Gallup: Democrats drop below GOP in pre-convention favorability

posted at 11:21 am on August 30, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

Don’t get too excited by this result, because Republicans weren’t exactly blowing the doors off on favorability with registered voters before the conventions started, either.  However, Democrats are, for the first time since Gallup began surveying on this question, doing worse than Republicans.  And also for the first time, Democrats find themselves underwater — and not by a narrow margin, either (via Instapundit):

In the lead-up to this year’s presidential convention period, 44% of registered voters held a favorable view of the Republican Party and 43% of the Democratic Party. While the Republicans’ favorable rating is similar to where it stood before the conventions kicked off in 2008, the Democrats’ is 11 percentage points lower. It is also the lowest pre-conventions favorable score the Democrats have received among voters in Gallup records dating to 1992. …

The relatively low ratings for both parties likely reflect Americans’ broader dissatisfaction with the country’s direction and government leaders, including Congress. The parity of ratings mirrors the political polarization Gallup sees in national party identification, and contrasts with 2008, when the Democratic Party entered the convention period with a significant image advantage. However, historically, it is not unusual for the parties to have similar ratings at this point in an election year, including in 2004, 2000, and 1992.

How has party identification changed since 2008? In a survey taken the week after the election, the D/R/I split was 33/28/37, but with leaners it was 51/40 Democrats.  In April 2009, it reached a peak of 53/34, a nearly 20-point spread.  Now, it stands at 29/26/42, with Democrats holding a 3-point lead at 44/43 when counting leaners.  Keep in mind that this is a general-population poll, not a turnout model, too.

Let’s get back to the pre-convention favorability ratings.  Four years ago, Republicans limped into St. Paul with a 41/51 favorability.  That’s not much improved this year at 44/50.  Prior to 2008, the GOP routinely had narrow majorities of favorability between 50-53%.  Even with the big midterm win, the Republican Party has not experienced a renaissance of respectability, at least not yet.

Democrats, though, have cratered in the era of Hope and Change.  In 2008, they had a +15 at 54/39, in line with their ratings in every election since 1992 except 2004′s 48/40.  This year, they hit 43/52, a -9 favorability, and a 24-point swing from four years ago.  Those are the wages of disillusionment.  Where did the love go?  The Democratic Party lost 15 points in favorability among men (51% in 2008, 36% today), 17 points among those 35-54 (56% to 39%), and eight points for those 55 and older (53% to 41%).  Among white voters, favorability dropped 17 points to just 33% today.

The independent demo should probably worry Democrats most.  It’s relatively unchanged for the GOP, increasing a single point from 2008 to 38%.  For Democrats, though, favorability dropped twelve points from 47% to 35% — putting them slightly behind Republicans in favorability.  That will impact races all the way down the ballot, and shows that the Democratic post-midterm strategy has been a huge flop.


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That’s the ticket!!

Scrumpy on August 30, 2012 at 11:24 AM

. It is also the lowest pre-conventions favorable score the Democrats have received among voters in Gallup records dating to 1992.

Oh….YEAH! Looks like people are tired of Hopeinchains!

thatsafactjack on August 30, 2012 at 11:25 AM

Polls shmolls, I don’t believe them…

Like Christie said, we don’t need no *stinking* polls!

* I added that for emphasis… :-)

Scrumpy on August 30, 2012 at 11:26 AM

Romney gets to open his campaign chest now.

Let the ads fly!

Wino on August 30, 2012 at 11:27 AM

Democrats find themselves underwater

How can you party while a black man is polling underwater?

faraway on August 30, 2012 at 11:27 AM

I’m going to withhold my excitement until the end of the DNC. I’m hoping that Romney gives an eventful speech today which will give us a bump, but the DNC will give the Dems a bump too. However…

It is possible that once the DNC’s “abortapalooza” kicks into gear, voters will realize that they have no real plan to jump-start the economy. If they concentrate soley on social issues the DNC might just hurt them.

Meric1837 on August 30, 2012 at 11:27 AM

In 2008, they had a +15 at 54/39, in line with their ratings in every election since 1992 except 2004′s 48/40. This year, they hit 43/52, a -9 favorability, and a 24-point swing from four years ago.

The fact their favorability was that high is awfully depressing, but I’m glad it appears people might be getting it.

changer1701 on August 30, 2012 at 11:27 AM

the Democratic post-midterm strategy has been a huge flop.

