Fact-checking the factcheckers on Ryan’s speech; Update: “As president, I will lead an effort to retool plants like the GM facility in Janesville”

posted at 10:01 am on August 30, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

Seems like fact checkers need to do some fact checking of their own assumptions.  Paul Ryan’s speech last night included a reference to a GM plant in Janesville that closed, which Ryan used to criticize Barack Obama for failing to meet his campaign promises.  A number of “fact” checkers jumped all over Ryan’s anecdote to claim that he lied about the circumstances of the plant’s closure.  We’ll just take one example, from the AP’s “fact’ check:

RYAN: Said Obama misled people in Ryan’s hometown of Janesville, Wis., by making them think a General Motors plant there threatened with closure could be saved. “A lot of guys I went to high school with worked at that GM plant. Right there at that plant, candidate Obama said: `I believe that if our government is there to support you … this plant will be here for another hundred years.’ That’s what he said in 2008. Well, as it turned out, that plant didn’t last another year.”

THE FACTS: The plant halted production in December 2008, weeks before Obama took office and well before he enacted a more robust auto industry bailout that rescued GM and Chrysler and allowed the majority of their plants – though not the Janesville facility – to stay in operation. Ryan himself voted for an auto bailout under President George W. Bush that was designed to help GM, but he was a vocal critic of the one pushed through by Obama that has been widely credited with revitalizing both GM and Chrysler.

Actually, those “facts” aren’t quite accurate, either.  As the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel reported in September of last year — long before Ryan got added to the ticket — the Janesville plant got shut down in 2009, after being notified of their pending closure in December 2008:

General Motors Co. has committed to reopen its idled plant in Spring Hill, Tenn., and keep its shuttered assembly plant in Janesville on standby status.

The commitment to the former Saturn plant in Tennessee was part of a contract settlement reached late last week between GM and the United Auto Workers union.

Since they were shut down in 2009, both the Janesville and Tennessee plants have been on standby status, meaning they were not producing vehicles, but they were not completely shut down. …

The Janesville plant stopped production of SUVs in 2008 and was idled in 2009 after it completed production of medium-duty trucks.

Remaining on standby means not much has changed in Janesville. Community leaders say they would be ready if the GM plant reopened, but no one seems to be counting on that.

Production continued into 2009 on trucks — and into April, as this local TV report from April 2009 shows, courtesy of our good friend Morgen Richmond:

Clearly, the job of “fact checker” in the mainstream media must not involve research skills.  Nor does it take much in comprehension, because these supposed fact checks started with a misrepresentation of what Ryan actually said.  Here are his actual words, emphasis mine:

President Barack Obama came to office during an economic crisis, as he has reminded us a time or two. Those were very tough days, and any fair measure of his record has to take that into account. My home state voted for President Obama. When he talked about change, many people liked the sound of it, especially in Janesville, where we were about to lose a major factory.

A lot of guys I went to high school with worked at that GM plant. Right there at that plant, candidate Obama said: “I believe that if our government is there to support you … this plant will be here for another hundred years.” That’s what he said in 2008.

Well, as it turned out, that plant didn’t last another year. It is locked up and empty to this day. And that’s how it is in so many towns today, where the recovery that was promised is nowhere in sight.

Ryan acknowledged that the plant had already been slated for shutdown in 2008.  That was his point.  People voted for him because they thought Obama represented hope to get the plant back in operation.   In fact, that had been known since at least February 2008, when Obama came to Janesville to speak, and specifically addressed the plant closure in his remarksdelivered at the plant itself — and promised to keep it and other plants like it open “for the next hundred years” (emphasis mine):

It was nearly a century ago that the first tractor rolled off the assembly line at this plant.  The achievement didn’t just create a product to sell or profits for General Motors. It led to a shared prosperity enjoyed by all of Janesville.  Homes and businesses began to sprout up along Milwaukee and Main Streets.  Jobs were plentiful, with wages that could raise a family and benefits you could count on.

Prosperity hasn’t always come easily.  The plant shut down for a period during the height of the Depression, and major shifts in production have been required to meet the changing times.  Tractors became automobiles.  Automobiles became artillery shells.  SUVs are becoming hybrids as we speak, and the cost of transition has always been greatest for the workers and their families.

But through hard times and good, great challenge and great change, the promise of Janesville has been the promise of America – that our prosperity can and must be the tide that lifts every boat; that we rise or fall as one nation; that our economy is strongest when our middle-class grows and opportunity is spread as widely as possible.  And when it’s not – when opportunity is uneven or unequal – it is our responsibility to restore balance, and fairness, and keep that promise alive for the next generation.  That is the responsibility we face right now, and that is the responsibility I intend to meet as President of the United States. …

Those are the steps we can take to ease the cost crisis facing working families.  But we still need to make sure that families are working.  We need to maintain our competitive edge in a global by ensuring that plants like this one stay open for another hundred years, and shuttered factories re-open as new industries that promise new jobs.  And we need to put more Americans to work doing jobs that need to be done right here in America.

That’s the promise that Barack Obama failed to deliver — even when the government took ownership of GM.  Ryan had it exactly right, and the fact checkers have made a mockery of their own profession by stepping all over their own biases to refute Ryan.

Update: Guy Benson goes after more “fact checks” of Ryan’s speech from Team Obama.

