Grave digging in the voter rolls

posted at 4:46 pm on August 28, 2012 by Jazz Shaw

Glenn Reynolds has a surprisingly good piece in the NY Post this week which touches on a hot-button topic for me. Called “Dead voters & a dying democracy,” Glenn identifies a number of deficiencies in our current system of identifying, registering and verifying citizens on the voter roles and identifies what he feels would be the requirements for a fictional, “ideal” system.

Americans will fight and die for democracy, but when it comes to the actual business of elections, stuffed ballot boxes and cemetery voters are the subject of jokes more than outrage — though a democracy in which elections are decided by fraudulent votes created by corrupt politicians is no democracy at all.

That contradiction is the subject of “Who’s Counting: How Fraudsters and Bureaucrats Put Your Vote At Risk,” by journalist John Fund and former Justice Department attorney Hans von Spakovsky.

For all the national outrage about “hanging chads” and the like back in 2000, very little has been done since to improve the reliability of our system for registering and identifying voters, and recording and counting votes. In some ways, in fact, we’ve moved backward.

This is a subject which I realize carries a significant “ick factor” for a lot of folks, but as unpleasant as it may be, it really requires attention. While we’re far, far from perfect at it, our current system at least makes an effort at recording and tracking the births of United States citizens and the official dates of naturalization for those who immigrate. This results in a fairly well populated baseline of initially qualified voters. But we do very little to track the permanent relocation of voters, (removing them from the rolls in their former home state after they register in the new location) and we do almost nothing to track them when they die. These critical housekeeping tasks are left to not only the honesty, but the thoroughness and organization of people who move. And the task of tracking the deceased and purging them from the rolls is far more daunting.

The upshot of this, as Reynolds correctly notes, is that many areas have voter rolls which are stuffed full of names of people ineligible or incapable of voting. Even if you ignore the obvious invitation for mischief which this extends, you could at least be put off by the fact that these names falsely force the turnout percentages downward in a depressing fashion. But the question remains, how do we establish a tracking system for those who move or die, do so in a legal, implementable fashion, and then tie it into the official voter registration system? If you’re waiting for me to finish this article by offering a miracle cure-all to the problem, read no further. I don’t have one.

EDIT: United States would probably be better than “stats.” Thanks, as usual, to our army of unpaid editors. (Jazz)


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Revenents and ghouls.

thatsafactjack on August 28, 2012 at 4:48 PM

We’re a REPUBLIC, not a god-damned Democracy.

rayra on August 28, 2012 at 4:48 PM

United Stats citizens

well, they are stats in some ways, but I think you meant states, Jazz.

dippin’ into the sauce w/ Ed last night?

ted c on August 28, 2012 at 4:49 PM

Sorry, REVENANT.

thatsafactjack on August 28, 2012 at 4:49 PM

Providing identification would be a big leap in the right direction. If you’re dead and no longer have a driver’s license, you usually won’t show up to vote.

TeaTrekkie on August 28, 2012 at 4:50 PM

I see an uptick in polling for Obama after this article. For some reason.

Sterling Holobyte on August 28, 2012 at 4:51 PM

The Stages of Life:
1) Birth.
2) Death.
3) Infinity Permanent Democrat Voter.

VorDaj on August 28, 2012 at 4:51 PM

I thought Jazz was going to post about the awesome technology called “shovels”

Odie1941 on August 28, 2012 at 4:51 PM

Are they weeding out brain dead voters as well?

bayview on August 28, 2012 at 4:53 PM

How about having the the Postal service and Social Security being required to notify local registrars of changes of address and deaths?
Match those names against voter rolls. For those under 65, a death certificate gets filed by a funeral home whenever someone dies. Require a copy go to the local voter registrar at he last address f the deceased. It’s a start.

Curmudgeon on August 28, 2012 at 4:54 PM

bayview on August 28, 2012 at 4:53 PM

No. Democrats still get to vote.

thatsafactjack on August 28, 2012 at 4:55 PM

How do you even begin to unscrew the situation, when the punderati can’t or won’t even use the proper terms / definitions. Word-concepts like ‘Representative Republic’, ‘Direct Democracy’, Facism, communism, marxism, illegal alien, Socialism.
The ‘Right’ pussyfoots around terms based on phony illiberal outrage, while the Left commits one fraud after another. It’s no wonder a generation of ignorant fools doesn’t grasp the importance and necessity of the Electoral College. They’ve been deliberately denied any education in US Civics and History. Taught only ‘social justice’ – which is itself a fraud-name for marxist class warfare.

