An “Obama bounce”… in gun sales?

posted at 12:31 pm on September 9, 2012 by Erika Johnsen

What with all of the Keynesian-ish methods with which President Obama has tried and spectacularly failed to stimulate the economy and to provide boosts to various politically-favored economic sectors, I have to confess that it’s just the tiniest bit gratifying that one of the few industries coming through the economic downturn with superbly flying colors is probably the one industry that many hardcore liberals would like to see shut down altogether. In 2008, gun sales surged after President Obama’s election, part of the explanation for which was that people feared a progressive gun-control crackdown. It was quite the healthy bounce for the world of firearms, except that the bounce hasn’t let up — at all.

Although nothing too drastic has come out of the current administration in terms of gun regulations (alas, but for that dastardly NRA and their horrid lobbying money preventing us from having a real conversation about firearms in this country, oh the humanity!), it seems that the prospect of a second Obama term (in which he’ll no longer be thinking about reelection and will hence have more, cough cough, “flexibility”) isn’t doing anything to quell the boom.  CNBC reports that the gun industry has seen sustained high sales during Obama’s tenure, and is still going more than strong as we wend our way towards November:

Smith & Wesson stock Friday was zooming, thanks to a stellar earnings report. The firearms maker also boosted its outlook for the rest of the year. Because of the strong business, its backlog of orders more than doubled from the same quarter last year, the company is concentrating on boosting production and building inventory.

“We are underserving the market at this moment, we all know that, and that’s a great opportunity going forward for us,” CEO James Debney said in a conference call with analysts.

And another gun maker, Sturm, Ruger & Co., also hit a milestone of sorts in terms of meeting consumer demand. It produced its one-millionth gun of the year…well ahead of last year’s pace.

“It took us nearly all of 2011 to build one million firearms, but in 2012 we accomplished it on August 15th,” said Ruger President and CEO Mike Fifer in a statement. …

“I should put Obama’s picture on the wall up there,” said one New Jersey gun salesman, asking not to be identified. “I’d name him salesman of the month!”

Besides the possible cultural explanation that gun ownership is simply becoming more acceptable (bipartisanship, huzzah!) and that shooting sports are becoming more popular, there’s also the theory that the terrible economy itself is fueling people’s fears of extreme-survival scenarios, and they’re taking precautions. Either way, because of President Obama directly or because of the awful economy he’s fomented, the liberals’ hero has been a catalyst for gun sales like no other. I do so hope the irony isn’t lost on them.

The Democratic National Committee’s platform at their convention last week was pretty iffy as to their gun-related agenda, but most definitely left the door open for further gun-control measures — here’s what they had to say, for your interpretation:

Firearms. We recognize that the individual right to bear arms is an important part of the American tradition, and we will preserve Americans’ Second Amendment right to own and use firearms. We believe that the right to own firearms is subject to reasonable regulation. We understand the terrible consequences of gun violence; it serves as a reminder that life is fragile, and our time here is limited and precious. We believe in an honest, open national conversation about firearms. We can focus on effective enforcement of existing laws, especially strengthening our background check system, and we can work together to enact commonsense improvements—like reinstating the assault weapons ban and closing the gun show loophole—so that guns do not fall into the hands of those irresponsible, law-breaking few.


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Bruno Strozek on September 9, 2012 at 2:51 PM

You have been given some good ideas.

For a newb, a pump shotgun or a medium frame revolver is probably best.

I suggest you find a gun range that rents guns and try some out. You can probably get some instruction at the same place, and that is a very good idea.

Shotguns are versatile but perhaps not the best in CQB (close quarters battle). Turning around in a doorway can be a problem if you forget to lift the barrel. A home defense shotgun should be 12 guage, 18-20 inch barrel, open or modified choke, extended magazine. Remington, Mossberg, and Stevens are all good. Ammunition is available in a wide range, but light load birdshot is suitable, lower recoil, and less likely to over-penetrate.

For handguns, revolvers are easier to operate and generally less likely to malfunction. A revolver that has been sitting a drawer for five years is very likely to function perfectly. A semi-auto, similarly ignored, not so much. A medium frame .357 S&W, Colt or Taurus are all good. Ammunition can range from .38 Spcl target loads to full house .357 Magnum +P. (A revolver chambered for .357 Magnum can shoot .38 Spcl, as a .357 Mag is just a slightly longer .38 Spcl cartridge, designed so to prevent shooting the higher pressure .357 Mags in .38 Spcl revolvers.) Get a couple of speed loaders and practice your reloads.

Any terms you don’t understand, please just ask. Plenty of info is available on line, but as usual with the intertoobs, some of that info is garbage.

Whatever you do, make sure you can shoot with combat accuracy any weapon you choose to buy. Better to hit them once with a .22LR than to miss three times with a .357 Magnum.

novaculus on September 9, 2012 at 3:11 PM

Where’s the love Mr. B? :)

arnold ziffel on September 9, 2012 at 3:04 PM

Saved up for those of worth. Like you my favorite little piggy. ; )

Bmore on September 9, 2012 at 3:13 PM

This is the magazine I have.

As far as loading it is concerned. I don’t really have any issues with it. It has a little lever/switch to pull the drum around to assist with loading another round. I just bought a couple of boxes of Rio Game Load. I didn’t notice any issues with them.

JAGonzo on September 9, 2012 at 3:13 PM

Depends on how widespread it is. If the threat was too small and/or localized, it would probably not last long in a nose-to-nose fight with SWAT teams and possibly Guard reinforcements.

But don’t forget that most of the army is overseas playing “Occupy Iraq/Afghanistan, 113th Chorus”. It would take awhile for them to all get back and redeployed if a serious rev-o-lution broke out.

MelonCollie on September 9, 2012 at 3:03 PM

a bunch of rioters are not a “serious rev-o-lution”

nathor on September 9, 2012 at 3:14 PM

Schadenfreude on September 9, 2012 at 12:48 PM

..amigo, you DO realize that was in MA and not the entire U.S.? Why do you think he will attempt this in the U.S. I think this would be a pretty stupid move on his part.

