Heartbreak: Chinese government none too happy with Romney’s agenda

posted at 7:01 pm on September 1, 2012 by Erika Johnsen

Wait, so the state-controlled media of a self-proclaimed communist nation that brutally oppresses its people and continuously flouts the rules of free-trade and international cooperation, isn’t endorsing Romney for president? I think I can feel my heart breaking.

China’s official news agency on Wednesday criticised what it called a “blame-China game” by US presidential candidate Mitt Romney, a day after he formally secured the Republican nomination. …

“While it is convenient for US politicians to hammer China and blame China for their own problems, they should be fully aware that their words and deeds are poisoning the general atmosphere of US-China relations,” it said. …

He has pledged to brand China a “currency manipulator” on his first day in office, a move that could enable retaliatory sanctions and that the Obama administration declined to take in May. …

Obama has issued tamer criticisms of the Asian giant, announcing during a campaign stop last month that his government had filed a complaint against it with the World Trade Organization over a tariff on American automobiles.

Oh, give me a break — blame, shmame. The Chinese ruling elites are overly-sensitive about anyone pointing out their very obvious, glaring flaws and daring to not be bullied by their endless effronteries, because they have to feed their own repressed populace with a constant stream of jingoistic waffle to keep their precarious governing situation locked down.

I have long maintained that the rise of a more wealthy China is in no way a necessarily scary prospect. The beautiful thing about prosperity is that there’s no finite supply of it that we need to fight over — it just keeps on growing, and there’s absolutely no reason that every single person on the planet couldn’t enjoy the same level of material comfort that we by and large enjoy in the western world. Free trade is not a zero-sum game, everybody benefits, and a more productive, successful, competitive China would only help to heighten worldwide prosperity and innovation.

China has long since realized that they would indeed like to be an economic superpower, and if they’re ever to have even the slightest hope of getting on our economic level (right now, they aren’t even close), they’re going to be forced to implement political reforms, too. Repressing your people’s freedom of speech and religion and shutting down their opportunities for upward mobility is no way to unleash their ingenuity and entrepreneurship, and a more democratic China would benefit all parties.

Romney understands this.

“We will welcome the emergence of a peaceful and prosperous China, and we will welcome even more the development of a democratic China,” the [RNC] draft platform reads. “Its rulers have discovered that economic freedom leads to national wealth. The next lesson is that political and religious freedom lead to national greatness. The exposure of the Chinese people to our way of lifecan be the greatest force for change in their country.

The problem is that, right now, China is still attempting to compete on a free-market level, without abiding by free-market rules. They’re not trying to make China more democratic, they’re trying to see how much they can accomplish by testing just how much the rest of the world will allow them to get away with: Intellectual piracy, currency manipulation, rampant corruption, mind-blowing fiscal failures, international perfidy, etcetera. But here’s the thing: It’s not working out too well for them.

The latest news from Beijing is indicative of Chinese weakness: a persistent slowdown of economic growth, a glut of unsold goods, rising bad bank loans, a bursting real estate bubble, and a vicious power struggle at the top, coupled with unending political scandals. Many factors that have powered China’s rise, such as the demographic dividend, disregard for the environment, supercheap labor, and virtually unlimited access to external markets, are either receding or disappearing. …

The current economic slowdown in Beijing is neither cyclical nor the result of weak external demand for Chinese goods. China’s economic ills are far more deeply rooted: an overbearing state squandering capital and squeezing out the private sector, systemic inefficiency and lack of innovation, a rapacious ruling elite interested solely in self-enrichment and the perpetuation of its privileges, a woefully underdeveloped financial sector, and mounting ecological and demographic pressures.

I’m rather of the opinion that China’s communist bubble is well on its way to popping almost regardless of what we do, but it’s still important to stand up to their continual bullying and let them know that we are not easy subjects for a run-around. It’s quite the sticky wicket, and I don’t pretend to know all the exact answers, but Romney highlighting their underhanded security dealings, their widespread human rights abuses, and their refusal to abide by free-trade rules aren’t a bad start — I know that communist regimes don’t usually like it when they don’t get their way and anybody in the wide world dares to challenge them, but tough beans.

And to finish, just two quick parting thoughts:

1. We often accuse China’s communist government of being overly-protectionist with tariffs and whatnot, but we’re guilty of plenty of that ourselves.

2. Heads up, greenies — you think that free enterprise is bad for the environment? Communism should be the Environmentalist Movement’s Public Enemy Number One!


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Free trade is not a zero-sum game

But the balance of power is. And that is why you should be fearful of China’s ascendancy.

