The end of tenure as we know it?

posted at 2:01 pm on August 19, 2012 by Jazz Shaw

We see plenty of political humor these days stemming from the policies and comments of New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, but not all of his ideas are suitable for satire. Back in 2010, the mayor proposed some remarkable changes to the public education system, including a plan to “end tenure as we know it.” That’s an ambitious goal to say the least, particularly in an environment with such a hugely powerful, deeply entrenched teacher union system. But just this week we found out that his efforts may be beginning to bear some fruit.

Nearly half of New York City teachers reaching the end of their probations were denied tenure this year, the Education Department said on Friday, marking the culmination of years of efforts toward Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg’s goal to end “tenure as we know it.”

Only 55 percent of eligible teachers, having worked for at least three years, earned tenure in 2012, compared with 97 percent in 2007.

An additional 42 percent this year were kept on probation for another year, and 3 percent were denied tenure and fired. Of those whose probations were extended last year, fewer than half won tenure this year, a third were given yet another year to prove themselves, and 16 percent were denied tenure or resigned.

This is an interesting trend which may be sending a message to the teachers’ unions, but it’s not a long term solution. Teachers failing to receive tenure are simply given another season or two to get it or they drop out. The end goal for all of them – and the unions – is still to land tenure so they can stay on indefinitely on the taxpayer dime once they get it.

It’s no surprise that that unions would be pushing back against this. We’re talking about a group which also fights like the devil against the idea of things like merit pay, despite the fact that studies show that it works. It’s a culture unlike virtually any other in the nation, where outrage greets the idea that competition for a job should result in the best candidates and that pay might be linked to performance.

If Bloomberg really wants to transition into a system with more long term potential, tenure should be gradually pushed back, taking five, ten and eventually twenty years, with a long term goal of eliminating the antiquated, self defeating system entirely. Of course, to do that will require essentially breaking the back of the current union power structure. And they’re not going to give up their long held positions of privilege without a fight.


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The end of tenure as we know it?

…and I feel fine.

:P

Ladysmith CulchaVulcha on August 19, 2012 at 2:07 PM

The end of tenure as we know it?
…and I feel fine.

:P

Ladysmith CulchaVulcha on August 19, 2012 at 2:07 PM

Strong contender for thread winner, right out of the gate!!
/BISHOP!!

Khun Joe on August 19, 2012 at 2:09 PM

Of course, the problem is that this isn’t a permanent solution. Actually ENDING the tenure idea altogether is the main solution, not just putting it off for a little bit. Still, even if Doomberg stopped every teacher from getting tenure while he was in office, the next left-wing Mayor will just reinstate it. few teachers might be inconvenienced but that’s about it. It is a positive move in the right direction, but is a bandaid on a ten-inch gash!

Warner Todd Huston on August 19, 2012 at 2:10 PM

42 percent this year were kept on probation for another year

“Double secret probation?” – Greg Marmalard

curved space on August 19, 2012 at 2:10 PM

Yup…break the NEA and Billy Ayers’ control over the narrative.

People we MUST return oversight of the schools’ to the people.

harlekwin15 on August 19, 2012 at 2:10 PM

Ha! Good one Ladysmith. BUT teacher protection is only one part of the problem. Discipline, school uniforms and parental involvement is a huge problem also. The ability to fire teachers will only affect the education of the majority of students that want to learn. It still does not permit school systems from removing students who disrupt the rest of the school with slutty clothing, cell phone use, dope distribution, gangs and a mass of other problems.

TX-96 on August 19, 2012 at 2:11 PM

Number of employee in the private sector who get tenure after three years: zero percent.

At this rate, we’ll bust up Public Employee Unions in, oh, 20,000 years. Too bad we go broke in 20.

VastRightWingConspirator on August 19, 2012 at 2:11 PM

Look deep into the plan. I would bet that little actually changes.

98ZJUSMC on August 19, 2012 at 2:11 PM

The public teachers unions are running pro-union ads here in Michigan. They want us to believe that without their union, we would have really old textbooks and huge class sizes. Well I was in elementary school in the 60′s and our class sizes were always at least 35 kids or more. I would submit that I got a better education than what the public schools provide now. The only difference is back then the teachers union barely had any power. And the focus was on teaching the basics back then. They weren’t using the public schools to brainwash and indoctrinate the kids with all of the liberal causes. Heck we even started our day reciting the pledge of allegience.

karenhasfreedom on August 19, 2012 at 2:14 PM

Good. Just because you’ve been teaching for the last thirty years, your first three or five years should not give you a free pass for he rest of your life.

Just about everyone else who works in this country gets an annual review and if they are not performing they either don’t get a raise or they can be terminated from their jobs.

Teachers shouldn’t be allowed a different set of standards.

banzaibob on August 19, 2012 at 2:14 PM

The modern “press corps” (CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, MSNBC, etc.) aren’t a press corp– they’re a propaganda corps. So for the press to be upset about being compared to People is relatively insulting– to People. At least they’re giving relatively objective stories on the Bear Falling Out of the Tree, and Beyonce’s amazing post-baby figure.

Nethicus on August 19, 2012 at 2:14 PM

Strong contender for thread winner, right out of the gate!!
/BISHOP!!

Khun Joe on August 19, 2012 at 2:09 PM

Thanky!

;)

Ladysmith CulchaVulcha on August 19, 2012 at 2:14 PM

I Feel Fine

jaime on August 19, 2012 at 2:15 PM

karenhasfreedom on August 19, 2012 at 2:14 PM

+1

banzaibob on August 19, 2012 at 2:16 PM

Ha! Good one Ladysmith. BUT teacher protection is only one part of the problem. Discipline, school uniforms and parental involvement is a huge problem also. The ability to fire teachers will only affect the education of the majority of students that want to learn. It still does not permit school systems from removing students who disrupt the rest of the school with slutty clothing, cell phone use, dope distribution, gangs and a mass of other problems.

TX-96 on August 19, 2012 at 2:11 PM

True and growing problems, fellow Texan. I am so glad to not have any more children to go through what passes for “education” nowadays.

Ladysmith CulchaVulcha on August 19, 2012 at 2:19 PM

There is no particular reason that public school teachers need tenure. The whole point of tenure is to protect educators and allow them freedom to express controversial opinions and take part in research. At the university level, this at least makes sense, but how does that apply to a 7th grade PE teacher?

