Court rejects challenge to EPA E15 ethanol waiver

posted at 7:46 pm on August 18, 2012 by Jazz Shaw

If not predictable, this is certainly disappointing.

A federal appeals court Friday threw out a challenge by automakers and other groups to a new fuel with a higher blend of ethanol that could damage engines.

The U.S. Court of Appeals in a 2-1 decision rejected a suit brought by Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, Global Automakers, the Grocery Manufacturers Association, the oil industry and other groups that sought to overturn the Enviromental Protection Agency’s approval of E15 -a fuel that includes 15 percent ethanol.

The EPA shouldn’t be doing too much of an end zone dance here. The court didn’t even reject the argument against the waiver on the merits of the case. They kicked it out saying that the plaintiffs didn’t have the proper standing to bring the case in the first place. (How that works is something of a mystery.) You can read the full judgement here (.pdf file) if you’d care to sort it out for yourself.

We’ve known for some time now, as demonstrated by the findings of this Coordinating Research Council study among others, that E15 causes serious problems. The same people who manufacture the engines which have to burn these modified fuels have told us that as many as 5 million cars from 2001 and beyond could have their engines damaged by the hotter running fuel. Two manufacturers are already putting labels on their gas caps warning consumers that they can’t be held responsible for what may happen if they burn the higher blend gas. Smarter Fuel Future has provided you with a helpful graphic detailing just what the real cost of E15 will be to consumers.

Fisherman and other boating enthusiasts have been receiving warnings for years regarding the damage that ethanol blends do to marine engines. There are even popular lines of products available to help protect them. And yet, absent a more successful court challenge or action by Congress, (which should be happening aaaaaaaaaaany day now…) it looks like the EPA will get their way. Their mandate to force manufacturers to accept increasing percentages of “green” fuels is going hit consumers in the pocketbook unless they are given time for the technology to keep up with the changes.


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Comment pages: 1 2

I can’t believe we are now expected to be forced to not only burn food, but to use a fuel that destroys our automobile engine.

thatsafactjack on August 18, 2012 at 7:48 PM

Great, my a/c went out, no longer covered by warranty naturally, but should this witch’s brew find its way into the market, it’ll fry my engine. Wonderful. Spare an engine, comrade?

TQM38a on August 18, 2012 at 7:51 PM

Shut up proles! And get on the bus! You don’t NEED a private mode of transportation. That’s only for your BETTERS, and don’t you forget it!

GarandFan on August 18, 2012 at 7:51 PM

Reduction in food supply, destruction of personal transportation, forced medical regimens….

Sounds like population control to me.

BobMbx on August 18, 2012 at 7:54 PM

Can we just get rid of the counterproductive ethanol requirements and subsidies? It isn’t even reducing CO2 output (for those who care about that).

Count to 10 on August 18, 2012 at 7:56 PM

Just like the cash for clunker looting of the taxpayers the Regime using crooked judges seeks to force the Volt and other scam Gummint Motors purchases by gradually making gasoline an un-usable transportation fuel. Except for congressional and judicial limos, of course.

viking01 on August 18, 2012 at 7:59 PM

Without reading more than the article (not going to read a court decision on a Saturday night unless I’m getting paid) it seems the makers lost because they aren’t being harmed. Car owners can still sue as their property is being harmed.

But of course burning our food is idiotic.

rbj on August 18, 2012 at 8:00 PM

This is the reason why I moved to premium fuel mix several years ago – well that and the paint thinner scam of recent times.

OldEnglish on August 18, 2012 at 8:03 PM

Burn ‘em out metaphorically speaking.

Mitt you’ll get elected by a thunder wave if you run against the EPA overreaches and blast the partisan nature of the courts….

Bark called out SCOTUS it is the new normal.

harlekwin15 on August 18, 2012 at 8:03 PM

I am all in presuming they create subsidies for engine repair…you know, like that successful Obunglecare…

hillsoftx on August 18, 2012 at 8:04 PM

So how do I get reimbursed for a destroyed engine? I so love people regulating everything I do or don’t do, yet they lack expertise in rules they ram up us.

arnold ziffel on August 18, 2012 at 8:04 PM

Time to get the EPA defunded. Now.

john1schn on August 18, 2012 at 8:04 PM

…just wait for Roberts!