What? You mean sticking their fingers in their ears and singing “la-la-la-la” didn’t work?

rockmom on August 30, 2012 at 11:27 AM

The walls are coming tumbling down!! The trumpets are sounding! The forces are gathering! The flood gates will open! The heavens will burst asunder! We shall defeat them!

Glory days will come back…

Scrumpy on August 30, 2012 at 11:28 AM

CHANGE!

MobileVideoEngineer on August 30, 2012 at 11:28 AM

And also for the first time, Democrats find themselves underwater — and not by a narrow margin, either

throw them a lifeline an anvil, please…..

ted c on August 30, 2012 at 11:28 AM

Things are still moving in the right direction.

We need to seal the deal.

Red Cloud on August 30, 2012 at 11:30 AM

Americans love a winner and hate a loser.

Obama is a loser and Americans can clearly see this. Winners don’t have time for excuses, they move on to the next success.

NoDonkey on August 30, 2012 at 11:31 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxSlYdIYQ7E&feature=related

John Mellencamp: Walls come tumbling down…

Scrumpy on August 30, 2012 at 11:32 AM

Also, more proof of the Wages of Obamacare.

The Democratic Party is paying a huge price for stoking Barack Obama’s ego. It’s amazing to me that they do not see this. It is going to take them decades to regain their trust with the Ameircan people.

rockmom on August 30, 2012 at 11:32 AM

“None of us have to settle for the best this administration offers – a dull, adventureless journey from one entitlement to the next, a government-planned life, a country where everything is free but us.”

- Ryan, as close to calling Obama a socialist as you’ll ever see from a mainstream politician.

lorien1973 on August 30, 2012 at 11:32 AM

..ain’t the per-convention polls I am worried about. It’s the relative bounce out of each convention that is of concern. With Isaac and the non-broadcasting of some of the more significant speeches at the RNC and the guaranteed wall-to-wall 24/7 love-and-leg-tingle at the shortened Charlotte Muslim-abortion-palooza crapfest, President Pantload will bounce out of the gate at +20.

The War Planner on August 30, 2012 at 11:34 AM

Democratic post-midterm strategy has been a huge flop

My unemployed frieds totally agree with this.

MTF on August 30, 2012 at 11:34 AM

CHANGE!

MobileVideoEngineer on August 30, 2012 at 11:28 AM

Plus ça change (plus c’est la même chose).

Difficultas_Est_Imperium on August 30, 2012 at 11:34 AM

The War Planner on August 30, 2012 at 11:34 AM

Oh God I hope not, but you do speak the reality of it…

Most folk round here haven’t seen but what the LSM puts out, I have told many to watch C-SPAN to get the full picture, to come to their own conclusion, I am looked at with a glazed over look…

I am surrounded by idiots! I can only hope I break thru to one or two…

Scrumpy on August 30, 2012 at 11:37 AM

Once the DNC convention starts, expect the juxtaposition of the RNC convention to dancing vaginas to cause a further slide in Dem favorability.

parteagirl on August 30, 2012 at 11:37 AM

favorability dropped twelve points from 47% to 35% — putting them slightly behind Republicans in favorability. That will impact races all the way down the ballot, and shows that the Democratic post-midterm strategy has been a huge flop.

yowza.

12 points. that’s dataspeak for “ya’ll suck”…..

ted c on August 30, 2012 at 11:38 AM

Last night changed everything.

JPeterman on August 30, 2012 at 11:38 AM

..ain’t the per-convention polls I am worried about. It’s the relative bounce out of each convention that is of concern. With Isaac and the non-broadcasting of some of the more significant speeches at the RNC and the guaranteed wall-to-wall 24/7 love-and-leg-tingle at the shortened Charlotte Muslim-abortion-palooza crapfest, President Pantload will bounce out of the gate at +20.

The War Planner on August 30, 2012 at 11:34 AM

I don’t know… I’m sure it may rally the base a little, but unless you are a hardcore liberal who only cares about abortion, you will probably be turned off by the blantant dancing around the main issues that actually affect the average person.

MobileVideoEngineer on August 30, 2012 at 11:39 AM

People are waking up to the fact that the Democratic Party has been hijacked by communists and socialists. Well, let me rephrase that a bit, because the Democratic Party has always been aligned with socialism.

