Quotes of the day

posted at 10:24 pm on July 5, 2012 by Allahpundit

Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI), chair of the House Budget Committee–and potential running mate of Republican presidential hopeful Mitt Romney–told Breitbart News this week that the party’s leaders are “absolutely” committed to repealing Obamacare.

“It would have been nice for the Supreme Court to repeal it for us,” he said, “but it’s no harder today than it was the day before the decision. We win, we repeal. It’s just that simple.”

***

Earlier this week, according to WHAS-TV in Louisville, you predicted that it will be “a lot harder” to repeal President Obama’s health-care law. Why is that the case?

Well, I don’t know how they got that comment out of what I had to say. Let me give you my view, clearly and unambiguously. Repeal of Obamacare will be the first item up in the Senate if I am majority leader. If we have a president who will sign the bill, we will do everything we can to get it off the books, and we’ll be looking for every angle that could be pursued. There has been a lot of talk about reconciliation. The Chief Justice said this is a tax, and we take him at his word, so that certainly makes this eligible for reconciliation. But that may not be the only avenue that we pursue. Our goal will be to get it off the books. In my view, it is the single worst piece of legislation that has been passed in modern times, and I’ve said that on numerous occasions. It’s still my view. And just because the Supreme Court has decided it is constitutional doesn’t mean it’s the right thing to do…

On a final note, what’s your message to conservatives and tea-party activists who are suspicious of Republican leaders and their commitment to repeal?

Boy, I don’t know how they could be suspicious on this issue. Every single Republican in the House and Senate voted against Obamacare. I must have made 125 speeches about it on the floor. If there is any area where I don’t think conservatives of any stripe should be concerned, it would be this one. We’ve been clear and unambiguous about Obamacare from the beginning to the end — all of it. And I led the fight in the Senate, so I know what I’m talking about.

***

ObamaCare has been a war over the processing of insurance claims. It has been fought by institutional interests representing insurance, hospital and pharmaceutical firms. The doctor-patient relationship, or what used to be called “the practice of medicine,” has sunk beneath these waves.

Barack Obama, a savvy pol, understood from the start that rationalizing payments claims through the maw of these private and public bureaucracies was not what the average person thinks of as “health care.” To any normal person, health care means that when you or yours get really sick, the doctors and nurses who attend to you will push all else aside to give you medical help.

Thus, the constant Obama chorus that you can “keep your own doctor.” No one knows better than Barack Obama that his law sends the nation’s doctors on a voyage into an uncharted health-care world in which they are just along for the ride with their patients…

Mitt Romney needs a way to talk about health care in America. This isn’t just a fight over insurance companies. It’s about the people at the center of health care—doctors. The Affordable Care Act will damage that most crucial of all life relationships, that between an ill person and his physician.

***

The fact is that the incentives in our health-care system are all screwed up precisely because of government policies and programs. Medicare, the biggest player in our insurance system by far, is an arcane fee-for-service system that encourages volume over value and inflates (while shifting) costs. Medicaid, meanwhile, has a state-federal structure that makes cost-containment nearly impossible (by having state policymakers make spending decisions while the Feds pay at least half the cost in an open-ended way). And the tax exclusion for employer-provided coverage creates a huge incentive for high-premium insurance while shielding everyone involved from actual prices and costs. All the incentives point to cost inflation and away from outcome-based health economics, so we shouldn’t be surprised to have an inefficient system.

It is precisely conservative reformers who have proposed to change this, and it is precisely liberals who seek to avoid that change. Obamacare doubles down on all of these sources of inefficiency, and it does so on exactly Zakaria’s premise: that the chaos of the market would make things less efficient and only the centralized coordination of a benevolent bureaucracy can make the system work. It’s hard to believe we are still having this argument.

***

Via Gallup.

***

“I’ll work with anybody who wants to work with me to continue to improve our health care system and our health care laws, but the law I passed is here to stay,” Obama said at a campaign event in Ohio.

***



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An Ass masquerading as a President found a Doctor’s white lab coat which had been left out in the sun to dry. He put it on and spoke to his countrymen. All bowed, both men and women, and he was a proud Ass that day. In his delight he lifted up his voice and brayed incoherently and then every one knew him for what he really was.

Cheshire Cat on July 6, 2012 at 1:30 AM

It’s absurd to suggest that some armchair observer has the right to claim the mantle of capitalism from Steve Jobs or Bill Gates or Elon Musk. Those men define modern capitalism and are this country’s greatest examples of American exceptionalism.

bayam on July 6, 2012 at 1:26 AM

And yet you are an armchair observer making a claim. You have successfully refuted yourself.

Now go refute yourself.

SparkPlug on July 6, 2012 at 1:31 AM

I suppose if I listened to Rush or Glenn I’d have a better grasp of reality?

bayam on July 6, 2012 at 1:29 AM

Well, it sure couldn’t hurt, that’s for sure.

JPeterman on July 6, 2012 at 1:32 AM

bayam on July 6, 2012 at 1:26 AM

Modern day morons, one and all. They are industrious men who advocate bondage, for the moochers.

Schadenfreude on July 6, 2012 at 1:32 AM

bayam on July 6, 2012 at 12:35 AM

Celebrating uber capitalists for their uber capitalism, rather than their technological achievements isn’t *exactly* progressive. You seem to be one of those neo-liberals. You need to read No Logo by Naomi Klein. If you play by the right’s games, i.e. try and “out capitalism” them, you always lose. Just some friendly advice.

libfreeordie on July 6, 2012 at 1:33 AM

Why is Erick Erickson laying into Romney on Anderson Cooper right now?

libfreeordie on July 6, 2012 at 1:19 AM

PMS?

RasThavas on July 6, 2012 at 1:33 AM

RedCrow on July 6, 2012 at 1:18 AM

More people should debate than argue. That’s easy to say now cause we are both on the same side of the debate. I don’t think the answer is to stifle the Anthem unless if it isn’t sung with the strictest of protocol, These young men are our next generation. Sing it with Heart! Sing it with Hope! Their generation is the one we have to save..if we save our’s.