KOOLAID2 on August 18, 2012 at 8:07 PM

Back in the 1980′s, I owned my own business working of large yachts in So. CA. Most of these boats had twin diesel engines. Calif, in its infinite wisdom, made fuel manufactures change the diesel fuel formula. “This will clean up the air, and will not harm your engines”, was their mantra. All of a sudden, the seals in the fuel pumps started failing, dramatically increasing the oil level in the engines’ sumps. I also heard through the mechanics’ grapevine that the same thing was happening to land-based diesel trucks. I made a ton of money rebuilding fuel pumps and replacing seals. Guess who paid for all of these UNNECESSARY repairs? The tax payers of California! Surprised??!! I just sent the bills for all labor and parts to some office in Sacramento. There was never any questions raised, nor amounts questioned. I SEE THIS HAPPENING ALL OVER AGAIN, BUT ON A NATIONAL SCALE. WHO WILL PAY FOR REPAIRS TO MY ENGINES? WHO WILL PAY FOR MY TIME WHILE MY TWO CARS ARE IN THE SHOP? WHO WILL PAY FOR THE RENTAL CARS MY WIFE AND I WILL NEED? MULTIPLY THAT BY MILLIONS OF GAS VEHICLES IN THE US, AND YOU CAN SEE THE CHAOS THAT WILL ENSUE.

conservative educator on August 18, 2012 at 8:10 PM

Excellent!!!

This makes the bet all or nothing!! No mushiness !!
Just like the Supreme Court did with ObamaCare, it puts the onus on Congress to fix it. Now all these groups have to bring this issue to each legislator that voted for it.

P.S. I hope the ethanol industry is paying $.33/ear like us consumers.

KenInIL on August 18, 2012 at 8:12 PM

Hey, this is great! Think of all the new engines we’ll have to buy! And Detroit will benefit from all the new engine-building business they’ll get! It will be great for the economy!

/broken window engine fallacy…

ZenDraken on August 18, 2012 at 8:14 PM

Kill the EPA!

txhsmom on August 18, 2012 at 8:17 PM

conservative educator on August 18, 2012 at 8:10 PM

Anyone who runs diesel engines these days knows something undesirable has happened to modern fuel blends.
It has cost us a lot of $$ in filters & additives to try & get rid of the water & algae in our tanks.
We’ve had 2 little Honda engines fail til we stopped using ethanol blends in them. This was probably 8 years ago.
I see some states don’t give you a choice, is that true?

Another thing about diesel fuel: equipment doesn’t run like it used to anymore. Here in ND diesel engines ran fine in the really sub zero temps.
Now when it’s 30+ below zero you can’t get the tractor to hardly stay running.
These people are a$$hat$ & they all make my life miserable.
EFFTARDS! Quit f%^&ing with stuff!
Arg!

Badger40 on August 18, 2012 at 8:18 PM

Their mandate to force manufacturers to accept increasing percentages of “green” fuels

There is nothing “green” about ethanol. I takes more fossil fuel energy to make ethanol than is contained in ethanol. Corn takes a lot of water, fertilizer and energy to produce and harvest.

WTF are these people thinking????

iurockhead on August 18, 2012 at 8:23 PM

Their mandate to force manufacturers to accept increasing percentages of “green” fuels is going hit consumers in the pocketbook unless they are given time for the technology to keep up with the changes.

This has NOTHING to do with the technology keeping up, and everything to do with putting a significantly less efficient fuel in my car, and one that will damage it, to boot! Second action of the new Congress – after repealing ObamaTax – should be to shut down the EPA!

GWB on August 18, 2012 at 8:23 PM

Wish there was 100% gas near me.

txhsmom on August 18, 2012 at 8:25 PM

P.S. I hope the ethanol industry is paying $.33/ear like us consumers.

KenInIL on August 18, 2012 at 8:12 PM

They are. Except some large portion of that is subsidies they received from our taxes. Because the price of corn is high, dontcha know!

