Rapper Ice-T defends gun rights: “The last form of defense against tyranny”

posted at 5:21 pm on July 23, 2012 by Erika Johnsen

Huh. Quite a cogent argument from Ice-T, the self-described “godfather of gangsta rap,” defending Americans’ gun rights following the shooting in Colorado on Friday.

“It’s legal in the United States,” the rapper said. “The right to bear arms is because that’s the last form of defense against tyranny. Not to hunt. It’s to protect yourself from the police.”

“And do you see any link between that and this sort of instance?” Guru-Murthy challenged.

“No. Not really,” Ice-T responded. “If somebody wants to kill people, they don’t need a gun to do it.”

“Makes it easier though, doesn’t it?” the host pushed back.

“Not really. You can strap explosives on your body. They do that all the time.”

Well, shoot — he just succinctly summed up what I believe to be two of the most powerful and well-reasoned arguments in support of the Second Amendment. Firstly, yes, if a person wants to go on a murderous rampage, guns can make that endeavor more expedient — but it’s a two-way street. Guns also make defense more expedient. People use guns defensively more frequently than they do to commit crimes, and oftentimes nonviolently so — just letting an intruder or attacker see that you have a gun can be enough.

Secondly, if you ever try to tell me that the United States government could never be capable of nefarious acts of deceit or violence, just because ‘this is America’ and we’re in ‘modern times’ and ‘that could never happen’ or whatever lame reasoning you can think up for not possessing the means to fight tyranny — I will literally laugh in your face. Those are the notions of a spoiled, passive ignoramus who can’t be roused to the reality that liberty requires constant vigilance. Do we really not have enough examples of modern governments suppressing, abusing, and murdering their own unarmed citizens to debunk such a stupidly trusting, falsely comforting perception? A government should always, always, always fear its people — and for that matter, other countries should to some degree fear abusing other peoples, too. I know this quote is unsubstantiated, but I still love it:

“You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.


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Secondly, if you ever try to tell me that the United States government could never be capable of nefarious acts of deceit or violence, just because ‘this is America’ and we’re in ‘modern times’ and ‘that could never happen’ or whatever lame reasoning you can think up for not possessing the means to fight tyranny — I will literally laugh in your face. Those are the notions of a spoiled, passive ignoramus who can’t be roused to the reality that liberty requires constant vigilance.

Erika, you’ve got spunk.

ted c on July 23, 2012 at 5:27 PM

If she attempts to make that point in the comments, however, it will get filtere out. LOL

SirGawain on July 23, 2012 at 6:10 PM

calling into question the reporting of a network that has already been marred by one inaccuracy.

Axe on July 23, 2012 at 6:09 PM

Have you read this article of mine yet?

SWalker on July 23, 2012 at 6:11 PM

Ka-boom! Awesome! :)

cynccook on July 23, 2012 at 6:08 PM

LOL….

The Truth Is Out There.

BlaxPac on July 23, 2012 at 6:13 PM

Maybe the smaller town and rural police might say that, but certainly not the larger metro police. Look not further than the gun confiscations that occurred after hurricane Katrina if you want evidence of that.

SWalker on July 23, 2012 at 6:01 PM

Thanks for that, two points:

Anyone that says, “That can’t happen here, read what this person just said.”

And second, You are correct. Larger departments tend to have larger numbers of less intelligent or professional cops. It’s simple math: 10% of officers are complete dingbats. Agency with 200 officers = 20 dingbats Agency with 2000 officers, at least 200 dingbats.
(If I remember correctly, though…lots of folks who stayed in NO told the cops to pound sand…which is why they got so edgy.) But fortunately, not ALL the NO cops went completely batshit when things got tough.

a5minmajor on July 23, 2012 at 6:13 PM

And if that happens, some hard decisions will have to be made.

sharrukin on July 23, 2012 at 5:51 PM

If it happens, it is way too late. Better to make sure it doesn’t happen. I know this isn’t a popular position here, but, if they have the legal means to take your guns,…they will do so, successfully. They won’t allow the opportunity for a shoot out, or whatever else I see being advocated here. If guns are outlawed, they will have them, or you will go to prison or be dead. Period. They wrapped it up with a neat ribbon in Aussieland. If they are given the legal opportunity, they won’t blow the tactical side of it.

a capella on July 23, 2012 at 6:16 PM

Ice T is right and well spoken.

Small critique. It’s 2012 now. He needs to update his screen name. Willard Smith doesn’t still call himself the Fresh Prince.

BoxHead1 on July 23, 2012 at 6:17 PM

I got my twelve gauge sawed off.
I got my headlights turned off.
I’m ’bout to bust some shots off.
I’m ’bout to dust some cops off.

Cop killer, better you than me.
Cop killer, f**k police brutality!
Cop killer, I know your family’s grievin’
(f**k ‘em)
Cop killer, but tonight we get even.

mmhmm. Guy is my 2nd amendment spokesperson.

lorien1973 on July 23, 2012 at 6:18 PM

mmhmm. Guy is my 2nd amendment spokesperson.

lorien1973 on July 23, 2012 at 6:18 PM

Yeah. So there’s that.

cynccook on July 23, 2012 at 6:20 PM

Nugent: “O yeah man. Anyway, bring the wife. Gonna rock this pool party thing.”

