Hickenlooper: Tougher gun laws wouldn’t have stopped Aurora shooter

posted at 4:01 pm on July 24, 2012 by Mary Katharine Ham

The Colorado governor said this on CBS’ “Face the Nation,” Sunday but it’s worth flagging a) because the utterly predictable gun-control discussion is ongoing and Hick is another guy with a less-than-utterly-predictable position and b) what are the chances you watched “Face the Nation?”

And, because Hickenlooper’s a Democrat in Colorado, his absolute moral authority shield is engaged:

“This person, if there were no assault weapons available, if there were no this or no that, this guy’s going to find something, right? He’s going to know how to create a bomb. Who knows where his mind would have gone. Clearly a very intelligent individual however twisted,” Hickenlooper said during an interview on CNN’s “State of the Union.”

The governor, who appeared on at least three Sunday morning talk shows, said his administration “will try to create some checks and balances on these things, but it is an act of evil.”

“If it was not one weapon, it would have been another, and he was diabolical,” he said.

Hooray for common sense, says the WSJ.

I am interested to hear how all these new gun-control proposals are going to stop a Ph.D. student in neuroscience from finding or making whatever he desires to kill a large number of people. I’d bet he’s devious enough to even find a gun in the famously gun-free paradise that is Chicago if he really wanted one.

Those harkening back to the good ol’ days of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban must wrestle with the fact that the law wouldn’t have likely changed Holmes’ artillery much. That’s because Congress outlawed 19 weapons by name plus any semiautomatic gun with a combination of several cosmetic features they found sorta creepy—bayonet mounts, telescoping stocks, pistol grips, etc. As a result, gun manufacturers simply started manufacturing guns with the exact same capacity as the guns the law banned, merely removing the mostly cosmetic features of an “assault weapon.” Holmes could have had one of those guns or any of the guns the law banned, as long as they were manufactured before 1994. He also could have legally bought any number of so-called “high-capacity” magazines, as long as they were produced before 1994.

Fellow North Carolinian Bob Owens, who knows his firearms, has a great piece on the basics of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban and its silliness— Part 1 and Part 2, if you’d like to gird yourself for the ideological battle you’ll be doing. It was from Owens that I learned my handgun is a species of highly concealable subcompact gun spawned by Congress’ arbitrary limit of 10 rounds per magazine. So, thanks, I guess? And, for good measure, here’s a thoughtful gun-control advocate lamenting the ban for pretty much the exact same reasons, but using them to advocate for bigger and better gun control.

I know it makes people feel better, particularly liberals and politicians, in the wake of a national tragedy to pass some kind of law or lambast some industry or product. It makes them feel like they’ve done something. But the things liberals want to do to prevent gun violence demonstrably don’t help, and they limit the freedoms of law-abiding citizens. Perhaps a discussion of mental illness and its recognition would be helpful, but making people like me reload every 10 shots at the firing range won’t do it.

Huffington Post says Hick and the Aurora mayor “dodged” the Sunday show questions by focusing on the perpetrator:

Aurora Mayor Steve Hogan, who appeared alongside Hickenlooper on the show, placed the blame on alleged shooter James Holmes as well, rather on the need for stricter gun laws.

Um, yes, because that’s where normal people place the blame. The fact that Hickenlooper, a former mayor of liberal Denver, reacts this way is a sure sign of the politics of this issue in a place like Colorado, where even Democratic voters insist their politicians not go all Bloomberg’s Recipe for Anarchy on them.

Current Denver Mayor Michael Hancock, also a fairly liberal Democrat, gave a speech last week that struck me as another indication of the contrast between an average swing-state audience and national liberal politicians, like the president. Hancock’s state of the city address included this plea for support of a tax hike. And, when I say plea, I mean it, because a Taxpayers Bill of Rights requires Hancock to rebate taxes to his constituents unless otherwise authorized not to at the ballot box. Here he is demonstrating the proper posture of a politician talking to taxpayers—pointing to results and begging for their indulgence:

Denver, we are currently facing another one of those pivotal moments. Throughout this recession, we have aggressively eliminated waste and reduced costs. We’ve worked to sustain our rainy day fund, maintain the highest possible bond rating and keep the City’s budget balanced, closing gaps of nearly $450 million over the past four years.

But with another nearly $100 million shortfall looming next year, we must face reality.

The time has come to deliver for our citizens a long-term, sustainable and smart solution. I will soon submit to the City Council and the people of Denver a balanced plan to fix our budget and get back on track. It’s not smart to rebate money while cutting basic services. We must remove the fiscal handcuffs of TABOR.

By retaining revenue we already collect, just like hundreds of other communities and school districts in Colorado, we can make smart investments in our city. We can hire police officers for the first time in four years. We can repave the quarter of our streets that have not been fixed in two decades. We can restore library hours and create jobs by better supporting Denver businesses.

Compare that to Obama’s version of asking nicely:

There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me — because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t — look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something — there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. (Applause.)

