 2012 at 9:13 AM

Dante, you can do better than that. How about going back to the 10th century crusades. That’s what really got them angry. It has nothing to do with their POS religion that teaches hatred and revenge. Idiot!

Deano1952 on September 13, 2012 at 9:50 AM

No, just FU to certain countries. I want to maintain trade and diplomatic relations with the majority of countries. But yes, our troops belong here at home, protecting our borders, not on the other side of the world.

Dante on September 13, 2012 at 9:46 AM

So the US foriegn ploicy gets to be decided by you, how quaint.

D-fusit on September 13, 2012 at 9:50 AM

No, by all means, if you some jacka$$ films a man having sex with young children under the caption ‘Prophet Mohammad’, then you should defend it at all costs. It’s exactly how the Founding Fathers foresaw the US expressing itself in world affairs.

bayam on September 13, 2012 at 9:45 AM

So when do we get to prosecute Bill Ayers and the OWS trash who took the time to desecrate the U.S. flag, because let me tell you sister, that pegged my outrage/lack of common sense meter.

What’s that? Freedom of what?

Bishop on September 13, 2012 at 9:51 AM

Cut em off, mow em down.

Bmore on September 13, 2012 at 9:52 AM

What was our Ambassador doing at an interim facility with no protection?

workingclass artist on September 13, 2012 at 9:18 AM

What were our planes doing parked wingtip-to-wingtip at Wheeler Field and our ammunition lockers doing padlocked at Pearl?

cane_loader on September 13, 2012 at 9:52 AM

From the “Arab Spring” to the “American Fall” (yes, pun intended) this Obama chap is doing a “smashing” job.

Onus on September 13, 2012 at 9:53 AM

What were our planes doing parked wingtip-to-wingtip at Wheeler Field and our ammunition lockers doing padlocked at Pearl?

cane_loader on September 13, 2012 at 9:52 AM

So they could be watched against saboteurs. Good logic, at the time. Or so they thought.

cozmo on September 13, 2012 at 9:54 AM

So the US foriegn ploicy gets to be decided by you, how quaint.

D-fusit on September 13, 2012 at 9:50 AM

You think it should be up to our overlords and not the soverign people who formed the union and who created and limited the powers of the federal government?

Dante on September 13, 2012 at 9:54 AM

He’s stealing all Jimmuh Carter’s material!

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2012/09/07/it_s_uncanny_obama_copied_jimmy_carter_s_convention_acceptance_speech_from_1980

http://washingtonexaminer.com/obama-echoes-carter-with-shoot-first-criticism-of-romney/article/2507863#.UFHOyo1lQ19

Our ship of state is completely rudderless and heading into the shoals.

Naturally Curly on September 13, 2012 at 9:54 AM

Cool. I guess we all just need to calibrate our “Hate Speech O’Meters” to your standard. I’m ready to sync mine.

St Gaudens on September 13, 2012 at 9:37 AM
No, by all means, if you some jacka$$ films a man having sex with young children under the caption ‘Prophet Mohammad’, then you should defend it at all costs. It’s exactly how the Founding Fathers foresaw the US expressing itself in world affairs.

bayam on September 13, 2012 at 9:45 AM

Right. So let’s all get on the same page with what is and what isn’t protected speech…

Anything that offends Muslims = Hate Speech
Anything that offends Christians = Protected Speech
Anything that offends Jews = Protected Speech
Anything that offends Liberals = Hate Speech and/or racism
Anything that offends bayam = Hate Speech

St Gaudens on September 13, 2012 at 9:54 AM

There is no such thing as Islamic democracy. The two terms are antithetical. Andy McCarthy explains the folly of the Arab Spring in this brief interview.
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/316723/andy-mccarthy-arab-spring-eliana-johnson

onlineanalyst on September 13, 2012 at 9:55 AM

Are the Trolls working in shifts again today?

kingsjester on September 13, 2012 at 9:37 AM

It’s a human wave assault, whistles and bugles and screaming. We have everything from bring all the troops home now to Mitt is responsible for the Crusades.

Bishop on September 13, 2012 at 9:55 AM

Dante on September 13, 2012 at 9:54 AM

Its a good thing you aren’t in charge, of anything.

cozmo on September 13, 2012 at 9:55 AM

So which is it – do we have free speech, or do we repeal the First Ammendment in favor of outlawing certain protected classes because if we offend them they’ll start some mayhem? That’s not the country I want to live in.

