Video: “Legitimate” rape? Update: Steelman blasts Akin

posted at 8:41 am on August 20, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

Until yesterday, Todd Akin had a comfortable polling lead in Missouri over incumbent Senator Claire McCaskill in what had been the most vulnerable seat for Democrats this cycle.  Suddenly, one has to ask whether Akin has a, er, legitimate chance of beating McCaskill, or even a legitimate chance of avoiding a Torricelli maneuver:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdisTOKom5I&feature=player_embedded

In the clip, Charles Jaco, of St. Louis Fox affiliate KTVI’s “Jaco Report,” asks Akin whether he thinks abortions ought to permissible in a situation where a woman is raped. While explaining his position, Akin claimed that pregnancy only rarely results from “legitimate rape.”

“Well you know, people always want to make it as one of those things where how do you slice this particularly tough, sort of ethical question,” he replied. “It seems to me first of all, from what I understand from doctors — that’s really rare. If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down. But, let’s assume that maybe that didn’t work, or something. I think there should be some punishment, but the punishment ought to be on the rapist and not attacking the child.”

Good grief.  First, pregnancy from rape isn’t all that uncommon, as Twitchy discovered with just a little research; it’s around 5%.  At least one researcher has found that conception rates for rape actually exceeds that of single instances of consensual sex. Second, what in Akin’s mind constitutes legitimate rape?  Was he trying to distinguish between forcible rape and statutory rape?  If so, that’s a pretty fine distinction, and one that’s really nonsensical even in the argument Akin was trying to make.  And if he wanted to suggest that some women would lie about being raped in order to secure an abortion, then he’s really setting up an argument that any woman who is pregnant couldn’t really have been raped … which as noted above is simply not the case.

Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan distanced themselves from Akin’s argument at light speed:

A spokeswoman for Mitt Romney wrote late Sunday that the presumptive GOP presidential nominee and his running mate, U.S. Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin, did not share Rep. Todd Akin’s sentiments on rape.

“Governor Romney and Congressman Ryan disagree with Mr. Akin’s statement, and a Romney-Ryan administration would not oppose abortion in instances of rape,” Romney campaign spokeswoman Amanda Henneberg wrote.

Even Akin himself repudiated his earlier remarks:

“As a member of Congress, I believe that working to protect the most vulnerable in our society is one of my most important responsibilities, and that includes protecting both the unborn and victims of sexual assault.  In reviewing my off-the-cuff remarks, it’s clear that I misspoke in this interview and it does not reflect the deep empathy I hold for the thousands of women who are raped and abused every year.  Those who perpetrate these crimes are the lowest of the low in our society and their victims will have no stronger advocate in the Senate to help ensure they have the justice they deserve.

“I recognize that abortion, and particularly in the case of rape, is a very emotionally charged issue.  But I believe deeply in the protection of all life and I do not believe that harming another innocent victim is the right course of action. I also recognize that there are those who, like my opponent, support abortion and I understand I may not have their support in this election.

“But I also believe that this election is about a wide-range of very important issues, starting with the economy and the type of country we will be leaving our children and grandchildren.  We’ve had 42 straight months of unacceptably high unemployment, trillion dollar deficits, and Democratic leaders in Washington who are focused on growing government, instead of jobs.  That is my primary focus in this campaign and while there are those who want to distract from that, knowing they cannot defend the Democrats’ failed economic record of the last four years, that will continue to be my focus in the months ahead.”

“Those who want to distract from that” got a big boost from Akin himself.

Can Republicans replace Akin, if they so choose?  Apparently they can — but the deadline is tomorrow.  Of course, deadlines didn’t matter when Robert Torricelli became a political pariah in New Jersey, but there are a couple of differences.  First, it involved actual corruption, not a case of foot-in-mouth disease, and second, Torricelli was a Democrat.  If Republicans want Akin off the ticket, they’d have to act quickly, which means it won’t happen at all.

That means that Missouri will probably see a lot of debate over “legitimate,” and Republicans had better hope that Akin can legitimately change the subject soon.

Update: Chuck Todd hints that there may be more time than we think if Akin withdraws:

Well, the whole thing’s getting pretty complicated now, isn’t it?

Update II: Sarah Steelman, one of two challengers against Akin in the primary and Sarah Palin’s endorsed choice, blasted Akin this morning on Twitter:

On the other hand, poll analyst Sean Trende reminds us that politicians who say stupid things often don’t pay as much of a price as we’d think:

I’m not sure that this is a comforting thought.

Update III: Even less comforting — Clayton Williams actually lost that election in 1990 to Ann Richards.


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Yes…abortion should always be the last resort. I would hope any victim of rape that became pregnant would seek counseling before making that ultimate decision killing her baby.

lynncgb on August 20, 2012 at 11:55 AM

Thought I’d help out by replacing your code words with their actual meaning.

RationalIcthus on August 20, 2012 at 11:58 AM

Bishop on August 20, 2012 at 11:56 AM

jinx

hawkdriver on August 20, 2012 at 11:58 AM

Let me amend my last comment.

“Unless you are a Democrat.”

RockyJ. on August 20, 2012 at 11:59 AM

Buy Danish on August 20, 2012 at 11:52 AM

It’s high on the stupid meter. So high, in fact, that it’s hard for me to imagine it is what he meant. Outrage, even if temporary, will have to act as an insurance policy because unless he decides to go on his own, I doubt that the party will make the decision quickly enough to matter.

Cindy Munford on August 20, 2012 at 11:59 AM

You don’t say stupid stuff like this about women and get away with it.

It’s just that simple.
Women are vindictive and they NEVER forget..

They DO NOT think like guys…

His comment was about as dumb as it gets.. He’s done.

RockyJ. on August 20, 2012 at 11:58 AM

I agree. We shouldn’t say anything offensive about women, for sure.

RationalIcthus on August 20, 2012 at 11:59 AM

How come after all these years, Republicans can’t get their talking points down about abortion. Wish they would just have a standard answer and move on to the next issue. You know media people always try to trip someone up about this issue.

Hummer53 on August 20, 2012 at 12:01 PM

So when you force a woman to have a child from rape, and then the child’s father wants to meet with said child, say at the prison or after he gets out, who gets the fun job of explaining to the child how they were conceived and why their dad is in prison?

Zekecorlain on August 20, 2012 at 11:51 AM

I fully support eliminating parental rights for perpetrators of rape. It sure beats killing their victims.

RationalIcthus on August 20, 2012 at 12:01 PM

I agree. We shouldn’t say anything offensive about women, for sure.

RationalIcthus on August 20, 2012 at 11:59 AM

Well I’ll call a douche bag a douche bag when deserved but Akins statement was pure stupidity..

RockyJ. on August 20, 2012 at 12:01 PM

It doesn’t excuse the act of ending the life.