Stoic Patriot on September 1, 2012 at 7:05 PM

Of course a prosperous China is enemy #1 for Greenies. Prosperous countries start to concern themselves with their local environments, and if China starts to do that, then where will the cheap but dirty to produce solar panels come from?

JSchuler on September 1, 2012 at 7:07 PM

If China doesn’t like Romney, that’s good reason to vote for Romney.

Corporal Tunnel on September 1, 2012 at 7:08 PM

The Chinese ruling elites are Obama is overly-sensitive about anyone pointing out their his very obvious, glaring flaws

FIFY

dirtseller on September 1, 2012 at 7:09 PM

The Chinese can smoke my dog whistle for all I care. If there ever were a perfectly good case for a Constitution violation, it would be skipping on “full faith and credit” by flipping a flaming bird to the Chinese stack of bonds.

Archivarix on September 1, 2012 at 7:10 PM

Of course. The ChiComs would rather have us happily in decline being led by a Maoist-Marxist who LOVES leading America into weakness.

wildcat72 on September 1, 2012 at 7:11 PM

We should send Joe BiChung over there to calm their fears.

AubieJon on September 1, 2012 at 7:11 PM

I don’t care if they liked Eastwood’s skit or not.

faraway on September 1, 2012 at 7:12 PM

The Chinese can smoke my dog whistle for all I care. If there ever were a perfectly good case for a Constitution violation, it would be skipping on “full faith and credit” by flipping a flaming bird to the Chinese stack of bonds.

Archivarix on September 1, 2012 at 7:10 PM

Something oft unreported is that the Chinese owe us massively when it comes to bonds, but they repudiated their debt.

Stoic Patriot on September 1, 2012 at 7:13 PM

Bummer – first the Russians now the Chinese

If those aren’t two reasons to vote for Romney/Ryan – I don’t know what is.

gophergirl on September 1, 2012 at 7:13 PM

So when will Hussein start fundraising in Buddhist temples ?

burrata on September 1, 2012 at 7:14 PM

BidenChan: “Ancient ancestor once say, “Words cannot cook rice.”

faraway on September 1, 2012 at 7:17 PM

Mitt’s right, communist China’s been giving us the wagon shaft for a long time, kind of like a crooked bank that owns the company store.

Speakup on September 1, 2012 at 7:18 PM

Something oft unreported is that the Chinese owe us massively when it comes to bonds, but they repudiated their debt.

Stoic Patriot on September 1, 2012 at 7:13 PM

If we let the repudiation slip it’s a matter gone by, unfortunately. However, just the value of stolen intellectual property alone would likely make the trillion-and-change we allegedly owe them a very paltry sum.

Archivarix on September 1, 2012 at 7:18 PM

So when will Hussein start fundraising in Buddhist temples ?

burrata on September 1, 2012 at 7:14 PM

He doesn’t need to. Who do you think sent him about 200 million bucks in anonymous credit cards for $198.23 in 2008?

Archivarix on September 1, 2012 at 7:20 PM

Awww. Things aren’t going gangbusters with the Chinese economy, apparently. They have produced a glut of goods and probably will have to flood the market. Seems they continued to produce in anticipation of an improvement in the world economy. It never happened. Not good news.

Look who else is not doing so well: GM. Just canned a whole line of hybrid trucks and SUVs right before production was to start. I smell bankruptcy wafting in the air.

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/08/31/gm-cancels-next-gen-hybrid-truck-suv-program/?icid=maing-grid10%7Chtmlws-main-bb%7Cdl2%7Csec3_lnk2%26pLid%3D200198

Philly on September 1, 2012 at 7:22 PM

The Chinese ruling elites are overly-sensitive about anyone pointing out their very obvious, glaring flaws

Gee, what other world power has an overly-sensitive leader head of government who lashes back at anyone pointing out his very obvious, glaring flaws? (Two point question.)

RoadRunner on September 1, 2012 at 7:24 PM

Sounds like Mitt got another thing right in my view.

Ozwitch on September 1, 2012 at 7:24 PM

Feck china. I’m sick of those double dealing commies trying over and over again to disrupt and destroy this country. I hope they choke on their overly full warehouses of low quality crap.

China is worse than russia, bunch of commie freaks. Time to evolve cretins, your time on the surface of this planet is coming to an end if you don’t.

Wolfmoon on September 1, 2012 at 7:24 PM

China is a legitimate military threat but if we were to ever find ourselves at war with the we would quickly overwhelm them.

I’m a logistics professional and have been to China and worked with the Chinese. They are not capable of competing with us because of their culture. They have very little individual initiative, can’t seem to see the “big picture”, and discourage individual action and thought.