The War Planner on September 9, 2012 at 3:15 PM

Why lookie here,, a 3%er…

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=471963&stc=1&d=1255460616.
,
In my perfect world, gun ownership would be mandatory.

I’m open to the idea of all liberals being required to wear armbands, but right now an obarky 2012 bumper sticker is good enough.

wolly4321 on September 9, 2012 at 3:17 PM

WhatSlushfund on September 9, 2012 at 2:56 PM

Thanks,

That’s only 4″ shorter than a CAR-15.

When they first started coming out with the pistol AR’s there were some strange ones. I decided on the 9mm AR instead of a pistol AR.

cozmo on September 9, 2012 at 3:17 PM

a bunch of rioters are not a “serious rev-o-lution”

nathor on September 9, 2012 at 3:14 PM

Its your side that keeps bringing up revolution.

cozmo on September 9, 2012 at 3:18 PM

I didn’t notice any issues with them.

JAGonzo on September 9, 2012 at 3:13 PM

That’s good to know. Lots of auto loaders are picky.

cozmo on September 9, 2012 at 3:20 PM

a bunch of rioters are not a “serious rev-o-lution”

nathor on September 9, 2012 at 3:14 PM

I wasn’t including that scenario. Rioters can often be dispersed in a very short order by city police forces alone…IF they don’t have to worry about being sued into oblivion for ‘excessive force’.

But of course, if about all they’re allowed to do is duck behind their shields while the rioters throw everything from bricks to Molotovs, it takes a lot longer.

MelonCollie on September 9, 2012 at 3:21 PM

If a bunch of rioters aren’t a revolution, neither is a bunch of peaceful citizens arming up.

You lefties seem a tad bit worried..

Good.

wolly4321 on September 9, 2012 at 3:23 PM

Sorry to go O/T, but comments in this article have to be the funny of the day? Two stand out.

1) Obama will not wait in New York to meet with Netanyahu, especially in light of his pressing election campaign

2)In his address, Obama will be expected to demonstrate his leadership skills on the Iranian and Syrian issues, which will be at the focus of Western leaders’ discussions.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4278904,00.html
L

letget on September 9, 2012 at 3:26 PM

MelonCollie on September 9, 2012 at 3:00 PM

Make friends with local dealers. Start going to gun shows. Study the market, get a grip on prices. You can probably get a decent deal on an ugly but functional former police revolver of shotgun. Sometimes the best deals on such weapons can be done in the last hour of the gun show.

novaculus on September 9, 2012 at 3:28 PM

Its your side that keeps bringing up revolution.

cozmo on September 9, 2012 at 3:18 PM

Exactly. Revolution is the leftist dream, as in Frank Marshall Davis’ imminent revolution in America and Øbama’s “fundamentally transforming America”. Disruption and violence is from the leftist playbook, as in Cloward-Piven, Bill Ayers, Saul Alinsky, etal.

It’s the progressive leftists, not conservatives, who dream of revolution.

petefrt on September 9, 2012 at 3:29 PM

Larger pic of Biden with his biker mama. Funniest part is guys next to them with the WTF look on their faces.

http://twitpic.com/aswlo7/full

Mark1971 on September 9, 2012 at 3:33 PM

If you go carrying pictures of chairman mao,,
You ain’t gonna make it with anyone anyhow..

Alright.

wolly4321 on September 9, 2012 at 3:33 PM

Its your side that keeps bringing up revolution.

cozmo on September 9, 2012 at 3:18 PM

well, ron paul appealed to a revolution. I am guilty!

nathor on September 9, 2012 at 3:37 PM

OMG just checked out the gun laws in Hawaii. It takes 14 days and I think a class to get a gun. I am a lawyer but I think I will have to hire someone to help me figure this out. Geeeeze.

HawaiiLwyr on September 9, 2012 at 1:18 PM
Yep. Lots of hoops to jump thru here in paradise. Try calling the Hawaii Rifle Association. They are very helpful and will steer you in the right direction regarding the laws, the waiting period and classes. Check out and talk yo the employees at gun shops in your area. If you’re on Oahu, check out Security Equipment on Young St, Magnum Sports off of Ward Av. and Young Guns in Mapunapuna. Young is probably the nicest bunch, but you’ll learn alot from any of them. There is also a gun show at the NBC on Oct 6. It’s a couple of bucks to get in but well worth it. The big plus is that the vendors will all be in one place, so you don’t have to drive all over town. Expect the NBC be busy that day as Cirque du soleil is performing Quidam at the arena in the afternoon/evening. Most of the people there (vendors and customers) are very nice and love to talk guns and ammo, so it should be helpful to you. You’ll need to get the class out of the way before you can even apply for you permit to PURCHASE your firearm. The State’s hunter education class will fulfill that requirement. I don’t know the cost of the class though. Try calling the state DLNR. If you have military accesss you might try the Schofield Gun and Rod club. I took my NRA certified class there. It was good, comprehensive, fact filled and fun. We also had range time and completed the course in one long day. Magnum sports also runs as class at cost. Another thing about Magnum is the fact that they have an indoor range and a program that lets you rent a firearm to try out prior to your purchase. It can be a little costly (rightly so, they care about what kind of ammo goes down their range, so you also have to buy the ammo you’re going to use from them), but one of the most important things in a firearm purchase is how you personally feel about the firearm….your confidence in controlling it, breaking it down, putting it back together again, clearing jams in a timely manner, etc.

kekelaward on September 9, 2012 at 3:43 PM

and you think the police and the army would not intervene against this domestic threat?

nathor

Maybe you should ask Reginald Denny.

xblade on September 9, 2012 at 3:45 PM

Wow, there’s something you don’t see often enough. Cultist on cultist. ; )

Bmore on September 9, 2012 at 3:48 PM

Hope that helps HawaiiLwyr. Sorry it was so long. The most important thing though, is trying out your selected firearm/arms prior to your purchase. There may be some unexpected quirks in the weapon that don’t suit you personally. Of course, there may be some unexpected joys too.

kekelaward on September 9, 2012 at 3:48 PM

OMG just checked out the gun laws in Hawaii. It takes 14 days and I think a class to get a gun. I am a lawyer but I think I will have to hire someone to help me figure this out. Geeeeze.