GWB on August 18, 2012 at 8:25 PM

Shut up proles! And get on the bus! You don’t NEED a private mode of transportation. That’s only for your BETTERS, and don’t you forget it!

GarandFan on August 18, 2012 at 7:51 PM

Cram it, libdieorfree!

Lanceman on August 18, 2012 at 8:29 PM

Based on a HOAX!

tom daschle concerned on August 18, 2012 at 8:30 PM

Hey, Mitt. Abolish EPA.

petefrt on August 18, 2012 at 8:31 PM

Hey, Mitt. Abolish EPA.

petefrt on August 18, 2012 at 8:31 PM

Mittens abolish the EPA?

BWAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!!

NIXON invented that bastard child and he was degrees more conservative!

Lanceman on August 18, 2012 at 8:33 PM

A federal appeals court Friday threw out a challenge by automakers and other groups to a new fuel with a higher blend of ethanol that could damage engines.
======================

Speaking of engines and automakers!!

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************
************

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Posted: 08/18/2012
Last Updated: 1 hour and 40 minutes ago

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http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/money/auto_news/dream_cruise/watch-live-woodward-dream-cruise-2012
===============================

Also related:

http://www.wxyz.com/subindex/money/auto_news/dream_cruise

canopfor on August 18, 2012 at 8:36 PM

Mittens abolish the EPA?

BWAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!!

NIXON invented that bastard child and he was degrees more conservative!

Lanceman on August 18, 2012 at 8:33 PM

Had Nixon retained power he would have purged the sierra clubbers from EPA with plumbers.

harlekwin15 on August 18, 2012 at 8:38 PM

Mitt you’ll get elected by a thunder wave if you run against the EPA overreaches and blast the partisan nature of the courts…

Unfortunately, such a move would cost Mitt every swing state in the Midwest, as the Soetoro campaign would go wall to wall with ads saying “Mitt Romney wants to take away Iowa jobs!!!!!!!!”.

I’m a defender of the Electoral College, but the need to sacrifice opposition to ethanol on the altar of Iowa’s electoral votes shows why it is not a perfect system.

Republicans and Democrats alike in the Midwest are hooked on ethanol subsidies every bit as thoroughly as any junkie is hooked on smack. It’s a great reminder of why we have to halt the spread of more government entitlements.

MidniteRambler on August 18, 2012 at 8:39 PM

Mark my words: When gas hits $7 a gallon, the government will start issuing Fuel Stamps tp the “poor.”

bw222 on August 18, 2012 at 8:40 PM

Fortunately in Ga. we still have non ethanol sources. If you have in your area. Frequent them if you want to keep it that way.

Bmore on August 18, 2012 at 8:40 PM

Reminds me of the judge that turned off the water to the Central Valley in California…

… But the judge didn’t live in the Central Valley, he could afford the resulting higher cost of food, and didn’t have to worry about his job because he had a cushy pension.

To think that a fellow human being could inflict so much damage based on a hoax and flawed ideology…

… and we just sit here and take it.

If we win in November…

… we must demand that these Marxist be personally held accountable!

Seven Percent Solution on August 18, 2012 at 8:46 PM

Republicans and Democrats alike in the Midwest are hooked on ethanol subsidies every bit as thoroughly as any junkie is hooked on smack. It’s a great reminder of why we have to halt the spread of more government entitlements.

MidniteRambler on August 18, 2012 at 8:39 PM

And roll back – no matter how hard it is – the ones currently in force.

GWB on August 18, 2012 at 8:50 PM

as many as 5 million cars from 2001 and beyond could have their engines damaged by the hotter running fuel.

Alcohol burns cooler than gasoline. That’s not the source of the problems.

chewmeister on August 18, 2012 at 8:51 PM

A federal appeals court Friday threw out a challenge by automakers and other groups to a new fuel with a higher blend of ethanol that could damage engines.
====================

Speaking,only as a performance fuel!!