Axe on July 23, 2012 at 6:22 PM

Police, maybe. An actual tyranny though?

Good luck with your small guns standing up to a $600 billion a year giant, which can take on all armies of the world combined. That argument worked back when well regulated armed militia was put on paper. The ship has long sailed.

Not that I think our armed forces would turn on our own people. There’s no indication of it today, not even a signal of a trend, not even isolated incidents. Unless you’re Alex Jones.

Stick to defense of self, loved ones and property against your “average agressor”. That’s a fair argument.

[lester on July 23, 2012 at 5:50 PM]

The interview was what it was, considering the shortness of it, and it’s still accurate. I’m sure if asked to elaborate, Ice-T would have spoke about the deterrent affect of owning firearms, not the inference that ownership of them would be enough to win a fight against the Leviathan.

Just having the natural right acknowledged in the Constitution and reaffirmed by the Supreme Court provides sustenance to the attitudes of the people in opposing tyrannical behavior by government and gives government officials pause in their consideration of such behavior.

Speaking to that reason for gun ownership often forces those in government not to forget it.

Dusty on July 23, 2012 at 6:23 PM

Have you read this article of mine yet?

SWalker on July 23, 2012 at 6:11 PM

No. Ah, I see. K, in line behind Resist’s.

Axe on July 23, 2012 at 6:24 PM

If it happens, it is way too late. Better to make sure it doesn’t happen. I know this isn’t a popular position here, but, if they have the legal means to take your guns,…they will do so, successfully.

I agree with you but that isn’t the end of it. There won’t be many shootouts because the individual who is being targeted will be alone and it would be suicide.

They won’t allow the opportunity for a shoot out, or whatever else I see being advocated here. If guns are outlawed, they will have them, or you will go to prison or be dead. Period. They wrapped it up with a neat ribbon in Aussieland. If they are given the legal opportunity, they won’t blow the tactical side of it.

a capella on July 23, 2012 at 6:16 PM

Again all true. The real fight will take place after with weapons they didn’t get or know about and what can be brought in or produced locally. A lot will depend on how it happens as well as the political meaning attached to the sweep.

People will have to form resistance groups before anything real starts happening, and those will be supported by sympathizers who help when they can.

It won’t be a re-enactment of the Scarface shootout.

sharrukin on July 23, 2012 at 6:24 PM

two comments as I drive by here…Cause I gotta go to bed.

One: I’ve got to go buy some Ice-T records. I like what he is saying there on this interview (not a fan of the cop killing songs though)

Two: He is absolutely right as far as guns, as I sit over here in Afghanistan. It is NOT guns that are killing Americans, Coalition partners, and Afghan Forces. It is IEDs and suicide bombers as he mentioned. If someone wants you dead they’ll find the means to make that happen UNLESS you are armed and prepared then the person usually backs down…THAT is why it is important to be armed.

Gun laws do NOTHING against criminals and we as conservatives and GUN OWNERS need to start to step up and be more vocal. When we are disarmed it is LIBERALISM that is literally killing us!!!

Good nite from the Hindu Kush.

g2825m on July 23, 2012 at 6:27 PM

If she attempts to make that point in the comments, however, it will get filtere out. LOL

SirGawain on July 23, 2012 at 6:10 PM

LOL.

Dusty on July 23, 2012 at 6:27 PM

mmhmm. Guy is my 2nd amendment spokesperson.

lorien1973 on July 23, 2012 at 6:18 PM

As his rights guaranteed by the 1st.

He doesn’t have to be Wayne La Pierre, but at least he’s articulating a POV that *everyone* that believes in the 2nd Amendment stands for…regardless of their political bent.

If Ice-T believes sleeping with a semi-auto copy of a AK with a bayonet makes him safe, so be it. If he wanted the full auto, and he had a Class III and wasn’t a criminal…let him at it.

Yes, I draw the line at everyone getting their own self propelled howitzer…

…although i must say, I rather enjoy mine…its FUN!

BlaxPac on July 23, 2012 at 6:28 PM

[g2825m on July 23, 2012 at 6:27 PM]

Be safe. And thanks.

Dusty on July 23, 2012 at 6:29 PM

“Concerning nonviolence: It is criminal to teach a man not to defend himself, when he is the constant victim of brutal attacks. It is legal and lawful to own a shotgun or a rifle. We believe in obeying the law.”

Malcolm X

Texastoast on July 23, 2012 at 6:31 PM

The pigs at ABC lied about more than the Tea party.

Schadenfreude on July 23, 2012 at 5:58 PM

Schadenfreude:Thats what I read,on the news feeds,ABC stated,
from the mother.

