Free speech in Russia? Ask these punk rock girls.

posted at 5:01 pm on July 21, 2012 by Jazz Shaw

As far as Russia goes, we “tore down that wall.” And the Russians have been occasionally putting on public entertainment spectacles which, on the surface, bear some resemblance to elections. So is freedom ringing in the home of our old cold war nemesis? Freedom of speech doesn’t seem to be, particularly if you’re a member of a certain punk rock band, the name of which I won’t type in here myself.

Three members of female punk group Pussy Riot who derided President Vladimir Putin in a protest in Moscow’s main cathedral had their spell in jail extended by six months on Friday in what their lawyers called a show trial dictated by the Kremlin.

The women, who have been held in pre-trial custody for almost five months, face up to seven years in jail on charges of hooliganism for storming the altar in multi-coloured masks to sing a “punk prayer” to the Virgin Mary to “Throw Putin Out!”

For the time being, I’m just going to assume they really like cats. Who doesn’t like cats?

The original actions of the band members were undoubtedly offensive to some of the Russians in the cathedral – and obviously to the government as well – but the resulting punishment should come as a shock to most Americans. They’ve already spent more time behind bars before even getting a full trial than anyone in the US would get as full punishment for something like this. And I have a feeling that Putin’s folks are far less upset about the sacrilegious nature of the protest than the message they were putting out.

Putin is still holding Russia in an iron grip, either directly or through his puppets. And while they put on a pretty good show for the international media, not much has changed in terms of day to day life for regular Russian citizens. (Though for the well heeled and politically well connected, there are some millionaires being made these days.) But freedom of speech? I’m afraid that’s still a fantasy for Russians.


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Sometimes JPeterman says “comrade” to indicate that he is from that part of the world. He’s — he’s — one of them. :)

Axe on July 21, 2012 at 7:28 PM

I know, but it irks me nevertheless. I dislike that sort of facile closeness. My comrades are chosen by me, not the state.

sharrukin on July 21, 2012 at 7:32 PM

Then you’d be wrong.
Bmore on July 21, 2012 at 7:26 PM

Who would you consider to be the last great punk rock band before its apparent “death”?

jawkneemusic on July 21, 2012 at 7:32 PM

My brother and I hitched a freighter from Estonia to St.Petersburg and planned to stay there and hike around the country for at least a week. We left after a day and a half and hitched a ride with truck driver back into Finland.
JPeterman on July 21, 2012 at 7:15 PM

Is it true that anything outside of a 50 mile radius of Moscow is third world?

Cleombrotus on July 21, 2012 at 7:32 PM

Better still, do you understand what it was?

Bmore on July 21, 2012 at 7:32 PM

Strange bedfellows, though. They arrest Pussy Riot, which is the titular head of a protest movement, in order to end that movement. But the leadership of the Orthodox church is in bed with Putin, so the Pussy Riot riots in a church. So you wind up with Orthodox Christians very unhappy with Pussy Riot, even though they would have very likely enjoyed it if it hadn’t been in church.

And honestly, Putin should be able to see his own impotence, just by looking over the swelling crowds that Pussy Riot inspired.

*sip*

I love this post so much. :)

Axe on July 21, 2012 at 7:37 PM

Better still, do you understand what it was?
Bmore on July 21, 2012 at 7:32 PM

Its a form of music that expresses anarchist tendencies, anti-authority attitudes and a the embrace of a DIY ethic. But maybe you should enlighten me.

jawkneemusic on July 21, 2012 at 7:38 PM

I know, but it irks me nevertheless. I dislike that sort of facile closeness. My comrades are chosen by me, not the state.

sharrukin on July 21, 2012 at 7:32 PM

K. No bother. I just wasn’t sure you knew.

Axe on July 21, 2012 at 7:38 PM

But maybe you should enlighten me.

jawkneemusic on July 21, 2012 at 7:38 PM

Enlighten yourself, I’m not a teacher. Just curious, were you a part of the mid NYC 70′s scene, English, or Cali scene?

Bmore on July 21, 2012 at 7:41 PM

Is it true that anything outside of a 50 mile radius of Moscow is third world?

Cleombrotus on July 21, 2012 at 7:32 PM

We did not get that far, only stayed in St.Petersburg for a day and a half and begged a trucker to take us into Finland. Russia has the scariest, most unfriendly border/customs agents I have ever seen.

JPeterman on July 21, 2012 at 7:45 PM

But maybe you should enlighten me.

jawkneemusic on July 21, 2012 at 7:38 PM

Enlighten yourself, I’m not a teacher. Just curious, were you a part of the mid NYC 70′s scene, English, or Cali scene?

Bmore on July 21, 2012 at 7:41 PM

Really?
You guys are going to get all big and bad…over punk music?

sharrukin on July 21, 2012 at 7:47 PM

Gotta run, I’ll leave you with this thought.

We’re all poseur’s now. ; )

Bmore on July 21, 2012 at 7:48 PM

Really?
You guys are going to get all big and bad…over punk music?

sharrukin on July 21, 2012 at 7:47 PM

Not me, I’m a lover. ; )

Bmore on July 21, 2012 at 7:49 PM

Yeah? And?
I heard the Rooster this past Monday. Godsmack, nope.
So, if you OD, you’re no good, huh?
Janis, Jimmi, and Jim might disagree.

AllahsNippleHair on July 21, 2012 at 7:19 PM

At first you misrepresented Godsmack saying they were only around since 2000 or so.

Being around for 16-17 years is alot better than 2000 or so like you said.

Plus you like punk rock, what do you know about good music?? :)

Godsmack is better, I’ll take the check my friend.

LevinFan on July 21, 2012 at 7:52 PM

For the time being, I’m just going to assume they really like cats. Who doesn’t like cats?

excerpt: Jazz Shaw

.
.
Cat-Scratch Fever.

listens2glenn on July 21, 2012 at 7:53 PM

Not me, I’m a lover. ; )

Bmore on July 21, 2012 at 7:49 PM

I would straighten you both out completely — but I’m mourning the loss of my comment.