…meanwhile, the SEIU and some ACORN front-group just won their Ohio case to facilitate more election fraud, by suing to allow anyone to vote in any precinct.

rayra on August 28, 2012 at 4:57 PM

Require the SSN of each voter. This would solve the problem and also prevent people from voting absentee in multiple locations.

aniptofar on August 28, 2012 at 4:58 PM

The deaths of all persons with a social security number should be available on the social security death registry. This is generally considered quite reliable. It would be a minute or two’s work for a state to run the social security numbers of all registered voters through the death registry in mid-October.

I liked the idea of the postal service providing help on people moving.

I note that every election that there is some sort of court case asking to extend the voting hours in certain reliably democrat-voting areas. What this permits is that people can arrive and take the place of registered voters who did not vote. This practice should be curtailed; but I am not certain what remedy could be acquired in advance.

levi from queens on August 28, 2012 at 5:01 PM

Until we can clean up this mess of a system, here’s a thought: How about a fairly good resolution security camera with a time stamp, and note the time that a person signs in to vote (I think they do that anyway in Texas). If we can’t check ID in so many states, we can at least have a video record of what the person looks like. It won’t stop the fraud, but it puts the fraudster in peril of prosecution if it is found out that they are not who they say they are.

Granted, a picture is not a positive ID. But it sure can turn in to one if posted on billboards and the local news with an offer of a reward for identifying them. And to those that think it intrusive to take their picture, tell them to have a look up in the corner at any convenience store, bank, or other place of business. It happens all the time.

Just a thought…….

iurockhead on August 28, 2012 at 5:01 PM

unpaid editors

Heh. Saps.

Axe on August 28, 2012 at 5:01 PM

All Voter ID legislation going forward should include a requirement to flush the rolls in their entirety. Require re-registration, under stricter guidelines. And THEN require valid state ID at the time and place of the vote. Permanent Absentee needs to be done away with as well. Far too much fraud going on there as well.

rayra on August 28, 2012 at 5:03 PM

Almost all obituaries are published in the local newspaper, match them with the local voter registration rolls. When a match is found the office that keeps the rolls can verify the event and mark the voter as deceased. A checks and balance could be set up.

It might take a small group of people to do the task but it would be money better spent than on other tasks. If the government can track a batch of beef with ecoli down to the plant and date it should not be insurmountable.

Even if they only caught 80 or 90 percent, it would be an improvement.

iamsaved on August 28, 2012 at 5:05 PM

Voter fraud should be classified as treason, and those guilty of it should be executed.

Rebar on August 28, 2012 at 5:06 PM

When I went to early vote, those in charge of voting barely looked at my voting card. When I asked if any other woman with my card could have voted with it, they said “Yes, we can’t ask for a photo ID.” How easy it would have been for me to use the voter card of a dead relative or one that I had stolen to vote again, and again, and again. You can bet that Democrats and even a few Republicans do exactly that, which is why the Democrats are so against photo voter ID.

lukjuj on August 28, 2012 at 5:06 PM

The deaths of all persons with a social security number should be available on the social security death registry. ……

levi from queens on August 28, 2012 at 5:01 PM

And the immigration status of non-citzens is also available through SSA, if they are here legally. If they are not listed in the SSA roles, they are probably not here legally. Shouldn’t be that hard to cross-check.

iurockhead on August 28, 2012 at 5:07 PM

OUCH!! Check out this new SBA list ad.

ted c on August 28, 2012 at 5:05 PM

ted c:Goon Watch/Non-Mutiny Ordeal:)
====================================

Shelley Rossetter ‏@SRossetter

Protester getting overheated as the march moves north on Brush Street. #rnc2012 http://instagr.am/p/O4rWhLH-1M/
https://twitter.com/SRossetter

Michelle Malkin ‏@michellemalkin

RT @robport ND delegate just texted me saying they were instructed to chant “USA” to drown out dissent. #RNCpowergrab

https://twitter.com/michellemalkin

canopfor on August 28, 2012 at 5:09 PM

Sorry, but any review of current procedures related to voting is clearly racist and subject to action by the DOJ.