KCB on July 6, 2012 at 1:33 AM

SparkPlug on July 6, 2012 at 1:31 AM

Idiots can’t multi-task. He’d also be the first to argue that Obama doesn’t have to have military experience to be a good CiC. Leftists are not coherent.

Schadenfreude on July 6, 2012 at 1:34 AM

Cheshire Cat on July 6, 2012 at 1:30 AM

100..Very nice!..:)

PS..Good to see you posting!..:)

Dire Straits on July 6, 2012 at 1:34 AM

bayam and the ballad of the limousine liberal …

“My Favorite .00001% – But I Still Want To Tax Them Out Of Existence”

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on July 6, 2012 at 1:29 AM

Yes, you should be very upset when those idiotic liberals want to raise tax rates on the wealthy, which by and large means raising taxes on themselves. Did you notice that wealth is concentrated on the coasts where the evil liberals live?

Now, though, they are all over the government making sure nobody else can do as well as they did

Funny, I thought the recent Jobs Act and other legislation backed by tech companies has done more to help new entrepreneurs than any other recent act of our society at large. As investors, Google and Bezos pour millions into new startup companies. Do you have any factual basis for anything you say?

bayam on July 6, 2012 at 1:34 AM

Cheshire Cat on July 6, 2012 at 1:30 AM

+ 100..Very nice!..:)

PS..Good to see you posting!..:)

Dire Straits on July 6, 2012 at 1:34 AM

Fixed!..:)

Dire Straits on July 6, 2012 at 1:35 AM

The liberal bansters will ban everything and anything that they decide they don’t like, and especially when they can say something affects public healthcare costs. This is a great satirical call for Bloomberg to go further, banning beer and more: http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/hey-mayor-mike-ban-beer-article-1.1107314
One commenter, though, gave a lengthy defense of the soda ban, including (the false) “Coca cola has the world’s largest fleet of trucks…all shipping mass quantities of sugar to our doorsteps, to our children.” A great reply to this banster was:

Don’t like Coke? Don’t drink it and mind your own damn business, retard.

anotherJoe on July 6, 2012 at 1:36 AM

Yes, those liberals are all idiots with their pathetic genetic engineering and internet and technology. You and Joe the Plumber can re-create Google or SpaceX in your sleep. It must be tough to be surrounded by some many lesser minds.

bayam on July 6, 2012 at 1:11 AM

You would have a point if those liberals heading those companies ran their companies in the same way they want the rest of us to live. They run their companies as pure capitalists and want the rest of us to live as communists.

But then, I’m sure that irony of that escapes you.

AZfederalist on July 6, 2012 at 1:36 AM

libfreeordie on July 6, 2012 at 1:33 AM

Latest in the news, as we write – the U.N. wants a billionaires’ tax for “global social equity” or some such. It is pure theft by thuggery. I wonder how Jobs would take that since he didn’t even want to pay his U.S. taxes. Neither did any of the Kennedys. They all have trusts in the Cayman Isklands.

Schadenfreude on July 6, 2012 at 1:36 AM

It’s absurd to suggest that some armchair observer has the right to claim the mantle of capitalism from Steve Jobs or Bill Gates or Elon Musk. Those men define modern capitalism and are this country’s greatest examples of American exceptionalism.

bayam on July 6, 2012 at 1:26 AM

Why ? Because they give gobs of money to Hussein and his thugs ?
I’m pretty sure other great Americans who do not give protection money to Hussein are called all sorts of names by his paid and unpaid thugs ….

burrata on July 6, 2012 at 1:37 AM

JPeterman on July 6, 2012 at 1:17 AM

+ 100..I agree fully!..:)

Dire Straits on July 6, 2012 at 1:37 AM

That National Anthem was written on my hallowed ground, brother. I grew up there. Havre de Grace right up north was burned to ground in that war. That be my olde town. Tip of the bay.

Amazing place to grow up, history-wise.

wolly4321 on July 6, 2012 at 1:37 AM

KCB on July 6, 2012 at 1:33 AM

I’m with RedCrow on this. I’m really tired of listening to people try to make the National Anthem “their own”. Just because Ray Charles could do it doesn’t mean that every half-wit singer has the talent to customize the Anthem and still show it the proper respect rather than merely trying to attract attention to their own screeching. But I don’t blame the singers. I blame the venues that allow them to do this. If they can’t sing the song straight – and it’s a beautiful and difficult to do well as written – then they just shouldn’t be allowed to sing it in most of these instances.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on July 6, 2012 at 1:38 AM

libfreeordie on July 6, 2012 at 1:30 AM

Wait until the senior citizens find out that a huge chunk of their Medicare will be transferred to Medicaid. They will pitchfork you at the polls. The AARP and Obama won’t enlighten them but we will.

Schadenfreude on July 6, 2012 at 1:39 AM

Follow this to get/stay out.

Schadenfreude on July 6, 2012 at 1:40 AM

Latest in the news, as we write – the U.N. wants a billionaires’ tax for “global social equity” or some such.

Not sure who they think they’re kidding, they don’t have any power…

I wonder how Jobs would take that since he didn’t even want to pay his U.S. taxes. Neither did any of the Kennedys. They all have trusts in the Cayman Isklands.

Schadenfreude on July 6, 2012 at 1:36 AM

The Kennedys are basically Robber Barons same as Jobs. I don’t quite understand liberals hero worship of these individuals. But then again, I don’t understand a lot of liberals…

libfreeordie on July 6, 2012 at 1:42 AM

In his delight he lifted up his voice and brayed incoherently and then every one knew him for what he really was.

Cheshire Cat on July 6, 2012 at 1:30 AM

Heh. Pithy. (Also, Odumbo is, most definitely an ass.)

SparkPlug on July 6, 2012 at 1:31 AM
Lol! Touche! (Damn, bayam has to be a bit chapped by now!)