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

Exit question (Allahpundit Trademark): Which Glock do you think George Stephanopoulos owns?


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oh OH!…He’s a Dem!

KOOLAID2 on July 24, 2012 at 4:04 PM

Exit question (Allahpundit Trademark): Which Glock do you think George Stephanopoulos owns?

…Georgie is lucky if he even has a pee pee shooter!

KOOLAID2 on July 24, 2012 at 4:06 PM

Here’s a thought. What if Holmes hadn’t got his hands on those guns? Would he have used those bombs instead? If so, way more than 12 people would’ve died.

Doughboy on July 24, 2012 at 4:06 PM

OT: Saw MKH on O’Reilly last night battling Juan “Wrong” Williams. Nice job, MKH!!

Bitter Clinger on July 24, 2012 at 4:06 PM

You lie!! /Jason Alexander

changer1701 on July 24, 2012 at 4:07 PM

I am interested to hear how all these new gun-control proposals are going to stop a Ph.D. in neuroscience

Hold on there, MKH. He was a 2nd year graduate student pursuing a PhD in neuroscience. He wasn’t even considered a “PhD candidate” yet because he likely failed his comp exams. Thus, he is as much a PhD as Obama is a professor.

ted c on July 24, 2012 at 4:07 PM

…Hick better hope Mitt gets elected…cause the D.C. dingbats aren’t going to give him money now!

KOOLAID2 on July 24, 2012 at 4:08 PM

The fact remains that, for the more equal Pigs, who would lord over us, just as for the Nazis and the Communists:

The private possession of firearms is anathema.

The more equal Pigs know the purpose of the Second Amendment – and they fear it.

OhEssYouCowboys on July 24, 2012 at 4:09 PM

Yes, I should say Ph.D. “student.”

Mary Katharine Ham on July 24, 2012 at 4:09 PM

Exit question (Allahpundit Trademark): Which Glock do you think George Stephanopoulos owns?

he can’t find his a$$ with his hands, let alone handle a glock.

ted c on July 24, 2012 at 4:09 PM

NO it wouldn’t hickenlooper! When has the ‘bad guys’ ever worried about gun laws to get what they want? And if the ‘bad guys’ worried about getting guns, holder/friends would see to it they get them?

Stop this krap about gun laws, we need a law that every citizen HAS a gun to protect themself from ‘bad guys’ and big bro!
L

letget on July 24, 2012 at 4:09 PM

I am interested to hear how all these new gun-control proposals are going to stop a Ph.D. in neuroscience from finding or making whatever he desires to kill a large number of people. I’d bet he’s devious enough to even find a gun in the famously gun-free paradise that is Chicago if he really wanted one.

Those harkening back to the good ol’ days of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban must wrestle with the fact that the law wouldn’t have likely changed Holmes’ artillery much.

Now, now, now, MKH, you are overlooking the critical role that the Federal Assault Weapons Ban had in leading to 1996 arrest of Ted Kaczynski, Ph.D.!

Without it, he would still be in his cabin in Montana, frantically and futilely, trying to figure out other ways to kill people with a big “L” tattooed on his forehead.

Resist We Much on July 24, 2012 at 4:10 PM

yes, PhD student or “doctoral student” are both appropriate. Homeboy ain’t PhD until UCOLO says so….

ted c on July 24, 2012 at 4:10 PM

Ham-time, I really can’t believe that the liberal Utopia that is Colorado has so many of these sorts of mass killings whereas other more gun-friendly states don’t. How about that?

dgarone on July 24, 2012 at 4:11 PM

With a name like Hickenlooper he must have been the baddest dude on the playground.

He’s got my respect. :)

itsspideyman on July 24, 2012 at 4:13 PM

Ask George Wallace (or John Lennon for that matter) how much the tough gun laws enacted after the 1968 shootings made things better.

Del Dolemonte on July 24, 2012 at 4:13 PM

now, Ted Kaczynski was a PhD. He was also mentally ill. There is no correlation.
/

ted c on July 24, 2012 at 4:13 PM

Because killers are killers.

chewydog on July 24, 2012 at 4:13 PM

Every time a leftist brings up gun control the counter argument that all adults be required to own and carry sidearms and long rifles should be made.

NotCoach on July 24, 2012 at 4:14 PM

Anders Breivik killed 77 people and Norway has some of the most Draconian gun laws in the world. What more needs to be said?

Kataklysmic on July 24, 2012 at 4:14 PM

Tracking homicides in Chicago, the most gun unfriendly place in America.

Look what all else it produced, for utter disgust.

Schadenfreude on July 24, 2012 at 4:15 PM

Tough gun laws are ONLY against the good citizens/people.

Schadenfreude on July 24, 2012 at 4:15 PM

Huffington Post says Hick and the Aurora mayor “dodged” the Sunday show questions by focusing on the perpetrator:

Aurora Mayor Steve Hogan, who appeared alongside Hickenlooper on the show, placed the blame on alleged shooter James Holmes as well, rather on the need for stricter gun laws.