You fail to realize that there have ALWAYS been limitation on free speech in this country.
And I never suggested that free speech should be restricted or regulated in this case. I said that defending this idiot’s worthless film as some higher expression of speech is undeserving. A simplistic and craven attempt to express hatred toward another society or religion isn’t an expression of Western values or follow the example of how the Founding Fathers fostered the US image abroad.

bayam on September 13, 2012 at 9:56 AM

No, by all means, if you some jacka$$ films a man having sex with young children under the caption ‘Prophet Mohammad’, then you should defend it at all costs. It’s exactly how the Founding Fathers foresaw the US expressing itself in world affairs.

bayam on September 13, 2012 at 9:45 AM

You can’t defend your statement except to attack us for defending ALL speech. Your side is the one with the inflammatory rhetoric, your side is the one who creates “Pi$$ Christ” and other hateful, bigoted crap and calls it art, and then laugh at us for being “bitter clingers” when we object. We don’t kill you for it. You have nothing to offer but nihilism and hate. Go away.

Night Owl on September 13, 2012 at 9:57 AM

Bishop on September 13, 2012 at 9:55 AM

They’re trying everything they can to divert attenton to Obama’s responsibility for all this. Fortunately, the American people aren’t buying it.

kingsjester on September 13, 2012 at 9:57 AM

So they could be watched against saboteurs. Good logic, at the time. Or so they thought.

cozmo on September 13, 2012 at 9:54 AM

Correct.
I was making the broader point that micro security measures can defeat macro security needs. Given this administration’s mentality, I would not put it past them to have purposely kept the embassy as low-key and unprotected as possible, so as to make the locals feel welcomed and uninvaded.

cane_loader on September 13, 2012 at 9:58 AM

Hey folks, my Hot Gas decoder ring got lost in the mail. What is this “TFG” thing of which some speak, and why does it seem to be so closely guarded?

cane_loader on September 13, 2012 at 10:00 AM

Are the Trolls working in shifts again today?

kingsjester on September 13, 2012 at 9:37 AM

Seems that happens every day there is bad news for Obama or bad news for Romney.

farsighted on September 13, 2012 at 10:00 AM

Did you really think I was suggesting otherwise?

Dante on September 13, 2012 at 9:49 AM

Yes, that was precisely what you were suggesting, and you said so on another thread.

We cannot expect to meddle in the affairs of sovereign nations without suffering retaliation.

Dante on September 13, 2012 at 8:18 AM

Now, according to the latest version of your twisted logic, it has nothing to do with “sovereign nations” and attacks on our embassies in one country are justified because of military intervention in another. So, given recent incursions in Colombia by the Venezuelan military, you’d be ok with Norwegian students ransacking the Venezuelan embassy in Oslo and murdering the Venezuelan ambassador? Got it.

Trafalgar on September 13, 2012 at 10:00 AM

Yes, that was precisely what you were suggesting, and you said so on another thread.

Trafalgar on September 13, 2012 at 10:00 AM

No.

Dante on September 13, 2012 at 10:01 AM

Trafalgar on September 13, 2012 at 10:00 AM

Dante does nothing but blame America and play rhetorical games.

kingsjester on September 13, 2012 at 10:01 AM

I would not put it past them to have purposely kept the embassy as low-key and unprotected as possible, so as to make the locals feel welcomed and uninvaded.

cane_loader on September 13, 2012 at 9:58 AM

If that were the case, they would have to have accepted the risk they were taking. The risk was known, and already had historical precedence. In other words, they would have put those planes wingtip to wingtip knowing the Japanese fleet was nearby.

cozmo on September 13, 2012 at 10:02 AM

Dante does nothing but blame America and play rhetorical games.

kingsjester on September 13, 2012 at 10:01 AM

Attacking AQ cells marginalizes them. Would YOU like to feel marginalized? Misogynist.

Bishop on September 13, 2012 at 10:02 AM

Hey folks, my Hot Gas decoder ring got lost in the mail. What is this “TFG” thing of which some speak, and why does it seem to be so closely guarded?

cane_loader on September 13, 2012 at 10:00 AM

The First Gay President. Bishop then added an R in there, but I haven’t seen what that stands for. Bishop?

