Video: Erskine Bowles says Ryan budget “sensible … honest, serious”

posted at 8:41 am on August 13, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

Why is this important?  Erskine Bowles has a long pedigree as a Democratic budget thinker — and presidential adviser.  When Barack Obama needed to pick the co-chair for his deficit committee, which he roundly ignored in the end, he chose Bowles to represent his side on the panel.  Bowles served as Bill Clinton’s chief of staff, and earlier ran the Small Business Administration for Clinton.  Ezra Klein predicted on Friday that Bowles would be the front-runner for Tim Geithner’s job at Treasury if Obama wins a second term.

Bear in mind this while you watch this clip, found by our good friend Morgen Richmond over the weekend — the Ryan budget came as an answer of sorts to the budget recommendations from the deficit committee, on which Ryan served with Bowles.  Even though this is a competing plan, Bowles in September 2011 was impressed with it and with Ryan enough to call it “sensible,” “honest,” and “serious” — although Bowles still didn’t accept it as a substitute for the panel’s:

Remember this when you start to hear the Obama campaign rip the Ryan budget as an unserious attempt to kill Medicare and allow rich people to feast on the bones of the poor.  Bowles has his own issues with Ryan’s plan (which at one point in the video below he calls “radical”), but Bowles acknowledges this as a good-faith effort to fix the structural crisis in American finances.  That’s more respect than Bowles gave Obama’s budget, which he noted got voted down in the Senate 97-0, and for good reason.  Bowles even tweaks Obama for dishonestly attempting to evade a true comparison and for back-loading cuts in order to claim $4 trillion in reductions over 12 years.

One should not come away with the impression that Bowles supports the Ryan budget.  However, it’s clear that Bowles has a great deal more respect for Ryan’s efforts than he does for Barack Obama’s.

Update: Here’s the transcript of the shorter clip, courtesy of Resist We Much in the comments:

“Have any of you met Paul Ryan? We should get him to come to the university. I’m telling you this guy is amazing, uh. I always thought that I was OK with arithmetic, but this guy can run circles around me. And, he is honest. He is straightforward. He is sincere.

And, the budget that he came forward with is just like Paul Ryan. It is a sensible, straightforward, serious budget and it cut the budget deficit by $4 trillion…just like we did.

The President came out with his own plan and the President came out, as you will remember, with a budget and I don’t think anyone took that budget very seriously. Um, the Senate voted against it 97 to nothing. He, therefore, after a lot of pressure from folks like me, he came out with a new budget framework and, in the new budget framework, he cut the budget deficit by $4 trillion over 12 years. And, to be candid, this $4 trillion cut was very heavily back-end loaded. So, if you looked at it on a 10 year basis and compared apples-to-apples, it was about a $2.5 trillion cut.”


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I’m quite shocked at the cynicism of this chat, especially the comments of Dante, astonerii, and HondaV65.

Honda – Were you not a Palin supporter? Did you not feel the wave of optimism back then? If McCain & Palin had been elected, the recession would have still been painful. Perhaps we would not have thrown money away and wasted time like Obama. But we would still be hurting – the world is too big and interconnected to escape it.

And now the public has had four years to witness the failure of the plattitudes, emptiness and unserious-ness of liberal politics.

The Romney/Ryan choice is a step in the right direction. If we try and fail, then I can accept that (as will we all). But what in God’s name is the purpose of not trying? Perhaps you are right and we are doomed. If we are, is it so great a prize to be able to say “I told you so”?

“Atlas Shrugged” was a cautionary tale – not a pathway to be desired.

connertown on August 13, 2012 at 11:22 AM

Not on what is popular – on what is possible.

If your principles demand you do things regardless of what’s actually possible then go right ahead but it doesn’t justify being smug because I actually care about what my real choices are.

gwelf on August 13, 2012 at 11:18 AM

Well put, friend.
And again I say to you Dante, & your kind, you have made your points.
We are FOR living to fight another day.
You & your friends are for dying right now & hoping you will be martyred & the world will heal & everyone will take notice & reverse their positions 180 degrees.
You also probably are busy chasing the ends of rainbows for pots of gold & trying to catch leprechauns.
Doesn’t it feel good to be humiliated for your stance?

