Bernanke: Don’t play chicken with the fiscal cliff

posted at 10:41 am on July 17, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

Leadership in both political parties have spent the last few weeks jockeying for political position on the “fiscal cliff,” AKA Taxmageddon, although perhaps none as blatantly as Senator Patty Murray (D-WA).  The chair of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee threatened to let all of the tax hikes and severe spending cuts go into effect at the end of the year unless Republicans caved on tax hikes for higher-income earners:

Just to be clear, the budget from the Obama administration would have a $900 billion deficit.  Raising the top rate by three points would generate less than $85 billion a year — and that’s using static tax analysis, assuming that income would not get deferred and capital moved outside of the US.  The problem isn’t revenue, it’s spending, and specifically, it’s entitlement spending that got expanded massively by Democrats in 2010 with ObamaCare.

Investors Business Daily ripped the Democrats for playing chicken with Taxmageddon (via Instapundit):

Democrats say they’ll let all the Bush-era tax cuts expire if they can’t raise taxes on the rich. Apparently, economic catastrophe is a reasonable price to pay for class warfare politics.

On Monday, Sen. Patty Murray, who heads the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, said that “unless Republicans end their commitment to protecting the rich above all else, our country is going to have to face the consequences of Republican intransigence.”

What she really means is Democratic intransigence.

After all, Republicans have taken the perfectly reasonable position that the last thing you want to do when the economy is barely breathing is raise taxes.

Obama himself once made that argument, at a time when the economy was doing better than it is today. And a few level-headed Senate Democrats agree.

Yet now, faced with a tough re-election and desperate to score political points, Obama says he’ll veto any bill that extends all the Bush tax cuts, and Democrats, as evidenced by Murray’s comments, are falling in line.

IBD is not alone in its alarm over brinksmanship on the fiscal cliff.  Federal Reserve chair Ben Bernanke issued a warning today to Congress to get the problem fixed — and sooner rather than later:

The economic assessment was much gloomier than Bernanke put forward in his previous semiannual testimony, delivered in February. Then, he told lawmakers that the Fed had seen positive developments in the labor market, an advance in household spending, a rebound in consumer sentiment and gains in manufacturing production. The good news came with caveats, but was on the whole more positive than the assessment the Fed chief put out on Tuesday.

Now, Bernanke says members of the FOMC are even more uncertain about their forecasts than usual, and the risks to growth higher.

The U.S. fiscal situation is one of the primary sources of that risk. Bernanke has warned lawmakers repeatedly that their failure to stop the combination of tax increases and spending cuts that are set to occur at the end of the year, also known as the “fiscal cliff,” will hurt the economy. On Tuesday, he emphasized the tightrope lawmakers must walk.

A Congressional Budget Office estimate that going over the fiscal cliff would cause a shallow recession in 2013 probably doesn’t do the economic damage justice, according to the Fed chairman, because it doesn’t incorporate the effects of public uncertainty surrounding how the matters will be resolved.

In other words, waiting until 2013 will push the economy into a tailspin this year, not next, and probably a harder one than most people think.  Even waiting for the so-called lame duck session after the election might be too late to undo the damage from uncertainty.  Businesses have to make investment plans for next year by September or October, and leaving all the tax hikes in place will force them to scale back on any expansion plans they might have — or even push businesses into contraction, just in case those tax hikes take a huge bite out of consumer demand.  That would almost certainly force Bernanke into taking a ride on the QE3 that investors have assumed the Fed would undertake anyway, which would weaken the dollar further while government takes a bigger bite out of the wallet.

If Murray wants to hold an election defending those outcomes, well, Republicans would probably be fine with it.  I’d guess that Congress cuts a deal that kicks the can down the road another year, though, possibly in September but more likely in mid-November.


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I’d guess that Congress cuts a deal that kicks the can down the road another year

Smart power.

BacaDog on July 17, 2012 at 10:46 AM

Democrat Intransigence

Democrats say they’ll let all the Bush-era tax cuts expire if they can’t raise taxes on the rich. Apparently, economic catastrophe is a reasonable price to pay for class warfare politics.