I suppose it didn’t make it. Later, sweet comment. You were thoughtful and on topic — your content wasn’t your fault. It was mine. I should have used abbreviations. It you really are lost, go find all of Bmore’s comments and make peace in the comment beyond.

Axe on July 21, 2012 at 7:54 PM

Yeah? And?
I heard the Rooster this past Monday. Godsmack, nope.
So, if you OD, you’re no good, huh?
Janis, Jimmi, and Jim might disagree.

AllahsNippleHair on July 21, 2012 at 7:19 PM

At first you misrepresented Godsmack saying they were only around since 2000 or so.

Being around for 16-17 years is alot better than 2000 or so like you said.

Plus you like punk rock, what do you know about good music?? :)

Godsmack is better, I’ll take the check my friend.

LevinFan on July 21, 2012 at 7:52 PM

Look at the nods Alice in Chains, a grunge bad, got vs Gosmack. The span. Yeah.
If you think Godsmack is the end all, be all, well, you need your hearing checked. Looks like nobody’s cared about them since around 2004. Except you, voodoo.

AllahsNippleHair on July 21, 2012 at 7:59 PM

sharrukin on July 21, 2012 at 7:47 PM

Nope. I thought we were just having a fun conversation. Not sure why Bmone has a tone.

jawkneemusic on July 21, 2012 at 7:59 PM

K. No bother. I just wasn’t sure you knew.

Axe on July 21, 2012 at 7:38 PM

Thanks for your help anyway :(

JPeterman on July 21, 2012 at 8:00 PM

Gotta run, I’ll leave you with this thought.
We’re all poseur’s now. ; )
Bmore on July 21, 2012 at 7:48 PM

We’ll, I guess that is kinda hard to disagree with. :)

jawkneemusic on July 21, 2012 at 8:02 PM

I would straighten you both out completely — but I’m mourning the loss of my comment.

Axe on July 21, 2012 at 7:54 PM

.
I lost one, as well. Would’ve been about the same time as yours. : (
.
.
What’s going on with the Hotair servers ?

listens2glenn on July 21, 2012 at 8:03 PM

Thanks for your help anyway :(

JPeterman on July 21, 2012 at 8:00 PM

There’s the one who called me comrade!
*glare*

sharrukin on July 21, 2012 at 8:03 PM

I think everyone is a little on edge. Blame the Joker, blame the Joke in office.
Either way, all week and twice on Sunday, I agree with LevinFan.
Except on music.

AllahsNippleHair on July 21, 2012 at 8:06 PM

Look at the nods Alice in Chains, a grunge bad, got vs Gosmack. The span. Yeah.
If you think Godsmack is the end all, be all, well, you need your hearing checked. Looks like nobody’s cared about them since around 2004. Except you, voodoo.

AllahsNippleHair on July 21, 2012 at 7:59 PM

Yeah Godsmack has only been headlining arenas throughout this year, that’s all.

What’s Alice in Chains been doing?

Godsmack is in your face rock, AIC is more mellowed out alternative blah.

Maybe you should “check your head”.

LevinFan on July 21, 2012 at 8:07 PM

What’s going on with the Hotair servers ?

listens2glenn on July 21, 2012 at 8:03 PM

I’m pretty sure I got moderated. It’s still possible that the moderating just hasn’t been done yet. It’s taking a little longer than usual, but it’s the weekend. Also, my comment might not actually make it this time. :)

Axe on July 21, 2012 at 8:07 PM

Hey AllahsNippleHair:

Whatcha think of STP?

I remember I was going to see Linkin Park and STP stole the show.

The way it was with Scott weiland though… you could see a great show or it could be cancelled with him being strung out on heroin.

After Staley died, I was suprised Weiland’s survived for so long.

LevinFan on July 21, 2012 at 8:10 PM

Look at the nods Alice in Chains, a grunge bad, got vs Gosmack. The span. Yeah.
If you think Godsmack is the end all, be all, well, you need your hearing checked. Looks like nobody’s cared about them since around 2004. Except you, voodoo.

AllahsNippleHair on July 21, 2012 at 7:59 PM

Yeah Godsmack has only been headlining arenas throughout this year, that’s all.

What’s Alice in Chains been doing?

Godsmack is in your face rock, AIC is more mellowed out alternative blah.

Maybe you should “check your head”.

LevinFan on July 21, 2012 at 8:07 PM

http://stereogum.com/43591/vh1s_100_greatest_hard_rock_songs/list/

I don’t see Godsmack on this list, but “whatever”.

AllahsNippleHair on July 21, 2012 at 8:13 PM

Hey AllahsNippleHair:

Whatcha think of STP?

I remember I was going to see Linkin Park and STP stole the show.

The way it was with Scott weiland though… you could see a great show or it could be cancelled with him being strung out on heroin.

After Staley died, I was suprised Weiland’s survived for so long.

LevinFan on July 21, 2012 at 8:10 PM

I like them, but hey aren’t my favorite from that time.
Scott Weiland should donate his body to science.

AllahsNippleHair on July 21, 2012 at 8:16 PM

Putin is one of the best world leaders and practical. He has the most realistic stance on Syria rather than this naive “humanitarian” free the Syrian people view that has resulted in thousands of needless deaths. He is much more shrewd than even the Clinton’s and lastly he’s open about his views and not worried about whether his words received a positive review. American politicians are always guarding their words and cowardly about truly expressing themselves. Pathetic!