Update II: More from Reason’s Shikha Dalmia, noting that the Janesville plant was actually one of the choices to keep open when Obama extended the automaker bailout:

Here’s what GazetteXtra.com, a Janesville paper, reported on Feb 2, 2009:

Full-size sport utility vehicle production has ended at the local General Motors plant, but medium-duty truck production is continuing—not starting—in Janesville.

And it likely will continue into May, when the lights finally go off in the facility that has been producing vehicles since 1923.

When GM officials announced last June that SUV production would cease in Janesville, they also said that medium-duty truck production would conclude by the end of 2009, or sooner if market conditions dictate.

What’s more, the administration actually did consider keeping the Janesville plant alive after it nationalized GM by commandeering the bankruptcy process. According to Shepardson’s story:

In June 2009, GM considered three sites to locate a small car: its Orion plant in Michigan; Janesville, Wis.; and a Spring Hill, Tenn., plant slated to close in November. GM picked Orion and later reopened Spring Hill.

Now why would Obama choose to close the only plant he had actively “suggested” he’d keep open? Could it possibly have something to do with the fact that it was in Ryan’s (Republican) hometown? Just askin…

I believe the retrofit costs would have been higher in Janesville, which is why the plant wasn’t chosen — but it’s clear that the plant wasn’t closed under Bush, and that Obama had an opportunity to make good on his promise.

Update III: BuzzFeed’s Andrew Kaczynski finds this promise from Barack Obama in June 2008, after the notice went out that the plant would shut down over the next several months, emphasis mine:

“Reports that the GM plant I visited in Janesville may shut down sooner than expected are a painful reminder of the tough economic times facing working families across this country. This news is also a reminder that Washington needs to finally live up to its promise to help our automakers compete in our global economy. As president, I will lead an effort to retool plants like the GM facility in Janesville so we can build the fuel-efficient cars of tomorrow and create good-paying jobs in Wisconsin and all across America.” Source: media.gazettextra.com  /  via:uppermichiganssource.com

Sounds like a promise — and it certainly did to the people of Janesville.  Will the “fact” checkers fact-check themselves now?


Related Posts:

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 2 3

Bush:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Stimulus_Act_of_2008

Bush:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Economic_Stabilization_Act_of_2008

Welcome to responsibility. You’re struggling with it, I see.

Dave Rywall on August 30, 2012 at 10:45

AMhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Recovery_and_Reinvestment_Act_of_2009

Oops. Looks like you don’t even know what stimulus we’re actually talking about here. With that and all of the other spending Obama’s done, there is $5 trillion in NEW debt that all belongs to your boy. Not Bush. Sorry, jack. Them’s the facts.

Who ran Congress in 2008, BTW?

Good Lt on August 30, 2012 at 10:51 AM

Seriously, if Democrats want to waste the next week arguing about when a plant closed in Wisconsin, let them.

rockmom on August 30, 2012 at 10:51 AM

Cite the TPM article you’re plagiarizing, drywall you louse:

—-
1
medicare 716 million bullsh*t when his own plan does the same thing

Not the same at all. Ryan’s plan kills Obamacare, which is designed to pay for itself by stealing medicare funds in increasing amounts. When the bill was passed, Obamacare siphened off $50B a year from Medicare. Now it’s $72B just 2 years later. It’ll keep growing at the expense of the elderly.

2
S&P’s downgrade is Obama’s fault when S&P specifically blamed both Democrats and Republicans and shat specifically on the Republicans for being pigheadedly opposed to raising taxes.
“We have changed our assumption on this because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues” – S&P

Dave Rywall on August 30, 2012 at 10:35 AM

How about cut from the $700 billion a year Obama jacked up spending by, 100% debt financed?

Chuck Schick on August 30, 2012 at 10:51 AM

“We have changed our assumption on this because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues” – S&P

Dave Rywall on August 30, 2012 at 10:35 AM

Apparently you missed the WaPo front page story that told of both parties reaching a deal only to have Obama turn it down and walk out of the room.

Dave…maybe you can explain how not taking care of the entitlement disaster is “compromise” on the debt issue.

Nancy Pelosi: House Democrats Won’t Accept Entitlement Cuts In Debt Deal

After a contentious White House meeting with President Obama and other Congressional leaders, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) returned to the Capitol and drew an important red line: Members of her caucus won’t vote for a grand bargain to raise the debt limit and reduce future deficits if the final deal includes cuts to Medicare and Social Security benefits — and that means it probably won’t pass.

…..you apparently know as little about the debt issue as you do about this plant closing….
……………epic fail.

Baxter Greene on August 30, 2012 at 10:52 AM

Clearly, the job of “fact checker” in the mainstream media must not involve research skills. Nor does it take much in comprehension, because these supposed fact checks started with a misrepresentation of what Ryan actually said.

Paul Ryan could have said Obama doesn’t count all his strokes on the golf course, and the mainstream “fact-checkers” would produce a CBO report claiming Ryan lied. Remember when ObamaCare was only going to cost us under a trillion? Garbage in………..

Rovin on August 30, 2012 at 10:52 AM

aunursa on August 30, 2012 at 10:48 AM

In this day and age the lies spread faster than the truth…

We are engaged in a running battle, I hope it ends soon…

It sickens me…

We can shout louder tho! We just have to double down on our efforts, never give up and never give in…

Scrumpy on August 30, 2012 at 10:53 AM

I can visualize Drywall now hitting his keyboard with his fists of fury as he copies and pastes from fantasy-land lefty sewage dumps to massage this meme.
.
Next he’ll be smashing his forehead against the keyboard to a bloody pulp like the famous GIF cartoon.