I don’t think the answer is to stifle the Anthem unless if it isn’t sung with the strictest of protocol, These young men are our next generation. Sing it with Heart! Sing it with Hope! Their generation is the one we have to save..if we save our’s.

KCB on July 6, 2012 at 1:33 AM

Yes. I said, “My druthers,” as in the Twain-ism. But, I DO NOT think the National Anthem should change.

And, actually…I’ve had the “dad mode” going on for several years. Maybe it’s beta-male of me to feel this way, but I want to have some offspring. Still, I can be glad that I don’t have any children, as I fear that America is done. If I had kids, they would be destined for a life of slavery under our current form/style of government. No one is doing anything to stop it, and so my sadness/emptiness has its silver lining.

RedCrow on July 6, 2012 at 1:42 AM

Yes, you should be very upset when those idiotic liberals want to raise tax rates on the wealthy, which by and large means raising taxes on themselves.

bayam on July 6, 2012 at 1:34 AM

LOL. No one stops them from donating as much as they want to the feral government. THey like to talk about raising taxes on themselves, but they never actually give any extra money. Warren Butthead is still almost a billion short on his Berkshire taxes. He liked to announce how he had given away “$30 billion to charity” a couple of years ago (his buddy Gates’ apthetic charity) but good ol’ Warren still shows up on the richest person list with all his money intact. What happened to that $30 billion? Did Warren lie and not give anything away, but only TALK about giving it away … some day? Yep. Typical leftist scum. You know the lowest form of charity is charity given publicly. Even lower is publicly telling everyone you’re giving charity when you AREN’T!!!

But … Warren just can’t find his checkbook to write Uncle Sam Stalin a check for a few bill … to start himself on his Buffet tax that he thinks he should be paying … which he could pay any day … but not today.

You’re pathetic. But kind of funny.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on July 6, 2012 at 1:43 AM

libfreeordie on July 6, 2012 at 1:30 AM

Wait until the senior citizens find out that a huge chunk of their Medicare will be transferred to Medicaid.

Is that what happens? I am pretty sure that medicare advantage was a program that nearly everyone agreed was a failure. Gutting funding for that program isn’t exactly cutting seniors in favor of medicaid.

libfreeordie on July 6, 2012 at 1:44 AM

The liberal bansters will ban everything and anything that they decide they don’t like, and especially when they can say something affects public healthcare costs.

Technology will fix healthcare while changing its cost equation to finally bring the system under control with better outcomes. It’s only a matter of time. The technology revolution isn’t going to stop at commerce and organizing the world’s information. Venture capital money is starting to pour into healthcare startups that are determined to change the game.

http://www.avado.com/newsroom/irrelevance-obamacare-supreme-court-ruling-politicians-bicker-while-physicians-innovate

bayam on July 6, 2012 at 1:45 AM

But then, I’m sure that irony of that escapes you.

AZfederalist on July 6, 2012 at 1:36 AM

Looters, with their Looter in Chief, keeping the stupid moochers in modern day plantations, for vote fodder. Period. It is a human travesty.

Schadenfreude on July 6, 2012 at 1:46 AM

But then, I’m sure that irony of that escapes you.

AZfederalist on July 6, 2012 at 1:36 AM

Good point!..I’m sure it does..Always!..:)

Dire Straits on July 6, 2012 at 1:47 AM

Latest in the news, as we write – the U.N. wants a billionaires’ tax for “global social equity” or some such.

And the UN isn’t screwing around. They want a WEALTH tax!!

The UN is a dangerous and stupid organization. The US should have left that fetid rat’s nest years and years ago. I blame Bush Sr. who empowered the UN in the wake of the USSR falling. That was about one of the dumbest moves in all of human history that threatens all of us.

Only a total idiot would even entertain the notion that an empowered, peerless, competitionless entity should even exist. Back during the Cold War, the UN was the joke it had to be to remain non-threatening, but since th efall of the Soviets, the UN has become a major, major danger and must be put to sleep.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on July 6, 2012 at 1:48 AM

If you play by the right’s games, i.e. try and “out capitalism” them, you always lose. Just some friendly advice.

libfreeordie on July 6, 2012 at 1:33 AM

Lol. Just caught this.

Do you wonder why that is? It’s because liberals are hostile to capitalism! (Yes–even while participating in the system and getting rich in it!)

libfreeordie, are you coming around to “our” way of thinking? Ya know, freedom, capitalism, and the like?

Free market capitalism made this country. It’s also the reason why we can post here, this morning…

Liberals hate capitalism. Supporting liberals is supporting a trip back to the stone ages.

RedCrow on July 6, 2012 at 1:48 AM

libfreeordie on July 6, 2012 at 1:44 AM

You must read the ObamaTax law carefully. Billions will be moved in 2014 from Medicare over to Medicaid.

The seniors are clueless that this is in the law. We’ll make sure they know by Nov. 6.

Schadenfreude on July 6, 2012 at 1:49 AM

And where might you be? All of our winters involve many feet of snow. I learned to cross country ski at 45 (51 now), so I could get out of the damn house. But, yeah, this past winter wasn’t TOO cold, all things considered.
sage0925 on July 5, 2012 at 11:45 PM

The hubby and I are in western PA. The weekend of Feb. 5th of 2010, we got over 25″ of snow, our “snowmageddon,” as the news referred to it. According to some reports, that kind of snowfall happens in our area about every 15 years, so we were due. :) We just dug ourselves out, then helped some elderly neighbors dig out, and laughed with some volunteer firemen who were also out helping to shovel the stuff out of the way.
I don’t have cross-country skis, but I’ve always wanted to learn how to do it, as I enjoy being outside exercising, no matter the weather. :)

PatriotGal2257 on July 6, 2012 at 1:49 AM

Is that what happens? I am pretty sure that medicare advantage was a program that nearly everyone agreed was a failure. Gutting funding for that program isn’t exactly cutting seniors in favor of medicaid.

libfreeordie on July 6, 2012 at 1:44 AM

$500 billion is being taken from Medicare to fund Obamacare. It had nothing to do with medicare advantage.