That was his point.

Bluray on August 20, 2012 at 11:55 AM

I only advocate for putting the health of the victim first. Whether it be psychological or physical. I happen to believe abortion is wrong and it isn’t something I believe I could ever bring myself to do. But what if I was raped? Could I say the same thing…I don’t know. I just wouldn’t want someone else to tell me it wasn’t an option.

lynncgb on August 20, 2012 at 12:03 PM

Why do Republicans answer questions about abortions? Demorats never get asked and if they do never answer abortions questions. Can we not encourage some sort of msm discipline amongst our candidates? I will bet a $1000 he will not step down. Not one politician has ever put country/state/honor first over self interest.

inspectorudy on August 20, 2012 at 12:06 PM

Todd Akin, step down now. For the good of the party.

JohnGalt23 on August 20, 2012 at 10:02 AM

I doubt he’s going to.
So then what’s your answer?

Badger40 on August 20, 2012 at 10:21 AM

There is only one answer. He will lose the election. Since it is inevitable, just relax and enjoy it … :-)

Gelsomina on August 20, 2012 at 12:06 PM

There is only one answer. He will lose the election. Since it is inevitable, just relax and enjoy it … :-)

Oof.

Well-played, but ugh.

Esoteric on August 20, 2012 at 12:07 PM

How come after all these years, Republicans can’t get their talking points down about abortion. Wish they would just have a standard answer and move on to the next issue. You know media people always try to trip someone up about this issue.

Hummer53 on August 20, 2012 at 12:01 PM

The GOP is in the midst of conceding the point. They would not be uncomfortable telling the press they are more pro-choice than pro-life, it’s pro-life Republicans they’re tip-toeing around.

But you’re right, they should make their position clear. That way, people thinking they’re throwing their support begin a party that actually supports the rights of the unborn, could move on to an organization that really does.

hawkdriver on August 20, 2012 at 12:07 PM

I think he should be allowed to clarify because the way I see it, he simply didn’t express it well at all.

I think he meant to say legitimate ‘claims of’ rape.

There are a lot of claims of rape that are not rape but vindictive claims in order to get back at someone.

He should definitely re-state his position if it was simply a poorly worded stumble.

And all of you so called conservatives – grow a spine and stop trying to throw everyone overboard when they stumble a little.

Sporty1946 on August 20, 2012 at 12:08 PM

I don’t know what you were thinking defines “uncommon”, but 5% seems pretty uncommon to me.

[The Rogue Tomato on August 20, 2012 at 11:49 AM]

It was really little research, if you ask me. Googling something to pull up an abstract of a study done in 1996 (which is by my definition still in The Pre-factchecked Era) using ‘models’ (re:GIGO) that has a highlight with the number 5% in it and other numbers which give the impression something is widely out of whack with other real numbers, is not even what I call “research”.

Dusty on August 20, 2012 at 12:08 PM

What really needs to be done here is to define a human life at the Constitutional level with an amendment.

Badger40 on August 20, 2012 at 11:28 AM

So rights, apparently, do come from government.

Painful.

lorien1973 on August 20, 2012 at 11:31 AM

Well what do YOU recommend? Just look what the Founders against slavery (INCLUDING JEFFERSON) had to compromise over that 3/5ths persons crap (or whatever the fraction was).
That was done so the slave states couldn’t get MORE representation in Congress to push their agenda, but it’s being touted as the opposite in history.
Sometimes you HAVE to do these things bcs look at how people kibbitz on definitions of things.
I personally think life is precious even if my life were in danger of having a baby.
But a line has to be drawn somewhere.
And since the unborn cannot defend themselves, somebody HAS to draw a line somewhere.
IDK what other way to do it.

Badger40 on August 20, 2012 at 12:09 PM

Don’t blame me, I voted for Sarah Steelman.

Wolftech on August 20, 2012 at 12:10 PM

And they should. No one can possibly understand the type of trauma a rape victim experiences. For anyone to pile on additional grief/guilt if a woman wants an abortion in that situation is despicable. I just love all those that are going to decide what is best for everyone else. You sound like Democrats.

lynncgb on August 20, 2012 at 10:05 AM

Rapists should get the death penalty.

As for the rest of your comment, tell it to the aborted baby.

JellyToast on August 20, 2012 at 12:10 PM

Republicans and conservative politicians are morons.

But primary voters who voted for Akin are gross morons.

technopeasant on August 20, 2012 at 12:11 PM

How come after all these years, Republicans can’t get their talking points down about abortion. Wish they would just have a standard answer and move on to the next issue. You know media people always try to trip someone up about this issue.

Hummer53 on August 20, 2012 at 12:01 PM

Because many of them have staff that are ambivalent about the issue. It is a situation where the official is more conservative on social issues than the person in charge of writing back constituents on moral issues.

Because of this, the issue gets avoided until it gets sprung on them and then you get an answer like Akin’s because he’s probably never had anyone in his office flush out the arguments for and against to him.

Having a standard answer only works if the Party can agree on what should be done about it, and that is the issue. The social liberals want it one way and the socons want it the other way. You can’t compromise because there is nothing to compromise on between both groups.

It is exactly like the slavery issue that the Republican Party started over. The party decided slavery must end period, and that the time for compromise like in 1820 was over.

Bluray on August 20, 2012 at 12:12 PM

What really needs to be done here is to define a human life at the Constitutional level with an amendment.

Badger40 on August 20, 2012 at 11:28 AM

So rights, apparently, do come from government.

Painful.

lorien1973 on August 20, 2012 at 11:31 AM

Rights were taken away by the government in the form of Roe v. Wade. We can root for another SCOTUS decision to fix their mistake, but the only way we non-SC-judges can have a role in the process is to push our reps/Senators to address it in a Constitutional Amendment. Other than a Constitutional amendment, what other way is there to overturn a wrongly decided Supreme Court decision?

cptacek on August 20, 2012 at 12:12 PM

This is what you get when Republicans hire 65 year old “freshmen” Senators.
Boy did Missouri dems know what they were doing or what when they cross over voted this one?
Well played.

Marcus on August 20, 2012 at 12:13 PM

Because Pro-Choicers never make up facts…

like claiming a fetus only magically becomes a baby when it successfully implants.

Bluray on August 20, 2012 at 11:52 AM

You distort what the pro-choice movement says. I’m not sure if it is because you are ignorant of the pro-choice argument or if you are intellectually lazy and prefer straw man arguments. I suspect it is the later, but if not you should do some research and try to argue abortion rationally. Honest, rational arguments may not always win, but you will feel better about yourself.

thuja on August 20, 2012 at 12:14 PM

lynncgb on August 20, 2012 at 11:55 AM

Thought I’d help out by replacing your code words with their actual meaning.