Dr. Carlo Lombardi on August 30, 2012 at 10:41 AM

What’s so stupid is if I remember correctly, this Drywall guy lives in Canada. So I don’t even know why he cares. We don’t go to Canadian political sites to try and argue. The world talks about the U.S. needing to mind its own business, why don’t you idiot libs from other countries take your own advice?

MobileVideoEngineer on August 30, 2012 at 10:53 AM

I wonder if Mara Liasson of NPR will report Joe Biden’s speech like she did Ryan’s? That is, by playing three clips, and then rebutting each one in turn. NPR is a joke.

Oh, and I can’t wait to see which three historical speechs NPR picks to highlight the Dems’ conventions of the past. For the Republicans, they picked Goldwater’s “extremism in defense of liberty”, Buchanan’s “culture wars”, and Palin’s “hockey moms”. Message (made explicit): GOP likes to lurch out of the mainstream, and then they lose. Somehow I don’t think the Dem speeches they pick will be from what they perceive are losers.

drunyan8315 on August 30, 2012 at 10:53 AM

Here, Dave.

This is for you. Here’s nearly $1 trillion of Obama’s $5 trillion in new debt in one shot. All Obama, all Democrat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Recovery_and_Reinvestment_Act_of_2009

Or is that not a fact because it’s politically inconvenient?

Good Lt on August 30, 2012 at 10:54 AM

Here’s what else Ryan could have said but didn’t:

Obama promised to cut the deficit in half.

Obama promised to go through the federal budget line by line and eliminate programs that don’t work.

Obama promised to put all negotiations on the health care bill on C-SPAN.

rockmom on August 30, 2012 at 10:42 AM

You missed a couple that I find even more damning.

1. Obama promised that his very election marked the point where the seas would recede and the planet would begin healing. (I only include this to point out the sheer arrogance that Obama started his term as President).

2. Obama said that in return for the massive stimulus spending we would be investing in the infrastructure with shovel-ready projects and unemployment would not go over 8%. We spent the money on Obama’s cronies and that school in South Carolina that Obama mentioned by name as getting internet access as a result of this spending- still offline. And Obama would kill to get unemployment down to 8% by election time.

3. Obama promised the most transparent administration ever. Enough said.

4. Obama promised to be the first post-partisan President and then went about deliberately shutting out the GOP.

Happy Nomad on August 30, 2012 at 10:55 AM

These Presstitutes need to be scorned and ridiculed at evry opportunity,
Newt Gingrich for Presstitute Secretary!

ConcealedKerry on August 30, 2012 at 10:36 AM

No, what they need, is to be personally introduced to Streetlamps and Stout Hemp Rope.

SWalker on August 30, 2012 at 10:56 AM

Wikipedia? C’mon Dave…you can do better than that, can’t you?

kingsjester on August 30, 2012 at 10:56 AM

I disagree with Hotair’s ludicrous detachment form reality on the plant closing.

It’s obfuscation, re-finger pointing and desperate koolaid drinking at its finest.

Dave Rywall on August 30, 2012 at 10:20 AM

You’re a liberal…of course you disagree with facts.

Now the point is not what you “agree with”…..
……..the point is can you “back up” your accusations and prove that the plant was CLOSED before Obama became President and NOT CLOSED in June of 2009.

We have the words of GM….Newspapers….and televised news reports that say the democrats are the ones lying…..
…………..prove them wrong….
……………………….put up or shut up Dave.

Baxter Greene on August 30, 2012 at 10:35 AM

Dave…when are you going to back up your baseless accusations that this post is a “detachment” from reality??????

….let’s go….quit running from your post……back up your drivel.

Prove the newspapers,television,and GM wrong by proving that this plant “CLOSED” before Obama became President.

Baxter Greene on August 30, 2012 at 10:58 AM

Welcome to responsibility. You’re struggling with it, I see.

Dave Rywall on August 30, 2012 at 10:45

Obama’s run up more debt in 3.5 years than Bush did in 8.

Chuck Schick on August 30, 2012 at 10:59 AM

Ryan’s speech was devastating to Team Obama.

Well done Mr. Ryan!

workingclass artist on August 30, 2012 at 10:59 AM

koolaid drinking at its finest.

Old Man Sedgewick on August 30, 2012 at 10:20 AM

Men’s Night on the Mountain

Del Dolemonte on August 30, 2012 at 11:02 AM

Who ran Congress in 2008, BTW?

Good Lt on August 30, 2012 at 10:51 AM

oh, I know that one! George Bush!

@liberalbrainstem.

ted c on August 30, 2012 at 11:02 AM

Factcheckers in media are partisan hacks claiming to be referees.

bayview on August 30, 2012 at 11:02 AM

Dave…when are you going to back up your baseless accusations that this post is a “detachment” from reality??????

….let’s go….quit running from your post……back up your drivel.

Prove the newspapers,television,and GM wrong by proving that this plant “CLOSED” before Obama became President.

Baxter Greene on August 30, 2012 at 10:58 AM

Sorry Baxter, Dave has no intention of actually backing up anything he says with genuinely documented facts, Dave KNOWS that he is lying and he knows that the only thing he can do is continue lying and to claim that everyone is is lying and delusional.