Badger40 on August 13, 2012 at 11:23 AM

Badger40 on August 13, 2012 at 11:23 AM

Well put. Those who are looking for us to join them in a national suicide pact aren’t going to find any takers among real patriots!

MJBrutus on August 13, 2012 at 11:25 AM

Honda and Dante are ecstatic. Ed engaged with them and they were the center of attention for a short while. Mission accomplished!

a capella on August 13, 2012 at 11:27 AM

“Atlas Shrugged” was a cautionary tale – not a pathway to be desired.

connertown on August 13, 2012 at 11:22 AM

Very well put.
I used to like Honda, but have watched him grow embittered & purist.
Or maybe perhaps I’ve given him too much credit & he always was bitter & rigid.
IT’s hard to keep all the HA personalities straight.

I do not want a Rev0lution a la 1776. I do not want a Civil W@r a la 1860s, either.
These people, from what I can gather, would welcome such a thing with open arms.
Chaos brings misery.
IT should only be a last resort when cornered.
They fully embrace the chaos.
And at this point, we are not Europe & I find no need to do so.
Thankfully they are the very small minority.
Who are holed up in the bunkers reading survivalist magazines & fashioning tin foil hats.

Badger40 on August 13, 2012 at 11:27 AM

MJBrutus on August 13, 2012 at 11:25 AM

Thank you.
We’ve had our differences on Mitt. It was a primary & vetting occurred & since nothing materialized better than Mitt by the time my primary voting came around, I voted for him.
I would have loved for Palin to run, but I choose hope rather than despair.
I liked George W., but vehemently disagreed with his stance on many things. He took us in a horrible direction in some ways.
And I can even appreciate some of Clinton’s efforts, though I despise him.
And Reagan invoked a great love of country in me as a teen. But I have since come to realize he wasn’t perfect either.
No one is. Jefferson & George Washington weren’t.
I choose life, not suicide.
I have 4 daughters & a granddaughter. I will fight for them in baby steps if I have to.
And yes, will die on my sword if necessary. But now is not the time.

Badger40 on August 13, 2012 at 11:32 AM

I think it would be useful if someone, who is familiar with Wikipedia editing procedures, would submit a request that Erskine Bowles’ opinion of Paul Ryan and description of the Ryan Plan, as revealed in these 2011 lectures posted on Youtube, be added to Ryan’s Wikipedia profile.

Wendy on August 13, 2012 at 11:37 AM

And I am reminded of a loose quote (don’t know who said it), but basically:
Things are run by the people who show up.

I have experienced this painfully in my community with the school I work in.
I have tried to institute change & it didn’t happen. I can only do so much by myself. I fell into despair & negativity.
I applied for another job. But couldn’t fully go over to the other school bcs the pay cut was too much.
So the 2 schools now share me.
And I find, as always, He has provided me a blessing in disguise.
This situation, which will continue again this year, has invigorated me & given me hope. I am more positive & I’m not in the depths of despair anymore.
And it has allowed me to think more clearly about what else I can do to try & institute change in my failing school.
Baby steps. My community is still cancerous. But I hope to help change happen from within by being a voice & an example to aspire to.
I think I have done some good in my students by fostering in them a love & respect for country & civic duty.
It’s my small part in those baby steps I pray & hope to institute what I hope will someday end in real change.

Badger40 on August 13, 2012 at 11:38 AM

It would appear things are getting pretty cynical on these threads.

I would agree that if Romney and Ryan get elected and do not lead, do not repeal O’Bamacare, do not reform entitlements and the myriad of governmental programs, then they will do significant damage not only to the country, to their party, and the Tea Party won’t stand for it.

Those of us here probably study this stuff much more than the electorate in general, and while it is encouraging that our candidate would select a VP who has a lot of conservative gravitas, it is disconcerting when an aide comes out immediately and distances his medicare stance from the VP’s.