HawaiiLwyr on September 9, 2012 at 1:18 PM

Is there a waiting list for a crossbow?

JellyToast on September 9, 2012 at 3:50 PM

Maybe you should ask Reginald Denny.

xblade on September 9, 2012 at 3:45 PM

Or the Korean-American shop owners who defended their businesses with firearms. In many neighborhoods, they were the only businesses still open in the aftermath of the riots.

novaculus on September 9, 2012 at 3:50 PM

People are preparing for an 0bama loss. I know I am. Lots of practice and stocking up on ammo.

cozmo on September 9, 2012 at 12:47 PM

I tend to think there may be a few riots. I hope not but Obama and his minions are not ones who take loss or being told “no” well so I too am getting a bit prepared. Ammo, a few extra mags and I even started a basic bug out bag though it’s incomplete as I ran out of funds but something is better than nothing.

Yakko77 on September 9, 2012 at 3:54 PM

You know, this is sorta besides the point, but few things fit better in your hand than a revolver does. Especially with Hogue grips. I’ve fired both and not commenting at all on what I own or don’t own, but a revolver just feels so right. Lots of flash in a semi-auto handgun. Large capacity is always a plus, but a revolver will never let you down in a pinch and the grip is always so much better.

JellyToast on September 9, 2012 at 3:55 PM

Or the Korean-American shop owners who defended their businesses with firearms. In many neighborhoods, they were the only businesses still open in the aftermath of the riots.

novaculus on September 9, 2012 at 3:50 PM

If I lived in those dangerous neighborhoods and had a business and family to defend, i would have bought guns long ago…
but still, its the police and army role to intervene in riots and they did!

nathor on September 9, 2012 at 3:57 PM

a day after some neighbor is robbed? or if i plan to move to a more dangerous city…

nathor on September 9, 2012 at 3:00 PM

Of course nathor’s neighbor is waiting for nathor to be robbed first.

Yoop on September 9, 2012 at 3:57 PM

Of course nathor’s neighbor is waiting for nathor to be robbed first.

Yoop on September 9, 2012 at 3:57 PM

What does nathor have worth stealing?

MelonCollie on September 9, 2012 at 3:59 PM

If I lived in those dangerous neighborhoods and had a business and family to defend, i would have bought guns long ago…
but still, its the police and army role to intervene in riots and they did!

nathor on September 9, 2012 at 3:57 PM

You’re joking right? Maybe you weren’t watching the news on TV during those riots.
I clearly remember seeing police cars fleeing the scene of riots. Just like in New Orleans during Katrina.. I clearly remember watching videos of police looting stores.

JellyToast on September 9, 2012 at 4:00 PM

The problem I’m having now is finding a concealed carry purse that’s not only functional, but fashionable.

TxAnn56 on September 9, 2012 at 1:31 P

I know you’re looking for a purse, but you might take a look at a Smart Carry deep concealment holster. I’ve used one for years. It’s not a very speedy draw, but most people would be hard pressed to notice that you were carring a firearm and one or two extra mags. The shock value of having a firearm in your hand that seemingly appeared from nowhere has calmed many a situation down to manageable levels without the need for any physical violence.

kekelaward on September 9, 2012 at 4:03 PM

A revolver that has been sitting a drawer for five years is very likely to function perfectly.

novaculus on September 9, 2012 at 3:11 PM

Not that you should do that to *any* gun! Take it out and love it – take it to the range and play with it a while, feed it and clean up after it, get to know it, buy it accessories. You wouldn’t put your dog in a cage and leave it there – don’t do it to your gun!

(Good advice, novaculus (except I will stick with buckshot) – I just couldn’t pass up that sentence.)

GWB on September 9, 2012 at 4:03 PM

and you think the police and the army would not intervene against this domestic threat?

nathor on September 9, 2012 at 2:58 PM

The supreme court has upheld on at a least two occasions now that there is no requirement for the police to provide you protection unless you have some sort of “special” relationship with them.

They will, however, be happy to stand over your corpse and explain to the coroner that you and your son were found with your hands tied behind your back and a bullet hole in the back of your heads. Your wife and daughter? In the master bedroom: bound, naked and executed the same way. Yes, it would take the police that long to respond to your call for help.

The army? They are prohibited “by-law” from getting involved in domestic incidents. Look up “Posse Comitatus Act”. It would require an act of congress to allow the Army to perform such domestic duties. The army is there to protect the country from outside invasion. “Why they aren’t being used to repel all those invaders from the south is beyond me.”

“I’d rather be judged by 12 than carried by six.”

Hammie on September 9, 2012 at 4:03 PM

You’re joking right? Maybe you weren’t watching the news on TV during those riots.
I clearly remember seeing police cars fleeing the scene of riots. Just like in New Orleans during Katrina.. I clearly remember watching videos of police looting stores.

JellyToast on September 9, 2012 at 4:00 PM

what i mean is that eventually the police and army will restore order. but sure, if you live in dangerous areas where there can be temporary vacuums of law and order, do buy a gun!

nathor on September 9, 2012 at 4:05 PM

You know, this is sorta besides the point, but few things fit better in your hand than a revolver does. Especially with Hogue grips. I’ve fired both and not commenting at all on what I own or don’t own, but a revolver just feels so right. Lots of flash in a semi-auto handgun. Large capacity is always a plus, but a revolver will never let you down in a pinch and the grip is always so much better.