What’s happened is they’ve become overt with their message of socialism while in the past they tried to do everything under the radar.

When Democrats in power saw that the American people elected a Marxist as president, they really thought it was okay to come out of the closet with their true goals of central planning and wanting to control every aspect of every American’s life.

People are becoming more aware.

ButterflyDragon on August 30, 2012 at 11:40 AM

A number of the polls this month seem to indicate the general population consensus is disgust with the Dems, but in a “OMG, you’re going to make me either sit out or vote for Bush’s party” attitude.

The most telling poll lately, IMO, was this Rasmussen.

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/08/27/rasmussen-poll-shows-few-paying-attention-to-conventions/

That’s depression, which coincides with the spike of anti-depression/anxiety meds we’ve seen since ’08.

http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2012/03/19/womens-use-of-psych-medications-rises-other-health-regimens-lag-men-studies/

We’ve had numerous studies come out like this one since Barry took over. His “creative destruction” has taken its toll.

Next week, when all we hear from Team Barry is Fear & Loathing, I think his lead is finally cooked.

budfox on August 30, 2012 at 11:41 AM

Tonight HAS to be the game changer, Romney HAS to bring his game full on…

We have had many amazing speakers, making amazing fundamental points, but with the LSM only doing what they do best, people will remain ignorant of the facts…

Scrumpy on August 30, 2012 at 11:41 AM

It will be interesting to see the numbers after the Dems spend the week celebrating female reproduction.

Happy Nomad on August 30, 2012 at 11:43 AM

I wonder if the dancing vajayjays will entertain? Lol… I hope so!

Can you imagine it… followed by the speechifying Fluke…

Scrumpy on August 30, 2012 at 11:44 AM

I hope Ed won’t mind but this was on the McCaskill thread and it’s so powerful I wanted to bring it here:

She can’t run away from this http://themorningspew.com/2012/08/29/obamanation-by-jon-mcnaughton/

It’s art.

bloggless on August 29, 2012 at 7:39 PM

bluefox on August 30, 2012 at 11:46 AM

How can you party while a black man is polling underwater?

faraway on August 30, 2012 at 11:27 AM

Love this line. Loved it even more in the Mia thread. Keep using it all the way into November….

SomeCallMeJohn on August 30, 2012 at 11:48 AM

People are waking up to the fact that the Democratic Party has been hijacked by communists and socialists. Well, let me rephrase that a bit, because the Democratic Party has always been aligned with socialism.

What’s happened is they’ve become overt with their message of socialism while in the past they tried to do everything under the radar.

When Democrats in power saw that the American people elected a Marxist as president, they really thought it was okay to come out of the closet with their true goals of central planning and wanting to control every aspect of every American’s life.

People are becoming more aware.

ButterflyDragon on August 30, 2012 at 11:40 AM

Bingo. This is why the Clintons don’t like the likes of Obama. The Clintons have the same ideologies as Obama, but the difference is they are Fabian Socialists while Obama is a straight Marxist. The Fabian Socialists want to gently guide the people to the end goal of socialism and communism of their own volition which can take many many years, whereas a Marxist wants to get to end goal as quickly as possible. The Clintons aren’t upset with Obama’s policies or goals, they are upset that he let the cat out of the bag.

MobileVideoEngineer on August 30, 2012 at 11:48 AM

The Democratic Party is paying a huge price for stoking Barack Obama’s ego. It’s amazing to me that they do not see this. It is going to take them decades to regain their trust with the Ameircan people.

rockmom on August 30, 2012 at 11:32 AM

I disagree. I think for the next 20 years or so we’re going to see the pendulum wildly swing from one side to the next.

Remember, just a few short years ago the Republican party was “dead”. Everyone thought it would take decades for them to regain America’s trust. We saw how short-lived those predictions were.

ButterflyDragon on August 30, 2012 at 11:48 AM

What? You mean sticking their fingers in their ears and singing “la-la-la-la” didn’t work?

rockmom on August 30, 2012 at 11:27 AM

Well, they do have that ‘You’re all ignorant racists’ thing going for them.

So there’s that…..