If they are going to have the same system, then at least apply the same standards. At most top universities getting a tenured position is very competitive. It is not automatic after 3 years. I know a professor who despite having 10 years of experience teaching, in which she was named the best teacher in the department twice, and having degrees from Brown, Harvard and Stanford, had not received tenure yet. If a public high school teacher can achieve these standards, then let them have tenure. If not, well they can compete in the same world as the rest of us.

JamesB on August 19, 2012 at 2:20 PM

…can you believe it?…a job based on merit!

KOOLAID2 on August 19, 2012 at 2:21 PM

Free enterprise at work. My employer just sold to a big guy. They welcomed us is with the tenure, with this…..”Now prove you deserve it”.

THAT is the America I know. Drag and lag or Zoom and Bloom.

Limerick on August 19, 2012 at 2:21 PM

This is an interesting trend which may be sending a message to the teachers’ unions, but it’s not a long term solution.

This is not an “interesting trend.” It is a disgusting trend.

It’s like the way businesses won’t hire people full time because if someone is hired full time, the business is forced to provide full benefits. So the solution by businesses is just to hire a lot of part time. Or it is like the solution of businesses to automate because paying sky-high minimum wage has become too exorbitant. Or it is like those who shelter their income in other countries because it’s too expensive to do business here. These are all linked by being symptoms of the ugly and weird contortions of our “free enterprise” system which is being destroyed by liberals on a quest to build their utopia.

It figures that Bloomberg would consider this a partial solution. He’s such a fascist jackass.

Burke on August 19, 2012 at 2:22 PM

“I’ll be back”

-teacher looking for tenure

pehrsson on August 19, 2012 at 2:23 PM

The end goal for all of them – and the unions – is still to land tenure so they can stay on indefinitely on the taxpayer dime once they get it.

How do you prevent pressure from other sources to change grades or make decisions not based on actual actions of students?

rob verdi on August 19, 2012 at 2:23 PM

karenhasfreedom on August 19, 2012 at 2:14 PM

…same experience!…and don’t laugh…because in the 60′s…the Detroit public school system wasn’t what it is today!

KOOLAID2 on August 19, 2012 at 2:24 PM

How do you prevent pressure from other sources to change grades or make decisions not based on actual actions of students?

rob verdi on August 19, 2012 at 2:23 PM

The more important question to me is, “how do we keep the professional activist left from indoctrinating kids?”

the rest is navigable.

harlekwin15 on August 19, 2012 at 2:27 PM

We should end tenure period.

Teachers are paid by public tax dollars and therefore should not be entitled to have unions in the first place, let alone tenure that just protects useless f*cks that pretend to be teachers and aren’t fit to be babysitters.

Toss them all out in their asses and put some people interested in actually teaching the kids useful, important things.

Like how to read, do math without a calculator, UNREVISED AMERICAN HISTORY. You know, things the leftist pigs hate our kids knowing.

Wolfmoon on August 19, 2012 at 2:29 PM

“How do you prevent pressure from other sources to change grades or make decisions not based on actual actions of students?”

It really isn’t that complicated.

You start with standardized testing. Does this teacher raise the scores, and by how much with respect to his/her peers?

You give a principal the authority to hire and fire based on whatever performance metrics they choose. Then you evaluate the principal based on his/her school’s improvement year over year.

Most importantly, if the principal’s students aren’t improving adequately, you can him.

It’s amazing that every other nongovernmental org works by these principles, but somehow, schools won’t. It’s almost as if there is another agenda rather than school quality. I wonder what it could be?

pehrsson on August 19, 2012 at 2:32 PM

At the university level, this at least makes sense, but how does that apply to a 7th grade PE teacher?

On reason for tenure is to keep whiny parents from pushing the school into firing good teachers. Teachers with high standards generate a lot of complaints from students and their parents who think Johnny and Sally are entitled to all As without doing any work. Teachers can also be required to teach controversial subjects like evolution, economics, the Civil War, geology (think young earth creationists), etc. that can generate parent complaints.

Imagine a group of leftist parents complaining about an economics teacher who teaches that free markets bring prosperity while communism brings poverty. Those angry parents demand that the teacher be fired for it, and some school administrator whose main goal is a calm, easy day at the office thinks, “Hey, if I fire this teacher maybe these parents will shut up and stop calling my office!”

Tenure has some negative consequences and definitely needs reform to make it easier to get rid of bad teachers, but it also protects good ones from rotten parents who want them fired.

AngusMc on August 19, 2012 at 2:34 PM

CA DMV Issues Licenses To Some Here Illegally
… as part of Obama’s backdoor amnesty.

http://www.kfiam640.com/pages/BillCarroll.html?article=10353487

rayra on August 19, 2012 at 2:35 PM

Maybe simply pushing for a voucher system will solve almost all public school problems in ten years or less. Private schools, run like a business, will either turn out a good product or go bust. The more of such schools that can flourish, the less difficult it will be for parents to give their children a better education.

The public school system can die on the vine if it can’t compete, which is practically a sure thing with the unions so influential and unbending.

Liam on August 19, 2012 at 2:38 PM

Although Bloomberg has nanny-stateitis he – unlike the PutzOTUS – realizes that he is not the despot-in-chief of his city and therefore will have to work with the city council. What are the odds the NYC council will butt heads with their primary source of campaign contributions? The council will appease the teacher public sector unions just like the Dems did in California.

In a stunning example of truth stranger than fiction, Democrats in the California Assembly killed a bill that would have made it easier to fire teachers accused of serious sexual offenses against children.

Add to that the fact that – just like in the Douglas County sdchool district here in Colo – the ACLU and public sector union litigants will show up in force.

rocksandbroncs on August 19, 2012 at 2:41 PM

I am quite aware of the New York State system, I am a teacher so let me expound on it:

The ” tenure” weakening occurs if a teacher gets a 65 out of a hundred two years in a row. The score sis based on showing the work you have done, communication with parents goals for the year, etc… The bulk of the score is based on observations from administrators and about 40 percent from merit tests. The problem is the state pushed the testing aspect without coming up with a working mechanism for a legitimate evaluation of student performance. To fix the issue the State Education Department now has us writing the tests we are going to be evaluated on. Its a real mess, to put it mildly.