When I have to deal with our Chinese partners it is very frustrating. What seems to be common sense and very elementary to us completely baffles them. They are good people, they just don’t have our history of rewarding individual initiative that has created our nation of very competitive problem solvers. We in the West are helping China create a new generation of Western thinkers but it will take a long time before they have sufficient influence to make China a real challenge to us.

Charlemagne on September 1, 2012 at 7:26 PM

Well china, WE here in the US, so far, have free elections to deal with the likes of your dandy country? If you don’t like OUR choice for president, how about your china take the one now in the wh(he at one time thought it was great no one in you country could plow up snakes like we can here)! I will put a few bucks to ship bho to live his worthless life with you! And to boot, I will put more bucks for mo to follow!
L

letget on September 1, 2012 at 7:29 PM

So lets see,…Russia…Iran…and now China not happy about the prospect of a Romney presidency…while Britan, Israel and Poland are?

Come on November…..Time to fill that “empty” chair!

LaRepublican on September 1, 2012 at 7:30 PM

The Chinese love Kung-Pao Huntsman.

Philly on September 1, 2012 at 7:31 PM

I’m a logistics professional and have been to China and worked with the Chinese. They are not capable of competing with us because of their culture. They have very little individual initiative, can’t seem to see the “big picture”, and discourage individual action and thought.

Charlemagne on September 1, 2012 at 7:26 PM

That’s why we have to win this election now and start turning the tide on the statist policies that the dems and RINOs have been pursuing. We have to take back our schools and start teaching the basics of free market economics and roll back choking government regulations. Otherwise we are going to have next generations inculcated in that same individualism-choking mindset that besets other countries in the world. That is American exceptionalism, the ability of individuals, not the state to determine their future. That is why the “you didn’t build that” mindset is so devastating, it removes individualism and replaces it with collectivism.

AZfederalist on September 1, 2012 at 7:37 PM

China doesn’t like Romney? Alright already, I’m voting for Romney. You can stop trying to convince me. I get it. :)

hadsil on September 1, 2012 at 7:41 PM

Romney is wrong-headed on China. The federal government needs to get its own fiscal house in order and it’s looking like that Romney isn’t the man to do it. That’s why I believe he’s out after one term.

rickv404 on September 1, 2012 at 7:47 PM

So Romney must be doing something right. And it’s apparent that the Chinese have learned from the Obama Book of Indignant Leadership. I can’t wait until we get our energy independence, pay off the Chinese and then bask in a financial windfall selling all our extra oil and natural gas to them.

stukinIL4now on September 1, 2012 at 7:48 PM

Who wouldn’t be mad, losing a sweet deal like this:

For example, in a transaction by the Obama White House that’s sure to anger most Americans — if the news media ever bother to tell them — the People’s Republic of China and other nations get millions of U.S. taxpayer dollars to help with their so-called green projects. The outrageous part of the story is that the U.S. is indebted to China for almost a trillion dollars, according to a vocal critic of outsourcing on Friday.

“President Barack Obama has kept his promise to create green jobs and green technology. The only setback is that he created the jobs and technology in other countries using suffering American taxpayers’ money,” claimed political consultant Michael Barker during a telephone interview with Examiner.

I mean, who wouldn’t like someone to borrow money from them with interest, then have them gift that cash right back?

Rebar on September 1, 2012 at 7:49 PM

I’m a logistics professional and have been to China and worked with the Chinese. They are not capable of competing with us because of their culture. They have very little individual initiative, can’t seem to see the “big picture”, and discourage individual action and thought.
Charlemagne on September 1, 2012 at 7:26 PM

Have you been to Hong Kong?

As long as Mainland China continues to provide slave labor to Hong Kong, they will remain competitive. Once that situation is reversed, Hong Kong will stop being economically competitive and China will become an existential threat to the free world.

logis on September 1, 2012 at 7:50 PM

The chinese commies, Putin, hugo chavez all support OBOZO. How stupid do you have to be to fail to understand that if they support him, no rational, sane human being should support him?

TeaPartyNation on September 1, 2012 at 7:50 PM

China’s official news agency on Wednesday criticised what it called a “blame-China game” by US presidential candidate Mitt Romney, a day after he formally secured the Republican nomination. …
========================================================

Maybe…..Romney needs to bow lower than Hopey,
surely,that would/should work!!!
(sarc)

canopfor on September 1, 2012 at 7:50 PM

The problem is that, right now, China is still attempting to compete on a free-market level, without abiding by free-market rules.

