Oh my: Romney/Ryan lead on Medicare in Florida and Ohio?

posted at 6:01 pm on August 23, 2012 by Allahpundit

An important addendum to Ed’s CBS/NYT number-crunch from lefty Greg Sargent:

The breakdown sent over by CBS:

* In Florida, 48 percent of seniors say Romney would do a better job on Medicare, versus 44 percent who say that about Obama (the Ryan pick was supposed to be particularly problematic in this state).

* In Ohio, 49 percent of seniors say Romney would do a better job on Medicare, versus 43 percent who say that about Obama.

* In Wisconsin, 49 percent say Obama would do a better job on Medicare, versus 46 percent who say that about Romney. Close.

What’s striking is that the poll also finds very big majorities of seniors in all three states support leaving Medicare as it is, while small minorities support changing it so government provides fixed amounts to spend on insurance.

Follow the link for the numbers on those majorities. Three possibilities here, none of which is exclusive of the others. One: Like Sargent says, seniors are a solidly Republican demographic generally these days. The whole point of Democratic Mediscare tactics is to cut into that advantage, but maybe they’re underestimating how committed seniors have become to the GOP. They’re not single-issue voters, as entitlement politics tends to presume; they’re socially conservative too, and the Democrats have been drifting away from them on that for years. It’s not that Mediscare won’t work, in other words, it’ll just be harder to make a dent than anyone thought because Romney/Ryan is getting a partisan benefit of the doubt.

Two: Ryan’s message about needing to reform Medicare to save it is penetrating. That would be fabulous if true, as that’s the core benefit of having him on the ticket — driving the idea into Americans’ skulls that if they really love their “social safety net” programs as much as they seem to, they’d better be prepared to tinker with the mechanics soon before the gears start flying off. Even if Obama wins the election, it’ll be a consolation prize that Mitt and Paul were able to sound the alarm about that with the incredible megaphone that a presidential campaign provides. The point here is that if seniors have been convinced by Ryan that it’s fiscally impossible to preserve Medicare precisely “as it is” long-term, then they may conclude that a thoughtful reform plan is the best chance to keep it close to as-is, which in turn explains Florida’s and Ohio’s preference for the GOP on this issue.

Three, because I’m an eeyore: What if we’re looking at the wrong demographic? The theory all along has been that seniors will be the first to freak out if liberal Mediscaring starts to bite. But I’m not sure that’s true. Remember this data set from the CNN poll of Wisconsin a few days ago?

Romney and Ryan have done a bang-up job thus far of hammering the point that Ryan’s plan wouldn’t touch Medicare for anyone over 55. That’s great news for senior citizens — no wonder so many of them who want the program left “as it is” support the GOP — but the flip side is that near-seniors, from ages 40-60, say, might start panicking about bearing the full brunt of Ryan’s reforms even though they’re nearing retirement. I hope pollsters keep an eye on the age splits when they ask this question, because in their haste to spot a senior stampede, they might be missing a near-senior one.

There’s the obligatory eeyorism. The good news is that, so long as Romney/Ryan can earn a stalemate on this issue, the electorate will be free to decide based on the most important issue of all.


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Jobs…like a laser.

d1carter on August 23, 2012 at 6:05 PM

Keep going R&R – you are on the right track.

gophergirl on August 23, 2012 at 6:06 PM

Math. The numbers are irrefutable.

Romney hired well.

beatcanvas on August 23, 2012 at 6:07 PM

Well no wonder the Dems have decided to make abortion and the fictional war on women their theme in Charlotte!

COgirl on August 23, 2012 at 6:08 PM

Romney and Ryan have done a bang-up job thus far of hammering the point that Ryan’s plan wouldn’t touch Medicare for anyone over 55. That’s great news for senior citizens — no wonder so many of them who want the program left “as it is” support the GOP — but the flip side is that near-seniors, from ages 40-60, say, might start panicking about bearing the full brunt of Ryan’s reforms even though they’re nearing retirement.

AP shouldn’t 40-60 above be 40-54? Otherwise, given your argument, why would those 55-60 “start panicking” about Ryan’s reforms if they aren’t going to be affected under it.

newtopia on August 23, 2012 at 6:09 PM

Dems thought they had a full house with the medicare argument when Ryan was picked. They lost to a straight flush!

Keep rollin Rx2

Funny how just a few short weeks ago people were complaining that Romney needs to stop always being on defense. Well…..

HoustonRight on August 23, 2012 at 6:10 PM

..under it

*by them.

newtopia on August 23, 2012 at 6:10 PM

Well no wonder the Dems have decided to make abortion and the fictional war on women their theme in Charlotte!

COgirl on August 23, 2012 at 6:08 PM

Yep, and their sycophant legacy media is doing all they can do. The good news…nobody believes the media anymore.

d1carter on August 23, 2012 at 6:11 PM

Huge. Now, run Romney’s Mediscare ad around the clock in national ad buys! Get to it. AND target the youth and under 50 vote next; not next, now also! Say it outright in ads: O’s plan will bankrupt Medicare, and O’s plan will leave the 15 bureaucrats no other choice but to implement draconian nightmare rationing solutions. Young people have all the rational reason to switch to us based on the medical care issue alone.

anotherJoe on August 23, 2012 at 6:11 PM

AP shouldn’t 40-60 above be 40-54? Otherwise, given your argument, why would those 55-60 “start panicking” about Ryan’s reforms if they aren’t going to be affected under it.

