FBI: No racial bias in Trayvon Martin shooting

posted at 10:41 am on July 13, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

Discovery documents released yesterday shows that the special prosecutor in the Trayvon Martin shooting case has a difficult task in front of her.  The presumed motive for the shooting, which defendant George Zimmerman claims was necessary to save his life, was racism.  The FBI investigation ruled out that motive, NBC’s Miami affiliate reports — but that doesn’t mean Zimmerman is out of the woods yet:

View more videos at: http://nbcmiami.com.

The FBI found no racial bias behind George Zimmerman’s shooting of Miami Gardens teen Trayvon Martin, according to dozens of documents related to the case released Thursday.

The second round of discovery documents released by prosecutors include reports from the FBI, Florida Department of Law Enforcement and State Attorney’s Office as well as photos of the crime scene, aerial photos, police calls and surveillance video related to the shooting.

Zimmerman, 28, is charged with second-degree murder for the killing of Martin, 17, in a Sanford gated community in February. He claims he shot Martin in self-defense.

The documents from the State Attorney’s Office include memorandums of interviews between investigators and witnesses, family members and officers who responded to the scene and worked on the case.

This may doom a second-degree murder case, in which there has to be some malice present prior to the killing.  It doesn’t negate the possibility of a manslaughter charge, though, which doesn’t necessarily require a showing of malice.  If the government has evidence that the use of lethal force was not a reasonable choice, Zimmerman could still be found guilty of manslaughter, as lethal force in self-defense can only be used when a reasonable person would conclude that it was the only way to save himself from death or grave bodily harm.

However, changing the charge from second-degree murder to manslaughter might be tough under the circumstances for the special prosecutor in this case.  Technically, the FBI was working on a civil-rights case for the DoJ and not for the state’s special prosecutor, but the defense will certainly produce the FBI’s conclusion that racial bias played no part in the shooting during a second-degree murder trial.  Having led with the second-degree charge,  the special prosecutor’s credibility will be seriously undermined by the FBI report, and an attempt to shift the charge downward will undermine it even further.  Unless the state has overwhelming evidence that the FBI missed, their case is in serious trouble.


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If any threads are going to get libfreeordie to uncloak and post again, this is bound to be one them.
rogerb on July 13, 2012 at 11:52 AM

 
I have been…
libfreeordie on July 13, 2012 at 12:08 PM

 
Well played. For the record, I disagree with anyone posting your personal info, just as I disagreed with you posting so much personal info. Be careful out there.
 
And now back to our regularly scheduled programming. Old/busted:
 

The problem is the silence from the “pro-liberty” folks on police brutality and government overreach until they became the target of these kinds of policies.

libfreeordie on December 18, 2011 at 5:22 PM

Hot Air/Conservative media silence on the Libor scandal shows who the right really looks out for. Meanwhile there was wall to wall ACORN-gate coverage.

libfreeordie on July 10, 2012 at 7:01 AM

GOP Congressman attacks an honored military vet who sacrificed her limbs in American wars there is absolute silence. Nothing on Hot Air… and you should be ashamed.

libfreeordie on July 9, 2012 at 8:26 AM

Because conservatives who complain about the unconstitutionality of funding a media organization were dead silent when…

libfreeordie on April 10, 2012 at 12:20 PM

the NYPD targets living African American men for crimes they have not committed. Conservatism is silent.

libfreeordie on May 18, 2012 at 12:42 PM

Y’all are *silent* on the diamond trade.

libfreeordie on April 15, 2012 at 11:35 AM

 
New hotness:

…have said I “deserved” to be outed because I supported the filming of Republican politicians. I never once even posted in either of those threads. Not once.
 
libfreeordie on July 13, 2012 at 12:08 PM

 
Glad to have you back, btw.

rogerb on July 13, 2012 at 2:43 PM

juliesa on July 13, 2012 at 2:33 PM

That’s too much clutter for his feeble mind. He has his talking points from Sharpton et al. That’s good enough for him.