Ethanol Alternative Fuel – E85 Secrets
Hot Rod Magazine, January, 2008
********************************

Ethanol-the fuel distilled from corn instead of crude oil-is a controversial topic in political circles these days. It seems to hit every hot button in public policy, from global warming to farm subsidies to oil dependence. However, we are not going anywhere near that pie fight. This is HOT ROD. Lucky us: We get to bypass all the left-wing poppycock and right-wing folderol and focus on this issue solely as it relates to hot rodding. The bottom line here is that ethanol looks like a pretty darn good performance fuel.
(More…..)

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/hrdp_0801_e85_ethanol_alternative_fuel/viewall.html

canopfor on August 18, 2012 at 8:52 PM

NIXON invented that bastard child and he was degrees more conservative!

Lanceman on August 18, 2012 at 8:33 PM

Incorrect. Nixon, in trying to keep inflation under control, enacted wage and price controls, which, as we all know, is not a conservative move. The closest Nixon ever got to being a conservative was when he beat an even more liberal Humphrey and uber liberal McGovern.

john1schn on August 18, 2012 at 8:52 PM

KEEP INFLICING PAIN ON YOURSELF

THAT’S WHAT YOU DO

HELP

Key West Reader on August 18, 2012 at 8:54 PM

Meanwhile……..the SunShine States weighs In!

Should the U.S. stop using corn for fuel?
*****************************************

The drought hammering the Midwest is driving up corn prices, which in the past six weeks have shot up nearly 50 percent to $8.20 a bushel. But drought is not the only thing driving up corn prices.

Most corn is used as livestock feed, not food for humans, and increasing meat consumption worldwide bids up the price of feed. But there’s another big factor as well: Congress has distorted the grain market by favoring the use of corn to manufacture ethanol.
The result has been higher prices for everything from milk to cheeseburgers.

This year, says Robert Bryce of the Manhattan Institute, about 4.3 billion bushels of corn will be converted into motor fuel. That’s nearly 37 percent of this year’s corn crop.

In 2005, just 13 percent of America’s corn production went into ethanol. Back then, not coincidentally, corn was just $2 per bushel.

Congress has pretended that America needed to convert corn into ethanol to reduce reliance on foreign oil.
******************************************

In fact, the policy was to prop up corn prices.
************************************************

All those Midwestern farmers – and their representatives in the House and Senate – rail against “Big Government,” except when it’s doing favors for them.

Nearly as much corn now goes into ethanol production as is used for livestock feed. Without that use, the price of corn would come down. America’s domestic energy production is rising, thanks to new techniques, so ethanol does not significantly enhance energy independence.

Federal subsidies for ethanol finally ended last year. But the government keeps pushing the fuel. The EPA just approved adding more ethanol to gasoline, even though many engines are not designed to run on the new mix and could be damaged by it.

It makes sense to turn non-food “biomass” into ethanol. But why turn a food product into fuel if it creates higher prices on grocery store shelves and in the meat and dairy cases?
=======================================================

http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/opinionzone/2012/08/03/should-the-u-s-stop-using-corn-for-fuel/

canopfor on August 18, 2012 at 8:58 PM

Key West Reader on August 18, 2012 at 8:55 PM

What is going on?

tom daschle concerned on August 18, 2012 at 9:00 PM

Key West Reader on August 18, 2012 at 8:55 PM

Joking?

chewmeister on August 18, 2012 at 9:00 PM

Local guy, Ed Wallace, has been bemoaning ethanol since it’s conception, I think.
So, how’re your mowers and walkers doing on this stuff, eh ??
Wish we had more pure stuff available.

http://www.insideautomotive.com/

pambi on August 18, 2012 at 9:00 PM

I’m still waiting fo the Star Trek type transporter mandate, cold fusion mandate, and anti matter mandate. Just have the govenmnet mandate those and all our enegy problems disappear.

bgibbs1000 on August 18, 2012 at 9:01 PM

My buddy owns a marina, he told me that the fuel tanks that are made of fiberglass enclosed in boats are degrading from the alcohol. They can’t replace them because they are part of the boat. In short, the boats will be junk within a few years after they add more alcohol to the mixture ……

angrymike on August 18, 2012 at 9:01 PM

KWR .. Help us… You serious, here ?

pambi on August 18, 2012 at 9:01 PM

Silence, Comrades.

