Does Ryan have a “Catholic problem”?
posted at 6:31 pm on August 19, 2012 by Ed Morrissey
That question has come at me several times in the nine days since Paul Ryan joined the Republican ticket as Mitt Romney’s nominee — and not meant in the same way that JFK had a “Catholic problem” in 1960. People wondering about Ryan’s relationship with Catholic voters usually results from Ryan’s attempts to restructure federal spending, or his supposed devotion to Ayn Rand. The last question is easiest to answer, since I’ve read Rand and admired the ideas in Atlas Shrugged while rejecting completely the philosophies of objectivism and atheism Rand embraced. One hardly needs to be an atheist to appreciate limited government, especially after the HHS contraception mandate being imposed on religious organizations and charities. Reading Atlas Shrugged and appreciating the wisdom of limited government is not an excommunicating act in the Catholic Church, I assure you.
What about Ryan’s budget? It’s no secret that liberals dislike it, although some conservatives might wonder why, considering the moderate approach Ryan took toward deficit and entitlement reform. Our colleague Kate Hicks notices a new group of Catholics who want Ryan to have a change of heart … in the middle of an election:
It’s the ultimate in Catholic double standards: a website called www.PrayForPaulsChangeOfHeart.org launched this week, calling for Catholics to pray that he abandons his Path to Prosperity budget in favor of something more in line with the Church’s social justice teachings. If you click around, you can also find a page with one sentence requesting prayers for Vice President Joe Biden, noted adamant supporter of the pro-choice cause. (It says nothing of Kathleen Sebelius, whose Mass attendance doesn’t exactly jive with her record ofeschewing established Catholic doctrine.)
In condemning Ryan’s budget, the site pulls from the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops’ letter to Ryan, which outlines the criteria the Church feels a Catholic policymaker ought to consider when crafting budgetary policy …
Of course, it’s very easy for a Catholic capitalist to dispute each of these claims – first and foremost, how does it serve the poor if the government continues down its current path to bankruptcy? – and this potential for argument creates a crucial distinction between budgetary policy and life issues. A budget has room for interpretation, and there are different ways to construct the social safety net; abortion, however, is a clear-cut issue, a literal matter of life or death.
So I’m going to be a little blunter about it: the Catholic Church needs to shut up about Paul Ryan’s budget.
Well, I’m not going to go that far, because this group isn’t the Catholic Church. It’s a small group of the laity — in fact, it might be just one person with an amateurish website, one that offers no explanation of whether the owner of the site is even Catholic at all. The act of offering a Rosary prayer for the “Conversion of Representative Paul Ryan” (one of the events listed on the main page) comes close to the sin of judging another person’s standing with God, something that a proper Catholic would recognize as dangerous ground. One can certainly judge the standing of a member within the faith (although that’s best left to pastors and bishops), but “conversion” strongly implies that the petitioner doesn’t consider Ryan a real Catholic. I’m skeptical of this website being anything more significant than someone’s idea of gadflyism.
My good friend Deacon Greg Kandra notes a somewhat more established group in the laity supporting Barack Obama, and their shift in emphasis from 2008 as “pro-life” in support of Obama to an economic message in 2012, presumably in response to Ryan’s selection as Romney’s running mate:
Catholics for Obama has launched its 2012 initiative with a focus on economic issues, in an apparent shift from its 2008 presentation of the presidential candidate as “pro-life.”
“We endorse the President because of his tireless focus on economic security for middle-class families,” the national co-chairs of Catholics for Obama wrote in an Aug. 13 letter, kicking off their effort to target a key voting bloc in the closely contested election.
Proclaiming their commitment “to our faith and our country,” the 21 signers devoted much of their letter to jobs and the economy, along with a variety of foreign policy items which have been seldom-mentioned in the presidential campaign. ….
The letter cited the Catholic teaching “that every human being is made in the image of God,” as a warning against Republican policies that the signers said “would shred our nation’s compassionate safety net” by “gutting” social assistance programs.
Here, though, we have no real change in status. These same accusations against Republicans were also offered as secondary arguments in 2008 by this group, and are made every electoral cycle by liberal Catholics. Ryan’s not going to win their vote simply by sitting in the same pews, but that’s not the same as arguing that Ryan damages Romney’s Catholic draw by being on the ticket.