BigWyo on August 30, 2012 at 11:52 AM

..ain’t the per-convention polls I am worried about. It’s the relative bounce out of each convention that is of concern. With Isaac and the non-broadcasting of some of the more significant speeches at the RNC and the guaranteed wall-to-wall 24/7 love-and-leg-tingle at the shortened Charlotte Muslim-abortion-palooza crapfest, President Pantload will bounce out of the gate at +20.

The War Planner on August 30, 2012 at 11:34 AM

Assume you’re exaggerating for effect (although, post Dem convention, the media might well do the same) but since 1960 Democrats have averaged about 7.3 jump in the polls, Republicans about 6.4. Biggest bounce was Clinton’s in 1992: 16 points (although Perot had just dropped out of the race, and when he re-entered Clinton dropped to 10 points. (Source: CSM)

But now that Obama’s established a new precedent of active campaigning during the other party’s convention, R&R are free to do the same. Dem convention week might also be a good time to display the awesome power of the Romney death star, which, even if the ads don’t suppress the bump, could negate the impact of the convention broadcasts in the swing states. They’re all that matter now.

de rigueur on August 30, 2012 at 11:52 AM

Democrats drop below GOP in pre-convention favorability

…we have to look at the poll after the government media and Hollywood are done putting on their show in North Carolina…to see how the stupid people react.

KOOLAID2 on August 30, 2012 at 11:53 AM

It will be interesting to see the numbers after the Dems spend the week celebrating female reproduction.

Happy Nomad on August 30, 2012 at 11:43 AM

I think their celebrating stopping reproduction. Most Americans favor some ban on abortions so I don’t think the Dems are going to get the kind of bounce they expected.

The other thing is that the protesters here in Tampa have not been anywhere as bad as I remember them being in NYC (I somehow ended up living here in Tampa now, and less than 2 hrs outside NYC for that convention). There is not the 23/7 cheering the protesters on that MSM was doing then.

talking_mouse on August 30, 2012 at 11:59 AM

For anyone watching, the choice is this:

Commies or Americans…

Choose one.

CPT. Charles on August 30, 2012 at 12:01 PM

RNC Convention, Condi Rice. DNC Convention, Sandra Fluke.

Need anyone say anymore?

Tater Salad on August 30, 2012 at 12:02 PM

only one thing to do, put out polls with +15 democrat samples.

jukin3 on August 30, 2012 at 12:03 PM

If you use the ’10 sample rate in the MSM polls the race gets real ugly for the Dems. They know it and that is why they are so scared, you can see it in their demeanor on MSNBC.

Tater Salad on August 30, 2012 at 12:05 PM

I’m going to withhold my excitement until the end of the DNC. I’m hoping that Romney gives an eventful speech today which will give us a bump, but the DNC will give the Dems a bump too. However…

It is possible that once the DNC’s “abortapalooza” kicks into gear, voters will realize that they have no real plan to jump-start the economy. If they concentrate soley on social issues the DNC might just hurt them.

Meric1837 on August 30, 2012 at 11:27 AM

If the Dems concentrate only on abortion and government-funded birth control, this is where the female speakers at the RNC are the perfect rebuttal, particularly Governors Nikki Haley and Susana Martinez, Senator Kelly Ayotte, and former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. Women voters comparing them to the likes of Sandra Fluke will realize that the GOP women are the real adults in the room, talking about jobs, the economy, and education. It also helped that both Gov. Chris Christie and Rep. Paul Ryan pointed to their mothers as their mentors.

Maybe a little O/T, but last night’s slogan was a real winner. Obama in 2008 campaigned on “change”, and “Yes We Can” without specifying what “we” can do. Last night, the Republicans held up signs “We Can Change It”, promising voters to do what Obama promised 4 years ago, and failed.

Steve Z on August 30, 2012 at 12:08 PM

Some important and useful Big D drop from the left:
Anger over: WoT, drone strikes, Guantanamo, transparency, treatment of whistle-blowers, single payer, Wall St Money, no Wall St prosecutions, failure of SEC. Much more.

Many cynical, giving up. They are of course, lightweights.
Use that.
Especially young first timers. “They re all corrupt”. “All pols are…” etc.
Many already declare they will not vote.
Stimulate that happy thought.

Feed that cynicism, Liberally.
post at leftist forums, use the leftist critiques.
Make them suffer, make them feel it, make them feel the failure.