Rattl3r on July 21, 2012 at 8:16 PM

From wikipedia:

Alice in Chains rose to international fame as part of the grunge movement of the early 1990s, along with other Seattle bands such as Nirvana, Pearl Jam, and Soundgarden. The band was one of the most successful music acts of the 1990s, selling over 35 million albums worldwide,[1] and over 14 million in the US alone.[2] In 1992 the band released their album Dirt which was critically acclaimed and has been certified quadruple platinum. The band also achieved two No.1 Billboard 200 albums (Jar of Flies and Alice in Chains), 14 top ten songs on the Mainstream Rock Tracks chart, and eight Grammy Award nominations.

The band has had three consecutive number one albums (Faceless, IV, and The Oracle) on the Billboard 200. The band also has parked a ratified 20 top ten rock radio hits, including 15 songs in the Top Five, a record number of top ten singles by a rock artist.[1]

Since its inception, Godsmack has toured on Ozzfest on more than one occasion, and has toured with many other large tours and festivals, including supporting its albums with its own arena tours. Godsmack has sold over 20 million records in just over a decade, yet despite the decline of album sales in recent years, they have proven to be one of the highest-grossing artists in the United States.[2]

So Godsmack has had more hits and AIC has sold more albums.

LevinFan on July 21, 2012 at 8:16 PM

So Godsmack has had more hits and AIC has sold more albums.

LevinFan on July 21, 2012 at 8:16 PM

But, sadly, no top 100 best hard rock song.
Down twinkles for Godsmack.

AllahsNippleHair on July 21, 2012 at 8:25 PM

Putin is one of the best world leaders and practical.

Rattl3r on July 21, 2012 at 8:16 PM

Yes, that Putin is just super duper especially when he shuts off gas supplies whenever he feels like it.

Europe plunged into energy crisis as Russia cuts off gas supply via Ukraine

Yep, he’s cool alright/// Maybe you should move there.

JPeterman on July 21, 2012 at 8:26 PM

But, sadly, no top 100 best hard rock song.
Down twinkles for Godsmack.

AllahsNippleHair on July 21, 2012 at 8:25 PM

Who made that list??

MC5 at #65??

Dokken??

Rollins Band?? Seriously??

LevinFan on July 21, 2012 at 8:34 PM

Yes, that Putin is just super duper especially when he shuts off gas supplies whenever he feels like it.

Europe plunged into energy crisis as Russia cuts off gas supply via Ukraine

Yep, he’s cool alright/// Maybe you should move there.

JPeterman on July 21, 2012 at 8:26 PM

Well…

During this conflict, Russia claimed Ukraine was not paying for gas, but diverting it intended to be exported to the EU from the pipelines. Ukrainian officials at first denied the accusation,[2][3] but later Naftogaz admitted that natural gas intended for other European countries was retained and used for domestic needs.

On June, 8, 2010, a Stockholm court of arbitration ruled Naftogaz of Ukraine must return 12.1 billion cubic metres (430 billion cubic feet) of gas to RosUkrEnergo…

sharrukin on July 21, 2012 at 8:34 PM

Yes, that Putin is just super duper especially when he shuts off gas supplies whenever he feels like it.

That’s politics. It’s a lesson in don’t bite the hand that feeds. Quite frankly when you piss off the guy that’s keeping you warm through harsh winters you’re an idiot. It’s also a lesson that when the guy that if Russian pipes, hypothetically, run through the Ukraine into say Western European countries and Ukraine decided to piss off Russia that effects Western Europe so Western Europe should be telling the Ukraine to knock it off or else.

It’s kinda asinine to blame the supplier when the dependents are dumb enough to put themselves in the position of being dependent on Russia. Goodwill and politics don’t mix.

“Hope and Change” is naivete. So is humanitarianism that results in you sponsoring Al Qaeda linked “freedom fighters”. Read throughout history and you find strongman leaders like Putin who are politically calculating, shrewd, efficient leaders and can back their message up with a firm punch.

Rattl3r on July 21, 2012 at 8:37 PM

Thank you Sharrukin!

Rattl3r on July 21, 2012 at 8:38 PM

Thank you Sharrukin!

Rattl3r on July 21, 2012 at 8:38 PM

I don’t think Putin’s a nice guy, but in that situation the Ukrainians were ripping them off.

sharrukin on July 21, 2012 at 8:40 PM

Read throughout history and you find strongman leaders like Putin who are politically calculating, shrewd, efficient leaders and can back their message up with a firm punch.

Rattl3r on July 21, 2012 at 8:37 PM

That’s a fact.

Axe on July 21, 2012 at 8:40 PM

Dokken??

Rollins Band?? Seriously??

LevinFan on July 21, 2012 at 8:34 PM

You aren’t about to dis Dokken, are you?

Axe on July 21, 2012 at 8:41 PM

But, sadly, no top 100 best hard rock song.
Down twinkles for Godsmack.

AllahsNippleHair on July 21, 2012 at 8:25 PM

Who made that list??

MC5 at #65??

Dokken??

Rollins Band?? Seriously??

LevinFan on July 21, 2012 at 8:34 PM

VH-1. I like Rollins Band, but REM is my all time favorite.
Not everyone agrees, but I didn’t see Godsmack even get a mention.

AllahsNippleHair on July 21, 2012 at 8:44 PM

Honestly, I am LOVING this convo…we should do this every Saturday.

AllahsNippleHair on July 21, 2012 at 8:46 PM

That real cool guy though certainly seems to be outdoing Obmama in terms of producing results!

Rattl3r on July 21, 2012 at 8:46 PM

Sharrukin I never said you did. Just thanking you for putting the facts out there.

Rattl3r on July 21, 2012 at 8:48 PM

Honestly, I am LOVING this convo…we should do this every Saturday.

AllahsNippleHair on July 21, 2012 at 8:46 PM

If every on-topic comment is necessarily moderated, there isn’t much else to do with it, except get into fist-fights over the definition of Punk Rock. :)

Axe on July 21, 2012 at 8:49 PM

Rattl3r on July 21, 2012 at 8:37 PM

They cut their supplies to Eastern Europe just this past winter, one of the coldest in history.