NotCoach on July 13, 2012 at 2:38 PM

Yeah, and the media got their talking points from there too. Crump paid a lefty pr firm to shop lies to the media, and they fell for it. Most people did. The difference between us and them is that once we saw the actual evidence, we realized that this young Hispanic Democrat might not be guilty after all, and certainly not of murder.

juliesa on July 13, 2012 at 2:44 PM

farsighted on July 13, 2012 at 2:20 PM

Don’t get me wrong. It shouldn’t have been outed, but I waste no sympathy on that vile troll.

novaculus on July 13, 2012 at 2:44 PM

The version of events I’m going on was digested by Talkleft’s Jeralyn Merrit. I posted a link above. I have also read some of the transcripts of interviews with police and witnesses, as well as GZ’s account.

So far, I and everyone else have seen no evidence that contradicts GZ’s account. One circumstantial thing that impressed me was that GZ, when told by police (falsely) that TM had filmed the encounter with his phone, expressed happiness over that. He was really praying that there was video. But that’s just one little thing. Read all the evidence, and be sure to listen again to the complete phone call to the police.

juliesa

Yeah I already knew about the hatchet job that was done on the original phone call by the MSM. I’m not a lefty. Far from it actually. I just don’t get my news from Fox (or MSNBC). When news is that slanted what’s the point?

I’ll go look at your link and see what’s there but whatever it may be won’t change the fact that Zimmerman and his wife lied to the court. That all by itself is enough for me to doubt any recollection of that night’s events he’s given.

Benaiah on July 13, 2012 at 2:47 PM

rogerb on July 13, 2012 at 2:43 PM

Brilliant takedown. Just brilliant.

novaculus on July 13, 2012 at 2:47 PM

Don’t get me wrong. It shouldn’t have been outed, but I waste no sympathy on that vile troll.

novaculus on July 13, 2012 at 2:44 PM

I agree with you completely. I should have been explicit about that. I was just adding on to what you said.

farsighted on July 13, 2012 at 2:48 PM

Benaiah on July 13, 2012 at 2:47 PM

Great. If you go there be sure to read the comments and some of the other posts she’s made on the subject. Between her multiple posts and the comments, it’s a pretty thorough and balanced treatment, IMHO.

juliesa on July 13, 2012 at 2:52 PM

I’ll go look at your link and see what’s there but whatever it may be won’t change the fact that Zimmerman and his wife lied to the court.

meh. Considering the stakes involved, I wouldn’t be the least surprised that they couldn’t/didn’t get the amount to declare to the court correct under pressure.

But even if i were to grant that much, how serious could it have been, since the same judge still granted him bail and the only thing changed is the amount of bond?

That all by itself is enough for me to doubt any recollection of that night’s events he’s given.

Benaiah on July 13, 2012 at 2:47 PM

So basically, that broken nose and lacerations to the *back* of his head was what, mosquito bites?

2 men fought: 1 was armed, the other not. Both were close enough that 1 received wounds consistent to having someone sitting on his chest and striking his skull into the pavement. That is fact and supported by the First responders to the scene, and is in the official report.

I think at that point, the weapon was fought over by TM & GZ…the gun was fired by GZ to probably keep TM from using it against him OR that is was an accidental discharge as he tried to retain his firearm.

Either way, I’m sorry the kid’s gone, but lets not act like GZ ambushed him while he was in the shower.

BlaxPac on July 13, 2012 at 3:02 PM

Great. If you go there be sure to read the comments and some of the other posts she’s made on the subject. Between her multiple posts and the comments, it’s a pretty thorough and balanced treatment, IMHO.

juliesa

The main problem I have with it is that she seems to be basing that entire argument on GZ’s account of the situation being true. I understand that witness accounts back his story but they only saw part of the confrontation. As I said, his contempt charge for lying to the court throws his entire story out the window as far as I’m concerned.

Benaiah on July 13, 2012 at 3:06 PM

Benaiah on July 13,2012 at 3:06 PM

You did not believe GZ’s account before the contempt charge.

kingsjester on July 13, 2012 at 3:08 PM

Either way, I’m sorry the kid’s gone, but lets not act like GZ ambushed him while he was in the shower.

BlaxPac on July 13, 2012 at 3:02 PM

I know! It wasn’t like they were in the Penn State lockerroom or anything!

cptacek on July 13, 2012 at 3:09 PM

So basically, that broken nose and lacerations to the *back* of his head was what, mosquito bites?