Ain’t that the toof

Ugly on September 1, 2012 at 7:52 PM

Of course China is not to happy with Romney, he understands their agendas and wants to put America first. China has grown to like their relationship with their Marxist cohort, Obama and a change would be most disturbing for them.

rplat on September 1, 2012 at 7:56 PM

…in the 2008 campaign…guess they forgot about JugEars and his comments about Bush and the Chinese checkbook!

KOOLAID2 on September 1, 2012 at 8:03 PM

Free trade is not a zero-sum game, everybody benefits, and a more productive, successful, competitive China would only help to heighten worldwide prosperity and innovation.

Barry ocommie is desperate to show the opposite, that nobody benefits from free trade except the rich, and the only way to level that out is through trashing the constitution by way of social justice, a dog-whistle-codeword for communism barry style.

Too many in this country are too damned dumb to figure out what this country is really about. I think it’s a case of activists in the 60′s becoming parents, and they fail badly because they loved lenin. Both of them, may they burn in hell.

Wolfmoon on September 1, 2012 at 8:05 PM

****** Fact Check Ryan Alert **************

Yes,its getting that petty…..

Sep 1, 6:33 PM EDT
Ryan says he misstated marathon claim
**************************************
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_RYAN_MARATHON?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-09-01-18-33-17

canopfor on September 1, 2012 at 8:07 PM

My theory? If you are not a favorite with the Chinese, Russians, North Koreans, Cubans or Iranians – you are doing something right!

mouell on September 1, 2012 at 8:08 PM

I figured we would hear from China.

I will say that the only part of Romney’s speech that made me a little uneasy was the directness with which he called out China.

He’s been doing it in the campaign, too. I support getting tougher on China. It was one thing for Reagan to call out the Soviets; Asian peoples have a greater sensitivity to “loss of face.” They are not as direct as Westerners. I am concerned that Mitt may be being a little too publicly strident.

I would prefer a more behind-the-scenes pressure from the next president, and IMO Romney would do well to remember the “face” issue. No sense in creating an unnecessarily public tension with the Chinese, if he wants to succeed in actually calling them to account for currency manipulation, copyright infringement, etc.

cane_loader on September 1, 2012 at 8:12 PM

When you’ve lost China…Oh, wait.

Cleombrotus on September 1, 2012 at 8:14 PM

They like Obama becasue of one of their oldest proverbs.

“When small men cast long shadows, you know the sun is setting.”

Cleombrotus on September 1, 2012 at 8:18 PM

We should send Joe BiChung over there to calm their fears.

AubieJon on September 1, 2012 at 7:11 PM

Wasn’t he over there when he essentially endorsed their one child/family, forced abortion program?

a capella on September 1, 2012 at 8:18 PM

Something oft unreported is that the Chinese owe us massively when it comes to bonds, but they repudiated their debt.

Stoic Patriot on September 1, 2012 at 7:13 PM

Thanks for that excellent link!

I had no idea about the Chinese refusing to pay American bondholders. It does make me wonder how many of these bonds lie locked in the Fed vaults, and to what effect they have been leveraged by U.S. administrations as we have run up the Chinese credit card. Very, very interesting report.

cane_loader on September 1, 2012 at 8:21 PM

Thanks for that excellent link!

I had no idea about the Chinese refusing to pay American bondholders. It does make me wonder how many of these bonds lie locked in the Fed vaults, and to what effect they have been leveraged by U.S. administrations as we have run up the Chinese credit card. Very, very interesting report.

cane_loader on September 1, 2012 at 8:21 PM

The money is owed by the ROC, not the PRC.

DarkCurrent on September 1, 2012 at 8:27 PM

Best endorsement that Mitt can get.

Dingbat63 on September 1, 2012 at 8:28 PM

The money is owed by the ROC, not the PRC.

DarkCurrent on September 1, 2012 at 8:27 PM

Watching the report, the bonds specifically bound successor governments to pay. That means, in plainspeak, a case can be made that any government claiming to be the ruling government of the land enclosed by the boundaries of a country called China, ruling the desscendants of the people who were ruled by the old government, is on the hook. to repay those bonds.

cane_loader on September 1, 2012 at 8:40 PM

2. Heads up, greenies — you think that free enterprise is bad for the environment? Communism should be the Environmentalist Movement’s Public Enemy Number One!

I know this is just rhetoric and you know better, but the “Environmental Movement” isn’t about the environment. It’s about control. The left is using it to gain control of the means of production in the West.

