How big a deal is the Romney campaign’s tax/penalty flip-flopping?

posted at 8:01 pm on July 5, 2012 by Allahpundit

Does anyone seriously care about this? I know we’ve written a bunch of posts about it — it’s the political story du jour so we’re almost obliged — but I can’t believe there’s a single voter outside the chattering class that’s following it. Think of all the things a voter has to know just to be able to keep up:

1. Massachusetts has universal health insurance.
2. The linchpin of that insurance program is a mandate requiring people to buy coverage.
3. The program was signed into law by Mitt Romney.
4. ObamaCare is based on Massachusetts’s program.
5. States can pass mandates requiring citizens to purchase things but it’s not clear whether the federal government can do so under the Constitution.
6. The Supreme Court recently ruled that the federal government can impose mandates pursuant to its tax power but not pursuant to its power over interstate commerce.
7. Romney’s campaign spokesman, Eric Fehrnstrom, said after the Court’s decision that he believes the mandate is not a tax.
8. Mitt Romney contradicted Fehrnstrom by saying that if the Supreme Court thinks the mandate’s a tax, then it should be regarded as a tax — even if he personally disagrees with that interpretation.

How many of those facts do you think the average low-information swing voter — the group that’s going to decide this election — is aware of? One? Maybe two? Bear in mind, despite the Court ruling having been front page on every newspaper in America last week, fully 45 percent of adults said afterwards that they either didn’t know how the Court had ruled or thought that they had struck down most of ObamaCare. That’s the level of ignorance we’re dealing with here. And yet we’re now seeing dopey navel-gazing in the papers and grumbling among some prominent conservatives about whether Romney should shake up his campaign staff, even though the guy’s within three points in the poll of polls. I can accept this being a one-day story, if only because it’s the slowest week of the summer and we need something to kvetch about it. But we’re now on day four, full in the knowledge that the voters whom Mitt needs to win the election are in a de facto coma when it comes to this subject. C’mon.

Besides, if you think this is a big deal and simply must have someone to blame, why blame Romney’s staff instead of the candidate himself? They’re not the ones who made RomneyCare happen. Philip Klein:

In April 2010, just weeks after the national health care law passed, I warned that if Republicans nominated Romney in 2012, it could kill the effort to repeal Obamacare, precisely because he wouldn’t be able to credibly attack Obama on health care. It’s something that I emphasized repeatedly during the primaries and discussed in my ebook on the Romney nomination. Had Republicans nominated any other GOP candidate, right now they’d be sitting back and watching Obama and his surrogates squirm in trying to explain why the mandate was a tax for legal purposes but still didn’t violate his middle class tax pledge. Instead, Romney’s struggles to reconcile the irreconcilable are complicating things…

It’s inevitable that any Republican holding or seeking office who attacks Obamacare’s mandate as a tax will be asked whether the Massachusetts mandate signed by their own nominee is also a tax. They shouldn’t feel the need to defend Romney’s untenable position, or to squirm uncomfortably when asked. Republicans can agree with Romney on repeal without having to make excuses for what he did in Massachusetts. A good answer would be something along the lines of this: “You never find a candidate who you’re going to agree with 100 percent of the time. I disagree with mandates at both the federal and state level and don’t support the Massachusetts health care law. But I do agree with Romney that Obamacare is a disastrous law for all 50 states and that it needs to be repealed. And that’s why I support him.”

This is all going to come to a head three months from now when Obama and Romney get into a squabble at one of the debates over one guy’s mandate versus the other guy’s mandate, and the press will wet itself over whether the exchange is a gamechanger and how Obama proved he was a fightin’ Democrat after all by putting Romney on the defensive and whether Romney should have hired a different debate coach, blah blah blah blah blah. And meanwhile, 80 percent of the people watching it at home will be thinking “What are they arguing about now?

Speaking of taxes and penalties, here’s Romney suggesting that Roberts is no longer his model for a Supreme Court nominee. Exit question: Anyone think that Paul Clement won’t be nominated at the first available vacancy if Romney wins?


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changer1701 on July 5, 2012 at 9:50 PM

The regime has turned the site…………….

ALL HAIL THE MESSIAH!!!!!

dmann on July 5, 2012 at 9:54 PM

For Chrisake, the entire Republican party took this position and people like you were complaining when Romney did not jump on board and say it was a tax immediately…then when he does say he accepts the Court’s decision and it is a tax, you still complain.

You are impossible.

Terrye on July 5, 2012 at 9:37 PM

Because it proves once again Romney is the classic flip flopper. He will say anything to get elected and has no core.

Thus you have no idea how he will actually govern. If you go by his record though he will govern much like Obama.

NoMittObama 2012

Get rid of Establishment Republicans at all levels.

Steveangell on July 5, 2012 at 9:43 PM

Tell me something, are you both on drugs?…so this is the deal..Roberts makes this decision saying that Obamacare is Constitutional and that it is a tax…and conservatives like Scalia beg to differ. Romney, like most Republicans has sided with the conservatives…however, once the decision is made Republicans see the potential in going after the tax angle, even if it means accepting the decision. Romney sticks to his original position, which was of course the same position of other Republicans {before the decision}.

But that bothers the people who have flipped because they want him to say that it is a tax after all..he does that by saying that while he accepts the Court’s decision, he still agrees with the dissenters..I would think most people feel that way.

And you say it proves he is a flip flopper. Of course he is a flip flopper and not a team player if he does not say that.