In theory, yes, but if you look at the poll numbers I posted, the panicky demographic runs all the way up to age 64. I think near-seniors may be thinking that if Romney/Ryan win and Congress takes up their reform plan, they may be willing to compromise on the ages of people hit by the reforms. People who are already on Medicare, i.e. 65 and older, will surely be spared, but people in their early 60s might be getting nervous at the prospect that they won’t be exempted after all.

Allahpundit on August 23, 2012 at 6:12 PM

Well there’s a lot of small business owners in the 40 to 54 range, and plenty of them who are on the older side of that spectrum have kids in their 20s who can’t get jobs and are still living at home. I’ll take my chances that Medicare isn’t the most important issue to them in this election.

ardenenoch on August 23, 2012 at 6:12 PM

Of course they are. If there is one demographic that is going to look at the real facts and beyond the FUD because it directly affects them, it is seniors. They’re old, they’re not stupid.

MJBrutus on August 23, 2012 at 6:12 PM

folks in their 40s have always known medicare and ss need to be reformed….I’ve always assumed ss would not be there for me anyway and have prepared for it….

cmsinaz on August 23, 2012 at 6:12 PM

Mediscare isn’t working because many seniors grasp the problem and see Barry and the gang clearly for who and what they are.

The near seniors aren’t stupid either. Many know how tenuous Medicare is right now and the future trajectory isn’t pretty either. Ryan’s reform ideas hold the best hope that some form of the program will actually be available to near seniors when they become eligible.

Slainte on August 23, 2012 at 6:14 PM

Go R2!

cmsinaz on August 23, 2012 at 6:14 PM

Allahpundit on August 23, 2012 at 6:12 PM

Oy vey. You completely overlook or intentionally ignore the fact that the premium support plan is optional for all future beneficiaries. And in fact, it is the lifeline, if enough people opt for it, that will keep the benefit there for them when they are eligible.

MJBrutus on August 23, 2012 at 6:14 PM

If I’m a senior citizen , who am I going to trust with taking care of me when I need caring ?
A. A marxist thug who doesn’t take care of his own family members in poverty, who gets his thrills by killing babies who don’t die the first time, who has an actual Dr. Death making policy for him , who got rid of his own typical white grandma when she could have become inconvenient to him

or

B. 2 family men raised with American values, who have been successful because of their own hard work, who respect life and fellow Americans ?

burrata on August 23, 2012 at 6:15 PM

That’s because Romney/Ryan have ditched any real proposals to seriously reform or reduce Medicare and instead have gone full out leftist on it.

AngusMc on August 23, 2012 at 6:16 PM

Allah –

If anyone around 40 thinks they’re “nearing retirement”, they’re nuts or independently wealthy.

It’s the people on the bubble, 50ish, that are wigged out by the proposal, and they have the right to be because the Dems keep screaming it’s a scare tactic meant to feed them to Wall St.

Only way to counter it is provide hard numbers that either

(A) Romney/Ryan will save them or

(B) Shows irrefutable proof that without reform, they are not going to see any Medicare dollars, let alone the status quo.

budfox on August 23, 2012 at 6:16 PM

Oy vey. You completely overlook or intentionally ignore the fact that the premium support plan is optional for all future beneficiaries.
MJBrutus on August 23, 2012 at 6:14 PM

That fact that it is option is what makes it an unserious reform. There is nothing stopping people from choosing to stay in Medicare as it exists today. Why would anyone deliberately take an option that meant getting fewer guaranteed benefits? So Medicare still goes bankrupt because the reform is optional rather than system-wide.

AngusMc on August 23, 2012 at 6:18 PM

burrata on August 23, 2012 at 6:15 PM

Very well put! Bravo!

indyvet on August 23, 2012 at 6:18 PM

Oh my: Romney/Ryan lead on Medicare in Florida and Ohio?

But, but, but…

Also I love how you gloss over the real news and that is how badly medicare is hurting Mitt’s chances.

This race is over. Lucky for you and your site’s increasingly garish and poorly designed ad strategies.

tommyhawk on August 23, 2012 at 9:50 AM

Flora Duh on August 23, 2012 at 6:19 PM

but the flip side is that near-seniors, from ages 40-60, say, might start panicking about bearing the full brunt of Ryan’s reforms even though they’re nearing retirement.

Nope. I’m within that group and I am smart enough to know that if changes aren’t made now, the programs more than likely won’t be there for me when I need them.

And they definitely won’t be there for my son…

ladyingray on August 23, 2012 at 6:20 PM

Just curious, If I am 65 and have a child under 26, can they be on my Medicare (Insurance) until they are 26?

weaselyone on August 23, 2012 at 6:21 PM

I think that Obama has decided that he has to run on the War on Women because women are going to vote for R&R in droves- it’s not just that they are good looking, but they kind of remind you of your Dad and older brother who help you do your taxes, and get your finances straightened out. Also, women are the ones who take care of the elderly and worry about the kids- the R&R plan shoots both ways, jobs and medicare. Women who are not news junkies like me and vote with their guts are going to like what they see and hear when R&R start hitting the airwaves.