Math is not that difficult, but political math in denial is messy, deceptive, and a false narrative. The truth about the math is it is obvious the Democrats truly have no intention whatsoever in reducing our debt, government, or unfunded liabilities in the future.

If, as Rush points out repeatedly, that some in the GOP establishment view elections only as who heads the committees and thus controls the money, then it will occur to many that the GOP has no intention whatsoever in reducing our debt, government, or unfunded liabilities in the future. In this regard it will be the demise of our country since pandering, however sincere, leads to ruin.

Starlink on August 13, 2012 at 11:33 AM

Good points, all. Let’s vote out the money-seekers (I don’t count Romney or Ryan among them) and take back our party.

RationalIcthus on August 13, 2012 at 11:38 AM

Badger40 on August 13, 2012 at 11:32 AM

Whatever our differences in the past, I never questioned your intentions. We saw different ways to get to a mutually desired end. That was then and this is now. You are wise enough to know that at this point there is only one option to move the ball forward, even if not at the pace that we would want.

MJBrutus on August 13, 2012 at 11:46 AM

The President came out with his own plan and the President came out, as you will remember, with a budget and I don’t think anyone took that budget very seriously. Um, the Senate voted against it 97 to nothing. He, therefore, after a lot of pressure from folks like me, he came out with a new budget framework and, in the new budget framework, he cut the budget deficit by $4 trillion over 12 years. And, to be candid, this $4 trillion cut was very heavily back-end loaded. So, if you looked at it on a 10 year basis and compared apples-to-apples, it was about a $2.5 trillion cut.”

Obama’s a can kicker.

CW on August 13, 2012 at 11:46 AM

New poll shows Ryan pick not popular…

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/onpolitics/post/2012/08/paul-ryan-poll-vice-president-mitt-romney-/1#.UCkfIZ1lSY2

gumbyandpokey on August 13, 2012 at 11:42 AM

You’re late to the party idiot.

http://hotair.com/headlines/archives/2012/08/13/gallup-39-rate-ryan-excellent-or-very-good-42-fair-or-poor/

Read the comments if you know how. Not really much to this poll.

CW on August 13, 2012 at 11:47 AM

New poll shows Ryan pick not popular…

gumbyandpokey on August 13, 2012 at 11:42 AM

Where does Gallup have Obummer? 43%. You effing dummy.

CW on August 13, 2012 at 11:49 AM

honda is a moby.

faraway on August 13, 2012 at 10:26 AM

And anyone that still uses “LMFAO” has to be fourteen years old.

slickwillie2001 on August 13, 2012 at 11:54 AM

No – I don’t want to see that … I want Conservatives to vote directly for Obama so the anti-Willard vote isn’t diluted.

Willard could win this thing – even with a third party. Maybe even with Conservatives sitting home.

In order to send a message to the GOP Ayatollahs – gotta vote Obama.

And personally – I can’t wait!

It’ll feel just like smearing a rubarb pie into the face of John Cornyn!

HondaV65 on August 13, 2012 at 9:56 AM

Mental illness is really an ugly disease. So sad.

JPeterman on August 13, 2012 at 12:00 PM

I’m going to guess most people here see a vote for Romney/Ryan as trying to slowdown the current inevitable. It seems opposition would rather go ahead and pull the proverbial trigger and just let the country end.

I’m curious, for those here telling people like me who see a vote for Romney as, at least, a slow down in order to keep working behind the scenes (and in some cases out front)to bring about something better for the country, how is voting for anyone other than Romney going to help us have more time?

For those saying “we gotta vote for someone else to make them understand”, what is the theory behind this? I didn’t work with Bush Sr., it didn’t work with Dede Scazafava (or whatever the last name was).

roopster217 on August 13, 2012 at 12:04 PM

anyone notice the progressive trolls have adopted a new meme today! Obowmao is bad but so is Romney. Typical Chicago Thug Election options. Me thinks, Dante and it’s ilk are SCARED

screwauger on August 13, 2012 at 12:12 PM

I do not want a Rev0lution a la 1776. I do not want a Civil W@r a la 1860s, either.
These people, from what I can gather, would welcome such a thing with open arms.