The key question of whether Ryan’s budget violates his faith gets addressed best by the man who has the authority to speak on Ryan’s standing in the church — his bishop. Bishop Robert C. Morlino addressed this accusation in a column on Thursday to members of the Diocese of Madison, instructing that Catholic social teaching involves both solidarity (with the poor) and subsidiarity — the principle that support for the poor should come from the sources closest to them, the individual members of the church, or the local communities. Where “intrinsic evil” is not involved, the political solutions for the ills of the world should come from the laity, and not the church itself:
In these most fundamental matters, a well-formed Catholic conscience, or the well-formed conscience of a person of good will, simply follows the conclusions demanded by the ecology of human nature and the reasoning process. A Catholic conscience can never take exception to the prohibition of actions which are intrinsically evil. Nor may a conscience well-formed by reason or the Catholic faith ever choose to vote for someone who clearly, consistently, persistently promotes that which is intrinsically evil.
However, a conscience well-formed according to reason or the Catholic faith, must also make choices where intrinsic evil is not involved. How best to care for the poor is probably the finest current example of this, though another would be how best to create jobs at a time when so many are suffering from the ravages of unemployment. In matters such as these, where intrinsic evil is not involved, the rational principles of solidarity and subsidiarity come into play. The principle of solidarity, simply stated, means that every human being on the face of the earth is my brother and my sister, my “neighbor” in the biblical sense. At the same time, the time-tested best way for assisting our neighbors throughout the world should follow the principle of subsidiarity. That means the problem at hand should be addressed at the lowest level possible — that is, the level closest to the people in need. That again, is simply the law of human reason.
That doesn’t mean that Catholics have to like Ryan’s budget; there are plenty of areas of debate that it produces, just as any complex public policy will do. It isn’t a matter of Ryan’s Catholicism, though, and Bishop Morlino is particularly emphatic when it comes to those who claim that in the debate:
It was no shock at all for me to learn that our diocesan native son, Paul Ryan, had been chosen to be a candidate for the Vice Presidency of the United States. I am proud of his accomplishments as a native son, and a brother in the faith, and my prayers go with him and especially with his family as they endure the unbelievable demands of a presidential campaign here in the United States. It is not for the bishop or priests to endorse particular candidates or political parties. Any efforts on the part of any bishop or priest to do so should be set aside. And you can be assured that no priest who promotes a partisan agenda is acting in union with me or with the Universal Church. …
As one looks at issues such as the two mentioned above and seeks to apply the principles of solidarity and subsidiarity, Catholics and others of good will can arrive at different conclusions. These are conclusions about the best means to promote the preferential option for the poor, or the best means to reach a lower percentage of unemployment throughout our country. No one is contesting here anyone’s right to the basic needs of food, clothing, shelter, healthcare, etc. Nor is anyone contesting someone’s right to work and so provide for self and family. However there can be difference according to how best to follow the principles which the Church offers.
Making decisions as to the best political strategies, the best policy means, to achieve a goal, is the mission of lay people, not bishops or priests. As Pope Benedict himself has said, a just society and a just state is the achievement of politics, not the Church. And therefore Catholic laymen and women who are familiar with the principles dictated by human reason and the ecology of human nature, or non-Catholics who are also bound by these same principles, are in a position to arrive at differing conclusions as to what the best means are for the implementation of these principles — that is, “lay mission” for Catholics.
Thus, it is not up to me or any bishop or priest to approve of Congressman Ryan’s specific budget prescription to address the best means we spoke of. Where intrinsic evils are not involved, specific policy choices and political strategies are the province of Catholic lay mission. But, as I’ve said, Vice Presidential Candidate Ryan is aware of Catholic Social Teaching and is very careful to fashion and form his conclusions in accord with the principles mentioned above. Of that I have no doubt. (I mention this matter in obedience to Church Law regarding one’s right to a good reputation.)
So what does constitute the criteria the church uses to decide when to weigh in on policy matters? Morlino is also emphatic on what constitutes intrinsic evil:
However, the formation of conscience regarding particular policy issues is different depending on how fundamental to the ecology of human nature or the Catholic faith a particular issue is. Some of the most fundamental issues for the formation of a Catholic conscience are as follows: sacredness of human life from conception to natural death, marriage, religious freedom and freedom of conscience, and a right to private property.
Violations of the above involve intrinsic evil — that is, an evil which cannot be justified by any circumstances whatsoever. These evils are examples of direct pollution of the ecology of human nature and can be discerned as such by human reason alone. Thus, all people of good will who wish to follow human reason should deplore any and all violations in the above areas, without exception. The violations would be: abortion, euthanasia and physician-assisted suicide, same-sex marriage, government-coerced secularism, and socialism.