And yet you do not see the sheer stupidity of your position. You have created a no win situation for Romney here. No matter what he does you claim he is flip flopping.

And the while, you are flip flopping yourselves and too dense to see it. Unbelievable.

Terrye on July 5, 2012 at 9:54 PM

Ah, now I understand! You don’t really believe that Romney is a progressive. You are just trolling all the Romney threads to get a response, just like good old csdeven was trolling the Palin threads.

Well, then we can just skip your comments.

Gelsomina on July 5, 2012 at 9:51 PM

I don’t need to believe he is. He’s called himself progressive on more than one occasion, including to a television reporter back in ’02! So was he lying then? Is he lying now? Or am I just supposed to accept the fact that “people change?” You’d better remember that whole “people change” thing the next time you dig up one of my posts from 2+ years ago and accuse me of “hypocrisy.”

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 9:55 PM

Ah, now I understand! You don’t really believe that Romney is a progressive. You are just trolling all the Romney threads to get a response, just like good old csdeven was trolling the Palin threads.

Well, then we can just skip your comments.

Gelsomina on July 5, 2012 at 9:51 PM

Not even close….

csdeven attacked people personally, that’s all he did.

He could never argue a position.

idesign on July 5, 2012 at 9:57 PM

The regime has turned the site…………….

ALL HAIL THE MESSIAH!!!!!

dmann on July 5, 2012 at 9:54 PM

Care to actually answer the question, or is that all you got?

changer1701 on July 5, 2012 at 9:57 PM

Anyhoo, anytime yo wanna actually answe the question rather than evade, lemme know.

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 9:54 PM

Maybe when you learn to spell and have something worth noticing, I will.

Until then, you are just another nutball craving attention.

And worthy only of derision when things are slow.

cozmo on July 5, 2012 at 9:58 PM

Really, what is the point in constantly dumping on him here? Are you trying to convince others NOT to vote for him? You’re not telling anyone stuff we didn’t already know…it’s almost like you and others can’t stand the fact we’ve decided the alternative is worse. You’re not exactly making friends and influencing people either, just coming across as bitter and petulant.

changer1701 on July 5, 2012 at 9:50 PM

Ah, now I understand! You don’t really believe that Romney is a progressive. You are just trolling all the Romney threads to get a response, just like good old csdeven was trolling the Palin threads.

Well, then we can just skip your comments.

Gelsomina on July 5, 2012 at 9:51 PM

Precisely my points, voiced earlier. Thank you both.

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 9:59 PM

Look for me to be on here again and again, rebutting your posts, as the only way to advance truth is to expose the paid liars. Be well and rest up. You’re gonna need it! LOL!

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 9:19 PM

Oooooooh….the big bad forum vet is going to follow you around and call you O-bot…

ddrintn on July 5, 2012 at 9:59 PM

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 9:19 PM

Oooooooh….the big bad forum vet is going to follow you around and call you O-bot…

ddrintn on July 5, 2012 at 9:59 PM

Proof enough to me that some people who are nominally Republicans are more than happy to censor what some of the rest of us say and how we say it. Yeah, that’s really “conservative” of you, rombots.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 10:01 PM

Why are we wondering when obvious liberals in media call themselves “independent” to worse yet, “conservative”.

riddick on July 5, 2012 at 9:45 PM

and those same “conservatives” are just harlots for whomever pays them the highest. currently they’re spreading their legs for mitt.

renalin on July 5, 2012 at 10:01 PM

How big a deal is the Romney campaign’s tax/penalty flip-flopping?

As big as the MSM can make it, and I guess you must have joined the MSM, because of the 8 points you list, only the last two are related to “tax/penalty flip-flopping”.

Nice work.

drunyan8315 on July 5, 2012 at 10:01 PM

I forgot to mention my big problem with the conservative movement. Leftist Justices Breyer, Ginsburg, Sotomayer, Kagan, and squish Chief Justice Roberts decide the mandate is a tax, and so it is tax.
thuja on July 5, 2012 at 9:53 PM

I think that’s more appropriate. Squish would be a step up for the Chief Traitor.

TxAnn56 on July 5, 2012 at 10:02 PM

NoMittObama 2012

Get rid of Establishment Republicans at all levels.

Steveangell on July 5, 2012 at 9:43 PM

Yeah, so they’ll all be replaced by Democrats!! That’s the ticket! /

changer1701 on July 5, 2012 at 10:02 PM

Romney to add more “seasoned” communication aides to his team. You don’t say.

Philly on July 5, 2012 at 10:02 PM

Proof enough to me that some people who are nominally Republicans are more than happy to censor what some of the rest of us say and how we say it. Yeah, that’s really “conservative” of you, rombots.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 10:01 PM

Don’t feel bad. I have a couple of little creepy “stalkers” of my own here.

ddrintn on July 5, 2012 at 10:03 PM

NoMittObama 2012

Get rid of Establishment Republicans at all levels.

Steveangell on July 5, 2012 at 9:43 PM

Yeah, so they’ll all be replaced by Democrats!! That’s the ticket! /

changer1701 on July 5, 2012 at 10:02 PM

Maybe you don’t quite get it. There’s not much difference between the two.

ddrintn on July 5, 2012 at 10:04 PM

I’m here for an intellectual challenge, to post Conservative ideas and rebuttals, and to get thisguy out of office. Nothing more.

Are we clear now? If you want a “Veteran Poster” only area, then you know who to speak to about that. Out

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 9:31 PM

Your right to post wasn’t the issue.