Night Owl on September 13, 2012 at 10:03 AM

Dante does nothing but blame America and play rhetorical games.

kingsjester on September 13, 2012 at 10:01 AM

Rhetorical games? More like non-nonsensical gibberish.

cozmo on September 13, 2012 at 10:03 AM

Anything that offends Muslims = Hate Speech
Anything that offends Christians = Protected Speech
Anything that offends Jews = Protected Speech
Anything that offends Liberals = Hate Speech and/or racism
Anything that offends bayam = Hate Speech

St Gaudens on September 13, 2012 at 9:54 AM

+eleventy11!11!111

Paul-Cincy on September 13, 2012 at 10:03 AM

This is exactly what Obama wants and has been planning it for a couple of years now. He NEEDS a war in the Middle East to prop up his ailing re-election chances. He needs a distraction from his failed economic and domestic policies. A hot war in the M.E. should do the trick.

Dominion on September 13, 2012 at 10:04 AM

Today, we’re seeing the same diplomatic impotence displayed in that awful year, and the inevitable result.

I love this vague statements of blame. I’m curious, as always, what we’re supposed to be doing in this situation. Shooting protesters? Obama didn’t make the film. Was Bush to blame in 1989 when protesters stormed the American Cultural Center over the Satanic Verses? Or for the firebombings that took place in this country?

This is reminding me more of 1989 than 1979.

Hal_10000 on September 13, 2012 at 10:04 AM

So when do we get to prosecute Bill Ayers and the OWS trash who took the time to desecrate the U.S. flag, because let me tell you sister, that pegged my outrage/lack of common sense meter.

Why don’t you try selling pornography in Utah and you’ll see how far your freedom of speech takes you before the state’s common sense meter lands you into a jail cell.

I never suggested anyone be prosecuted. I suggested that acts of hate speech that inflame entire nations near oil supply routes vital to the nation’s well-being shouldn’t be held up as paragons of free speech.

bayam on September 13, 2012 at 10:06 AM

The First Gay President. Bishop then added an R in there, but I haven’t seen what that stands for. Bishop?

Night Owl on September 13, 2012 at 10:03 AM

I believe TFGRP is The First Gun Running President. Correct me if I’m wrong Bishop.

Trafalgar on September 13, 2012 at 10:06 AM

Some hooligans in Egypt broke into the embassy grounds and desecrated an American flag… not quite an act of war. Unless there’s another incident of failure to protect the embassy, chest pumping isn’t going to go anywhere. No one actually believes that the US is going to war over an act of vandalism.

As for Libya, there’s no sign that the Libyan government either condoned or supported the attack. There’s no indication of antagonistic toward the US or of a threat to the Libyan state by extremists. Hardly 1979.

The way to undermine Cairo is to cut off aid. US support funds a middle class existence for the Egyptian military.

bayam on September 13, 2012 at 9:03 AM

In both cases the governments of the foreign nations (Egypt and Libya) are responsible to find the perpetrators and deliver them to US custody for prosecution by the US for breaking treaties and US law. Separate prosecution can be done by the native governments, of course, but those involved must stand trial for their actions to be judged by the country being invaded.

In the case of Egypt we have not heard of this going on, and I do hope the government there comes to its senses.

In the case of Libya their government (such as it is) has agreed to work to find the perpetrators and deliver them to the US for trial.

These are not just incursions on civil law, but matters of State and must be treated as such.

Egypt has precious little time to disavow the actions, agree to help round up the perpetrators and deliver them to the US with or without US help. If Egypt actually BACKS the incursion then it is giving State sanction to an invasion of another Nation’s granted territory for the humanitarian and peace loving mission of having an Embassy.

While the Libyan case is worse (murdering an Ambassador is against all civilized norms of behavior) the government in Libya has done the right thing and needs to get credit for that.

If the Egyptian government cannot ensure the safety of a foreign Nations’ mission from its people, and cannot enforce any norms of civilized behavior on them, then why should the US be there? Further if the government in Egypt BACKS what has been done, then it has agreed to the violation of one of the primary ways that peace is secured across all Nations and has made itself an enemy to the system of Nation States in that doing.

Standards and norms for civilized exchange of Embassies, Consulates and lesser ministers is something that has been around since the first City States and reappears wherever man forms Nations. Not seeking to uphold that is barbaric at all times, in all regions of the Earth and makes any Nation willing to violate it a rogue nation by its actions.

So I do really, and for true, hope that the Egyptian government agrees to round up all of those miscreants and hand them over to the US for justice. That is a matter of State to State relations, not civil law, and has consequences far reaching for the Nations involved.