JellyToast on September 9, 2012 at 3:55 PM

To each his/her own, but I finally ended up where Jeff Cooper was all along. Nothing fits my hand more naturally than what he termed the best “fighting” handgun ever designed: the 1911 in .45 ACP.

Have to take exception with “but a revolver will never let you down in a pinch…”. They have been known to lockup with a blown primer. I had exactly that thing happen with a Colt Trooper in .357 magnum. It was a wake up.

Google “blown primer”, “melted firing pin” and “locked up cylinder”. It actually happened to a S&W with a hand load.

Yoop on September 9, 2012 at 4:08 PM

CorporatePiggy on September 9, 2012 at 1:58 PM
I’m not sure I would entrust my life or the lives of my loved ones on the dependability of extended mags and drums. I’ve just heard too many stories of failing springs. Just a personal thing with me though.

kekelaward on September 9, 2012 at 4:09 PM

i not sure i understand what you are saying, but i get the feeling you really dont like me. relax dude.

nathor on September 9, 2012 at 3:09 PM

It does understand some things, doesn’t it?

Hammie on September 9, 2012 at 4:15 PM

My 47 year old neighbor was anti-gun ownership.

He lived in the house directly beyond the wall past my pool deck. He had said he felt threatened by a nephew who was doing a lot of drugs and was into him for $5,000. He knew the young man was going to come back, despite having told him not to return, for more money, and related that the young man had already threatened him.

My neighbor decided to invest in a very expensive surveillance system. He had it installed inside his home as well as all the way around his home, covering his entire property. He said that he was going to tell the nephew it was there and he was confident that it would be an effective deterrent.

It performed beautifully, too. It faithfully recorded the entire event when the young man showed up at my neighbors home at 7:25 AM. My neighbor had gone outside to talk to the young man in his front yard, because my neighbor’s mother was inside the house trying to recover from another chemotherapy treatment.

At 7:30 AM, as I sat beside my pool at the table working, I heard a shot. I also heard the breath forced from my neighbors body from the impact. His nephew had shot him in the back as he turned to walk back into his home. The nephew sped away.

Despite the fact that many of us rushed to the scene to try to help, and called 911 instantly we heard the shot, my neighbor bled out before the ambulance and police could even arrive. The hospital was only about 6 blocks away.

The police used the surveillance tape to identify and arrest the nephew, who was duly convicted.

Had my neighbor invested in a weapon when he felt threatened by his nephew, told him he had it and knew how to use it, rather than a surveillance system to record the attack, he might still be alive, today.

thatsafactjack on September 9, 2012 at 4:16 PM

I purchased my first firearm a couple of weeks ago, a Saiga 12. It came with an adjustable stock and 20 round drum magazine. I am pretty stoked about it. Got to put one drum down range a week ago. I liked it. Still doing a lot of reading about it but I bought it for pretty much one reason. Killin’ zombies.

JAGonzo on September 9, 2012 at 2:49 PM

That’s sweet!!!! I’d love to get one of those. Do you ever watch that “Professional Russian” guy (FPSRussia) on youtube? That guy is good for some yuks and snorts.

kekelaward on September 9, 2012 at 4:17 PM

Here you go. There were many videos of police fleeing. Here’s a big one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKQIeSq4FK4

what i mean is that eventually the police and army will restore order. but sure, if you live in dangerous areas where there can be temporary vacuums of law and order, do buy a gun!

nathor on September 9, 2012 at 4:05 PM

Well.. God help you until that happens.
You want to restore some order in our nation? One word… Freedom!

Here are a few excerpts from a paper/book written on crime in the old west. Basically.. there was very little of it.
http://www.guncite.com/wild_west_myth.html

A look at two frontier mining towns—Aurora, Nevada, and Bodie, California—illustrates these points.[2] The towns were home to Bannons and Ryans aplenty and saw a considerable number of homicides but they were remarkably free from most crime: robbery, theft, and burglary occurred infrequently and bank robbery, rape, racial violence, and serious juvenile crime seem not to have occurred at all. While the homicide rate was high, the killings were almost always the result of fights between willing combatants. Thus, in Aurora and Bodie, the old, the young, the unwilling, the weak, and the female were, for the most part, safe from harm. If, as many popularly assume, much of America’s crime problem is a consequence of a heritage of frontier violence and lawlessness, then it is ironic that the crimes most common today—robbery, burglar, theft, and rape—were of no great significance and, in the case of rape, seemingly nonexistent in Aurora and Bodie.

So what made the west so safe? Liberty, Freedom, Property rights, The rule of law, Christianity and the fact that Washington DC and most politicians were in the east.

JellyToast on September 9, 2012 at 4:19 PM

I’ve just heard too many stories of failing springs. Just a personal thing with me though.

kekelaward on September 9, 2012 at 4:09 PM

Rotate your loaded mags and unless the apocalypse is sure to happen next week, you can leave a magazine a couple of rounds short. The guy in Colorado could have killed many more people if he didn’t have to be “super cool dude” with a drum magazine that failed. Not even an AK is easier to switch mags in than an AR.

cozmo on September 9, 2012 at 4:22 PM

Yoop on September 9, 2012 at 4:08 PM

Anything can fail. I have had revolvers lock up, but they are less likely to malfunction than a semi-auto. On the downside, when they do malfunction, it is often more difficult to get them back in action. I like the 1911 myself, but I have had a lot of training and practice regularly. My 1911 is set up for reliability, and would still run if you dropped it in sand or mud. Too loose for target accuracy, but I can hit the 10-ring every time at 25 yards, and that is all you need for defense.

novaculus on September 9, 2012 at 4:23 PM

cozmo on September 9, 2012 at 4:22 PM

Good advice. I rotate the mags in my carry pistols, and the off-duty mags are emptied to rest the springs. Hi-cap rifle mags that are stored loaded should always be a few rounds short of full. Personally, I don’t store mags loaded. Unless you are confident that your mags function flawlessly when fully loaded, downloading by a couple of rounds is the single most effective thing you can do to improve reliability.

novaculus on September 9, 2012 at 4:29 PM

So what made the west so safe? Liberty, Freedom, Property rights, The rule of law, Christianity and the fact that Washington DC and most politicians were in the east.