The Environmental Movement had some roots in a good and worthy cause, but it has long since morphed into a vehicle for the left to get control of Western economies.

jaime on September 1, 2012 at 8:47 PM

Watching the report, the bonds specifically bound successor governments to pay. That means, in plainspeak, a case can be made that any government claiming to be the ruling government of the land enclosed by the boundaries of a country called China, ruling the desscendants of the people who were ruled by the old government, is on the hook. to repay those bonds.

cane_loader on September 1, 2012 at 8:40 PM

Since the ROC continues to exist and certainly doesn’t recognize the PRC as it’s successor that argument doesn’t fly.

DarkCurrent on September 1, 2012 at 8:48 PM

Show me your friends, and I’ll tell you what you are.

OldEnglish on September 1, 2012 at 8:49 PM

And how do you bind a successor government to your bonds anyway?

DarkCurrent on September 1, 2012 at 8:50 PM

And how do you bind a successor government to your bonds anyway?

DarkCurrent on September 1, 2012 at 8:50 PM

Agreed – it’s a Western concept (govt by the people…).

OldEnglish on September 1, 2012 at 8:55 PM

Agreed – it’s a Western concept (govt by the people…).

OldEnglish on September 1, 2012 at 8:55 PM

I suppose that’s why the US government paid off Confederate war debt. Oh wait…

DarkCurrent on September 1, 2012 at 8:57 PM

Since the ROC continues to exist and certainly doesn’t recognize the PRC as it’s successor that argument doesn’t fly.

DarkCurrent on September 1, 2012 at 8:48 PM

The USA recognizing the PRC as the legitimate government of China, kinda blows a hole in that theory.

Rebar on September 1, 2012 at 8:59 PM

China is worse than russia, bunch of commie freaks. Time to evolve cretins, your time on the surface of this planet is coming to an end if you don’t.

Wolfmoon on September 1, 2012 at 7:24 PM

Really? Planning on telling a civilization that has a 5000 year history that their time is coming to an end?

JohnGalt23 on September 1, 2012 at 9:01 PM

The USA recognizing the PRC as the legitimate government of China, kinda blows a hole in that theory.

Rebar on September 1, 2012 at 8:59 PM

1. The ROC which issued the bonds does not recognize the PRC as the legitimate government of China.

2. The US didn’t require the PRC to honor ROC-issued bonds as a condition for diplomatic recognition.

There’s two big holes.

DarkCurrent on September 1, 2012 at 9:06 PM

Really? Planning on telling a civilization that has a 5000 year history that their time is coming to an end?

JohnGalt23 on September 1, 2012 at 9:01 PM

It’s more like 4,000 years really, but of course China will exists for the rest of human history.

DarkCurrent on September 1, 2012 at 9:09 PM

DarkCurrent on September 1, 2012 at 9:06 PM

The PRC controls the territory, people, and infrastructure of the former government. An excellent case can be made that the PRC is indeed on the hook for those bonds.

Since we’re going to default on our bonds to them – debts that cannot be paid won’t be paid – it would give some semblance of tit-for-tat if we demand payment which will be of course be denied.

Rebar on September 1, 2012 at 9:12 PM

The PRC controls the territory, people, and infrastructure of the former government. An excellent case can be made that the PRC is indeed on the hook for those bonds.

Since we’re going to default on our bonds to them – debts that cannot be paid won’t be paid – it would give some semblance of tit-for-tat if we demand payment which will be of course be denied.

Rebar on September 1, 2012 at 9:12 PM

The PRC does not in fact control all of Chinese territory, and since the bond issuing entity itself still exists and refuses to acknowledge the PRC as it’s successor, there’s no case to be made that the PRC is responsible for this debt.

Here’s the reaction I got yesterday morning when I reminded the Chinese they owed us a trillion dollars

DarkCurrent on September 1, 2012 at 9:19 PM

The PRC does not in fact control all of Chinese territory

DarkCurrent on September 1, 2012 at 9:19 PM

It controls all the territory controlled at the time by the bond issuer – Taiwan being controlled by Japan at the time.

We’ll have to agree to disagree as to the case that can be made – I maintain that the case is excellent to send the bill to the ChiComs.

Rebar on September 1, 2012 at 9:26 PM

So will this make China’s attempted acquisition of Nexen Petroleum USA and its deepwater Gulf of Mexico properties more or less likely to get regulatory approval?

Troll Feeder on September 1, 2012 at 9:30 PM

It controls all the territory controlled at the time by the bond issuer – Taiwan being controlled by Japan at the time.

We’ll have to agree to disagree as to the case that can be made – I maintain that the case is excellent to send the bill to the ChiComs.