Is there any excuse for lax security?

No. Neither on the part of the host government or on our part. None at all. Blame goes right to the top in both instances, to the Head of State, not just delegated underlings although they are also holding some blame, as well. That is because it IS a State to State instance. The de-escalation is for the host governments to disavow the actions, work hard to bring in those responsible, and ask for help if they need it to do so.

And if President Obama doesn’t see Egypt as an ally, its people are hostile, its regime inept, then just why are we sending personnel and money there, in the first place? And why aren’t US personnel leaving immediately?

ajacksonian on September 13, 2012 at 10:07 AM

I believe TFGRP is The First Gun Running President. Correct me if I’m wrong Bishop.

Trafalgar on September 13, 2012 at 10:06 AM

I heard it that way and also took it to mean:

The First Gay Racist President.

cozmo on September 13, 2012 at 10:08 AM

bayam is just setting the stage for anti-blasphemy laws to protect Islam. That’s what this is all about. Once that’s done, they’re home free. Steyn was right. I think England will be the first to give in.

a capella on September 13, 2012 at 10:08 AM

The 1979 virus.

No, it’s the 632 disease.

Basilsbest on September 13, 2012 at 10:10 AM

You fail to realize that there have ALWAYS been limitation on free speech in this country.

No, I realize that quite well, thank you very much.

And I never suggested that free speech should be restricted or regulated in this case. I said that defending this idiot’s worthless film as some higher expression of speech is undeserving.

Really??

“It’s time to apply some common sense” sounds an awful lot like regulating free speech. Because who’s common sense do you suggest we follow? The Muslims? Obama’s? Yours?

Free speech either applies to everyone or it applies to no one. “P*ss Christ” was protected, but you’re saying this film should be outlawed as hate speech? Who decides what’s hate speech? The Muslims? Obama? You?

A simplistic and craven attempt to express hatred toward another society or religion isn’t an expression of Western values or follow the example of how the Founding Fathers fostered the US image abroad.

So what do you suggest? Leaving aside the fact that this film was not the cause of the protests but the excuse to run amok, let’s turn the tables – your “Jesus does Blow Jobs” film gets released and Christian groups want the writer and director arrested on hate crime charges. What do you think the Left is going to do then? They’ll go apoplectic over it being an “assault on free speech”. But a lousy film portreying Mohammed in anything but the most holiest of lights has to be outlawed as “hate speech” because of “common sense”?

Wow. Just wow.

crazy_legs on September 13, 2012 at 10:11 AM

I love this vague statements of blame. I’m curious, as always, what we’re supposed to be doing in this situation. Shooting protesters? Obama didn’t make the film. Was Bush to blame in 1989 when protesters stormed the American Cultural Center over the Satanic Verses? Or for the firebombings that took place in this country?

This is reminding me more of 1989 than 1979.

Hal_10000 on September 13, 2012 at 10:04 AM

Blah, blah, blah, moral equivalency, blah, blah, blah, Bush, blah, blah, blah.

I won’t be vague.

And it also wouldn’t be happening if Obama and Biden hadn’t gone around the country shouting “Osama is dead, and GM is alive!” They caused this, they are responsible for the dead, the lack of security and the wimpy response.

Night Owl on September 13, 2012 at 9:37 AM

Night Owl on September 13, 2012 at 10:11 AM

The First Gun Running President.

see also:

POSGRP

Bishop on September 13, 2012 at 10:12 AM

If someone in the MidEast shot a film ‘Jesus does Blow Jobs’, I’d find it equally repulsive and inexcusable. The entire free speech argument has been blown far out of proportion in this case. It’s time to apply some common sense.

[bayam on September 13, 2012 at 9:21 AM]

LOL. So what? You and what other person are going to that ME country’s embassy here and throw rocks and fire RPG’s? You might get Westboro to show up for a protest if you bring a casket. If you accidentally mention Muslims at the protest, you might entice Jones to put up a vid.

Heck you might even see a Catholic Bishop or two to put out a press release and someone might give Donohue five minutes on a talk show, but in each case you’d have to claim you represent them to give them rise to notice.

Your entire free speech argument about the entire free speech argument is blown far out of proportion.

At some point you are going to need to use some common sense. Any rational person would bristle at the thought of letting any group large or small use threats of violence and murder to silence others, especially so, when it come to a group using it to protect the greatest charlatan the world has ever seen.