The Lefty MSM needs to be reined in,this is nuts!:)

canopfor on July 23, 2012 at 6:32 PM

canopfor on July 23, 2012 at 5:47 PM

haha. You are a snark-machine and a linky-machine. (:

SparkPlug on July 23, 2012 at 6:07 PM

SparkPlug:Haha,lets roll:)

canopfor on July 23, 2012 at 6:34 PM

Of all the caliber guns the nazi-obama types go after, there’s one they for sure will never foresee and will never get…..

the potato gun.

Deadly in just about every form. No defense against it, unless you’re driving an armored vehicle that is. If not, it’ll take your head clean off. Look out if the user is launching an explosive too, you’re likely to become a human bomb and take out 10 of your own people if hit by one.

obamacommie’s nazi army wouldn’t have a prayer against weapons like that unless he just ordered the killing of all citizens flat out. I could see it, but then who would he be dictator over? Nobody of any import.

Wolfmoon on July 23, 2012 at 6:35 PM

People will have to form resistance groups before anything real starts happening, and those will be supported by sympathizers who help when they can. It won’t be a re-enactment of the Scarface shootout.

sharrukin on July 23, 2012 at 6:24 PM

Yes, I could see that happening.

a capella on July 23, 2012 at 6:35 PM

Dusty on July 23, 2012 at 6:29 PM

Thanks!

We need to make sure we are starting to turn people’s NEGATIVE views on guns over the last couple of decades back to where they were before where guns were commonly seen in truck gun racks and people did not freak out at the site of ANY gun. I am sure that there were gun owners in that audience and they were thinking IF I only had my gun right now I would take down this evil piece of crap! but because of liberalism it is LITERALLY killing our citizens and we CANNOT stand for this ANYMORE starting with this event!!!

okay, good night again.

Thanks, Dusty, for your support!

g2825m on July 23, 2012 at 6:35 PM

Yes, I draw the line at everyone getting their own self propelled howitzer…

…although i must say, I rather enjoy mine…its FUN!

BlaxPac on July 23, 2012 at 6:28 PM

Howitzer elitist… ;P

SWalker on July 23, 2012 at 6:36 PM

I got my twelve gauge sawed off.
I got my headlights turned off.
I’m ’bout to bust some shots off.
I’m ’bout to dust some cops off.

Cop killer, better you than me.
Cop killer, f**k police brutality!
Cop killer, I know your family’s grievin’
(f**k ‘em)
Cop killer, but tonight we get even.

mmhmm. Guy is my 2nd amendment spokesperson.

lorien1973 on July 23, 2012 at 6:18 PM

Here’s the thing: substitute “cop” for “TSA child molester” or “ATF gun runner”. See if it elicits the same reaction.

There are a lot of good cops…and a lot of bad cops. And some of those bad cops are really, really bad.

MadisonConservative on July 23, 2012 at 6:39 PM

Would they turn on our current President if he lost the upcoming election and then refused to leave office?

Del Dolemonte on July 23, 2012 at 5:54 PM

Your imagination is running rampant again.

lester on July 23, 2012 at 6:39 PM

Your imagination is running rampant again.

lester on July 23, 2012 at 6:39 PM

Our imaginations were really running wild during Waco and Ruby Ridge, weren’t they?

MadisonConservative on July 23, 2012 at 6:41 PM

mmhmm. Guy is my 2nd amendment spokesperson.

lorien1973 on July 23, 2012 at 6:18 PM

Yeah. So there’s that.

cynccook on July 23, 2012 at 6:20 PM

He’s a total ahole and he made his money with the devils help. But he was just an entertainer, not some leader of armed gang or revolution. Not much different(less talented) then Scorsese who glamorized thugs and killers in good fellas and casino. I once heard that Frank Sinatra was a friend of thugs, killers and psychopathic bullies. People love the rat pack.

Ice T was paid to act like a street thug. I never liked the glamorization of viscous bullies and drug dealers but a lot of entertainers do it. Maybe cop killer was too much but Scarface(new Pachino) had evil cops in league with the drug trade get shot up…

BoxHead1 on July 23, 2012 at 6:42 PM

He said to defend yourself against the POLICE. I’m not sure he equates to protecting oneself from unlawful government action. Especially an unlawful Obama government.

chickasaw42 on July 23, 2012 at 6:45 PM

I TOTALLY CALLED IT when I said the best thing about the 90′s was rap music.

:-)

ImageSniper on July 23, 2012 at 6:45 PM

That isn’t the experience the Soviets had in Afghanistan, nor the American one in Afghanistan today.

sharrukin on July 23, 2012 at 5:54 PM

Different situation. If we wanted to, we could deal with opposition very differently than today. If we know there’s Taliban in a town:

1- We send in men to seek them and take them out
2- We ask the townspeople to hand them over in the next hour or be flattened along with them

We (fortunately) opt for the first one. Even soviets, though more heavy handed, had to pretend to care. In the case of a tyranny that doesn’t care about the people, like the North Koreans, civilian armed opposition is a minor discomfort at best.

lester on July 23, 2012 at 6:47 PM

Different situation. If we wanted to, we could deal with opposition very differently than today. If we know there’s Taliban in a town:

1- We send in men to seek them and take them out
2- We ask the townspeople to hand them over in the next hour or be flattened along with them

We (fortunately) opt for the first one. Even soviets, though more heavy handed, had to pretend to care. In the case of a tyranny that doesn’t care about the people, like the North Koreans, civilian armed opposition is a minor discomfort at best.

lester on July 23, 2012 at 6:47 PM

Do you think the Assad government in Syria has a warm and fuzzy approach to life? They seem perfectly willing to get nasty and its still not working. The civilian armed opposition there is more than a minor discomfort to Assad.