Badger40 on August 13, 2012 at 11:27 AM

I don’t want these things either, but not wanting them isn’t going to prevent them. Assuming those of us who are students of history, of both then and now, would welcome the inevitable is just political posturing on your part. We simply know there is no way to stop it anymore.

I’ve followed this and many other threads and have seen many possible solutions offered. Not one of them is realistic, and not one of them has a chance in hell of working. This govt is not going to stop its overspending, no matter what we do, no matter who we elect. If you don’t believe me, perhaps you can point to a single example of someone who can and will. Paul Ryan’s plan doesn’t even do this for a very long time. Inevitably, both he and Romney will be gone and leftists will again get power through media manipulation of the populace and we’re right back here again.

I have changed my mind and will be voting for Romney due to this VP choice, but I have no illusions as to the outcome. This isn’t the first time I decided to vote for the RINO based on his VP selection, but it has never worked in our favor (even when the RINO won, which he didn’t last time).

runawayyyy on August 13, 2012 at 12:53 PM

I have changed my mind and will be voting for Romney due to this VP choice,

runawayyyy on August 13, 2012 at 12:53 PM

While I’m glad that you will be doing the right thing, this line of thinking baffles me. What I saw last summer, that attracted me to Romney, is that he is fiscally conservative in his heart and in his mind. While there may be some daylight in their plans, Romney and Ryan are pragmatic and philosophical twins. I was thrilled, but not at all surprised by Mitt’s selection of Ryan. Picking Ryan was entirely within character for Romney. I never understood thsoe who continually asked, “What does Mitt stand for,” as it was so evidently obvious to me from the moment I read his plan for America that he released at the start of his campaign and that he has not wavered from.

MJBrutus on August 13, 2012 at 1:16 PM

Anything that allows the progressive evil of wealth transfer from one generation to another to continue is going to be viewed favorably. It is that evil that debasses the people and makes them more succeptable to more and more progressive ideas. Ryan is not on our side.

astonerii on August 13, 2012 at 8:57 AM

I think you didn’t mean what you just wrote. Mankind has always transferred wealth from one generation to another. That’s not a progressive evil.

Gelsomina on August 13, 2012 at 1:17 PM

I never understood thsoe who continually asked, “What does Mitt stand for,” as it was so evidently obvious to me from the moment I read his plan for America that he released at the start of his campaign and that he has not wavered from.

MJBrutus on August 13, 2012 at 1:16 PM

Your response is reasonable and reasonably presented. Thanks for that.

I understand it, but that’s not my problem with Romney, never was. My problem was that I saw too many things I did understand, and few of them were conservative. Since I’m a well known pessimist concerning where we are and where we’re going in this country (see my first post in this thread), I don’t see Romney as a person who will do much more than slow down the inevitable march to total govt control over my life.

The Ryan pick was surprising for me as it forces us to take a closer look than most want to at just how far off the rails we already are. I don’t think many want to see it, but it’s absolutely necessary. I also don’t think it will make a bit of difference no matter how educated the people get because they will not give up their free stuff no matter what. Until it’s too late I mean.

As for his plan for America, all I can suggest is that it’s wildly different (and yes, more conservative) than anything he’s actually done in elected office. I hope he implements it, I really do, but I just don’t see it happening.

runawayyyy on August 13, 2012 at 1:47 PM

connertown on August 13, 2012 at 11:22 AM

Badger40 on August 13, 2012 at 11:23 AM

The tribal wars through the primary were brutal in the sense that a lot of posters here went all in for their candidate, which included attempting to destroy the others AND the people that that supported them.

Some haven’t come back from that mentally. That might be part of what you are seeing.