The answer to whether Ryan has a “Catholic problem” in terms of gaining or losing Catholic votes for the GOP will only be answered in the exit polls after the election. Without question, though, Ryan does not have a problem with the Catholic Church or its teachings, as Ryan’s own bishop makes plainly clear. While the laity and the ordained may have issues with Ryan’s budget proposals, they don’t rise to the level of intrinsic evil, and so those individuals and groups that engage in the debate over budgetary matters speak for themselves, and not for the church itself. As far as offering Rosaries for conversion, we Catholics should be doing that for the whole world, and in particular for an end to abortion and the other intrinsic evils Bishop Morlino notes in his excellent column.
Addendum: Via ConservativeLA on Twitter, Antony Davies and Kristina Antolin take up the opposite argument — that government programs represent involuntary coercion and therefore cannot be acceptable to Catholics:
The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops has long supported government interference in the economy as a means to help the poor. But we suspect the bishops haven’t fully thought this through: If God really did favor a top-down approach to poverty reduction, why wouldn’t He establish a government with the power to wipe away poverty on demand instead of leaving things to chance and the possibility that someone like Mr. Ryan would come along and mess up His plans?
Perhaps we dehumanize the poor when we treat them as nothing more than problems to be solved, and we dehumanize the rich when we treat them as wallets to be picked.
Wealth and poverty are catalysts for bringing the rich and the poor together in community, and community is the hallmark of the church’s mission on Earth. Government is not community. Government is one of community’s tools, a coercive one we use when it is necessary to force people to behave in ways they would not otherwise behave voluntarily.
But that word—voluntarily—is key, and it’s where Mr. Ryan’s religious detractors go awry: Charity can only be charity when it is voluntary. Coerced acts, no matter how beneficial or well-intentioned, cannot be moral. If we force people to give to the poor, we have stripped away the moral component, reducing charity to mere income redistribution. And if one really is as good as the other, the Soviets demonstrated long ago that it can be done far more efficiently without the trappings of church and religion.
While I agree with their argument on the policy merits, I think this overshoots the mark, too. Government programs and their funding through taxation are involuntary once passed into law. However, the democratic processes in our republic are intended to establish self-government, which derives from the consent of the governed. In such a system, one cannot declare that they will not abide by laws with which they disagree, unless those laws become tyrannical or (in the Catholic case) impose an “intrinsic evil.” The passage of entitlement programs has been part of that process of self-government, as are the debates on their current funding and need for reform, and which forms reform should take. There is nothing intrinsically immoral or amoral about systems of self-government creating legitimate safety net programs for the truly needy, even if tax dollars go to their funding, although the relative merits of such programs vis-a-vis crowding out private charity, the scope of the programs, and the best level of governance for tending such systems are also legitimate issues for debate among Catholics and non-Catholics alike.
There are many reasons to believe that the policies of the nanny state will deliver more misery than it relieves — Bishop Morlino refers to that in his column — but that is a measure of policy effectiveness, which as Bishop Morlino states does not directly relate to church doctrine. The USCCB acknowledges a wide variety of fair-minded opinion on how best to deliver on Catholic social teachings through public policy, and exhorts only that public policy should be formed with the needs of the poor and infirm in mind to deliver the best possible solutions to their circumstances. Just as liberals should not claim Ryan’s efforts to be outside of Catholic moral thought, we should be careful not to unfairly delegitimize others in the Catholic community who honestly see other solutions for social ills as more effective.
As I wrote before, the Catholic Church goes far beyond political agendas, and encompasses a wide diversity of thought. Attempting to politically pigeonhole people on the basis of faith is usually a recipe for failure. In my opinion, a system on track to put a third of the citizens and residents of the world’s richest nation on federal welfare programs outside of Social Security and Medicare (technically contribution programs) is a nation that is taking too much capital out of systems that would otherwise expand the sources of real prosperity and improved living standards, and is diluting the ability to assist the truly needy of our nation. The need to reform such a system to return capital to those who can expand prosperity and raise living standards while making assistance to the needy more effective and efficient is well within the purpose, motives, and spirit of Catholic social teaching — but I’m not going to be arrogant enough to claim that my perspective is the only one that fits within those parameters.
Update: The reference to the near occasion of sinfulness in the way the website demands the “conversion” of Ryan comes straight from Scripture. When Jesus said, “Judge not, lest ye be judged,” He meant that to arrogate to ourselves the authority to judge the status of another’s soul in relation to God was to infringe on God’s prerogative — and to operate far above one’s pay grade. We can argue whether one’s policies fit within Catholic doctrine, especially when it comes to intrinsic evils such as abortion, but we have no more standing to judge the status of Nancy Pelosi’s soul than Paul Ryan’s. As Jesus taught, we’re better off focusing on the status of our own souls and our relation to God.
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Why would a government agency be concerned about the content of prayers? Are they suggesting that prayers carry any sort of weight?