Tell them what they already know.
There is no God, life is hopeless,
you are going to die, miserable.

Really.
Bring the hurtin on em.
It is already there inside, boiling over.
Their dream has been sold,
hope traded for new lies.

They will give up.
They will stay home on voting day.

PaleoRider on August 30, 2012 at 12:08 PM

I think the dems are going to way overplay their hand next week and will end up turning off more voters than bringing them back into the fold. No one wants to hear 3 days of women shrieking about abortion and endless victims demanding taxpayer money for their poor life choices.

Too many families are struggling and the dems will not be offering any real solutions.

karenhasfreedom on August 30, 2012 at 12:08 PM

“Change we can wallow in.”

Akzed on August 30, 2012 at 12:08 PM

A caller on Bennett this morn said Obooba’s running ads in… California?!

Akzed on August 30, 2012 at 12:10 PM

The Crats have nothing left to stand on. It is going to get very ugly among them and their fellow media travelers, but I think their foundations are so eroded that they are entering diminishing electoral returns territory on their desperate negativism. There’s only so much people can take before they call BS. May it happen sooner rather than later.

paul1149 on August 30, 2012 at 12:11 PM

Steve Z on August 30, 2012 at 12:08 PM

Steve, I left you a comment to add to your great Senate race stats on the McCaskill thread.

bluefox on August 30, 2012 at 12:13 PM

I think their celebrating stopping reproduction. Most Americans favor some ban on abortions so I don’t think the Dems are going to get the kind of bounce they expected.

talking_mouse on August 30, 2012 at 11:59 AM

I don’t think they are going to get the bounce they are expecting either. If you’re a Democrat are you really jazzed up at another four years of Obama? You may hold your nose and vote for him in November but do you really get motivated by three days of honoring the vajayjay?

Happy Nomad on August 30, 2012 at 12:16 PM

Democrat enthusiasm will rise when their populist saviour from the rich has his telepromptr reading at the Bank of America center.

LMFAO

tom daschle concerned on August 30, 2012 at 12:19 PM

Democrats find themselves underwater

In an Oldsmobile Delmont 88?

Hat Trick on August 30, 2012 at 12:22 PM

Where’s all the stories in the media about Obama destroying the Democrat brand?

OxyCon on August 30, 2012 at 12:30 PM

Obama ran as a centrist conservative and fooled a lot of low info voters. but his rampant socialist tendencies have come shining through on many occasions like joe the plumber and didn’t build that. the country will reject this progressive socialist en masse on nov 6.

slightly O/T: I heard several times that they were going to debut the video of former obama voters that now will not vote for him. Hannity ran snippets last week. it was devastating and Luntz said it was the most effective thing we could run. now i do not see it on the convention schedule. i think this is a serious mistake not to run it. if not now, when? anybody know the plan for it?

phillysfinest on August 30, 2012 at 12:31 PM

If you’re a Democrat are you really jazzed up at another four years of Obama?

Nonsense, who’s not up for another four years of failure and blame?

NoDonkey on August 30, 2012 at 12:37 PM

..ain’t the per-convention polls I am worried about. It’s the relative bounce out of each convention that is of concern. With Isaac and the non-broadcasting of some of the more significant speeches at the RNC and the guaranteed wall-to-wall 24/7 love-and-leg-tingle at the shortened Charlotte Muslim-abortion-palooza crapfest, President Pantload will bounce out of the gate at +20.

The War Planner on August 30, 2012 at 11:34 AM

I share your sense of caution — Obama will receive “a bounce” from the DNC convention, but I doubt it’ll be “+20.”

We have to keep it up on the Leftmedia, err, the DNC’s propaganda wing. I’m not looking forward to the freakout in the Leftmedia during the DNC convention — it’s to be expected, though, they’ll write about the seas moving and new planets being born named “Barac” and whatever — but I do get the impression in general that the voters nationwide have gotten the message about Obama’s incompetence or at least foolishness.

We just have to keep up pressure on the Leftmedia.

Ann Romney, Paul Ryan’s and Condoleezza Rice’s speeches have done a lot to get the Right ‘fired up’. I see an increase in confidence on the Right in so many areas.

Lourdes on August 30, 2012 at 12:39 PM

Democrats find themselves underwater

That’s what happens when you let Zombie Ted Kennedy drive your narrative.

