How big a deal is the Romney campaign’s tax/penalty flip-flopping?

posted at 8:01 pm on July 5, 2012 by Allahpundit

Does anyone seriously care about this? I know we’ve written a bunch of posts about it — it’s the political story du jour so we’re almost obliged — but I can’t believe there’s a single voter outside the chattering class that’s following it. Think of all the things a voter has to know just to be able to keep up:

1. Massachusetts has universal health insurance.
2. The linchpin of that insurance program is a mandate requiring people to buy coverage.
3. The program was signed into law by Mitt Romney.
4. ObamaCare is based on Massachusetts’s program.
5. States can pass mandates requiring citizens to purchase things but it’s not clear whether the federal government can do so under the Constitution.
6. The Supreme Court recently ruled that the federal government can impose mandates pursuant to its tax power but not pursuant to its power over interstate commerce.
7. Romney’s campaign spokesman, Eric Fehrnstrom, said after the Court’s decision that he believes the mandate is not a tax.
8. Mitt Romney contradicted Fehrnstrom by saying that if the Supreme Court thinks the mandate’s a tax, then it should be regarded as a tax — even if he personally disagrees with that interpretation.

How many of those facts do you think the average low-information swing voter — the group that’s going to decide this election — is aware of? One? Maybe two? Bear in mind, despite the Court ruling having been front page on every newspaper in America last week, fully 45 percent of adults said afterwards that they either didn’t know how the Court had ruled or thought that they had struck down most of ObamaCare. That’s the level of ignorance we’re dealing with here. And yet we’re now seeing dopey navel-gazing in the papers and grumbling among some prominent conservatives about whether Romney should shake up his campaign staff, even though the guy’s within three points in the poll of polls. I can accept this being a one-day story, if only because it’s the slowest week of the summer and we need something to kvetch about it. But we’re now on day four, full in the knowledge that the voters whom Mitt needs to win the election are in a de facto coma when it comes to this subject. C’mon.

Besides, if you think this is a big deal and simply must have someone to blame, why blame Romney’s staff instead of the candidate himself? They’re not the ones who made RomneyCare happen. Philip Klein:

In April 2010, just weeks after the national health care law passed, I warned that if Republicans nominated Romney in 2012, it could kill the effort to repeal Obamacare, precisely because he wouldn’t be able to credibly attack Obama on health care. It’s something that I emphasized repeatedly during the primaries and discussed in my ebook on the Romney nomination. Had Republicans nominated any other GOP candidate, right now they’d be sitting back and watching Obama and his surrogates squirm in trying to explain why the mandate was a tax for legal purposes but still didn’t violate his middle class tax pledge. Instead, Romney’s struggles to reconcile the irreconcilable are complicating things…

It’s inevitable that any Republican holding or seeking office who attacks Obamacare’s mandate as a tax will be asked whether the Massachusetts mandate signed by their own nominee is also a tax. They shouldn’t feel the need to defend Romney’s untenable position, or to squirm uncomfortably when asked. Republicans can agree with Romney on repeal without having to make excuses for what he did in Massachusetts. A good answer would be something along the lines of this: “You never find a candidate who you’re going to agree with 100 percent of the time. I disagree with mandates at both the federal and state level and don’t support the Massachusetts health care law. But I do agree with Romney that Obamacare is a disastrous law for all 50 states and that it needs to be repealed. And that’s why I support him.”

This is all going to come to a head three months from now when Obama and Romney get into a squabble at one of the debates over one guy’s mandate versus the other guy’s mandate, and the press will wet itself over whether the exchange is a gamechanger and how Obama proved he was a fightin’ Democrat after all by putting Romney on the defensive and whether Romney should have hired a different debate coach, blah blah blah blah blah. And meanwhile, 80 percent of the people watching it at home will be thinking “What are they arguing about now?

Speaking of taxes and penalties, here’s Romney suggesting that Roberts is no longer his model for a Supreme Court nominee. Exit question: Anyone think that Paul Clement won’t be nominated at the first available vacancy if Romney wins?


Related Posts:

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 2 3 4 6

We’re not ignorant on what the states can do. We know that their police powers are clearly stronger than the federal government’s. The fact that a state government can do something does not make it good!!!

besser tot als rot on July 5, 2012 at 8:47 PM

Out here in the berkshires we don’t drive 45mph on a coutry road in the winter even though the sign says we can.

rik on July 5, 2012 at 8:44 PM

All I’m trying to say is that what ever happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas. So it’s their problem, Mass wanted it, they got it. When the Federal Government starts telling me I gotta eat my vegetables, we have a problem.

cajun carrot on July 5, 2012 at 8:55 PM

Your constant dumping on a candidate who you’ve already stated that you will vote for in the General gets really freaking old. You clutter up any thread which mentions Mitt with dozens of posts that are basically worthless to the central cause of geting the current TOTUS in Chief out of office.

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 8:49 PM

No kidding. But stick around…you’ll see that applies to many posters here.

changer1701 on July 5, 2012 at 8:57 PM

The stupid effing sheep aren’t going to sit up and pay attention til the huge bites in their paychecks show up, or when they go to jail for being too pig ignorant to get that if you don’t pay for the mandate or the penalty, then you will go to jail.

At which point it may be way too late.

sage0925 on July 5, 2012 at 8:57 PM

So when did you start putting your trust in campaign promises, particularly from someone who 10 years ago called himself progressive?

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 8:43 PM

Well, Obama certainly isn’t making any promises of repeal. Guess I’ll go with the guy who is.

10 Years ago, I was pro choice, and thought Communism was kind of a cool idea if implemented properly. People change.

1984 in real life on July 5, 2012 at 8:54 PM

Really? You think the guy who implemented Obamacare in Massachusetts is more trustworthy than the guy who implemented it nationally? Your prerogative, I guess. But I tend to put more stock in actions than in words.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 8:57 PM

He needs to have a Tim Russert white board that has bullet points of the most onerous provisions. No one ever mentions the 3.8% medicare tax on the sale of your house. Or how businesses with over 50 employees have to have lactation rooms for breast feeding mothers. Or the 40% tax on dividend income. Of course this doesn’t affect moochers since we provide the dividends. Newt wasn’t my favoite but he would’ve hammered Obama into a disgusting pulp by now. For the love of God, grow a spine.