Hmmmm….
CurtZHP on May 17, 2013 at 4:40 PM
how many elections, possibly even the presidential, would have been different without team Obama’s suppression efforts.
rob verdi on May 17, 2013 at 4:40 PM
Stalinesque.
kingsjester on May 17, 2013 at 4:42 PM
Thank you. I have been emailing this question to news organizations and no one brings this up.
These were mom-and-pop groups that were being suppressed.
esr1951 on May 17, 2013 at 4:42 PM
Remember America? sigh.
Jackalope on May 17, 2013 at 4:43 PM
Oh, dear GOD, seriously?
Lily on May 17, 2013 at 4:43 PM
This guy is not even pretending to be contrite.
This is a thuggish capo, who made a deal with the devil, for full retirement benneis.
Split in a million pieces, Miller and your bosses, you politbureau thuggs of the world.
Leftards, you toads, you should all fight with us against tyranny like this, from any source, alas.
Schadenfreude on May 17, 2013 at 4:44 PM
Atheists don’t pray. So, are they off the hook?
Or, are we headed for the concept of ‘thought crimes’?
Remember, now — this sits just fine with all our trolls and other liberals.
Liam on May 17, 2013 at 4:45 PM
They simply need to know to which God the prayers are directed and that the petitions carry no negativity regarding the current WH admin. Words of praise, thanksgivings for and blessings on Barry probably do carry some sort of weight.
hawkeye54 on May 17, 2013 at 4:45 PM
What next, taping confessions?
SailorMark on May 17, 2013 at 4:45 PM
I wonder if the Department Of Jihad’s raid on Gibson Guitars was part 2 of the thuggery of Islamic Retribution Service ??
burrata on May 17, 2013 at 4:46 PM
I think it is long past the time for the House GOP to pass a bill eliminating the IRS and replacing it with a 10% Flat Tax…
… Pass it, and send it to the Senate and Obowma to chew on while they open the doors and invite anyone who the IRS targeted to come before the world and tell their story.
While people are testifying how the IRS acted like the Ghestapo, let Harry Reid and Obowma make the case why we have to keep the agency…
Seven Percent Solution on May 17, 2013 at 4:47 PM
I haven’t seen Elliot Gould in anything in a while. If someone in showbiz dares to make a movie about this, he could be cast as his doppelganger, Mr. Miller.
Doughboy on May 17, 2013 at 4:47 PM
Make sure you send this to all you know, lefties too.
Make sure you send this too.
Obama did for Nixon, the TEA party and against Obama’care’ more than anyone could have imagines.
Schadenfreude on May 17, 2013 at 4:48 PM
Don’t gots no tahm heah ats da
IRSKGB fo’ dat Foist Ammendmun’.viking01 on May 17, 2013 at 4:48 PM
And, these are the same jackwagons who go on and on about the Separation of Church and State.
kingsjester on May 17, 2013 at 4:49 PM
I keep praying. And yet, DC keeps growing.
When, O Lord, will Liberty overcome Mammon…
JohnGalt23 on May 17, 2013 at 4:50 PM
The content of my prayers, inter alia, was lately “Dear Lord, expose the evil this man and his is engaged in,” and I was apparently heard. No, seriously.
Akzed on May 17, 2013 at 4:50 PM
As far as I’m concerned, the only acceptable outcome is this guy and his associates in orange jumpsuits.
CurtZHP on May 17, 2013 at 4:50 PM
Hey, if you are going to violate rights of free speech, right of freedom of assembly, right to address government… then freedom of religion is fair game, too!
Might as well just violate ALL of the 1st Amendment in one go… saves trouble that way.
ajacksonian on May 17, 2013 at 4:50 PM
This pandora’s box is never going to be closed, and sholdn’t, ever.
Get rid of the IRS or it will eliminate you.
Schadenfreude on May 17, 2013 at 4:51 PM
someone praying called JohnGalt, I imagine you have thought about this a lot. (I am not being sarcastic, I think you really have thought about things a lot.)
rob verdi on May 17, 2013 at 4:51 PM
Beating them out of Conservatives, and Conservatives only.
Liam on May 17, 2013 at 4:51 PM
Lookie here
Schadenfreude on May 17, 2013 at 4:51 PM
They should have responded, “Psalm 109:8″. That would have been a great way to get denied tax exempt status and audited.
The Rogue Tomato on May 17, 2013 at 4:52 PM
for the record, I am a happy Catholic who considers Ayn Rand one of the more astute writers of the 20th century.
rob verdi on May 17, 2013 at 4:52 PM
SO if you are on the phone with the IRS and are not getting anywhere, and ask to talk to their supervisor — you get an even bigger idiot on the phone.