2 men fought: 1 was armed, the other not. Both were close enough that 1 received wounds consistent to having someone sitting on his chest and striking his skull into the pavement. That is fact and supported by the First responders to the scene, and is in the official report.

I think at that point, the weapon was fought over by TM & GZ…the gun was fired by GZ to probably keep TM from using it against him OR that is was an accidental discharge as he tried to retain his firearm.

Either way, I’m sorry the kid’s gone, but lets not act like GZ ambushed him while he was in the shower.

BlaxPac

It’s possible that that’s what happened but it’s also possible that GZ went for his gun when TM got close to him and the struggle happened after that. To me that would be a reasonable response if you were within lunging distance of a guy who was about to draw a gun on you.

Benaiah on July 13, 2012 at 3:09 PM

Benaiah on July 13,2012 at 3:06 PM

You did not believe GZ’s account before the contempt charge.

kingsjester

It would be tough to believe it if I’d never heard it. I still haven’t since that blogger wrote an opinion based on it and I didn’t see a link to the actual account.

Benaiah on July 13, 2012 at 3:12 PM

It’s possible that that’s what happened but it’s also possible that GZ went for his gun when TM got close to him and the struggle happened after that.

Sure, possible, but less so. Think about it, this is a untrained kid that is willing to *charge* someone that’s drawing a weapon? Sure, it could happen, but it’s a rare instinct indeed.

To go one step further, TM had to cross a noticeable amount of distance in less time it took for GZ to draw and fire. GZ had to choose to draw and either fire at once OR use the weapon to get TM to surrender or halt his approach.

To me that would be a reasonable response if you were within lunging distance of a guy who was about to draw a gun on you.

Benaiah on July 13, 2012 at 3:09 PM

So, if TM was that fast enough to get that close, but he couldn’t disarm GZ? Or, that GZ was that fast to draw, but so slow to decide what to do that TM got close enough to fight him AND be within a chance of turning the weapon on him?

Occum’s Razor : TM confronted GZ, because he felt he could intimidate the guy…which worked to a point, because his weapon was still in holster. Physical violence occurred, then GZ was able to get the weapon and fired once…after he sustained fight injuries to his person.

The only reason why this case is even getting traction is the perceived racial angle and this perverse pretzel twisting the Left is doing to compare this to man to some damn serial killer/racist. Race has nothing to do with this, nor vigilantism….they fought and the kid died.

BlaxPac on July 13, 2012 at 3:29 PM

Benaiah on July 13, 2012 at 3:09 PM

May, could, possibly, maybe, theoretically, hypothetically…whatever. None of that matters. What matters in a court of law is evidence. What evidence is there to support a charge of 2nd degree murder? The allegations of perjury won’t be allowed into the evidentiary record when the trial begins. It has no bearing on the charges against him.

Innocent until proven guilty. And there is just nowhere near enough evidence for a 2nd degree murder charge, and very flimsy evidence for a manslaughter charge. Furthermore, the entire idea that Zimmerman stalked Martin was fabricated from whole cloth by the media and race hustlers. Turns out there is no evidence to support such a scenario, only a lot of speculation and wish casting. The jurors will have no reason to disbelieve Zimmerman’s account of the events because they will see no evidence contrary to his account based on what we know so far.

NotCoach on July 13, 2012 at 3:32 PM

…it’s also possible that GZ went for his gun when TM got close to him and the struggle happened after that. To me that would be a reasonable response if you were within lunging distance of a guy who was about to draw a gun on you.
 
Benaiah on July 13, 2012 at 3:09 PM

 
Your scenario would mean Zimmerman’s unannounced and concealed firearm wasn’t a known threat and Trayvon initiated an assault that Zimmerman defended himself against.
 
You realize that’s what you’re saying, right?

rogerb on July 13, 2012 at 3:39 PM

I know I should leave well enough alone

but it is infuriating to be lied about.

That is all.

libfreeordie on July 13, 2012 at 12:08 PM

That is rich coming from a liberal. Welcome to the Tea Party, champ.

Rational Thought on July 13, 2012 at 3:47 PM

Innocent until proven guilty.