Flora Duh on August 30, 2012 at 12:41 PM

This article is worth a read, though it’s from the Canadian Free Press:

A Party of Trolls

Article points out that the Dems/Left has nothing as to ideas and explanations. “Four more years” of what and why? Obama/Dems/Left has no explanation, so they “troll” the Republicans. Read it if you have some time.

Lourdes on August 30, 2012 at 12:42 PM

The Crats have nothing left to stand on. It is going to get very ugly among them and their fellow media travelers, but I think their foundations are so eroded that they are entering diminishing electoral returns territory on their desperate negativism. There’s only so much people can take before they call BS. May it happen sooner rather than later.

paul1149 on August 30, 2012 at 12:11 PM

I think this is why there’s such a jump in violence by the Left. They’re out of ideas, have no explanations (only “demands”), can’t and won’t lead with productive methods, so they’re resorting to violence (or, perhaps, increased violence).

Lourdes on August 30, 2012 at 12:45 PM

slightly O/T: I heard several times that they were going to debut the video of former obama voters that now will not vote for him. Hannity ran snippets last week. it was devastating and Luntz said it was the most effective thing we could run. now i do not see it on the convention schedule. i think this is a serious mistake not to run it. if not now, when? anybody know the plan for it?

phillysfinest on August 30, 2012 at 12:31 PM

I saw that video from a GOP link — it’d take me a while to find it again, though (but you could try looking on GOP.com for starters).

I don’t know if they’re going to include it in what remains of the GOP/RNC convention week, but the video IS available already online (somewhere, sorry I can’t give you a link).

Lourdes on August 30, 2012 at 12:52 PM

OK, let’s assume that the LSM will abide but the ‘one hour per night’ concept for the DNC.
My question is : will they cover that Muslim show wall-to-wall ??

pambi on August 30, 2012 at 1:02 PM

phillysfinest on August 30, 2012 at 12:31 PM

I looked on GOP.com and didn’t find that video…it might be on the GOP’s youtube.com site (there’s a link at gop.com for that).

I know I saw this video already (last week or weekend) but I now can’t find it what with erased history…sorry.

Lourdes on August 30, 2012 at 1:04 PM

Wait a sec didn’t Clinton win in 1992 anyway?

Conservative4ev on August 30, 2012 at 1:07 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljZew68XUNM

This is the Hope & Change video shown on Hannity.

bluefox on August 30, 2012 at 1:08 PM

the Democratic post-midterm strategy has been a huge flop

I think this might be the most hopeful thing I have read.

I have been saying for quite some time, what do the DC Dems stand for – outside of the unilateral right of women to kill their mostly unborn child – what? Nothing.

And perhaps this is starting to come through. One can hope.

Zomcon JEM on August 30, 2012 at 1:23 PM

You mean you can’t call the people, who voted you out of the majority in the House, nothing but a bunch of racists and improve your poll numbers?

bflat879 on August 30, 2012 at 2:00 PM

And Bush had to deal with 9/11 and Katrina and the meltdown together with intra party squabbling…while Obama has had almost total support from both the media and his party.

I hope the Democrats get slapped down this November, they deserve it.

Terrye on August 30, 2012 at 2:08 PM

You do realize that the response of the administration to the polling numbers is going to be an announcement that Gallup and Rasmussen are under investigation by the Justice Department, the SEC, the IRS, and Homeland Security? And that they will expand the investigations as needed to include those responding to their surveys with the wrong answers. [/partial sarc]

Subotai Bahadur

Subotai Bahadur on August 30, 2012 at 2:16 PM

Remember, just a few short years ago the Republican party was “dead”. Everyone thought it would take decades for them to regain America’s trust. We saw how short-lived those predictions were.

ButterflyDragon on August 30, 2012 at 11:48 AM

I agree somewhat. Obowmao drove folks back to the Rs, and the Tea Party gets a bit of credit for forcing the Republican Party to stick to principles OR ELSE!

Laura in Maryland on August 30, 2012 at 3:23 PM

Democratic post-midterm strategy has been a huge flop.

They had a strategy? First I’ve heard of it.

J.H. on August 30, 2012 at 3:58 PM

with Democrats holding a 3-point lead at 44/43 when counting leaners.

umm…1 point or 3 points?

clghitis on August 30, 2012 at 6:39 PM