/

Dead Hand Control on August 28, 2012 at 5:12 PM

Glenn Reynolds has a surprisingly good piece in the NY Post this week which touches on a hot-button topic for me.

LOL! As opposed to his usually dreck? Just kidding!

Cindy Munford on August 28, 2012 at 5:13 PM

Are those Japanese graves in the front page picture?

chimney sweep on August 28, 2012 at 5:14 PM

Here’s a crazy thought: Have the IRS send out a voter certification to every citizen when their income tax return is received and verified.

Hell, if they can enforce ObarmyCare, surely they can do this…

hillbillyjim on August 28, 2012 at 5:14 PM

Having lost two elderly relatives over the past couple of years, I know that Social Security must be notified of the death of a SS recipient ASAP. In both relatives’ cases, the undertaker did the notifying as part of the funeral process. Why can’t notifying the local election commission be required as well?

I really, really hate to suggest yet another law, but in this instance I think it should be a federal law that deaths be reported to the election commission, and the election commission be required to purge that name from the voting lists within sixty days.

catsandbooks on August 28, 2012 at 5:14 PM

canopfor on August 28, 2012 at 5:09 PM

Looks like someone needs to take care of the 99% since they don’t seem to have thought this out. Florida, August, fluids and light clothing.

Cindy Munford on August 28, 2012 at 5:16 PM

canopfor on August 28, 2012 at 5:09 PM

Looks like someone needs to take care of the 99% since they don’t seem to have thought this out. Florida, August, fluids and light clothing.

Cindy Munford on August 28, 2012 at 5:16 PM

I’m sorry..I am wicked..made me laugh.
Their suffering makes me chuckle.

bazil9 on August 28, 2012 at 5:20 PM

Require re-registration

rayra on August 28, 2012 at 5:03 PM

Hmm. Not a bad idear. Mandatory re-registration every two years.

I like yer thinkin’ rayray.

Lanceman on August 28, 2012 at 5:20 PM

canopfor on August 28, 2012 at 5:09 PM

Looks like someone needs to take care of the 99% since they don’t seem to have thought this out. Florida, August, fluids and light clothing.

Cindy Munford on August 28, 2012 at 5:16 PM

Cindy Munford:

Morons,btw,the above links cover the Delegate rule Change Kerfluffle,and Protest watch!

Heres a Live Streaming Link,UnIterruptedo of the GOP
Convention!:)
=============

Oh,they are in Roll Call Mode NOW:)

http://www.breakingnews.com/topic/republican-national-convention-2012

canopfor on August 28, 2012 at 5:23 PM

I’m sorry..I am wicked..made me laugh.
Their suffering makes me chuckle.

bazil9 on August 28, 2012 at 5:20 PM

bazil9:Tee-Hee,haha:)

canopfor on August 28, 2012 at 5:26 PM

Are they weeding out brain dead voters as well?

bayview on August 28, 2012 at 4:53 PM

…nope!…haven’t you seen all the polls?

KOOLAID2 on August 28, 2012 at 5:29 PM

bazil9 on August 28, 2012 at 5:20 PM

To be honest, I’d love for the GOP to take the time to save these people from themselves and give them what they need. Water, medical services if necessary and maybe a open sided tent to get out of the sun. If not to make them comfortable, at least see that they come to no harm. You might not be able to cure stupid, but you can give it something else to think about.

Cindy Munford on August 28, 2012 at 5:31 PM

1. Show ID when voting
2. You miss 3 election cycles, your name is thrown out
3. See #2. You have to re-register to vote

Takes care of those who move.
Takes care of the dead.

Unfortunately, it does not take care of people too damned stupid to educate themselves prior to voting.