Dasher on May 17, 2013 at 4:52 PM
This completely undercuts the understaffed/overworked argument.
If you have too much work to do, asking for tiny details like this just adds to your workload. Creating paperwork to go through is not a way to make yor staff kor efficient.
MayBee on May 17, 2013 at 4:53 PM
I want to see this jackass frogmarched into a federal court.
slickwillie2001 on May 17, 2013 at 4:53 PM
Seven Percent Solution on May 17, 2013 at 4:53 PM
I suspect they went after small groups because they felt they had a better chance at getting away with it than if they targetted large groups with access to lawyers.
BadgerHawk on May 17, 2013 at 4:54 PM
It will come in God’s time. The Almighty knows what He’s doing.
Liam on May 17, 2013 at 4:54 PM
This news fits in perfectly with Obama’s repeatedly defining the First Amendment as protecting “freedom of worship” rather than the free expression of religion.
englishqueen01 on May 17, 2013 at 4:54 PM
And, of course, if the group had responded with a prayer along the lines of say, this:
“Alhamdu Lillahi Rabbil Aalameen Ar Rahamaanir Raheem Maaliki Yaomid Deen iyyaaka Na’budu Wa iyyaaka Nasta’een. Ihdina as-Siraat al-Mustaqeem Siraat al-Lazeena An-Amta Alaihim Ghairil Maghdhoobi Alaihim Walaa adh-Dhaalleen”
de rigueur on May 17, 2013 at 4:55 PM
The most non-reported story is that the thugs intimidated the TEA party into silence after their success in 2010, right until after the election of Nov. 2012.
This is the story, along with “why was Stevens in Benghazi on the anniv. of 9/11?” — media, you fools, have you no professional curiosity left? Suffocate from consuming Obama’s shit, most all of you.
Schadenfreude on May 17, 2013 at 4:55 PM
he looks like a Marxist
commodore on May 17, 2013 at 4:58 PM
The Tony Bennett look-alike makes a mockery of all government, the thuggish swine.
Obama owns him, in full.
Schadenfreude on May 17, 2013 at 4:59 PM
What’s that saying..
Throw your money in the air and whatever God wants, he keeps.
The IRS certainly would want to know about that donation..
/
Electrongod on May 17, 2013 at 4:59 PM
Exactly. Same reason the IRS goes after small businesses, because its known the time and resources are not available to them to fight back effectively.
Not to mention, it does distract and tie up time and financial resources of these groups that could be spent on their objectives, and it’s hoped it shuts the weaker ones down.
hawkeye54 on May 17, 2013 at 5:00 PM
Sorry for the length, but there is no way to cut it without gutting the meaning and exquisite pointing out of hypocrisy…
Resist We Much on May 17, 2013 at 5:00 PM
Winner!
Stoic Patriot on May 17, 2013 at 5:01 PM
What has not been learned, yet.
Schadenfreude on May 17, 2013 at 5:01 PM
Doug Hagmann has a point.
As the details of Benghazi are beginning to emerge from “whistleblowers” and the murderous events are being rightfully elevated to the proper realm of criminal conspiracy, other scandals have suddenly seemed to erupt, almost as if cued by a complicit choreographer. Most egregious misdeeds of the Internal Revenue Service, for example, that allegedly targeted Conservative groups, from 501(c)3 organizations to any group with Tea party or Constitution in their names, were suddenly “revealed.”
Other scandals of lesser significance, but nonetheless poking at the embers of public ire and intolerance are popping up as well. Watching the people who are reading the multiple news headlines on various news aggregator sites are like watching spectators at Wimbledon, as their heads move from side to side as they follow the ball in play. The white noise of new problems are constantly erupting, resulting in a feeding frenzy in the waters surrounding the Executive branch.
While fascinating to watch, has anyone stopped to consider that the process of chumming the waters with a flurry of cascading news events, combined with a docu-dump of 100 pages of Benghazi e-mails is actually a methodically orchestrated diversion? What is it we are not supposed to be seeing amid the white noise of new controversies of varying values? Are we being told that we’re aboard the Queen Mary and being directed to look over the port side at the antics of the sharks attracted by the chumming of the waters while we’re actually aboard the RMS Lusitania sailing through the Irish Channel on the afternoon of May 7, 1915? Meanwhile, a torpedo fired from a German U-boat is traveling directly for our starboard side, and is about to take the entire ship down.