Dusty on September 13, 2012 at 10:12 AM

The most debt of any president in the history of the country, and in the shortest imaginable time.
The most rounds of golf of any president.
The worst record of keeping campaign promises of any president in the history of the country.
The worst jobs record in the history of the country.
The worst foreign policy record of any president in the history of the country. (and Hillary who is already being referred to as “the 2016 front runner is the Sec. Of State!!)
The most radical anti-American sentiments of any president in the history of the country.
The most obvious Marxist president in the history of the country.
The worst financial record of any president in the history of the country – his policies led directly to the first credit rating reduction in the history of the country – and we’re being warned the second is coming soon if things don’t change.

And yet, the Lame Stream Media absolutely CHAMPIONS this guy, and he is repeatedly polling neck and neck with Romney. This is not the America I grew up in.

KMC1 on September 13, 2012 at 10:13 AM

No, by all means, if you some jacka$$ films a man having sex with young children under the caption ‘Prophet Mohammad’, then you should defend it at all costs. It’s exactly how the Founding Fathers foresaw the US expressing itself in world affairs.

bayam on September 13, 2012 at 9:45 AM

This wasn’t child porn, and your conflation is f**king despicable.

This is CRITICISM of a religion. The Founding Fathers WANTED that to be legal, because it wasn’t in England. Wake the hell up. You’re siding with people who riot over cartoons, movies, and books getting wet.

MadisonConservative on September 13, 2012 at 10:14 AM

Why don’t you try selling pornography in Utah and you’ll see how far your freedom of speech takes you before the state’s common sense meter lands you into a jail cell.

I never suggested anyone be prosecuted. I suggested that acts of hate speech that inflame entire nations near oil supply routes vital to the nation’s well-being shouldn’t be held up as paragons of free speech.

bayam on September 13, 2012 at 10:06 AM

So, the test for hate speech is whether or not the language or immage will cause someone to commit violence in reaction to it?

You should lecture Constitutional Law at the University of Chicago.

St Gaudens on September 13, 2012 at 10:14 AM

bayam is just setting the stage for anti-blasphemy laws to protect Islam

Yes, you’re right. Anyone who condemns let’s say an Iranian film that portrays the Jews as undermining Germany and inventing the Holocaust is also campaigning to restrict freedom of speech. Because all speech should be defended as free speech and never criticized.

bayam on September 13, 2012 at 10:15 AM

And I never suggested that free speech should be restricted or regulated in this case. I said that defending this idiot’s worthless film as some higher expression of speech is undeserving.

bayam on September 13, 2012 at 9:56 AM

You only think it’s undeserving because this is the first speech in decades where there has been a real threat as a result of it. It is PRECISELY that kind of speech that is most important to defend, because if we don’t protect our free speech rights in those circumstances, then we’ll back down on others, until our speech has become useless. Once we’ve protected one religion against criticism, free speech is finished.

MadisonConservative on September 13, 2012 at 10:19 AM

Trafalgar on September 13, 2012 at 10:00 AM

Trafalgar, didn’t you get the memo where it says it is unfair for you to use their own twisted logic against them? Good work!!

Deano1952 on September 13, 2012 at 10:19 AM

bayam is just setting the stage for anti-blasphemy laws to protect Islam

Yes, you’re right.
bayam on September 13, 2012 at 10:15 AM

Sometimes it just takes a little while:

And I never suggested that free speech should be restricted or regulated in this case.

bayam on September 13, 2012 at 9:56 AM

cozmo on September 13, 2012 at 10:19 AM

I can’t believe Hillary is giving another apology speech for that video.

BettyRuth on September 13, 2012 at 10:19 AM

This is CRITICISM of a religion. The Founding Fathers WANTED that to be legal, because it wasn’t in England. Wake the hell up. You’re siding with people who riot over cartoons, movies, and books getting wet.

MadisonConservative on September 13, 2012 at 10:14 AM

The Satanic Verses is a critique of religion and Islam. I suggest you read it so that you understand the difference between it and a ‘film’ that casually depicts a major religious figure as a child molester. Do you really have that much trouble grasping the difference?

bayam on September 13, 2012 at 10:19 AM

Hillary is apologizing yet again for this obscure video. So if thousands upon thousands of videos are made ridiculing the murderous Mohamed, does that mean she will condemn every one of them, one by one by one bye one?…

Pest on September 13, 2012 at 10:23 AM

I agree with Glenn Reynolds. We need flamethrowers at all of our enemies. Let’s see how enthusiastice these “protestors” would be then.

patch on September 13, 2012 at 10:23 AM

This is CRITICISM of a religion. The Founding Fathers WANTED that to be legal, because it wasn’t in England. Wake the hell up. You’re siding with people who riot over cartoons, movies, and books getting wet.