Gazprom cuts gas supplies amid cold snap

You call it politics, some of us call it evil and disturbing. Whatever floats your boat.

JPeterman on July 21, 2012 at 8:49 PM

Sharrukin I never said you did. Just thanking you for putting the facts out there.

Rattl3r on July 21, 2012 at 8:48 PM

No problem. In some ways I do wish our own leaders would looking out for the country first and foreign interests a distant second.

sharrukin on July 21, 2012 at 8:51 PM

Off the top of my head:

“Whatever” and “Awake” should both be on that list..

And the US Navy agrees…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MorDCtBPR8

LevinFan on July 21, 2012 at 8:52 PM

Off the top of my head:

“Whatever” and “Awake” should both be on that list..

And the US Navy agrees…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MorDCtBPR8

LevinFan on July 21, 2012 at 8:52 PM

Sure. But, they’re not.

AllahsNippleHair on July 21, 2012 at 8:55 PM

Wonder if Jazz Shaw is still supporting RINO Dewhurst

LevinFan on July 21, 2012 at 8:55 PM

Read throughout history and you find strongman leaders tyrants like Putin who are politically calculating, shrewd, efficient leaders and can back their message up with a firm punch.

Rattl3r on July 21, 2012 at 8:37 PM

.
I think that’s more-to-the-point.

listens2glenn on July 21, 2012 at 8:55 PM

Sure. But, they’re not.

AllahsNippleHair on July 21, 2012 at 8:55 PM

So VH1 are the consensus experts?

Personally I thrive on going against what the so called “wizards of smart” have to say.

LevinFan on July 21, 2012 at 8:56 PM

Girls got guts.

AshleyTKing on July 21, 2012 at 8:57 PM

Honestly, I am LOVING this convo…we should do this every Saturday.

AllahsNippleHair on July 21, 2012 at 8:46 PM

If every on-topic comment is necessarily moderated, there isn’t much else to do with it, except get into fist-fights over the definition of Punk Rock. :)

Axe on July 21, 2012 at 8:49 PM

How about a thread on which is the better pet, cats or dogs?
You wanna talk about fist fights? I’m sure there would be some biting too.

AllahsNippleHair on July 21, 2012 at 8:57 PM

Sure. But, they’re not.

AllahsNippleHair on July 21, 2012 at 8:55 PM

So VH1 are the consensus experts?

Personally I thrive on going against what the so called “wizards of smart” have to say.

LevinFan on July 21, 2012 at 8:56 PM

If I recall, it was voted on by the fans.
I would say Gosmack are more establishment than Alice in Chains.

AllahsNippleHair on July 21, 2012 at 8:58 PM

They cut their supplies to Eastern Europe just this past winter, one of the coldest in history.

Gazprom cuts gas supplies amid cold snap

You call it politics, some of us call it evil and disturbing. Whatever floats your boat.

JPeterman on July 21, 2012 at 8:49 PM

I think I will go with this guys comment.

Sceptical German | February 4 10:10am | Permalink
| Options

What are you trying to tell us? Did Gazprom violate any delivery contract or not? As long as they deliver volumes and capacities as specified in the contracts they are free to supply surplus gas volumes to whoever they want. It is also unclear to me if Ukraine and/or Gazprom violated any contracts they have with each other. Such vague reporting is definitely sub-standard for the FT.

sharrukin on July 21, 2012 at 8:59 PM

I gotta run for now… time to take my daughter to bed… it’s been fun… as a going away present:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jt4J8sOlQGI

Eat your heart out alice in chains!!

LevinFan on July 21, 2012 at 8:59 PM

LevinFan on July 21, 2012 at 8:52 PM

Sure. But, they’re not.

AllahsNippleHair on July 21, 2012 at 8:55 PM

Well if we’re just going to paste onto the list, get Aardvark’s Forever up.

Axe on July 21, 2012 at 9:03 PM

How about a thread on which is the better pet, cats or dogs?
You wanna talk about fist fights? I’m sure there would be some biting too.

AllahsNippleHair on July 21, 2012 at 8:57 PM

LOL — I think their might be weeping and gnashing of teeth. :)

Would pay.

Axe on July 21, 2012 at 9:04 PM

they’re going after the gheys too not just the uppity women.

kitteh riot originally were protesting the russian church supporting the re-election of putin- a fascist tyrant who will undoubtably always be re-elected. many consider the vote to have been fraudulent.

“Unlike Stalin, Putin uses these instruments of power and intimidation behind a façade of democracy. Unlike Stalin, they are used selectively against a few citizens. Those who ‘mind their business’ are left alone. While Stalin held power, even those who played by his rules were at risk. Modern dictators have learned that mass repressions are not necessary; selective intimidation works just as well.”

[ What Putin Learned From Stalin, Paul R. Gregory, http://larussophobe.wordpress.com/2010/08/01/op-ed-what-putin-learned-from-stalin/ ]

mittens on July 21, 2012 at 9:06 PM

JPeterman on July 21, 2012 at 8:26 PM

.
Well…

During this conflict, Russia claimed Ukraine was not paying for gas, but diverting it intended to be exported to the EU from the pipelines. Ukrainian officials at first denied the accusation,[2][3] but later Naftogaz admitted that natural gas intended for other European countries was retained and used for domestic needs.

On June, 8, 2010, a Stockholm court of arbitration ruled Naftogaz of Ukraine must return 12.1 billion cubic metres (430 billion cubic feet) of gas to RosUkrEnergo…

sharrukin on July 21, 2012 at 8:34 PM
.

Thank you Sharrukin!

Rattl3r on July 21, 2012 at 8:38 PM

.
I don’t think Putin’s a nice guy, but in that situation the Ukrainians were ripping them off.

sharrukin
on July 21, 2012 at 8:40 PM

.
Half the story.

The other European countries were either discouraged from, OR talked out of drilling for their own energy.

Russia had plenty of cheap petroleum at the time, so “why not?”
What could possibly go wrong?