If anyone is interested just type in APPR NY State and you should get information.

rob verdi on August 19, 2012 at 2:42 PM

How do you prevent pressure from other sources to change grades or make decisions not based on actual actions of students?

rob verdi on August 19, 2012 at 2:23 PM

The more important question to me is, “how do we keep the professional activist left from indoctrinating kids?”

the rest is navigable.

harlekwin15 on August 19, 2012 at 2:27 PM

Get involved in your local school and the school board.

rob verdi on August 19, 2012 at 2:44 PM

Jesus wants tenure! /libfreeordie

MeatHeadinCA on August 19, 2012 at 2:44 PM

Everyone else in the world enjoys job security only if they do a good job on a continuing basis, and their employer remains competitive and in demand.

I would love to see this put before the voters in an initiative of the people. The tax payers are the “owners” of the school system. Why should the employees receive a benefit that the owners do not have?

The Rock on August 19, 2012 at 2:46 PM

There is no particular reason that public school teachers need tenure. The whole point of tenure is to protect educators and allow them freedom to express controversial opinions and take part in research. At the university level, this at least makes sense, but how does that apply to a 7th grade PE teacher?

When someone’s darling takes offense that you’re teaching Dante’s Inferno, Paradise Lost, or any other Christian work because they’re offended by the mere mention of religion, even if it’s in the curriculum. Or some high schooler decides that they’re offended by reading a point of view other than their own. Or you teacher a controversial book that a parent objects to, like Catcher in the Rye or Lord of the Flies. Or you aggravate the administration by not changing a kid’s failing grade to passing, not that they can’t override you anyway.

I agree that bad teachers need to be fired, but what you as parents think is bad and what the school itself thinks is bad can be very different things. There’s one teacher at my school who gives out nothing but grades 95 or above. He used to teach at a college level, but few kids were willing to do the work, many failed, and he was read the riot act by administration. Now that he passes everyone, he is not scolded by administration *nor* the parents. In fact, I have heard parents say that he can start being “hard” again after their child has gone through the class and received the easy A. Did I mention he’s the Advanced Placement Physics teacher?

True, the teachers have the kids a large part of the day and a good portion of education’s failure rests on our backs. And the parents have the kids the rest of the day…well, maybe. And students at the high school level are the result of eight to twelve years of previous teachers. If merit pay is to be instituted, it has to come with other reforms. Parent accountability, enforcing that students actually live in the school district, and reducing the government programs tacked onto education all need implementation. Teachers writing the benchmark and final exams, not district level offices who have never taught or who haven’t been in the classroom in years.

Honestly? I don’t think this will ever come to pass.

kc-anathema on August 19, 2012 at 2:46 PM

Any chance teacher’s unions can just be made illegal? I’m serious. I mean if FDR said public employee unions were a bad idea, who serves the public more than a public school teacher? Teachers should be public servants. Period. Or privatize the whole failing system. Our kids can’t wait any longer.

parteagirl on August 19, 2012 at 2:49 PM

This is an interesting trend which may be sending a message to the teachers’ unions, but it’s not a long term solution. Teachers failing to receive tenure are simply given another season or two to get it or they drop out. The end goal for all of them – and the unions – is still to land tenure so they can stay on indefinitely on the taxpayer dime once they get it.

The ,purpose of tenure is to protect teachers against arbitrary dismissal etc. Tenure is merely to assure fair dismissal, and who can rationally be against that. By the fact that they give grades, they are subject to reprisals–believe me, they get them from every parent who thinks their child is superior and the teacher is but a servant, until after a bad report card, then they become the parents enemy, which makes them the enemy of the all-too-politically conscience principle, and poof, the pressure starts.

Dare any teacher today confront the leftist curriculum as being bad for the child, the family, and the nation, without tenure and poof, they’re gone, tenure or not. But who wants to protect teachers that fight the leftist ideology that’s forced down their necks,hmmm?

Bad teachers? Blame management for hiring and failing to correct bad teaching, and the government bureaucrats for having them wasting time jumping through immpossible accountability hoops, when they should be concentrating on teaching–not proving.

That having been said, those lawbreakers in Wisconsin should have been fired on the spot,

Don L on August 19, 2012 at 2:50 PM

That’s principal, too often a person without principle!

Don L on August 19, 2012 at 2:51 PM

For all of you who are concerned about parental influence on grades and teacher evaluations, your concerns are legitimate, but see my post at 2:32. A good principal is certainly alert to poor teachers, but many aren’t because that is the easiest way to get mollify the teacher’s union and get promoted.

However, if a principal’s job depends on the aggregate test scores at the school, and one teacher is dragging that down, you can be that that teacher will be gone.

The system must reward education, not union placation.

pehrsson on August 19, 2012 at 2:52 PM

The idea of tenure for public employees is preposterous.

petefrt on August 19, 2012 at 2:53 PM

“How do you prevent pressure from other sources to change grades or make decisions not based on actual actions of students?”

It really isn’t that complicated.

You start with standardized testing. Does this teacher raise the scores, and by how much with respect to his/her peers?

You give a principal the authority to hire and fire based on whatever performance metrics they choose. Then you evaluate the principal based on his/her school’s improvement year over year.

Most importantly, if the principal’s students aren’t improving adequately, you can him.

It’s amazing that every other nongovernmental org works by these principles, but somehow, schools won’t. It’s almost as if there is another agenda rather than school quality. I wonder what it could be?

pehrsson on August 19, 2012 at 2:32 PM

Standardized testing is a joke. It doesn’t measure anything competently.
It’s a tool that could be useful, but currently is not.
I’ve commented before on why. But basically so many of these tests don’t test the standards they’re telling us to teach, & then when they do test a standard, competency is based on one porrly worded multiple choice question.
Regarding principal’s ability to hire/fire, that is the school board’s decision, & rightfully so. Recommendations come from the Superintendent & principal & then the board will make the decision.
And as far as a teacher making students’ scores rise on a test, there are so many variables that go into a student’s score on a test a scientist would not touch such a thing with a 10 foot pole.
I am a good teacher. I know this now after 11 years. But I often get students who do consistently worse.
Reasons include:
Parents
Technology
School environment
Personal work ethic etc. I cannot be held responsible for a kid who doesn’t care & guesses on their answers.
That doesn’t happen in college.
I do think that Administrator’s need to be evaluated more properly.
Our supertd. gets to evaluate HIMSELF.
And he is extremely incompetent.
The 2 principals under him are also just as bad & one is much worse.
It is the school board & the community who are responsible for this condition.
And they do nothing.
Bcs no one wants to engage in public service anymore.