MadisonConservative on September 13, 2012 at 10:14 AM

The Satanic Verses is a critique of religion and Islam. I suggest you read it so that you understand the difference between it and a ‘film’ that casually depicts a major religious figure as a child molester. Do you really have that much trouble grasping the difference?

bayam on September 13, 2012 at 10:19 AM

You are grasping at straws. There is no difference where free speech is concerned.

Pest on September 13, 2012 at 10:25 AM

What the He$$ is Hilary doing??? Why is she trying to pacify these terrorist? Are we living in an alternative universe right now? Wow, just Wow!

texgal on September 13, 2012 at 10:26 AM

The Satanic Verses is a critique of religion and Islam. I suggest you read it so that you understand the difference between it and a ‘film’ that casually depicts a major religious figure as a child molester. Do you really have that much trouble grasping the difference?

bayam on September 13, 2012 at 10:19 AM

You have not answered the question of “Pi$$ Christ”. Was that a “beautiful” expression of free speech? Would we be within your guidelines to kill the creator of that or send him into hiding for the rest of his life? You can try all you want, but you can’t defend this stupid assertion of yours. Give it up.

Night Owl on September 13, 2012 at 10:28 AM

The Satanic Verses is a critique of religion and Islam. I suggest you read it so that you understand the difference between it and a ‘film’ that casually depicts a major religious figure as a child molester. Do you really have that much trouble grasping the difference?

bayam on September 13, 2012 at 10:19 AM

Either way, it’s free speech. And btw, hate speech is protected speech in this country. You don’t have a right to not be offended.

Bitter Clinger on September 13, 2012 at 10:28 AM

Folks like Dante should study the History of the Crusades.

Islam is the rallying cry…But the motive is what it has always been…A money and land grab.

workingclass artist on September 13, 2012 at 10:29 AM

Why is it that Americans when attacked in today’s political culture of appeasement we look like doe’s in a headlight!

How can anyone watch the rantings and out of control rampaging Muslim’s do and not collectively tell these people they are crazy and this kind of behavior is not going to be tolerated? Animals behave better than these folks.

Why don’t Christians take to the streets in mass…. wrecking and demolishing, killing and maiming every-time our “FEELINGS” are hurt? Because….. It is unacceptable.

ISLAM is not a religion of peace, it never has been…. You need to understand what the definition of peace is for them… Peace means oppression and acceptance of THEIR Allah. Get you heads out of the dark space it is securely embedded and take a gander at the light.. the truth might scare you but when our streets start resembling the middle east, at least you will have some kind of understanding why it’s happening. Sheep go Baaaaahhhhh.

President Obama over and again has proven himself inadequate at every aspect of his job. Likeability factors don’t make a good gauge for POTUS….. This is not X-factor, we need someone that has a clue how to protect and serve this nation and stop the madness… President Obama and his gafftastic moron VP Joe Biden that was supposed to be looking for waste in stimulus and tarp money have failed our entire country. Neither one of them has an idea between them of how to protect their citizens against drug cartels, violent Islam, Russia, China or anything or anyone else….. Fire them in November… They just have to go!

ActinUpinTexas on September 13, 2012 at 10:29 AM

The Satanic Verses is a critique of religion and Islam. I suggest you read it so that you understand the difference between it and a ‘film’ that casually depicts a major religious figure as a child molester. Do you really have that much trouble grasping the difference?

bayam on September 13, 2012 at 10:19 AM

Is your critique limited to the hateful depiction of only “major religious figures” or do minor religious figures deserve the same protection? Help me understand what is and what isn’t offensive lest I say, write, draw, or film something that will incite murder and violence in a part of the world vital to US interests.

St Gaudens on September 13, 2012 at 10:30 AM

I don’t mean close all of our embassies, just the ones in Yemen, Egypt, Libya, Pakistan, etc.

Dante on September 13, 2012 at 9:42 AM

Our embassies (as is true of other nations’ embassies) are a means of gathering intel covertly. Wake up and grow up.

onlineanalyst on September 13, 2012 at 10:33 AM

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