Rebar on September 1, 2012 at 9:26 PM

I suppose you’ll pay up on this loan for $500,000 I’m taking out tomorrow:

“DarkCurrent hereby promises to repay…

… In the event DarkCurrent refuses or is unable to pay, Rebar will be responsible.”

Right?

DarkCurrent on September 1, 2012 at 9:32 PM

DarkCurrent on September 1, 2012 at 9:32 PM

Individuals are not governments, international law is such that new governments are responsible for the legal obligations of the old. Wars have been fought over this point.

Rebar on September 1, 2012 at 9:36 PM

feed their own repressed populace with a constant stream of jingoistic waffle to keep their precarious governing situation locked down.

I’m sorry — this is just freakin’ awesome. Nice work! Calls to mind a certain quote from a certain (hopefully) one-term president…

affenhauer on September 1, 2012 at 9:36 PM

Individuals are not governments, international law is such that new governments are responsible for the legal obligations of the old. Wars have been fought over this point.

Rebar on September 1, 2012 at 9:36 PM

Perhaps if the ROC were to agree to recognize the PRC as it’s legitimate successor and turn over all the territories it occupies the PRC might be persuaded to pay off these bonds. Until such time it’s owed by the ROC.

DarkCurrent on September 1, 2012 at 9:42 PM

DarkCurrent on September 1, 2012 at 9:42 PM

Err… Taiwan is not occupied Chinese territory, if anything it’s occupied Japanese territory.

If the USA has legally recognized the PRC as the legitimate government of China, it means legally the PRC are on the hook for those bonds.

Rebar on September 1, 2012 at 9:47 PM

Err… Taiwan is not occupied Chinese territory, if anything it’s occupied Japanese territory.

Rebar on September 1, 2012 at 9:47 PM

Well I suppose by that logic Taiwan is actually occupied Dutch territory…

Both the PRC and ROC consider Taiwan a province of China, the Treaty of Shimonoseki no longer being in force.

Regardless, the fact remains: the entity which issued these bonds still exists and does not recognize any legitimate successor, therefore it and it alone is responsible for their repayment.

DarkCurrent on September 1, 2012 at 9:54 PM

Regardless, the fact remains: the entity which issued these bonds still exists and does not recognize any legitimate successor, therefore it and it alone is responsible for their repayment.

DarkCurrent on September 1, 2012 at 9:54 PM

Just because I claim to be the Grand Duke of the Grand Dutchy of Lithuania, doesn’t make it so.

The ROC can claim whatever it likes, the FACT is the PRC is the legally recognized government of China. Legally recognized. The price for that legal recognition, is it’s now responsible to meet the obligations of the formerly legally recognized government under international law.

Rebar on September 1, 2012 at 9:59 PM

Just because I claim to be the Grand Duke of the Grand Dutchy of Lithuania, doesn’t make it so.

The ROC can claim whatever it likes, the FACT is the PRC is the legally recognized government of China. Legally recognized. The price for that legal recognition, is it’s now responsible to meet the obligations of the formerly legally recognized government under international law.

Rebar on September 1, 2012 at 9:59 PM

I’ll suppose they’ll pay up the day after the United States finally pays up on that Confederate debt. Don’t see it happening though.

DarkCurrent on September 1, 2012 at 10:03 PM

Don’t see it happening though.

DarkCurrent on September 1, 2012 at 10:03 PM

Well, that’s an entirely different issue, and I agree that they would never pay up.

However, the issue can be useful when the US reaches the end of it’s financial rope and defaults on our bonds to them.

Rebar on September 1, 2012 at 10:06 PM

I wish I could print some bonds that legally obligated my unacknowledged successors to pay. I’d be rich!!!

DarkCurrent on September 1, 2012 at 10:07 PM

I wish I could print some bonds that legally obligated my unacknowledged successors to pay. I’d be rich!!!

DarkCurrent on September 1, 2012 at 10:07 PM

Take over a country, get other governments to recognize yours as legitimate, and you can do that very thing.

Rebar on September 1, 2012 at 10:10 PM

However, the issue can be useful when the US reaches the end of it’s financial rope and defaults on our bonds to them.

Rebar on September 1, 2012 at 10:06 PM

That would be the end of the US. Unlike China, America as yet has no deep cultural roots to sustain it. I’d like to see it survive long enough to establish. Hopefully it will.

DarkCurrent on September 1, 2012 at 10:13 PM

Take over a country, get other governments to recognize yours as legitimate, and you can do that very thing.

Rebar on September 1, 2012 at 10:10 PM

Of course the exact opposite is the case with these ROC bonds.