JellyToast on September 9, 2012 at 4:19 PM

and what made the east safe then?

nathor on September 9, 2012 at 4:32 PM

To each his/her own, but I finally ended up where Jeff Cooper was all along. Nothing fits my hand more naturally than what he termed the best “fighting” handgun ever designed: the 1911 in .45 ACP.

Have to take exception with “but a revolver will never let you down in a pinch…”. They have been known to lockup with a blown primer. I had exactly that thing happen with a Colt Trooper in .357 magnum. It was a wake up.

Google “blown primer”, “melted firing pin” and “locked up cylinder”. It actually happened to a S&W with a hand load.

Yoop on September 9, 2012 at 4:08 PM

You had to bring up the 1911. Not fair. I love the .45. Made to stop a horse at 50 feet. Can’t argue. But the .357 was designed to stop a car. The 1911 is in a class of its own. It’s not your normal handgun. It is a beautiful piece of iron and has a nice fit.
Back in the day when I had to study so much on stopping power and all.. the .357 was it. Reading police reports, gelatin studies and whatever else I was reading back then the .357 had the best stopping power. But this was quite a few years back.
I do remember reading too some morgue statistics. I think it was pretty much the same. But the mortician had seen people die from everything from a single .22 on up. Shot placement is very important. Did read, though, of a police woman shot by a .357 in the heart. Was able to return fire and take down her attacker and still live. Unbelievable. So you never know. I’m pretty sure she lived but I do know she was able to return fire after being shot in the heart. Amazing.

JellyToast on September 9, 2012 at 4:33 PM

Is there a waiting list for a crossbow?

JellyToast on September 9, 2012 at 3:50 PM

Not yet. But I don’t doubt that the dems here are working on it. We are in bad shape here. We may end up with a total of 2 or 3 repubs in both chambers of our legislature. It’s pathetic and our local GOP party refuses to engage. There are a few young, intelligent up and comers, but they get absolutely no help from the party.

kekelaward on September 9, 2012 at 4:38 PM

The War Planner on September 9, 2012 at 3:15 PM

Sure, I know all about him. Until today he said he’d get rid of “all Obamacare” as soon as he’d win.

To the barricades, together, one way or the other. Just don’t shoot me. I’m on your side. Plus, my Schadenfreude overfloweth, and it’s only 9/9/2012.

Schadenfreude on September 9, 2012 at 4:44 PM

cozmo on September 9, 2012 at 4:22 PM

Great points. If it were possible I’d always use a New York reload!

kekelaward on September 9, 2012 at 4:47 PM

I’m associated with a firearms component/accessory manufacturer who has seen a sales increase of 120% during first three years of the Obama Administration – the fourth-year should show an increase of 50% over last year, giving us a sales level of 3X of the last year of GWB!
As has been explained Frank Miniter….
http://www.forbes.com/sites/frankminiter/2012/08/23/what-the-left-wont-tell-you-about-the-boom-in-u-s-gun-sales/ ….
there has been a fundamental change in the attitudes of “everyman” about the possession, and ultimate use, of firearms within this country. More and more people do not trust the government, at any level, to be able to protect them, and are reacting accordingly.

Another Drew on September 9, 2012 at 5:06 PM

Not yet. But I don’t doubt that the dems here are working on it. We are in bad shape here. We may end up with a total of 2 or 3 repubs in both chambers of our legislature. It’s pathetic and our local GOP party refuses to engage. There are a few young, intelligent up and comers, but they get absolutely no help from the party.

kekelaward on September 9, 2012 at 4:38 PM

The party has absolutely no courage. That’s why we lost California.
You know, people from all over the freaking world want freedom but the GOP leadership thinks nobody does in California. It’s pathetic.

JellyToast on September 9, 2012 at 5:08 PM

The party has absolutely no courage. That’s why we lost California. You know, people from all over the freaking world want freedom but the GOP leadership thinks nobody does in California. It’s pathetic.

JellyToast on September 9, 2012 at 5:08 PM

I’m sadly coming to the belief that the People here don’t want freedom…which is mind boggling to me. We have so many people from other countries that have moved here to get away from the path we are being led down…I guess they don’t vote. And many of those who should be voting aren’t. There are a few glimmers of hope, but I have been disappointed so many times in the past that I hope you’ll excuse me for being a bit pessimistic about the situation.
We live in two of the most naturally beautiful places on earth…too bad there are both polluted by a hopeless political party.

kekelaward on September 9, 2012 at 5:24 PM

Bruno Strozek on September 9, 2012 at 1:08 PM

Head over to We the Armed, register, introduce yourself and start asking questions. There are plenty of knowledgeable people there who can answer any of your questions and advise you accordingly. There are – besides shooters with a lot of information – gunsmiths, law enforcement officers and military personnel. You can find the answers to just about any questions you may have.
(Much better info than, “buy a Taurus Judge.”)

http://wethearmed.com/index.php

Solaratov on September 9, 2012 at 5:47 PM

You had to bring up the 1911. Not fair. I love the .45. Made to stop a horse at 50 feet. Can’t argue. But the .357 was designed to stop a car. The 1911 is in a class of its own. It’s not your normal handgun. It is a beautiful piece of iron and has a nice fit.

JellyToast on September 9, 2012 at 4:33 PM

Mine is a Kimber in .40. But I’m working on that as I post. Setting up the acquisition of a mil spec in .45. Trying to find out what my brother can pick up for me sooner rather than later. Problem is I’m seeing prices for factory .45 ACP up around $45/50 around here.