JPeterman on July 6, 2012 at 1:51 AM

I’m with RedCrow on this. I’m really tired of listening to people try to make the National Anthem “their own”. Just because Ray Charles could do it doesn’t mean that every half-wit singer has the talent to customize the Anthem and still show it the proper respect rather than merely trying to attract attention to their own screeching. But I don’t blame the singers. I blame the venues that allow them to do this. If they can’t sing the song straight – and it’s a beautiful and difficult to do well as written – then they just shouldn’t be allowed to sing it in most of these instances.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on July 6, 2012 at 1:38 AM

I hear ya! I’m getting ready to turn 50. I’m not a kid. This is a potentially influential band that loves their country. They have been linked on Hot Air by multiple posters and were probably stoked by it. You have your desire for the proper decorum, and I respect that. As for me and my house, I say Rock On and VOTE!!!

KCB on July 6, 2012 at 1:51 AM

RedCrow on July 6, 2012 at 1:48 AM

Looting leftists (don’t call them liberals because they are illiberal) love the Capitalist life-style. They just want the rest to live like moochers. It’s a human travesty for modern day bondage.

libfreeordie, when you focus on specifics and not on the leftist talking points, you can be good to talk to. In the past some leftists were fun to dialog with. If you drop the standard marching orders folks here can be very informative and quite nice. For my part I never try to convert anyone. I respect each’s freedom to say, do, vote and whatever too much. So, that should never be one of your worries. I’ve hardly ever noticed others trying such either.

Schadenfreude on July 6, 2012 at 1:54 AM

My current jam: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb6aIXBsGMQ

libfreeordie on July 6, 2012 at 1:55 AM

Free market capitalism made this country. It’s also the reason why we can post here, this morning…

Liberals hate capitalism. Supporting liberals is supporting a trip back to the stone ages.

RedCrow on July 6, 2012 at 1:48 AM

Then why is it that liberals are the ones who keep American capitalism alive through innovation and the creation of high growth companies? You may not fully understand just how much power Americans have over the global internet as a result of the dominant tech companies. It allows this country to project its values around the globe.

To many conservatives, capitalism seems to be the right to a non-union job at foreign automaker. That’s not the kind of American capitalism I believe in.

bayam on July 6, 2012 at 1:55 AM

Who’s gonna vote against Odumbo in November?
(Hint: Turn it up.)

RedCrow on July 6, 2012 at 1:55 AM

JPeterman on July 6, 2012 at 1:51 AM

Indeed, and it’s one of the top ‘secrets’ because the charlatans in the AARP are in Obama’s azz.

The seniors in FL in the majority are againt ObamaTax. Wait until they find out about this.

Schadenfreude on July 6, 2012 at 1:56 AM

bayam on July 6, 2012 at 1:55 AM

What a foolish person you are. Our side likes all Capitalism. You prefer only the leftist kind. Silly.

Leftists are never liberal nor progressive. They just stole the terms.

Schadenfreude on July 6, 2012 at 1:58 AM

libfreeordie, are you coming around to “our” way of thinking? Ya know, freedom, capitalism, and the like?

There are a lot of good things about capitalism. I have no desire for a communist revolution in this country. What I abhor is the worship of money as right. What I despise is the notion that if something isn’t immediately profitable it has no value to society or that if something is profitable or an individual makes a ton of money they automatically should be respected, honored, or even worshiped. I hate a culture where people define themselves and their self worth by the amount of money they can acquire, by the kind of objects they own, the kind of car they drive, the kind of home they live in. I hate excess for excesses sake. And most of all I can not stand the notion that if the state asks you to contribute some income that you are the equivalent of a slave under the lash.

So no, your version of “free market” and “freedom” is not anything that I will subscribe to. My point to bayam, in fact, was to avoid the trap of assuming that uber capitalists liberals are people we should admire because they’ve acheived success. Especially when they have done so through the exploitation of workers in other countries. You can enjoy the products, I certainly enjoy my iphone, but the Jobs-worship bugs me as much as the Beck-worship does.

libfreeordie on July 6, 2012 at 2:02 AM

I love that The Won says he is willing to work with anyone. Where was that attitude when this monstrous bill being written. No one, NO ONE, can believe that this convoluted, fill in the blank, revenue sucking piece of legislation was ever meant to do anything but suck power and money from the people and funnel it to his supporters and cronies. The only reason to make anything this torturous is to hide what Obama and the Left is planning to steal.

Cindy Munford on July 6, 2012 at 2:02 AM

You have your desire for the proper decorum, and I respect that. As for me and my house, I say Rock On and VOTE!!!

KCB on July 6, 2012 at 1:51 AM

No problem. It’s not a huge issue with me. Just a pet peeve, at times. I see nothing wrong with it done differently every so often, but when it’s never sung straight anymore it just gets a bit annoying.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on July 6, 2012 at 2:04 AM

libfreeordie on July 6, 2012 at 1:44 AM

Unintended consequences.

a capella on July 6, 2012 at 2:04 AM

libfreeordie, when you focus on specifics and not on the leftist talking points, you can be good to talk to.

Its true, I’m quite delightful ;)

For my part I never try to convert anyone.

Considering your usual debate tactic is the digital equivalent of throwing lye in the face, there’s no need to worry about that. I kid, I kid, Primordial is more the lye throwing type. But you can be quite salty. :)

libfreeordie on July 6, 2012 at 2:05 AM

Technology will fix healthcare while changing its cost equation to finally bring the system under control with better outcomes. It’s only a matter of time. The technology revolution isn’t going to stop at commerce and organizing the world’s information. Venture capital money is starting to pour into healthcare startups that are determined to change the game.

http://www.avado.com/newsroom/irrelevance-obamacare-supreme-court-ruling-politicians-bicker-while-physicians-innovate

bayam on July 6, 2012 at 1:45 AM

Yes. Companies will innovate and discover all sorts of miracles for us out of the goodness of their hearts, as they’ve been doing since time immemorial. (Is that what you think, bayam?)