DarkCurrent on September 1, 2012 at 10:15 PM

That would be the end of the US. Unlike China, America as yet has no deep cultural roots to sustain it. I’d like to see it survive long enough to establish. Hopefully it will.

DarkCurrent on September 1, 2012 at 10:13 PM

I see China having one of it’s periodic and enormously bloody c!v!l wars in the near future, but of course there will be a (at least one) China still in existence.

I can see the USA splitting along the red state/blue state divide, we’re pretty much two countries at this point anyway.

Rebar on September 1, 2012 at 10:17 PM

I see China having one of it’s periodic and enormously bloody c!v!l wars in the near future, but of course there will be a (at least one) China still in existence.

Rebar on September 1, 2012 at 10:17 PM

Yeah, it’s brewing just outside my window here. Keep wishcasting.

DarkCurrent on September 1, 2012 at 10:22 PM

The political calculus of Nixon, Kissinger, and G. H. W. Bush in supporting rapprochement and trade relations with Communist China is that wealth and openness would lead to democratization and liberty. Communists are not interested in democratization and liberty. They are interested in conquest. Only a policy of containment and deterrence will enhance the demise of morally bankrupt and brutally repressive Communism in China. It is time to acknowledge the flaws in Nixon’s failed vision, and decouple our economy from Communist nations who seize every available opportunity to arm America’s enemies.

Tripwhipper on September 1, 2012 at 10:23 PM

Since the foundation of the Qing Dynasty in 1644 China has had two major civil wars, The Taiping Rebellion and the Chinese Civil War. Approximately 1 per 2 centuries as compared to the US, which has approximately 1 per 2 centuries.

DarkCurrent on September 1, 2012 at 10:28 PM

Of course the exact opposite is the case with these ROC bonds.

DarkCurrent on September 1, 2012 at 10:15 PM

So, if the ChiComs are kicked out and replaced with a different government, America doesn’t have to repay the new government? We’re all even-steven?

Interesting.

Rebar on September 1, 2012 at 10:31 PM

So, if the ChiComs are kicked out and replaced with a different government, America doesn’t have to repay the new government? We’re all even-steven?

Interesting.

Rebar on September 1, 2012 at 10:31 PM

Sounds fair to me.

DarkCurrent on September 1, 2012 at 10:34 PM

Meanwhile in China, the devil read Hot Air

DarkCurrent on September 1, 2012 at 10:54 PM

DarkCurrent on September 1, 2012 at 10:34 PM

I came along late and was hoping you would be here. I read the argument, such as it was, you won by the way.

Other than the average Chinese thinking the mainland is responsible for the ROC’s debt is funny, what is their take on the gist of this piece? They haven’t read it, but I imagine the subject has been discussed.

I have been wondering that for a while.

Three Gorges is cool, but what does the average citizen think of it?

Same for the Chinese bullet train and the Chinese space program. I ain’t there and am not familiar with the culture. Has the new prosperity given rise to a sense of power among the population? Or, is there still the cultural ties to being a part of the whole?

Not lastly, I have about a zillion questions, what about the male/female ratio?

And internet restrictions? Is it as bad as we are lead to believe?

See, I warned you I had a zillion questions. They keep coming.

cozmo on September 1, 2012 at 10:58 PM

Sounds fair to me.

DarkCurrent on September 1, 2012 at 10:34 PM

Sure, we just need to jettison about 300 years of international law.

No big deal.

Rebar on September 1, 2012 at 11:22 PM

I have long maintained that the rise of a more wealthy China is in no way a necessarily scary prospect. The beautiful thing about prosperity is that there’s no finite supply of it that we need to fight over — it just keeps on growing, and there’s absolutely no reason that every single person on the planet couldn’t enjoy the same level of material comfort that we by and large enjoy in the western world.

Now if only resources and energy were infinite.

Guess the thousands of years of warfare over territory and resources have suddenly come to an end?

Such astonishing denial of reality.

Dr. ZhivBlago on September 1, 2012 at 11:24 PM

Three Gorges is cool, but what does the average citizen think of it?

The average citizen considers it a new source of power they’re glad to have. The people that had to be removed think of it differently, apparently.

Same for the Chinese bullet train and the Chinese space program. I ain’t there and am not familiar with the culture. Has the new prosperity given rise to a sense of power among the population? Or, is there still the cultural ties to being a part of the whole?

China as a whole seems to consider these steps forward.

Not lastly, I have about a zillion questions, what about the male/female ratio?

There are a lot of girls in China.

And internet restrictions? Is it as bad as we are lead to believe?

There are restrictions, but easily undermined.