RationalIcthus on August 20, 2012 at 11:58 AM

If you must…fine.

Look, I love all you guys…we’re aligned on just about every other conservative position, but on this one we’re going to have to part.

lynncgb on August 20, 2012 at 12:14 PM

It’s high on the stupid meter. So high, in fact, that it’s hard for me to imagine it is what he meant. Outrage, even if temporary, will have to act as an insurance policy because unless he decides to go on his own, I doubt that the party will make the decision quickly enough to matter.
Cindy Munford on August 20, 2012 at 11:59 AM

It’s not just the idiotic “legitimate rape” comment; it’s that he believes women should be prevented by law from having an abortion if they are raped. This position is not good for the GOP and is not a majority view. It should be left to the discretion of individuals who are raped to make decision, not forced on them by lawmakers. Not clear what Akin’s position on “Morning After” pill is. Catholics claim it’s an “abortifacient” but that shouldn’t preclude non-Catholics from having it available. Obviously it is far preferable to an abortion abortion. But then we get to the Catholic hospital problem…

Buy Danish on August 20, 2012 at 12:14 PM

So what can Republicans realistically do to get him to step aside?

The only way I see Akin stepping down is if he sees it’s a done deal that he’s going to lose. Can the RNC promise to cut off all coordination and funding resources?

For the record, Republicans are actually REALLY selfish about this sort of thing, they rarely if ever step down for the good of the country.

SoCon idiocy might be what keeps ObamaCare in place if we lose this Senate seat. It’s not enough the moron wing nominated Christine O’Donnell, Ken Buck, Sharon Angle, etc. I honestly am starting to think the Santorum wing of the Party is the biggest enabler of socialism.

BradTank on August 20, 2012 at 12:14 PM

I think he should be allowed to clarify because the way I see it, he simply didn’t express it well at all.

I think he meant to say legitimate ‘claims of’ rape.

There are a lot of claims of rape that are not rape but vindictive claims in order to get back at someone.

He should definitely re-state his position if it was simply a poorly worded stumble.

And all of you so called conservatives – grow a spine and stop trying to throw everyone overboard when they stumble a little.

Sporty1946 on August 20, 2012 at 12:08 PM

I think even DEMOCRATS should be given this opportunity, until they do it so often, like Obama & Biden, that they are 100% no longer credible.
I just can’t see the hubbub over this.
People are really getting emotional, as they always seem to do when it comes to offending women & their bodies.
The Progressive Liberals have trained the populace really well in setting the narrative over the last many decades.

Badger40 on August 20, 2012 at 12:14 PM

He should have just said, “Abortion ends a human life, and I do not believe rape justifies taking an innocent human life” and then stopped talking. It would not have been an issue — lots of people feel this way.

stefanite on August 20, 2012 at 12:15 PM

Considering that rape victims who actually report it, and end up taken to the hospital for a rape kit, are ALSO offered the after-pills.
Seems that in itself would encourage reportings of ‘legitimate (actual, forcible) rapes’ , but that would be in a sane world.
So, nevermind.

pambi on August 20, 2012 at 12:16 PM

People getting caught up in the *abortion* part of his answer have it exactly backward (which is what his “clarification” indicated). It is fine that he is against abortion even in cases of rape — that’s not the problem here. The main problem is that he is so ignorant on human physiology that he believes a woman’s body has some kind of mechanism to “shut down” when being raped to prevent pregnancy. (and that’s not even mentioning the implication he makes that a woman who ends up pregnant wasn’t “really raped.”).

That kind of stupid doesn’t deserve to hold public office.

Also, I don’t know who that Sean Trende is, but I lived in Dallas during the Clayton Williams v. Ann Richards race in 1990 — that “rape joke” of his cost him the election, Williams was leading in the polls & was easily predicted to win before he made that “joke” to reporters at his ranch. The outrage & turnaround was HUGE.

Dark Star on August 20, 2012 at 12:16 PM

Rapists should get the death penalty.

As for the rest of your comment, tell it to the aborted baby.

JellyToast on August 20, 2012 at 12:10 PM

Please read my 12:14 post.

lynncgb on August 20, 2012 at 12:17 PM

You distort what the pro-choice movement says. I’m not sure if it is because you are ignorant of the pro-choice argument or if you are intellectually lazy and prefer straw man arguments. I suspect it is the later, but if not you should do some research and try to argue abortion rationally. Honest, rational arguments may not always win, but you will feel better about yourself.

thuja on August 20, 2012 at 12:14 PM

That is what the Pro-Choice movement says.

They deny that life BEGINS at conception.

Bluray on August 20, 2012 at 12:17 PM

Senator Ron Johnson calls on Todd Akin to drop out of the race: “Todd Akin’s statements are reprehensible and inexcusable. He should step aside today for the good of the nation.”

Esoteric on August 20, 2012 at 12:17 PM

Just an observation:

In falling all over ourselves to condemn Akin, aren’t we just playing into the disgusting game of Political Correctness?

Are we (Conservatives) not supposed the group who supports free speech (whether it is enlightened, dumb, pitch-perfect, or poorly worded)?

He seems to have been trying to espouse the only fully consistent position someone can have about Abortion… that it is not good in any circumstance.

So, is the problem with that position… or with the way he worded it?

RightWay79 on August 20, 2012 at 12:17 PM

The GOP is in the midst of conceding the point. They would not be uncomfortable telling the press they are more pro-choice than pro-life, it’s pro-life Republicans they’re tip-toeing around.

But you’re right, they should make their position clear. That way, people thinking they’re throwing their support begin a party that actually supports the rights of the unborn, could move on to an organization that really does.

hawkdriver on August 20, 2012 at 12:07 PM

I’m conceding the point. I’m conceding something. Women that think their reproductive system works like a Coke machine, immune from shock or trauma — put in a sperm, take out a baby; Michelle Malkin and Ed Morrisey posting links to a study the math of which requires more rapes than even occurred to work out; more concern trolls than I’ve ever seen on Hot Air … and some guy yanked up a yard arm for saying he still believes what he’s always believed and already talked about.

Nothing left undone but the cussing. I’ll skip it.

Axe on August 20, 2012 at 12:19 PM

I honestly am starting to think the Santorum wing of the Party is the biggest enabler of socialism.

BradTank on August 20, 2012 at 12:14 PM

Socialistic tendencies have a place in LOCAL govt, at the CONSENT of the governed.
Not the Federal level.
I’m not saying I agree with socialism.
But this is why each state is sovereign, to let the people govern themselves on many things.
What we all need to understand is that we should stop trying to use Congress to make the Federal Govt do these types of things & demand it only work within its enumerated powers.
State legislative races should talk about these types of things.
National races should not.
IMO.