How does someone get this stupid?

There are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual could believe them. – George Orwell

sharrukin on July 24, 2012 at 4:16 PM

Exit question (Allahpundit Trademark): Which Glock do you think George Stephanopoulos owns?

Which ever one is likest to blow up in your face…

E L Frederick (Sniper One) on July 24, 2012 at 4:18 PM

Hey liberals, shut your yaps. You have 52 million (and counting )innocent lives that you fail to account for. You can look no further than your abortion mills for innocent blood. You have placed such a low price on life, why does this surprise you?

crosshugger on July 24, 2012 at 4:19 PM

There you people go again – clinging. You just have to keep clinging, don’t you?

I bet that you just can’t wait to bring up “God.”

You anti-intellectual, hillbillies, you.

/

OhEssYouCowboys on July 24, 2012 at 4:19 PM

There are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual could believe them. – George Orwell

sharrukin on July 24, 2012 at 4:16 PM

Brilliant.

Intellectuals can’t stand Orwell…..

Wonder if he’s still read in high school, or is he an un-person?

itsspideyman on July 24, 2012 at 4:19 PM

Re: Exit question.

A chrome, pearl handled, .25 Beretta with a garter holster?

thatsafactjack on July 24, 2012 at 4:20 PM

I bet that you just can’t wait to bring up “God.”

OhEssYouCowboys on July 24, 2012 at 4:19 PM

Actually yes. I was just wondering if God carries on his hip, or a shoulder holster.

NotCoach on July 24, 2012 at 4:21 PM

Neither would armed civilians. With that kind of body armor the NRA argument just falls apart. The fact of the matter is that there is NO solution to mass murder – not gun control, and not mass civilian gun ownership. It’s just something we have to live with in this mad, post-modern world.

ernesto on July 24, 2012 at 4:22 PM

crosshugger on July 24, 2012 at 4:19 PM

Don’t forget the tens of millions who’ve perished in the leftist, Utopian gulags, and because of the mass starvation that always accompanies their collectivist malignancy … usually by design.

OhEssYouCowboys on July 24, 2012 at 4:22 PM

Great to see some people with common sense speaking the truth. Contrast this with that idiot Bloomberg.

KMC1 on July 24, 2012 at 4:23 PM

Snuffelufagus? A snubnose 38.

Red Creek on July 24, 2012 at 4:25 PM

Wonder if he’s still read in high school, or is he an un-person?

itsspideyman on July 24, 2012 at 4:19 PM

He’s still there, they just pretend he was talking about the right-wing in all his books.

sharrukin on July 24, 2012 at 4:25 PM

Exit question (Allahpundit Trademark): Which Glock do you think George Stephanopoulos owns?

#6 The potato shooter glock. Comes with two extra large Idahos.

Blake on July 24, 2012 at 4:26 PM

I keep reading elsewhere that he was part of Occupy San Diego. Any truth to that?

faraway on July 24, 2012 at 4:26 PM

Methinks his first shot to the ceiling was his “anybody else here with a gun?” shot.
Once he found out he had no ‘armed’ resistance .. boom !

pambi on July 24, 2012 at 4:27 PM

ernesto, you’re an idiot. You put on “body armor” and let me shoot you with a decent cal. handgun and see if you’re not looking up at the ceiling…

chewydog on July 24, 2012 at 4:27 PM

Exit question (Allahpundit Trademark): Which Glock do you think George Stephanopoulos owns?

Sidebar:

I always call him Staphylococcus.

OhEssYouCowboys on July 24, 2012 at 4:27 PM

faraway on July 24, 2012 at 4:26 PM

Have read that it’s another James Holmes.
Sorry no links.

pambi on July 24, 2012 at 4:28 PM

Neither would armed civilians. With that kind of body armor the NRA argument just falls apart. The fact of the matter is that there is NO solution to mass murder – not gun control, and not mass civilian gun ownership. It’s just something we have to live with in this mad, post-modern world.

ernesto on July 24, 2012 at 4:22 PM

Read this post at AoSHQ. I personally don’t trust any information concerning the “facts” of this case as reported by the media. If journalists had real jobs they would all be unemployed considering their error rates.

NotCoach on July 24, 2012 at 4:29 PM

Neither would armed civilians. With that kind of body armor the NRA argument just falls apart.

Which is proven by the fact that when US soldiers in body armor are shot at that doesn’t interfere with their aim at all. Heck I bet they don’t even bother to take cover at all.