NotCoach on July 13, 2012 at 3:32 PM

That bedrock principle has been tossed out in this case.

The Zimmerman standard of justice seems to be that any remotely plausible scenario in which GZ murdered TM is deemed to be the likely truth until proven otherwise, and evidence to the contrary is discounted in favor of unlikely speculation that does not fit the facts as we know them.

Meanwhile, both George and his wife have been deprived of their livelihoods and must live in hiding in fear for their lives. They are living in fear for their future and they are almost broke with no means of generating income. About the only asset they had was the money in the Paypal defense fund. And people wonder why they did not volunteer that info when not not explicitly asked about it by the judge and the prosecution — when the prosecution already knew about it during the hearing. They should have volunteered the info, and their attorney who also knew about it at the time of the hearing should have advised them to, but they did not. I can’t judge them harshly for that, all things considered.

farsighted on July 13, 2012 at 3:58 PM

Hey, O’Mara finally filed a motion to disqualify the judge. It’s about time. Lester’s conduct has been outrageous.

Blake on July 13, 2012 at 4:14 PM

. And people wonder why they did not volunteer that info when not not explicitly asked about it by the judge and the prosecution — when the prosecution already knew about it during the hearing.

Wits are always told not to volunteer information and not to guess or estimate. If it is important enough to be in the record, the defense should ask follow up questions. O’Mara did not do this. This is not the Zimmerman’s fault. Just one more example of them being treated like shite by the judicial system.

Blake on July 13, 2012 at 4:16 PM

So the fast and furious investigation is dragging on, while framing this American is involving some of the greatest racist minds in the USA and Bozo legal stooges.

Pathetic.

Hening on July 13, 2012 at 4:16 PM

Hey, O’Mara finally filed a motion to disqualify the judge. It’s about time. Lester’s conduct has been outrageous.

Blake on July 13, 2012 at 4:14 PM

For more…

George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Accuses Judge Of Flagrant Bias Against His Client

farsighted on July 13, 2012 at 4:18 PM

May, could, possibly, maybe, theoretically, hypothetically…whatever. None of that matters. What matters in a court of law is evidence. What evidence is there to support a charge of 2nd degree murder? The allegations of perjury won’t be allowed into the evidentiary record when the trial begins. It has no bearing on the charges against him.

Innocent until proven guilty. And there is just nowhere near enough evidence for a 2nd degree murder charge, and very flimsy evidence for a manslaughter charge. Furthermore, the entire idea that Zimmerman stalked Martin was fabricated from whole cloth by the media and race hustlers. Turns out there is no evidence to support such a scenario, only a lot of speculation and wish casting. The jurors will have no reason to disbelieve Zimmerman’s account of the events because they will see no evidence contrary to his account based on what we know so far.

NotCoach

And there’s the rub. Either way we’ll probably never know exactly what led up to the shooting as there’s too little evidence. So Zimmerman will probably walk even if he is guilty. And, because it will be for lack of evidence, I’m sure there will be those that hound him for the rest of his life over this.

Benaiah on July 13, 2012 at 4:19 PM

So Zimmerman will probably walk even if he is guilty. And, because it will be for lack of evidence, I’m sure there will be those that hound him for the rest of his life over this.
 
Benaiah on July 13, 2012 at 4:19 PM

 
Three hours ago:
 

It wasn’t racial? Umm okay but an innocent kid is still dead. I don’t see how this changes anything.
 
Benaiah on July 13, 2012 at 1:03 PM

 
Well done.

rogerb on July 13, 2012 at 4:24 PM

For more…

George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Accuses Judge Of Flagrant Bias Against His Client

farsighted on July 13, 2012 at 4:18 PM

Lester’s behavior has been very bad. If this motion is denied, I sure hope there is a mechanism to seek appellate review. Lester had done everything he could to deprive GZ of a fair trial, including siccing the prosecution after his wife. Lester is a real dirtbag.

Blake on July 13, 2012 at 4:29 PM

Lester’s behavior has been very bad. If this motion is denied, I sure hope there is a mechanism to seek appellate review. Lester had done everything he could to deprive GZ of a fair trial, including siccing the prosecution after his wife. Lester is a real dirtbag.