Kristamatic on August 23, 2012 at 6:22 PM

This is fantastic news. Stay focused boys, just stay the course and you can pull this off. Ignore the distractions, just keep on the message. We gotta put real men back in charge!

scalleywag on August 23, 2012 at 6:22 PM

scalleywag on August 23, 2012 at 6:22 PM

hear hear!

cmsinaz on August 23, 2012 at 6:24 PM

Forget medicare and the economy, it’s all about the womenz.. Look a shiny..

sandee on August 23, 2012 at 6:24 PM

The premium support subsidies are based on a sliding scale which depends on income. It wouldn’t be too hard to adjust it for age as well, which would take care of any fear those in that 40-60 year old age group might have regarding the Romney Ryan plan.

I think people are able to recognize that the Romney/Ryan plan WORKS WITH them, especially when compared to the Obamacare plan that DICTATES TO them.

thatsafactjack on August 23, 2012 at 6:24 PM

…well!…the media better get to work!…they can’t put up with THAT!

KOOLAID2 on August 23, 2012 at 6:25 PM

folks in their 40s have always known medicare and ss need to be reformed….I’ve always assumed ss would not be there for me anyway and have prepared for it….

cmsinaz on August 23, 2012 at 6:12 PM

Exactly..I have been hearing that my entire young life. Hitting 40 soon.
I enjoy being forced into paying for something that I will not receive and is a broken joke.
The can has damn near been kicked so far- dead end. Time for reform and solutions.

Ryans speech here..was impressed. The average person doesn’t know what all this high level polio speech and industry lingo means.
He spoke straight to the seniors on the raping of Medicare funds to fund Obama care and how it will impact them as the Obamacare time line rolls down the track.

Medicare advantage plans (Medicare C) are big down here in Fl. I sell them. They are affordable for the senior on a budget who cannot afford a supplement. They have various choices on that suit their needs. He spoke the truth and their language.
They are listening..media and zero can’t stop the facts and Ryan is exposing them. Truth and facts are a great thing. If we had a media a real one not implanted in the libs rectum..this wouldnt be shocking news.

bazil9 on August 23, 2012 at 6:25 PM

…MSM…but that Akin guy!

KOOLAID2 on August 23, 2012 at 6:26 PM

choices & options*

bazil9 on August 23, 2012 at 6:27 PM

Why would anyone deliberately take an option that meant getting fewer guaranteed benefits? So Medicare still goes bankrupt because the reform is optional rather than system-wide.

AngusMc on August 23, 2012 at 6:18 PM

Because the voucher system allows them to buy programs more suited to their individual needs. Creating competition among insurance companies drives down the cost. I would look at it. Hopefully, it also means my doctor won’t retire or quit practice because he’s getting hosed by Obamacare reduced compensation.

a capella on August 23, 2012 at 6:27 PM

Win the Medicare debate before the conventions.

Open the floodgates of money when Mitt officially is the nominee.

Pound home jobs and the economy for the subsequent 10 weeks.

Endgame.

HarryBalzac on August 23, 2012 at 6:28 PM

AngusMc on August 23, 2012 at 6:18 PM

Several reasons.

1. Fewer and fewer doctors will even accept Medicare as the Feds get stingier and stingier.

2. You get reimbursed up to the cost of the 2nd lowest available policy. Many will choose the cheapest and pocket the difference.

3. Many people will want to take charge of their own decisions and leave Medicare for the lazy and the stupid. You’re a Medicare type, I can tell.

MJBrutus on August 23, 2012 at 6:29 PM

seniors are a solidly Republican demographic generally these days

Which is why the death panels solve several leftist’s problems:

1. when it’s rationed (none for you lady) they die, the programs is saved.

2. They die, less republicans, more younger programmed voters.

3. Republicans/elders have the money:ilot’s of Obama estate
They aren’t stupid-just evil.

Don L on August 23, 2012 at 6:29 PM

bazil9 on August 23, 2012 at 6:25 PM

yepper b9

cmsinaz on August 23, 2012 at 6:29 PM

Never underestimate the power of Joe Biden…

right2bright on August 23, 2012 at 6:30 PM

People under 60 (and especially Ryan’s generation) have been living for a very long time with the idea that they won’t have anything in SS and medicare when they retire , and whatever that “FICA” and “Medicare” are supposed to have been way, way way back a century ago, before the iPhone, they are massive black holes now. So , they will be looking forward to someone finally giving them a chance to take hold of that piece of their paycheck and that is why they are, probably, are not going nuts over Mediscare.

runner on August 23, 2012 at 6:30 PM

KOOLAID2 on August 23, 2012 at 6:26 PM

+1

cmsinaz on August 23, 2012 at 6:30 PM

That fact that it is option is what makes it an unserious reform.
AngusMc on August 23, 2012 at 6:18 PM

.