SWalker on August 30, 2012 at 11:02 AM

Paul Ryan could have said Obama doesn’t count all his strokes on the golf course…

Rovin on August 30, 2012 at 10:52 AM

But that would have been racist.

de rigueur on August 30, 2012 at 11:03 AM

How about this one [paraphrasing]………

“If I don’t bring us out of the recession in three years than I deserve to be a one term president.”

Buh-Bye Dog-Eater.

fogw on August 30, 2012 at 11:05 AM

Ahh, but the plant closing that’s… that’s where I had them. They laughed at me and made jokes but I proved beyond the shadow of a doubt and with… geometric logic… that a plant that closed in 2009 really DID close in 2008 and it wasn’t a “closing” closing anyway, and I’d have nailed that Ryan if they hadn’t of pulled me out of action. I, I, I know now they were only trying to protect some fellow fact checkers…

de rigueur on August 30, 2012 at 11:06 AM

There is no excuse for the way CNN acted last night. I have never seen more blatant lying and rewording of someone’s speech as I saw last night.

I have seen a few glimmers of the old CNN recently, but now it is pure propaganda.

I don’t even bother with MSNBC anymore.

It is a shame to lose news stations, but CNN must go.

petunia on August 30, 2012 at 11:06 AM

Sorry Baxter, Dave has no intention of actually backing up anything he says with genuinely documented facts, Dave KNOWS that he is lying and he knows that the only thing he can do is continue lying and to claim that everyone is is lying and delusional.

SWalker on August 30, 2012 at 11:02 AM

You’re right……
…………….no doubt he’s meeting the qualifications of what it is to be a democrat.

Baxter Greene on August 30, 2012 at 11:07 AM

Welcome to my bedroom. I’m struggling with the faded posters on my wall, you see.

Dave Rywall on August 30, 2012 at 10:45 AM

Fixed, because face it. I’d be as miserable as our hoser friend at the thought of my guy having the IQ that Joe Biden does, and how he’ll look going up against a guy as intelligent as Ryan.

Must suck being you, and not being able to pick apart a single thing Ryan said. Just a never ending array of red herrings…

MNHawk on August 30, 2012 at 11:08 AM

Angry Canadian F#*ktard is angry.

BigWyo on August 30, 2012 at 11:11 AM

another thing that is bothering me is that lost in the Hurricane driving prices up which the media uses as an excuse…the prices would have been their highest regardless of the storm for labor day.

tomas on August 30, 2012 at 11:14 AM

Mystery guest alert!
Could be Clint. But we have not heard from Colin Powell for, what, a year? I am putting my money on Colin Powell coming in taking names and kicking ass.

jake49 on August 30, 2012 at 11:16 AM

Paper Lace–The Night Chicago Died.

ted c on August 30, 2012 at 10:42 AM

Dang. Good call. They should play this tonight after Romney’s acceptance speech. I’d love to see the meltdown and exploding heads from the Obama campaign and LSM.

right of the dial on August 30, 2012 at 11:16 AM

Anyone want to wager Biden has a “medical issue” just before the debate?

Sayonara, Soetoro.

ICanSeeNovFromMyHouse on August 30, 2012 at 11:17 AM

Wow. The beating Drywall is taking onthis thread is epic.

Spliff Menendez on August 30, 2012 at 11:17 AM

Actually, this plant is still idle.

Obama could open it tomorrow. Why doesn’t he?

faraway on August 30, 2012 at 11:18 AM

OK Sheetrock, here is something I heard that you can use in your liberal diatribe against Ryan’s veracity. The San Andreas Fault is now called the Bush’s Fault! You and your liberal friends can blame everything on Bush
!

inspectorudy on August 30, 2012 at 11:19 AM

Happy Nomad on August 30, 2012 at 10:55 AM

Agreed, but the ones I listed were very specific promises, and they were promises designed to appeal to moderates and fiscal conservatives and “good government” types. And he made them on several occasions, in order to establish in voters’ minds that he wasn’t another tax-and-spend liberal and was not going to be a backroom-deal President. And he completely ignored all of those promises.

I was a tiny bit disappointed that Ryan didn’t remind people of the C-SPAN promise. It crystallizes the chasm between the promises of Candidate Obama and the reality of President Obama. And it can’t be “fact-checked” because he said it so many times, it was part of his stump speech.

rockmom on August 30, 2012 at 11:19 AM

Sort of OT, but just catching up on the news. Does anyone else think it’s a mighty strange coincident that Code Pink got next to the Romney box at the RNC on the same day a Secret Service agent left a gun in the bathroom of Romney’s plane?

Does anyone trust Holder and Obama and Chicago to protect Republicans? Has anyone in the media even asked?

Portia46 on August 30, 2012 at 11:19 AM

jake49 on August 30, 2012 at 11:16 AM

Colon will not be able to see through his skin color lens.

bayview on August 30, 2012 at 11:21 AM

Woke up exhuberant about Ryan’s speech, checked FB and saw the usual lefty sharing of articles supposedly debunking anything he says (a “scathing” Salon critique from this a.m. got a lot of “likes”). Just had to laugh.