As well, it seems that those that do continue to post haven’t got over the butthurt from Palin not running. Not all Palinistas are like that (I’m one yet have managed to “get over it” and realize the fight isn’t over, it’s just changed) so while some Palinistas have been behaving like idiots, not all of us have lost our minds.

For people like the butthurts and myopics who believe Gary Johnson can win, never mind breaking 1% of the vote, just set your phasers on ignore. My advice and worth every penny you paid.

kim roy on August 13, 2012 at 1:53 PM

runawayyyy on August 13, 2012 at 1:47 PM

Certainly his selection of Ryan would lend credence to the sincerity of his plan. Don’t you think?

MJBrutus on August 13, 2012 at 1:54 PM

I don’t want these things either, but not wanting them isn’t going to prevent them. Assuming those of us who are students of history, of both then and now, would welcome the inevitable is just political posturing on your part. We simply know there is no way to stop it anymore.

I’ve followed this and many other threads and have seen many possible solutions offered. Not one of them is realistic, and not one of them has a chance in hell of working. This govt is not going to stop its overspending, no matter what we do, no matter who we elect. If you don’t believe me, perhaps you can point to a single example of someone who can and will. Paul Ryan’s plan doesn’t even do this for a very long time. Inevitably, both he and Romney will be gone and leftists will again get power through media manipulation of the populace and we’re right back here again.

I have changed my mind and will be voting for Romney due to this VP choice, but I have no illusions as to the outcome. This isn’t the first time I decided to vote for the RINO based on his VP selection, but it has never worked in our favor (even when the RINO won, which he didn’t last time).

runawayyyy on August 13, 2012 at 12:53 PM

While I’m inclined to give up in my heart like you have, I’m just not ready for it.
In fact, the ONLY time I think I might ever be ready to go through the motions & throw in the towel of my heart like you seem to have is when the Feds are knocking on my door, weapons in hand, stealing my cattle & my ranch, jailing me, etc.
And I don’t know where you ever got this idea regarding me:

but not wanting them isn’t going to prevent them

I understand history WILL repeat itself.
That is a given.
It would have been a sad day if the Patriots during the latter half of the 18th century would have sported your attitude about things.
But they didn’t.
They rose up against the Leviathan that was the British Crown & seemingly against all odds, they won.
Yes. They won it for us to then pi$$ on it & throw it away.
But they did it.
Robert the Bruce won some things. And after his death the people pi$$ed it away as well.
But this is the human struggle.
And I still choose to have positive hope & aspirations regarding these men.
Maybe, just maybe, is we the American people, were to encourage & show our support, while being demanding of the the results, we could get these men to institute some changes that would affect this country in a major way.
It’s real easy to be a pessimist.
It’s really hard to be an optimist in pessimistic times.

Badger40 on August 13, 2012 at 2:06 PM

Certainly his selection of Ryan would lend credence to the sincerity of his plan. Don’t you think?

MJBrutus on August 13, 2012 at 1:54 PM

Of course, which explains my change of mind on voting for a president in this election. I honestly didn’t think he’d do something that smart. Glad to be proven wrong this time, but of course I still think it’s too late whatever the plan.

runawayyyy on August 13, 2012 at 2:38 PM

It’s really hard to be an optimist in pessimistic times.

Badger40 on August 13, 2012 at 2:06 PM

You got that right.

I don’t think it’s a fair comparison though, the one you drew between current times and the patriots that founded this great country. They had an ocean between them and their foes, and at the time that was the defining obstacle to the Brits maintaining their control. I don’t think it was such a stretch for the patriots to think they could win it.

On the other hand, our current enemy is ourselves (i.e. our addiction to entitlements, our ignorance which is only compounded by the easy availability of information, etc.). If you really see a way around the majority of folks defining their lives with govt handouts, I’m dying to know what it is. Call it giving up if you like, I simply see it as accepting the inevitable. It makes preparations much easier.

Boortz had a great quote, which was running on our local talk station in ads for his show. I won’t use quote marks for fear of missing a word or 2, but it was something like I don’t see how the govt educated people of this country can ever fix the problems our country has when they’ll admire someone like Kim Kardashian and elect someone like barack obama.