.
I’ll have to concede that I don’t remember when the “Gouging” started, so can anyone else here help me with the timeline?

listens2glenn on July 21, 2012 at 9:07 PM

I gotta run for now… time to take my daughter to bed… it’s been fun… as a going away present:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jt4J8sOlQGI

Eat your heart out alice in chains!!

LevinFan on July 21, 2012 at 8:59 PM

It’s been a blast!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEZNZcfeN0s&feature=youtube_gdata_player

And, to you, friend.

AllahsNippleHair on July 21, 2012 at 9:11 PM

Half the story.

The other European countries were either discouraged from, OR talked out of drilling for their own energy.

Russia had plenty of cheap petroleum at the time, so “why not?”
What could possibly go wrong?

So you are saying that if Saudi Arabia tells the US and Europe to just stop all oil exploration cause they will take care of us, we should then blame the Saudi’s if there are shortages?

I think a mirror would be more useful in finding the culprits for that level of idiocy.

.

I’ll have to concede that I don’t remember when the “Gouging” started, so can anyone else here help me with the timeline?

listens2glenn on July 21, 2012 at 9:07 PM

If Canada built that Keystone pipeline and then Obama started tapping oil from it for free, would that be OK? The Ukrainians were stealing.

sharrukin on July 21, 2012 at 9:13 PM

I think I will go with this guys comment.

sharrukin on July 21, 2012 at 8:59 PM

You can go with any comment you please. I was born and raised under the tyranny of the Russians/Communists, my family is still there and all of Eastern Europe is extremely nervous again now that Putin is officially running the show again. But hey, that Putin is one strong leader/

Now if you will excuse me I have to go and bring Comrade Fred in from the pasture and feed him his nightly oats. You know “comrade” that French word for “friend”, “colleague”, or “ally” that I mistakenly addressed you by. My apologies, it won’t happen again.

JPeterman on July 21, 2012 at 9:16 PM

You can go with any comment you please. I was born and raised under the tyranny of the Russians/Communists, my family is still there and all of Eastern Europe is extremely nervous again now that Putin is officially running the show again. But hey, that Putin is one strong leader/

JPeterman on July 21, 2012 at 9:16 PM

That doesn’t change the facts. Putin isn’t a nice guy and Russia isn’t a free nation. That doesn’t mean that the Ukrainians weren’t stealing, nor does it mean that Russia broke any contracts. Just because they are a nasty crew does not mean they are always wrong.

sharrukin on July 21, 2012 at 9:19 PM

oh and perhaps we should be more upset at the suppression of these women’s rights without a trial simply for speech. the church could have asked for the government not to arrest them but they have opted to side with the powers that would willingly again destroy the church if it dares get in the way. perhaps that should be of far more offense to us than a mere word- technically not even a censorable word but a bad double entendre.

the return of cold war soviet tactics to russia- but, then again, did they ever really leave? kitteh riot has been paying the price for freedom over a trifling – and roundly ignored in the west, consistently denigrated as ‘girls’ and juvenile over being the victims of a troubling police state- for daring to say putin stole the election.

sadly, i never thought in my lifetime i could say that the very same thing could very easily happen in america. we’re one election away from being kitteh riot.

mittens on July 21, 2012 at 9:20 PM

I think I will go with this guys comment.

sharrukin on July 21, 2012 at 8:59 PM

You can go with any comment you please. I was born and raised under the tyranny of the Russians/Communists, my family is still there and all of Eastern Europe is extremely nervous again now that Putin is officially running the show again. But hey, that Putin is one strong leader/

Now if you will excuse me I have to go and bring Comrade Fred in from the pasture and feed him his nightly oats. You know “comrade” that French word for “friend”, “colleague”, or “ally” that I mistakenly addressed you by. My apologies, it won’t happen again.

JPeterman on July 21, 2012 at 9:16 PM

And, I’ll go with the guy with boots on the ground experience.

AllahsNippleHair on July 21, 2012 at 9:24 PM

Listen to Tool. Someone laid out the truth one time… Tool’s mediocre is everyone else’s best. Romney/MJK ’12!

ahlaphus on July 21, 2012 at 9:30 PM

And they’re been around with no breakups since the early nineties and are still around selling out arenas and such. Can the same be said about other groups from the nineties? TOOL FOR PRESIDENT!

ahlaphus on July 21, 2012 at 9:31 PM

Listen to Tool. Someone laid out the truth one time… Tool’s mediocre is everyone else’s best. Romney/MJK ’12!

ahlaphus on July 21, 2012 at 9:30 PM

I’ll go with that too.

AllahsNippleHair on July 21, 2012 at 9:32 PM

And, I’ll go with the guy with boots on the ground experience.

AllahsNippleHair on July 21, 2012 at 9:24 PM

I will go with facts, not feelings.

sharrukin on July 21, 2012 at 9:33 PM

And, I’ll go with the guy with boots on the ground experience.

AllahsNippleHair on July 21, 2012 at 9:24 PM

I will go with facts, not feelings.

sharrukin on July 21, 2012 at 9:33 PM

Looks like JPeterman has first hand knowledge.

AllahsNippleHair on July 21, 2012 at 9:36 PM

Looks like JPeterman has first hand knowledge.

AllahsNippleHair on July 21, 2012 at 9:36 PM

He worked with Gazprom or Naftogaz did he?

sharrukin on July 21, 2012 at 9:38 PM

No problem. In some ways I do wish our own leaders would looking out for the country first and foreign interests a distant second.

I totally agree.

Rattl3r on July 21, 2012 at 9:39 PM

Looks like JPeterman has first hand knowledge.

AllahsNippleHair on July 21, 2012 at 9:36 PM

He worked with Gazprom or Naftogaz did he?

sharrukin on July 21, 2012 at 9:38 PM

Do you?

AllahsNippleHair on July 21, 2012 at 9:47 PM

Do you?