They really do have nothing substantial on Ryan, but anti-conservative propaganda is so readily accepted as gospel among the under-40 artsy crowd (my colleagues) that it’s pointless to try to engage in rational discussion.

pianomomma on August 30, 2012 at 11:21 AM

Woke up exhuberant about Ryan’s speech, checked FB and saw the usual lefty sharing of articles supposedly debunking anything he says (a “scathing” Salon critique from this a.m. got a lot of “likes”). Just had to laugh.

They really do have nothing substantial on Ryan, but anti-conservative propaganda is so readily accepted as gospel among the under-40 artsy crowd (my colleagues) that it’s pointless to try to engage in rational discussion.

pianomomma on August 30, 2012 at 11:21 AM

heh, Moe Lane

to mangle Lewis Carroll, the Left has long been accustomed to believing six impossible things before breakfast.

faraway on August 30, 2012 at 11:24 AM

The Democrats don’t like Ryans examples of how the economy sucks? Well, OK, stupid argument, but if you insist Dems we will let you name your own examples of how the economy sucks. There are plenty to choose from and I really don’t care which you choose.

Hilarious.

MTF on August 30, 2012 at 11:29 AM

heh, Moe Lane…

to mangle Lewis Carroll, the Left has long been accustomed to believing six impossible things before breakfast.

faraway on August 30, 2012 at 11:24 AM

Ooh, anybody who brings Lewis Carroll into the discussion is one cool cat. Great link–thanks!

pianomomma on August 30, 2012 at 11:31 AM

4:30 A.M. the marching orders went out from Jim Messina at the WhiteHut detailing the “Lies” in Ryans speech, none of which were lies!
These are not “Fact Checkers” as Rush says these Presstitutes are merely Stenographers for the spinmeisters (Liars) in this corrupt administration. Obama is not a nice guy who is mistaken, he is a far left Chicago Alinsyite who will lie, cheat, steal, murder, rob rape, or pillage just to futher the Marxist agenda.
THE ENDS JUSTIFY THE MEANS!
Wake up eGOP it is what it is, now educate the sheeple and end this mess or we are all slaves to the won’t, don’t wanna workers.

ConcealedKerry on August 30, 2012 at 11:31 AM

I love how fact check with the lib media has morphed into rebuttal posing as objectivity. Much of AP’s and other’s fact checks can be summed up as “Oh yeah, well (insert Republican candidate) once said or did this”.

E.g. In criticizing Ryan for calling out the Prez on the huge stimulus, they in turn criticized Ryan for requesting some $20.6 million dollars. Doing a little math, that works out to 0.025% of the stimulus. If every congressmen requested a similar amount of money it would work out to be less than 9 billion dollars–a mere rounding error to the original stimulus amount.

Thanks for fact checking the fact checkers.

tyrex on August 30, 2012 at 11:32 AM

this is all they have? Goodness….

Wagthatdog on August 30, 2012 at 11:34 AM

a beloved liberal news story says closed in 2010.

http://www.nbc15.com/home/headlines/19465899.html?mobile=yes

dthorny on August 30, 2012 at 11:34 AM

I was not a huge Palin fan, but her speach was better delivered and way more impressive. Also, it had maybe one or two embellishments, and Ryan’s speach was 80% bs.
I realize it’s all about using free airtime, and bs is a fair game, but I don’t understand all the excitement about a very ordinary DC insider spouting slogans.

buridan on August 30, 2012 at 11:37 AM

Mystery guest alert!
Could be Clint. But we have not heard from Colin Powell for, what, a year? I am putting my money on Colin Powell coming in taking names and kicking ass.

jake49 on August 30, 2012 at 11:16 AM

I doubt that?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/22/colin-powell-endorsement_n_1537220.html

dthorny on August 30, 2012 at 11:38 AM

The Democrats don’t like Ryans examples of how the economy sucks? Well, OK, stupid argument, but if you insist Dems we will let you name your own examples of how the economy sucks. There are plenty to choose from and I really don’t care which you choose.

Like Solyndra. Was glad to hear that mentioned last night. I live in CA and was surprised to actually drive by Solyndra on a road trip just a few days after Romney gave a speech out in front of it. TV footage or still shots don’t really convey the vastness of that big, empty facility. The truly sad thing is that much of CA littered with huge, vacant industrial buildings like that, gleaming testimonials to the promises of yesterday and the sad reality of today.

pianomomma on August 30, 2012 at 11:38 AM

a beloved liberal news story says closed in 2010.

http://www.nbc15.com/home/headlines/19465899.html?mobile=yes

dthorny on August 30, 2012 at 11:34 AM

The article was written June 20, 2008 …

GM will close the plant by 2010 as it changes its focus from larger vehicles to more fuel-efficient ones.

So, Obama closed the plant a year earlier than planned.

Why close it in 2009, when it was planned to stay open until 2010?

faraway on August 30, 2012 at 11:39 AM

No.

I disagree with Hotair’s ludicrous detachment form reality on the plant closing.

It’s obfuscation, re-finger pointing and desperate koolaid drinking at its finest.

Dave Rywall on August 30, 2012 at 10:20 AM

You know the most effective phrase in Ryan’s speech? “Idle words”. It’s a polite way of saying “making stuff up and using purple prose to do it”. Idle words.

Portia46 on August 30, 2012 at 11:41 AM

Desired effect achieved on Reddit front page, etc. media will roll with this, never mind the facts.