TxAnn56 on July 5, 2012 at 8:40 PM

You’re on the right track here. What I’ve been saying to the campaign, so far to no avail, is that they need to develop a ten-point list, including some of things you’ve mentioned — kind of a Letterman “top ten” reasons that Obamacare sucks — and advertise it everywhere. Romney, should also have the top 3 or so ready to throw out there any time he’s asked a question involving Obamacare.

While 52% of the public now want Obamacare repealed, probably because they’ve heard about one or more of these nasty parts of it, we could drive that number so high that this, alone, would shut Obama up not to mention take him down.

TXUS on July 5, 2012 at 8:58 PM

Is Mittens going to announce next that abortion is an issue of “privacy”? The SCOTUS said so. It must be true.

And when Barky hands out welfare checks through the IRS to people who don’t have tax liabilities (as was done in the porkulus) is Mittens going to agree that the Dog-Eater has “lowered taxes” or that he’s a “tax cutter”?

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on July 5, 2012 at 8:58 PM

The issue is Roberts, and not whether the mandate is a tax or a penalty.

farsighted on July 5, 2012 at 8:46 PM

This whole conundrum is like a How I Met Your Mother episode when you look back on how we got here. Olympia Snowe was the 60th vote to get it to the floor for a vote. It could have been stopped there. Then Scott Brown was the 41st vote. Then they played dirty with reconciliation. Then there were sellouts Bart Stupak, Nelson and Landreiu. Roberts was the last line of defense and he failed miserably to understate matters. If we don’t win, he will have singlehandedly destroyed a nation with the stroke of his poisonous pen. I hope he’s as villified as OJ for the rest of his stinking life.

TxAnn56 on July 5, 2012 at 8:58 PM

So when did you start putting your trust in campaign promises, particularly from someone who 10 years ago called himself progressive?

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 8:43 PM

That’s the thing about Romney. I just don’t trust him. I know he’ll be 1M times better than the marxist, but something just bothers me…

/Conundrum

Mitt needs to do something convincing. If he comes off this vacation and remains robotic? Two peas in a pod.

Key West Reader on July 5, 2012 at 8:59 PM

Romnet’s flip-flop does not matter. All that will matter is whether or not voters want to get rid of Obamacare. I also doubt Roberts’ cowardly ruling will matter to most.

If a voter wants to get rid of Obamacare there is only one chance and choice, Romney.

Whether or not Romney and the GOP will follow through on their rhetoric does not matter. If a voter is opposed to Obamacare voting for Obama is irrational.

So it will depend on how important getting rid of Obamacare is to the electorate. Romney should attack Obamacare on economic grounds.

farsighted on July 5, 2012 at 8:59 PM

All I’m trying to say is that what ever happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas. So it’s their problem, Mass wanted it, they got it. When the Federal Government starts telling me I gotta eat my vegetables, we have a problem.

cajun carrot on July 5, 2012 at 8:55 PM

Federal money is going to Massachusetts to implement Romneycare. We are already all paying for it. And if it’s a problem for Massachusetts, it is not inconsequential that the guy that made it possible wants to sit behind the Resolute Desk in the office of the most powerful individual in the world. Someone who just 10 years ago was telling a reporter that he considered himself “progressive.” I don’t buy that “people change” bullshit. Not this time.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 9:01 PM

It matters not.

In the Blue Corner is “the smartest man ever” to take the office. He won on “Hope and Change” but had no experience in the real world and voted “present” in his political life. When he we won office he blamed Bush for everything as he foisted massive programs on us, lying and smiling along the way.

In the Red Corner, is a guy with a long record of success in business and a so-so record as the executive of a state. But he does have a history of getting things done. He has turned disaster into triumph (remember the Salt Lake City Olympics?). With Bain, he helped build some extremely successful companies. As Governor of Massachusetts he fought with and worked with democrats. And got some things done.

Is Romney the perfect candidate? No. Not for me. As a Massachusetts resident, I hate RomneyCare (It is a PAIN IN THE A$$ to have to prove to the State that I have private Insurance every tax season!). But, at the end of the day, I think the country will vote for the guy who has done stuff vs the guy who spends his time lying, smiling and blaming others.

Or maybe I’m a nieve fool.

BRunner on July 5, 2012 at 9:01 PM

I’ll quit posting on Mitt and his shortcomings when it stops hitting nerves in his supporters. And if you think this is the only forum in which I tweak rombots, you are sadly mistaken.

As for my “responsibility” for Obama’s re-election,it begins and ends with my choice at the ballot box. You can bet your sweet ass cheeks I will loudly and often say “I didn’t vote for this, and I would have nominated someone else” if it comes down to it, as is my right as an American citizen, and my privilege as a poster here until such time as an admin sees fit to revoke it.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 8:53 PM

I can explain to you the hypocrisy you exhibit, but I can’t comprehend it for you, Champ. That’s all on you, and based on your post bombing both here and (as you admitted) other sites, I’d say your earning your “Obame stash” cash. You’re done to me as any kind of real Conservative.

It is my hope that the others here see this and end their time and effort arguing with a Barrybot.

Be well Comrade. LOL!

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 9:01 PM

That’s the thing about Romney. I just don’t trust him. I know he’ll be 1M times better than the marxist, but something just bothers me…

/Conundrum

Mitt needs to do something convincing. If he comes off this vacation and remains robotic? Two peas in a pod.

Key West Reader on July 5, 2012 at 8:59 PM

I could give you words for what bothers you. You’d probably think I was full of shit, but I think I could make a pretty educated guess.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 9:02 PM

Federal money is going to Massachusetts to implement Romneycare. We are already all paying for it. And if it’s a problem for Massachusetts, it is not inconsequential that the guy that made it possible wants to sit behind the Resolute Desk in the office of the most powerful individual in the world. Someone who just 10 years ago was telling a reporter that he considered himself “progressive.” I don’t buy that “people change” bullshit. Not this time.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 9:01 PM

See ya, Barrybot.

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 9:03 PM

You’re on the right track here. What I’ve been saying to the campaign, so far to no avail, is that they need to develop a ten-point list, including some of things you’ve mentioned — kind of a Letterman “top ten” reasons that Obamacare sucks — and advertise it everywhere. Romney, should also have the top 3 or so ready to throw out there any time he’s asked a question involving Obamacare.

While 52% of the public now want Obamacare repealed, probably because they’ve heard about one or more of these nasty parts of it, we could drive that number so high that this, alone, would shut Obama up not to mention take him down.