Yoop on September 9, 2012 at 6:00 PM

Speaking of the Taurus Judge, I like the idea, but I’m not that practiced a pistol shooter, and I imagine the recoil would just about ruin my aim. Any comments?

petefrt on September 9, 2012 at 6:01 PM

Plasma rifle in the 40 watt range is best.

Bishop on September 9, 2012 at 6:04 PM

Speaking of the Taurus Judge, I like the idea, but I’m not that practiced a pistol shooter, and I imagine the recoil would just about ruin my aim. Any comments?

petefrt on September 9, 2012 at 6:01 PM

get a stainless one, not the polymer one. the added weight of the firearm gives extra inertia to balance the recoil. its an interesting piece I have considered before…but it doesn’t fit any need. if you need a truck gun get a hi point. you don’t have to worry about a five hundred dollar firearm getting stolen. home defense id go h & r pardner or a maverick 88. both are around $200. stoeger makes a good pump gun too. I’m leaning towsrds getting a north American arms in 22 mag as a backup new York reload. I carry either a 1911 or the Springfield xds. go to a range and rent a few. you will find out pretty quick what works for you.

tom daschle concerned on September 9, 2012 at 6:08 PM

And whoever comes to get mine will need to kiss their own ass goodbye.

Harbingeing on September 9, 2012 at 1:07 PM

Sure, same here. But you have to be willing to meet your maker.

Schadenfreude on September 9, 2012 at 1:09 PM

Yes, I know. And yes I am, if it comes to that. There are some principles basic to maintaining liberty for our heirs that are more important than my immediate life. What’s really sad is that in our free nation, with our 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms clearly enumerated in the constitution, we would even have to contemplate such a thing.

Thanks, progressives, for forcing that decision onto the rest of us. It won’t turn out how you think it will, however.

Meanwhile, here’s my newest home defense 12ga. Magazine capacity 14+1, overall length 26.1″ – concealable under a winter coat. Mine’s fitted with a strobe pistol grip and a milspec red dot sight.

Harbingeing on September 9, 2012 at 6:11 PM

Speaking of the Taurus Judge, I like the idea, but I’m not that practiced a pistol shooter, and I imagine the recoil would just about ruin my aim. Any comments?

petefrt on September 9, 2012 at 6:01 PM

Some people seem to like it, but I know a friend of mine did not. He is a retired LEO who was the the armorer, along with his regular duty, for the sheriff’s department where he worked.

One of the deputies for a nearby county bought a Judge and gave it to him to check over, smooth out, and break in on his range. His comment was “why would ANYONE want a piece of #*&^#$ iron like that”.

When I was in Walmart last month I noticed that they had a Judge rifle/shotgun. It’s a Judge action with a rifle barrel and stock and takes the .45 Colt and the 410 shot shell. Different looking firearm.

Yoop on September 9, 2012 at 6:18 PM

Meanwhile, here’s my newest home defense 12ga. Magazine capacity 14+1, overall length 26.1″ – concealable under a winter coat. Mine’s fitted with a strobe pistol grip and a milspec red dot sight.

Harbingeing on September 9, 2012 at 6:11 PM

Niiiiice!

MelonCollie on September 9, 2012 at 6:20 PM

nathor on September 9, 2012 at 4:32 PM

Run over to the thread where the husband protected himself and wife against four intruders in rural England—-and then were arrested. Maybe he should have talked to them and see if they came in peace or for a piece.

arnold ziffel on September 9, 2012 at 6:21 PM

“…you have to be prepared to meet your Maker.”

I entrust my Soul to God, and my life to John Moses Browning!

Another Drew on September 9, 2012 at 6:24 PM

Speaking of the Taurus Judge, I like the idea, but I’m not that practiced a pistol shooter, and I imagine the recoil would just about ruin my aim. Any comments?

petefrt on September 9, 2012 at 6:01 PM

When I was in Walmart last month I noticed that they had a Judge rifle/shotgun. It’s a Judge action with a rifle barrel and stock and takes the .45 Colt and the 410 shot shell. Different looking firearm.

Yoop on September 9, 2012 at 6:18 PM

Not my cup of tea but, a shooter I trust who likes those types of guns prefers the S&W Governor.

It takes .45 ACP and holds 6 shots.

cozmo on September 9, 2012 at 6:32 PM

petefrt on September 9, 2012 at 6:01 PM

It is a big, heavy piece, so the recoil is manageable. They are selling well, but I think it has more to do with the intimidating size and the novelty of shooting .410 bore shot shells than with any inherent virtues. I can see some niche uses. It is heavy for carry, but would make an ok saddle gun. Loaded with .410 shot, it would be serious snake medicine. If going small in a survival situation is a priority, it is smaller than the over/under shotgun/rifle combos like the Savage M24.

Certainly better than nothing for home defense, if you can manage the weight and the recoil. The charge from a .410 bore shot shell is less likely to penetrate a wall than a .45LC bullet. On the other hand, the charge from a .410 bore shot shell doesn’t have comparable stopping power to even a .357 bullet at .38 Spcl velocities.

novaculus on September 9, 2012 at 6:33 PM

how well do you like that ksg? have you put a lot of rounds thru it? Im one of the folks who has bad luck with that manufacturer. it is a single data point, so I’m not going to denigrate them. it was just disappointing.

tom daschle concerned on September 9, 2012 at 6:39 PM

Harbingeing on September 9, 2012 at 6:11 PM

Tha Kel-Tec is really interesting. Not suitable for someone who doesn’t shoot and only wants a self-defense gun, but a Hell of a lot of firepower in a small package.

The idea has been around for a while though. Have you ever seen one of these?

novaculus on September 9, 2012 at 6:40 PM

You have to ask yourself…if our government is to be benign under another Obama administration, why are government non defense agencies buying over 3/4 of a BILLION rounds of ammo?

Anyway, I bought two rifles this month, my first gun buys in many years.