The fact of the matter is that there is NO solution to mass murder – not gun control, and not mass civilian gun ownership. It’s just something we have to live with in this mad, post-modern world.

ernesto on July 24, 2012 at 4:22 PM

There will always be attacks of this nature, but civilian gun ownership can, and has prevented some from being much worse than they otherwise would have been.

sharrukin on July 24, 2012 at 4:29 PM

“Background checks for people wanting to buy guns in Colorado jumped more than 41 percent after Friday morning’s shooting at an Aurora movie theater, and firearms instructors say they’re also seeing increased interest in the training required for a concealed-carry permit…”

Read more: Aurora theater shooting: Gun sales up since tragedy – The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_21142159/gun-sales-up-since-tragedy#ixzz21ZeSEpAN
Read The Denver Post’s Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

Liberals will be very upset by this development

workingclass artist on July 24, 2012 at 4:31 PM

Anybody heard anything from those around Holmes at the University of CO..? Not private student information but info about his state of mind..? What were his plans after withdrawing from the PHD program?

d1carter on July 24, 2012 at 4:32 PM

Liberals will be very upset by this development

workingclass artist on July 24, 2012 at 4:31 PM

Probably the entire Colorado government should go on strike until all Coloradans surrender their liberties to Mayor Bloomersburg

NotCoach on July 24, 2012 at 4:33 PM

He’s still there, they just pretend he was talking about the right-wing in all his books.

sharrukin on July 24, 2012 at 4:25 PM

Here’s another for you:

“One has to belong to the intelligentsia to believe things like that: no ordinary man could be such a fool.”

– George Orwell, 1945

Resist We Much on July 24, 2012 at 4:33 PM

b) what are the chances you watched “Face the Nation?”

Um, sorry, I missed it this week.

Stephanpoopulous probably owns some nickel plated sissy pistol.

oldroy on July 24, 2012 at 4:35 PM

Just use the same argument libs use for illegal immigration. How are you gonna get rid of all the guns that are already out there?

The Notorious G.O.P on July 24, 2012 at 4:35 PM

“One has to belong to the intelligentsia to believe things like that: no ordinary man could be such a fool.”

– George Orwell, 1945

Resist We Much on July 24, 2012 at 4:33 PM

And its true. A very smart man is capable of convincing others and himself of things that may not be true. Someone blinded by an ideology not rooted in reality is almost certain to do this.

sharrukin on July 24, 2012 at 4:37 PM

Just use the same argument libs use for illegal immigration. How are you gonna get rid of all the guns that are already out there?

The Notorious G.O.P on July 24, 2012 at 4:35 PM

They want you to line up and turn your gun(s) in. And then turn your neighbour in if he didn’t.

oldroy on July 24, 2012 at 4:37 PM

There will always be attacks of this nature, but civilian gun ownership can, and has prevented some from being much worse than they otherwise would have been.

sharrukin on July 24, 2012 at 4:29 PM

Not more than a week or so prior the 71-year-old in the internet cafe. How many deaths or injuries were prevented there?

kim roy on July 24, 2012 at 4:38 PM

“Ernesto”

Get your body armor and stand in front of my .45. I won’t penetrate your chest, and may only cause “superficial” damage to your legs, but when I hit your groin, protector or not, you’ll feel like it was a baseball bat. You’ll probably be down on the ground if I’m sloppy, otherwise nothing you can wear will keep that slug out of your head.

You watch too much Hollywood and don’t have a clue about guns.

CrazyGene on July 24, 2012 at 4:39 PM

The fact of the matter is that there is NO solution to mass murder – not gun control, and not mass civilian gun ownership. It’s just something we have to live with in this mad, post-modern world.

ernesto on July 24, 2012 at 4:22 PM

Mass murder is preceded by gun control. What a wonderful pawn of the public school system, you’ve been.

Germans who wish to use firearms should join the SS or the SA – ordinary citizens don’t need guns, as their having guns doesn’t serve the State. – Heinrich Himmler

The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors, who have allowed their subject races to carry arms, have prepared their own downfall by so doing. – Adolph Hitler

Only an armed society can be the real bulwark of popular liberty. – Vladimir Ilyich Lenin

A system of licensing and registration is the perfect device to deny gun ownership to the bourgeoisie. – Vladimir Ilyich Lenin

Every good Communist should know that political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. The Communist party must control the guns. – Mao Tse-Tung

Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas? – Joseph Stalin

If the opposition disarms, well and good. If it refuses to disarm, we shall disarm it ourselves. – Joseph Stalin

OhEssYouCowboys on July 24, 2012 at 4:39 PM

Neither would armed civilians. With that kind of body armor the NRA argument just falls apart. The fact of the matter is that there is NO solution to mass murder – not gun control, and not mass civilian gun ownership. It’s just something we have to live with in this mad, post-modern world.

ernesto on July 24, 2012 at 4:22 PM

Please explain your theory.

New reports say that the psycho was NOT wearing body armor, just a tactical shooting vest, basically a vest to hold his spare ammunition magazines. Report out today shows the receipt for the purchase of a “Blackhawk Urban Assault Vest”, but no body armor. As can be expected during the initial panic by the victims describing what they saw, combined with the ever ready to distort media it is likely that they saw the gunman wearing all black with the tactical vest and assumed that it was body armor. The report I read was in the St Louis Today stltoday.com. Ace has a post about this. I would normally include the link but my work server is not being nice to me.

If he was not wearing body armor then any lawfully CCW person in that theater would have ended the event much sooner with fewer casualties.