TXUS on July 5, 2012 at 8:58 PM

Exactly.

farsighted on July 5, 2012 at 9:03 PM

It is my hope that the others here see this and end their time and effort arguing with a Barrybot.

Be well Comrade. LOL!

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 9:01 PM

The ad hominem is thick with this one.

Get that, ABO’s? You can make up your mind to vote for Romney and still be a “Barrybot” if you say the wrong things on a blog. Beware. LOLOLOL

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 9:03 PM

See ya, Barrybot.

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 9:03 PM

Ciao, douchebag.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 9:04 PM

Romneycare
Obamacare
Robertscare

……….. they all suck

fogw on July 5, 2012 at 9:04 PM

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 9:03 PM

Couldn’t help but notice, for someone who claims that blog comments are so freaking inconsequential, this douchebag sure does seem quick to accuse me of aiding and abetting the enemy irrespective of my actual vote.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 9:05 PM

Taxachusetts has been renamed to Penaltychusetts.

SparkPlug on July 5, 2012 at 9:05 PM

While 52% of the public now want Obamacare repealed, probably because they’ve heard about one or more of these nasty parts of it, we could drive that number so high that this, alone, would shut Obama up not to mention take him down.

TXUS on July 5, 2012 at 8:58 PM

Not to mention the doctor shortage and that they’ll have to be imported from India or some other third world country. My GP is almost 60, has a ranch and said if this goes through, she’ll probably retire. She doesn’t want to, but said she didn’t go into medicine to become a bureaucrat. You run commercials with the very worst of the little known provisions and you’ll bring over those on the fence.

TxAnn56 on July 5, 2012 at 9:07 PM

I could give you words for what bothers you. You’d probably think I was full of shit, but I think I could make a pretty educated guess.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 9:02 PM

What….. Just say it, Gryph. My gut doesn’t trust him but what is the alternative?

Key West Reader on July 5, 2012 at 9:07 PM

Taxachusetts has been renamed to Penaltychusetts.

SparkPlug on July 5, 2012 at 9:05 PM

LOL.

But we’re going to have pay for them to change all their signs and letterheads, now.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on July 5, 2012 at 9:08 PM

This is moronic beyond words. There has been no “flip-flopping” on this subject, as none at all to any rational mind. The quality of the pointless silly accusations directed towards Romney by Allah Pundit is getting worse. Let Romney make a mistake before criticizing him.

thuja on July 5, 2012 at 9:08 PM

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 9:03 PM

I seem to remember a time when you were calling RRS folks things like that.

Welcome to the party, milk and cookies are in the corner.

Those wallflowers are the newest recruits.

cozmo on July 5, 2012 at 9:08 PM

Ciao, douchebag.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 9:04 PM

That’s what I like about arguing with Barrybots. It raises the intellectual level of conversation so, so much when they run out of their very limited supply of verbal (textual) logical, factual ammo! LOL!

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 9:08 PM

Well, they accurately predicted what a great thing the Arab Spring was!

Oh, wait.

Key West Reader on July 5, 2012 at 8:47 PM

Hillary Clinton is that crowd’s ideal candidate. :-)

Mr. Arkadin on July 5, 2012 at 9:09 PM

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 9:08 PM

Nah, we just tire of y’all 0bama supporters pretending to be rightys in order to torpedo every candidate.

cozmo on July 5, 2012 at 9:10 PM

What….. Just say it, Gryph. My gut doesn’t trust him but what is the alternative?

Key West Reader on July 5, 2012 at 9:07 PM

Your gut doesn’t trust him because deep down you know in the very cockles of your soul that Romney doesn’t share your values any more than the vast majority of DC politicians do. And like me, you may end up voting for him anyway simply because Obama hates America and Mitt doesn’t, but that doesn’t mean you’re happy with the situation. In fact, if you’re anything at all like me, you’re probably looking forward to November not with anticipation, but with trepidation and fear. Somewhere in the back of your mind is that little socratic daemon whispering, “…but what if Romney doesn’t win? What then?” And the only answer you have for it is, “I don’t know.”

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 9:12 PM

That’s what I like about arguing with Barrybots. It raises the intellectual level of conversation so, so much when they run out of their very limited supply of verbal (textual) logical, factual ammo! LOL!

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 9:08 PM

Yeah. I’m a barrybot. I’m so busted. You got me. All this time, since the site first opened seven years ago, I’ve been waiting to strike so I could make sure Obama got elected in ’08 and re-elected in ’12. Damn, you’re good!/

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 9:13 PM

Couldn’t help but notice, for someone who claims that blog comments are so freaking inconsequential, this douchebag sure does seem quick to accuse me of aiding and abetting the enemy irrespective of my
gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 9:05 PM

If your posts about MR matched your supposed “vote”, sometime in the future, mythical “actual vote”, I might be somewhat inclined to believe you. As it stands, give me a reason to believe, based on your posts, that you will actually vote for Mitt.

Nice try, Champ….

Standing by……

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 9:14 PM

Federal money is going to Massachusetts to implement Romneycare.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 9:01 PM

That’s because the Federal Government, per my argument above, is not respecting our rights as states. Romney’s argument is still sound. The Federal Government can tax, we have representatives (though corrupt) to decide how that taxation is allocated. Where is our power as a state to tell the Feds to piss off when they invoke a tax a state doesn’t agree with? Robert’s just crapped on it in my opinion. What are we to do now?

cajun carrot on July 5, 2012 at 9:14 PM

This is moronic beyond words. There has been no “flip-flopping” on this subject, as none at all to any rational mind. The quality of the pointless silly accusations directed towards Romney by Allah Pundit is getting worse. Let Romney make a mistake before criticizing him.

thuja on July 5, 2012 at 9:08 PM

I think Fehrnstrom made the mistake, and Romney’s biggest mistake in this whole sad affair has been not summarily shit-canning Fehrnstrom for speaking out-of-turn. You ask me, from a strategery standpoint, that looks awfully suspicious…

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 9:15 PM

This is moronic beyond words. There has been no “flip-flopping” on this subject, as none at all to any rational mind. The quality of the pointless silly accusations directed towards Romney by Allah Pundit is getting worse. Let Romney make a mistake before criticizing him.

thuja on July 5, 2012 at 9:08 PM

I apologize. I read only the headline, not what Allahpundit wrote. In fact, it turns out that I agree with what Allahpundit wrote.

thuja on July 5, 2012 at 9:15 PM

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 9:01 PM

True. and thanks from MA

rik on July 5, 2012 at 9:15 PM

Get that, ABO’s? You can make up your mind to vote for Romney and still be a “Barrybot” if you say the wrong things on a blog. Beware. LOLOLOL

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 9:03 PM

Wear it like a badge of honor….