JIMV on September 9, 2012 at 6:47 PM

Well, I’ve put probably 300-400 rounds thru it now without a hiccup. Plus, a lot of that was using up a bunch of old and really random leftover shells that had been accumulating for years, too. All different loads and shot sizes, not the slightest problem, though with Kel-Tec I was certainly expecting at least some feed problems.

The only unpleasant surprise was finding that if you’re not wearing gloves, there’s a retainer with a really sharp edge that will eventually cut into your thumb tip when you are loading the magazine after 50 rounds or so anyway. They could also provide a little better padding for your shoulder – after 3-4 boxes of ammo I was getting sore.

It took a fair amount of practice to learn how to strip it down, clean and reassemble quickly, but once you see the “trick” to it, (positioning of the bolt, and the double-feed eliminator (DFE) link during reassembly) it’s pretty simple.

Harbingeing on September 9, 2012 at 7:02 PM

Mine is a Kimber in .40. But I’m working on that as I post. Setting up the acquisition of a mil spec in .45. Trying to find out what my brother can pick up for me sooner rather than later. Problem is I’m seeing prices for factory .45 ACP up around $45/50 around here.

Yoop on September 9, 2012 at 6:00 PM

I’m not the world’s best shot. That’s why I like the larger rounds. .38 and 9mm just aren’t worth the effort.

Try “cheaper than dirt.” Seem like a good site. Good prices.

JellyToast on September 9, 2012 at 7:11 PM

tom daschle concerned on September 9, 2012 at 6:08 PM

Yoop on September 9, 2012 at 6:18 PM

cozmo on September 9, 2012 at 6:32 PM

novaculus on September 9, 2012 at 6:33 PM

Thanks, guys. Think I’ll hold off on the Judge.

petefrt on September 9, 2012 at 7:14 PM

JellyToast on September 9, 2012 at 7:11 PM

Yep, Cheaper Than Dirt… and Ammoman. Also Bud’s Gun Shop.

petefrt on September 9, 2012 at 7:19 PM

The idea has been around for a while though. Have you ever seen one of these?

novaculus on September 9, 2012 at 6:40 PM

Wow! I’ve never seen one of those! Pretty radical for its day too. The 26″ overall length really facilitates the close-quarter maneuvering that a home defense is likely to require. What I really liked about the Kel-Tec was the 14+1 magazine capacity (12+1 with 3″ shells). My FNH 5.7×28 magazine holds 26 rounds! I just like the idea of not needing to reload in the vast majority of circumstances.

Harbingeing on September 9, 2012 at 7:19 PM

You have to ask yourself…if our government is to be benign under another Obama administration, why are government non defense agencies buying over 3/4 of a BILLION rounds of ammo?

JIMV on September 9, 2012 at 6:47 PM

I’m hazarding a guess that they’re doing so for the same reason private citizens are going on a gun-buying spree: preparing for civil disorder of one brand or another in the near future.

Or in other words, they ain’t gonna start anything (which would be way beyond their pay grade), but they’re sure as heck not going to be caught with their pants down when somebody ELSE lights the powder keg.

MelonCollie on September 9, 2012 at 7:43 PM

The SPAS-12 was overly complicated, stiff and heavy to make for a good shotgun unless you practice with it often. That is my gun, and I think it is to heavy, to complicated and too stiff to use for home defense.

cozmo on September 9, 2012 at 1:22 PM

I absolutely agree, cozmo. I owned one once, but it really didn’t fit the bill – despite not even requiring the shick-shack of chambering a round to put the bad guys in fear for their lives.

GWB on September 9, 2012 at 8:10 PM

Considering the armed cadre at Homeland Security and elsewhere is only a few tens of thousands, does not 3/4 BILLION rounds seem excessive for any possible job?

JIMV on September 9, 2012 at 8:13 PM

That isn’t what nathor said at all. He was quite reasonably questioning the rationale of allowing political events to influence one’s gun purchasing decisions.

MJBrutus on September 9, 2012 at 1:49 PM

Political events are a very good thing to influence your buying decisions. It’s actually why the 2d Amendment is there.

GWB on September 9, 2012 at 8:13 PM

Yoop on September 9, 2012 at 6:00 PM

I’ve got the KImber Pro-Carry in .45 ACP and also a standard Colt 1911 Model, Series 80, that has had some refinement done. I’ve thought about getting something different, mainly from a weight standpoint, but I’m so used to the shooting characteristics and mechanisms, I really wouldn’t feel comfortable with anything else. The 1911 mechanics are all like an old, well broken in pair of shoes. So, I’m good.

a capella on September 9, 2012 at 8:25 PM

That isn’t what nathor said at all. He was quite reasonably questioning the rationale of allowing political events to influence one’s gun purchasing decisions.

MJBrutus on September 9, 2012 at 1:49 PM

Political events are a very good thing to influence your buying decisions. It’s actually why the 2d Amendment is there.

So are people just planning an armed insurrection if Obama is re-elected or what? Suddenly the line between terrorist and “freedom fighter” is going to get a lot blurrier for the right.

libfreeordie on September 9, 2012 at 2:21 PM

If you can’t tell the difference, then you really aren’t smart enough to be discussing politics here.

humm?
who should protect my freedoms as specified by the constitution then? I give you a hint, the constitution says that the army should do it!

nathor on September 9, 2012 at 2:40 PM

Really? Where in the Constitution does it say that? Because I was always under the impression that it was up to me to protect my rights under the Constitution. Article and Section, please.

GWB on September 9, 2012 at 8:27 PM

its the police and army role to intervene in riots and they did!

nathor on September 9, 2012 at 3:57 PM

And, it’s your duty to protect yourself and your loved ones and your property. Sorry, but if you don’t understand that, then you really don’t get Natural Law.

GWB on September 9, 2012 at 8:45 PM

then you really don’t get Natural Law.

GWB on September 9, 2012 at 8:45 PM

I have yet to see anything that nathor does get.

– despite not even requiring the shick-shack of chambering a round to put the bad guys in fear for their lives.