The North Korean civil population is unarmed and the Syrian rebels are reasonably well armed.

sharrukin on July 23, 2012 at 6:56 PM

social con schism. The purpose of guns to protect yourself from the police? I thought the police represented the good guys in their narrative? Now, they are the actual threat?

I can understand a rapper being anti-police, they sing about shooting cops, so I don’t think Ice T’s endorsement of gun rights is really what social cons like it to be.

keep the change on July 23, 2012 at 7:02 PM

social con schism. The purpose of guns to protect yourself from the police? I thought the police represented the good guys in their narrative? Now, they are the actual threat?

Sorry that real life isn’t a cheap morality play, but the police are generally the good guys in a decent society. In an indecent society they start becoming the bad guys. They are instruments of law enforcement, and they will enforce good laws and bad laws.

I can understand a rapper being anti-police, they sing about shooting cops, so I don’t think Ice T’s endorsement of gun rights is really what social cons like it to be.

keep the change on July 23, 2012 at 7:02 PM

His endorsement of the second amendment is what we agree, but that does not translate to approval of his entire life.

sharrukin on July 23, 2012 at 7:08 PM

Our imaginations were really running wild during Waco and Ruby Ridge, weren’t they?

MadisonConservative on July 23, 2012 at 6:41 PM

Oh! Hi Tim.

lester on July 23, 2012 at 7:09 PM

Secondly, if you ever try to tell me that the United States government could never be capable of nefarious acts of deceit or violence, just because ‘this is America’ and we’re in ‘modern times’ and ‘that could never happen’ or whatever lame reasoning you can think up for not possessing the means to fight tyranny — I will literally laugh in your face. Those are the notions of a spoiled, passive ignoramus who can’t be roused to the reality that liberty requires constant vigilance.

^This is why you’re awesome :D

Mr. Prodigy on July 23, 2012 at 7:10 PM

Oh! Hi Tim.

lester on July 23, 2012 at 7:09 PM

Oh! Hi Josef.

MadisonConservative on July 23, 2012 at 7:11 PM

sharrukin on July 23, 2012 at 6:24 PM

There’s that, and the other point that few will bring up.

The guns won’t be pointed at the authorities… they’ll be pointed at the political overlords hiding behind the authorities.

The Colonials didn’t tar and feather the King’s soldiers… they reserved that honor for the King’s agents.

CPT. Charles on July 23, 2012 at 7:16 PM

If there’s one thing I never thought I’d see in the US in my lifetime it’s any part of the government arresting Christians for merely meeting privately to read the Bible; this was done in Arizona by creating zoning laws and then defining people reading the Bible together as a “church” and then holding the hosts reponsible for complying with buiding requirements established for churches. (If this had simply been a large weekly Sunday-morning football party instead of a Bible study, the zoning laws wouldn’t have applied.)

When the husband presented himself at the police station, he was told to return home, and then was arrested at his house, presumably as a humiliation, and as a demonstration of force to the community.

Meanwhile cops are breaking into homes without identifying themsleves and shooting whoever inside has a gun. One man, a combat veteran, was awakened by his wife that there were people breaking into their home, he hid them in the closet and picked up his rifle. The police entered by breaking down the door (despite not having a no-knock warrant) and did shoot the husband — 26 times, as I recall reading. He never even took the safety off. And they never found any of the drugs they were looking for.

And the government cripples the economy, forcing more and more people onto government hand-outs, and as corruption at the highest levels increases, we draw farther and farther from the great freedoms and the “rule of law” that this country once enjoyed, and closer to the serfdom that the so-called “elites” desire.

It’s all one. And Ice-T is right.

flicker on July 23, 2012 at 7:19 PM

If I am not mistaken, the Indiana Supreme Court agrees with him almost verbatim.

Having said that, I think he’s a maggot and I’ll be rooting for the cops if he ever decides to act out his punk-a$$ rhetoric.

Jaibones on July 23, 2012 at 7:22 PM

Ice T was paid to act like a street thug. I never liked the glamorization of viscous bullies and drug dealers but a lot of entertainers do it. Maybe cop killer was too much but Scarface(new Pachino) had evil cops in league with the drug trade get shot up…

BoxHead1 on July 23, 2012 at 6:42 PM

Sorry, my friend, but you’ve got it bass ackwards. Wiki his bio. He was a thug who got in the news because he was openly advocating violence against the establishment. Then — and I know this part seems hard to believe, but — Hollyweird decided that he should be chosen to become rich and famous in film and on television.

cynccook on July 23, 2012 at 7:23 PM

Oh! Hi Josef.