It’s just funny to watch the pretzel logic from the Mittwits..:)

idesign on July 5, 2012 at 9:16 PM

If your posts about MR matched your supposed “vote”, sometime in the future, mythical “actual vote”, I might be somewhat inclined to believe you. As it stands, give me a reason to believe, based on your posts, that you will actually vote for Mitt.

Nice try, Champ….

Standing by……

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 9:14 PM

If you don’t take me at my word, there’s nothing I could do short of inviting you into the polling place with me and showing you my party afiliation. As it is, after the election, I could also lie about having voted for Romney. But sure, you’re just an impartial douchebag observer.

Concern troll is concerned.

/facepalm

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 9:16 PM

If Romney doesn’t get rid of that gaggle of inept fools running his campaign he’ll quickly turn into McCain II. If it stands as it now is he’ll just stumble into November and lose. This is sad.

rplat on July 5, 2012 at 9:17 PM

52% of the public now want Obamacare repealed

I wonder if that correlates to the 51% of Americans who pay an income tax. Hmmmm…

Difficultas_Est_Imperium on July 5, 2012 at 9:18 PM

Your constant dumping on a candidate who you’ve already stated that you will vote for in the General gets really freaking old. You clutter up any thread which mentions Mitt with dozens of posts that are basically worthless to the central cause of geting the current TOTUS in Chief out of office.

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 8:49 PM

This is not a Mitt Romney site. This is a conservative politics blog, hence we have conservative commenters. Mitt Romney is as conservative as Elton John with a new credit card. Therefore, you have conservatives who note Romney’s lack of conservatism, and hence, you have criticism of Romney over said lack. Someone with the name “ManWithNoParty” should understand this. Unfortunately, having never seen you post on this site before, I don’t have any idea what your level of intellectual honesty is, so I guess I digress. Suffice to say that this is a site for conservatives to express their opinions about politics. That is what gryph is doing, and that is what you are attacking him over. We, as conservatives, have a responsibility to protect the rights of voters to criticize candidates. We do not have a responsibility to protect politicians from valid criticism. Get that straight, mmmmkay Sport?

MadisonConservative on July 5, 2012 at 9:18 PM

Yeah. I’m a barrybot. I’m so busted. You got me. All this time, since the site first opened seven years ago, I’ve been waiting to strike so I could make sure Obama got elected in ’08 and re-elected in ’12. Damn, you’re good!/

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 9:13 PM

Yeah. I know. But I do appreciate the acknowledgement, Champ.

I’ve been around commnt sites prior to elections since ’99, and your type is not hard to spot. Look for me to be on here again and again, rebutting your posts, as the only way to advance truth is to expose the paid liars. Be well and rest up. You’re gonna need it! LOL!

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 9:19 PM

That’s because the Federal Government, per my argument above, is not respecting our rights as states. Romney’s argument is still sound. The Federal Government can tax, we have representatives (though corrupt) to decide how that taxation is allocated. Where is our power as a state to tell the Feds to piss off when they invoke a tax a state doesn’t agree with? Robert’s just crapped on it in my opinion. What are we to do now?

cajun carrot on July 5, 2012 at 9:14 PM

We petition our respective state legislatures to pass resolutions officially recognizing the nullification of Obamacare. I’m sorry if it rubs you the wrong way, but firstly, I believe that repealing the law lends it an aura of constitutional credibility that it should not have, and secondly, trusting Mitt Romney in any capacity as regards health care reform is a HUGE mistake.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 9:19 PM

Didn’t bother me much to be honest. But then again, I am still ticked off about the “Cadillac” portion of this boondoggle. Figures set at $10,200 for a single person with a 40% tax (think benefits in lieu of wages as my husband chose ) the numbers put together before thinking inflation of insurance premiums. Can’t even imagine how much the premiums will be in 2018 – many more people are going to get hit harder than they thought in 2018. This “not a tax ” just a penalty is BS, just sayin……..

marinconservative on July 5, 2012 at 9:20 PM

Mitt Romney is as conservative as Elton John with a new credit card.

MadisonConservative on July 5, 2012 at 9:18 PM

I love that. Can I steal it?

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 9:21 PM

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 9:12 PM

You almost sounded like Col. Nathan R. Jessup there for a second. :-)

TxAnn56 on July 5, 2012 at 9:21 PM

I think Fehrnstrom made the mistake, and Romney’s biggest mistake in this whole sad affair has been not summarily shit-canning Fehrnstrom for speaking out-of-turn. You ask me, from a strategery standpoint, that looks awfully suspicious…

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 9:15 PM

Fehrnstrom didn’t make a mistake either. He was merely saying the conservative position on the subject. You may remember it as the position we all agreed with a week ago. In response to the outcry against Fehrnstrom for agreeing with the conservative position, Romney looked at the mandate though a Supreme Court decision that we would have disagreed with a week ago, but now for some crazy we consider the right thing to say.

If anyone has flip-flopped on this issue it is the conservative moment itself and I have no clue why beyond group think.

thuja on July 5, 2012 at 9:23 PM

You almost sounded like Col. Nathan R. Jessup there for a second. :-)

TxAnn56 on July 5, 2012 at 9:21 PM

You insult me, sir. That entire monologue was written by Aaron Sorkin.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 9:23 PM

Flip flopping? Really? The Republican party has flip flopped on this in a way…no one expected that bizarre decision and suddenly every Republican out there was accepting the contention of the Chief Justice that the mandate was a tax..it was not a penalty and thus it was constitutional. And Romney took crap for actually siding with the dissent…which is what everyone else did until a day or so after the decision.

Beck is selling Tshirts calling Roberts a traitor…Rush is saying there are no silver linings, this just sucks…all over the rightie blogs people are pissed off. I was pissed off.

But then it dawned on them that the Supreme Court gave the Republicans a political weapon.

So who exactly did the most flip flopping? And in the end Romney said he still agreed with the dissenters, but he accepted the fact that the Supreme Court has spoken.

But the people who are calling him a flip flopper are just oblivious to their own inconsistencies.

Most people do not care if you call it a mandate or a tax..they just know they are stuck with this thing and they want it to go away.