GarandFan on August 28, 2012 at 5:31 PM

Yes, yes, yes, and hell yes.

hillbillyjim on August 28, 2012 at 5:33 PM

hillbillyjim on August 28, 2012 at 5:33 PM

@

GarandFan on August 28, 2012 at 5:31 PM

I forgot to blockquote. Sorry.

hillbillyjim on August 28, 2012 at 5:35 PM

Cindy Munford on August 28, 2012 at 5:31 PM

That would be a kind gesture Cindy..I aint feeling kind.
Water and medical attention is their problem, they are grown ups- if they cant handle it-leave. Not our responsibility. If charity groups or their lib mentors want to take care of them..by all means.
We are here for a convention, not to baby sit ding bats. IMO.

bazil9 on August 28, 2012 at 5:39 PM

1. Show ID when voting
2. You miss 3 election cycles, your name is thrown out
3. See #2. You have to re-register to vote

Takes care of those who move.
Takes care of the dead.

Unfortunately, it does not take care of people too damned stupid to educate themselves prior to voting.

GarandFan on August 28, 2012 at 5:31 PM

Me likey.

Yes@ the damned stupid.

bazil9 on August 28, 2012 at 5:40 PM

1. Show ID when voting
2. You miss 3 election cycles, your name is thrown out
3. See #2. You have to re-register to vote

Takes care of those who move.
Takes care of the dead.

Unfortunately, it does not take care of people too damned stupid to educate themselves prior to voting.

GarandFan on August 28, 2012 at 5:31 PM

GarandFan:

Agreed,in Ontario,Canada we use that method,we get
cards in the mail,which tells us,which voting area
to go to.

We must show the card,our ID,(it better match your home address)
and your all set,but,

No Card
No ID,
you don`t vote!:)

canopfor on August 28, 2012 at 5:46 PM

Regarding dying voters: have a law whereby every doctor who signs a death certificate must send a copy to the state voter registrar, who then removes the deceased person from state voter registration rolls.

Living voters who move usually take it upon themselves to register to vote in their new location, but seldom take the trouble to unregister themselves in their old location.

For homeowners, municipal governments usually keep track of home sales, since the seller is removed from property tax rolls, and the buyer is added to the tax rolls. There could be state laws requiring municipalities to remove homeowners from precinct voter lists whenever a primary residence in the precinct is sold.

The problem is more complex for renters, but most states regulate rental property to ensure that the rights of both tenants and landlords are respected, and electric utility companies are also government-regulated in most states. Since it is very rare for anyone to not have electric power in their rental home, if a tenant voluntarily cuts off electrical service to his/her rental property, the state utility regulatory agency could notify the voter registrar of the tenant’s intention to move, and delete the tenants from the voter rolls in that precinct. The tenants would then be responsible for re-registering to vote in their new location, even if they move elsewhere in the same state.

Steve Z on August 28, 2012 at 5:47 PM

. If not to make them comfortable, at least see that they come to no harm. You might not be able to cure stupid, but you can give it something else to think about.

Cindy Munford on August 28, 2012 at 5:31 PM

Well, yes. But there’s no harm in laughing at them and calling them mildly insulting names as you minister to their stupidity.

Solaratov on August 28, 2012 at 5:49 PM

bazil9 on August 28, 2012 at 5:39 PM

Apparently the mayor is handling that anyway and also tried to give them a heads up on what to expect. We’ve seen these people, so we aren’t surprised that they didn’t listen.

Cindy Munford on August 28, 2012 at 5:49 PM

For all the national outrage about “hanging chads” and the like back in 2000, very little has been done since to improve the reliability of our system for registering and identifying voters, and recording and counting votes.

It isn’t that people don’t want something done, it is that the government and special interest groups who benefit from voter fraud don’t want to fix the problem. And while the cemetery vote may be the butt of jokes, they are cynical jokes and everyone knows it.

We have an out of control, unconstitutional, criminal, corrupt, fascist government that resists any change that might make it clean up its act.

woodNfish on August 28, 2012 at 5:49 PM

Solaratov on August 28, 2012 at 5:49 PM

Absolutely, I consider that a bonus. Or we could just do the bless their hearts thing.

Cindy Munford on August 28, 2012 at 5:50 PM

We’ve seen these people, so we aren’t surprised that they didn’t listen.

Cindy Munford on August 28, 2012 at 5:49 PM

Uh huh..not real bright. If I were to go protest somewhere..I would check out the environment and conditions and be prepared. No brainer.

bazil9 on August 28, 2012 at 5:59 PM

Absolutely, I consider that a bonus. Or we could just do the bless their hearts thing.