Then why is it that liberals are the ones who keep American capitalism alive through innovation and the creation of high growth companies? You may not fully understand just how much power Americans have over the global internet as a result of the dominant tech companies. It allows this country to project its values around the globe.

To many conservatives, capitalism seems to be the right to a non-union job at foreign automaker. That’s not the kind of American capitalism I believe in.

bayam on July 6, 2012 at 1:55 AM

This is ridiculous! I already stated that innovators are of all political flavors. ALL OF THEM innovate because they want to get rich! NOT help their fellow man. (Adam Smith, anyone?)

It is liberal policy that stifles innovation, usually through harsh and unfair taxation and regulation. It is conservative policy that encourages innovation, usually through free market policy.

Perhaps you’re (trying) to have fun with me because you think I don’t know what I’m talking about. But, you are the one who has been proved to be wrong historically. It is you who doesn’t understand.

You’re only helping my cause.

RedCrow on July 6, 2012 at 2:08 AM

libfreeordie on July 6, 2012 at 2:02 AM

All individual liberty flows from private property rights. If you want to be free, you have to have a government and people who cherish the notion of private ownership, which is what the US was founded on – life, liberty and property.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on July 6, 2012 at 2:08 AM

More unintended consequences. Or,…perhaps not?

a capella on July 6, 2012 at 2:11 AM

All individual liberty flows from private property rights. If you want to be free, you have to have a government and people who cherish the notion of private ownership, which is what the US was founded on – life, liberty and property.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on July 6, 2012 at 2:08 AM

Jeez, talk about talking points. Why do we have to “cherish” the notion of private ownership. The line between that and “cherishing” objects is incredibly thin and troubling. I don’t “cherish” a lot of things that I think people have a right to. I also don’t hate private property, again, I hate a culture that worships ownership. It leads to some very ugly behavior.

libfreeordie on July 6, 2012 at 2:11 AM

And most of all I can not stand the notion that if the state asks you to contribute some income that you are the equivalent of a slave under the lash.

libfreeordie on July 6, 2012 at 2:02 AM

You take it literally, which is your problem. It has nothing to do with the slavery of then, or with physical enslavement. It’s the meaning of keeping people, millions of them, uneducated, underdeveloped, uninformed, fooled, and in ‘bondage’, for votes only.

Freedom is soooo hard but it is wonderful. All those people deserve the same. The leftist method of the last 60 years doesn’t provide them freedom and liberty, but from diapers to Depends dependency. If you’d stop to analyze you’d fully agree.

Our side is the first to help people if they need help, but not via handouts, unless they are truly needy.

What your side calls “social justice” is neither. It is theft by thuggery and keeps the people on the dole dependent.

Schadenfreude on July 6, 2012 at 2:12 AM

The moment the idea is admitted into society, that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence. If “Thou shalt not covet,” and “Thou shalt not steal,” were not commandments of Heaven, they must be made inviolable precepts in every society, before it can be civilized or made free. — John Adams

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on July 6, 2012 at 2:12 AM

Schadenfreude on July 6, 2012 at 1:54 AM

Yeah, okay–that’s the Friedman point. (I understand it, but I speak in the American vernacular. The use of the word “liberals” to mean “freedom-lovers” is only available in Europe, these days.)

BTW, I’ll repeat the current state of affairs that “liberals” are shunning their self-proclaimed appellation because too many Americans hear the word and cringe!

They want to be known as “progressives”, now. Hey–progress is good, right? (Wait a few years.)

RedCrow on July 6, 2012 at 2:14 AM

Why do we have to “cherish” the notion of private ownership.

Because it is a necessary condition for individual liberty to exist.

The line between that and “cherishing” objects is incredibly thin and troubling. I don’t “cherish” a lot of things that I think people have a right to. I also don’t hate private property, again, I hate a culture that worships ownership. It leads to some very ugly behavior.

libfreeordie on July 6, 2012 at 2:11 AM

Each individual has the right to organize his life as he sees fit, meaning that he can pursue money above all if he wants, he can pursue knowledge above all if he wants and you can pursue whatever you think is most important in life. That is liberty. You don’t really seem to like that.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on July 6, 2012 at 2:15 AM

Freedom is soooo hard but it is wonderful. All those people deserve the same. The leftist method of the last 60 years doesn’t provide them freedom and liberty, but from diapers to Depends dependency. If you’d stop to analyze you’d fully agree.

Here we can’t agree. The conservative interpretation of the history of public policy is based on so many massive misunderstandings and faulty assumptions. Its too late to understand where to begin. I’d begin by directing you to a book by Ira Katznelson called “When Affirmative Action Was White.” The people you imagine as not on welfare actually are just as dependent and have been historically.

libfreeordie on July 6, 2012 at 2:16 AM

libfreeordie on July 6, 2012 at 2:11 AM

To not be too materialistic is not a bad trait. But you must read more on private property, how it shaped the US… such as owning land and real estate, for two examples. It is part of being free and secure. Plus, the privacy right on such property is absolutely essential to said freedom and security.

Schadenfreude on July 6, 2012 at 2:17 AM

My current jam
libfreeordie on July 6, 2012 at 1:55 AM

I thought you meant this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyKN8OzzO8s&feature=related

bayview on July 6, 2012 at 2:18 AM

Each individual has the right to organize his life as he sees fit,

Yes.

meaning that he can pursue money above all if he wants, he can pursue knowledge above all if he wants and you can pursue whatever you think is most important in life. That is liberty. You don’t really seem to like that.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on July 6, 2012 at 2:15 AM

Under this way of being is there any means to acquire wealth that is immoral?

libfreeordie on July 6, 2012 at 2:18 AM

“Hope and Change” “Yes We Can” “Forward” and now… “Betting On America”

You have to hand it to team Obama. They have a real knack for coming up with slogans that mean absolutely nothing.