As for the bill in Mass…No, people who hate this bill are not going to sit home just because of that and people who support the President are going to go on doing that whatever the Supreme Court says.

Terrye on July 5, 2012 at 9:24 PM

o/t

“America will never tap into educational innovation and ingenuity without looking at the model that we have in our madrassas, in our schools, where innovation is encouraged, where the foundation is the Quran. And that model that we are pushing in some of our schools meets the multiple needs of students.”

- Congressman Andre Carson (D-IN)

Read more and see video: http://dailycaller.com/2012/07/05/rep-carson-americas-schools-should-use-madrassas-as-model/#ixzz1znk73UNC

Resist We Much on July 5, 2012 at 9:25 PM

Fehrnstrom didn’t make a mistake either. He was merely saying the conservative position on the subject. You may remember it as the position we all agreed with a week ago. In response to the outcry against Fehrnstrom for agreeing with the conservative position, Romney looked at the mandate though a Supreme Court decision that we would have disagreed with a week ago, but now for some crazy we consider the right thing to say.

If anyone has flip-flopped on this issue it is the conservative moment itself and I have no clue why beyond group think.

thuja on July 5, 2012 at 9:23 PM

If Fehrnstrom stated the conservative position on the subject, then how come Mitt had to clarify at all? You can certainly make an argument that Romney wasn’t walking back Fehrnstrom’s “gaffe,” but that’s an awfully hard sell to folks such as myself who don’t think Romney is conservative to begin with.

And by the by, I think the truly conservative position to take is one that no modern politician would probably espouse:

NULLIFY THE BASTARD

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 9:25 PM

It matters when its added to the Romney flip flop reel in August-November campaign ads.

libfreeordie on July 5, 2012 at 8:03 PM

Oh, please, libfreeordie, don’t pass this idea for a campaign strategy onto others. It will certainly demolish any chance we might have had for a Republican win.

Libfreeordie, I’ve read your comments closely and you seem very wise. And you have to admit we here at HotAir have treated you cordially and respectfully. Therefore, I think you owe us all something. So don’t pass this idea to others. The notion that Romney has not been consistent about whether Obamacare is or is not a tax is an absolute killer. If you combine an ad with this message along with another one reminding voters how Romney treated his dog Seamus, I predict a landslide for Democrats of unparalleled proportions. So don’t do it, I beg you. You owe us that much.

Burke on July 5, 2012 at 9:26 PM

If anyone has flip-flopped on this issue it is the conservative moment itself and I have no clue why beyond group think.

thuja on July 5, 2012 at 9:23 PM

No kidding..but they are too busy finding fault with everyone else to notice..

Terrye on July 5, 2012 at 9:26 PM

You almost sounded like Col. Nathan R. Jessup there for a second. :-)

TxAnn56 on July 5, 2012 at 9:21 PM

You insult me, sir. That entire monologue was written by Aaron Sorkin.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 9:23 PM

Not my monologue. I meant Jessep’s.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 9:26 PM

You insult me, sir. That entire monologue was written by Aaron Sorkin.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 9:23 PM

Then I’ll wax Jessupian. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Obama’s ouster, while tragic, probably saved lives.

TxAnn56 on July 5, 2012 at 9:27 PM

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 9:01 PM

Yeah, it’s kinda weird how conservatives Republicans are saying that the people of Massachusettes wanted socialized health care, so hey, it’s ok if Mitt went with it. There’s no end to that kind of reasoning. It can be applied to any socialist legislation. If the people wanted no parental consent to abortion, would that be cool too? Honestly, I don’t know why a conservative would want to be governor of a blue state just to rubber stamp liberal legislation. Yes, he vetoed some thing to be sure, but he’s been pretty unapologetic about socialized health care in Mass.

Dongemaharu on July 5, 2012 at 9:27 PM

Romney didn’t flip flop at all.

He said that while he personally believes it is a penalty, SCOTUS says it is a tax, so legally it is a tax. The problem here is that if Romney says HE thinks it is a tax he is agreeing the it is Constitutional.

Not a flip-flop, a distinction.

mitchellvii on July 5, 2012 at 9:28 PM

We petition our respective state legislatures to pass resolutions officially recognizing the nullification of Obamacare. I’m sorry if it rubs you the wrong way, but firstly, I believe that repealing the law lends it an aura of constitutional credibility that it should not have, and secondly, trusting Mitt Romney in any capacity as regards health care reform is a HUGE mistake.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 9:19 PM

The dude sucks, I have no confusion about that. I’m only on the Romney Wagon because he’s about freeing up our natural resources to lower manufacturing costs. The problem is Romney thinks that if he can get the national economy rolling again he can do whatever the hell he wants.

I’ve stated before, the only reason he’s running is because he is pissed Obama has his name stamped to Romney’s Healthcare bill. Romney is going to try to smash the Federal Agencies to reduce overhead costs. If he can pull that off he’s hoping to lull the populace back to sleep. Then replace Obamacare with Romneycare.

The whole thing stinks.

cajun carrot on July 5, 2012 at 9:28 PM

Not my monologue. I meant Jessep’s.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 9:26 PM

Now you tell me. I didn’t know that. Damn, and I love that movie.

TxAnn56 on July 5, 2012 at 9:28 PM

Mitt Romney is as conservative as Elton John with a new credit card.

MadisonConservative on July 5, 2012 at 9:18 PM

I love that. Can I steal it?

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 9:21 PM

The only thing the two of you ever do is criticize other conservatives and Republicans. You rarely even bother to go after Obama..you have failed to actually support anyone who can win….you just attack the Republican nominee, time and again, even though the primaries are over.

It is all about what fine conservatives you are and how everyone else just can not live up to the expectations of perfect people such as yourselves.

You use hyperbole, distortions, hysteria..whatever..it is just week after week of piss moan whine…piss moan whine.

Terrye on July 5, 2012 at 9:30 PM

Romney didn’t flip flop at all.

He said that while he personally believes it is a penalty, SCOTUS says it is a tax, so legally it is a tax. The problem here is that if Romney says HE thinks it is a tax he is agreeing the it is Constitutional.

Not a flip-flop, a distinction.

mitchellvii on July 5, 2012 at 9:28 PM

Not to nitpick here, but Aw shit. Who am I kidding. Y’all rombots are going to accuse me of nitpicking regardless. Might as well embrace it.