You were accusing gryphon of being a dem troll. I’ve been an off and on reader of HA for 3 years and gryphon is a staple. If you never noticed gryphon posting then I’m surprised. So, when you accuse gryphon of being a troll on this site it rings flat to all the regular readers and posters. You didn’t do yourself or Romney any favors.

BoxHead1 on July 5, 2012 at 10:04 PM

There was a ticker across Greta’s show that said “Mitt Romney – No Shakeup in Campaign Team – Developing”

He needs to ask Bachmann how well that Ed Rollins gig worked out before she finally canned him.

TxAnn56 on July 5, 2012 at 10:05 PM

Maybe when you learn to spell and have something worth noticing, I will.

Until then, you are just another nutball craving attention.

And worthy only of derision when things are slow.

cozmo on July 5, 2012 at 9:58 PM

Classic deflection! Thanks for the v..e..r..i..f..i..c..a..t..i..o..n. LOL!

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 10:06 PM

BoxHead1 on July 5, 2012 at 10:04 PM

Thank you. You humble me. For the edification of those that may have gotten here a little later, I was in the original crop of open registrants when the site opened. It was a couple of years before I actually started commenting, but I have been here since the beginning.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 10:06 PM

Maybe you don’t quite get it. There’s not much difference between the two.

ddrintn on July 5, 2012 at 10:04 PM

Much like there’s little difference between you and a Kos kid, based on your posts here.

changer1701 on July 5, 2012 at 10:06 PM

changer1701 on July 5, 2012 at 9:57 PM

Reading is fundamental………plebe.

dmann on July 5, 2012 at 10:07 PM

And yet you do not see the sheer stupidity of your position. You have created a no win situation for Romney here. No matter what he does you claim he is flip flopping.

And the while, you are flip flopping yourselves and too dense to see it. Unbelievable.

Terrye on July 5, 2012 at 9:54 PM

Read what you wrote. All of it.

Conservatives have real positions. Republicans should all have real positions.

But no you say Mitt has no real positions and you are OK with that.

Well we are not OK with that. But you are the one who really should get some education on Conservatives. Just because they believe differently than you does not mean their beliefs are not genuine and heartfelt.

Yes we would rather Romney take solid positions. It is fine if we do not agree with some of them as long as overall he will help take back some of the liberal agenda that is already law.

But no one has a clue what Romney will actually do. You try to defend this.

You just come off condescending and arrogant.

Steveangell on July 5, 2012 at 10:07 PM

Ah, now I understand! You don’t really believe that Romney is a progressive.

Gelsomina on July 5, 2012 at 9:51 PM

Was Romney lying then, or is he lying now?

ddrintn on July 5, 2012 at 9:54 PM

He said that 10 years ago. Maybe he changed his mind, like the famous Democrats Reagan and Perry?

Or like Sarah Palin who found out that a bridge to nowhere is not such a good idea, after she had been all for it in her campaign in 2006. I would never ask if she was lying then or in 2008. And I don’t remember you asking this question, either.

Gelsomina on July 5, 2012 at 10:08 PM

There was a ticker across Greta’s show that said “Mitt Romney – No Shakeup in Campaign Team – Developing”

He needs to ask Bachmann how well that Ed Rollins gig worked out before she finally canned him.

TxAnn56 on July 5, 2012 at 10:05 PM

Ed Rollins was a liability to Bachmann chiefly while Bachmann was still running against Romney. This whole business of running against Obama post-convention is a whole different ballgame. And it could turn out even worse for Mitt.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 10:08 PM

Proof enough to me that some people who are nominally Republicans are more than happy to censor what some of the rest of us say and how we say it. Yeah, that’s really “conservative” of you, rombots.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 10:01 PM

There are a number of responses above you’ve chosen to ignore. So…..?

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 10:08 PM

To me the big deal is getting the Marxist out of our White House and our lives.
Mitt Romney was governor of a VERY liberal state. with a legislature filled with left wingers.
You do what you can with the hand your are dealt.
I don’t beliwve Romney hates this country as does Obama and I do believe he will help the Republicans get rid of Obamacare and it’s Tax Penalty

Delsa on July 5, 2012 at 10:08 PM

He needs to ask Bachmann how well that Ed Rollins gig worked out before she finally canned him.

TxAnn56 on July 5, 2012 at 10:05 PM

The minute she picked him, she was toast…

idesign on July 5, 2012 at 10:09 PM

Reading is fundamental………plebe.

dmann on July 5, 2012 at 10:07 PM

And you still didn’t answer the question. Too many big words? Have your mom read it to you, then…she can type, too, if you need.

changer1701 on July 5, 2012 at 10:09 PM

Or like Sarah Palin who found out that a bridge to nowhere is not such a good idea, after she had been all for it in her campaign in 2006. I would never ask if she was lying then or in 2008. And I don’t remember you asking this question, either.

Gelsomina on July 5, 2012 at 10:08 PM

Oh, bug that was one of the harshest criticisms the rombots could come up of her. I didn’t hear many people saying “people change” back then, even among Palin’s defenders. Rombots are absolutely transparent and pathetic when it comes to not holding Mitt to the same standards they hold other Republicans.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 10:10 PM

So, when you accuse gryphon of being a troll on this site it rings flat to all the regular readers and posters.
BoxHead1 on July 5, 2012 at 10:04 PM

True. Gryphon’s mantra has always been principles first. I voted for Bachmann in the Texas primary for that very reason. I knew Romney would sew it up, but she was my first choice. She’s the one person who would’ve repealed Ocare on day 1, without a doubt.