Tenure has some negative consequences and definitely needs reform to make it easier to get rid of bad teachers, but it also protects good ones from rotten parents who want them fired.

AngusMc on August 19, 2012 at 2:34 PM

I agree with you on this. I have seen excellent teachers railroaded & hounded out of town bcs of parents. I have seen incompetent teachers get to stay bcs they’re good coaches & give their kids good grades so that they can apply for scholarships.
Many parents of the students I teach don’t care that their children learn anything. They care about the GPA.

My opinion is that we need to get rid of the DOE & turn control AND funding of education back to the states, & in turn, local communities.
The Federal Govt owes no one a free education.
That is the responsibility of states & their citizens.
And yes, I fully understand there will be some states that do not properly emphasize a good education & yes I realize that they may endorse teaching things which are a bunch of crap, but that is their right.

All I want to do is teach. And I wish people would just let me teach the kids who want to learn. The ones who do not I try my best to inspire.
But in the end, I cannot make them. I should not be held accountable for that.

Badger40 on August 19, 2012 at 2:53 PM

Get involved in your local school and the school board.

rob verdi on August 19, 2012 at 2:44 PM

I am active in my local….

of course I live 3 hours from the one I pay taxes to.

The federal “grants” carry strings.

Letting teachers get the federal wallet as a teat was a bad idea.

harlekwin15 on August 19, 2012 at 2:59 PM

Here in ND we are at the top of the testing heap. I hear so much spew about how smart our ND kids are & how great they are doing compared to the rest of the nation.
Well I, for one, am not impressed so far with the groups I have been teaching.
Their spelling is horrendous, they cannot think their way out of a paper bag, technology is destroying their critical thinking skills, and they always want a damned cookie when they stumble upon the right answer.
I am sometimes quite harsh & I have very high standards for getting an A in my classes.
But I am also fair & yielding when I need to be.
I also provide quick & consistent feedback to these kids, i.e. get their essay tests (my tests are mostly all essay, short answer, & mathematical in nature) graded by the next day, as well as other work.
I don’t grade everything. I often check that they did it & then we go over & discuss it.
I catch he!! from my admin for making my tests ‘too hard’.
I look at the NWEA computer testing results & the state assessment results that tell me this & that kid are proficient in something & I KNOW it’s a LIE. Bcs I have those kids & know what they can do.
And so many of them cannot do what those tests are saying they can do.

Badger40 on August 19, 2012 at 3:00 PM

KOOLAID2
Go to angrymikeshood.blogspot.com for hot rod info…..

angrymike on August 19, 2012 at 3:01 PM

[i]But in the end, I cannot make them. I should not be held accountable for that.[/i]

I say the following partly tongue in cheek, but also partly seriously.

I have listened to teachers demanding to be treated like professionals for decades. Part of the job is motivating the disinterested kids. If you can’t or won’t do that, why should I hire you as a “professional”? Why shouldn’t I just teach the motivated ones online and save all that money?

Sure, bad parents etc., make a difference. That’s why I’m looking for percentage improvements, not absolute numbers.

As far as saying that the tests are poorly designed and measure nothing, that’s just an argument for better tests, not dismissing the approach. I’ve had more than enough experience with teachers who think their job consists of following their vastly self-inflated muse.

pehrsson on August 19, 2012 at 3:03 PM

The federal “grants” carry strings.

harlekwin15 on August 19, 2012 at 2:59 PM

The states don’t seem to understand that complying with those strings costs them more money than they receive in return.
The states need to stop taking Federal $$ & run their schools the way they want to.
You do not need fancy equipment to teach kids.

One of the screwls I teach at had to deficit spend more than $300,000.
They bought all sorts of worthless crap etc. & STILL couldn’t get rid of it.
The school board is mad at the Suptdt bcs of this.
Bcs they cannot reasonable whine to the state legislature for more $$ when they don’t deficit spend.
This type of thing is insanity & one reason why govt agencies, like screwls, tend to waste so much $$$$.

Badger40 on August 19, 2012 at 3:03 PM

harlekwin15 on August 19, 2012 at 2:59 PM,
Federal influence has been a headache.

rob verdi on August 19, 2012 at 3:08 PM

As far as saying that the tests are poorly designed and measure nothing, that’s just an argument for better tests, not dismissing the approach. I’ve had more than enough experience with teachers who think their job consists of following their vastly self-inflated muse.

pehrsson on August 19, 2012 at 3:03 PM

As long as you spend public money to educate kids, the tests are probably going to always be poorly designed.
These testing companies lobby the state legislature & education depts to get their test bought.
It is a RACKET.
The local school boards should be able to decide if their students are proficient in whatever they want them to learn. OR let the state decide that.
This Common Core coming down the pike to replace NCLB is going to dumb things down EVEN FURTHER.
I kid you not, this standardized testing is putting all your eggs in one basket.
Testing is a tool to help measure progress & knowledge. But it does not tell you a kid is proficient with that knowledge. Not really.
There are many ways to assess & that’s where hiring professional who are competent & knowledgeable comes in.

I will admit that I am satisfied with my pay, in a right to work state. I don’t make nearly as much as some of these teachers in these union dominated screwls.
But I can make a lot more $$ with my science degree than I am making. I teach bcs it fits my ranching lifestyle.
I wanted to go to another screwl to teach, but they can’t offer me more $$ bcs of STATE LAW prohibiting paying a teacher off of the district payscale.
My skills are in demand & a school that wants me can’t offer me more $$.
THAT is pure crap.

Badger40 on August 19, 2012 at 3:09 PM

All levels of education – from grade school to university – should be forbidden access to federal funds unless they abolish tenure.

There! problem solved!

Hear me, Mitt?

honsy on August 19, 2012 at 3:13 PM

“Testing is a tool to help measure progress & knowledge. But it does not tell you a kid is proficient with that knowledge. Not really.
There are many ways to assess & that’s where hiring professional who are competent & knowledgeable comes in.”