MadisonConservative on July 23, 2012 at 7:11 PM

Goebbels or Stalin? Or are they interchangeable?

cynccook on July 23, 2012 at 7:24 PM

Weird. I posted, but it’s gone. Blown away, even. I will echo Erika’s sentiments though. As a student of both history and the law, I am quite familiar with the importance and meaning behind the Second Amendment.

Othniel on July 23, 2012 at 7:25 PM

social con schism. The purpose of guns to protect yourself from the police? I thought the police represented the good guys in their narrative? Now, they are the actual threat?

I can understand a rapper being anti-police, they sing about shooting cops, so I don’t think Ice T’s endorsement of gun rights is really what social cons like it to be.

keep the change on July 23, 2012 at 7:02 PM

I agree that IceT is a ahole who made his money by peddling gangster crap. I hate the glamorization of thugs like in the Sapranos. SCorsese and DePalma , though incredibly talented, are more responsible for promoting the cop hating anti hero then IceT.

And some cops are great and I wouldn’t want any killed but in many places in the world the police are abusing an unarmed populous.

BoxHead1 on July 23, 2012 at 7:25 PM

There’s that, and the other point that few will bring up.

The guns won’t be pointed at the authorities… they’ll be pointed at the political overlords hiding behind the authorities.

The Colonials didn’t tar and feather the King’s soldiers… they reserved that honor for the King’s agents.

CPT. Charles on July 23, 2012 at 7:16 PM

If it happens it won’t be that easy. There will be good people on both sides just like there is in any civil conflict, regardless of its nature. We won’t be able to just fight the guys in charge. There will be police and soldiers who will back a dictatorial regime because they believe in law and order, even if they don’t agree with many things that regime is doing.

The colonials didn’t tar and feather the kings soldiers but they most certainly shot them.

Here’s hoping it never happens.

sharrukin on July 23, 2012 at 7:26 PM

Goebbels or Stalin? Or are they interchangeable?

cynccook on July 23, 2012 at 7:24 PM

The Georgian spelling should be a clue.

MadisonConservative on July 23, 2012 at 7:28 PM

Good luck with your small guns standing up to a $600 billion a year giant, which can take on all armies of the world combined.

Do you honestly believe the military leaders, much less the rank-and-file, would turn their guns on the US citizenry? Good luck with that belief. They would be joining the armed citizens of this country if it came down to it.

slug on July 23, 2012 at 7:29 PM

I have hope for Ice-T.
Think Jon Lovitz.
;-)

pambi on July 23, 2012 at 7:30 PM

Do you think the Assad government in Syria has a warm and fuzzy approach to life? They seem perfectly willing to get nasty and its still not working. The civilian armed opposition there is more than a minor discomfort to Assad.

The North Korean civil population is unarmed and the Syrian rebels are reasonably well armed.

sharrukin on July 23, 2012 at 6:56 PM

Assad is more cautious than his father, at least for now. Daddy hit Hama so bad it took opposition 20 years to stand up again. He buried 3 times as many civilians in a month than Bashar’s done in 10+ months. He pulls something like that, he loses Russia and China, he’s finished.

North Koreans are hungry and severely brainwashed. They seem to not have the desire/will/energy to revolt, guns won’t help the cause.

Again, it’s all opinions and hypotheses but I doubt in the unlikely case of a tyranny AR-15s are going to save us. And as technology advances, it could only get worse (drones, etc.)

There’s a good (cancelled prematurely) TV series called Jericho which explores a somewhat relevant topic. It’s pseudo-post apocalyptic and probably not an image of reality but rough simulation. Towns can defend themselves against bad guys but when army shows up, good and bad guys both put their guns down and obey.

lester on July 23, 2012 at 7:31 PM

CPT. Charles on July 23, 2012 at 7:16 PM

Well, yeah. That was kind of the point in my original post.

I hate to be picky, but, his idea of tyranny seeems a bit simplistic. Occupational hazard?

a capella on July 23, 2012 at 5:39 PM

a capella on July 23, 2012 at 7:31 PM

Someone send the following to the that frumpy little fruitball furriner interviewer:

“A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”

The War Planner on July 23, 2012 at 7:33 PM

Sorry, my friend, but you’ve got it bass ackwards. Wiki his bio. He was a thug who got in the news because he was openly advocating violence against the establishment.

cynccook on July 23, 2012 at 7:23 PM

So I just read his whole wiki and didn’t find what you suggest. He claims he was a petty criminal after he served in the Army but he way mostly was an aspiring rapper. Give me the quote about how he was a big time political agitator with a following. I couldn’t find it.

BoxHead1 on July 23, 2012 at 7:33 PM

The pigs at ABC lied about more than the Tea party.

[Schadenfreude on July 23, 2012 at 5:58 PM]

Ha! Did I call this or what?

(I think I might have mentioned something similar here at HA, too, but I’m too lazy to look.)