Patty should not have used that word.

Intransigent, transubstantial transcendental verbs intransitive.

Fleuries on July 17, 2012 at 10:46 AM

Where’s lowereastside to blame this all on the Rethuglicans who control the Senate?

Del Dolemonte on July 17, 2012 at 10:50 AM

Now the market is crashing…..again.

Electrongod on July 17, 2012 at 10:50 AM

I’d guess that Congress cuts a deal that kicks the can down the road another year, though, possibly in September but more likely in mid-November.

ding ding ding…..

cmsinaz on July 17, 2012 at 10:50 AM

All part of the plan.

So when does TFGRP start sporting a beret and a parrot on his shoulder?

Bishop on July 17, 2012 at 10:52 AM

…tell me they are not insane!

KOOLAID2 on July 17, 2012 at 10:52 AM

Ben,

print more money. our kids can pay for it. Don’t worry, you’ll
be retired and living off your “small government pension and lifetime healthcare”.

PS- please file and pay your taxes on time. I know that’s asking a lot but work on it.

acyl72 on July 17, 2012 at 10:52 AM

Raising the top rate by three points would generate less than $85 billion a year —

Who should we trust more to be productive with the $85 billion, people who knew how to manage finances well enough to prosper, or the most profligate spendthrifts in the history of the world, the Congress of the United States?

It seems to me that taking another $85,000,000,000 out of the private sector is akin to letting ravenous pigs eat your seed corn. Keep that up, and famine is certain.

MessesWithTexas on July 17, 2012 at 10:55 AM

Playing chicken? Talk to Patty Murray about that…

Thanks, Seattle, for foisting this idiot on the rest of us…

Khun Joe on July 17, 2012 at 10:55 AM

So when does TFGRP start sporting a beret and a parrot on his shoulder?

Bishop on July 17, 2012 at 10:52 AM

… and medals. lots and lots of medals.

Lost in Jersey on July 17, 2012 at 10:55 AM

“The last thing you want to do is to raise taxes in the middle of a recession, because that would just suck up—take more demand out of the economy and put businesses in a further hole.”

-Obama

Chuck Schick on July 17, 2012 at 10:58 AM

Ben: YOUR (and Timmy’s) policies are what made that cliff in the first place.
Physician, heal thyself.

LegendHasIt on July 17, 2012 at 10:58 AM

I’d guess that Congress cuts a deal that kicks the can down the road another year

Why not? That’s worked fine so far…
/s

bofh on July 17, 2012 at 11:01 AM

..not sure the re-election of that ditzy broad from Washington is a blessing in disguise or not. On one hand we coulda had an (R) in the Senate instead of this howling moonbat. On the other, she may just become the face of the Dem intransigence for the voting public in November.

Kind of a DWS in a page boy.

The War Planner on July 17, 2012 at 11:02 AM

I don’t think the fiscal cliff is ahead, I think we are over it and it’s just a short while till we hit bottom and the ACME safe falls on our collective heads.

hip shot on July 17, 2012 at 11:02 AM

Obama is a president who can’t get one person elected to vote for his budgets…not one.
If I was Romney I would point that out at ever speech, not one democrat, not one has voted for an Obama budget, that is how out of touch with reality Obama is.

Not one vote, not a single one…amazing that Romney is not beating him over the head with this.

right2bright on July 17, 2012 at 11:02 AM

So when does TFGRP start sporting a beret and a parrot on his shoulder?

Bishop on July 17, 2012 at 10:52 AM

..September 19th.

The War Planner on July 17, 2012 at 11:04 AM

Bernanke giving lectures. What an ass. He and his predecessor have been instrumental in damaging this country economically, but, of course, they taken their orders from president and congress.

rickv404 on July 17, 2012 at 11:08 AM

This is the democrat’s plan in a nutshell…..

“Has it come to this, that Democrats are willing to hurt jobs and tank our economy for the sake of a small business tax hike that would also have disastrous consequences?” Boehner said in a written statement.