Like a levy that has been suspiciously breached, the informational flood created by these news events is without recent precedent. The timing of this flood is of particularly critical importance. The headlines are diverting our attention away from a critical window of investigative value relating to Benghazi. Could it be that we’re seeing a form of force majeure being implemented to overwhelm and distract us from something far more important to truth seekers and consequently, much more lethal to Obama’s second term? Perhaps the Cloward-Piven strategy adapted and modified for the modern news cycles of today?
wyntre9 on May 17, 2013 at 5:03 PM
He doesn’t, but Obama looks like the result of sex btw. Lenin and Mussolini.
Schadenfreude on May 17, 2013 at 5:04 PM
~Just kicks back quietly while sipping Arizona Green Tea with honey and ginseng, watching you kick liberal azz without even trying~
Liam on May 17, 2013 at 5:07 PM
I guess we know that there aren’t any atheists in the IRS. Why would they care who is praying what if it doesn’t do anyone any good.
in fact, they must all be good believing Christians. Otherwise they could just as well ask, “Which voodoo dolls do you stick pins in or where is your coven located?”
Lily on May 17, 2013 at 5:10 PM
Resist We Much on May 17, 2013 at 5:00 PM
Read that this morning and agree 100%. Since then I have learned that they don’t believe it is inappropriate to inquire into the contents of prayers as well. Incredible.
txmomof6 on May 17, 2013 at 5:10 PM
“We’re praying that all the conservatives burn in hell, why?”
-501 granted! Congrats!
Bishop on May 17, 2013 at 5:11 PM
Good stuff on a Friday afternoon. TPers in the audience? By the way, this is a must see – Steve Martin imitates the press riding in a car with the Obama administration:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_akwHYMdbsM
stout77 on May 17, 2013 at 5:14 PM
New Steyn…
The Autocrat Accountants
Resist We Much on May 17, 2013 at 5:17 PM
Occam’s Razor. Could just be some* of Obama’s chickens coming home to roost.
*and by no means all
de rigueur on May 17, 2013 at 5:18 PM
If one believes God lives in the Whitehouse praying to anyone else is of course suspect. Blasphemy and all.
petunia on May 17, 2013 at 5:19 PM
I can’t believe the Barky administration is going into the weekend so vulnerable with nothing on defense.
They got nothing.
Also, re: Miller. Luke Russert said on MSNBC that the guy was “just winging it”, recognizing that “he’s the fall guy”, and that he seems resigned to the fact.
aquaviva on May 17, 2013 at 5:20 PM
They lost Peggy
Schadenfreude on May 17, 2013 at 5:21 PM
No, there is room for difference of opinion on foreign policy.
But to have what is essentially private police force who can aritarily investigate every facet of an individual’s life.–`
petunia on May 17, 2013 at 5:22 PM
Because unlike what people in DC and NY think its the grassroots that have the real influence on elections. 2010 showed that. It didn’t matter how much money the liberals and GOPE spent in the 2010 elections the grassroots overwhelmed them. There is nothing more powerful then when the people take to the streets like they did after Obamacare was rammed down our throats. The IRS/Obama understood this and these efforts by the IRS was to tamp down that grassroots movement.
Ask martin luther king jr, Gahdi and king gorge about the power of a people motivated to oust a thug ruler or thug laws.
unseen on May 17, 2013 at 5:24 PM
Yeah you can trust your government…
Just ask about the fair treatment the Branch Davidians got from the AFT and FBI at Waco…
Just ask Sam and Vicki Weaver about the due process they got when the FBI snipers blew their heads off…
The IRS can ask you about what you pray about, who your friends are, who you donate to, and if you don’t agree, when it comes time for that life saving operation your daughter needs, they control the medical treatment so they may deny it.
So get your mind right BOY. Toe the line
Kuffar on May 17, 2013 at 5:26 PM
Thx, Liam. :-)
Resist We Much on May 17, 2013 at 5:26 PM
Keyboard issues… Obama and his campaign really had a police force who could investigate and even could fine and imprison Americans, who have no recourse.
The story of the Obama administration could have been written by Kafka.
This IRS story is more than Benghazi… and we may or may not come to an agreement on that, but using taxing power and the threat of fines and jail and all that goes with it… that is long lasting that is Kafka like power.
This needs to bring this pretender down. Obama would never have won re-election if people knew the truth. If we only had a press.
petunia on May 17, 2013 at 5:26 PM
I think they lost a lot of the press. the press knows they have got down on their knees one too many times for Obama and they have lost all respe3ct by the american people. If they don’t turn on Obama during this scandal the American people might burn down the LA times.
unseen on May 17, 2013 at 5:27 PM
Just typical thugs. Bigger groups can afford lawyers. They are harder to push around. So the thugs focus on the most vulnerable, as thugs do.