I have no problem with having a neutral 3rd party come in and do evals, as long as the teacher the student had is unknown to the tester.

I certainly agree that standardized tests can be an imperfect tool, but until I see something better, that’s what we need to use. I no longer assume the teacher knows anything about the subject matter or the student being tested, or can be trusted to be fair. I’ve had too many contrary experiences to accept either one.

pehrsson on August 19, 2012 at 3:14 PM

Go to angrymikeshood.blogspot.com for hot rod info…..

angrymike on August 19, 2012 at 3:01 PM

…didn’t give me anything!…was wanting to see how close you are to doing the “Dream Cruise” which is going on right now.

KOOLAID2 on August 19, 2012 at 3:25 PM

All I want to do is teach. And I wish people would just let me teach the kids who want to learn. The ones who do not I try my best to inspire.
But in the end, I cannot make them. I should not be held accountable for that.

Badger40 on August 19, 2012 at 2:53 PM

You are absolutely correct. No where in the education “reforms” set forth by this administration or Michelle Rhee (the Democratic progressive Republican RINOs love) is responsibility spelled out for students and parents. What do you do with students who don’t/won’t/can’t learn and parents who don’t/won’t/can’t support their children’s educational progress or lack of progress?

This blaming of teachers (and I know good ones AND bad ones) is a screen for the real problems that plague education and it furthers the privatization movement. But think about it. The privatization is not really “free market”. The charters and vouchers operate under governmental strings. The “entrepreneurs” are using taxpayer money to open these schools, NOT their own money. There’s no gamble. It’s the SAME education.

The teacher tenure issue is something to talk about but it is not the reason schools are in the situation they are in. The reason is local school districts only have the authority to hire teachers and pay for buildings. They can’t set standards, assessments and the curriculum will need to adhere to the Common Core standards. Meanwhile, taxpayers have to pay for whatever expensive boondoggle Congress passes (NCLB) OR the $4.35 Billion check it gave Arne Duncan to “fix” education…it didn’t even VOTE on the plan (Race to the Top) which causes states to sign onto mandates that are unfunded/underfunded. One facet of RTTT, Common Core standards, creates a nationalized curriculum and will cost my state $350 Million (at least) and my state agency is $900 Million underfunded as it is.

Teacher tenure is minor in the big picture and that’s what the elites want people to focus on.

http://www.missourieducationwatchdog.com/2012/01/death-march-takeover-of-american.html

manateespirit on August 19, 2012 at 3:32 PM

Go to angrymikeshood.blogspot.com for hot rod info…..

angrymike on August 19, 2012 at 3:01 PM

…didn’t give me anything!…was wanting to see how close you are to doing the “Dream Cruise” which is going on right now.

KOOLAID2 on August 19, 2012 at 3:25 PM

…nix that…got in!…OMG!…beautiful!
Nice paint job!…Nice rims!…(only thing I know is where the gas goes)…you doing it all?

KOOLAID2 on August 19, 2012 at 3:32 PM

I find it ironic that Bloomberg has gone after tenure after he is in his third term as mayor of NYC, to the point of having term limits overturned so that he could do so.

Tenure has its place. The problem is not tenure, but the abuse of tenure by unions and teachers.

The purpose of tenure was never to “guarantee” a job for life. It was to encourage and protect open discussion in academia. In its search for “the Truth” no matter where it led.

But NOT in a public school where it is corrupted. And in public schools, K-12, it isn’t about academe but yes, as job protection. Tenure should have never found its way to public education.

Nor is engaged academic discussion alive in most universities today where such discussions are fine as long as you follow the Liberal Line.

Tenure, like academic integrity, has been lost in most academic pursuits, especially those in the “soft sciences.” (Humanities, Social Sciences, etc.)

And in many of the traditional sciences it is lost as well, with anyone who questions established “global warming/change/cooling” doctrine being the most obvious of victims in academe.

I can say that tenure, as it was originally designed, had great value. But tenure, now as “job for life” and “abuse of intellectual pursuit” is one of the worst things for our academic institutions.

I say this, having completed my 30th year teaching at a small university. And yes, I’m tenured. So I open my mouth any damn time I please, especially since now I’m only a decade or two from retirement now.

But I am appalled at the faculty who decide to preach in their classroom of politics when they should be teaching Mathematics. Of today’s social mores when they are supposed to focus on imparting knowledge of the past.

And of faculty who decide that they are right, no matter how many times they are shown to be wrong. That ticks me off the most…the failure to keep an open mind.

Academics are supposed to go “You know, you make a valid point. Your facts make sense and follow a logical progression to your conclusion. I’ve changed my mind based on your arguments. Thanks.”

But unfortunately, in so many “disciplines” that isn’t the case anymore.

And that’s the shame of the Academy (as generic collection of ‘intellectuals’ is called among themselves.)

I’m glad I’ve my own businesses through the years, some of which have prospered and some which have failed.

I at least, unlike so many of my ivory tower colleagues, have an investment in making this country prosper. So that my business can prosper, along with those that help me make the business prosper.

Sorry..wandered a bit…occupational hazard ;)

So yeah, “tenure” as we know it today is nothing more than a protection racket for those that need to be out of teaching.

And I’m sad and a bit ashamed that it has happened. Incremental liberalism is insidious.

ProfShadow on August 19, 2012 at 3:35 PM

KOOLAID2
If you still around, that’s what it looked like when I got it, better pictures ahead.
yes, I’m doing as much as I can………Bookmark the link, more to come………;-)

angrymike on August 19, 2012 at 4:03 PM

The idea of tenure for public employees is preposterous.

petefrt on August 19, 2012 at 2:53 PM

The idea of tenure for anyone is preposterous. Yes, I do understand that the right to express unpopular ideas needs to be protected but tenure is dumb.

whbates on August 19, 2012 at 4:04 PM

Knowing the prevailing sentiment here at HA is opposition to tenure – consider those of us who must try keeping our teaching jobs here in California holding a minority political perspective. Due to my tenure I am able to provide my students with a year of real thinking and open-mindedness. My district is so liberal they would can me in a heartbeat if they could.