……this massive small business tax increase…just like Obamacare’s massive tax increases……hit the middle class directly.

This needs to be hammered home on a daily basis by Republicans.

Baxter Greene on July 17, 2012 at 11:08 AM

Chuck Schick on July 17, 2012 at 10:58 AM

Scary to think he could encourage the Dims to go out in a ball of fire along with him… in mid-November.

Then he can sit back and write his “It wasn’t my fault they wouldn’t compromise yield” autobiography.

VietVet_Dave on July 17, 2012 at 11:09 AM

Bite me, Ben….

TeresainFortWorth on July 17, 2012 at 11:10 AM

Well, Uncle Pookie on the couch ain’t ever gonna here about any of this. (He’ll vote Odumbo, hoping for some cash from his stash.)

Secondly, whatever the outcome of this fubar, they’ll just wind up printing more cash. Inflation = A de facto tax increase.

RedCrow on July 17, 2012 at 11:11 AM

Government spending *is* taxation.

EddieC on July 17, 2012 at 11:13 AM

In other words, waiting until 2013 will push the economy into a tailspin this year, not next,

Ha! Then President Romney can constantly refer to the inherited recession being all Obama and the Dems fault for three years and get a pass. Right, LSM?

Dusty on July 17, 2012 at 11:13 AM

Nothing happens before November. There is a chance of some kind of “can kick” in the lame duck session that follows, but it will likely be just a continuation of the current fiscal framework to allow time for the new Congress to act. The politicians will have a ten month window in 2013, from January to November, to fix the problem.

TouchdownBuddha on July 17, 2012 at 11:13 AM

Patty Murray looks too much like Milhouse for me to take her seriously.

rhombus on July 17, 2012 at 11:13 AM

IF Mitt were smart he would start talking about the Democrat’s planned DEPRESSION as that would get the attention of the 0bamaGanda Press and the American people. Also, that would shut down any more propaganda of blaming Bush for the economy.

Here is a bit of trivia to consider:
The last time the Democrats passed a budget, Sarah Palin was governor of Alaska.
The last time Dems passed a budget, Tiger Woods was happily married.
When the Senate Dems last passed a budget, Elena Kagan had never served as a judge.
The last time Dems passed a budget, Barack Obama wasn’t a proud Nobel Peace Prize recipient.

Would someone please give Willard those clues!

DannoJyd on July 17, 2012 at 11:15 AM

Why not, the democrats have a thousand times before.

Only politics matters. Ruling over the ruins is far more preferable than not ruling, right, Alinskyites?

Speakup on July 17, 2012 at 11:16 AM

Several years ago Obama said something to the effect that he wanted the rich to pay a higher rate even if it didn’t raise revenue. That quote should be revived.

burt on July 17, 2012 at 11:17 AM

Playing chicken? Talk to Patty Murray about that…

Thanks, Seattle, for foisting this idiot on the rest of us…

Khun Joe on July 17, 2012 at 10:55 AM

Actually my low-info friend, it was the Tea Party and Palin that gave Patty her seat. Dino Rossi could have won that position.

Mr. Arrogant on July 17, 2012 at 11:22 AM

Since when is raising taxes on anyone a political winner? GHW Bush lost by giving in to a tax increase. Is the American public so blind that they ignore the consequences of a tax on anyone in this economy? We are stuck on stupid!

Christian Conservative on July 17, 2012 at 11:23 AM

Where’s lowereastside to blame this all on the Rethuglicans who control the Senate?

Del Dolemonte on July 17, 2012 at 10:50 AM

She works the late shift at Arby’s and so sleeps late.

slickwillie2001 on July 17, 2012 at 11:25 AM

Democrats say they’ll let all the Bush-era tax cuts expire if they can’t raise taxes on the rich. Apparently, economic catastrophe is a reasonable price to pay for class warfare politics.

Then lets do it. It is inevitable that the economy is going to crash at some point. Lets do it now and get it over with.