AllahsNippleHair on July 21, 2012 at 9:47 PM

Nope, which is why I go to news sources for information.

Most Californian’s voted for Jerry Brown thinking that was a good idea. Do they trump the facts because they have boots on the ground experience? Living in California gives you knowledge on living in California, and living in Poland, or the former East Germany gives you a glimpse into living there as well. It doesn’t give you any special knowledge about siphoning that took place from a natural gas pipeline.

sharrukin on July 21, 2012 at 9:54 PM

Do you?

AllahsNippleHair on July 21, 2012 at 9:47 PM

Nope, which is why I go to news sources for information.

Most Californian’s voted for Jerry Brown thinking that was a good idea. Do they trump the facts because they have boots on the ground experience? Living in California gives you knowledge on living in California, and living in Poland, or the former East Germany gives you a glimpse into living there as well. It doesn’t give you any special knowledge about siphoning that took place from a natural gas pipeline.

sharrukin on July 21, 2012 at 9:54 PM

When you’re freezing, I’m betting you know. On the ground.

AllahsNippleHair on July 21, 2012 at 10:04 PM

They cut their supplies to Eastern Europe just this past winter, one of the coldest in history.

Gazprom cuts gas supplies amid cold snap

You call it politics, some of us call it evil and disturbing. Whatever floats your boat.

JPeterman, if you read more than just your regions news you’d see there more to the Russia vs Ukraine feud. But with that aside its funny Russia would jack prices up during a cold winter when demand would be high. That is odd just like it is odd that Gas companies amazingly jack up prices during the holidays or summer vacation season. Or on Highway rest stops where prices are always guaranteed to be higher than in the towns.

If gas was being siphoned off I don’t see why Russia or any contracting party should be obligated to released more of the supply than they were contracted for. Thats on the Ukraine. I would’ve cutt off supplies to to compensate for losses or charge a higher price to offset my own losses.

Thats capitalism and it is fair. The weather that winter makes the situation tragic. But it should not be a factor in how Russia decides to handle it when it is being robbed. Decisions based off of emotional responses usually end up being stupid decisions.

Rattl3r on July 21, 2012 at 10:04 PM

When you’re freezing, I’m betting you know. On the ground.

AllahsNippleHair on July 21, 2012 at 10:04 PM

Right, so if someone wants something its OK for them to steal it and those bad capitalists shouldn’t complain because someone just feels that its the right thing to do?

If the Europeans want their homes toasty warm, maybe they should invest in nuclear power rather than shutting them down. Instead they invest in idiotic wind projects and get upset when the gas supply from somewhere else actually has to be, you know…paid for.

sharrukin on July 21, 2012 at 10:13 PM

When you’re freezing, I’m betting you know. On the ground.

AllahsNippleHair on July 21, 2012 at 10:04 PM

Right, so if someone wants something its OK for them to steal it and those bad capitalists shouldn’t complain because someone just feels that its the right thing to do?

If the Europeans want their homes toasty warm, maybe they should invest in nuclear power rather than shutting them down. Instead they invest in idiotic wind projects and get upset when the gas supply from somewhere else actually has to be, you know…paid for.

sharrukin on July 21, 2012 at 10:13 PM

You’re right. If that is the reason.
Tell you what, go live under Putin and have an opinion.
I’m sure it’s the horse riding and the rippling muscles.

AllahsNippleHair on July 21, 2012 at 10:16 PM

Tell you what, go live under Putin and have an opinion.
I’m sure it’s the horse riding and the rippling muscles.

AllahsNippleHair on July 21, 2012 at 10:16 PM

Well the OWS crowd thinks capitalists are evil, like those bad Koch brothers and anything that happens to them is OK…cause they’re bad. Why is theft OK if you don’t happen to like the guy, Putin in this case?

sharrukin on July 21, 2012 at 10:24 PM

Tell you what, go live under Putin and have an opinion.
I’m sure it’s the horse riding and the rippling muscles.

AllahsNippleHair on July 21, 2012 at 10:16 PM

Well the OWS crowd thinks capitalists are evil, like those bad Koch brothers and anything that happens to them is OK…cause they’re bad. Why is theft OK if you don’t happen to like the guy, Putin in this case?

sharrukin on July 21, 2012 at 10:24 PM

I said, if it was supply/demand and they didn’t pay. Okay. I said that.
If it is political. Well, like I said, go Putin. Build a house under his boot.

AllahsNippleHair on July 21, 2012 at 10:27 PM

In all of this criticism of Putin & his party, people need to stop and ask if any of the alternatives are better?

The 2nd largest party is the Communist Party.
The 3rd largest party is a socialist party that declares its hatred of “barbaric capitalism”
The 4th largest party is a militant party that still holds up Saddam Hussein as an example of a model leader.

For all his authoritarianism and crackdowns on opponents, Putin still on balance is better than his rivals.

AngusMc on July 21, 2012 at 10:29 PM

You’re right. If that is the reason.
Tell you what, go live under Putin and have an opinion.
I’m sure it’s the horse riding and the rippling muscles.

I would and I’d sign up for the police or military immediately. I’d be all set. Perhaps you’re one of the protesters that just can’t accept the boys are back in town.

Rattl3r on July 21, 2012 at 10:34 PM

You’re right. If that is the reason.
Tell you what, go live under Putin and have an opinion.
I’m sure it’s the horse riding and the rippling muscles.

I would and I’d sign up for the police or military immediately. I’d be all set. Perhaps you’re one of the protesters that just can’t accept the boys are back in town.

Rattl3r on July 21, 2012 at 10:34 PM

By all means. Get on it.

AllahsNippleHair on July 21, 2012 at 10:40 PM

I would and I’d sign up for the police or military immediately. I’d be all set. Perhaps you’re one of the protesters that just can’t accept the boys are back in town.

Rattl3r on July 21, 2012 at 10:34 PM

I’ll send you a one way ticket. When do you want to leave? Tomorrow soon enough?