Badger40 on August 20, 2012 at 12:19 PM

I wish it were. Emotional and mental disorders can become completely debilitating…and shouldn’t be casually dismissed. I have seen the suffering that can result from them.

lynncgb on August 20, 2012 at 11:50 AM

Though they’re not in the same league …my dad was an emotional molester. He never raped me but he was all hands. He did all sort of inappropriate to/around his daughter. My parents threw me put of the house after I converted to Christianity but let the then toddler Spawn stay. I used to spend weekends there and when my father thought that I was asleep he’d stand in the bedroom doorway and leer. I’d complain to my mother who would say that it was my fault because I didn’t dress appropriately when I was sleeping.
Around that time my period was VERY late and I was certain it was because he had finally gotten around to ‘doing the deed’ when I was sleeping.I felt worthless because the only person who was interested in hitting on me…was my dad.
Was my dad causing me emotional and mental distress? You betcha. As I age I’ve started to look like my father’s daughter-so I see him every time I look in the mirror-but I’ve moved on. I didn’t deserve it. It wasn’t my fault. While there are some huge scars-life’s too short to life as a victim.

MY point is telling you this-is that people like me are SURVIVORS. We are STRONG. God is good, kind, and merciful.
Rape victims who find themselves pregnant and do the right thing are the ULTIMATE strong women. They are survivors-not victims, despite what you believe!

annoyinglittletwerp on August 20, 2012 at 12:19 PM

How come after all these years, Republicans can’t get their talking points down about abortion. Wish they would just have a standard answer and move on to the next issue. You know media people always try to trip someone up about this issue.

Hummer53 on August 20, 2012 at 12:01 PM

The problem with Akin is that he belongs to the part of the Pro-life movement that just makes stuff up. With it being so easy to fact-check on the Internet these days, it makes no sense to claim that women have some magic form of contraception when raped. Yet, Akin did. You can’t get talking points down when you are engaged in deception, even if it is partly self-deception.

thuja on August 20, 2012 at 12:19 PM

SoCon idiocy might be what keeps ObamaCare in place if we lose this Senate seat. It’s not enough the moron wing nominated Christine O’Donnell, Ken Buck, Sharon Angle, etc. I honestly am starting to think the Santorum wing of the Party is the biggest enabler of socialism.

BradTank on August 20, 2012 at 12:14 PM

Christine O’Donnell did not win the primary because she was pro-life, she won the primary because a bunch of people decided Castle was unacceptable due to his voting record on other issues.

Ken Buck did not win because he was Pro-Life, he won because his opponent was seen as not conservative enough on other issues.

Sharon Angle did not win the primary because she was Pro-Life, she won because a bunch of ficons liked her better than Tarkanian and Sue Lowden, who were both also Pro-Life.

Santorum was one of the few candidates to directly call out Romney for his fiscal sins. The only candidate in the primary who was anywhere close to being Pro-Choice was Huntsman.

Bluray on August 20, 2012 at 12:21 PM

Update III: Even less comforting — Clayton Williams actually lost that election in 1990 to Ann Richards.

That’s what the ~ meant.

~ = about/nearly/close to

lorien1973 on August 20, 2012 at 12:21 PM

I honestly am starting to think the Santorum wing of the Party is the biggest enabler of socialism.

BradTank on August 20, 2012 at 12:14 PM

You would be right. They just want government in your life for totally different reasons.

lorien1973 on August 20, 2012 at 12:22 PM

The problem with Akin is that he belongs to the part of the Pro-life movement that just makes stuff up. With it being so easy to fact-check on the Internet these days, it makes no sense to claim that women have some magic form of contraception when raped. Yet, Akin did. You can’t get talking points down when you are engaged in deception, even if it is partly self-deception.

thuja on August 20, 2012 at 12:19 PM

Life begins at conception. That is a scientifically observable fact.

Bluray on August 20, 2012 at 12:22 PM

hawkdriver on August 20, 2012 at 11:51 AM

When you find yourself in a hole, HD, stop digging.

Of course it happened. It does in all wars.

Thank you for admitting that Dr Paul stated a fact.

It was rare and it certianly doesn’t define the war like you’d like it to in order to condemn it wholecloth.

That is not a fact. Rare is a relative value. For the Iraqis it happened to, it was much too common, I am sure.

How it defines the war is not a fact. To the people who decided to to become suicide bombers as a result, it certainly defined it for them, in perfectly crystalline terms, I would imagine.

Paul’s assertion in his Imagine rant was that was the norm.

Yeah. This one’s kind of important. That’s why I put it in bold.

From the text of the original speech…

Imagine that every now and then they made mistakes or acted on bad information and accidentally killed or terrorized innocent Americans

Apparently, in HD world, “every now and then” equates to “the norm”.

Explains a lot, really.

Your reply, if you have one…?

Does Ron Paul’s newsletters define him to you, or do you deny there weren’t racist remarks contained in them?

Do you have videotape of Ron Paul saying those things? Because I sure as hell have videotape of Todd Akin engaging in idiocy.

Videotape goes a long way, in case you haven’t figured that out yet.

We had a fraticide with the Kurds early in the Iraq War and they’re still our best ally in the region.

Better than Israel? Because I could have sworn you’ve said the same thing about Israel in the past.

Again, it was a war and your metric of zero mistakes is a hard one to live up to.

No one, neither Dr Paul or myself, expects the US Army or any armed forces, to bat 1.000. But what you are asking us to do is ignore that the mistakes they make affect the occupied nations in a way that we should consider before going in… something we clearly didn’t do in Iraq.

Have you forgotten a Medevac lost in combat trying to get an Iraqi girl to the hospital? Soldiers lost during the last three years due to the ROE being so restrictive they can’t even return fire. All designed to protect civilians at the cost of our own solders.

If the Chinese army came here and started kicking in doors, any acts of gallantry on their part would quickly be forgotten by people like me, willing to set bombs against a foreign invader.

The evil armies do live long after their occupation; the good interred with their bones. That’s not a fact… it’s a bastardization of The Bard. But it might as well be a fact.

Here is the fact. You ignore a multitude of very gallant behavior on the part of our US Forces overseas and concentrate on a very few instances that occur in every conflict

What I concentrate on is not the topic of Dr Paul’s speech. What his speech was about was the reaction of an occupied people against perceived transgressions, and that such a reaction should be perfectly predictable to anyone who doesn’t have their head up Paul Wolfowitz’ arse.

Or did you really think an American army, occupying an Arab country, wouldn’t have people setting bombs against it? Because it really didn’t come as a surprise to some of us.

As to the topic, many people thought Ron Paul’s own words on many occasions were enough to compel him to step down. I thought so. But you still give a spirited defense of every word uttered.