Dusty on July 23, 2012 at 7:34 PM

Do you honestly believe the military leaders, much less the rank-and-file, would turn their guns on the US citizenry? Good luck with that belief. They would be joining the armed citizens of this country if it came down to it.

slug on July 23, 2012 at 7:29 PM

Should you have bothered to read one more line in my comment:

Police, maybe. An actual tyranny though?

Good luck with your small guns standing up to a $600 billion a year giant, which can take on all armies of the world combined. That argument worked back when well regulated armed militia was put on paper. The ship has long sailed.

Not that I think our armed forces would turn on our own people. There’s no indication of it today, not even a signal of a trend, not even isolated incidents. Unless you’re Alex Jones.

Stick to defense of self, loved ones and property against your “average agressor”. That’s a fair argument.

lester on July 23, 2012 at 5:50 PM

lester on July 23, 2012 at 7:38 PM

I’ll also add Matthew Mosk should be fired! I can’t believe he journalistically abused Arlene Holmes in this manner.

Dusty on July 23, 2012 at 7:39 PM

Not that I think our armed forces would turn on our own people. There’s no indication of it today, not even a signal of a trend, not even isolated incidents. Unless you’re Alex Jones.

lester on July 23, 2012 at 5:50 PM

Or unless you’re one of the several dozen men, women, and children burned to death or shot at Waco. But I guess anyone who brings up mass murder, according to you, is a mass murderer themselves.

MadisonConservative on July 23, 2012 at 7:44 PM

Daddy hit Hama so bad it took opposition 20 years to stand up again. He buried 3 times as many civilians in a month than Bashar’s done in 10+ months. He pulls something like that, he loses Russia and China, he’s finished.

True enough, but that doesn’t change the point that weapons in civilians hands are instrumental in overthrowing Assad. He could have stopped this early with a Genghis style massacre, but now its simply too late. Without those guns, the rebels would be gone.

Again, it’s all opinions and hypotheses but I doubt in the unlikely case of a tyranny AR-15s are going to save us. And as technology advances, it could only get worse (drones, etc.)

Yes, but technological advances can work both ways. GPS jammers can be built at home or brought in and they work rather well. Disrupting modern society is getting easier, not more difficult for an insurgency.

There’s a good (cancelled prematurely) TV series called Jericho which explores a somewhat relevant topic. It’s pseudo-post apocalyptic and probably not an image of reality but rough simulation. Towns can defend themselves against bad guys but when army shows up, good and bad guys both put their guns down and obey.

lester on July 23, 2012 at 7:31 PM

Thats not how an insurgency works. Insurgents run away when the armies heavy formations show up.

They attack where the government is weak; where the enemy is strong, they refuse battle; where it is temporarily weak, the guerrillas harass, always ready to run away.

sharrukin on July 23, 2012 at 7:46 PM

MadisonConservative on July 23, 2012 at 7:44 PM

My argument is that it’s already starting to happen on smaller scales everywhere.

http://www.aufamily.com/forums/topic/80331-swat-and-the-second-amendment/

flicker on July 23, 2012 at 7:57 PM

There’s a good (cancelled prematurely) TV series called Jericho which explores a somewhat relevant topic. It’s pseudo-post apocalyptic and probably not an image of reality but rough simulation. Towns can defend themselves against bad guys but when army shows up, good and bad guys both put their guns down and obey.

lester

And if that happens, the Avengers and the X-Men will arrive to save the day.

xblade on July 23, 2012 at 7:57 PM

The Constitution begins “We the people of the United States of America” not “We the government of the United States of America”.

crosspatch on July 23, 2012 at 7:59 PM

So I just read his whole wiki and didn’t find what you suggest. He claims he was a petty criminal after he served in the Army but he way mostly was an aspiring rapper. Give me the quote about how he was a big time political agitator with a following. I couldn’t find it.

BoxHead1 on July 23, 2012 at 7:33 PM

He was definitely a bad guy at one point in his life; pimped, pushed drugs, robbed banks, etc. But as far as we know he’s been a law-abiding citizen for over 20 years.

Good Solid B-Plus on July 23, 2012 at 8:00 PM

So I just read his whole wiki and didn’t find what you suggest. He claims he was a petty criminal after he served in the Army but he way mostly was an aspiring rapper. Give me the quote about how he was a big time political agitator with a following. I couldn’t find it.

BoxHead1 on July 23, 2012 at 7:33 PM

You implied that he was only playing at being a thug for ‘entertainment purposes;’ nothing could be further from the truth. I don’t know why you’re going to such great lengths to try to portray him as some paragon of American virtue. Even as recently as this spring he was bragging about being a ‘gangsta’ bank robber:

During an episode of the Adam Carolla Podcast that aired on June 6th, 2012, Marrow admitted that after being discharged from the Army he began a career as a bank robber. Using combat skills allegedly acquired in Army Ranger School, Marrow claimed he and some associates began conducting take-over bank robberies, “…like [in the film] Heat.” Marrow then elaborated, explaining, “Only punks go for the drawer, we gotta go for the safe.” Although Marrow may have been using some artistic license in describing his bank robbing exploits, he also stated he was glad the United States justice system has a statute of limitations, which had likely expired when Marrow admitted to his involvement in multiple Class 1 Felonies in the early- to mid-1970s.