Pretty much summed it up nicely for me.

runawayyyy on August 13, 2012 at 2:47 PM

Boortz had a great quote, which was running on our local talk station in ads for his show. I won’t use quote marks for fear of missing a word or 2, but it was something like I don’t see how the govt educated people of this country can ever fix the problems our country has when they’ll admire someone like Kim Kardashian and elect someone like barack obama.

Pretty much summed it up nicely for me.

runawayyyy on August 13, 2012 at 2:47 PM

I really don’t think those types of people actually vote as much as we might think.

I don’t think it’s a fair comparison though, the one you drew between current times and the patriots that founded this great country. They had an ocean between them and their foes, and at the time that was the defining obstacle to the Brits maintaining their control. I don’t think it was such a stretch for the patriots to think they could win it.

On the other hand, our current enemy is ourselves (i.e. our addiction to entitlements, our ignorance which is only compounded by the easy availability of information, etc.). If you really see a way around the majority of folks defining their lives with govt handouts, I’m dying to know what it is. Call it giving up if you like, I simply see it as accepting the inevitable. It makes preparations much easier.

runawayyyy on August 13, 2012 at 2:47 PM

It most certainly wasn’t a stretch for the Patriots to think they could win their independence.
And much of the public was not very gung ho to fight Britain.
You ought to really read early American history.
There were times when things were downright hopeless.

The emboldened part of your comment is exactly how one defines giving up.
You have given up. You are an uninspired soldier. You plod along & have no fire in your belly.
And you do nothing to inspire others to sway them to change things.
You are just a blob in the middle of the road.
And I’m not certain what preparations you think are going to be necessary.
Bcs if this country were to fall completely to its knees, the only ‘preparations’ that would be helpful is to be able to exist completely off of the grid with zero help from your fellow man.

Badger40 on August 13, 2012 at 2:56 PM

It most certainly wasn’t a stretch for the Patriots to think they could win their independence.

Corrected for its true meaning.
They took a huge risk. Britain had a war machine & we did not.

Badger40 on August 13, 2012 at 2:57 PM

Dems: “Erskine who? Sounds like Urkel!”

Marcola on August 13, 2012 at 3:26 PM

I’ll give you an analogy.
When a rancher weans his calves, he takes them immediately away from their mothers. There are always calves that do not do well & actually die from this process bcs they get sick & no amount of medicine helps them.
There are some calves that if their mothers can be heard nearby will fight like living hell to get back to mom.
The best way I’ve seen to wean calves is by erecting a very strong fence btwn the 2 & let them at least be near mom, but they can’t suck.
This way they at least have that motherly comfort while they learn to be on their own.
Badger40 on August 13, 2012 at 10:27 AM

OT:
You should check out QuietWean. They are plastic nose flaps that prevent the calves from suckling. Put them in for 10 days and turn them back out with momma. Then, when you separate them, no bawling, just immediate eating!

cptacek on August 13, 2012 at 3:57 PM

^I mean, put them in, turn them out with momma for 10 days, then separate them, take the flaps out, and keep them separate.

cptacek on August 13, 2012 at 3:58 PM

Cow-raisin’ tips! Is this going to be like plumbing night was?

slickwillie2001 on August 13, 2012 at 4:15 PM

Sorry. Thought she might be interested. I did at least put the OT in there…

cptacek on August 13, 2012 at 4:46 PM

cptacek on August 13, 2012 at 4:46 PM

I was celebrating, not complaining.

slickwillie2001 on August 13, 2012 at 6:10 PM

I think you didn’t mean what you just wrote. Mankind has always transferred wealth from one generation to another. That’s not a progressive evil.

Gelsomina on August 13, 2012 at 1:17 PM

Actually I did mean exactly what I wrote. In the past, the wealth has been transferred forward, to the new generation. Instead, what we have is a society that is eating the seed corn as they retire and leave their offspring worse off than they otherwise would have been.

astonerii on August 13, 2012 at 9:21 PM

Bcs if this country were to fall completely to its knees, the only ‘preparations’ that would be helpful is to be able to exist completely off of the grid with zero help from your fellow man.