The dolts in charge have been kicking this can down the road for decades, and finally the can bounced into a dead end alley.

The sooner the storm hits, the sooner we can start a real recovery.

BobMbx on July 17, 2012 at 11:29 AM

History shows that raising taxes during a recession, causes a deeper recession, don’t These ppl look back at the history and see this???? Oh, that’s right there is no history before they came into power………..

angrymike on July 17, 2012 at 11:31 AM

Oh, that’s right there is no history before they came into power………..

angrymike on July 17, 2012 at 11:31 AM

Lol. Well, what a democrat said yesterday can’t be used against them, so…

RedCrow on July 17, 2012 at 11:33 AM

The problem is that the Republicans in Congress have a history of caving on this type of bluff. Always fall for the media narrative that they are mean bastards that don’t care about the kids,blah blah. Don’t be surprised if they cave again. I don’t have much faith.

Hummer53 on July 17, 2012 at 11:34 AM

Wow,,,Al Franken in drag.

BigWyo on July 17, 2012 at 11:37 AM

I started an engineering consulting firm with a credit card in 1995 that I used to get my kids through college and pay off a house. I had a fiscal gun at my head at the time and took the only opportunity I thought I had and it paid off.

I was a one man gang except for a contract field tech that also worked in my lab occasionally. I sold it in 2001 when I could afford to slow down and have a real job again. My last three years averaged around $300k in revenue and I was lucky to see 1/3 of it but I worked 24/7 to make it happen.

That scenario can’t happen with Obama and the socialists he attracts.

DanMan on July 17, 2012 at 11:37 AM

Only politics matters. Ruling over the ruins is far more preferable than not ruling, right, Alinskyites?

Speakup on July 17, 2012 at 11:16 AM

Agree. People can ignore Glenn Beck all they want, but he consistently points out what’s happening here.

William Ayers must also be very joyful that Capitalism is getting creamed without throwing any actual incendiaries.

kirkill on July 17, 2012 at 11:38 AM

Well, as long as Goldman Sachs continues to make out like the bandits they are, Bernanke will have nothing to worry about. //

Scriptor on July 17, 2012 at 11:41 AM

Time to watch this again … ‘Quantitative Easing Explained’

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTUY16CkS-k

… has the FED ever been right about anything … uh, let me see … uh, No.

Pork-Chop on July 17, 2012 at 11:41 AM

KOOLAID2 on July 17, 2012 at 10:52 AM

They are not insane! Sorry, that’s a lie.

kirkill on July 17, 2012 at 11:45 AM

KOOLAID2 on July 17, 2012 at 10:52 AM

I thought about reassuring you but “I can not tell a lie.”

chemman on July 17, 2012 at 11:46 AM

angrymike on July 17, 2012 at 11:31 AM

They are conditioned to ignore history, facts, and basic logic.

kirkill on July 17, 2012 at 11:47 AM

You’ll notice that Murry is still pushing the Kool Aid of “their FAIR share”. Without defining “fair”. And they NEVER mention how little would be brought in with this “Fair” tax. Nor do they mention what they intend to do with the money……..besides SPEND IT.

GarandFan on July 17, 2012 at 11:49 AM

So when does TFGRP start sporting a beret and a parrot on his shoulder?

Bishop on July 17, 2012 at 10:52 AM

Sorry, I missed the memo on TFGRP -

“The First Gay Retard President” ?
“Tio Fidel’s Great Resurrection President” ?
“The Foreign Gulag Reinvestment President” ?
“The Fake Guantanamo Revisionist President” ?
“The Free Ganja Revolutionary Pretender” ?

Please help. Thanks.

Kenosha Kid on July 17, 2012 at 11:54 AM

Bernanke: Don’t play chicken with the fiscal cliff…….

……because you can’t imagine how much money me and my banker friends stand to lose if the system collapses. What we need is more legislation to ensure our continued profits and control of the treasury. So, please kick the can a little farther down the road, at least until we can get our personal wealth off-shore and into non-USD securities..like gold and stuff. I’ll be happy to lie my ass off to any question you may have for me today…and remember, I’ve got “the book” on all of you, so be careful in your questioning.”