There is no way to tell haw much these groups would have influenced the election. Some of them would surely have grown to significant size, and even the smaller would have played important roles in turning out the vote.
novaculus on May 17, 2013 at 5:28 PM
Yeah, I’d like to know the content of Obozo’s prayers. I imagine they begin with Allahu Akbar.
BeachBum on May 17, 2013 at 5:31 PM
Nothing but a hitman for Democrats. Get him in front of a grand jury.
pat on May 17, 2013 at 5:31 PM
I don’t understand why anyone is confused about them going after the newer, smaller groups. It’s always a better idea to kill the pups before they get big enough to become a real danger…
fabrexe on May 17, 2013 at 5:32 PM
That’s the sad part. As much as Rombo didn’t exactly excite the conservative crowd he didn’t lose by much; the turnout from these myriad small TP groups might have made the difference.
Bishop on May 17, 2013 at 5:32 PM
I can’t help but thinking the day that Obama invoked God to bless Planned Parenthood was the day that he invited judgment upon himself and his administration. It seems things starting going south for this administration after that point in time.
iceman1960 on May 17, 2013 at 5:33 PM
yeap and just look at two elections in 2010 the grassroots were out in force and they won a landslide. in 2012 Mitt’s team scorned the grassroots in favor of the “big money” and lost a very winnable elections.
The real power is the little people not the big whales. The big whales do nothing but pay the salaries of the consultants.
unseen on May 17, 2013 at 5:35 PM
That and the gun control loss showed Obama was a toothless tiger. Can’t remember which happened first.
unseen on May 17, 2013 at 5:36 PM
Wonder this time where he’s gone
Wonder if his mind gonna to stay
Ain’t no sunshine when he’s gone
And this White House ain’t got no throne
Anytime his mind goes away.
And I don’t know, I don’t know, I don’t know, I don’t know,
I don’t know, I don’t know, I don’t know, I don’t know, I don’t know,
I don’t know, I don’t know, I don’t know, I don’t know, I don’t know,
I don’t know, I don’t know, I don’t know, I don’t know, I don’t know,
I don’t know, I don’t know, I don’t know, I don’t know, I don’t know,
I don’t know, I don’t know,
Hey, I oughtta leave the stupid idiot alone
But ain’t no sunshine when his mind’s gone
J_Crater on May 17, 2013 at 5:38 PM
I still think that fascist is still the most likely.
uncommon sense on May 17, 2013 at 5:39 PM
after 2010 Obama understood 2012 would be a base election. he did everything he could to get his base to the polls and surpress the GOP’s base and like a little child Mitt’s team/gope went along with the MSM/dem talking point that their base was a problem and should be shunned in favor of the moderate vote. Obama played Mitt’s team like a fiddle and he used the fulll bullying power of the government to ensure those that didn’t fall for his BS were shut down.
unseen on May 17, 2013 at 5:39 PM
de rigueur on May 17, 2013 at 5:18 PM
Confess I don’t get the Occam’s Razor reference. What do you think is thew simplest theory?
wyntre9 on May 17, 2013 at 5:40 PM
I think it is long past the time for the House GOP to pass a bill eliminating the IRS and replacing it with a 10% Flat Tax…..”
Seven Percent Solution on May 17, 2013 at 4:47 PM
-
Indeed. I thought I was the only one…
If not now, when?
diogenes on May 17, 2013 at 5:40 PM
petunia,
So you think IRS is bigger than Benghazi?
wyntre9 on May 17, 2013 at 5:41 PM
So the religious establishment clause and the 1st Amendment protections for freedom of religion doesn’t apply to the IRS?
If a church applied to the IRS for tax-exempt status, and the IRS required it to disclose what prayers were recited and which hymns were sung in their service before granting it, Commissioner Miller wouldn’t see anything illegal with that?
Socratease on May 17, 2013 at 5:45 PM
The IRS asking about Tea Party members’ prayers? Well, maybe the Constitution says that Congress can’t make laws prohibiting the free exercise of religion, but maybe the IRS can, since it didn’t exist when the Constitution was written…
If Mr. Miller really wants to know about Tea Partiers’ prayers, maybe he should ask God! But maybe God isn’t happy with Mr. Miller these days…
Steve Z on May 17, 2013 at 5:45 PM
Bishop on May 17, 2013 at 5:32 PM
Yup. The evil genius of the POS handlers can’t be overstated. So for two years prior to the election they were working with the IRS to suppress Tea Party voter turnout.
I read somewhere that in 2012 the AA voter percentage turnout was much higher than non-AA while white turnout was down by 6-8 million.