I’m not sure “unserious” is a real word….. but I do know it is a dumba$$ stupid liberal propagandist “code word” to attack Paul Ryan with it…. and they (liberal liars) do so with the some type of assumed preconception that they are somehow of a “serious” nature. What dishonest phonies these liberals are.

Repeating DWS commie liberal talking points annoys the hell out of me.

FlaMurph on August 23, 2012 at 6:30 PM

bazil9 on August 23, 2012 at 6:25 PM

I agree! Well said.

thatsafactjack on August 23, 2012 at 6:30 PM

Several reasons.

1. Fewer and fewer doctors will even accept Medicare as the Feds get stingier and stingier.

MJBrutus on August 23, 2012 at 6:29 PM

Already happening here.

Another perk.

bazil9 on August 23, 2012 at 6:31 PM

Why would anyone deliberately take an option that meant getting fewer guaranteed benefits? So Medicare still goes bankrupt because the reform is optional rather than system-wide.

AngusMc on August 23, 2012 at 6:18 PM

So if it is going to go bankrupt(your words) seems to me the optional plan is the ONLY Option. And here you were claiming R and R were all out socialists. Which is it?

CW on August 23, 2012 at 6:31 PM

W was right!

dang I miss him

cmsinaz on August 23, 2012 at 6:31 PM

hear hear!

cmsinaz on August 23, 2012 at 6:24 PM

heh. Men who have had real jobs and have held LEADERSHIP roles and know how businesses and the economy work.

scalleywag on August 23, 2012 at 6:32 PM

scalleywag on August 23, 2012 at 6:32 PM

indeed

cmsinaz on August 23, 2012 at 6:33 PM

cmsinaz on August 23, 2012 at 6:31 PM

W gave us Medicare Part D, doubling the size of our problem. Good riddance to him.

MJBrutus on August 23, 2012 at 6:34 PM

Possible Explanations for near seniors in the CNN Wisconsin poll.

First off, the CNN poll was only a poll of 920 registered voters. That may seem a decent sample size, but keep in mind that only a very small fraction of that 920 are going to be “near seniors.”

So immediately we need to keep in mind that near seniors may be a statistical aberration caused by the small sample.

That aside, the age group deemed near seniors would be, about the right age to represent the bulk of the political force thats dominated Wisconsin for the past twenty years. Go slightly older and voters become slightly more conservative socially. Go slightly younger and voters cease being long time components of the states political machinery.

Though honestly, I lean towards political aberration myself. Other numbers I’ve seen out of Wisconsin fails to show any sort of weakness among near-seniors. So, more likely than not you’re scaring yourself for no reason.

WolvenOne on August 23, 2012 at 6:34 PM

W was right!

dang I miss him

cmsinaz on August 23, 2012 at 6:31 PM

Me too.

Terrye on August 23, 2012 at 6:34 PM

I’m 41 and I can remember a HS history teacher telling my class we would have to work till we were 72 and we’d be lucky if we got anything after the Boomers retired. So I think people my age have never thought social security would be their retirement. Everybody I know has pensions, 401ks, IRAs stuff like that to take care of themselves. Whatever we get from Social Security will be great but if we don’t fix it…we get nothing.

PS: I really don’t like being called a “near senior.”

magicbeans on August 23, 2012 at 6:34 PM

That fact that it is option is what makes it an unserious reform.
AngusMc on August 23, 2012 at 6:18 PM

Yeah, it’s never good to give free people options. Never know what they’re going to do and they just aren’t capable of thinking for themselves. Big Brother is always better.

a capella on August 23, 2012 at 6:34 PM

I agree! Well said.

thatsafactjack on August 23, 2012 at 6:30 PM

Thx J. I live it and breathe it daily. Why I may be in need of a straight jacket soon. :)

bazil9 on August 23, 2012 at 6:35 PM

New Fox news poll out…Romney is ahead by one. That might not seem like a big deal, but he was behind about 9 in the last poll..

Terrye on August 23, 2012 at 6:35 PM

Because the voucher system allows them to buy programs more suited to their individual needs.

a capella on August 23, 2012 at 6:27 PM

But look at it from the point of view of the person retiring and now facing that choice.

Choose Medicare: Get guaranteed benefits A thru Z.
Choose Voucher: get a voucher that will buy you some but not all of the above benefits.

Who is going to choose the voucher under those circumstances? Any reform needs to be implemented system wide or we still go off the same fiscal cliff. Imagine if the 1990s welfare reform “must work” requirement had been optional? Would that have been any real reform?

AngusMc on August 23, 2012 at 6:35 PM

I’m not sure “unserious” is a real word…..
FlaMurph on August 23, 2012 at 6:30 PM

Heh no its not a word.

It was funny though when I highlighted it and right-clicked instead of spell check it asked me if I wanted to convert it to English.

CW on August 23, 2012 at 6:36 PM

MJBrutus on August 23, 2012 at 6:34 PM

but he had the courage to focus on SS reform, 7 years later, what would it look like now if it actually passed

cmsinaz on August 23, 2012 at 6:36 PM

Choose Voucher: get a voucher that will buy you some but not all of the above benefits.

AngusMc on August 23, 2012 at 6:35 PM

Your supports?