What am I missing? Is it so unforgivable because you’re pro-choice to begin with?

hawkdriver on August 20, 2012 at 11:51 AM

Nothing Ron Paul has said has been so clearly anti-factual as what Todd Akin said. To what extent we could predict Iraqi behavior in the wake of an invasion, or to what extent our operations were flummoxed by bad intel and poor leadership, or the costs of Iraqi occupation vs the benefits of possibly democratizing the ME, are all legitimate (there’s that word again) topics for debate.

As is whether abortion on demand should be provided by rape victims.

What is not is if raped women’s bodies can somehow avoid getting pregnant. It’s nonsense. It’s unbelievable nonsense. It’s the most insensitive drivel I’ve heard coming from a candidate for public office (on the GOP side, at least), much less a man running in the second spot on a ticket in a mighty important state.

He

Has Got

To GO!!!

JohnGalt23 on August 20, 2012 at 12:22 PM

BTW, a woman claiming she was raped isn’t proof that she was raped.

Anyway, Akin admits he misspoke, but that just isn’t good enough. Let’s join with the Democrats and MSM, and pile on him also, so we can make sure Democrats keep the senate. We need to be fair, huh.

Karmi on August 20, 2012 at 12:23 PM

Senator Ron Johnson calls on Todd Akin to drop out of the race: “Todd Akin’s statements are reprehensible and inexcusable. He should step aside today for the good of the nation.”

Esoteric on August 20, 2012 at 12:17 PM

He’ll be gone tomorrow, I suspect. He has to realize that money will dry up and that he’ll be isolated going forward. Doesn’t matter what the polls say now…they will change, and he won’t be in a good position to arrest their fall.

changer1701 on August 20, 2012 at 12:23 PM

So, is the problem with that position… or with the way he worded it?

RightWay79 on August 20, 2012 at 12:17 PM

I’ve already made this argument.
There is a militia of folks who clearly have no problem hanging someone on the latter part of your statement.
I personally, do.
And of course, since evidently this is the 1st time it’s come to peoples’ attention as to the former part of your statement, they are being reactionary when they SHOULD have been saying something when he was running in the primary.
Clearly, the way the primary was run &/or the people running is the problem.
This is the exactly same conundrum we have with Romney.
Excoriate Romney now so people stay home & we WILL have Obama.
And I do not find that acceptable.
Question is, will the good voters of MO just dump this guy & let the clearer worse choice win again?
I guess we’ll have to wait & see.
Let Missourians decide their fate.

Badger40 on August 20, 2012 at 12:24 PM

Epic fumble.

FlatFoot on August 20, 2012 at 12:25 PM

It’s not just the idiotic “legitimate rape” comment; it’s that he believes women should be prevented by law from having an abortion if they are raped. This position is not good for the GOP and is not a majority view. It should be left to the discretion of individuals who are raped to make decision, not forced on them by lawmakers. Not clear what Akin’s position on “Morning After” pill is. Catholics claim it’s an “abortifacient” but that shouldn’t preclude non-Catholics from having it available. Obviously it is far preferable to an abortion abortion. But then we get to the Catholic hospital problem…

Buy Danish on August 20, 2012 at 12:14 PM

Oh, so there is abortion-abortion, and just abortion? Just abortion is ok, but abortion-abortion, now that is a step too far?

cptacek on August 20, 2012 at 12:25 PM

Buy Danish on August 20, 2012 at 12:14 PM

I understand the arguments, I’m strictly speaking in terms of the election. If he is, so obviously, not representing the majority view of the GOP and cannot be replaced in a timely manner, than what do you do?

Cindy Munford on August 20, 2012 at 12:26 PM

You know media people always try to trip someone up about this issue.

Hummer53 on August 20, 2012 at 12:01 PM

It wasn’t the media that tripped him up on this issue.
Have a look at

lostmotherland on August 20, 2012 at 11:38 AM

-

verbaluce on August 20, 2012 at 12:26 PM

[Badger40 on August 20, 2012 at 12:14 PM]

Yup. Especially the hubbub part.

stefanite on August 20, 2012 at 12:15 PM

Yup. His biggest screw up was not being clear about much of what he said and if one is not well prepared, speaking extemporaneously is a big danger. Better to be succinct (whether to be as blunt as you suggest both an option and another matter) and allow yourself the opportunity to be asked to elaborate later.

I really don’t know why politicians are so terrible at communication.

Dusty on August 20, 2012 at 12:26 PM

You would be right. They just want government in your life for totally different reasons.

lorien1973 on August 20, 2012 at 12:22 PM

Yeah, government taking the responsible and sensible roll of protecting liberties, like the right to life, is just a total drag man! Next thing you know they might start getting involved in theft, rapes, and beatings! I hates me an overbearing government that won’t let me have absolute liberty at the expense of all others’ liberties!

NotCoach on August 20, 2012 at 12:26 PM

You would be right. They just want government in your life for totally different reasons.

lorien1973 on August 20, 2012 at 12:22 PM

++++

bazil9 on August 20, 2012 at 12:27 PM

I honestly am starting to think the Santorum wing of the Party is the biggest enabler of socialism.

BradTank on August 20, 2012 at 12:14 PM

Any time you turn to government for a solution, it’s a statist approach.

Look for the places where the word “freedom” causes people to cringe, and then stay away from that.

beatcanvas on August 20, 2012 at 12:27 PM

I’m conceding the point. I’m conceding something. Women that think their reproductive system works like a Coke machine, immune from shock or trauma — put in a sperm, take out a baby; …

Axe on August 20, 2012 at 12:19 PM

Exactly, the female body doesn’t work like a Coke machine. It doesn’t stop working if you drop in the wrong coin.

Gelsomina on August 20, 2012 at 12:28 PM

Christine O’Donnell did not win the primary because she was pro-life, she won the primary because a bunch of people decided Castle was unacceptable due to his voting record on other issues.

Ken Buck did not win because he was Pro-Life, he won because his opponent was seen as not conservative enough on other issues.

Sharon Angle did not win the primary because she was Pro-Life, she won because a bunch of ficons liked her better than Tarkanian and Sue Lowden, who were both also Pro-Life.

All of these candidates were SoCon idiots.

Christine O’Donnell at one time tried to lead a crusade against masturbation.

Ken Buck was part of the freak wing that did not want a rape exemption for abortion. His opponent made it the focus of the camapign. it worked.

Sharon Angle actually talked about bringing back alcohol prohibition.

None of these people lost because of their views on deficits, tax rates, or national defense.

BradTank on August 20, 2012 at 12:29 PM

Step aside Todd and let Brunner through. He came in second in the primary, polls best against Claire, and has enough of his own money to make up for the inevitable fundraising shortfall. Missouri does not deserve to be embarrassed like this.

alwaysfiredup on August 20, 2012 at 12:29 PM

Palin was right – Sarah Steelman would be a much better candidate. The Missouri GOP should ask Akin to drop out and ask Steelman to replace him – this is the only way to fix this situation.