Blake on July 13, 2012 at 4:29 PM

It’s almost as if Lester wants off the trial. Like he wants to dump it on the next judge in line. IIRC, the judge who would have gotten it before Lester made a pretty lame excuse to pass it up.

farsighted on July 13, 2012 at 4:35 PM

It’s almost as if Lester wants off the trial. Like he wants to dump it on the next judge in line. IIRC, the judge who would have gotten it before Lester made a pretty lame excuse to pass it up.

farsighted on July 13, 2012 at 4:35 PM

That thought has crossed my mine. However, he is sworn to uphold the law and not throw a tantrum in court and deprive a def of d/p. I blame the race baiters, Flopsweat, the SPD, the Seminole Co. Court system, Holder, and Obama for creating a situation of career suicide for anyone involved in the defense. Worse, they have created a situation where the def, his family, the wits, and anyone else involved with the defense are subject to threats. Chief Lee tried to resign initially b/c of death threats to him and his family.

Blake on July 13, 2012 at 4:56 PM

If I had a son, he’d look like the poker player Jeff Shulman. Is that helpful? At all? Anyone?

Paul-Cincy on July 13, 2012 at 5:52 PM

I find it hilarious that me posting that I thought Zimmerman would get in trouble for still following the guy, when told “we don’t need you to do that” has me called a Lefty.

Now that is hilarious.

Dino V on July 13, 2012 at 5:52 PM

Now that is hilarious.

Dino V on July 13, 2012 at 5:52 PM

That’s what got him trouble?

I find it hilarious you don’t seem to have any idea what is actually going on.

NotCoach on July 13, 2012 at 5:59 PM

I have a pretty good idea what’s going on.

Here it is.

Zimmerman is on the neighborhood watch. He sees a suspicious guy walking around the area in a hoody and calls 911. He gives a description and location to the police, then is supposed to meet them when they get there.

After the call the two have a confrontation, one is dead, the other is beaten pretty bad.

Next come the race baiters and the press and they make a huge sensation out of a “race story” that they can generate ratings with. Now, I posted, that I figured, Zimmerman could still be in trouble. And in saying that, I’m being called names and being judged by other people on this board cause I just happen not to post here often.

But please, keep telling me I’m a lefty and that I’m “spewing talking points” its actually funny.

I think Zimmerman could have gotten out of the situation without anyone dying. Bottom line.

I’m a gun loving, hunting fool and still, no one had to die in my opinion.

Dino V on July 13, 2012 at 6:07 PM

I think Zimmerman could have gotten out of the situation without anyone dying. Bottom line.

Dino V on July 13, 2012 at 6:07 PM

If there wasn’t a neighborhood watch for him to join no one would have been killed either.

sharrukin on July 13, 2012 at 6:11 PM

Dino V on July 13, 2012 at 6:07 PM

The problem is, is that you don’t really know. None of do, that’s why there will be a trial.

Cindy Munford on July 13, 2012 at 6:14 PM

I think Zimmerman could have gotten out of the situation without anyone dying. Bottom line.

Dino V on July 13, 2012 at 6:07 PM

And so could Trayvon. He was only a few hundred feet from his father’s girlfriend’s townhouse and had a lead on Zimmerman, if what he said in the 911 is believed, and we have no reason not to believe it.

Your thumbnail summary scenario leaves out and skips a lot of known relevant information.

As far as being called a lefty… I went over the comments and saw one poster comment you were repeating a debunked lefty talking point. You were.

That does not mean you were called a lefty.

But it does mean that at a minimum after many months of reporting and official document releases on this case you are not very well informed about the known facts.

There is only about a two or three minute interval of time between when Zimmerman hung up on the 911 call and the shooting. Eyewitness testimony covering that time period either supports Zimmerman’s account or is inconclusive, apparently even after Corey’s little helpers tried hard to get them to change or retract. There is no testimony I am aware of that directly contradicts Zimmerman’s account.

Here is a report from Reuters, hardly a right wing source, that investigates the events leading up to the shooting and sheds light on why Zimmerman behaved the way he did.

George Zimmerman: Prelude to a shooting

farsighted on July 13, 2012 at 6:32 PM

Libfree couldn’t stay away. Its words are as believable as Obummers’s.