Also – it is time for Conservatives to discuss the coming Common Core Standards authored by Arne Duncan. This is the most insidious attack on local control of education in the history of this nation. I fear it is a done deal and within in 5 years we will have the few remaining teachers with a conscience leaving the system and the children they are forced to leave behind so indoctrinated they will never recover.

InTheBellyoftheBeast on August 19, 2012 at 4:05 PM

Also – it is time for Conservatives to discuss the coming Common Core Standards authored by Arne Duncan. This is the most insidious attack on local control of education in the history of this nation.

InTheBellyoftheBeast on August 19, 2012 at 4:05 PM

Maybe, just maybe, we could have had 2 less Palin threads in order to discuss this.

faraway on August 19, 2012 at 4:23 PM

This conservative public school teacher says, “hear, hear”!

Grace_is_sufficient on August 19, 2012 at 4:28 PM

My opinion is that we need to get rid of the DOE & turn control AND funding of education back to the states, & in turn, local communities.

Badger40 on August 19, 2012 at 2:53 PM

Yes! And then if the local community wants to offer tenure, that’s their business and so be it.

The more local the government, the better the government.

petefrt on August 19, 2012 at 4:35 PM

“BUT, WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN?????”
Nanzi “I hear spirits in my head” Pelosi

Strike Hornet on August 19, 2012 at 4:39 PM

Tenure has some negative consequences and definitely needs reform to make it easier to get rid of bad teachers, but it also protects good ones from rotten parents who want them fired.

AngusMc on August 19, 2012 at 2:34 PM

Sounds about as smart as the zero tolerance rules in so many schools. It keeps the administration from having to actually think and man up.

CW on August 19, 2012 at 4:43 PM

The “entrepreneurs” are using taxpayer money to open these schools, NOT their own money. There’s no gamble. It’s the SAME education.

manateespirit on August 19, 2012 at 3:32 PM

I agree with all that you’ve said.
That is definitely why I believe in getting the Fed totally out of the situation & giving control back to the states.
If a state doesn’t want to fund public education, they shouldn’t be forced to.
People will vote with their feet.
A parent who has to shell out their $$, not vouchers of free $$ from the federal govt, will spend more wisely.
I know people will whine & rail about how this will cause people to become less educated bcs then people will only teach their kids one viewpoint blah blah blah.
Well it’s their right. I’m not saying I’d agree with that. But it’s their children. They should not be forced to teach their kids or take their kids places to be taught things they don’t agree with.

Also – it is time for Conservatives to discuss the coming Common Core Standards authored by Arne Duncan. This is the most insidious attack on local control of education in the history of this nation. I fear it is a done deal and within in 5 years we will have the few remaining teachers with a conscience leaving the system and the children they are forced to leave behind so indoctrinated they will never recover.
InTheBellyoftheBeast on August 19, 2012 at 4:05 PM

I’m sure you’ve been, or will be doing, inservices on this crap. I just got through with 2 days of it.
Now the way they present it, there are some good things about common core. But overall, it steals even more local control from communities. This is an outrageous power grap.
I think it IS a done deal. The state of ND is fed up with NCLB & even if Common Core doesn’t make it, we’ve got something similar they’re implementing called ND Mile. But at least THAT is a state initiative.
This Common Core BS has seriously made me continue considering other employment. I’m really really thinking about quitting teaching here in the next 5 years. I love teaching. I think I was born to do it. But this $hit is just getting more & more ridiculous & I didn’t think that was possible.

Badger40 on August 19, 2012 at 4:59 PM

but it also protects good ones from rotten parents who want them fired.

AngusMc on August 19, 2012 at 2:34 PM

Sounds about as smart as the zero tolerance rules in so many schools. It keeps the administration from having to actually think and man up.

CW on August 19, 2012 at 4:43 PM

It’s terrible. I have been lambasted by parents for having a challenging class & have been bullied by parents & the admin. for having high standards. No they are not unrealistic bcs if a kid does all of their work in my class & puts forth true effort, even if they flunk every test, they would pass with a D-. That’s passing & they get credit for it.
But you want a higher grade, go get it.
I provide the opportunity to learn. And so many of these parents think I should award an A in the entire course for effort. I award the A for competency & proficiency above & beyond.
C is proficient as far as I am concerned.
And my principal is a sack about this crap. He will not inform me people are talking smack about me to him & the admin does not encourage parents to talk to the teacher.
In fact, my principal said “I can’t tell you who the parents are & they will not see you bcs it’s a concern you would take it out on their child in the classroom”.
Now mind you, this is what he says to ALL of the teachers. IT’s not just me bcs I have done such a thing.
We are being judged guilty without being able to defend ourselves with facts.
This is the environment I get to teach in.
The admin bullies the teachers, while at the same time paying for the Olweus bullying program bcs we have a bullying problem in screwl.
And my screwl is a small rural screwl. It’s terrible stuff & I have tried to do positive things own my own & with other teachers & no one cares to help us.
I just feel so helpless to do anything bcs no one cares.

Badger40 on August 19, 2012 at 5:05 PM

Badger40 is a prime example why getting rid of horrible gov’t programs and policies is so hard.

B/c even so called “conservatives” will defend the most far left policy, i.e. “tenure” for public employees and be against standardized tests, etc, when it will possibly have an effect on their own permanent paycheck and easy job where they have no accountability.

Sure, they’ll rationalize all day how the profession they chose is so much harder and worse then everyone elses job and why they should have special rules and never be held accountable, etc.

It’s a total lack of self awareness added to wanting to protect their own position on the gov’t teet.

We see it with ethanol, farm subsidies, and every other program.

Conservatives are as bad as liberals when it comes to their own little fiefdoms of gov’t largess.

Monkeytoe on August 19, 2012 at 6:09 PM

This is not an “interesting trend.” It is a disgusting trend.

It’s like the way businesses won’t hire people full time because if someone is hired full time, the business is forced to provide full benefits. So the solution by businesses is just to hire a lot of part time. Or it is like the solution of businesses to automate because paying sky-high minimum wage has become too exorbitant. Or it is like those who shelter their income in other countries because it’s too expensive to do business here. These are all linked by being symptoms of the ugly and weird contortions of our “free enterprise” system which is being destroyed by liberals on a quest to build their utopia.