Cindy Munford on August 28, 2012 at 5:50 PM

Not you sweet Cindy..never! ;)

bazil9 on August 28, 2012 at 6:00 PM

Outside of illegal vote casting and ballot stuffing, there is one more kind of abuse: renting games. I have read about these in Wisconsin and Minnesota, but they’re likely more prevalent. Before the election, a rather large but well organized group (usually students) rent a place for $1/month in a key swing district, register to vote, and then swing the balance off the hinges on the election day. Assuming that the whole group doesn’t vote twice (in their dorm and their new district), they are perfectly legal – and yet the practice grates against the very idea of representative republic. Can anything be done about that, I wonder?

Archivarix on August 28, 2012 at 6:40 PM

Federal elections should require a federal election id. We need to get over this nonsense of federal i.d.’s…we already have one. Tie a SS# to an address and call it a day!

therealfranklin on August 28, 2012 at 6:51 PM

The Stages of Life:
1) Birth.
2) Death.
3) Infinity Permanent Democrat Voter.

VorDaj on August 28, 2012 at 4:51 PM

THREAD WINNER!!

Khun Joe on August 28, 2012 at 8:18 PM

This is why “they” wanted to capture the Secretary’s of State, and on down to the local election supervisor.

A big problem is that the privilege to vote is granted by the States, with the restrictions of US Constitution Amendments. Within our current era, it allows the subversives to grant votes to anyone because our heritage is under assault, whereby we had previously common sense and pride for the gains associated with residing here.

If I’m still around when we hit defcon 1, I’m game…I know who will win and why.

John Kettlewell on August 28, 2012 at 9:59 PM

OK, when you move, you get a new drivers license at the DMV. When you get a new license, they offer to register you to vote. Why not have them list your old address on the form, and they notify your prior location as a part of registering you for the new address?

todler on August 28, 2012 at 10:59 PM

an ID ( needed to drink and get into the strip club) and proof of residency( like a utility bill with your name)( both of which is required for a library card, a parking permit, an EBT card ) is all it takes to end this. social security card/number too which one supposedly needs to work legally.

there are no restrictions on access the Social Security Death Registry- anyone can do it ( people use it when researching their ancestry.) . it should be cross referenced with voting lists-very easily done by the feds if they wanted to do it. SSN will also toss up illegals.

not securing a legal voting process it is an affront to everything black people in particular suffered in the years after emancipation. it is beyond hypocrisy-it is outright tyranny. it’s the new democrat sanctioned jim crow ( come to think of it , democrats were responsible for jim crow to begin with and responsible for efforts to keep blacks from voting)-in reverse. the voting act of 1965 isn’t meant to be used as a sentimental ambiguous smoke screen to disenfranchise citizens by overwhelming their vote with the votes of the dead . the DOJ is using it as a flimsy shield to make specious claims that it’s still 1957, the klan is riding through every neighborhood and blacks are too scared to go to the polls for fear of violence. now it’s the black panthers at the polls scaring old white people and threatening to kill white babies. the black kkk : a different shade of gangster but still democrat. and we know eric holder and barry or ok with that sort of intimidation- the intimidation of white grandmas.

it is still will of the majority that is suppose to decide the vote. tampering with the integrity of the vote is an attempt to manufacture the will of the minority as supreme. it called social justice by any means necessary. what one can’t achieve with democracy, one gets by undermining democracy and/or force. i say they’re on the step before force if we do not stop them now.

mittens on August 29, 2012 at 3:10 AM

Granted, a picture is not a positive ID. But it sure can turn in to one if posted on billboards and the local news with an offer of a reward for identifying them. And to those that think it intrusive to take their picture, tell them to have a look up in the corner at any convenience store, bank, or other place of business. It happens all the time.

Just a thought…….

iurockhead on August 28, 2012 at 5:01 PM

I like it but we tried that with the old chestnut “you need id to…” and all we got was slammed. Not that it stopped me but convincing arguments full of logic somehow fail to those who are smart challenged.

landowner on August 29, 2012 at 4:06 PM