Hope for what, change to what, precisely? Whatever it was… it engendered some whoppers of excuses: “change is hard” and “Change takes time” after 3 1/2 years.

Yes we can… WHAT, precisely, can we?

Forward. No direction, no leadership… just forward. Off a cliff, perhaps? Or straight to mediocrity… ‘just one nation among many.’

Betting on America. I think this is my favorite. Classic Obama to imply that leadership is OUR responsibility…the heavy lifting of climbing out of the hole he’s dug for us is our job… and what a great guy to say he’s betting that we can do it, too!

thatsafactjack on July 6, 2012 at 2:19 AM

I love that The Won says he is willing to work with anyone. Where was that attitude when this monstrous bill being written. No one, NO ONE, can believe that this convoluted, fill in the blank, revenue sucking piece of legislation was ever meant to do anything but suck power and money from the people and funnel it to his supporters and cronies. The only reason to make anything this torturous is to hide what Obama and the Left is planning to steal.

Cindy Munford on July 6, 2012 at 2:02 AM

Awesome post, the last line should be etched in stone.

SparkPlug on July 6, 2012 at 2:20 AM

To not be too materialistic is not a bad trait. But you must read more on private property, how it shaped the US… such as owning land and real estate, for two examples.

And slaves. It is sort of interesting that you don’t mention the critical importance of slave labor to the fortunes of the founding generation…why is that?

libfreeordie on July 6, 2012 at 2:20 AM

libfreeordie on July 6, 2012 at 2:16 AM

No Affirmative Action. The land provides all equal opportunities, just not equal outcomes. It’s a most marvelous freedom. You may risk and so may all others. The outcome is individual.

To be continued another time. Internalize this, though. Nothing beats individuality. Never, ever aim to be the same with anyone else. If you look up, you become envious; if you look down you become snotty. Cherish youself the way you are and be grateful.

Take good care and have a great night.

Schadenfreude on July 6, 2012 at 2:21 AM

What I despise is the notion that if something isn’t immediately profitable it has no value to society or that if something is profitable or an individual makes a ton of money they automatically should be respected, honored, or even worshiped.

libfreeordie on July 6, 2012 at 2:02 AM

Well, the best way to provide for ANYONE is to offer a profit.

Through history, people have seen problems and set themselves to come up with a solution. Many, many people found solutions that worked for those affected and found no profit. Many, many people got incredibly rich. (Some failed miserably.)

The key is the stimulus that spurred the work to begin! That stimulus was (almost always) GREED.

It’s why capitalism works best–it doesn’t try to defeat man’s base instinct. Rather it feeds on it.

BTW, that’s why you own a cell phone, today. It’s why you own a car. It’s why…etc…

RedCrow on July 6, 2012 at 2:24 AM

libfreeordie on July 6, 2012 at 2:20 AM

Because I never owned any. They were owned all over the world, historically. I hate that it was so. I hate that it was so in the U.S. I hate that Hitler existed. However, one must move on.

There is racism in the U.S. You won’t find it with me. I respect people the way they are and don’t care what race they are and ask only that they accept my idiosyncracies, or not. They are free to do either.

If you’re going to be hung up on it you can not move forward. The US has apologized and atoned, fought a dire war to free the slaves. In no country is there a greater successful melting pot. No place. None.

Schadenfreude on July 6, 2012 at 2:25 AM

libfreeordie on July 6, 2012 at 2:11 AM

Ridiculous. Thank the (conservative) founders for your freedom–otherwise, you’d be a slave.

RedCrow on July 6, 2012 at 2:26 AM

Under this way of being is there any means to acquire wealth that is immoral?

libfreeordie on July 6, 2012 at 2:18 AM

Sure, but that has nothing to do with our discussion. We are talking about private property rights and individual liberty, not law-breaking and personally immoral acts. If someone is immoral (aside from breaking the law) that is a different issue that has nothing to do with the importance of private property rights.

BTW, who do you think built all the hospitals and medical care that the feral government is now deciding only it has the power to control? There’s a reason hospitals are all named “Mt. Sinai” or “St. Whomever of Wherever”. They weren’t built by the government. Only after the whole system was developed and built and functioning dos the government come in and lay claim to control of it. I will admit, though, that the government did have a great deal of input into health care, as the exigencies of war tended to advance health care more than anything. The Civil War marked a turning point in health care. But, what happens in war and with defense expenditures is almost entirely unrelated to silly and wasteful government spending which has rarely done much of anything, but at a very,very,very high cost.

You know, the Soviet Union never lacked brilliant people. They had many geniuses. They lacked the structure in society that allowed for the development, construction and maintenance of industries. The Soviets had tons of food. They just couldn’t get it to market before most of it went rotten. That is how governments do things, even with the best of intentions, which one should never ascribe to government – an idea that is at the very foundation of our COnstitutional Republic.

Central planning and control forces stagnation on whatever falls within its grasp. This is a simple lesson of history that has been repeated over and over and that one should know by now.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on July 6, 2012 at 2:27 AM

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on July 6, 2012 at 2:12 AM

That reminds me. A few excerpts:

Frédéric Bastiat: The Law

…The law is the organization of the natural right of lawful defense. It is the substitution of a common force for individual forces. And this common force is to do only what the individual forces have a natural and lawful right to do: to protect persons, liberties, and properties; to maintain the right of each, and to cause justice to reign over us all….

It is impossible to introduce into society a greater change and a greater evil than this: the conversion of the law into an instrument of plunder.

…it erases from everyone’s conscience the distinction between justice and injustice.

No society can exist unless the laws are respected to a certain degree. The safest way to make laws respected is to make them respectable. When law and morality contradict each other, the citizen has the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense or losing his respect for the law. These two evils are of equal consequence, and it would be difficult for a person to choose between them.