CW on August 23, 2012 at 6:36 PM

I’m impressed with Romney and Ryan staying on message through all of the distractions.

I’m also impressed with the Romney’s apparent philosophy of “the best defense is a good offense.”

I’m cautiously encouraged that voters are begining to “get it.”

And finally, I’m fancinated that there are an increasing number of cracks in the MSM reporting. While it’s still tiny, I’ve never seen this much recent critism of a Democrat Presidential encombent or nominee.

It has me wondering if the MSM firewall against criticizing a Democrat might be showing initial signs of erosion. Not that I expect the MSM to turn against Obama–that will never happen. But that some reproters are exhibiting at least some signs of mild criticism. And for the MSM that’s like ripping a Democrat to shreds.

Again, Romney and Ryan need to disregard the MSM and just stay on message. It is the message that a majority of Americans want to hear.

BMF on August 23, 2012 at 6:37 PM

New Fox news poll out…Romney is ahead by one. That might not seem like a big deal, but he was behind about 9 in the last poll..

Terrye on August 23, 2012 at 6:35 PM

That’s a huge swing.

gophergirl on August 23, 2012 at 6:37 PM

but the flip side is that near-seniors, from ages 40-60, say, might start panicking about bearing the full brunt of Ryan’s reforms even though they’re nearing retirement. I hope pollsters keep an eye on the age splits when they ask this question, because in their haste to spot a senior stampede, they might be missing a near-senior one.

Ouch! Near Senior? That hurt! :)

I’m 45 and husband is 53 and we probably are in for a big screwing when its our time to collect on SS and Medicare. What gives us courage to push for changes is that we have a 4yr old and a 7yr old and we want them to have a good future.

mrsmwp on August 23, 2012 at 6:37 PM

Yeah, it’s never good to give free people options. Never know what they’re going to do and they just aren’t capable of thinking for themselves. Big Brother is always better.

a capella on August 23, 2012 at 6:34 PM

My preference is to implement the voucher system 100% and end Medicare as we know it. How is that supporting “Big Brother?”

An optional voucher system with less benefits attached to it than the government-run option just pushes people back into the same “Big Brother” government program currently bankrupting us.

AngusMc on August 23, 2012 at 6:38 PM

New Fox news poll out…Romney is ahead by one. That might not seem like a big deal, but he was behind about 9 in the last poll..

Terrye on August 23, 2012 at 6:35 PM

That’s a huge swing.

gophergirl on August 23, 2012 at 6:37 PM

And yet we don’t see that swing elsewhere. I suspect this poll is closer to accurate but come on.

CW on August 23, 2012 at 6:40 PM

It’s the people on the bubble, 50ish, that are wigged out by the proposal, and they have the right to be because the Dems keep screaming it’s a scare tactic meant to feed them to Wall St.

Only way to counter it is provide hard numbers that either

(A) Romney/Ryan will save them or

(B) Shows irrefutable proof that without reform, they are not going to see any Medicare dollars, let alone the status quo.

budfox on August 23, 2012 at 6:16 PM

I’m 54 and I fully expect that I’ll be working till I drop dead, at whatever my age may be, despite the pretty little brochure I get every year from the Social Security Administration telling me how much I’ll be eligible to receive when I’m 67 or 70. Ditto for Medicare — I’m certainly not counting on it being there especially if the Dems are still in charge, over which I’m planning on working as hard as I can to make sure they won’t be. I’d believe R&R before I’d put any credence in anything that comes out of the Dems’ mouths anyway — their mere presence is a scare tactic.

PatriotGal2257 on August 23, 2012 at 6:41 PM

I’m 45 and husband is 53 and we probably are in for a big screwing when its our time to collect on SS and Medicare. What gives us courage to push for changes is that we have a 4yr old and a 7yr old and we want them to have a good future.

mrsmwp on August 23, 2012 at 6:37 PM

I fear for my 3 that are now all 18 and over. Good luck.

CW on August 23, 2012 at 6:41 PM

And yet we don’t see that swing elsewhere. I suspect this poll is closer to accurate but come on.

CW on August 23, 2012 at 6:40 PM

I think this is the same poll that last time said they couldn’t find enough Republicans so they went with the same they had.

A more accurate sampling may account for the huge swing.

gophergirl on August 23, 2012 at 6:44 PM

cmsinaz on August 23, 2012 at 6:36 PM

That’s true. I wish he had been more successful on that front. And in fairness, Ryan himself voted for Part D. It’s a blemish on his record, but we have to accept the fact that he did it.

MJBrutus on August 23, 2012 at 6:45 PM

MJBrutus on August 23, 2012 at 6:45 PM

yup…everyone has something they may disagree on with these candidates but they are our candidates

cmsinaz on August 23, 2012 at 6:49 PM

An optional voucher system with less benefits attached to it than the government-run option just pushes people back into the same “Big Brother” government program currently bankrupting us.