TxAnn56 on July 5, 2012 at 10:10 PM

There was a ticker across Greta’s show that said “Mitt Romney – No Shakeup in Campaign Team – Developing”

He needs to ask Bachmann how well that Ed Rollins gig worked out before she finally canned him.

TxAnn56 on July 5, 2012 at 10:05 PM

Why would Romney shake up his campaign team? Because a bunch of whackjob blog commenters and “conservative” pundit that backed every loser in the GOP primary says so?

lowandslow on July 5, 2012 at 10:10 PM

If Palin flip-flops are hypocrisy and Romney flip-flops are “a game of chess when everyone else is playing checkers,” you might be a rombot.

/JeffFoxworthy

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 10:11 PM

Your right to post wasn’t the issue.

You were accusing gryphon of being a dem troll. I’ve been an off and on reader of HA for 3 years and gryphon is a staple. If you never noticed gryphon posting then I’m surprised. So, when you accuse gryphon of being a troll on this site it rings flat to all the regular readers and posters. You didn’t do yourself or Romney any favors.

BoxHead1 on July 5, 2012 at 10:04 PM

I do beieve I’ve used terms other than troll to describe Gryphon. See above. Correct?

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 10:11 PM

The only thing the two of you ever do is criticize other conservatives and Republicans. You rarely even bother to go after Obama..

Terrye on July 5, 2012 at 9:30 PM

I started my site and initially lost my Green Room privileges over a fierce rant at Obama, so your ignorance means little.

MadisonConservative on July 5, 2012 at 10:11 PM

Not even close….

csdeven attacked people personally, that’s all he did.

He could never argue a position.

idesign on July 5, 2012 at 9:57 PM

That’s exactly what gryphon202 just admitted. He wants to annoy “rombots”.

Gelsomina on July 5, 2012 at 10:12 PM

Why would Romney shake up his campaign team? Because a bunch of whackjob blog commenters and “conservative” pundit that backed every loser in the GOP primary says so?

lowandslow on July 5, 2012 at 10:10 PM

Heh. Bingo!

changer1701 on July 5, 2012 at 10:12 PM

Why would Romney shake up his campaign team? Because a bunch of whackjob blog commenters and “conservative” pundit that backed every loser in the GOP primary says so?

lowandslow on July 5, 2012 at 10:10 PM

I think the very real chance that Fehrnstrom could lose Romney votes in November would be reason enough…but that’s why I’m not in charge of anything but my own itty bitty wittle vote.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 10:12 PM

Or like Sarah Palin who found out that a bridge to nowhere is not such a good idea, after she had been all for it in her campaign in 2006. I would never ask if she was lying then or in 2008. And I don’t remember you asking this question, either.

Gelsomina on July 5, 2012 at 10:08 PM

But she made a decision, and did what was best for the State.

I wonder why they always leave that part out..:)

idesign on July 5, 2012 at 10:12 PM

Ah, now I understand! You don’t really believe that Romney is a progressive.

Gelsomina on July 5, 2012 at 9:51 PM

I know, right? Even Romney knows he’s a progressive!

MadisonConservative on July 5, 2012 at 10:13 PM

Why would Romney shake up his campaign team? lowandslow on July 5, 2012 at 10:10 PM

its a sad thing that you even have to ask.the divide between us is unfathomable and unbridgeable.

drinks on me. the end is near.

renalin on July 5, 2012 at 10:13 PM

That’s exactly what gryphon202 just admitted. He wants to annoy “rombots”.

Gelsomina on July 5, 2012 at 10:12 PM

Who wouldn’t want to annoy personality cultists? When somebody insults you for criticizing a politician, then tries to claim they’re conservative, it’s deserving of annoyance. Make your choice:

1. Politicians are deserving of criticism.
2. Politicians are not deserving of criticism.

MadisonConservative on July 5, 2012 at 10:15 PM

That’s exactly what gryphon202 just admitted. He wants to annoy “rombots”.

Gelsomina on July 5, 2012 at 10:12 PM

No, I said I will continue criticizing Romney as long as it gets under the rombots’ skins. What I want to accomplish is an honest assay of what is best for our republic and how to accomplish it. I fear in the current body-politic, such honest discussion may be nigh-impossible, but I’ll accept annoying rombots as a fringe benefit of my efforts. If my only desire were to annoy stupid people with no hope of any constructive dialogue at all, I would have parted ways with HotAir long ago for LGF, HuffPo, or Kos.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 10:15 PM

MadisonConservative on July 5, 2012 at 10:11 PM

That is great news to hear that you are back posting in the Green Room!..I will check it out!..:):)

PS..Again that is good news!..:)

Dire Straits on July 5, 2012 at 10:15 PM

That’s exactly what gryphon202 just admitted. He wants to annoy “rombots”.

Gelsomina on July 5, 2012 at 10:12 PM

Yep, that’s why I called it out. However, I’m not an “established poster ” here, so…..

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 10:16 PM

I know, right? Even Romney knows he’s a progressive!

MadisonConservative on July 5, 2012 at 10:13 PM

Don’t criticize Romney, Maddy! We all know he’s severely conservative. He said so!/

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 10:17 PM

I know, right? Even Romney knows he’s a progressive!

MadisonConservative on July 5, 2012 at 10:13 PM

Sure. Once a progressive, always a progressive. And once a Democrat, always a Democrat.