Hell, I say even with the body armor a CCW person would have made the situation less deadly. 2 to the head, 1 to the chest.

D-fusit on July 24, 2012 at 4:42 PM

Wow, happy to see, since he’s my Governor. He must have remembered his anti-Liberal-Talking-Points pill today.

kirkill on July 24, 2012 at 4:42 PM

Resist We Much on July 24, 2012 at 4:33 PM

And, another:

That rifle on the wall of the labourer’s cottage, or working class flat, is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there. – George Orwell

OhEssYouCowboys on July 24, 2012 at 4:42 PM

ted c on July 24, 2012 at 4:07 PM

Ted C is right again.

TC knows his stuff.

SparkPlug on July 24, 2012 at 4:44 PM

NotCoach on July 24, 2012 at 4:29 PM

As I was busy typing my screed, you beat me to it. HT and sorry ’bout that

D-fusit on July 24, 2012 at 4:44 PM

Not more than a week or so prior the 71-year-old in the internet cafe. How many deaths or injuries were prevented there?

kim roy on July 24, 2012 at 4:38 PM

Precisely. The massacre that never took place isn’t that big of a news item.

sharrukin on July 24, 2012 at 4:45 PM

As I was busy typing my screed, you beat me to it. HT and sorry ’bout that

D-fusit on July 24, 2012 at 4:44 PM

No need to apologize. Thick individuals need to be told numerous times.

NotCoach on July 24, 2012 at 4:45 PM

Ham-time, I really can’t believe that the liberal Utopia that is Colorado has so many of these sorts of mass killings whereas other more gun-friendly states don’t. How about that?

dgarone on July 24, 2012 at 4:11 PM

Colorado is still purple, NOT blue, not yet anyway. And except for the city and county of Denver (ironically), we have pretty lax gun laws, as it should be. My son had no trouble buying an M4 at 19 and will be getting a pistol and CCW as soon as he turns 21. He’s a chip off the block of my brother who has, not just a gun cabinet, but a gun ROOM. All legal. Just don’t drive through Denver with your weapons in your truck.

As for Hickenlooper, although he does have some common sense to him, he’s still a liberal who marches closely with the Dem leaders. Given his background – geologist, brewpub owner, 2-term mayor of Denver and now governor, I’m sure he’ll show up on the national scene someday soon. He has a great mix of private and public leadership that would make him the perfect POTUS candidate. He also has an easy-going demeanor that’s very popular here. Check out some of his commercials on YouTube.

It’s too bad Republicans couldn’t find a candidate like that. Oh, right, they did, Gary Johnson, but couldn’t be bothered to keep him in the GOP because he’s a libertarian.

Common Sense on July 24, 2012 at 4:46 PM

Neither would armed civilians. With that kind of body armor the NRA argument just falls apart.

ernesto on July 24, 2012 at 4:22 PM

Wasn’t aware that body armor was foolproof.

Del Dolemonte on July 24, 2012 at 4:47 PM

Neither would armed civilians. With that kind of body armor the NRA argument just falls apart. The fact of the matter is that there is NO solution to mass murder – not gun control, and not mass civilian gun ownership. It’s just something we have to live with in this mad, post-modern world.

ernesto on July 24, 2012 at 4:22 PM

Mass murder is rare. And most mass murders are committed against the most vulnerable groups of people by cowards who wouldn’t do it if those people weren’t vulnerable in the first place.

Our problem is our Utopian Ideologies that do not equate being vulnerability with making one’s self a target.

This chuckle-head would never have attached the theater if he thought someone would shoot back at him. Same goes for most of the mass murders over the years. As soon as the cops show up they give up because even though they aren’t afraid to kill they are afraid to die.

Lawrence on July 24, 2012 at 4:48 PM

Ham-time, I really can’t believe that the liberal Utopia that is Colorado has so many of these sorts of mass killings whereas other more gun-friendly states don’t. How about that?

dgarone on July 24, 2012 at 4:11 PM

Notice the shootings where many people got killed or wounded (this one and Columbine) have been in the Denver area – which is much more liberal and less “gun-friendly”.
In Colorado Springs, El Paso County, we have mandatory issue concealed carry – apply with a clean record and proper training and the sheriff cannot deny. We had one shooting a feww years ago – the psycho at New Life church. He got a few people in the parking lot, but a security guard with concealed carry and police background inside the church took him down when he entered.
Law-abiding citizens with legal concealed carry could have stopped this latest psycho before he got so many people.

dentarthurdent on July 24, 2012 at 4:48 PM

I never met a Hickenlooper I didn’t like.

SparkPlug on July 24, 2012 at 4:48 PM

Throw away the cabbage. Just give me more Ham.

SparkPlug on July 24, 2012 at 4:49 PM

chewydog on July 24, 2012 at 4:27 PM

Beautiful.

+100

HomeoftheBrave on July 24, 2012 at 4:51 PM

If someone had a gun they could have stopped the shooter.