AngusMc on August 23, 2012 at 6:38 PM

Just go back to freakin’ CASH. Or establish unlimited HSAs and give the docs, clinics and hospitals ATM capabilities, with price lists for everything such as annual physicals and the like, and watch the prices drop with all the health professionals competing with one another, similar to the path LASIK surgery has taken. Obviously, government is what brought us HMOs and the biggest Frankenstein of all, Obamacare — get them the hell out of health care entirely.

PatriotGal2257 on August 23, 2012 at 6:50 PM

.

That’s great news for senior citizens — no wonder so many of them who want the program left “as it is” support the GOP — but the flip side is that near-seniors, from ages 40-60, say, might start panicking about bearing the full brunt of Ryan’s reforms even though they’re nearing retirement. I hope pollsters keep an eye on the age splits when they ask this question, because in their haste to spot a senior stampede, they might be missing a near-senior one.

Yeah, but a lot of the people in that demographic don’t think they will get anything..so maybe they actually support Ryan on this because they think he might find a way to see to it that they at least have something.

Terrye on August 23, 2012 at 6:52 PM

I’m 45 and husband is 53 and we probably are in for a big screwing when its our time to collect on SS and Medicare. What gives us courage to push for changes is that we have a 4yr old and a 7yr old and we want them to have a good future.

mrsmwp on August 23, 2012 at 6:37 PM

We are kindred spirits:)

I fear for my 3 that are now all 18 and over. Good luck.

CW on August 23, 2012 at 6:41 PM

CW, I hope that wasn’t meant in a “Good luck with that” kind of way?

MontanaMmmm on August 23, 2012 at 6:56 PM

I’m fancinated that there are an increasing number of cracks in the MSM reporting. While it’s still tiny, I’ve never seen this much recent critism of a Democrat Presidential encombent or nominee.

It has me wondering if the MSM firewall against criticizing a Democrat might be showing initial signs of erosion. Not that I expect the MSM to turn against Obama–that will never happen. But that some reproters are exhibiting at least some signs of mild criticism. And for the MSM that’s like ripping a Democrat to shreds.

BMF on August 23, 2012 at 6:37 PM

You would think at least a few of them would have an inkling about just how bad O’bama’s polling numbers are. Unless, that is, they are so stupid that they simply “report” their over-sampled “polls” totally ignorant of the fact that they are reporting Fake News.

It will be interesting to see how the Democrat Media responds to an O’bama loss.

Del Dolemonte on August 23, 2012 at 7:03 PM

Just go back to freakin’ CASH. Or establish unlimited HSAs and give the docs, clinics and hospitals ATM capabilities, with price lists for everything such as annual physicals and the like, and watch the prices drop with all the health professionals competing with one another, similar to the path LASIK surgery has taken.

PatriotGal2257 on August 23, 2012 at 6:50 PM

If you ever want to completely stump a doctor, ask him/her how much one of his own procedures cost. I have to be price conscious because my insurance requires me to pay 20% of everything out of pocket, so I always ask. Every time the answer has been “I have no idea how much we charge for that.”

AngusMc on August 23, 2012 at 7:06 PM

Romney and Ryan have done a bang-up job thus far of hammering the point that Ryan’s plan wouldn’t touch Medicare for anyone over 55. That’s great news for senior citizens — no wonder so many of them who want the program left “as it is” support the GOP — but the flip side is that near-seniors, from ages 40-60, say, might start panicking about bearing the full brunt of Ryan’s reforms even though they’re nearing retirement. I hope pollsters keep an eye on the age splits when they ask this question, because in their haste to spot a senior stampede, they might be missing a near-senior one.

I’ve been saying since the polling started showing the seniors going with Romney that R&R now need to start selling the benefits of the changes to both the 45-50 age bracket and the youngsters, but especially the former.

Dusty on August 23, 2012 at 7:06 PM

Wait, wait….what about abortion?

rickyricardo on August 23, 2012 at 7:07 PM

This is what awesome smells like.

Chuck Schick on August 23, 2012 at 7:12 PM

…but the flip side is that near-seniors, from ages 40-60, say, might start panicking about bearing the full brunt of Ryan’s reforms…

Folks under 55 will feel no “brunt” from Romney/Ryan reforms as described at present. The traditional Medicare program will still be there as it is at present. There will, however, be a separate option to seek private insurance with a government provided check, allowing the citizen to keep the difference saved if any.

stefano1 on August 23, 2012 at 7:16 PM

That’s true. I wish he had been more successful on that front. And in fairness, Ryan himself voted for Part D. It’s a blemish on his record, but we have to accept the fact that he did it.

MJBrutus on August 23, 2012 at 6:45 PM

I work for a health care agency and I think some people have misconceptions about Part D..in fact the premium support plan is a lot like Part D.

In truth the conservatives wanted health savings accounts and and Medicare Advantage because they were both market oriented kind of programs and policies..but in order to get votes for them they had to have a prescription drug plan. The Democrats wanted one that was all public…they compromised and got one that was public/private. And the Republicans did insist on the donut hole that required they pay more. And the plan is not a give away, they still buy their meds. The interesting thing is that the plan came in 43% under budget because it created competition among drug companies and pharmacies for customers..and that business helped slow down drug prices. That is why there were $4 meds at Wal-Mart and free antibiotics at Mejers.