Gelsomina on July 5, 2012 at 10:17 PM

changer1701 on July 5, 2012 at 10:09 PM

How sad your life must be………..

dmann on July 5, 2012 at 10:18 PM

Who wouldn’t want to annoy personality cultists? When somebody insults you for criticizing a politician, then tries to claim they’re conservative, it’s deserving of annoyance. Make your choice:

1. Politicians are deserving of criticism.
2. Politicians are not deserving of criticism.

MadisonConservative on July 5, 2012 at 10:15 PM

You left out the third choice:

3. All politicians but Romney are deserving of criticism.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 10:18 PM

its a sad thing that you even have to ask.the divide between us is unfathomable and unbridgeable.

drinks on me. the end is near.

renalin on July 5, 2012 at 10:13 PM

WTF does that even mean? Seems to me that the Romney campaign is doing as well as can be expected against an incumbent President. I don’t ever remember the opposition to an incumbent having the numbers he does at this point. But you go ahead and pretend he’s doing such a horrible job in this election if it makes you feel good.

lowandslow on July 5, 2012 at 10:19 PM

Sure. Once a progressive, always a progressive. And once a Democrat, always a Democrat.

Gelsomina on July 5, 2012 at 10:17 PM

The number of people who are ready to accept hook line and sinker that Romney is “severely conservative” only on his own say-so is staggering.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 10:20 PM

Classic deflection! Thanks for the v..e..r..i..f..i..c..a..t..i..o..n. LOL!

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 10:06 PM

Aw, you are not deserving of respect and rather than prove yourself, you use it to fluff yourself. How special.

cozmo on July 5, 2012 at 10:20 PM

That is great news to hear that you are back posting in the Green Room!..I will check it out!..:):)

PS..Again that is good news!..:)

Dire Straits on July 5, 2012 at 10:15 PM

Thanks, but I won’t be posting much for articles in the Green Room. That’s what my site is for. I will, however, be posting links to upcoming podcasts that Gryph hosts and I ruin.

MadisonConservative on July 5, 2012 at 10:20 PM

Or like Sarah Palin who found out that a bridge to nowhere is not such a good idea, after she had been all for it in her campaign in 2006. I would never ask if she was lying then or in 2008. And I don’t remember you asking this question, either.

Gelsomina on July 5, 2012 at 10:08 PM

Oh, bug that was one of the harshest criticisms the rombots could come up of her. I didn’t hear many people saying “people change” back then, even among Palin’s defenders. Rombots are absolutely transparent and pathetic when it comes to not holding Mitt to the same standards they hold other Republicans.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 10:10 PM

Heard Sarah explain this once. The GOP in Alaska was all for this bridge and Sarah never examined it. Eventually she did and withdrew her support for it. It does take time to learn about all projects in a very large state.

But I will go on and say Sarah was also known for working with Democrats I never really considered her all that Conservative. Just more Conservative than the likes of Murkowski, McCain or Romney. Although she does seem to have become more conservative after what she went through. But I doubt she plans to run for office again. If she ever wants to become President she needs to run for and obtain office somewhere though.

Steveangell on July 5, 2012 at 10:20 PM

Gelsomina on July 5, 2012 at 10:08 PM

come out from under your rock and answer the question? oh, right. you never do. just crawl away, till you pop up again with your obsessive Sarah bashing.

give it a rest.

renalin on July 5, 2012 at 10:21 PM

Why would Romney shake up his campaign team? Because a bunch of whackjob blog commenters and “conservative” pundit that backed every loser in the GOP primary says so?

lowandslow on July 5, 2012 at 10:10 PM

Let’s diagram this moniker. low-and-slow. I rest my case.

TxAnn56 on July 5, 2012 at 10:21 PM

I’m not an “established poster ” here, so…..

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 10:16 PM

Heck, ya’ ain’t even cognizant.

cozmo on July 5, 2012 at 10:21 PM

Sure. Once a progressive, always a progressive. And once a Democrat, always a Democrat.

Gelsomina on July 5, 2012 at 10:17 PM

By the time Reagan was on the ticket, he hadn’t been a democrat for 25 years.

By the time Romney will be on the ticket, he won’t have signed socialized medicine into law for 6 years.

Yeah, I totally see your comparison.

MadisonConservative on July 5, 2012 at 10:21 PM

Thanks, but I won’t be posting much for articles in the Green Room. That’s what my site is for. I will, however, be posting links to upcoming podcasts that Gryph hosts and I ruin.

MadisonConservative on July 5, 2012 at 10:20 PM

Like I said, I don’t limit myself to a single forum. Thanks for the plug, Maddy. Just a continuation of my previous and somewhat stop-and-go podcasting efforts, really.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 10:22 PM

You heard it here first….

Romney just changed his communications team.

idesign on July 5, 2012 at 10:23 PM

Let’s diagram this moniker. low-and-slow. I rest my case.

TxAnn56 on July 5, 2012 at 10:21 PM

Rather than that, understand its usage.

I’m trying to help you out here.

cozmo on July 5, 2012 at 10:23 PM

MadisonConservative on July 5, 2012 at 10:20 PM

Good dealand good luck!..:)

PS..You wrote a good post in the Green Room..:)

Dire Straits on July 5, 2012 at 10:23 PM

Like I said, I don’t limit myself to a single forum. Thanks for the plug, Maddy. Just a continuation of my previous and somewhat stop-and-go podcasting efforts, really.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 10:22 PM

It complements my quite-considerably stop-and-go blogging efforts.