If Romney is saying it’s legally a tax cause CJ Roberts said so, he is okay with the SC legislating from the bench. I am not okay with this. Thanks a bunch, Mitt.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 9:30 PM

This is not a Mitt Romney site. This is a conservative politics blog, hence we have conservative commenters. Mitt Romney is as conservative as Elton John with a new credit card. Therefore, you have conservatives who note Romney’s lack of conservatism, and hence, you have criticism of Romney over said lack. Someone with the name “ManWithNoParty” should understand this. Unfortunately, having never seen you post on this site before, I don’t have any idea what your level of intellectual honesty is, so I guess I digress. Suffice to say that this is a site for conservatives to express their opinions about politics. That is what gryph is doing, and that is what you are attacking him over. We, as conservatives, have a responsibility to protect the rights of voters to criticize candidates. We do not have a responsibility to protect politicians from valid criticism. Get that straight, mmmmkay Sport?

I have posted here, but as I mentioned, only occasionally. If you haven’t see them, then you haven’t been looking, especially lately. I’m perfectly aware that this is not a Mitt Romney site. If you’ll look back in this thread, you’ll see that my comments were directed at one individual that is a supposed supporter of Mitt Romney but spends a great deal of time dumping on him. Free Speech? Absofreakinglutely. My calling out the hypocrisy as I see it? Same thing, Champ.

The fact that I’m not “recognized” by the old Guard here literally means nothing to me. I’m not here to *clink*, although if that comes about that would be fine. This is not the QOTD thread where those that have been here a long time talk about anything but the topic at hand, now is it?

I’m here for an intellectual challenge, to post Conservative ideas and rebuttals, and to get thisguy out of office. Nothing more.

Are we clear now? If you want a “Veteran Poster” only area, then you know who to speak to about that. Out

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 9:31 PM

The only thing the two of you ever do is criticize other conservatives and Republicans. You rarely even bother to go after Obama..you have failed to actually support anyone who can win….you just attack the Republican nominee, time and again, even though the primaries are over.

It is all about what fine conservatives you are and how everyone else just can not live up to the expectations of perfect people such as yourselves.

You use hyperbole, distortions, hysteria..whatever..it is just week after week of piss moan whine…piss moan whine.

Terrye on July 5, 2012 at 9:30 PM

Exsqueeze me? I’m criticizing Romney. You are criticizing me for criticizing Romney. Now who’s making this personal? Last time I checked, Romney wanted my vote to help place him in the Oval Office. Not only should that not make him immune to criticism, it ought to open him up to a higher level of scrutiny than if he was running for, say, a congressional seat from Delaware. ;-)

Let me offer you this for the butthurt, Terry.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 9:33 PM

If Fehrnstrom stated the conservative position on the subject, then how come Mitt had to clarify at all? You can certainly make an argument that Romney wasn’t walking back Fehrnstrom’s “gaffe,” but that’s an awfully hard sell to folks such as myself who don’t think Romney is conservative to begin with.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 9:25 PM

Sound arguments about how Romney is caving in too much to the leftist would interest me. It is certainly something that must be fought (except of course where I agree with the Democrats, like marriage equality). But paranoid screeds against Romney just make the conservative movement look nutcase. They do nothing to advance our overall cause of smaller government.

This alleged controversy is no more helpful to us than Birtherism.

thuja on July 5, 2012 at 9:33 PM

Romnet’s flip-flop does not matter. All that will matter is whether or not voters want to get rid of Obamacare. I also doubt Roberts’ cowardly ruling will matter to most.

If a voter wants to get rid of Obamacare there is only one chance and choice, Romney.

Whether or not Romney and the GOP will follow through on their rhetoric does not matter. If a voter is opposed to Obamacare voting for Obama is irrational.

So it will depend on how important getting rid of Obamacare is to the electorate. Romney should attack Obamacare on economic grounds.

farsighted on July 5, 2012 at 8:59 PM

You can believe the moon is made of cheese if you want.

I do not for a minute believe Romney will get rid of Romney Care on a national level. Obama Care was worth working for in Mass and is great for the nation. Romney will keep it.

Why I will not vote for him.

NoMittObama 2012.

No Establishment Republicans ever for any office.

Steveangell on July 5, 2012 at 9:33 PM

If anyone has flip-flopped on this issue it is the conservative moment itself and I have no clue why beyond group think.

thuja on July 5, 2012 at 9:23 PM

Perhaps, they flipped because it wasn’t such a good idea and they realised that. Are you arguing that, once espoused, an individual or group must forever stand by an idea, cause or position?

Please let me know how you feel about eugenics and prohibition, which were two ideas championed by Progressives. I’m sure that you are standing by those fantastic causes.

Resist We Much on July 5, 2012 at 9:34 PM

I’m here for an intellectual challenge, to post Conservative ideas and rebuttals, and to get thisguy out of office. Nothing more.

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 9:31 PM

Yet, you provide neither.

cozmo on July 5, 2012 at 9:34 PM

“Obama calls it a penalty. SCOTUS calls it a tax. But the end result is the same: less liberty and money for you. If elected president I’ll repeal it”

I’m Mitt Romney and I approve this message.

Weight of Glory on July 5, 2012 at 8:31 PM

Too bad that’s not Mitt Romney’s message. If it were, I’d be inclined to buy it.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 8:36 PM

It is Romney’s message. Erika Johnsen wrote an article about it. 4 Pinocchios for you, gryphon.

Gelsomina on July 5, 2012 at 9:34 PM

I see Romney supporters are once again making friends and influencing people.

Maybe y’all should give us the reasons why Romney is awesome instead of attacking conservatives personally for their valid criticism of the douchebag we are all going to have to vote for.

Spliff Menendez on July 5, 2012 at 9:35 PM

Proceede with Caution: Some Birthers could be Bishers.

SparkPlug on July 5, 2012 at 9:36 PM

If Romney is saying it’s legally a tax cause CJ Roberts said so, he is okay with the SC legislating from the bench. I am not okay with this. Thanks a bunch, Mitt.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 9:30 PM

For Chrisake, the entire Republican party took this position and people like you were complaining when Romney did not jump on board and say it was a tax immediately…then when he does say he accepts the Court’s decision and it is a tax, you still complain.

You are impossible.

Terrye on July 5, 2012 at 9:37 PM

Sound arguments about how Romney is caving in too much to the leftist would interest me. It is certainly something that must be fought (except of course where I agree with the Democrats, like marriage equality). But paranoid screeds against Romney just make the conservative movement look nutcase. They do nothing to advance our overall cause of smaller government.