See, I warned you I had a zillion questions. They keep coming.

cozmo on September 1, 2012 at 10:58 PM

Zhonghua

DarkCurrent on September 1, 2012 at 11:27 PM

Sure, we just need to jettison about 300 years of international law.

No big deal.

Rebar on September 1, 2012 at 11:22 PM

Let’s take up 300 years of “international” law with the Chinese.

That should go over well.

DarkCurrent on September 1, 2012 at 11:30 PM

Hey! We’re gonna raid your coasts and demand concessions!

(all under international law!)

DarkCurrent on September 1, 2012 at 11:33 PM

That should go over well.

DarkCurrent on September 1, 2012 at 11:30 PM

The PRC expects to be treated with respect under international law, but it doesn’t have to adhere to it itself?

Good luck with that.

Rebar on September 1, 2012 at 11:34 PM

Hey! We’re gonna raid your coasts and demand concessions!

(all under international law!)

DarkCurrent on September 1, 2012 at 11:33 PM

I get the feeling that if your fascist slave state did that to America to collect it’s debt, you wouldn’t have the least problem with it.

Rebar on September 1, 2012 at 11:39 PM

The PRC expects to be treated with respect under international law, but it doesn’t have to adhere to it itself?

Good luck with that.

Rebar on September 1, 2012 at 11:34 PM

If you’ve got a grievance take it up with the WTO.

DarkCurrent on September 2, 2012 at 12:01 AM

If you’ve got a grievance take it up with the WTO.

DarkCurrent on September 2, 2012 at 12:01 AM

Oh, we have grievance all right, but we’ll just elect Romney.

Rebar on September 2, 2012 at 12:44 AM

At least the ChiComs love our Vice President Jao-Bi-Dung.

MaiDee on September 2, 2012 at 12:51 AM

Tom Friedman hardest hit.

SittingDeadRed on September 2, 2012 at 1:36 AM

I know this is just rhetoric and you know better, but the “Environmental Movement” isn’t about the environment. It’s about control. The left is using it to gain control of the means of production in the West.

The Environmental Movement had some roots in a good and worthy cause, but it has long since morphed into a vehicle for the left to get control of Western economies.

jaime on September 1, 2012 at 8:47 PM

Correct.

If you don’t understand the above, the rest of this discussion is nonsense.

98ZJUSMC on September 2, 2012 at 6:06 AM

The Chinese don’t like Romney?

Another good reason to vote for him.

AZCoyote on September 2, 2012 at 6:24 AM

Oh, we have grievance all right, but we’ll just elect Romney.

Rebar on September 2, 2012 at 12:44 AM

I’ll join you.

That’s not going to stop America’s on-going long-term decline though, unfortunately.

DarkCurrent on September 2, 2012 at 7:30 AM

The PRC expects to be treated with respect under international law, but it doesn’t have to adhere to it itself?

Good luck with that.

Rebar on September 1, 2012 at 11:34 PM

Yeah, hold that thought.

DarkCurrent on September 2, 2012 at 7:32 AM

What a joy it is to have someone manipulate their currency so that their products are cheaper.

People produce things so that they can consume. People do not produce things just to produce. People are consumers. More goods, more services=more wealth. Romney is smart enough to know that by artificially depressing their currency, the PRC is subsidizing US consumers, which is like getting free money. What a deal. So he’s just a panderer.

Additionally, what do people think the Chinese do with the US Dollars they get? Use as wall paper? The protectionists usually struggle when asked such a question.

Recommend anyone thinks China’s currency policies are bad for the US to read Bastiat’s “Economic Sophisms”

http://www.econlib.org/library/Bastiat/basSoph.html

brogers on September 2, 2012 at 7:53 AM

We have allowed China to steal our manufacturing, we place unrealistic regulations on our manufacturing.

One example, EPA chokes our business with regulations, while China can pollute and do whatever it wants, we can’t compete with that.

They don’t have gov. bureaucrats telling them how bright the lights should be, how high the tables should be, what posters are hung and where, how many eye-wash stations, where licenses are to be hung, the list is endless of government intrusion…each one being “important” and each one adding up to an unbelievable maze of bureaucratic regulations, laws, that demand larger companies to have whole staffs just to keep up with the current regulations.

Want a fine? Don’t hang a poster that OSHA demands you hang…or the county, or the state or the city…

Want a really good finish on your table…go to China, we can’t do it here…want inexpensive high quality printing? Go to China, those inks are illegal here…and if they somehow can be used, the wash system and storage is so costly it’s prohibitive…

Meanwhile, China can do what it wants, create and manufacture what it wants, and the Government supports them.

right2bright on September 2, 2012 at 9:01 AM

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