GWB on September 9, 2012 at 8:10 PM

But it was the first of the “assault shotguns”. For all its flaws, it is still pretty hard to beat for the awesome factor. Maybe the Spas-15…

In the mid 80′s, the Spas and the Desert Eagle were cutting edge technology in firearms.

cozmo on September 9, 2012 at 8:52 PM

The people I know have multiple weapons, thousands of rounds of ammo, more than one large gun safe, and all are fine upstanding people in the community. These “bitter clingers” are flying under the radar. I don’t know what they’re going to do with these arsenals, since they are not anarchists, just churchgoers and Little League people. I guess if the other side wants to unilaterally disarm, then go ahead. Oh yes, these guys just bought their AR-15 from Wal-mart. They have a wonderful collection to choose from, and the cheapest and best stocked ammo. Wal-mart knows all about making money.

rickreyn on September 9, 2012 at 8:53 PM

At the firearms shop I frequent, Barry has been salesman of the month since he won the last election. They have a poster on the wall of Barry with “Salesman of the Month since 2008″ on it.

Same old same old in PA.

Philly on September 9, 2012 at 9:08 PM

Although nothing too drastic has come out of the current administration in terms of gun regulations

Wow. Just Wow. WOW. Hey Erika I suggest you WAKE UP and see what already went down. FAST AND FURIOUS??? All about setting up a 2nd Amendment destruction brigade. On the lives of thousands of Mexicans no less.

Then theres the TWO (not one but TWO) attempts to shutdown all once-fired brass from being recovered and resold to reloaders. BTW once-fired brass reloaded is a favorite of Law Enforcement all over the country for cost effective practice too.

The first one was railed upon by LE.

The second attempt required the intervention of SEVERAL CONGRESSMEN to thwart the order via DoD.

Ammo, brass, powders, primers, lead and copper, all firearms are useless without them. The enemy KNOWS THIS.

Those aren’t “regulations” but they are dastardly cowardly attacks on honest citizens and our rights.

orbitalair on September 9, 2012 at 9:08 PM

What a pathetic and pathetically ignorant leade. It’s a stupid headline, too. The ‘OBama bounce’ started in October of 2008 and it’s never really slacked. It’s shifted around to different areas of focus, handgus, ARs, milsurp rifles and ammo, ammo, ammo, ammo, but it has never truly slacked over the last 47 months.
Just go look at the FBI monthly and year-to-year comparisons of NICS checks, see teh huge increase in documented gun purchases. See teh incessant articles and postings about ammo shortages and price increases. See the dozens of AR manufacturers / assemblers that are running extra shifts and overtime, both from demand and out of fear of government interventionism, thus preventing said businesses from actually expanding to meet the overwhelming market need. They won’t spend the money to expand their infrastructure and staffs, out of the same small-business concerns that are crimping our “recovery”.
Ruger recently SHUT DOWN taking new orders because they had a MILLION gun backlog. Other manufacturers are similarly busy (if not quite to that degree). Quite contrary to the artificial BS churned out by anti-gun groups and illiberal media, gun ownership is increasing, widening and deepening. People are arming up. They know where this national course leads and are determined to defend themselves against predators, the desperate and against their own increasingly-totalitarian government(s), if necessary.

rayra on September 9, 2012 at 9:27 PM

Buy a gun on election day, shut down the background check computers, just like black Friday……;-)

angrymike on September 9, 2012 at 12:35 PM

Ditto. There are a few web/blog campaigns pushing this idea for months now. I plan to buy one on election day. Not before and not after. Doesn’t matter who gets elected, the 2nd is sacrosanct.

oryguncon on September 9, 2012 at 10:46 PM

Really? Where in the Constitution does it say that? Because I was always under the impression that it was up to me to protect my rights under the Constitution. Article and Section, please.

GWB on September 9, 2012 at 8:27 PM

ARTICLE 1, SECTION 8

The Congress shall have Power:

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress….

ARTICLE II, SECTION 2

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States….

in the constitution, its the “militia” that is supposed to “execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections” and this militia is just another branch of the armed forces controlled by the president(meaning, they cannot act on their own)
I think the modern equivalent of militia is the national guard.

nathor on September 10, 2012 at 11:17 AM

Yes, but the “militia” had to be called up, and the NG has to be “Nationalized”, for the President and Congress to assert control over them.
NG’s report to their respective Governors, and the Militia, until it was called into service, was just a group of guys getting together to stay in practice.

Another Drew on September 10, 2012 at 4:20 PM

—like reinstating the assault weapons ban and closing the gun show loophole—so that guns do not fall into the hands of those irresponsible, law-breaking few.

This AWB was a complete failure, as we predicited, and the FBI confirmed in their own review of it! There is no gun show loop-hole. PRIVATE PROPERTY being sold by one person to another is NOT A LOOP-HOLE.

TX-96 on September 10, 2012 at 6:39 PM

@ PappyD61 on September 9, 2012 at 2:07 PM

My cold dead hands…and those of my MAG.

For most of you I agree mossberg 500 in 12 or 20 ga. The safety tang is on top which means it can be used as easily by “lefties” as “righties”. Next a good revolver preferably a 357 (you can practice using 38spl most of the time and occasionaly use a few actual .357′s so you know what it feels like).

Personal goals have bene putting basic staples aside for about a year now. One Rifle and one sidearm per family member.

In order of go to (zombie invasion)

Mossberg 500 in 20ga (easier to handle for the light shooters)
Ruger GP141 in .357
Sig Sauer SP2022in 9mm
(2) Marlin 22LR rifles
Hipoint Carbine in 9mm
AR15 in 223…hand assembled

Good luck and see yall on the other side!

RedLizard64 on September 11, 2012 at 11:09 AM

Arkansas, most gun friendly state in the entire nation. We don’t call it a gun shop, we call it an Armory.

Dino V on September 11, 2012 at 5:36 PM

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