The shooter was only wearing a black vest.

SparkPlug on July 24, 2012 at 4:52 PM

Neither would armed civilians. With that kind of body armor the NRA argument just falls apart. The fact of the matter is that there is NO solution to mass murder – not gun control, and not mass civilian gun ownership. It’s just something we have to live with in this mad, post-modern world.

ernesto on July 24, 2012 at 4:22 PM

I agree with your last sentence – but you’re wrong on the rest.
The damage could have been reduced by people with legal concealed carry. There’s a reason ALL of these types of shootings take place in “gun free” areas – nobody to shoot back.
Latest word is he only had a “tactical vest” – meaning nylon, not really body armor. Anyway his face was only covered by a gas mask which any decent caliber could have penetrated. Also his arms, hips and legs were not fully covered, so a shot to any of those could have stopped him or at least taken him off his feet.

dentarthurdent on July 24, 2012 at 4:53 PM

George doesn’t own or carry any gun, his body guards carry for him. He’s in the elite crew…….

angrymike on July 24, 2012 at 4:56 PM

Neither would armed civilians. With that kind of body armor the NRA argument just falls apart. The fact of the matter is that there is NO solution to mass murder – not gun control, and not mass civilian gun ownership. It’s just something we have to live with in this mad, post-modern world.

ernesto on July 24, 2012 at 4:22 PM

As D-fusit says, it wasn’t body armor. But even it it was, body armor isn’t “bulletproof”. Ask our guys in the Middle East.

According to my brother, a gun expert, his .357 may not have gone all the way through body armor, but it would have packed a strong enough punch to knock him down for the killing blow. Especially since he was pretty inexperienced with weapons and doesn’t seem to have the Navy SEAL physique (they don’t go down so easily).

As for civilian gun ownership, tell that to the old guy who chased the armed punks out of the Internet cafe or the woman who saved people in the Springs by shooting it out with the deranged killer. Or how about the 14-year-old kid who saved himself and his siblings when armed robbers were breaking into their home?

Heritage (I think), maintains a map of reports of people who’s lives were saved because they had a gun. Here’s another list Guns Save Lives

Advice on how to protect yourself and possible stop a gunman Navy SEAL Lessons Learned

Cops can’t save you, only you can save yourself and your loved ones.

Common Sense on July 24, 2012 at 4:58 PM

Native Denverite here. Hickenlooper’s observation shocked me . He is VERY liberal on all other social and political issues.

Zanne on July 24, 2012 at 5:00 PM

Notice the shootings where many people got killed or wounded (this one and Columbine) have been in the Denver area – which is much more liberal and less “gun-friendly”.

I don’t know about Arapahoe County’s laws (Aurora) but Columbine happened in Jefferson County and the laws here are no more strict than in the Springs.

Denver is definitely NOT the same as Aurora, Jeffco, the Springs, or anywhere else in the state except for maybe The People’s Republic of Boulder.

The real connection is that the shootings happened in Sitting Duck Zones, i.e. places that are known for banning legally carried guns.

Common Sense on July 24, 2012 at 5:03 PM

Native Denverite here. Hickenlooper’s observation shocked me . He is VERY liberal on all other social and political issues.

Zanne on July 24, 2012 at 5:00 PM

Ya – that was my reaction too (Colorado Springsian here). I definitely did NOT vote for him, but the Colorado Republican party pretty well screwed up the last governor’s race.

dentarthurdent on July 24, 2012 at 5:03 PM

Native Denverite here. Hickenlooper’s observation shocked me . He is VERY liberal on all other social and political issues.

Zanne on July 24, 2012 at 5:00 PM

Guns really are a toxic issue for Democratic pols. The only ones yammering for gun control are the few politicians who represent extremely leftists districts, politicians who have nothing to lose (Mayor Bloomers), or leftist political commentators spouting their ignorance for all to see. Americans will not be disarmed and politicians know the score.

NotCoach on July 24, 2012 at 5:06 PM

Common Sense on July 24, 2012 at 5:03 PM

Ya – in general, Colorado is not nearly as lib leaning as it appears in the national elections – which favors Denver/Boulder just because of numbers.
I don’t know just what all the other counties really do, but I know what El Paso county has.

dentarthurdent on July 24, 2012 at 5:07 PM

As for Hickenlooper, although he does have some common sense to him, he’s still a liberal who marches closely with the Dem leaders. Given his background – geologist, brewpub owner, 2-term mayor of Denver and now governor, I’m sure he’ll show up on the national scene someday soon. He has a great mix of private and public leadership that would make him the perfect POTUS candidate. He also has an easy-going demeanor that’s very popular here. Check out some of his commercials on YouTube.

Ever since his first term as mayor it’s been clear that Hickenlooper would make a very strong national candidate if the Democrats ever moved back to the center. It’s unfortunate that we bungled the last Governor’s race so badly and allowed him to move up when an R should have won going away. We might have stopped his political career but instead we enabled his rise and may live to regret it nationally. He would be a Republican in many other states but, you’re right, he is a true Democrat.