It is your duty to support the Kommisar of Korn.

BallisticBob on August 18, 2012 at 9:03 PM

RE: KWR !!!
I’m THIS close to calling authorities !!
Has anyone, yet ??

pambi on August 18, 2012 at 9:03 PM

pambi on August 18, 2012 at 9:03 PM

Someone in that area needs to.

chewmeister on August 18, 2012 at 9:04 PM

MeanWhile Part Deux………………….

Record Drought May Be a Good Time to Stop Using Corn for Fuel
on August 18, 2012
******************

Newsflash: The United Nations and The Wall Street Journal just agreed on something. Earlier this month the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization issued a statement urging “an immediate, temporary suspension” of America’s use of corn to produce ethanol, in order to “allow more of the crop to be channelled toward food and feed uses.”

Within 24 hours, the Journal responded: “Natural disasters can’t be controlled. Ethanol is a man-made disaster that could be stopped.”

What size “disaster” does it take to align the Journal with the United Nations? Simply this: Over the course of a scorching summer, the U.S. is smoldering its way into our worst drought in 50 years.

Shucking Dollars Down the Drain

The Department of Agriculture says we’re likely to reap only 10.8 billion bushels of corn in 2012. That sounds like a lot, but it’s actually 13% less than we grew in 2011, and the smallest harvest since 2006 — despite American farmers planting the most acres ever planted in the past 75 years. Today, fewer than one acre in four in America has a “good” crop or better. The rest of the crop is “poor” … or worse.

And yet, with so little corn to go around, U.S. law still mandates that we take 40% of the harvest and turn it into ethanol — not useful things like corn chips (yum!) or cattle feed, but a fuel blamed for everything from wasting water to corroding engines to simply not being all that good a fuel source. (A liter of ethanol, when burned, generates a third less energy than a liter of oil.)

Topping it all off, the making of ethanol may actually consume more energy than the burning of the finished product produces. Depending on how you run the numbers, it may take as much as 29% more energy to plant, fertilize, harvest, transport, and distill a gallon of ethanol than you get out of that gallon once ignited in your car engine.

(Oh, and taxpayers subsidize the stuff, too.)
**********************************************

http://g7finance.com/global-news/record-drought-may-be-a-good-time-to-stop-using-corn-for-fuel/

canopfor on August 18, 2012 at 9:05 PM

I’m going for 911, with that addy .. Cannot wait

pambi on August 18, 2012 at 9:06 PM

pambi on August 18, 2012 at 9:06 PM

It’s not like KWR to post something like this.

chewmeister on August 18, 2012 at 9:07 PM

Wish there was 100% gas near me.

txhsmom on August 18, 2012 at 8:25 PM

In the great utopian State of California — gas pump labeling when ethanol is added is NOT required. It’s not even SOMETIMES required depending on ethanol percentage in the mix. Heck, it’s not even RECOMMENDED in this craphole state. In fact, this craphole state doesn’t even use the word ‘ethanol’ — they call it ‘oxygenated’ fuel.

California’s overlords don’t want us to know because they know we’ll pick and choose where we buy and the ethanol gas will be heavily avoided. They don’t want that. Not in the least — and they’re chomping at the bit to force ALL public gas stations in the state to get that 15%+ ethanol going.

If you want to know what gas stations sell ‘oxygenated’ or pure petrol — you have to ask the station owner or whomever does the fuel purchasing for the station. But it’s barely worth the effort anyway since pretty much every single gas station in California sells ethanol-added gasoline.

FlatFoot on August 18, 2012 at 9:07 PM

TX 911 could not give me any assistance, not even a lead.
I tried.
KWR .. Wazzzup ??

pambi on August 18, 2012 at 9:09 PM

The 15% alcohol destroys o-ring seals.

Even 10% is bad if you ever let the seals dry out.