It figures that Bloomberg would consider this a partial solution. He’s such a fascist jackass.

Burke on August 19, 2012 at 2:22 PM

Wow…. You just can’t cure stupid…

SWalker on August 19, 2012 at 6:11 PM

It figures that Bloomberg would consider this a partial solution. He’s such a fascist jackass.

Burke on August 19, 2012 at 2:22 PM

So stupid on so many levels. I’m no fan of Bloomberg, but not giving someone a permanent gov’t job is “fascist”? You truly are a few cards short of a deck.

Monkeytoe on August 19, 2012 at 6:13 PM

It’s a culture unlike virtually any other in the nation, where outrage greets the idea that competition for a job should result in the best candidates and that pay might be linked to performance.

A culture unlike any other–except the Mafia and Chicago public employees, at the risk of being redundant.

smellthecoffee on August 19, 2012 at 7:20 PM

Badger40 on August 19, 2012 at 5:05 PM

I feel your pain. I teach math.

But in a private school, where some folks think that good grades flow by virtue of their paying tuition.

Fortunately, I work with a principal with high standards as well, who has some serious eggs and supports the teachers.

How do you prevent pressure from other sources to change grades or make decisions not based on actual actions of students?

rob verdi on August 19, 2012 at 2:23 PM

You don’t need tenure to deal with that. You need leadership with a spine and great communication skills. Tenure just gives your administrators an excuse to be lame and not deal with these issues, which is why they have become so prominent over the years, I suppose.

I’ll take the private school environment with at-will employment every year for its autonomy and the opportunity to negotiate my own salary over a Borg-like system that guarantees continued employment of idiots and pays me off an interchangeable-parts-inspired grid any day.

pascelle on August 19, 2012 at 7:35 PM

I have mixed-emotions. Deserving teachers should get tenure. However, WHO decides which teacher is deserving, or not? After working in a school with a large percentage of “diverse” students, I still ask myself WHY teachers are always to blame for SOME students not achieving. Today, “homework” is viewed by parents as NOT NECESSARY, so only about one-third of the students in a classroom bring their finished homework back to school, on a regular basis. Homework is given as “reinforcement” of the new subject matter students learned each day. And teachers are blamed for little Johnny not understanding that “new concept!” Today, many parents are YOUNGER than ever before (consequences of the children-raising-children syndrome). Plus, MANY Hispanic parents take their children on “extended vacations” back to Mexico—sometimes for 2 and 3 months (USUALLY IN DECEMBER THRU FEBRUARY). And the teacher is EXPECTED to make sure those students “catch-up FAST,” when they return from their extended vacation, SO THEY WILL DO VERY WELL ON THE UPCOMING STATE TESTS! These are COMMON problems in our schools today—they ARE NOT the “exception!” I guarantee you, I WOULD NOT hold the teacher responsible for the “bad decisions” of PARENTS!

DixT on August 19, 2012 at 7:37 PM

Badger40 on August 19, 2012 at 5:05 PM

Having spent a few years in my former liberal life “giving back” by consulting for a major city superintendent, and having come away from the experience with disgust and regret, I want to say my heart goes out to teachers like Badger. Were there more like him, public schools would not be so all about unions, so worthless, so destructive as they are today. They would be about students.

petefrt on August 19, 2012 at 7:45 PM

Deserving teachers should get tenure.

DixT on August 19, 2012 at 7:37 PM

What’s the motivation for continued excellence once you have tenure? Sure, there are people out there who actually strive because they will accept no less from themselves, but I am afraid that that particular breed is becoming rarer every year.

pascelle on August 19, 2012 at 7:47 PM

But I am appalled at the faculty who decide to preach in their classroom of politics when they should be teaching Mathematics.

Very true. There’s a speech teacher who has little things all through the classroom saying things like “I think, therefore I am a democrat,” and the students tell me that does go after kids who say they’re republican. I try to keep my libertarianism and religion close to my hat, because I’m in a position of authority and either the students might try to parrot my beliefs in an attempt to suck up, or else they’ll try to argue against me because they’re in their rebellious phase, which takes away from classtime.

It’s a total lack of self awareness added to wanting to protect their own position on the gov’t teet.

I work in Texas, where the union protections are far fewer and I have seen teachers pushed out because they committed the sin of failing seniors. My colleagues and I have seen what teachers in other states get away with and for twice the pay we get. That’s not what the teachers here are arguing for. If I protect a student from bullying or hold a student to the rules, I like knowing that overzealous students/parents can’t come after me. And no, those examples are not hypothetical. This is not greed or narcissism on our parts. It’s protection from people who refuse to at least examine points of view other than their own.

kc-anathema on August 19, 2012 at 8:00 PM

The point of tenure is twofold-keep good faculty from going to other schools and to allow the instructor academic freedom.

This is really a university thing, though and doesn’t absolutely have to be in public schools. Continuing contract would be fine. I don’t think most workers really worry about losing their jobs from one year to the next any more or less than teachers do. Teachers do indeed lose their jobs all the time, and many with years and years in the system when positions (“teaching units”) and programs are cut.

Also, most school systems are not like NYC schools, but that must be ignored in order to push an anti-union, anti-public schools agenda, I get it. Most everywhere else insubordination, moral turpitude, poor performance, and so on WILL get teachers fired. It’s up to the administration to go through the procedures for addressing concerns and if the teacher still fails to measure up, they’re gone.

But, as with business, if said teacher is connected or somehow else “juiced in” then forgetaboutit.

Dr. ZhivBlago on August 19, 2012 at 8:32 PM

Conservatives are as bad as liberals when it comes to their own little fiefdoms of gov’t largess.

Monkeytoe on August 19, 2012 at 6:09 PM

Years ago, I remember Jim Philips (talk show radio host, Orlando) was going on about some story I can’t remember about some jackass principal. What stuck with me all this time is when Jim said, “These principals treat these schools as their own personal fiefdoms.” LOL

Yeah, Mr./Ms. X was such an awesoooooooome teacher that they regrettably left the classroom they so loved so they could keep track of janitors and budgets.

Many of these principals were not competent classroom teachers to begin with. An incompetent electrician is not going to grow a multi-million dollar electrical repair business, for example. But with government you can get away with much…very much an Old Boy system.