It is the current calculation, from the top.
This is going to be a tough one.
Hang tough, people.

PaleoRider on August 30, 2012 at 11:42 AM

buridan on August 30, 2012 at 11:37 AM

Lib troll much?

And Obowma gas accomplished what exactly? Obowma is 100% LIES. ” just words, just speeches” in his own words and that sums himself perfectly. Just words, no deeds.

Ryan tore Obowma up with facts and reason and common sense. What part of not spending money we don’t have do you not understand?

dthorny on August 30, 2012 at 11:43 AM

I was not a huge Palin fan, but her speach was better delivered and way more impressive. Also, it had maybe one or two embellishments, and Ryan’s speach was 80% bs.
I realize it’s all about using free airtime, and bs is a fair game, but I don’t understand all the excitement about a very ordinary DC insider spouting slogans.

buridan on August 30, 2012 at 11:37 AM

What speech were you watching? Or did you pay more attention to the spin from the lib “analysts” afterward? It wasn’t 80% BS at all, and it was just as good as Palin’s speech. I find it hard to believe you’re not a Palin fan when you suggest hers was so much better. She was great, he was too.

changer1701 on August 30, 2012 at 11:45 AM

I was not a huge Palin fan, but her speach was better delivered and way more impressive. Also, it had maybe one or two embellishments, and Ryan’s speach was 80% bs.
I realize it’s all about using free airtime, and bs is a fair game, but I don’t understand all the excitement about a very ordinary DC insider spouting slogans.

buridan on August 30, 2012 at 11:37 AM

You’re here to defend Sarah Palin in order to diminish Paul Ryan’s “bs”? Hahahahahahaha….

Dog whistle alert!

Portia46 on August 30, 2012 at 11:46 AM

a beloved liberal news story says closed in 2010.

http://www.nbc15.com/home/headlines/19465899.html?mobile=yes

dthorny on August 30, 2012 at 11:34 AM

The article was written June 20, 2008 …

GM will close the plant by 2010 as it changes its focus from larger vehicles to more fuel-efficient ones.

So, Obama closed the plant a year earlier than planned
.

Why close it in 2009, when it was planned to stay open until 2010?

faraway on August 30, 2012 at 11:39 AM

Just one of Obowma’s shovel ready failures.

dthorny on August 30, 2012 at 11:46 AM

Not specific to this thread, but I want to throw this out there for consideration.

New nickname for our VP candidate:

Paul “The Kracken” Ryan

Done properly, it should also be done in Buffer-style.

connertown on August 30, 2012 at 11:47 AM

Politifact on MSNBC right now saying plant closed in Dec 2008.

Lying scum.

faraway on August 30, 2012 at 11:49 AM

Bill Adair, Tampa Times

faraway on August 30, 2012 at 11:50 AM

Let the teleprompter-less debates settle this. Should be enlightening.

RobertMN on August 30, 2012 at 11:51 AM

You know the most effective phrase in Ryan’s speech? “Idle words”. It’s a polite way of saying “making stuff up and using purple prose to do it”. Idle words.

Portia46 on August 30, 2012 at 11:41 AM

Ryan’s speech was good old-fashioned politics. Taking on your opponent with civil terms. I particularly liked the comparision of the administration to a ship trying to sail on yesterday’s wind. I also liked the image of 20-year-olds in their childhood bedroom with the fading Obama posters on the wall.

These are effective images that are going to leave a mark on Team Obama. Which is why you have idiots out there declaring that the GM Plant didn’t close down in 2009. Or, my favorite, Mitch McConnell’s crack about Obama trying to get a slot in the PGA was a clear reference to Tiger Woods and therefore racist. Seriously, how on earth would anybody make such a connection unless taken by the hand and get driven there by the so-called media?

Happy Nomad on August 30, 2012 at 11:53 AM

buridan on August 30, 2012 at 11:37 AM

’80% BS??’

Really???

…for instance???

BigWyo on August 30, 2012 at 11:56 AM

Wow. The beating Drywall is taking onthis thread is epic.

Spliff Menendez on August 30, 2012 at 11:17 AM

Business as Usual!

Del Dolemonte on August 30, 2012 at 12:00 PM

Not specific to this thread, but I want to throw this out there for consideration.

New nickname for our VP candidate:

Paul “The Kracken” Ryan

Done properly, it should also be done in Buffer-style.

connertown on August 30, 2012 at 11:47 AM

Sadly, the dems will call him The Cracker.

Are Condi Rice, Sen Rubio, Gov in New Mexico, Congressman Davis, Mayor Love in Utah, Gov. Jindal, Gov Haley, Sen Scott etc non existent to the democrats?

THE democrats are the true RACISTS.

dthorny on August 30, 2012 at 12:03 PM

Damned fools – illiberal “fact checkers” are not there to actually check facts. Their job is to spray their musk atop something, to mask it with their version of history / events. They are the real-world embodiment of the Ministry of Truth. And Punderati keep misappraising their work product by treating their assertions at face value. Rather gauge the effectiveness of the far-reaching ASSOCIATED PRESS lying their god-damned asses off to everyone that reads or parrots their work product.

rayra on August 30, 2012 at 12:03 PM

I was not a huge Palin fan, but her speach was better delivered and way more impressive. Also, it had maybe one or two embellishments, and Ryan’s speach was 80% bs.
I realize it’s all about using free airtime, and bs is a fair game, but I don’t understand all the excitement about a very ordinary DC insider spouting slogans.

buridan on August 30, 2012 at 11:37 AM

Oh dear. That’s all I can say at this epic fail. I’d like to know what 80% of this speech (and that is how the word is spelled) was BS.

search4truth on August 30, 2012 at 12:03 PM

Ryan himself voted for an auto bailout under President George W. Bush that was designed to help GM, but he was a vocal critic of the one pushed through by Obama that has been widely credited with revitalizing both GM and Chrysler.