I have a set of carbs for a motorcycle that had this happen, hooked it up after about a month of setting, it leaked like a sieve and all the o-rings on the fuel feed rail were dust. And they are custom sized o-rings, no off the shelf replacement.

Make no mistake, the purpose here is to get as many cars off the road as possible. Because it will destroy all but the newest multifuel cars.

orbitalair on August 18, 2012 at 9:09 PM

The Department of Agriculture says we’re likely to reap only 10.8 billion bushels of corn in 2012. That sounds like a lot, but it’s actually 13% less than we grew in 2011, and the smallest harvest since 2006 — despite American farmers planting the most acres ever planted in the past 75 years. Today, fewer than one acre in four in America has a “good” crop or better. The rest of the crop is “poor” … or worse

.http://g7finance.com/global-news/record-drought-may-be-a-good-time-to-stop-using-corn-for-fuel/

canopfor on August 18, 2012 at 9:05 PM

Sounds like the annual harvest report from the old Soviet Union.

bgibbs1000 on August 18, 2012 at 9:09 PM

I’m going for 911, with that addy .. Cannot wait

pambi on August 18, 2012 at 9:06 PM

Please do.

tom daschle concerned on August 18, 2012 at 9:09 PM

Gonna try for zip code, 911 … BRB

pambi on August 18, 2012 at 9:10 PM

(813) 247-8555

Sheriffs department local to that addy

tom daschle concerned on August 18, 2012 at 9:10 PM

Meanwhile Part 3……..and remember Obama was sending
food,fish to farmers…….ahem…[to the fuel than to livestock.]
___________________________________________________________________

Ethanol vs. the World
The corn fuel mandate is raising food prices and hurting the poor.
August 13 2012
**************

In 2007 and 2008, food prices spiked, resulting in much higher U.S. grocery bills and far more hunger in the poorest countries as the global supply chain buckled. The world may now be on the cusp of a 2012 reprise amid the drought in the Midwest farm belt, the worst in 50 years. Luckily, there are plenty of simple, modest things Washington can do to alleviate and even prevent another crisis.

The problem is that these fixes are opposed by a minor industry that adds little if any value to the economy, even counting its prodigious Beltway operations. Yup, the ethanol lobby strikes again. It can’t succeed without a mandate that forces consumers to buy its product every time they fill up the tank, and if the resulting corn shortages drive food prices up in a way that punishes consumers around the world, so be it.

On Friday, the U.S. Agriculture Department downgraded its 2012 corn forecast by 13% from last year’s crop, to 10.8 billion bushels. That would be the shortest harvest since 2006, even though the acreage planted with corn rose 4% since last year and is the highest since 1937. Scorching temperatures and little rainfall have left only 24% of the crop in good or excellent condition in the 18 major corn belt states, down from 72% in June. These represent the largest month-to-month potential declines in grain yields since the USDA started to keep records.

Corn is also a key ingredient
******************************

in the combine of political power and corporate welfare
*******************************************************

that is

U.S. alternative energy policy.
********************************
********************************

The food-to-fuel mandate is known as the Renewable Fuels Standard (RFS) and requires 13.2 billion gallons of ethanol to be blended into the gasoline supply this year and 36 billion gallons by 2022. These quotas are fulfilled almost entirely by corn ethanol. Four of every 10 bushels in 2011 went into the stuff.

For the first time ever,
*************************

more corn is devoted to the fuel than to livestock.
*****************************************************
(More…)
=========

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443404004577581140907497810.html

canopfor on August 18, 2012 at 9:11 PM

the other cool thing about ethanol is that it absorbs and holds water until it saturates, at which point all the water is solution separates and falls to the bottom of your tank, where then you engine gets a big gulp of water…and stops running cause water isn’t flammable at 12 atmospheres.

orbitalair on August 18, 2012 at 9:15 PM

o

rbitalair on August 18, 2012 at 9:15 PM

And freezes in the winter.

chewmeister on August 18, 2012 at 9:16 PM

canopfor on August 18, 2012 at 9:05 PM

Sounds like the annual harvest report from the old Soviet Union.

bgibbs1000 on August 18, 2012 at 9:09 PM

bgibbs1000:

More than likey,I heard a story,on the news spot on talk radio,about some report that wanted the US of A,to quit making fuel out of corn
because,yup,the POOR,were getting screwed over!!