Pork-Chop on August 20, 2012 at 12:29 PM

President’s are barred from the amendment process.

NotCoach on August 20, 2012 at 11:37 AM

Their public view on the issue matters (certainly Wilson provided political leadership on the 19th Amendment). Akin made 3 points #1) There are different degrees of rape #2) Women’s reproductive systems can ward of pregnancy in cases of legitimate rape #3) Abortion should be illegal even when pregnancy results from legitimate rape.

Akin is being ridiculed primarily for point #2. However, Romney chose to condemn Akin’s remarks in total and specifically assert his difference on point #3. Point #3 was part of the 2008 GOP platform. It remains to be seen whether Akin’s statement combined with Romney’s reaction causes the GOP to change the platform in 2012. Certainly, Romney will now be asked about that part of the platform.

dedalus on August 20, 2012 at 12:30 PM

BTW, a woman claiming she was raped isn’t proof that she was raped.

Anyway, Akin admits he misspoke, but that just isn’t good enough. Let’s join with the Democrats and MSM, and pile on him also, so we can make sure Democrats keep the senate. We need to be fair, huh.

Karmi on August 20, 2012 at 12:23 PM

Ok, so you go knock on the doors for him and talk to people face to face about why he should represent them in the senate. Or even make phone calls for him.

Why do people think the ostrich approach works here? Even if we just shut up and pretend this didn’t happen, and lets even assume people donate to him – exactly who is going to go out there and put those funds to use with some grassroots on the ground campaigning?

Why do people think Todd Akin is the only possible chance to take the senate after this interview? Do they not understand how vulnerable Claire was up until this?

stldave on August 20, 2012 at 12:30 PM

NotCoach on August 20, 2012 at 12:26 PM

Yeah! And, after all, wasn’t it our Founding Fathers, like Abdul Washington, Hussein Jefferson, and Ishtar Franklin, who said, “Behead the infidel babies!”

If we listened to some of these idiots on this thread, one would think that Christian Americans comprised 22% of the poulation, instead of the documented 78%.

Criminently.

kingsjester on August 20, 2012 at 12:31 PM

Senator Ron Johnson calls on Todd Akin to drop out of the race

Esoteric on August 20, 2012 at 12:17 PM

LOL. I know Ron Johnson. It’s funny how y’all put weight behind what he says; you might not if you knew him. He’s a Steelman shill to boot.

alwaysfiredup on August 20, 2012 at 12:31 PM

@Ed Morrissey

FYI: The pregnancy via rape rate for forcible rape is not 5%. That stat includes all types of rapes, including statutory rape, which comprises the bulk of pregnancies due to rape. Consensual sex that is illegal (like between certain adolescents) skews the stats.

Akin is correct that a woman’s body reacts to the trauma of forcible rape by suppressing ovulation. Yes, acute stress affects fertility. We’re designed that way for a reason; it is difficult to carry a child to term if the mother is overly stressed.

Not sure why so-called pro-life Republicans are so dead set on defaming and persecuting a solidly pro-life Republican senate candidate over a simple gaffe.

TXJenny on August 20, 2012 at 12:32 PM

All of these candidates were SoCon idiots.

Christine O’Donnell at one time tried to lead a crusade against masturbation.

Ken Buck was part of the freak wing that did not want a rape exemption for abortion. His opponent made it the focus of the camapign. it worked.

Sharon Angle actually talked about bringing back alcohol prohibition.

None of these people lost because of their views on deficits, tax rates, or national defense.

BradTank on August 20, 2012 at 12:29 PM

Castle did not lose the primary because he was Pro-Choice. He lost because he was viewed as a RINO.

Ken Buck was viewed as more fiscally conservative

Sharon Angle was trumpeted by Tea Party folks.

They lost for different reasons, but they did not lose because of their Abortion stance.

Bluray on August 20, 2012 at 12:32 PM

What about all the liberal to moderate candidates that lose, if we are going to bring up Angle, O’Donnel and the “social conservative ones”, we need to talk McCain, Dole, Bush Sr, etc. Reagan was social conservative and he won.

Dr. Tesla on August 20, 2012 at 12:33 PM

Palin was right – Sarah Steelman would be a much better candidate. The Missouri GOP should ask Akin to drop out and ask Steelman to replace him – this is the only way to fix this situation.

Pork-Chop on August 20, 2012 at 12:29 PM

No, John Brunner was the second-place finisher in the race. He should be the nominee; Steelman is exactly as apt as Akin to say something foolish.

alwaysfiredup on August 20, 2012 at 12:34 PM

We finally get the Democrats on the ropes with Biden, then this numbnut pops off. I’m sure the Vice President is enjoying his “Get Out of Jail Free Card” right now.

Akin needs to go stat. As Brunner came in second, he should get the nod (kinda like the runner up in a Miss America pageant). Only hang-up will be getting him on the ballot, as the Dems control the Secretary of State and the Courts in Missouri. No way the Dems will let him off the ballot without a fight, as he not only helps get McCaskill reelected, but he can be used as a weapon to bash Romney as well.

JFS61 on August 20, 2012 at 12:35 PM

Sean Trende is dumb. Backtracking by tweeting “~” means “almost” but there was nothing “~” about Ann Richards winning. Clayton Williams got ground up like hamburger. Even I voted Richards.

Marcus on August 20, 2012 at 12:35 PM

All of these candidates were SoCon idiots.

Christine O’Donnell at one time tried to lead a crusade against masturbation.

Ken Buck was part of the freak wing that did not want a rape exemption for abortion. His opponent made it the focus of the camapign. it worked.

Sharon Angle actually talked about bringing back alcohol prohibition.

None of these people lost because of their views on deficits, tax rates, or national defense.

BradTank on August 20, 2012 at 12:29 PM

Really good points here. There is little difference between a big government socialist and a big government so-con — both want to use the blunt force of government to make their fellow citizens submit.

Rational Thought on August 20, 2012 at 12:35 PM

Akin is being ridiculed primarily for point #2. However, Romney chose to condemn Akin’s remarks in total and specifically assert his difference on point #3. Point #3 was part of the 2008 GOP platform. It remains to be seen whether Akin’s statement combined with Romney’s reaction causes the GOP to change the platform in 2012. Certainly, Romney will now be asked about that part of the platform.

dedalus on August 20, 2012 at 12:30 PM

Point #3 though is irrelevant to the discussion. Plenty of elected officials agree with point #3. Point #3 is only relevant to those who can vote for any particular politician. I don’t believe that point #3 is a negative for Akin in Missouri.