Mission accomplished.
(Of course that does not excuse the stupidity of people who chose not to exercise their right to vote. They’re largely the reason we’re in this mess. Although voter fraud also played a big part, especially those districts where the POS got 150% of the voe without a single one for MR).
wyntre9 on May 17, 2013 at 5:46 PM
Let’s not forget that tax-cheat Timmy Geitner was Treasury Secretary until January, 2013.
wyntre9 on May 17, 2013 at 5:48 PM
Bot s/b big, but the IRS is understood by every single tax payer.
Schadenfreude on May 17, 2013 at 5:48 PM
The hog wants a bigger budget.
Schadenfreude on May 17, 2013 at 5:50 PM
Expect to hear many variations of “I cannot recall” during these and subsequent hearings.
Keith_Indy on May 17, 2013 at 5:52 PM
The hog should be roasted on a spit.
hawkeye54 on May 17, 2013 at 5:54 PM
Miller’s toupée is ridiculous.
Pork-Chop on May 17, 2013 at 5:55 PM
That evil genius has been propelling the POS up the political ladder with foul deeds from the very beginning to get him where he is today. Thy hit platinum with the resources the IRS provides them.
hawkeye54 on May 17, 2013 at 5:58 PM
The lefties at the IRS were doing what they love best…aborting baby political groups before they could, you know, cause trouble.
txmomof6 on May 17, 2013 at 6:03 PM
hawkeye54 on May 17, 2013 at 5:58 PM
Agree.
wyntre9 on May 17, 2013 at 6:03 PM
No, it cannot. Federal agencies are confined by the Constitution, too.
Resist We Much on May 17, 2013 at 6:05 PM
Not to mention the fool under it.
viking01 on May 17, 2013 at 6:07 PM
Occam’s Razor is the principle formulated by William of Ockham, 14th century, that states “Simplest explanations are the best.” Well, actually he said: “Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate– Entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily.”
saac Newton formulated it thus: “We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances.”
Fundamental principle of modern science (except for the global warmists/coolists/whoever): “When you have two competing theories that make exactly the same predictions, the simpler one is the better.”
Simplest theory for the perfect scandal storm: They’re all overripe. The truth will out, and is overdue to come out on most of these. So it’s all coming out at the same time. Something like that.
Oh, and bad timing on the IRS “leak”– nothing to do with deflecting for the State Dept. Left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing. Typical of a government that is, in the immortal words of David Axelrod, “too big.”
de rigueur on May 17, 2013 at 6:09 PM
That is one sorry looking pelt, ain’t it.
About the only thing that could make it more unconvincing is a chin strap.
CurtZHP on May 17, 2013 at 6:16 PM
Good point
gophergirl on May 17, 2013 at 6:19 PM
Miller’s performance reminded me of shampoo bottle directions:
Rinse.
Lather.
Repeat.
But morphed in my brain to:
Tar.
Feather.
Repeat.
fred5678 on May 17, 2013 at 6:55 PM
Is there anyone at Slate or who reads Slate that doesnt see this carnival show in Washington for what it is? That show today with the IG and the acting IRS chief was such a charade. Even Charlie Rangel a sitting tax cheat got in on the act feinging indignation. Their plan of course is to have this little show, fire this Miller guy, and then say see its fixed you can give the IRS your personal health information and trust they will not do anything malevolent with it. ROFLMAO!!!!!
paulsur on May 17, 2013 at 7:10 PM
I’m sure it’s just me but anyone notice that every single time these libs testify before congress they always have that condescending “I need the shit slapped out of me” look?
Note the air of superiority but when questioned they “don’t remember” much.
arnold ziffel on May 17, 2013 at 7:10 PM
Nope. He prays to Himself. In a mirror. Islam is just another convenient club to smash Western Civilization with.
The only Commandment the One believes in is “You shall have no other Gods before me” (the Third according to Exodus, the Seventh according to Deuteronomy).
Of course, in His case, He’s talking about Himself.
clear ether
eon
eon on May 17, 2013 at 9:45 PM
Here’s a convenient summary of the ones I have read about so far; there may be more.
AesopFan on May 18, 2013 at 1:26 AM
I don’t know what to think of Tingles.
It’s like the scene where John C. Reilly realizes that it was William Fichtner who saved his life when he got dragged over the side, snagged up in the fishing line.
“You can say what you want, but… I’m sure glad you know how to swim.
It’s all I can manage right now. I’ll work on it.”
Phone log from the studio NBC Producer: Someone get control of the guy running Matthew’s prompter!
papertiger on May 18, 2013 at 8:33 AM