Well,the Obama Administration loves “Alternative Energy”!!

canopfor on August 18, 2012 at 9:16 PM

Sherriff # given above is not Answering. Tried.
911op is trying some other way.

pambi on August 18, 2012 at 9:17 PM

the other cool thing about ethanol is that it absorbs and holds water until it saturates, at which point all the water is solution separates and falls to the bottom of your tank, where then you engine gets a big gulp of water…and stops running cause water isn’t flammable at 12 atmospheres.

orbitalair on August 18, 2012 at 9:15 PM

All we need is the water engine. You know, the patent the government and oil companies hid decades ago.

bgibbs1000 on August 18, 2012 at 9:18 PM

You people seem to think having your engine destroyed is a bad thing! Think of the additional jobs that will be created! [/sarcasm]

htom on August 18, 2012 at 9:18 PM

The Mother Earth Religion strikes again. Call for the separation of church and state.

John the Libertarian on August 18, 2012 at 9:20 PM

The EPA can “mandate” all they want. Consumers don’t have to purchase it.

GarandFan on August 18, 2012 at 9:22 PM

I reached KWR’s local sheriff dept… They will send someone to check on her !!

pambi on August 18, 2012 at 9:25 PM

You people seem to think having your engine destroyed is a bad thing! Think of the additional jobs that will be created! [/sarcasm]

htom on August 18, 2012 at 9:18 PM

htom:

I wouldn’t run corn crap,through any engine,and
I’ve got brilliant idea ?

OUT: “Cash for Clunkers”

IN: “Loans for Clunker Engines”!!!
(sarc)

canopfor on August 18, 2012 at 9:26 PM

I have a reference /report #, and their phone #, too.

pambi on August 18, 2012 at 9:26 PM

Deputies are on their way.

Lanceman on August 18, 2012 at 9:26 PM

Gary Johnson 2012!

For freedom liberty and a return to fiscal sanity and prosperity!

FloatingRock on August 18, 2012 at 2:48 PM

WE already pay for it in having it mandated, made and regulated via taxes.

Mimzey on August 18, 2012 at 9:27 PM

The EPA can “mandate” all they want. Consumers don’t have to purchase it.

GarandFan on August 18, 2012 at 9:22 PM

Wrong quote..sorry.

Mimzey on August 18, 2012 at 9:27 PM

VALRICO, FLORIDA — SHERIFF DEPT DISPATCH PHONE NUMBER:

(813)247-8200

I called. They are sending a car to that Kenwick Drive address for a ‘welfare check’.

They said there was another caller that called in too — from Texas.

So — they’re on their way.

FlatFoot on August 18, 2012 at 9:29 PM

I have a reference /report #, and their phone #, too.

pambi on August 18, 2012 at 9:26 PM

Thank God – are they going to let you know once they check on her?

gophergirl on August 18, 2012 at 9:29 PM

Deputies are on their way.

Lanceman on August 18, 2012 at 9:26 PM

Prayers for her. Gosh-I hope she’s okay!

annoyinglittletwerp on August 18, 2012 at 9:30 PM

I have a reference /report #, and their phone #, too.

pambi on August 18, 2012 at 9:26 PM

Good for you. Years ago a disabled man typed for help in a chat room I was in. The paramedics were called and broke down the door. It was a medical emergency.

Paul-Cincy on August 18, 2012 at 9:30 PM

FlatFoot on August 18, 2012 at 9:29 PM

AMEN !!
We love us our KWR !!

pambi on August 18, 2012 at 9:30 PM

Thank God – are they going to let you know once they check on her?

gophergirl on August 18, 2012 at 9:29 PM

I have a reference #.

Have to call back in an hour.

Lanceman on August 18, 2012 at 9:31 PM

No wonder our town used all that stim $ to paint bike lanes.

Kissmygrits on August 18, 2012 at 9:31 PM

It ain’t like her to type in all caps.