JPeterman on July 21, 2012 at 10:43 PM

I just don’t see attacking a cathedral as an expression of free speech.

sharrukin on July 21, 2012 at 5:44 PM

Not sure where to begin. You state that thousands were allowed to hold demonstrations. While true, TO SOME EXTENT, most demonstrations were dealt with via shutting down or using brute force. While one, similar to our OWS type, was told they cannot use a famous park due to “unsanitary conditions created”, EVERY local observer stated the park was kept cleaner by the “occupiers” than Moscow’s government. Or through the use of OMON forces (worse than our SWAT, by far, these guys wear masks at all times and are allowed to use ANY force they feel like, no justification required). OMON are probably on par with Navy SEALs training wise and just love beating up, and shooting, people. So, while a couple of visible demonstrations were allowed for the Western world to see, most were declared “illegal” and dealt with swiftly and accordingly.

Opposition leaders’ homes were invaded about 2+ weeks ago, at early hours of the morning, similar to how Stalin used to conduct his. Those opposing Putin and Co. are often found beaten up badly (broken bones, if you’re lucky, but most often than not broken skulls or worse – by bullet). Journalists are shot left and right. Ask Lebedev and Khodorkovsky what happens when business people refuse to share their income with Putin.

Government and its minions ride over people (cars), literally, almost a daily occurence these days, and its the people who are found guilty of some infraction or other.

Not sure what was meant by you when you stated demonstrations were allowed, they were not for the most part. Its pretty much same old, same old, and although not as bad as events in Belorussia a couple of years ago when opposition leaders were beaten senseless (some were left crippled) and their kids taken into “protective custody”, but close enough.

Not much difference between Russia of today and USSR of old. Yes, one can own a business as long as one “shares” with the government. And I am talking about taxes here.

We’re not there yet, but at the rate this is going we’ll probably be there sooner rather than later.

What’s ironic and sarcastic is how many Russians are so brainwashed they say it is we who live below sub-standard levels while just our side of Moscow and St. Petersburg it is so bad that our so called “poverty” level living conditions would be considered “well off” there. And yet these idiots think of us as those on the losing end.

As for P_ussy Riot, they are in some way similar to FEMEN group in Ukraine, you ought to look them up as well, hair raising stuff when it comes to female students in Ukraine these days. Where I think P_ussy Riot were more than justified in their invasion of the Cathedral is the newly found “religious right” in Russia. Clerics are more than in bed with Putin and their openly flouted decadence is just pissing the commons off, big time. When clerics flout $100K watches (and make sure people see them) and insist that absolutely everything they touch is 24K gold while carrying 20 pound all gold crosses, when they shine each and every day like just polished gold nugget, all with impunity while commoners are starving, I can more than see the justifications of P_ussy Riot to do what they did to draw the attention to the problem.

So, yes, JPeterman is correct when stating that what we are told and shown here is just a small part of what’s really going on there. We should thank our LSM for that, there is no way they can show their “wet dream nirvana” t the brain washed idiots here, even some idiots will begin asking very pointed questions.

First site I check every morning is Russian news one, just for kicks to see how far the idiots will be pushed by Putin and Co. And every day I do get a surprise or two, still.

riddick on July 21, 2012 at 11:12 PM

riddick on July 21, 2012 at 11:12 PM

Again, at no point have I ever argued that Putin is one of the good guys, nor do I believe that Russia is a free country. That does not mean that what they did was an expression of free speech.

sharrukin on July 21, 2012 at 11:16 PM

I would and I’d sign up for the police or military immediately. I’d be all set. Perhaps you’re one of the protesters that just can’t accept the boys are back in town.

Rattl3r on July 21, 2012 at 10:34 PM

You WILL BE squeeling like a pig and begging us to take you back. Oh, in about a day or two, right after your brain will be bashed into pulp by local “welcoming committee”, every section of a city in Russia has one.

As JPeterman stated, I WILL GLADLY buy you a ticket as long as you also surrender your USA citizenship along with it. And I mean it. We need more idiots like you who have no idea what life in Russia really is to move there and then cry on TV to take you back.

Take from one who used to live it.

riddick on July 21, 2012 at 11:17 PM

That does not mean that what they did was an expression of free speech.

sharrukin on July 21, 2012 at 11:16 PM

What do you propose they do, then?

riddick on July 21, 2012 at 11:18 PM

Oh, forgot to mention, aas related to HusseinCare. One of UFC fighters wehn to Moscow for a fight, early this year. Was beaten up pretty badly and lost, ended up with a few broken bones and a stay at local hospital.

I think you now know where this is going :-) Yes, upon leaving hospital he stated, ON CAMERA, that now he understands what HusseinCare is all about and what it will mean to all of us once implemented. He now is a card carrying member of “Defeat HusseinCare” movement :-)

Even Russians found this amusing enough to show on TV since they know what “government run health care” really means.

riddick on July 21, 2012 at 11:23 PM

Actually been listening to country the last couple of years too — it’s good to listen to something where they don’t hate America or aren’t a bunch of liberal dbags.

LevinFan on July 21, 2012 at 5:39 PM

Try Don Edwards’ album American.
I think yall will like it.

Badger40 on July 21, 2012 at 11:30 PM

In all of this criticism of Putin & his party, people need to stop and ask if any of the alternatives are better?

The 2nd largest party is the Communist Party.
The 3rd largest party is a socialist party that declares its hatred of “barbaric capitalism”
The 4th largest party is a militant party that still holds up Saddam Hussein as an example of a model leader.

For all his authoritarianism and crackdowns on opponents, Putin still on balance is better than his rivals.

AngusMc on July 21, 2012 at 10:29 PM

Drinking early on Saturday? Ever hear of Prokhorov? He was the only real “runner-up” to Putin, all raids against opposition were on people who supported him 9and no one else).