Now, liberals will make hay out of point #3, but liberals are dishonest hacks who would never have brought point #3 up concerning Akin if points #1 and #2 never happened.

NotCoach on August 20, 2012 at 12:35 PM

Yes, acute stress affects fertility.

TXJenny on August 20, 2012 at 12:32 PM

Acute stress affects ovulation. If you get pregnant from rape, you probably ovulated before the rape so it could not have had a causal effect. Show some sort of link or study or evidence of some kind if you disagree, something after 1990.

alwaysfiredup on August 20, 2012 at 12:36 PM

Ok, so you go knock on the doors for him and talk to people face to face about why he should represent them in the senate. Or even make phone calls for him.

Why do people think the ostrich approach works here? Even if we just shut up and pretend this didn’t happen, and lets even assume people donate to him – exactly who is going to go out there and put those funds to use with some grassroots on the ground campaigning?

Why do people think Todd Akin is the only possible chance to take the senate after this interview? Do they not understand how vulnerable Claire was up until this?

stldave on August 20, 2012 at 12:30 PM

Because McCaskill will vote against repealing Obamacare. Because McCaskill will vote against lower taxes and regulations. Because McCaskill will vote against spending cuts and budgets that seek to reform social security and medicare.

I’m okay with him being replaced, but if he is not for whatever reason and MO elects McCaskill anyway, I’m blaming MO.

Your state didn’t have to have a 3-way primary. If Steelman dropped out, Brunner would have won. If Brunner had dropped out, Steelman could have won.

This is what happens when you have too many factions.

Bluray on August 20, 2012 at 12:36 PM

There is only one answer. He will lose the election. Since it is inevitable, just relax and enjoy it … :-)

Gelsomina on August 20, 2012 at 12:06 PM

You do not know that unless you can time travel & traveled to the future.
I prefer to just let Missourians decide & would encourage them to vote for the GOP guy, regardless of this crap.
Bcs the alternative is more liberalism.

Badger40 on August 20, 2012 at 12:37 PM

No, John Brunner was the second-place finisher in the race. He should be the nominee; Steelman is exactly as apt as Akin to say something foolish.

alwaysfiredup on August 20, 2012 at 12:34 PM

A runoff whould be the American way…

Let the people decide.

idesign on August 20, 2012 at 12:37 PM

Only hang-up will be getting him on the ballot

JFS61 on August 20, 2012 at 12:35 PM

If he withdraws by Tuesday, the name on the ballot will be replaced per RSMO 115.359 and 115.363. If he waits longer, we might have an issue.

alwaysfiredup on August 20, 2012 at 12:37 PM

A runoff whould be the American way…

Let the people decide.

idesign on August 20, 2012 at 12:37 PM

That’s not the law.

alwaysfiredup on August 20, 2012 at 12:37 PM

It’s time for the people who believe in stories to become acclimated with reality for once. The world population is growing out of control. The more people that exist the lower our quality of life is. Abortions shouldn’t be rare, they should be available as required. I don’t need people who can’t keep their pants up to create further scarcity issues. All I care about is my own household, maybe you all should mind your own business too.

LevStrauss on August 20, 2012 at 12:38 PM

MY point is telling you this-is that people like me are SURVIVORS. We are STRONG. God is good, kind, and merciful.
Rape victims who find themselves pregnant and do the right thing are the ULTIMATE strong women. They are survivors-not victims, despite what you believe!

annoyinglittletwerp on August 20, 2012 at 12:19 PM

I am very sorry for what you had to endure. You were able to be strong…but maybe some women don’t have that same strength, no matter how much they may wish they did. And like I said, psychological issues that can result from rape are not within the victims control, and some victims may not be able to recover very well at all. Everyone will not be able to do what you did.

:-)

lynncgb on August 20, 2012 at 12:39 PM

Your state didn’t have to have a 3-way primary. If Steelman dropped out, Brunner would have won. If Brunner had dropped out, Steelman could have won.

Bluray on August 20, 2012 at 12:36 PM

Brunner would have won even with Steelman in the race had she not gotten the Palin endorsement.

alwaysfiredup on August 20, 2012 at 12:39 PM

Because McCaskill will vote against repealing Obamacare. Because McCaskill will vote against lower taxes and regulations. Because McCaskill will vote against spending cuts and budgets that seek to reform social security and medicare.

I’m okay with him being replaced, but if he is not for whatever reason and MO elects McCaskill anyway, I’m blaming MO.

Your state didn’t have to have a 3-way primary. If Steelman dropped out, Brunner would have won. If Brunner had dropped out, Steelman could have won.

This is what happens when you have too many factions.

Bluray on August 20, 2012 at 12:36 PM

Good points.

Badger40 on August 20, 2012 at 12:39 PM

If you oppose abortion in general and want them banned with the exceptions for rape and death of the mother in childbirth, that makes you a Nazi?

that’s like saying if you opposed somebody, say mike vick, torturing dogs you are a big government nazi.

Dr. Tesla on August 20, 2012 at 12:40 PM

The SoCons continue screwing the rest of the party with their abortion obsession. They simply cannot shut the F up and do work on their pet issue behind the scenes and under cover like the left does its pet issues.

They simply will never learn.

rickyricardo on August 20, 2012 at 12:40 PM

Anyway, Akin admits he misspoke, but that just isn’t good enough. Let’s join with the Democrats and MSM, and pile on him also, so we can make sure Democrats keep the senate. We need to be fair, huh.

Karmi on August 20, 2012 at 12:23 PM

The piling on him right now, at least until tomorrow at 5 PM, is in the purposes of making sure they don’t.

Now, if the point of no return passes and he hasn’t left, then the piling on needs to end for tactical purposes, but people are still not keen on the idea of riding this campaign all the way to the scene of the crash when there’s still a simple way to fix things.

This is something that I doubt explanations or apologies will work on; independents who see it will instantly decide either they can’t possibly vote for him or that they’ve got to vote for his opponent. General election campaign hasn’t even really started yet and THIS is the first impression a lot of swing voters get of the guy.

Tresjin on August 20, 2012 at 12:42 PM

ricky,

i rarely hear any republican talk about abortion, especially the way this atkins guy did. I don’t know what planet you are living on but they avoid the issue, even Bush avoided it despite being called a rabid pro lifer by the Dems.

Dr. Tesla on August 20, 2012 at 12:42 PM

I don’t believe that point #3 is a negative for Akin in Missouri.

Now, liberals will make hay out of point #3, but liberals are dishonest hacks who would never have brought point #3 up concerning Akin if points #1 and #2 never happened.