Lanceman on August 18, 2012 at 9:31 PM

I have a reference #.

Have to call back in an hour.

Lanceman on August 18, 2012 at 9:31 PM

Thank God.

Good people on this board – great people.

gophergirl on August 18, 2012 at 9:32 PM

Lanceman on August 18, 2012 at 9:31 PM

KWR has been here for years-and I always though KWR was a ‘he’.

annoyinglittletwerp on August 18, 2012 at 9:33 PM

gophergirl on August 18, 2012 at 9:29 PM

I’m not sure they’d call me, but they took my #.
I think I can call back to find out the status, but will allow some time.

pambi on August 18, 2012 at 9:34 PM

I have a reference #.

Have to call back in an hour.

Lanceman on August 18, 2012 at 9:31 PM

The Sheriff’s probably won’t tell you diddly-squat over the phone but they should tell you if the person is okay — if in fact they are okay — since it is a Welfare Check.

KWR’s a swell person. Post an update in this thread to let us know what they tell you, please? Thanks.

FlatFoot on August 18, 2012 at 9:34 PM

KWR has been here for years-and I always though KWR was a ‘he’.

annoyinglittletwerp on August 18, 2012 at 9:33 PM

Nuh uh.

Lanceman on August 18, 2012 at 9:35 PM

KWR,, you are in my prayers.

wolly4321 on August 18, 2012 at 9:35 PM

Lanceman
She admitted she had lung cancer a couple weeks ago, she also has other things going on.
Say prayers for her…….

angrymike on August 18, 2012 at 9:36 PM

annoyinglittletwerp on August 18, 2012 at 9:33 PM

Such a horrible year for her, and to read @ 8:54 scared the bejeesus outta me !

pambi on August 18, 2012 at 9:37 PM

We love us our KWR !!

pambi on August 18, 2012 at 9:30 PM

Yes, we do. *prayers*

Fallon on August 18, 2012 at 9:37 PM

Good on you guys for following through. Hope KWR is all right.

John the Libertarian on August 18, 2012 at 9:37 PM

Prayers for KWR. Hope she’ll be OK.

22044 on August 18, 2012 at 9:37 PM

She admitted she had lung cancer a couple weeks ago, she also has other things going on.
Say prayers for her…….

angrymike on August 18, 2012 at 9:36 PM

That ain’t good.

I’m workin’ on a case right now. Few more years of smokin’ oughta just about do it.

Lanceman on August 18, 2012 at 9:37 PM

We love us our KWR !!

pambi on August 18, 2012 at 9:30 PM

Yes, we do. *prayers*

Fallon on August 18, 2012 at 9:37 PM

Exactly.

annoyinglittletwerp on August 18, 2012 at 9:38 PM

I’m not sure they’d call me, but they took my #.
I think I can call back to find out the status, but will allow some time.

pambi on August 18, 2012 at 9:34 PM

Thank you for doing that – you are a great person.

gophergirl on August 18, 2012 at 9:39 PM

That ain’t good.

I’m workin’ on a case right now. Few more years of smokin’ oughta just about do it.

Lanceman on August 18, 2012 at 9:37 PM

I’m guessing a heart attack will get my husband first. Hes been begging for LC lately though. *looks sad*

annoyinglittletwerp on August 18, 2012 at 9:40 PM

Prayers for KWR. Hope she’ll be OK.

22044 on August 18, 2012 at 9:37 PM

That’s weird.

Your handle is 22044 — and the street number for the location is 2204.

O.o

FlatFoot on August 18, 2012 at 9:42 PM

That’s weird.

Your handle is 22044 — and the street number for the location is 2204.

O.o

FlatFoot on August 18, 2012 at 9:42 PM

No, what’s weird is a flatfoot calling the flatfeet!

Lanceman on August 18, 2012 at 9:43 PM

Speaking of feet, I miss crappy_feet.

Lanceman on August 18, 2012 at 9:43 PM

Lanceman on August 18, 2012 at 9:43 PM

you mean carbon_f? he’s still here

John the Libertarian on August 18, 2012 at 9:44 PM

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