He has never tried to deny his criminal background, so why would you?

cynccook on July 23, 2012 at 8:16 PM

Or unless you’re one of the several dozen men, women, and children burned to death or shot at Waco. But I guess anyone who brings up mass murder, according to you, is a mass murderer themselves.

MadisonConservative on July 23, 2012 at 7:44 PM

I didn’t say he was a mass murderer. I made fun of him because he was trying to throw discussion off-topic. Since I’m writing this he succeeded to some extent. Waco doesn’t constitute armed forces action against the nation. It’s an isolated case of law enforcement making mistakes and a bunch of a$$hats on the other side sacrificing innocent women and children as has been the practice of religious fanatics of all sorts for millennia.

lester on July 23, 2012 at 8:31 PM

Waco doesn’t constitute armed forces action against the nation.

lester on July 23, 2012 at 8:31 PM

Really? Because the tank, sniper-equipped helicopters, flame-friendly CS gas canisters and automatic weapons fooled me.

MadisonConservative on July 23, 2012 at 8:42 PM

Ice-T may be “gangsta”, but he was also in the military.

pjean on July 23, 2012 at 9:19 PM

Ice-T may be “gangsta”, but he was also in the military.

pjean on July 23, 2012 at 9:19 PM

So true! And what a glorious career he had there:

Marrow sold cannabis and stole car stereos for money, but was not making enough money to support his girlfriend and daughter, leading him to join the United States Army for the financial benefits; he served for four years in the 25th Infantry Division.[8][10] Marrow was in a group that were jailed for the theft of an infantry rug.[8] While awaiting trial, he received a $2,500 bonus check, and decided to escape from the jail and desert his Army duties, returning a month later after the rug had been returned.[8] He received an Article 15 non-judicial punishment, and completed Advanced Infantry Training.

cynccook on July 23, 2012 at 9:31 PM

Screw that guy. Only in this liberal infested disgusting world would a network (NBC) hire a guy who performed and celebrated a song called “Cop Killer” to play a cop. Talk about a slap in the face to law enforcement. And so forgive me if I wish him a case of flesh-eating bacteria and could give a flying fig that he allegedly supports the 2nd amendment since he’s talking about shooting cops anyway.

sgtstogie on July 23, 2012 at 10:23 PM

He has never tried to deny his criminal background, so why would you?

cynccook on July 23, 2012 at 8:16 PM

I wrote that he was a petty criminal ahole. I wrote that I hate any glorification of thieves and thugs. I’m just saying that his song “cop killers” wasn’t any worst then glorifying murdering mafiosa in the sopranos or the 80s scarface. His views 20 years latter can be divorced from his bad but not bad bad past. What I have read is that he was a petty thief by his own admission but he was mostly trying to make it in entertainment. I think he was playing at being a violent thug for entertainment purposes.

I’m going to count his 2cnd amendment response as a good thing. If he had beat his hoes or ordered hits then I wouldn’t want to associate with it.

BoxHead1 on July 23, 2012 at 10:46 PM

Your imagination is running rampant again.

lester on July 23, 2012 at 6:39 PM

…faster than molester drools?

KOOLAID2 on July 23, 2012 at 11:18 PM

Police, maybe. An actual tyranny though?

Good luck with your small guns standing up to a $600 billion a year giant, which can take on all armies of the world combined. That argument worked back when well regulated armed militia was put on paper. The ship has long sailed.

Not that I think our armed forces would turn on our own people. There’s no indication of it today, not even a signal of a trend, not even isolated incidents. Unless you’re Alex Jones.

Stick to defense of self, loved ones and property against your “average agressor”. That’s a fair argument.

lester on July 23, 2012 at 5:50 PM

Please name ANY government that has stood against an armed and resistant populace.

Fighton03 on July 23, 2012 at 11:27 PM

lester on July 23, 2012 at 8:31 PM

Oh, so the Davidians set the fires themselves?

Fighton03 on July 23, 2012 at 11:29 PM

There’s a good (cancelled prematurely) TV series called Jericho which explores a somewhat relevant topic. It’s pseudo-post apocalyptic and probably not an image of reality but rough simulation. Towns can defend themselves against bad guys but when army shows up, good and bad guys both put their guns down and obey.

lester

That’s actually fairly realistic, assuming the army isn’t hamstrung by hanky-stomping liberals and ridiculous ROE’s. And since it’s set in a post-apocalyptic world I’m guessing that is NOT the case.

I mean, really, what would be your first reaction to an army convoy rolling into town, locked & loaded for bear? Shoot at tanks and assault-rifle-wielding soldiers with your deer rifle and win a Darwin Award? Or put down your guns and speak very politely to the uniformed bada$$ in charge?

MelonCollie on July 23, 2012 at 11:29 PM

Or put down your guns and speak very politely to the uniformed bada$$ in charge?

MelonCollie on July 23, 2012 at 11:29 PM

If it’s a post apocalyptic world, it’s an unsupported army. Bad news for the ‘army’.

