My turn to pick a bit. The concentration of the hydrogen ion is the important part not the source.

chemman on July 25, 2012 at 3:44 PM

Heh, yep! Read this to the tune of It’a all About the Benjamins song: “it’s all about the hydronium ion…it’s all about the hydronium ion baby…”

That’s just one of the things that Gov. Tim Pawlenty and the Democrats signed into law for us here in Minnesota.

Of course carbonic acid is not as destructive as sulfuric.
But ALL rainwater is naturally acidic.

Badger40 on July 25, 2012 at 11:56 AM

My turn to pick a bit. The concentration of the hydrogen ion is the important part not the source.

Hey, let’s make electricity from burning wood! Got lots of forests out west for fuel!

Marcola on July 25, 2012 at 1:03 PM

Too late, the forests out west have already burned thanks to the “good intentions” of the enviro-nazi’s not allowing common sense management of said forests…

KOOLAID2 on July 25, 2012 at 12:38 PM

I am referring to the byproducts.

Oil & ethanol, I doubt it really matters what gets poured into the ground.
Bcs there is really no way to evaluate all spills considering local conditions vary greatly.
Depends on your moisture, soil etc.
Actually, it would be interesting to see a research study on this.

Actually Badger, it is true. Ethanol is much more miscible with water, oil is not and is much easier to separate from water should contamination occur.

Liberty or Death on July 25, 2012 at 12:21 PM

I guess I was not referring to the ethanol itself.
I was referring to the byproducts OF ethanol.

I fully understand the chemistry of ethanol & water.
It’s why small engines are plagued with problems bcs of ethanol fuel mixtures.

I don’t wanna pick. But that just simply is not true.
The oil would be worse.

Badger40 on July 25, 2012 at 11:05 AM
Yep, I’m not a supporter of ethanol-from-corn, but the concept is bad enough that we don’t have to propagate myths either, and there are plenty.

slickwillie2001 on July 25, 2012 at 11:52 AM

…I have to get a hold of my sis-in-law who was a chemical and environmental engineer for Chrysler and was involved with ethanol see where she obtained her info…yeah maybe not as bad has pouring oil directly into the ground…but it’s not good!
Start out with (I’ll get her info when I can-I was rather shocked) http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/10/071010120538.htm

I don’t wanna pick. But that just simply is not true.
The oil would be worse.

Badger40 on July 25, 2012 at 11:05 AM

Actually Badger, it is true. Ethanol is much more miscible with water, oil is not and is much easier to separate from water should contamination occur.

Should a water source be contaminated with ethanol it will take much more time, effort and money to remediate. It’s much like many years back when the enviro-nazis forced refineries to place an additive into gasoline to make it burn cleaner. The refineries wanted more time to study what additive would be the best to use but the enviro-nazi’s accused them of stalling, took them to court and essentially forced them to make a quick decision instead of being allowed to conduct studies on what would be the best additive.

So the refineries chose MTBE (Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether) which turned out to be extremely miscible with water (much more so than ethanol) and low and behold now we have lots of ground water contaminated with MTBE that is extremely difficult to remediate due to MTBE’s miscibility with water!

This type of mindset is very typical of the enviro-nazi; they approach environmental protection from emotion and not sound science. In addition as oil can points out; it’s not really about saving the planet:

Green = Communist

It’s about controlling your behavior, spending habits, and lifestyle, and wallet. It has nothing to do witht he environment.

Oil Can on July 25, 2012 at 10:55 AM

The fact the enviro-nazi’s aren’t up in arms about biomass electrical plants polluting the air and solar plants being placed in forests says a lot about what hypocrites they are…I mean what about the poor desert hare and the coyote…isn’t their habitat important enough to protect from the invasion of all those solar panels?

And those solar panels which will save the Earth, jam-packed with chemicals and substances which are so poisonous that hazmat procedures are necessary if they spill.

I have an idea, let’s burn more corn, wasting our food when we are swimming in oil is the way to go.

Bishop on July 25, 2012 at 10:47 AM

Not trying to call you out, but could you provide a link for that statement. I was under the understanding that the solar panels are solid. Now the manufacturing process may be poisinous as he**, but the panels I thought were dry.

As a sideline, when I was in school, for my senior level college economics course, I did a paper on solar power. One of the issues (granted it was back in the late 70′s) my research brought up was that solar farms added to the thermal “pollution” wherever they wre set up, but since most are set up in hot sunny places….

We didn’t build Solyndra, everybody helped.

Herb on July 25, 2012 at 11:54 AM

Threadwinner!

GEES. I mean, this technology has been around for like 50 years.

Acid rain is caused by sulfur dioxide emissions which react with rain water to form dilute sulfuric acid. Total sulfur dioxide emissions have DECREASED over the past 40 years (due to controls) while fossil-fuel use has INCREASED. So these subsidized biofuels are now INCREASING acid rain?

Steve Z on July 25, 2012 at 11:33 AM

Let us also not forget than acid rain is also caused by natural reasons. Like CO2 from volcanic emissions.
Of course carbonic acid is not as destructive as sulfuric.
But ALL rainwater is naturally acidic.

and…what’s left over when they make ethanol from corn…is environmentally worse than pouring a barrel of oil directly into the ground above your well water.

KOOLAID2 on July 25, 2012 at 10:57 AM

I don’t wanna pick. But that just simply is not true.
The oil would be worse.

Badger40 on July 25, 2012 at 11:05 AM

Yep, I’m not a supporter of ethanol-from-corn, but the concept is bad enough that we don’t have to propagate myths either, and there are plenty.

Statist policies hurt the poor!?! Say it aint so!

Hurt the poor? Merely a temporary inconvenience in suffering and an acceptable but necessary treatment in creating our Statist Utopia to come, where all but those on the highest rung of Utopian society will be equal in poverty.

Biomass qualifies as renewable energy because organic waste is easily and infinitely replenished, and gets to fly under the flag of ‘carbon-neutral’ because such materials would slowly decay over time and emit the same amount of carbon as instantaneous burning, albeit at a much more gradual pace — but with the frequent sulfur, carbon monoxide, and various other air-pollutant violations, is the juice really worth the squeeze?

Interesting……

This sounds like a political decision, not a scientific fact

I know, I can hear it…..they’re all political decisions.

have an idea, let’s burn more corn, wasting our food when we are swimming in oil is the way to go.

I suspect when our economy has been destroyed by our statists ands their allies, government will take over our domestic energy sources and the oil will flow like the old days.

Its all a matter of who controls ownership, power and profit.