The nature of law is to maintain justice. This is so much the case that, in the minds of the people, law and justice are one and the same thing. There is in all of us a strong disposition to believe that anything lawful is also legitimate. This belief is so widespread that many persons have erroneously held that things are “just” because law makes them so. Thus, in order to make plunder appear just and sacred to many consciences, it is only necessary for the law to decree and sanction it. Slavery, restrictions, and monopoly find defenders not only among those who profit from them but also among those who suffer from them.

INC on July 6, 2012 at 2:29 AM

And slaves. It is sort of interesting that you don’t mention the critical importance of slave labor to the fortunes of the founding generation…why is that?

libfreeordie on July 6, 2012 at 2:20 AM

The real agenda emerges.

a capella on July 6, 2012 at 2:30 AM

libfreeordie on July 6, 2012 at 2:11 AM

Have to have one more “crack” ’cause libfree seems on the verge of (maybe) getting it.(???)

Property rights are soooo important for the simple fact that the government can’t take them away!!!!!!

Do you know about eminent domain, and the controversies brought up in the last twenty years? (Search “kelo decision” if you’re unclear.)

RedCrow on July 6, 2012 at 2:31 AM

thatsafactjack on July 6, 2012 at 2:19 AM

At least he provides people with a bit of entertainment.

http://twitchy.com/2012/07/05/bettingonamerica-hijack-inevitable-mocking-of-obamas-bus-tour-slogan-begins/

Cindy Munford on July 6, 2012 at 2:32 AM

Yes. Companies will innovate and discover all sorts of miracles for us out of the goodness of their hearts, as they’ve been doing since time immemorial. (Is that what you think, bayam?)

Read a book about the great entrepreneurs, and you’ll see that most stay in the game far beyond their capacity or interest in wealth accumulation. It’s about the money but it’s also about much more than the money.

It is liberal policy that stifles innovation, usually through harsh and unfair taxation and regulation. It is conservative policy that encourages innovation, usually through free market policy.

I would only observe that the people doing most of the innovation are typically doing the very least whining, while those with the very least experience innovating whine the most. It’s odd how that works out.

The leftist method of the last 60 years doesn’t provide them freedom and liberty, but from diapers to Depends dependency.

You’re saying that every achievement of the last 60 years was in vain? The greatest generation built the most but it also sacrificed the most. Not only in war but in peace- today’s public university system has become the envy of the world only because that generation subjected itself to higher taxes than today’s self-described victims of income tax. In fact, if not for ‘free trade’ with China that has tapped so many American jobs and significant wealth, the US might find itself less affected by the changing demographics that are driving up entitlement spending.

bayam on July 6, 2012 at 2:33 AM

a capella on July 6, 2012 at 2:22 AM

Your link doesn’t work. I think this will fix it, no?

(Check your links manually through the Preview before you hit post!)

RedCrow on July 6, 2012 at 2:34 AM

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on July 6, 2012 at 2:27 AM

That’s true about the hospitals.

At a large town we lived in there was a Catholic hospital, an Episcopalian hospital, a Baptist hospital and a Methodist hospital; and of course, you didn’t have to be of a particular persuasion to be admitted to one. I don’t recall that the Presbyterians were represented.

I think there was only one hospital, the newest at the time, that was a secular corporation.

INC on July 6, 2012 at 2:34 AM

Ridiculous. Thank the (conservative) founders for your freedom–otherwise, you’d be a slave.

RedCrow on July 6, 2012 at 2:26 AM

Yes, those Ivy League educated conservatives- the ones who mistrusted the ‘commoners’ and generally anyone without a comparable education in the liberal arts, unless they read Latin fluently of course.

The way Tea Parties cling to a completely mythological version of the founding fathers as a form of validation is really quite sad.

bayam on July 6, 2012 at 2:37 AM

a capella on July 6, 2012 at 2:30 AM

I find it interesting that the Left never wants to discuss today’s slavery in the form of hazy promises to illegal aliens to keep the flow of cheap labor unabated.

Cindy Munford on July 6, 2012 at 2:39 AM

Cindy Munford:
Thanks for that link. I hadn’t seen those tweets. They really are funny. I like “Betting on America with someone else’s money”. It harks right back to his personal ATM… Hollywood…they love to use “Other People’s Money”, too.

thatsafactjack on July 6, 2012 at 2:40 AM

INC on July 6, 2012 at 2:29 AM

Very nice excerpt. Beautiful and direct.

The connection between property and freedom has long been known. As Adams pointed out, it has been at the foundation of Judaism for 4000 years.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on July 6, 2012 at 2:43 AM

bayam on July 6, 2012 at 2:33 AM

Well, now I’m pretty sure that you are (or hope to be) a paid democrat flack (flake?). If so, I could only (honestly) tell your over-lords that you’re not very good at this.

I would only observe that the people doing most of the innovation are typically doing the very least whining, while those with the very least experience innovating whine the most.

Hilarious!!

today’s public university system has become the envy of the world only because that generation subjected itself to higher taxes than today’s self-described victims of income tax.

So, so funny!

You’re kinda stupid, aren’t you?
BYE, Dummy!

RedCrow on July 6, 2012 at 2:43 AM

The way Tea Parties cling to a completely mythological version of the founding fathers as a form of validation is really quite sad.

bayam on July 6, 2012 at 2:37 AM

Utterly dumb.

RedCrow on July 6, 2012 at 2:44 AM

bayam on July 6, 2012 at 2:37 AM

There is a huge difference in the education levels of the average man at our founding and now. At least the Founders worked to establish a public education system to right the discrepancy. While your side does its best to aspire to mediocrity, dependency and deferring to our “betters”.

Cindy Munford on July 6, 2012 at 2:45 AM

Cindy Munford:
EXCELLENT point about the left and slavery relating to their blatant and cynical manipulation of illegal aliens. I might add trying to put so many people on the dole in order to try and secure their vote through fear of losing those benefits. I think trying to consign people to a lifetime of poverty and reliance on the largess of the government and then continually threatening those benefits every time there’s an election is a form of slavery,and tyranny, too.

thatsafactjack on July 6, 2012 at 2:47 AM

And slaves. It is sort of interesting that you don’t mention the critical importance of slave labor to the fortunes of the founding generation…why is that?

libfreeordie on July 6, 2012 at 2:20 AM

Most of the founding fathers (at least) disliked slavery. They thought that it was a dying practice. Then along came “King Cotton”, and their plans were dashed.