MadisonConservative on July 5, 2012 at 10:24 PM

Dire Straits on July 5, 2012 at 10:23 PM

Thanks. I hope it helped you with any post-Roberts misery.

MadisonConservative on July 5, 2012 at 10:24 PM

My gawd I loathe Mitt Romney. Cannot believe I have to be forced into pulling the plug (I mean lever) for him on election day.

shar61 on July 5, 2012 at 10:24 PM

How sad your life must be………..

dmann on July 5, 2012 at 10:18 PM

Heh. Actually it’s pretty great…’preciate the concern though.

And if you’re unable to answer a couple questions, just say so.

changer1701 on July 5, 2012 at 10:25 PM

lowandslow on July 5, 2012 at 10:19 PM

rich guys like mitt don’t stay in motel 6′s to lose. unfortunately mitts in over his head. he’s never faced such oppostion. lets recall that mccain took mitt over his lap and paddled him till he cried in 2008.

there are a zillion IED’s waiting for mitt, that the left is waiting to detonate. he doesn’t have a snowballs chance.

renalin on July 5, 2012 at 10:26 PM

. I hope it helped you with any post-Roberts misery.

MadisonConservative on July 5, 2012 at 10:24 PM

It did..:)

Dire Straits on July 5, 2012 at 10:26 PM

Aw, you are not deserving of respect and rather than prove yourself, you use it to fluff yourself. How special.

cozmo on July 5, 2012 at 10:20 PM

I’ll be arund, anytime you actually want to address the topic and question at hand rather than obfuscate…but that’s all on you, Champ.

Established? Yeah, that’s what it should take to elicit a response…

Standing by….

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 10:26 PM

Heh. Actually it’s pretty great…’preciate the concern though.

And if you’re unable to answer a couple questions, just say so.

changer1701 on July 5, 2012 at 10:25 PM

I understand completely. I’m still waiting for the answer to what point Romney stopped being progressive, and how we know.

/crickets

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 10:27 PM

Let’s diagram this moniker. low-and-slow. I rest my case.

TxAnn56 on July 5, 2012 at 10:21 PM

Oh I’m the slow one, seems to me his campaign is doing rather well. You just want all the hyperventilating over some asinine semantics crap over tax and penalties to mean something. Gotta be tough for guys to push this so hard when at the end of the day, it hasn’t meant sh*t.

lowandslow on July 5, 2012 at 10:27 PM

Who wouldn’t want to annoy personality cultists? When somebody insults you for criticizing a politician, then tries to claim they’re conservative, it’s deserving of annoyance. Make your choice:

1. Politicians are deserving of criticism.
2. Politicians are not deserving of criticism.

MadisonConservative on July 5, 2012 at 10:15 PM

That’s exactly what csdeven said again and again!

As to 1. and 2.: Where were you during the O’Donnell wars? If you were on the side of those who said that she should be relentlessly criticized, although she was the official GOP candidate, then you are consistent.

Gryphon, on the other hand, constantly implored the O’Donnell haters to stop attacking her after the primaries. Now is the time to support the official candidate, he said. Attacking her now is pointless and harmful, he said.

How the times have changed.

Gelsomina on July 5, 2012 at 10:27 PM

But I doubt she plans to run for office again. If she ever wants to become President she needs to run for and obtain office somewhere though.

Steveangell on July 5, 2012 at 10:20 PM

Disagree…

Welcome to the power of new media..:)

idesign on July 5, 2012 at 10:27 PM

Heck, ya’ ain’t even cognizant.

cozmo on July 5, 2012 at 10:21 PM

*clink* cozmo! There, does that do it for ya? Wromg thread…?

Darn it….LOL!

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 10:28 PM

Standing by….

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 10:26 PM

For what, respect? You must earn that. We ain’t libs here.

cozmo on July 5, 2012 at 10:29 PM

rich guys like mitt don’t stay in motel 6′s to lose. unfortunately mitts in over his head. he’s never faced such oppostion. lets recall that mccain took mitt over his lap and paddled him till he cried in 2008.

there are a zillion IED’s waiting for mitt, that the left is waiting to detonate. he doesn’t have a snowballs chance.

renalin on July 5, 2012 at 10:26 PM

Um, he ran against Ted Kennedy in the early ’90′s. He ran-and won-the governorship in a very liberal state. And yet, you don’t think he’s aware of what the Dems will sling? Please.

And what is with your constant references to Mitt’s wealth? Does that really matter?

changer1701 on July 5, 2012 at 10:29 PM

Gryphon, on the other hand, constantly implored the O’Donnell haters to stop attacking her after the primaries. Now is the time to support the official candidate, he said. Attacking her now is pointless and harmful, he said.

How the times have changed.

Gelsomina on July 5, 2012 at 10:27 PM

In case you forget so quickly, Maddy and I were at extreme loggerheads on that particular matter. And I don’t disavow my feelings on that matter one bit. It was a state-level election that most of the critics weren’t even voting in, and the whole process suffered the taint of Karl Rove’s involvement.

But hey, people change, right? I mean, it’s okay for Romney to flip-flop. That just means he’s a chess player among checkerboards. Right? RIGHT?