BobMbx on July 17, 2012 at 11:54 AM

I started an engineering consulting firm with a credit card in 1995 that I used to get my kids through college and pay off a house. I had a fiscal gun at my head at the time and took the only opportunity I thought I had and it paid off.

I was a one man gang except for a contract field tech that also worked in my lab occasionally. I sold it in 2001 when I could afford to slow down and have a real job again. My last three years averaged around $300k in revenue and I was lucky to see 1/3 of it but I worked 24/7 to make it happen.

That scenario can’t happen with Obama and the socialists he attracts.

DanMan on July 17, 2012 at 11:37 AM

I met a guy around the same time here in New Hampshire who did basically the same thing. He even used his credit card to build his house.

He still owns it.

Del Dolemonte on July 17, 2012 at 12:07 PM

So when does TFGRP start sporting a beret and a parrot on his shoulder?

Bishop on July 17, 2012 at 10:52 AM

… and medals. lots and lots of medals.

Lost in Jersey on July 17, 2012 at 10:55 AM

Just one across O’s scrawny chest saying, “I killed Bin Laden” will do.

onlineanalyst on July 17, 2012 at 12:08 PM

Even if they do manage to get a deal done… whatever that deal ends up being… it will probably only be for one year. Next year we’ll be right back here having this same debate. Heaven fobrid a politician commit to anything longer than the next election.

gravityman on July 17, 2012 at 12:18 PM

Patty Murry – the Mother in Tennis Shoes.

Of course they turned out to be Left Wingtips once she was elected.

jaydee_007 on July 17, 2012 at 12:32 PM

Even if they do manage to get a deal done… whatever that deal ends up being… it will probably only be for one year. Next year we’ll be right back here having this same debate. Heaven fobrid a politician commit to anything longer than the next election.

gravityman on July 17, 2012 at 12:18 PM

No they won’t.

With Romney and a Republican Controlled House & Senate they’ll be talking about substantial Reform of the Tax Code; with the Media and Democrats squeeling like stuck pigs.

jaydee_007 on July 17, 2012 at 12:34 PM

The argument by both factions of The Party in Washington about “raising taxes” is just for show. Even if Republicans supposedly stop the Democrats from “raising taxes”, they’re just going to borrow/print the money anyway, which is not only a tax but it’s the worst kind that redistributes the money from the poorest Americans and the most responsible people who save their money to the elites who pass out the counterfeited money to their elite cronies and special interests. At least the Democrat faction is sort of honest about wanting to raise taxes. The Republican faction lies and pretends they oppose tax increases yet they support Bernanke, Geithner and the inflationary monetary policy that makes the tax cut/hike argument obsolete.

FloatingRock on July 17, 2012 at 12:34 PM

No they won’t.

With Romney and a Republican Controlled House & Senate they’ll be talking about substantial Reform of the Tax Code; with the Media and Democrats squeeling like stuck pigs.

jaydee_007 on July 17, 2012 at 12:34 PM

I just don’t believe that. We’ve had recent GOP Congresses and Presidents, and what have they done to reform the tax code or reduce spending? Not a damn thing. It benefits them just as much to have money to hand out to their donors, preferred industries, and political cronies. They have just as much of a vested interest in big government as the Democrats do.

Big government and big spending are not a GOP vs Dem issue… it’s a Washington politics issue.

gravityman on July 17, 2012 at 12:47 PM

FloatingRock on July 17, 2012 at 12:34 PM

They’re all the same right Floating Rock? Loser…

DanMan on July 17, 2012 at 12:53 PM

gravityman must be Floating Rock’s domestic partner, hey guys keep your pillow talk to yourselves

DanMan on July 17, 2012 at 12:54 PM

we are at the end of the great bubble of the last 20 years. Housing, Tech, Education, etc.

we have got it in our heads, from the socialists with support from the Fed that we can have everything. The American Dream has become borrowing $$$$ from others to buy big stuff to make me look classy.