The economy of the south was so based on cotton that it had to go to war.

RedCrow on July 6, 2012 at 2:50 AM

thatsafactjack on July 6, 2012 at 2:40 AM

I always get tickled when The Won wants to talk about Gov. Romney’s Bain years. Why he thinks he comes off better at “investing” is a hoot, especially when you consider that you start with the difference of willing investors and money confiscated from unknowing taxpayers.

Cindy Munford on July 6, 2012 at 2:52 AM

At least the Founders worked to establish a public education system to right the discrepancy. While your side does its best to aspire to mediocrity, dependency and deferring to our “betters”.

Yes, Apple, SpaceX and Google aspire to mediocrity. Good call.

You may read about the history of the public university system and its unprecedented expansion in the decades after WWII.

No society ever achieved greatness by relying on Joe the Plumber- and the founding fathers were the most vocal advocates of keeping power in the hands of the ‘elite’.

bayam on July 6, 2012 at 2:52 AM

thatsafactjack on July 6, 2012 at 2:47 AM

Absolutely!

Cindy Munford on July 6, 2012 at 2:54 AM

I find it interesting that the Left never wants to discuss today’s slavery in the form of hazy promises to illegal aliens to keep the flow of cheap labor unabated.

Cindy Munford on July 6, 2012 at 2:39 AM

Yeah. When the only folks who’ll vote for you are those whom you have deportation power over…

RedCrow on July 6, 2012 at 2:54 AM

bayam on July 6, 2012 at 2:52 AM

Only because the elite were the only educated people at the time. Are you suggesting that they didn’t expect the entire population to become educated and to be a more intricate part of governing. For the People, By the People! As for the companies you list, how many green card holders do they have to employ when our own population is fast becoming too illiterate to take advantage of your highly touted colleges and universities. And speaking of said colleges and universities, how long are they going to remain envied when they promote stupid course studies that have no practical use in the real world.

Cindy Munford on July 6, 2012 at 3:02 AM

And speaking of said colleges and universities, how long are they going to remain envied when they promote stupid course studies that have no practical use in the real world.

Cindy Munford on July 6, 2012 at 3:02 AM

This. Thankfully, it’s becoming to be a more known characteristic of our colleges and universities.

RedCrow on July 6, 2012 at 3:06 AM

Can’t sleep tonight, keep trying but it is 79 degrees in my house. I feel the humidity through the walls…

OmahaConservative on July 6, 2012 at 3:08 AM

Hmmmm, do I want to watch Red Eye or Eddie and the Cruisers?

Cindy Munford on July 6, 2012 at 3:09 AM

OmahaConservative on July 6, 2012 at 3:08 AM

Dampen a dish towel and put it around your neck area.

Cindy Munford on July 6, 2012 at 3:10 AM

Thanks, I’ll try that. Do I take it to bed? How are the pups?

OmahaConservative on July 6, 2012 at 3:11 AM

Can’t sleep tonight, keep trying but it is 79 degrees in my house. I feel the humidity through the walls…

OmahaConservative on July 6, 2012 at 3:08 AM

Yeah, I’m in MI and feel the humidity very well. (I think it’s only low 80′s right now–but sticky.)

A good try is to douse yourself with cold water, then go to bed. Worked for me many times.

RedCrow on July 6, 2012 at 3:11 AM

This has to be the thickest and most oppressive summer inOmaha since I left San Diego in Sept. 2005…

OmahaConservative on July 6, 2012 at 3:15 AM

The grass has turned brown overnight and there are big cracks in the earth. Pray for rain, we need it across the country. We are officially in a drought…

OmahaConservative on July 6, 2012 at 3:18 AM

Omaha Conservative:
Do you have an ice pack or a hot water bottle in the house? Either fill it with crushed ice and take it to bed with you, press against the neck, or a neat trick is to fill it with crushed ice and rubbing alcohol and it will stay cooler longer and when you freeze it again it stays slushy, not hard as a rock. Alternative for ice pack it can also be frozen peas or corn ( anything not too lumpy that will conform to your body contours). I recommend wrapping a couple of layers of paper towel around the bag to stay cool, but dry. I used to slip a sealed slushy ice pack under my pillow case.

thatsafactjack on July 6, 2012 at 3:27 AM

RedCrow on July 6, 2012 at 12:59 AM

Happy to oblige: Good luck!

OldEnglish on July 6, 2012 at 3:37 AM

thatsafactjack on July 6, 2012 at 3:27 AM

I’ll try that, Thanks…

OmahaConservative on July 6, 2012 at 3:38 AM

RedCrow on July 6, 2012 at 12:59 AM

Happy to oblige: Good luck!

OldEnglish on July 6, 2012 at 3:37 AM

Edit: still can’t link! therefore: http://www.immi.gov.au/

OldEnglish on July 6, 2012 at 3:41 AM

I hate a culture that worships ownership. It leads to some very ugly behavior.

libfreeordie

Without a culture of ownership, who would you libs steal from?

xblade on July 6, 2012 at 3:56 AM

Are you suggesting that they didn’t expect the entire population to become educated and to be a more intricate part of governing

As long as they couldn’t vote directly for some public offices, such as members of the Senate.

And speaking of said colleges and universities, how long are they going to remain envied when they promote stupid course studies that have no practical use in the real world.

Cindy Munford on July 6, 2012 at 3:02 AM

This. Thankfully, it’s becoming to be a more known characteristic of our colleges and universities.

Sounds like right wing radio talk which, surprisingly, is often based on more anecdotal evidence than facts.
Unfortunately, not that many American kids want to study science and engineering- and that has nothing to do with class offerings.

bayam on July 6, 2012 at 3:56 AM

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