The ONLY reason, I repeat, THE ONLY REASON, Putin “won” was because of stolen elections. His people blatantly either destroyed voting records or “enhanced” them via “found in trunk” batches, similar to what unions do here.

When all votes were “tallied”, they found that 140% of population voted. I am sure that beats any prior world record for elections. Your party breakdown above means absolutely nothing in real world and defending “best choice” as you did is seriously questionable, to be VERY POLITE.

riddick on July 21, 2012 at 11:32 PM

Never trust the Russian government. Never. Ever. EVER.

F@cking savages.

OhioCoastie on July 21, 2012 at 11:33 PM

Drinking early on Saturday? Ever hear of Prokhorov? He was the only real “runner-up” to Putin, all raids against opposition were on people who supported him 9and no one else).

riddick on July 21, 2012 at 11:32 PM

A. Prokhorov got about 7% of the vote,
B. His “party” has zero seats in the DUMA (legislature)
C. His “party” is based around himself, that is, he appears to be a Putin-wannabe rather than pro-democracy.

AngusMc on July 21, 2012 at 11:36 PM

A. Prokhorov got about 7% of the vote,
B. His “party” has zero seats in the DUMA (legislature)
C. His “party” is based around himself, that is, he appears to be a Putin-wannabe rather than pro-democracy.

AngusMc on July 21, 2012 at 11:36 PM

Keep drinking that KooAid. Have no idea where you get your news, obviously from Communist News of America. I get mine directly from source, in Russian.

What part of my pointing out above, RE: “opposition leaders who supported Prokhorov” were raided, didn’t you understand? What part of the 140% of ENTIRE frigging population “voting’ didn’t you get? As in, each and every person, even those who are underage and cannot vote, counted and then add another 40% to that. If, as your Communist News, reported, Prokhorov only got 7%, why even pay attention to him and his supporters?

Putin, by local estimates, got maybe 30% of the vote, if that.

Why do YOU think people are protesting? In such large numbers and all across the place.

Funny how liberals are so bad with numbers and logic.

riddick on July 21, 2012 at 11:47 PM

As Stalin said, its not who votes, but who counts the votes.

The only reason Putin was “elected”. By local counts, he got anywhere from 26% to 28% of the vote. Pretty much military, ex-KGB (these days FSB), police (MVD), and all the business people sharing the “wealth”: oil, metals, diamonds, gold, etc. CHURCH included.

Main reason raiding a Cathedral was more than justified.

riddick on July 21, 2012 at 11:53 PM

Take from one who used to live it.

riddick on July 21, 2012 at 11:17 PM

Thanks for even more insight than I have on the Russian front. I hear most stories via my family in Slovakia and Czech Republic.

Maybe you could answer this for me? We have plenty of “cathedrals” or old beautiful churches in both of the above mentioned countries, many dating back hundreds of years. Hundreds in just Prague alone.

When the Communists took over in 47/48 and religion was basically outlawed, many, many of those churches were turned into concert halls for plays and performing arts. Many are still like that today, although we gained our freedom in 1989.

Is that the case in Russia too? I know that the Church of the Savior on Spilled Blood is no longer used for worship, but as a tourist attraction only. Is that correct?

I was also told by one of the only willing Russians that would talk to us, that most of Russia’s tax dollars are now going into renovations of bombed out palaces etc. in order to impress the rest of the world.

JPeterman on July 21, 2012 at 11:54 PM

You WILL BE squeeling like a pig and begging us to take you back. Oh, in about a day or two, right after your brain will be bashed into pulp by local “welcoming committee”, every section of a city in Russia has one.

As JPeterman stated, I WILL GLADLY buy you a ticket as long as you also surrender your USA citizenship along with it. And I mean it. We need more idiots like you who have no idea what life in Russia really is to move there and then cry on TV to take you back.

Take from one who used to live it.

I assure you I will not be squealing, begging, and being a natural born citizen go fuck yourself. My american citizenship is my birthright and secondly my family immigrated here through the front door, assimilated and made prosperous careers.

The reality is America is naive enough to think the whole world can be governed by american style democracy and freedoms. That can’t they all just be like us. That isn’t gonna fly in Iraq, Afghanistan, has worked so well in Africa either. Is Libya and Egypt are making great strides as well.

I’ve actually traveled abroad unlike half the desk jockey’s on these sites whose visas get stamped by typing “Russia” in a wiki search engine.

Russia always has and always will be this way. It was this way in Tsarist times, it was this way in Soviet times, and is so now.

Rattl3r on July 21, 2012 at 11:59 PM

When all votes were “tallied”, they found that 140% of population voted. I am sure that beats any prior world record for elections. Your party breakdown above means absolutely nothing in real world and defending “best choice” as you did is seriously questionable, to be VERY POLITE.

Yea if you’re gonna level that charge how about an actual media source from a credible media outlet we can source check. Now some opposition members blog or web page

Rattl3r on July 22, 2012 at 12:02 AM

There’s so many of us
There’s so many of us
There’s so many [x2]

Let’s have a war
So you can go and die!
Let’s have a war!
We could all use the money!
Let’s have a war!
We need the space!
Let’s have a war!
Clean out this place!

It already started in the city!
Suburbia will be just as easy!

There’s so many of us
There’s so many of us
There’s so many [x2]

Let’s have a war!
Jack up the Dow Jones!
Let’s have a war!
It can start in New Jersey!
Let’s have a war!
Blame it on the middle-class!
Let’s have a war!
We’re like rats in a cage!

It already started in the city!
Suburbia will be just as easy!

There’s so many of us
There’s so many of us
There’s so many [x2]

Let’s have a war!
Sell the rights to the networks!
Let’s have a war!
General Motors get fat like last time!
Let’s have a war!
Give guns to the queers!
Let’s have a war!
The enemy’s within!

It already started in the city!
Suburbia will be just as easy!

TABoLK on July 22, 2012 at 12:19 AM

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