Everything from big government to PEU pensions to CAGW has been based on an erroneous assumption that their are no limits.

which leads to the embarrassment of Wesley Clark

I still believe in E = mc². But I can’t believe that in all of human history we’ll never ever be able to go beyond the speed of light to reach where we want to go. I happen to believe that mankind can do it.

and other cranks

there are no solutions until people sober up and call out the cranks and socialists and crooks for what they are

r keller on July 17, 2012 at 12:56 PM

gravityman must be Floating Rock’s domestic partner, hey guys keep your pillow talk to yourselves

DanMan on July 17, 2012 at 12:54 PM

Thank you for the useful addition to the debate. Your wealth of knowledge and ability to break down complicated ideas into layman’s terms is truly astounding.

gravityman on July 17, 2012 at 1:00 PM

They’re all the same right Floating Rock? Loser…

DanMan on July 17, 2012 at 12:53 PM

Yes, in fact Obama and Romney are both on the record in support of Bernanke and Geithner’s inflationary Keynesian monetary policy, and inflation is in fact a hidden tax. Both parties are responsible for running up the debt to 16 trillion and both parties support the inflation, hence on this issue they are, indeed, the same. The only difference is that the D faction want to give the money to D cronies and special interests and the R faction wants to give it all to R cronies and special interests.

FloatingRock on July 17, 2012 at 1:16 PM

If the Republicans were smart, (as if) they would use the House to pass a 1 year extension for all the current rates every week until the election. They say that the only part of the Federal gov’ment they run did everything they could do to avoid the mess.

But I’m pretty sure that they will fumble this opportunity as they have so many others…

Sinner on July 17, 2012 at 2:27 PM

Obama says he’ll veto any bill that extends all the Bush tax cuts,

Looks as though he’s still running against Bush.

ss396 on July 17, 2012 at 2:45 PM

A Guide to American Gangsters: The American Financial Mafia…

Banks: All American banks are part of the criminal financial organization that controls most wealth in America. The CEOs of the biggest banks are the “dons” (Capo Crimini) in the American Financial Mafia. Many of these “dons” serve on Federal Reserve boards (like JP Morgan’s Dimon does), thus guaranteeing massive conflicts of interests and allowing the dons and their banks to financially benefit themselves above all others with the Fed’s FREE money.

Federal Reserve: aka, “The Commission” – The national ruling body of America’s Financial Mafia. The Fed is run by the seven members of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System. These and the members of Federal Open Market Committee (FOMC) and the twelve regional Federal Reserve Bank presidents located in major cities throughout the nation are the “bosses” of the American Financial Mafia, with the Fed Chairman, currently bailout bernanke, serving as the “Boss of the Bosses” (Cappo di tutti cappi).

The Fed tries to gain respectability by claiming that its role includes “Conducting the nation’s monetary policy by influencing money and credit conditions in the economy in pursuit of full employment and stable prices.” The past 3+ years of 8%+ unemployment and the corresponding massive decrease in the labor force participation rate proves that that claim is total bs. In reality, The Commission does only one thing: Ensure multi-BILLION dollar profits for BIG BANKS and Wall Street investors. In this respect, The Commission is almost identical to the the initial focus of the American branch of the criminal mafia named “La Costra Nostra” which was concentrated on protection rackets. The Fed serves as a “protector” of BIG BANK and Wall Street profits, while doing nothing for “Main Street” America.

After nearly a hundred years the American criminal mafia still flourishes. Yet, all the criminal actions of the criminal mafia amount to small potatoes compared to the reduced standard of living for the average middle class and poor Americans that has resulted from the many asset and equity bubbles created by the irresponsible actions of the far more powerful, far more insidious and far more dangerous American Financial Mafia.

ABOLISH THE AMERICAN FINANCIAL MAFIA – this is the ONLY thing that people agree on across the entire political spectrum, from the union/d-cRAT party-funded leftist extremist #occupy astroturf to the right-wing kook moRon PaulBOTS.