Badger40 on August 13, 2012 at 2:56 PM

Why? Because all humans are evil enough to kill you for what you have?

astonerii on August 13, 2012 at 9:25 PM

Badger40 on August 13, 2012 at 2:56 PM

I’m very familiar with early American history. Take your condescension and shove it.

As tough as the Brits thought they were, they still had an ocean between them and the new world. You do understand what an ocean as big as the Atlantic looked like to a military commander in 1776, right? We’re talking about the state of the art in troop transport being run on wind power. WIND POWER. Logistically speaking, it was a nightmare. They ruled the colonies through fear, nothing more. Once the patriots figured this out, they knew they could beat the Brits. There’s your history lesson. I’m talking facts. You’re talking about what you think everyone at the time felt (“hopeless”? Really? How could you possibly know this?)

Tell ya what, your turn in the history chair. Name a free country in history that didn’t devolve (or get forced) into tyranny. Just one.

Once you realize how impossible that task is, ask yourself why you blindly believe we are, and will be, the only exception ever, especially given what we’re seeing right in front of our eyes. Ignore the history unfolding before you all you want. I’m preparing.

runawayyyy on August 14, 2012 at 4:30 PM

I’m very familiar with early American history. Take your condescension and shove it.

As tough as the Brits thought they were, they still had an ocean between them and the new world. You do understand what an ocean as big as the Atlantic looked like to a military commander in 1776, right? We’re talking about the state of the art in troop transport being run on wind power. WIND POWER. Logistically speaking, it was a nightmare. They ruled the colonies through fear, nothing more. Once the patriots figured this out, they knew they could beat the Brits. There’s your history lesson. I’m talking facts. You’re talking about what you think everyone at the time felt (“hopeless”? Really? How could you possibly know this?)

Tell ya what, your turn in the history chair. Name a free country in history that didn’t devolve (or get forced) into tyranny. Just one.

Once you realize how impossible that task is, ask yourself why you blindly believe we are, and will be, the only exception ever, especially given what we’re seeing right in front of our eyes. Ignore the history unfolding before you all you want. I’m preparing.

runawayyyy on August 14, 2012 at 4:30 PM

I’ve read a lot of it myself.
It’s unfortunate a reminder regarding how hopeless the war effort back then was at one time makes you pi$$ your pants in anger.
And WTF said I was ignoring history anyway?
You are nothing but a negative pessimistic blight upon this country.
Take your pessimistic negativity & shove that right up your anal sphincter.
It’s doing NO ONE any good.
If we fail, at least we fought a good positive fight as we circled the drain.
And I never said ignore $hit & not to prepare.
What I am saying, and I’ll say it again bcs you are obviously too dim to understand my point and that is:
Start emphasizing the POSITIVE and maybe that will change people to do good.
You’ll notice it is some Thomas Jefferson himself did. He always strove to emphasize the positive, even though things were circling the drain.
Take a tip from a brilliant founding father & pull your head out of the dark place of doom & CHOOSE to be a little less pessimistic.

I can only surmise life with you must be one depressing day after another.
Sheez.

Badger40 on August 14, 2012 at 7:16 PM

You’re talking about what you think everyone at the time felt (“hopeless”? Really? How could you possibly know this?)

runawayyyy on August 14, 2012 at 4:30 PM

And listen up, there were times when the colonies were at a great disadvantage & hardly in a good place to wage war.
A lot of things went their way.
And regarding ‘feeling’, YES doofus, that also has a lot to do with how wars are won & lost.
And YES doofus, the ‘feelings’ of people back during that time are actually recorded in many historical documents like letters & documents & newspapers.
This is why primary source material in history is important.
But go ahead & continue being a negative dumba$$.

Badger40 on August 14, 2012 at 7:19 PM

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