Douchebag.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 10:30 PM

there are a zillion IED’s waiting for mitt, that the left is waiting to detonate. he doesn’t have a snowballs chance.

renalin on July 5, 2012 at 10:26 PM

Well then you can tell us all you were right. Because that’s what this election is all about, a chance for a bunch of blog commenters to gloat.

lowandslow on July 5, 2012 at 10:30 PM

Um, he ran against Ted Kennedy in the early ’90′s. He ran-and won-the governorship in a very liberal state. And yet, you don’t think he’s aware of what the Dems will sling? Please.

And what is with your constant references to Mitt’s wealth? Does that really matter?

changer1701 on July 5, 2012 at 10:29 PM

And it was ten years later, in 2002, that he called himself progressive. At what point did he cease being progressive, and why?

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 10:32 PM

That’s exactly what csdeven said again and again!

csdeven, the Romney acolyte who actually claimed that Massachusetts’ socialized medicine program was fundamentally conservative? Another great comparison!

As to 1. and 2.: Where were you during the O’Donnell wars? If you were on the side of those who said that she should be relentlessly criticized, although she was the official GOP candidate, then you are consistent.

Gelsomina on July 5, 2012 at 10:27 PM

Um, I relentlessly criticized her, much to the chagrin of everyone who said “She beat Mike Castle so we should vote for her”, while she lied in interviews left and right over her own record of fiscal irresponsibility.

MadisonConservative on July 5, 2012 at 10:33 PM

How many listeners could a Madison Conservative and a gryphon202 have for christsake? Even the most hardcore whackjobs would get tired of listening to those two piss and moan after ten minutes.

lowandslow on July 5, 2012 at 10:33 PM

My gawd I loathe Mitt Romney. Cannot believe I have to be forced into pulling the plug (I mean lever) for him on election day.

shar61 on July 5, 2012 at 10:24 PM

I try to think of it as the only band-aid around to put on this hemorrhaging country, thanks to Dr. Barack Kevorkian. The path to repeal has to go through Romney. It’s as simple as that. I accept it, but I don’t have to like it. Even if Roberts had done the right thing, Obama still needs to go. Four unfettered years of this tyrant, well, it’s too dark to even think about.

TxAnn56 on July 5, 2012 at 10:34 PM

I understand completely. I’m still waiting for the answer to what point Romney stopped being progressive, and how we know.

/crickets

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 10:27 PM

Then please explain to the group why you plan on voting for him, regardeless, regardless of your countless objections to the man?

Standing by…..

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 10:34 PM

Who wouldn’t want to annoy personality cultists? When somebody insults you for criticizing a politician, then tries to claim they’re conservative, it’s deserving of annoyance. Make your choice:

1. Politicians are deserving of criticism.
2. Politicians are not deserving of criticism.

MadisonConservative on July 5, 2012 at 10:15 PM

Spare me. I am not in love with any politician. None of them are perfect. I do not agree with any of them on all issues. I do not even agree with my husband on all issues and I do love the man.

The point is that at this point going after Romney for some silly nitpicky nonsense about a flip flop that is not even a flip flop only serves to help Obama. That is all. I am not saying you have to love the man..but some of this is just stupid.

I am sorry that is how I feel. And I think some of these people who are constantly harping are just pissed their person did not win the primary and so they are willing to sacrifice the election out of spite. They want to say I told you so.

If Romney loses, I will be blaming a lot of those whiny back stabbing sore losers.

Terrye on July 5, 2012 at 10:35 PM

Well then you can tell us all you were right. Because that’s what this election is all about, a chance for a bunch of blog commenters to gloat.

lowandslow on July 5, 2012 at 10:30 PM

I have a standing bet with one commenter here that Mitt will win by less than 5% of the aggregate popular vote. Should that happen, I am entitled to a single “see I told you so.” Should Romney actually lose, which I don’t believe will happen, there will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth on my part, and absolutely NO gloating. I am capable of being quite crass, as my posts here occasionally amply demonstrate, but I am above

that particular brand

of douchebaggery.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 10:35 PM

Rather than that, understand its usage.

I’m trying to help you out here.

cozmo on July 5, 2012 at 10:23 PM

Great! Now all the lies and flip-flops will be text messaged to the entire team to be in sync.

It doesn’t matter if its a lie just as long as everyone repeats it.

Yeah!

riddick on July 5, 2012 at 10:36 PM

That’s exactly what gryphon202 just admitted. He wants to annoy “rombots”.

Gelsomina on July 5, 2012 at 10:12 PM

Yep, that’s why I called it out. However, I’m not an “established poster ” here, so…..

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 10:16 PM

There is no hierarchy here. Just comment away …

I’m not an established poster, either. I’m just a nuisance, if something bothers me. Most of the time I’m completely ignored, but it’s fun anyway.

Gelsomina on July 5, 2012 at 10:38 PM

The point is that at this point going after Romney for some silly nitpicky nonsense…

Terrye on July 5, 2012 at 10:35 PM

You apply this description to all criticism of Romney. At least own your unquestioning support of him and hostility towards actual critics.

MadisonConservative on July 5, 2012 at 10:38 PM

Then please explain to the group why you plan on voting for him, regardeless, regardless of your countless objections to the man?

Standing by…..

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 10:34 PM

Because Obama’s utter hatred of America and American tradition causes me to loathe him nominally more than I loathe Romney’s lack of any meaningful principle. To put it another way, I detest Romney’s lack of principle, but I detest Obama’s stated and demonstrated principles somewhat more.