And to be fair, more conservatives should have supported opening up our markets to cheaper drugs from places like Canada. Pharma got special treatment that other American industries did not get and they ended up backing Obamacare anyway. If seniors had the option of buying cheaper drugs from somewhere else, there would not have been so much pressure to have a drug program. Before that plan was enacted I knew older people who liquidated all they add and went on medicaid just to get the medicine they needed.

So, when we look at someone like Ryan it is a good idea to keep in mind the politics of the times. The Democrats would have put a drug plan in later that was much more costly.

Terrye on August 23, 2012 at 7:16 PM

That’s because Romney/Ryan have ditched any real proposals to seriously reform or reduce Medicare and instead have gone full out leftist on it.

AngusMc on August 23, 2012 at 6:16 PM

BS. Make no mistake, real reform is required but you can’t dismiss something that does make an attempt at reform for something that has no chance of getting through Congress.

What reform plans have the Dems put up? Thought so. STFU.

Happy Nomad on August 23, 2012 at 7:18 PM

..and roll out the white-board a bit more often, many a folks are visually cued and clued….people NEED to “get it”…

hillsoftx on August 23, 2012 at 7:19 PM

BTW- Fox switched to LV and has Romney up 1.

Obama was up 9 just two weeks ago in the Fox RV.

Chuck Schick on August 23, 2012 at 7:20 PM

Fox is D +4 BTW

Chuck Schick on August 23, 2012 at 7:24 PM

New Fox news poll out…Romney is ahead by one. That might not seem like a big deal, but he was behind about 9 in the last poll..

Terrye on August 23, 2012 at 6:35 PM

That’s a huge swing.

gophergirl on August 23, 2012 at 6:37 PM

They switched from a registered voter model to a likely voter model.

Still oversampling democrats a little, but, not by much. They’re assuming D+4, when historical models suggest roughly D+3. Given the enthusiasm gap I’d assume an even smaller disparity, buuut Fox’s party breakdown is very defensible in this case.

Also, given how similar it looks to the Rasmussen and Gallop polls, I think we can assume they’re also roughly assuming D+4.

WolvenOne on August 23, 2012 at 7:34 PM

AngusMc on August 23, 2012 at 7:06 PM

Ha. Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. The docs are completely divorced from their own commerce. A pity, really.

I had an HSA for one year for my hubby and I and the closest thing my insurance plan could give me was a price range for certain procedures, and I don’t remember the ranges being rated depending on where I decided to go — a community hospital or the super-big-everything-under-the-sun university teaching hospital. It was just an average with no mention that I’d probably pay much more than the highest number of the range had I decided to go to a university teaching hospital.

PatriotGal2257 on August 23, 2012 at 7:35 PM

PatriotGal2257 on August 23, 2012 at 6:41 PM

I’m 51 and feel the same way. I live in an expensive state, wasn’t always fiscally prudent, and now have teenagers, so the likelihood of ever being able to retire is really, really tiny. I’ve already warned the kids that I’m expecting them to help support us in our old age.

How anyone can assume that staying with the status quo will turn out well is beyond me, but then I remember that common sense is anything but.

Yeah, but a lot of the people in that demographic don’t think they will get anything..so maybe they actually support Ryan on this because they think he might find a way to see to it that they at least have something.

Terrye on August 23, 2012 at 6:52 PM

Exactly. Maybe Ryan’s plan, especially as it gets butchered by Congress, won’t save SS/MC, and I won’t see anything in 16-19 years. But if we don’t do anything I KNOW I won’t. Since the Dems refuse to even consider trying to solve the problem, my choices are vote R/R and trying something which on paper has a chance, or voting Ø and rushing head long for the cliff edge. I really don’t think it’s a difficult choice.

LibraryGryffon on August 23, 2012 at 7:38 PM

I had an HSA for one year

HSAs are great ideas. Unfortunately, with my current employer I am only eligible for an FSA, which I hate using. At the end of the year my employer gets to keep any money I paid into it but did not use.

AngusMc on August 23, 2012 at 7:44 PM

Wait, wait….what about abortion?

rickyricardo on August 23, 2012 at 7:07 PM

…have to wait for Sandy Fluke at the DNC gathering!
She may need one after meeting BJ…if she doesn’t have a ready supply of rubbers!

KOOLAID2 on August 23, 2012 at 8:04 PM

LibraryGryffon on August 23, 2012 at 7:38 PM

While we don’t have any kids, my hubby is self-employed, so we’ll probably both be working until we drop dead. What has always frosted the both of us — me when I first found out about it, my hubby when he went out on his own — is that he actually pays 13% Social Security on anything he earns, 6.5% for him as an employee and the other 6.5% for him as employer. That’s rich — he’s considered both employer and employee according to the SSA. Tell me again about one of the least noticed and long-standing “costs” of going into business for yourself beside all the other voluminous state, federal and municipal regulations a person has to put up with and it’s a major wonder why anyone starts a business at all.

PatriotGal2257 on August 23, 2012 at 8:05 PM

HSAs are great ideas. Unfortunately, with my current employer I am only eligible for an FSA, which I hate using. At the end of the year my employer gets to keep any money I paid into it but did not use.