I’m just going off memory here, but didn’t the Bush administration use TARP to justify their auto bailout? While Ryan did vote for TARP, TARP was not an auto bailout and it took some twisting by the Bush administration to justify using funds for that. As such, it’s false to say that Ryan voted for an auto bailout under Bush.

The only way I can see the AP being correct here is if there was another bill that was an explicit auto bailout that Ryan voted for but ultimately failed. On a cursory search, I couldn’t find any such thing. Does anyone know about this?

NukeRidingCowboy on August 30, 2012 at 12:09 PM

I caught a liitle of Glenn Beck over the weekend, and he played a few sound bites covering the gubmint takeover of GM. One had Barry spewing lies about keeping the GM [union] jobs here in the US.

Another was I believe the CEO of GM, speaking to a leadership group in China, saying GM is committed to not only China’s current role in GM manufacturing but to expanding that role in the future, or words to that effect.

Beck mentioned that the GOP should make a commercial of thse very sound bites, and hopefully they will.

Sweet_Thang on August 30, 2012 at 12:10 PM

I was not a huge Palin fan, but her speach was better delivered and way more impressive. Also, it had maybe one or two embellishments, and Ryan’s speach was 80% bs.
I realize it’s all about using free airtime, and bs is a fair game, but I don’t understand all the excitement about a very ordinary DC insider spouting slogans.

buridan on August 30, 2012 at 11:37 AM

Well, I loved Palin’s speech in ’08 and thought it set a new standard, but I would argue that Ryan’s speech transcended that.

It went beyond just “good” delivery–clarity, well-written speech, etc. There was a kind of earnestness–and urgency–conveyed that I don’t think I’ve ever heard before. When a kind of “speechiness” is surpassed and real, honest communication kicks in, you know you have something special. That’s what I saw in Ryan last night. Palin had that also, but I felt that Ryan’s speech was even more artfully crafted.

But as someone else has stated . . . what does it matter, as long as the message gets across? Both speak from the heart. As did so many of the speakers from the last few days–Ann Romney, Susanna Martinez, Rick Santorum. In the end, what matters is the message.

pianomomma on August 30, 2012 at 12:12 PM

buridan on August 30, 2012 at 11:37 AM

Hmmmm. Do you post here a lot? Your handle sems a bit unfamiliar.

a capella on August 30, 2012 at 12:12 PM

Hilarious
Msdnc continues the paul ryan lied in his speech meme

Nothing factual in it….yada yad;a yada

Unstinkingbelievable

cmsinaz on August 30, 2012 at 12:13 PM

Too many folks are responding to the troll buridan.

An old, good rule? Come on, you already know.

Do Not feed the trolls.

I know it is fun to get the licks in, to hit back,
but ignore them. really.

We need to stay focused here.
They are not here for a debate, from the top.
It will be FUD, all the way down.

So no more feeding these trolls.
MMmm, kay?

Get involved locally!
Maker phone calls, it will bring your spirits up,
and every little bit helps.

PaleoRider on August 30, 2012 at 12:16 PM

Hmmmm. Do you post here a lot? Your handle sems a bit unfamiliar.
a capella on August 30, 2012 at 12:12 PM

“Sleeper cell” Moby.

Dr. Carlo Lombardi on August 30, 2012 at 12:17 PM

Hmmmm. Do you post here a lot? Your handle sems a bit unfamiliar.

a capella on August 30, 2012 at 12:12 PM

No history. sleeper cell.

Welcome to hot air Organizing For Obama!

tom daschle concerned on August 30, 2012 at 12:17 PM

It went beyond just “good” delivery–clarity, well-written speech, etc. There was a kind of earnestness–and urgency–conveyed that I don’t think I’ve ever heard before. When a kind of “speechiness” is surpassed and real, honest communication kicks in, you know you have something special. That’s what I saw in Ryan last night. Palin had that also, but I felt that Ryan’s speech was even more artfully crafted.

pianomomma on August 30, 2012 at 12:12 PM

This! I’ve listened to a LOT of political speeches in my day and very few reach that standard.

Portia46 on August 30, 2012 at 12:21 PM

Qiuck pop in,as i noted last night,and sent into tips,and thank-you Ed Morssissey for attacking/straightening out this LIE……
…..on Hopeys Never/ending Speechy(s) PROMISING(s) TO GET ELECTED
AT ALL COSTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

canopfor on August 30, 2012 at 12:23 PM

UghaRoo…..Thats Ed Morrissey,not(Ed Morssissey )!

canopfor on August 30, 2012 at 12:25 PM

DRAT!

Missed an opportunity to use one of my most favorite quotes by Juvenal:


Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

The War Planner on August 30, 2012 at 12:26 PM

I just sent the author/”researcher” from the Milwaukee Journal Sentinal (Politifact contributor) an email with a link to this Hot Air page.