CW on July 13, 2012 at 7:05 PM

hink Zimmerman could have gotten out of the situation without anyone dying. Bottom line.

Dino V on July 13, 2012 at 6:07 PM

Based on what?

Should he ignore his gut instinct?

No we don’t have to live in fear and no he did not have to give up following the kid. He was not ordered to not follow Martin.

You do realize in general cops are reactive to crime right? You do understand that for the most part you cannot sue for their failure to protect you?

CW on July 13, 2012 at 7:10 PM

Zimmerman could have gotten out of the situation without anyone dying. Bottom line.

Dino V on July 13, 2012 at 6:07 PM

Based on what?

CW on July 13, 2012 at 7:10 PM

Giving Dino V the benefit of the doubt, because he is sensitive about people telling him he is repeating debunked lefty talking points, I assume he thinks Zimmerman should have just reported Trayvon and gone on his way, or waited in his truck until the cops showed up.

In most relatively crime free neighborhoods maybe that is what a Watch Captain would do. But that neighborhood was rapidly degenerating from a peaceful solidly middle class townhome development into a marked easy pickens crime ridden neighborhood.

And as a free man living in the USA in a neighborhood undergoing a crime wave he had every right to get out of his truck and see where Trayvon disappeared to, which is what he did and what he said he was doing on the 911 call.

farsighted on July 13, 2012 at 7:29 PM

Zimmerman should have stayed in the truck. By his own account TM was looking at him at one point. What we have are two people scaring one another into an eventual conflict that didn’t have to end up in a fight then shooting. Was TM scoping out houses to rob? Probably not. Was Zim out to kill soneone? Highly doubtful. But in the end, when nothing illegal was actually happening, a series if events lead to a confrontation and the death of a young man. When you carry a gun, you are 100% responsible for what happens. Zim should have known that any mistep by him in anyway could result in the gun being drawn and fired.

I don’t believe Zim wanted to kill anyone, but as the gun owner, he had the most responsibility for acting properly.

Dino V on July 13, 2012 at 7:30 PM

If any threads are going to get libfreeordie to uncloak and post again, this is bound to be one them.

rogerb on July 13, 2012 at 11:52 AM

.
I have been…

libfreeordie on July 13, 2012 at 12:08 PM

Well played. For the record, I disagree with anyone posting your personal info, just as I disagreed with you posting so much personal info. Be careful out there.
.
New hotness:

…have said I “deserved” to be outed because I supported the filming of Republican politicians. I never once even posted in either of those threads. Not once.

libfreeordie on July 13, 2012 at 12:08 PM

.
Glad to have you back, btw.

rogerb on July 13, 2012 at 2:43 PM

.
Dittos what rogerb said.

And kudos to Allahpundit for getting in and “laying down the law” on that matter. That should be a bannable offense.
.
Oh . . . and libfree’, I also support the filming of Republican politicians.
.
Hmmm . . . I should alter that slightly.

I also support the filming of Republican politicians.

.
That’s better. : )

listens2glenn on July 13, 2012 at 7:41 PM

Was TM scoping out houses to rob? Probably not.

And you base that on what?

Trayvon Martin’s Facebook page had requests such as…“Damn were u at a ***** needa plant.” I don’t think he was selling flowers, but maybe thats how you interpret it?

A Twitter post makes reference to Trayvon having “swung on a bus driver” a few days before he died. He was suspended for ten days from school which is why he was at his father’s.

Oddly the Trayvon’s family lawyer has sealed his school records.

Was Zim out to kill soneone? Highly doubtful. But in the end, when nothing illegal was actually happening, a series if events lead to a confrontation and the death of a young man.

Last time I checked physical assault was still not legal.

When you carry a gun, you are 100% responsible for what happens. Zim should have known that any mistep by him in anyway could result in the gun being drawn and fired.

I don’t believe Zim wanted to kill anyone, but as the gun owner, he had the most responsibility for acting properly.

Dino V on July 13, 2012 at 7:30 PM

No you are not 100% responsible for what happens. If someone tries to kill you, you are not responsible for his homicidal actions simply because you are armed.

sharrukin on July 13, 2012 at 7:47 PM

Zimmerman should have stayed in the truck.