This alleged controversy is no more helpful to us than Birtherism.

thuja on July 5, 2012 at 9:33 PM

How about this, then: “Repeal and replace” is a huge red flag. I don’t want it replaced. I want it gone. I want to go back to pre-Obamcare America. Period.

Even the idea of repealing the law lends it an aura of constitutional credibility to me that I don’t feel is warranted. The vast majority of us here would probably agree that Obamacare is unconstitutional, and that CJ Roberts’ ruling does not render it otherwise. So what recourse do we have? Nullification. Romney is implicitly agreeing that the Supreme Court can legislate from the bench, and as long as he accepts that presumption, Romney will never be the kind of constitutional conservative I’d like him to be. But he doesn’t necessarily have to be that kind of constitutional conservative for me to feel good about voting for him. As of right now, I dread November, win lose or draw.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 9:38 PM

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 9:31 PM

Having to choke down vomit while pulling the lever for Romney doesn’t make one a supporter.

You appear butthurt because we are pointing out the mountain of faults Romney has instead of sucking him off like you want us to.

Spliff Menendez on July 5, 2012 at 9:39 PM

Bill Kristol, the editors of WSJ, the egregious Phil Klein, David Brooks, Charles Krauthammer, and George Will should all shut their fat yaps until this election is over, as none of them have ever picked a winner or offered any advice of substance since this election began.

Mr. Arkadin on July 5, 2012 at 8:43 PM

These same “conservatives” have been ga-ga over Obama since 2008 and as late as January 2012 were saying that no one had a chance to beat Obama and that he was a lock for re-election. These guys are part of the MSM & they are belt-way insiders. Don’t fool yourself, they, like all the rest, want Obama re-elected. That is why they are jumping on this pretend flip-flop by Romney — and it isn’t a flip-flop, Romney said on the day of the Obamacare decision that he agreed with the dissent and agreeing with the dissent means that the federal mandate is an unconstitutional use of the Commerce Clause, not a constitutional tax. But the MSM wants to pretend somehow that agreeing with the dissent is either (1) taking Obamacare off the table and/or (2) a “flip flop” on the issue, all while they blatantly ignore the fact that (1) for the last 3 years Obama scoffed at the idea that it was a tax and then argued before the SCOTUS that it was a tax and (2) that after the decision by insisting that it is *not* a tax means that he, too, agrees with the dissent that it is unconstitutional. But Romney is the flip-flopper here. And, unfortunately, plenty of people, in this thread even, buy it because they don’t understand the opinion anymore than Obama, the beltway insiders or anyone else in the MSM does and they certainly don’t understand that agreeing with the dissent means you don’t think it is a tax, even while you are forced to acknowledge that the dissent lost and the law, as it now stands, is a tax.

But what can you expect — Romney came out on the day of the Obamacare decision and said he disagreed with it but with the decision as it stands it is clear that the only way to get rid of Obamacare is to get rid of Obama and “that what the SCOTUS failed to do on its last day in session, I will do on my first day in office if elected President” and some people on this thread still think that isn’t Romney’s position.

Dark Star on July 5, 2012 at 9:39 PM

Yet, you provide neither.

cozmo on July 5, 2012 at 9:34 PM

Really? Whatcha wanna know that hasn’t been argued against here (by you). Do tell.

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 9:39 PM

You insult me, sir. That entire monologue was written by Aaron Sorkin.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 9:23 PM

Don’t be insulted. I’m sure Sorkin stole the better parts from someone with a brain.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on July 5, 2012 at 9:40 PM

For Chrisake, the entire Republican party took this position and people like you were complaining when Romney did not jump on board and say it was a tax immediately…then when he does say he accepts the Court’s decision and it is a tax, you still complain.

You are impossible.

Terrye on July 5, 2012 at 9:37 PM

It could bebecause its CYA moment #726485 for Mitt this campaign season and therefore means nothing, like most of what he says.

Spliff Menendez on July 5, 2012 at 9:41 PM

So when did you start putting your trust in campaign promises, particularly from someone who 10 years ago called himself progressive?

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 8:43 PM

Gryphon: I would agree with Romney if he said this and that.

Another commenter: But Romney says that all the time!

Gryphon: Romney lies.

Lather, rinse, repeat. Ad nauseam.

Gelsomina on July 5, 2012 at 9:41 PM

For Chrisake, the entire Republican party took this position and people like you were complaining when Romney did not jump on board and say it was a tax immediately…then when he does say he accepts the Court’s decision and it is a tax, you still complain.

You are impossible.

Terrye on July 5, 2012 at 9:37 PM

Terry, I’m not a party man. If the entire Republican party took this position, that doesn’t make it right! And FYI, I was not complaining that Romney did not say it was a tax. I bemoaned his silence in the immediate aftermath of the ruling. Then came Fehrnstrom. And then came Romney. And with each statement issued forth from the Romney campaign, I became more and more disappointed.

For crissake, did you think that the voters who said “I’m done with choosing the lesser of two evils” were kidding in ’08? You won’t think I’m making a rational argument until and unless I end up agreeing with you, I’m sure. And trust me, the odds of that happening are absolutely astronomical.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 9:41 PM

I’m here for an intellectual challenge, …

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 9:31 PM

What side of the chicken are the feathers on?

SparkPlug on July 5, 2012 at 9:42 PM

For Chrisake, the entire Republican party took this position and people like you were complaining when Romney did not jump on board and say it was a tax immediately…then when he does say he accepts the Court’s decision and it is a tax, you still complain.

You are impossible.

Terrye on July 5, 2012 at 9:37 PM

Because it proves once again Romney is the classic flip flopper. He will say anything to get elected and has no core.

Thus you have no idea how he will actually govern. If you go by his record though he will govern much like Obama.

NoMittObama 2012

Get rid of Establishment Republicans at all levels.

Steveangell on July 5, 2012 at 9:43 PM

I’m here for an intellectual challenge, to post Conservative ideas and rebuttals, and to get thisguy out of office. Nothing more.

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 9:31 PM

Yet, you provide neither.

cozmo on July 5, 2012 at 9:34 PM

For once I agree. This guy sits here bleating about “intellectual challenge”, yet his only argument seems to be “if you don’t lick Romney’s ass in exactly my approved fashion, you’re an O-bot”. Of course, that’s a pretty old “argument”. That is, a substitute for one.