TeaPartyNation on July 17, 2012 at 3:19 PM

Yes, all of this whoopla about taxing only the rich is a lie. We know that this is a tax raise on all. The most impacted being the middle class small business owner.

However, until these small business owners let their employees know the impact elections have on their jobs and benefits things will not change. This is what my brother in law told his employees back in the fall of 2010 regarding the drastic changes in their Health Benefits:

Elections have consequences. Legislation passed has impacted this companies ability to provide the same health care beneifts as in the past. While many of you have voiced your complaints and grumbled, just remember next time you vote the impact. Now, I have to go and look at my bottom line to determine who I can afford to continue to provide employment to, please, when you vote remember your vote impacts more than who gets elected.

Elections have consequences.

Maybe then we’ll see some of these idiots not being voted into office and we’ll see real change in DC.

uhangtight on July 17, 2012 at 3:44 PM

Elections have consequences.

uhangtight on July 17, 2012 at 3:44 PM

Elections don’t have consequences, it doesn’t matter who you vote for, spending goes up, debt goes up, inflation goes up, the jobs go overseas, the coal goes overseas where our old jobs are, and the cronies and special interests benefit.

FloatingRock on July 17, 2012 at 4:00 PM

alright FloatingRock and gravityman I’ll apologize but if you defeatists are so sure there’s no difference then why are you bothering to comment on a political blog? Your attitudes make Allah sound like Pollyanna. We don’t needed to be reminded of the disappointments the GOP has rendered. Calling them on it is great, crying about is going nowhere.

The democrats have gone full tilt socialist after having played the long game for 100 years. For almost 50 of those years they had no opposition. You both have raised the white flag and are offering nothing constructive here while many of us are working our asses off to rid the party of the Spectors and Hutchisons that allow the incrementalism to persist.

By ballot or bankruptcy this charade cannot go on. If you’re tired go back to the porch.

DanMan on July 17, 2012 at 4:27 PM

If you’re tired go back to the porch.

DanMan on July 17, 2012 at 4:27 PM

That doesn’t make sense, we’re not the defeatists who are giving up and surrendering, we’re the ones still fighting the status quo and standing on principle. It’s people like you who are either unprincipled or have abandoned their principles who have given up.

FloatingRock on July 17, 2012 at 4:35 PM

Takes TWO to play chicken.

Obviously the Democrats think they have nothing or little to lose (and much to gain) — that the Republicans would lose more — so they think they can go to the edge because the other guys will chicken out. Well, sometimes both go over the edge. Time will tell who was right in the end.

It seems to be that the “conventional wisdom” is that Democrats would come out okay and Republicans will crash and burn. That was why, with the 2010 elections staring at them, the Democrats insisted that they were going to be okay. I don’t know about 2012 but if the US goes off a fiscal cliff in 2013 (assuming Republicans do get the Senate and maybe the White House, and they try to avert it asap) and the voters decide that the Democrats were to blame, for what did happen, and show their feelings in 2014 by smashing the Democrats, I don’t think anybody would want to play fiscal chicken as much anymore. (somewhat fanciful thinking on my part :))

Russ808 on July 17, 2012 at 5:23 PM

it doesn’t matter who you vote for

FloatingRock on July 17, 2012 at 4:00 PM

DanMan on July 17, 2012 at 5:50 PM

I despise both Obummer and Bernanke for destroying our childrens’ future.

Mitt was not my favorite candidate but he has said he would fire Bernanke and that alone is reason enough for me to vote for him.

sherrimae on July 17, 2012 at 8:37 PM

Mitt was not my favorite candidate but he has said he would fire Bernanke and that alone is reason enough for me to vote for him.
sherrimae on July 17, 2012 at 8:37 PM

Unfortunately, Mitt CAN’T fire him, and if he actually said he would, he is either ignorant, or lying. (or both)

“they must then be confirmed by the Senate and serve for 14 years.[2] Once appointed, Governors may not be removed from office for their policy opinions.

LegendHasIt on July 18, 2012 at 7:59 PM