Long Legged MacDaddy on July 24, 2012 at 5:07 PM

The real connection is that the shootings happened in Sitting Duck Zones, i.e. places that are known for banning legally carried guns.

Common Sense on July 24, 2012 at 5:03 PM

Yup – I’ve mentioned that piece just too many times already in the last few days, so I just pointed to another factor this time around.

dentarthurdent on July 24, 2012 at 5:09 PM

As others have said, Aurora had tougher gun laws.

As for “toxic”. I disagree. It isn’t toxic, it is giving your overseer complete power, gladly. The dems don’t see gov’t as set up to run riot, sad, but true.

Limerick on July 24, 2012 at 5:10 PM

Funny name, common sense.

And he makes some tasty beer!

CTSherman on July 24, 2012 at 5:13 PM

Ham-time, I really can’t believe that the liberal Utopia that is Colorado has so many of these sorts of mass killings whereas other more gun-friendly states don’t. How about that?

dgarone on July 24, 2012 at 4:11 PM

With the exception of the City and County of Denver, Colorado is an open carry state. How about that!

jdkchem on July 24, 2012 at 5:14 PM

Just more political hype by the ultra-left. At least it’s nice to know some Democratic leaders show a little common sense. Unfortunately, they are few and far between the current regime. I guess they believe democrats don’t own weapons. I wonder how it feels to live in a vacuum. And yes, exactly who does the Left think the NRA is? My guess would be millions of gun owners living in America. Not the evil Strawman.

DDay on July 24, 2012 at 5:14 PM

Get your body armor and stand in front of my .45. I won’t penetrate your chest, and may only cause “superficial” damage to your legs, but when I hit your groin, protector or not, you’ll feel like it was a baseball bat. You’ll probably be down on the ground if I’m sloppy, otherwise nothing you can wear will keep that slug out of your head.

You watch too much Hollywood and don’t have a clue about guns.

CrazyGene on July 24, 2012 at 4:39 PM

That, of course, presumes that someone in that theater is packing a hand cannon for their night on the town, as opposed to something a little more sensible/lighter.

And what I base my judgement of urban shootouts involving body armor is, in fact, North Hollywood, and the bank robbery there in 1998(?). Those guys had multiple officers shooting at them with police issue 9mm, and it wasn’t until LAPD brought in long guns that they went down.

JohnGalt23 on July 24, 2012 at 5:14 PM

Limerick on July 24, 2012 at 5:10 PM

Gun control is a toxic issue for the average Democrat’s political career.

NotCoach on July 24, 2012 at 5:16 PM

That, of course, presumes that someone in that theater is packing a hand cannon for their night on the town, as opposed to something a little more sensible/lighter.

And what I base my judgement of urban shootouts involving body armor is, in fact, North Hollywood, and the bank robbery there in 1998(?). Those guys had multiple officers shooting at them with police issue 9mm, and it wasn’t until LAPD brought in long guns that they went down.

JohnGalt23 on July 24, 2012 at 5:14 PM

But in the case you mention they really were fully armored up – head to toe.
In this case it has already been reported that he did NOT in fact have body armor – just a nylon tactical vest. So a .38 could have taken him down. BUT – that theater is a “no weapon” zone – even with a legal concealed carry permit.

dentarthurdent on July 24, 2012 at 5:19 PM

Hickenlooper: Tougher gun laws wouldn’t have stopped Aurora shooter

Maybe NOT putting signs up that say “gun free zone” (AKA “victim-rich zone) might have given the perp enough discomfort to not do the attack. This little nebish was wearing bullet resistant vest and other protective clothing, he was not anxious to die. A handfull of trained, concealed carriers could have knocked him down in very short order.

My company just recently put us signs by all entrances to our buildings that weapons, licensed/concealed or no, are forbidden on the premises. This is a legal prohibition for a concealed carrier. So now any thug can rest assured that anyone entering or exiting our building is an easy victim. Senseless. Why can’t we leave them wondering?

iurockhead on July 24, 2012 at 5:21 PM

And what I base my judgement of urban shootouts involving body armor is, in fact, North Hollywood, and the bank robbery there in 1998(?). Those guys had multiple officers shooting at them with police issue 9mm, and it wasn’t until LAPD brought in long guns that they went down.

JohnGalt23 on July 24, 2012 at 5:14 PM

There is a difference between being dead and being able to casually fire on people in a theater. If you are busy trying to avoid getting shot, you aren’t shooting at the victims who ended up dead.

sharrukin on July 24, 2012 at 5:21 PM

Neither would armed civilians. With that kind of body armor the NRA argument just falls apart. The fact of the matter is that there is NO solution to mass murder – not gun control, and not mass civilian gun ownership. It’s just something we have to live with in this mad, post-modern world.

ernesto on July 24, 2012 at 4:22 PM

Short of full-on EOD style Armor, even the crap he was wearing (not TRUE Armor, but wth) 3-4 body hits from ONE pistol of the proper size may have either:

A -Slowed him down enough that a follow-up shot could stop him from killing others…

or B – Distract him enough being in a gunfight against armed civilians that would allow the *innocent* ones to escape.