AngusMc on August 23, 2012 at 7:44 PM

I think they’re great ideas as well, although I’ve gone back to the PPO option of my employer’s health care plan. I signed up for the HSA the first year it became available, even though my employer was not one of the ones who kicked in seed money initially, as some companies in my area did. And everything was OK until my hubby developed a rather serious condition that same year which landed him in the hospital for a week and lifelong maintenance meds to go with it. So we had a rather large hospital bill to pay off — I guess we wouldn’t have had as much to pay had we had the PPO during that time. But since he has to get regular checkups and tests, it probably makes more sense now to have the PPO. It’s appallingly obvious to the both of us, though, how some docs order tests right and left — can’t help thinking it’s more of a CYA measure and “the insurance will cover it” attitude than a genuine concern for a patient’s health.

My company has always offered an FSA. I’ve never bothered signing up for one for precisely the reason you mention. What I do have are a couple credit union accounts where I save a portion of my paycheck and use that when it’s time for me to get new glasses every couple years. OTC meds and the like come out of my pocket.

PatriotGal2257 on August 23, 2012 at 8:26 PM

Saw 2016 the other day, lots of seniors in the theater. Everyone clapped at the end.

newportmike on August 23, 2012 at 8:47 PM

I’d love to have an HSA, but since my husband is retired military and we are covered (sort-of) by Tricare, I can’t by law. The IRS will only allow you to have an HSA if you only have health insurance with a high deductible. Why should they care?

LibraryGryffon on August 23, 2012 at 9:01 PM

They’re not single-issue voters, as entitlement politics tends to presume; they’re socially conservative too, and the Democrats have been drifting away from them on that for years.

You Hotair posters still don’t get it. While the above sentence is true, it is grossly incomplete. We are not as selfish as you supose. We care about our country and we care about our progeny, of which, as a class, we have more of than any other demographic.

Some of us have lived through the New Deal. We wouldn’t wish that on to any more Americans.

burt on August 23, 2012 at 9:43 PM

I’d love to have an HSA, but since my husband is retired military and we are covered (sort-of) by Tricare, I can’t by law. The IRS will only allow you to have an HSA if you only have health insurance with a high deductible. Why should they care?

LibraryGryffon on August 23, 2012 at 9:01 PM

They shouldn’t care one whit. The fact that you are not permitted by law and the IRS says to me that the entire health care system as it exists now in the U.S. should be scrapped down to the bare bones, but not for the same reason the commies want — a single payer system that they are salivating to control.

This article says it much better than I ever could.

PatriotGal2257 on August 23, 2012 at 9:50 PM

PatriotGal2257 on August 23, 2012 at 9:50 PM

Interesting article. My mother was going on once about how you couldn’t survive without regular modern insurance, but when I asked her about what sort of insurance they had when I was little, she thought and then realized that all they ever had was major medical. They paid for all our pediatrician and optometrist visits out of pocket. They weren’t rich (daddy was a doctoral student, and then an associate professor) but they never had trouble getting us the health care we needed.

If you look at your doctor’s office, there are tons of staff needed for the government and insurance mandated paperwork, which doesn’t contribute to our health at all. My doctor’s practice has two doctors but when I go there on days when there is only one working, there are still three or four front office staff. How much do they have to make on each patient visit to pay all those salaries?

And on a related note, several health insurance companies in CT have asked for rate increases, some of them significant.
Aetna – 7.5% on AARP policies
Anthem – 13.8% on small group (1-50 employee) policies
The Aetna request specifically states that it is because of the ACA mandates.

LibraryGryffon on August 23, 2012 at 11:09 PM

LibraryGryffon on August 23, 2012 at 11:09 PM

My mom’s younger sister, and my favorite aunt, was chronically ill with kidney problems most of her adult life, so most of my childhood, teen and young adult years were spent watching her being shuttled in and out of practically every hospital in our area of western PA for various periods of time, sometimes weeks, sometimes months. She and my uncle weren’t rich either — my uncle was a retail store manager, and my aunt was a hairstylist, when she was strong enough to work, which was rare. My mom (who was widowed) and I helped any way we could. The thing I remember most was that even with the extensive hospital stays and numerous prescriptions, there was never a time where my aunt didn’t get the care she needed. Her pharmacists were family friends and it was not unusual for one of her doctors to check up on her after a particularly arduous hospital stay. And my aunt and uncle paid their own freight on all of this, no matter how long it took. I seem to remember she was very reluctant to go on Medicare, even though she qualified somewhat earlier due to her illnesses.

This was in the 60s and 70s, and although it must have been difficult to deal with the administrative aspects of having a family member in the hospital, I look back on it and it seems to me that it was much simpler to get care then than it is now.

You’re absolutely right about all the office staff at most doctor’s offices now. We were lucky at my company — our health insurance rates stayed the same as last year. But next year, well, we’ll see. Currently, we have dueling health insurers — Highmark BCBS and the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center’s emerging health insurance plan. UPMC has been swallowing up virtually all the little community hospitals in our area for years, and now wants to be the only health insurance plan around.

PatriotGal2257 on August 23, 2012 at 11:53 PM