Dino V on July 13, 2012 at 7:30 PM

Trayvon should have continued going home. He was almost there.

What we have are two people scaring one another into an eventual conflict…

Speculation.

…that didn’t have to end up in a fight then shooting.

If Trayvon had just continued on home there would not have been a “fight”. Some might call it an attack. Zimmerman does, and the evidence and eyewitness testimony supports him. Which is why no charges were filed until the race baiters and the MSM went to work.

Zimmerman says Trayvon attacked him, and his account is consistent with the evidence. I have no idea what the DA is trying to prove happened. The burden of proof is on them. But unless there is something we do not know, and we know a lot including the statements of the witnesses, the prosecution has no case. Not even for manslaughter. The evidence indicates self-defense, which is why people do CCW to begin with.

farsighted on July 13, 2012 at 7:51 PM

Dino V on July 13, 2012 at 6:07 PM

No, you still don’t get it. Was Zimmerman going to be charged at all before this turned into a ridiculous story about race?

NotCoach on July 13, 2012 at 8:29 PM

Was TM scoping out houses to rob? Probably not.

Dino V on July 13, 2012 at 7:30 PM

According to a report issued by Trayvon’s school district, on October 21, security camera footage showed Trayvon Martin and two other students writing “W.T.F.” on a hallway locker. A security guard saw the footage, detained Trayvon and searched his bag for the offending marker. In the process of the search, the guard uncovered 12 pieces of women’s jewelry, a watch and the screwdriver.

So maybe in addition to selling flowers part time he also makes women’s jewelry in craft class? /

sharrukin on July 13, 2012 at 9:42 PM

Dino,
“When you carry a gun, you are 100% responsible for what happens”

When you hit bang someone’s head into the sidewalk, you are 100% responsible for what happens.

exhelodrvr on July 13, 2012 at 10:02 PM

when the head hit the concrete the second time the gun was needed unless there is new evidence

Shoot your neighbors cat – not justified
Shoot after the second head bang – justified

I can understand intent to leave the country if that is true. The guy had been declared wanted dead or alive by race power groups and the powers that be pretended that was not a threat to Civil Rights

This case was a mistake for the Obama machine. He could not gain more black votes, and he lost non black votes from those who saw a rush to convict Zimmerman before the trial and intent to deny Zimmerman equal level of Civil Rights protections

IMHO the political misjudgement occurred because Zimmerman had a Germanic name and they didnt check skin color

entagor on July 13, 2012 at 11:32 PM

What part of Martin seeing Zimmerman’s gun and reaching for it only to lose the race to the gun when Zimmerman got to it first and shot Martin? That scenario is entirely believable aside from the fact that it is the scenario Zimmerman told the cops from day one.

{^_^}

herself on July 14, 2012 at 3:08 AM

Nice way for Hot Air to race bait this again, Ed says: “The presumed motive for the shooting, which defendant George Zimmerman claims was necessary to save his life, was racism.”

Racism and Profiling are not exclusive to each other. Reading the probable cause, it seems to lack the word “racism”.

Definition of Second Degree Murder
The crime of Second Degree Murder occurs when a person commits either:

Murder with a Depraved Mind or
Accomplice Felony Murder
Murder with a Depraved Mind
Murder with a Depraved Mind occurs when a person is killed, without any premeditated design, by an act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind showing no regard for human life.

Ed, read the law, there is NO need for Malice, only showing that there is no regard for the life you are taking.

Geez, Talk about Race Baiting.

damian1967 on July 14, 2012 at 4:51 AM

What part of Martin seeing Zimmerman’s gun and reaching for it only to lose the race to the gun when Zimmerman got to it first and shot Martin? That scenario is entirely believable aside from the fact that it is the scenario Zimmerman told the cops from day one.
 
herself on July 14, 2012 at 3:08 AM

 
Link, please.
 
Also, I’m not sure if you understand your “race to the gun” stance. This is not the movies. If a gun in close quarters started the altercation, that gun would be the main focus throughout. The untrained Trayvon wouldn’t have the time, focus, or opportunities to land punches and bash Zimmerman’s head on the pavement while both his hands were grasping and groping for the gun.
 