Fighton03 on July 23, 2012 at 11:32 PM

It’s an isolated case of law enforcement making mistakes and a bunch of a$$hats on the other side sacrificing innocent women and children as has been the practice of religious fanatics of all sorts for millennia.

lester on July 23, 2012 at 8:31 PM

Ruby Ridge

Fighton03 on July 23, 2012 at 11:34 PM

If it’s a post apocalyptic world, it’s an unsupported army. Bad news for the ‘army’.

Fighton03 on July 23, 2012 at 11:32 PM

Bad news, yes. But not as bad as you’re thinking.

Also there’s the little fact that, post-apocalypse, people would quickly relearn some appreciation for an armed force with more punch and more range than the local cop shop or whatever militia they could cobble together.

Because without such a force, law & order is basically limited to rifle range around well-enough armed towns.

MelonCollie on July 23, 2012 at 11:36 PM

MelonCollie on July 23, 2012 at 11:36 PM

Does the town ‘support’ the army or are they bandits? that’s my main point. If they arrive and act as occupiers, it’s usually bad news for an independent military unit.

Fighton03 on July 23, 2012 at 11:51 PM

Does the town ‘support’ the army or are they bandits? that’s my main point. If they arrive and act as occupiers, it’s usually bad news for an independent military unit.

Fighton03 on July 23, 2012 at 11:51 PM

Oh I see; I took ‘support’ the wrong way.

MelonCollie on July 24, 2012 at 12:08 AM

Oh I see; I took ‘support’ the wrong way.

MelonCollie on July 24, 2012 at 12:08 AM

yeah, I wasn’t really clear. complicated scenario, but the story usually ends with the armed populace winning.

Fighton03 on July 24, 2012 at 12:23 AM

The WAR on drugs kills more people than these type of incidents. Maybe we should end it instead?

fatlibertarianinokc on July 24, 2012 at 1:21 AM

It can’t happen here because they say so…

RutRoh on July 24, 2012 at 4:34 AM

Problem is Ericka, you’re not old enough to remember this despicable clown of a person also glorified “cop-killing”.

He does not deserve a mention and the “broken-clock” argument applies.

So I don’t care if he got this argument right. When he has advocated for the murder of police officers his statements are both spurious and specious.

Marcus Traianus on July 24, 2012 at 4:59 AM

His views on the constitution are correct, but his last comment about ‘ no justice on stolen land ‘ is completely asinine.

TX-96 on July 24, 2012 at 5:49 AM

This guy wrote the song “Cop Killer” when he was in the band called Body Count. Did you expect him NOT to endorse gun rights?

cornfedbubba on July 24, 2012 at 8:19 AM

Despite the movies, the extended run in Law and Order SVU…Ice T is still being real?

There is hope for America yet.

Ice Cube-Reba 2012.

CorporatePiggy on July 24, 2012 at 8:43 AM

But notice his last quote “you will never have justice on stolen land”…
He thinks this America is “stolen land”, I guess he doesn’t believe in transfer of ownership…ah yes, the ol “Indians” were here first, well, first they did not occupy all of America, second, they were “first”, really? And if they were not, than they are willing to relinquish their rights?

right2bright on July 24, 2012 at 9:15 AM

I appreciate his effort, but not his reasoning. In the greater sense this kind of support probably isn’t all that helpful.

Lawrence on July 24, 2012 at 9:54 AM

obey.

lester on July 23, 2012 at 7:31 PM

It’s a long way from “Hope and Change” to “Obey”.

Yes it is.

And it’s why the 2nd Amendment is so important.

Difficultas_Est_Imperium on July 24, 2012 at 10:25 AM

I got my twelve gauge sawed off.
I got my headlights turned off.
I’m ’bout to bust some shots off.
I’m ’bout to dust some cops off.

Cop killer, better you than me.
Cop killer, f**k police brutality!
Cop killer, I know your family’s grievin’
(f**k ‘em)
Cop killer, but tonight we get even.

mmhmm. Guy is my 2nd amendment spokesperson.

lorien1973 on July 23, 2012 at 6:18 PM

I can see how Ice T could see the actions of the LA Police in the 80s as tyranny. If Tea Party members were being harrassed, beaten, and killed by cops, wouldn’t some people be advocating an agressive response?

Regardless, aren’t people allowed to develop more informed opinions on issues over the decades? Ice T isn’t the same person he was in the 80s; most of us aren’t.

hawksruleva on July 24, 2012 at 10:36 AM

I used to think our guns were essentially to protect us from intruders, robbers, etc. THAT was until some power hungry megalomaniacal, socialist gun-hater stole our country. “We need a civilian force just as powerful, just as well-funded as our military”. Uhhh, WTF?

bob77 on July 24, 2012 at 10:47 AM

He had me until the “stolen land” part at the end. Somebody name a single territory on the face of the earth that wasn’t at some point in history won and taken in battle.

But the dumbfounded silences by the interviewer after every Ice T response was pretty telling – as to his IQ.

michaelthomas on July 25, 2012 at 9:57 AM

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