At this stage in the game, my biggest fear is that the people who said in 2008 that “I’m done with choosing the lesser of two evils” aren’t being taken seriously. I was not one of those people, as I figured we would be forced to choose between the lesser of two evils yet again in 2012. The Republicans did not disappoint on that score.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 10:39 PM

How many listeners could a Madison Conservative and a gryphon202 have for christsake?

lowandslow on July 5, 2012 at 10:33 PM

I dunno’, more than you?

cozmo on July 5, 2012 at 10:40 PM

If Romney loses, I will be blaming a lot of those whiny back stabbing sore losers.

Terrye on July 5, 2012 at 10:35 PM

Yes. Because a real conservative defends politicians who aren’t conservative when they lose.

I’m thinking of voting for Romney, but telling people I didn’t, just to soak up some of that infantile blame-slinging that you embrace to avoid the fact that he’s as bad or worse than McCain.

MadisonConservative on July 5, 2012 at 10:41 PM

If you are a “Romney Supporter” call Conservatives “Bitter Clingers’ on Hot Air, odds are you’re actually a Progressive.

kingsjester on July 5, 2012 at 10:41 PM

The point is that at this point going after Romney for some silly nitpicky nonsense…

Terrye on July 5, 2012 at 10:35 PM

You apply this description to all criticism of Romney. At least own your unquestioning support of him and hostility towards actual critics.

MadisonConservative on July 5, 2012 at 10:38 PM

The question of support for the constitution as-written, the support for liberty, and Romney’s history as a self-professing “progressive” are not issues of silly nitpicky nonsense to me. They cut to the very heart of why I am not looking forward to November, win lose or draw.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 10:41 PM

rich guys like mitt don’t stay in motel 6′s to lose. unfortunately mitts in over his head. he’s never faced such oppostion. lets recall that mccain took mitt over his lap and paddled him till he cried in 2008.

there are a zillion IED’s waiting for mitt, that the left is waiting to detonate. he doesn’t have a snowballs chance.

renalin on July 5, 2012 at 10:26 PM

Um, he ran against Ted Kennedy in the early ’90′s. He ran-and won-the governorship in a very liberal state. And yet, you don’t think he’s aware of what the Dems will sling? Please.

And what is with your constant references to Mitt’s wealth? Does that really matter?

changer1701 on July 5, 2012 at 10:29 PM

Mitt ran in 2008 only so he could actually win the nomination in 2012.

I detest Mitt but he is very very talented as a Politician or pretty much anything else he puts his head into.

He has no chance but because he will never get conservatives to vote for him. However Mitt is far too smart for me to think I could outsmart him. Thus I will venture to say his path to victory will not depend on Conservatives voting for him. I think he will actually get Democrats in large numbers to vote for him or he will lose.

I wish I knew what Mitt was up to. I do not. This really concerns me because whatever it is it will move the Progressive Agenda forward at a breakneck speed.

NoMittObama 2012

Vote out Establishment Republicans whenever possible.

Steveangell on July 5, 2012 at 10:41 PM

Yeah!

riddick on July 5, 2012 at 10:36 PM

It beats your sides cheer.

cozmo on July 5, 2012 at 10:41 PM

Wow. What anger some have over the slightest criticism of Romney. I got personally attacked by the 4 people that make il his GOTV effort for pointing out that some of us have no love for him whatsoever yet will still vote for him anyway.

Keep Mitt’s feet to the fire gryph. Same to u madcon.

Spliff Menendez on July 5, 2012 at 10:42 PM

The question of support for the constitution as-written, the support for liberty, and Romney’s history as a self-professing “progressive” are not issues of silly nitpicky nonsense to me. They cut to the very heart of why I am not looking forward to November, win lose or draw.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 10:41 PM

Fear makes it very difficult to process legitimate criticism. Many of those who attack critics of Romney are overwhelmed with fear of Obama, and while it’s understandable, it’s no excuse for total abandonment of principles.

MadisonConservative on July 5, 2012 at 10:43 PM

Will it matter to Conservative Slaves if Willard Flip-Flops?

Hell naw – they will glass their eyes over and go to the polls like zombies to vote for him – and their establishment overlords. They’ll pull that lever to destroy what was left of the GOP’s Reagan Legacy and march lock step into the brave new world of the British Conservative Party – brought to them by Karl Rove, David Frum, and Megan McCain …

Willard can flip and flop all he wants. He can sh** all over any conservative he wants to (and he has continuously done so) … and it won’t make one iota of difference to the Conservative Slaves servicing him on the GOP establishment plantation.

For … the Ayatollahs have “a-feared” them of four more years of Obama!!!

They are willing to OWN every single one of “President Willard’s” liberal actions when he’s in office – and embrace them as their own!

LOL

HondaV65 on July 5, 2012 at 10:43 PM

And it was ten years later, in 2002, that he called himself progressive. At what point did he cease being progressive, and why?

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 10:32 PM

That really has nothing to do with my comment, and I think you’re making a mountain of a molehill, but sure, since you’re so eager and all…I dunno. He’s talked about how he came around on abortion, and I assume any change in other views would’ve occurred around the same time. I think he said a lot of stuff just to appeal to the libs in MA, but that’s just me.

Or you can believe the absolute worst about him and that he is still a progressive. Since you seem inclined to that very thing, I’m not sure any answer will be satisfactory.

changer1701 on July 5, 2012 at 10:43 PM

Terrye, its not nitpicky nonsense to point outMitt doesn’t have principles. Its a real concern to many.

Spliff Menendez on July 5, 2012 at 10:44 PM

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