NotCoach on August 20, 2012 at 12:35 PM

Liberals and Akin aren’t the issue. Romney jumped in and took the position that he and Ryan wouldn’t oppose abortion in cases of rape. He and Ryan will need to square that with the GOP platform at some point.

dedalus on August 20, 2012 at 12:42 PM

Brunner would have won even with Steelman in the race had she not gotten the Palin endorsement.

alwaysfiredup on August 20, 2012 at 12:39 PM

I don’t blame Palin in this situation, but this is like the Nevada race.

It is the responsibility of the factions of the party and the state party to make sure that the candidates most accurately reflect as much of the base as possible.

In Nevada you had three notable office holders who engaged in serious blood letting against each other. If the Nevada GOP has simply gotten Sue Lowden and Tarkanian together and said: Flip a Coin, winner runs now, loser runs in 2012 for Ensign’s seat, we avoid Sharon Angle.

Bluray on August 20, 2012 at 12:43 PM

Brunner would have won even with Steelman in the race had she not gotten the Palin endorsement.

alwaysfiredup on August 20, 2012 at 12:39 PM

It’s amusing that you blame Palin, but have been silent on Bachmann and Huck backing Akin..:)

idesign on August 20, 2012 at 12:44 PM

Men should not be dictating to female rape victims. Government officials with no experience of sexual assault should not be dictating to sexual assault victims. Todd Akin has *no* clue as to what a sexual assault does to a woman psychologically, the difficult path towards healing and the way a pregnancy may fundamentally block a woman from that healing process. As for the male posters who are calling rape victims who abort their babies “murderers,” all I can say is that I pray to the lord above the women in your life are smart enough to get away from you, and fast.

libfreeordie on August 20, 2012 at 12:44 PM

government does have some legit roles to fill, like preventing abortions. Liberterians tend to ignore the ethics of anything, and liberals all of a sudden adopt small go vernment rhetoric when it comees to abortion, even though it’s not being applied correctly to the issue.

Dr. Tesla on August 20, 2012 at 12:45 PM

I thought that mittens/ryan were pro-life….they issued a statement that contradicts that….which is it? if you’re pro-life, then there should be no exception for rape ….the child is innocent and should not be killed…if mittens/ryan abandon these unborn children…it would be unconscionable!

Pragmatic on August 20, 2012 at 12:45 PM

MY point is telling you this-is that people like me are SURVIVORS. We are STRONG. God is good, kind, and merciful.
Rape victims who find themselves pregnant and do the right thing are the ULTIMATE strong women. They are survivors-not victims, despite what you believe!

annoyinglittletwerp on August 20, 2012 at 12:19 PM

God Bless You. Our World is a better place with you in it:))

ToddPA on August 20, 2012 at 12:46 PM

It’s amusing that you blame Palin, but have been silent on Bachmann and Huck backing Akin..:)

idesign on August 20, 2012 at 12:44 PM

How is Akin Huckabee’s fault? Huckabee would have been prepared for this type of question.

Bluray on August 20, 2012 at 12:46 PM

psychological issues that can result from rape are not within the victims control, and some victims may not be able to recover very well at all. Everyone will not be able to do what you did.

:-)

lynncgb on August 20, 2012 at 12:39 PM

Psychological issues,to a certain degree, ARE within peoples’ control.
I’m not talking about being bipolar or schizophrenic here.
I’m talking about having a tendency to be weak in a certain area, like morality or being addicted to something etc.
We’re talking about a person being able to use deductive reasoning to overcome their emotional response & do the right thing.
I was ‘over’ my rape within a few days.
Bcs I chose not to let it control me the way some women do.
There are women who milk this stuff forever. There are women who use this stuff to become stronger & help others.
Bad stuff happens to everyone.
It’s how you choose to deal with it that eludes to your character.
And that is where society, parenting, communal support, laws, etc come into play.
There are lots of weak people out there.
I remember when 9/11 happened & how people who had no connection to the incident other than being American were so debilitated by what had happened they were crying & tearing their hair out, missing work, getting depressed, etc.
We have become a culture that has I think focused on feelings too much.
There is a time to do so. But we do it all the time.

Badger40 on August 20, 2012 at 12:46 PM

Prag,

Rape is a complicated issue, but rape is the exception to most abortion cases.

Liberals like Pragmatic want to use the rape thing to justify all abortions. that’s not being pragmatic, it’s been a hack and abortion shill.

Dr. Tesla on August 20, 2012 at 12:48 PM

Liberterians tend to ignore the ethics of anything, and liberals all of a sudden adopt small go vernment rhetoric when it comees to abortion, even though it’s not being applied correctly to the issue.

Dr. Tesla on August 20, 2012 at 12:45 PM

This is why I have a hard time supporting full on the Libertarian position on everything.
I guess I have to call myself a Conservative with libertarian leanings.

Badger40 on August 20, 2012 at 12:48 PM

I guess I have to call myself a Conservative with libertarian leanings.

Badger40 on August 20, 2012 at 12:48 PM

That’s what I consider myself too.

annoyinglittletwerp on August 20, 2012 at 12:50 PM

I think like 95% of abortions have nothing to do with the mother possibly dying in childbirth or rape. It’s just about getting rid of a kid the mother and/or father don’t want.

Dr. Tesla on August 20, 2012 at 12:50 PM

Men should not be dictating to female rape victims. Government officials with no experience of sexual assault should not be dictating to sexual assault victims. Todd Akin has *no* clue as to what a sexual assault does to a woman psychologically, the difficult path towards healing and the way a pregnancy may fundamentally block a woman from that healing process. As for the male posters who are calling rape victims who abort their babies “murderers,” all I can say is that I pray to the lord above the women in your life are smart enough to get away from you, and fast.

libfreeordie on August 20, 2012 at 12:44 PM

So if a person doesn’t have personal experience with something means they cannot even weigh in on an issue?
I would say that maybe more people who have not experienced such things should weigh in on issues they have personally not experienced, but try to think rationally about.
Liberals like you want to keep people thinking with their private parts & emotions instead of actually trying to be logical.
I DO have a clue what it’s like to be raped & I am telling you women who kill their babies bcs they can’t handle the emotional stress are still murdering an innocent life.

Badger40 on August 20, 2012 at 12:51 PM

all I can say is that I pray to the lord above the women in your life are smart enough to get away from you, and fast.

libfreeordie on August 20, 2012 at 12:44 PM

You actually “Pray to the Lord”??

ToddPA on August 20, 2012 at 12:52 PM

I think like 95% of abortions have nothing to do with the mother possibly dying in childbirth or rape. It’s just about getting rid of a kid the mother and/or father don’t want.

Dr. Tesla on August 20, 2012 at 12:50 PM

I would LOVE to see a legitimate study come about regarding this.
Bcs I think there’s a strong possibility this is true.

Badger40 on August 20, 2012 at 12:53 PM

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