Dr. ZhivBlago on August 19, 2012 at 8:40 PM

This Common Core BS has seriously made me continue considering other employment. I’m really really thinking about quitting teaching here in the next 5 years. I love teaching. I think I was born to do it. But this $hit is just getting more & more ridiculous & I didn’t think that was possible.

Me too.

InTheBellyoftheBeast on August 19, 2012 at 11:14 PM

Changes

Turn and face the strain? :)

I have mixed-emotions. Deserving teachers should get tenure.

DixT on August 19, 2012 at 7:37 PM

If a private institution wants to create some strange professional concept and call it “Tenure,” I think they should be able to. In the abstract, I’m not sure anyone “deserves” a life-time guaranteed check, though.

Axe on August 20, 2012 at 6:24 AM

I work in Texas, where the union protections are far fewer and I have seen teachers pushed out because they committed the sin of failing seniors. My colleagues and I have seen what teachers in other states get away with and for twice the pay we get. That’s not what the teachers here are arguing for. If I protect a student from bullying or hold a student to the rules, I like knowing that overzealous students/parents can’t come after me. And no, those examples are not hypothetical. This is not greed or narcissism on our parts. It’s protection from people who refuse to at least examine points of view other than their own.

kc-anathema on August 19, 2012 at 8:00 PM

Every job has its difficulties. And, sometimes life is unfair. Every job has politics, every job has people who get advanced who don’t deserve it, every job has lousy bosses.

Teachers do not deserve special protection any more than anyone else.

You prove my point. Even conservatives get myopia when talking about things that affect themselves and want the gov’t to give them special benefits not enjoyed by anyone else.

You can come up with a million anecdotes about how some teacher your knew, or you yourself were treated unfairly. So what? I can come up with a million as well about non-teachers in any industry suffering the same fate.

Teachers need to grow up and stop acting like their students – always complaining that “life’s not fair” and demanding special treatment.

Please.

Monkeytoe on August 20, 2012 at 8:06 AM

If a private institution wants to create some strange professional concept and call it “Tenure,” I think they should be able to. In the abstract, I’m not sure anyone “deserves” a life-time guaranteed check, though.

Axe on August 20, 2012 at 6:24 AM

that’s fine – but we are talking about public schools.

One of the problems that the teachers on this thread don’t understand is the unintended consequences of “tenure” and the inability to fire anyone and the inability to hold anyone accountable. In such situations, bad/problem employees get transferred through promotion. If you can’t get rid of a problem through firing or demotion – then you use your only available option – promotion. That is one of the reasons that school administrators are typically so terrible.

Another interesting facet of this is that the individuals who become administrators tend to be those who swallow the union’s line about teachers completely and also swallow all the other b.s. educational theory that goes around as various fads. Thus, these administrators, who are supposed to “negotiate” with the unions and protect the taxpayers/managements interest – typically give the union everything it wants. Which is why we have legacy contracts giving teachers outrageous pay, benefits, perks, etc.

Anyone (from the outside, who hasn’t drank the “education” kool-aid) who sees how a school district is truly run, would be appalled. No business would last a day being run as poorly as a school district. From mismanagement of both personnel and money, to disorganization, to juvenile philosophies, it is truly a sight to behold.

Monkeytoe on August 20, 2012 at 8:14 AM

This is really a university thing, though and doesn’t absolutely have to be in public schools. Continuing contract would be fine. I don’t think most workers really worry about losing their jobs from one year to the next any more or less than teachers do. Teachers do indeed lose their jobs all the time, and many with years and years in the system when positions (“teaching units”) and programs are cut.

This really isn’t very true. Most teachers are there for life. Go into any school and you will find teachers that have taught in that school for 20 years. Teachers very rarely lose their jobs.

Even the teachers on this thread who claim that they know teachers who were fired for failing a student, etc. I would put all my money, my house and everything else I own on a bet that I could go to their school and find that turnover at the school for teachers (not counting budget cuts, which are a different subject) is less than 1% a year, if that.

Next they’ll respond and say that the schools hide the firings as “budget cuts”. So, we’ll go round and round.

The idea that a high school teacher or middle school teacher needs more job protection than any other kind of employee in America is absurd.

Monkeytoe on August 20, 2012 at 8:19 AM

This Common Core BS has seriously made me continue considering other employment. I’m really really thinking about quitting teaching here in the next 5 years. I love teaching. I think I was born to do it. But this $hit is just getting more & more ridiculous & I didn’t think that was possible.

Me too.

InTheBellyoftheBeast on August 19, 2012 at 11:14 PM

You are not alone in not liking your job. I have never enjoyed my chosen profession. I just have not been able to figure out a way to earn an equivalent living doing anything else.

I doubt many people truly enjoy their work. That is a fallacy that started in the 60′s I think – the idea that you are supposed to love your job.

Monkeytoe on August 20, 2012 at 4:00 PM

Homeschool. Watch thee documentary Indoctrination by Collin Gunn.

samuelrylander on August 20, 2012 at 5:49 PM

A local school district near me in Illinois has found the solution to this issue. No new teachers are allowed to achieve tenure. They hire you on for 3 years and then let you go. The last time I checked, Illinois graduated 15,000 B.A. in Education majors in a given year but only had 7,500 jobs for them, so there’s plenty of new teachers to choose from. After a while all the tenured teachers will be gone and they’ll have no tenured ones.

RonF on August 22, 2012 at 2:56 PM

Here’s how to deal with this. Close all the public schools. Lease them to companies/organizations that want to start up private/charter schools. Issue a voucher to the amount of what the School district spends per capita to the parents of each school age child. Public education is supported, as the public pays for the education of all children. But the public gets out of the business of operating schools. The charter schools can pay teachers anything they want and set the terms of contracts any way they want. If teachers want to unionize, they go through the same process that auto workers or anyone else does – in the fact of a market that has plenty of people waiting to step in and do their jobs.

RonF on August 22, 2012 at 2:59 PM

Teaches do have a point about the parents. If a kid comes to school with no food in his stomach, inadequate or inappropriate clothing, health problems that there’s been no care for, homework not done because he stayed up all night watching TV or playing video games or ball, then he’s not ready to learn and there’s not a lot that a teacher can do about that.

RonF on August 22, 2012 at 3:04 PM