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2012/aug/29/paul-ryan/did-barack-obama-break-promise-keep-gm-plant-open/

Anyone care to join me?

Mr_Magoo on August 30, 2012 at 12:28 PM

Oh dear. That’s all I can say at this epic fail. I’d like to know what 80% of this speech (and that is how the word is spelled) was BS.

search4truth on August 30, 2012 at 12:03 PM

BS: 1. Medicare claims – any Ryan’s plans will do the same things to Medicare as Obamacare did, just redirect the money differently.
2. Bowles-Simpson comission. Ryan (unlike Coburn) did everything to make sure there will be no recommendation.
3. US credit rating – that’s from the guy who voted for TARP (pushed the congressional GOP into it, in fact), Medicare part B etc.

Of course there is more, like GM plant etc, etc. I assume the bio sections were not bs, that’s why 80% and not 100%

buridan on August 30, 2012 at 12:31 PM

Wow, that’s a lot of red.

KingGold on August 30, 2012 at 12:31 PM

MSM fact checkers have an important role to play.

Without fact checkers at places like MSNBC and CNN to censor the broadcasts, liberals might be exposed to actual facts.

malclave on August 30, 2012 at 12:32 PM

2. Bowles-Simpson comission. Ryan (unlike Coburn) did everything to make sure there will be no recommendation.
buridan on August 30, 2012 at 12:31 PM

Read what Ryan said. His point, I believe, was that the whole thing was a sham. Obama never intended IMO to do anything. He never fought for it – just said thanks and walked away. Great job Mr. President.

Mr_Magoo on August 30, 2012 at 12:36 PM

I believe the retrofit costs would have been higher in Janesville, which is why the plant wasn’t chosen — but it’s clear that the plant wasn’t closed under Bush, and that Obama had an opportunity to make good on his promise.

The retrofit costs became a LOT higher when, with the approval of the Treasury just before its bankruptcy, GM auctioned off all the equipment that it didn’t strip and send off to other plants.

I can think of only one reason why Team Obama would have Government Motors hold onto a shell of a building that is approaching 100 years old rather than put it on the bankruptcy auction block (like so many other shuttered GM facilities were) – to sitck a thumb in Paul Ryan’s eye.

Steve Eggleston on August 30, 2012 at 12:39 PM

Whoa, that HTML went haywire.

Steve Eggleston on August 30, 2012 at 12:40 PM

Wow. The beating Drywall is taking onthis thread is epic.

Spliff Menendez on August 30, 2012 at 11:17 AM

Business as Usual!

Del Dolemonte on August 30, 2012 at 12:00 PM

It must be Thursday.

Steve Eggleston on August 30, 2012 at 12:41 PM

Read what Ryan said. His point, I believe, was that the whole thing was a sham. Obama never intended IMO to do anything. He never fought for it – just said thanks and walked away. Great job Mr. President.

Well, there was no recommendation, so Obama was not even posed this problem. It takes two to play this game, and at that moment Ryan and Obama were partners, neither of them wanted the commission to succeed.
Except about Ryan we know it for sure, and about Obama we only have a (pretty good) guess.

buridan on August 30, 2012 at 12:42 PM

Regarding the two energy companies that Congressman Ryan proposed to receive stimulus funds: both of them were located in Madison, in the congressional district represented by Democrat Tammy Baldwin.

Not in Ryan’s district.

J Baustian on August 30, 2012 at 12:43 PM

As president, I will lead an effort to retool plants like the GM facility in Janesville so we can build the fuel-efficient cars of tomorrow and create good-paying jobs in Wisconsin and all across America.” Source: media.gazettextra.com / via:uppermichiganssource.com

hey ummmmm, dave?

::ice::

put it on that wouldya?

ted c on August 30, 2012 at 12:45 PM

The only way I can see the AP being correct here is if there was another bill that was an explicit auto bailout that Ryan voted for but ultimately failed. On a cursory search, I couldn’t find any such thing. Does anyone know about this?

NukeRidingCowboy on August 30, 2012 at 12:09 PM

There was a bill written by Barney Franks’ staffers in early-December 2009, after Bush made clear that with or without Congressional approval, he would bail out the auto industry, that would have used up to $21 billion of a previously-appropriated $25 billion “clean-car” plant upgrade program for said bailout. The major difference between that and the use of TARP is there wasn’t enough money to facilitate the seizures of either Chrysler or GM.

The upshot is that Fiat/Chrysler converted much of its post-bankruptcy liability (if memory serves, $3.5 billion) from a TARP-based loan to a “clean-car” plant upgrade loan.

Steve Eggleston on August 30, 2012 at 12:46 PM

I can think of only one reason why Team Obama would have Government Motors hold onto a shell of a building that is approaching 100 years old rather than put it on the bankruptcy auction block (like so many other shuttered GM facilities were) – to sitck a thumb in Paul Ryan’s eye.

Steve Eggleston on August 30, 2012 at 12:39 PM

But you are first assuming that Obama meant any of his promise to keep the plant open. That’s a bad assumption. He said it to pander for votes. He didn’t give a crap about anything but bailing out the UAW once he was elected.

rockmom on August 30, 2012 at 12:46 PM

buridan on August 30, 2012 at 11:37 AM

And another Sleeper Cell is activated…

Del Dolemonte on August 30, 2012 at 12:46 PM

Comment pages: 1 2 3