Yes, there is possibility that more people could have been hurt, OTOH, with a crowd of that many, if there were at least (on average) 3 civilian trained shooters in there, this may have had a different ending.

BlaxPac on July 24, 2012 at 5:21 PM

I’ve been to that theater. The way the lines go, the shooter could have killed many more people at one time had he driven a large truck into the lobby while people were in line for the movie. (Could have even done that with a legally obtained vehicle.) The main deterrent to such shootings would be if the theaters allowed conceal carry. (The shooter at New Life Church probably figured nobody would be armed at a church.) Even with all the body armor, people shooting back at him would hurt enough that he would have most likely been either knocked down or rapidly moving out the door and away from the return fire.

dwurst on July 24, 2012 at 5:24 PM

Read this post at AoSHQ. I personally don’t trust any information concerning the “facts” of this case as reported by the media. If journalists had real jobs they would all be unemployed considering their error rates.

NotCoach on July 24, 2012 at 4:29 PM

Yep. The ‘whole body armor’ story needs to be fixed. So much bad information, on which all the theories of how it could have been prevented are based.

slickwillie2001 on July 24, 2012 at 5:27 PM

Neither would armed civilians. With that kind of body armor the NRA argument just falls apart.

ernesto on July 24, 2012 at 4:22 PM

Wasn’t aware that body armor was foolproof.

Del Dolemonte on July 24, 2012 at 4:47 PM

Typical leftist. Doesn’t understand how guns work. Doesn’t understand how body armor works.

Probably thinks nuclear weapons are launched by pushing a little red button on the President’s nightstand.

CurtZHP on July 24, 2012 at 5:33 PM

Hell, I say even with the body armor a CCW person would have made the situation less deadly. 2 to the head, 1 to the chest.

D-fusit on July 24, 2012 at 4:42 PM

Not even that, say he was in head-toe, elite body armor, just the fact he was being engaged by another shooter is going to have the suspect having to focus on return fire and free up time for others to escape, prayerfully without consequence of cross-fire. Any hit he takes from a projectile will also be, at minimum, a jolting and distracting event.

hillsoftx on July 24, 2012 at 5:33 PM

“If it was not one weapon, it would have been another, and he was diabolical,” he said.

I appreciate what he’s saying about the nature of the guy, and about the nature of random acts by violent nutcases.
But he wrong – it would not have been ‘another’.
It’s reported that his gun jammed – and that’s when he stopped shooting. He had 100 round clip – could fire 50-60 rounds per minute.
(I expect to be corrected/educated on this by the gun experts that frequent these threads – but at this point that does seem to generally be what went down.)
The Gabby Gifford shooter was tackled when he paused to reload – after emptying a 31 round clip.
There almost zero technical knowledge or skill needed to use these weapons. Building a bomb is not exactly as easy as pulling a trigger (over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again).
It’s desperation to suggest that these weapons and accessories are not the most contributing factor to the level of carnage.
Wanna make some argument that this is the price we pay for freedom or something…ok.
But let’s not pretend this guy could have done this without these particular kinds of weapons being easily available to him.

verbaluce on July 24, 2012 at 5:33 PM

meci on July 24, 2012 at 4:31 PM

Wouldn’t have prevented it, but might have mitigated it.

chemman on July 24, 2012 at 5:37 PM

But let’s not pretend this guy could have done this without these particular kinds of weapons being easily available to him.

verbaluce on July 24, 2012 at 5:33 PM

By the time the car came to a halt, ten people had been killed and 63 were injured.

sharrukin on July 24, 2012 at 5:38 PM

verbaluce on July 24, 2012 at 5:33 PM

The perp. had the chemistry and biology background to make other types of weapons. I certainly can with my chemistry and microbiology background. So yes the governor was correct this time.

chemman on July 24, 2012 at 5:40 PM

Short of full-on EOD style Armor, even the crap he was wearing (not TRUE Armor, but wth) 3-4 body hits from ONE pistol of the proper size may have either:

A -Slowed him down enough that a follow-up shot could stop him from killing others…

or B – Distract him enough being in a gunfight against armed civilians that would allow the *innocent* ones to escape.

Yes, there is possibility that more people could have been hurt, OTOH, with a crowd of that many, if there were at least (on average) 3 civilian trained shooters in there, this may have had a different ending.

BlaxPac on July 24, 2012 at 5:21 PM

Agreed.

IMO, this nut was no warrior, he was a coward. Tough guys take a hit and keep coming. The full body armor supports he was afraid of taking a hit.

My guess is that if someone would have put a round in him it would have stunned him long enough for others to jump him or others to escape. If someone could have put one in the face or neck, even with the armor, the shock would have incapacitated him.

itsspideyman on July 24, 2012 at 5:41 PM

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