In your scenario all hands, Zimmerman’s and Martin’s, would be occupied trying to keep/gain control of the firearm.
 
Now fit Zimmerman’s broken nose and scalp lacerations into it, please.

rogerb on July 14, 2012 at 7:43 AM

What part of Martin seeing Zimmerman’s gun and reaching for it only to lose the race to the gun when Zimmerman got to it first and shot Martin? That scenario is entirely believable aside from the fact that it is the scenario Zimmerman told the cops from day one.
 
herself on July 14, 2012 at 3:08 AM

 
Re-reading this, it’s entirely possible I misunderstood you.
 
Are you suggesting Trayvon advanced on Zimmerman to steal his holstered (“got to it first”) weapon and eventually forced Zimmerman to shoot him in order to prevent the weapon being used against its owner?
 
Please clarify your position. Thanks.

rogerb on July 14, 2012 at 8:15 AM

Guys, this is a whole lot simpler that most of you are making it.

I’ve dealt with the “Trayvon Martins” of this world for a generation. I know their mindset, their sense of entitlement, their desire to dominate. It is in their hearts and souls. We could spot a Miami kid from a mile away when they came to our City. Often, trouble would circle around them like the dirt circling Charlie Brown’s friend Pigpen.

Events are simple.

1. Zimmmerman did what the police asked of a watch captain, spot crime, watch crime, report crime.

2. Martin had smoked weed, and probably was stashing it when he took off. That way he could beat Zimmerman and if the police got called, he wouldn’t have it on him. How do I know? I’ve dealt with that little trick before. Martin calls his GF who eggs him on. Nobody “disrespects” street thugs and gets away with it.

3. Martin, who was taller, younger, quicker and stronger than Zimmerman- and knew it- did not figure on Zimmerman being armed.

4. Martin circled back around to teach Zimmerman a lesson. He had every intention when he approached to attack Zimmerman no matter what Zimmerman was going to say or do. That is why it was so quick. Just look at the Baltimore beating and dozens of others on video to see the technique.

5. Zimmerman, blinded by a punch that broke his nose (you get hit hard there once and see how you can’t focus or breath), is on his back getting his head beaten into the cement.

6. At that point he is screaming for help but none is coming, so he does what any of you who want to survive would do. He reaches for his gun. Either Trayvon saw it and went for it to, or he saw it and realized he was fighting an armed man, and went for it. It doesn’t matter. Once Trayvon is beating Zimmerman’s head into the ground he’s crossed the line into deadly threat and can be stopped with deadly force. No matter how you want to paint it otherwise!!

Lastly, Zimmerman, by all accounts, allowed the police to investigate him over and over, not trying to hide anything. He was inconsolable according to friends and family because he too wonders if something else could have been done differently. Like I said in my post. This is a culmination of a number of factors and attitudes and events. Any one of them changed and Martin is alive. BUT the last event, the last attitude, the last action belongs solely to Martin. He could have acted like a civilized person and asked what Zimmerman was doing, explained his circumstances and both would have parted alive.

Martin chose to be a thug and died like one, as it happens all the time. The only reason Zimmerman is in this situation is because of timing. It is an election year, Obama and Holder need their “stacey Koon” arrest and prosecution. Zimmerman looked like he fit the bill at first, but now the wheels are coming off.

Sadly, it is too late for Zimmerman. He will always be under threat, all over politics and race.

http://truthandcommonsense.com/2012/07/14/holders-attempt-to-find-the-new-stacey-koons-case-was-a-swing-and-miss-zimmerman-wasnt-racist-after-all-but-pd-officers-might-have-been/

archer52 on July 14, 2012 at 11:44 AM

I guess the thread is dead.

rogerb on July 14, 2012 at 7:12 PM

new story coming out that GZ is being accused of molesting a relative for nearly 10 years. Drudge has it linked.

Dino V on July 16, 2012 at 5:32 PM

new story coming out that GZ is being accused of molesting a relative for nearly 10 years. Drudge has it linked.

Dino V on July 16, 2012 at 5:32 PM

A 7 year old grabbing his 6 year old cousin under a blanket while they and their families watch television. lol!

Blake on July 17, 2012 at 9:50 AM

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