If you’ll look back in this thread, you’ll see that my comments were directed at one individual that is a supposed supporter of Mitt Romney but spends a great deal of time dumping on him. Free Speech? Absofreakinglutely. My calling out the hypocrisy as I see it? Same thing, Champ.

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 9:31 PM

Learn what “hypocrisy” means, Champ. Some people are holding their noses to vote for your squish. Now you see, that doesn’t mean they have to praise him to the skies just because they say they’re voting for him.

ddrintn on July 5, 2012 at 9:43 PM

Gryphon: I would agree with Romney if he said this and that.

Another commenter: But Romney says that all the time!

Gryphon: Romney lies.

Lather, rinse, repeat. Ad nauseam.

Gelsomina on July 5, 2012 at 9:41 PM

Romney has called for state-level nullification? He has said that passing Romneycare was ipso facto a mistake? He has gone on the record saying that he doesn’t recognize the Supreme Court’s judicial review power as constitutional? He says this stuff all the time?!

Keep molesting that chicken, rombot.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 9:43 PM

Who really cares.

JellyToast on July 5, 2012 at 9:43 PM

I see Romney supporters are once again making friends and influencing people.

Maybe y’all should give us the reasons why Romney is awesome instead of attacking conservatives personally for their valid criticism of the douchebag we are all going to have to vote for.

Spliff Menendez on July 5, 2012 at 9:35 PM

Maybe you should grow up and accept the fact that the primary is over and it is either Barack Obama or Mitt Romney.

And the whole sanctimonious little speech about being attacked might make a little more sense if you were not calling the man a douchebag when you made it.

Terrye on July 5, 2012 at 9:44 PM

it simple to me, really.

mitt can’t run on principle.

so, its about who can give the prols the most “stuff”

mitt will promise more stuff

obama is giving stuff away now.

my moneys on the guy who’s giving stuff away now.

renalin on July 5, 2012 at 9:44 PM

Having to choke down vomit while pulling the lever for Romney doesn’t make one a supporter.

You appear butthurt because we are pointing out the mountain of faults Romney has instead of sucking him off like you want us to.

Spliff Menendez on July 5, 2012 at 9:39 PM

“Butthurt”. LOL. The ultimate “I have no other argument” comment. He has a myriad of faults, as acknowledged earlier. However, why claim you’re supporting him whileconstantly beyotching about him to an audience that will change his mind not one iota!

You might want to read my earlier posts, which you obvoiusly skipped right on over.

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 9:44 PM

Student Loans are bundled into Obama Care.

Why is that?

Key West Reader on July 5, 2012 at 8:51 PM

Because as O’Really stated tonight “its for the welfare of the people”.

Why are we wondering when obvious liberals in media call themselves “independent” to worse yet, “conservative”.

riddick on July 5, 2012 at 9:45 PM

And the whole sanctimonious little speech about being attacked might make a little more sense if you were not calling the man a douchebag when you made it.

Terrye on July 5, 2012 at 9:44 PM

Hmm…time to channel Jeff Foxworthy:

If the words “rombot” and “douchebag” bother you, but the word “palinista” makes you giggle like an undersexed schoolgirl, you might be a rombot.”

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 9:46 PM

Who really cares.

JellyToast on July 5, 2012 at 9:43 PM

A lot of people. I think that’s one reason Romney’s consistently trailed Obama throughout. AP’s throwing out chum to the ‘bots.

ddrintn on July 5, 2012 at 9:49 PM

How big a deal is the Romney campaign’s tax/penalty flip-flopping?

Nice to see you on your knee’s Allpukit…….How much are the thugs paying you?????????????

dmann on July 5, 2012 at 9:49 PM

Really? Whatcha wanna know that hasn’t been argued against here (by you). Do tell.

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 9:39 PM

You would have to prove yourself at least more worthy than the average lib first…you haven’t.

cozmo on July 5, 2012 at 9:49 PM

Perhaps, they flipped because it wasn’t such a good idea and they realized that. Are you arguing that, once espoused, an individual or group must forever stand by an idea, cause or position?

Resist We Much on July 5, 2012 at 9:34 PM

You don’t understand my position. I think it is essential that we have the right to change our minds. I believe Romney’s ideas have evolved rationally in the way a person with active mind would. Contrast that to the unswerving leftism of Obama who has never seriously wrestled with any idea deeper than his decision when to admit he supports gay marriage.

Since you asked, I think that blind opposition to anything that smacks of eugenics is pretty crazy also if we desire a good future without genetic engineering. Of course, we will probably genetically engineer which will make the entire question go away.

thuja on July 5, 2012 at 9:49 PM

I see Romney supporters are once again making friends and influencing people.

Maybe y’all should give us the reasons why Romney is awesome instead of attacking conservatives personally for their valid criticism of the douchebag we are all going to have to vote for.

Spliff Menendez on July 5, 2012 at 9:35 PM

Really, what is the point in constantly dumping on him here? Are you trying to convince others NOT to vote for him? You’re not telling anyone stuff we didn’t already know…it’s almost like you and others can’t stand the fact we’ve decided the alternative is worse. You’re not exactly making friends and influencing people either, just coming across as bitter and petulant.

changer1701 on July 5, 2012 at 9:50 PM

Hmm…time to channel Jeff Foxworthy:

If the words “rombot” and “douchebag” bother you, but the word “palinista” makes you giggle like an undersexed schoolgirl, you might be a rombot.”
gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 9:46 PM

When all else fails, ridicule. Sadly typical.

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 9:50 PM

I’ll quit posting on Mitt and his shortcomings when it stops hitting nerves in his supporters. And if you think this is the only forum in which I tweak rombots, you are sadly mistaken.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 8:53 PM

Ah, now I understand! You don’t really believe that Romney is a progressive. You are just trolling all the Romney threads to get a response, just like good old csdeven was trolling the Palin threads.

Well, then we can just skip your comments.

Gelsomina on July 5, 2012 at 9:51 PM

“Butthurt”. LOL. The ultimate “I have no other argument” comment. He has a myriad of faults, as acknowledged earlier. However, why claim you’re supporting him whileconstantly beyotching about him…

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 9:44 PM

No, the ultimate “I have no other argument” argument is, “O-bot!!!!! Concern troll!!!”

Here’s an “intellectual challenge” for you, Champ. “I’ll hold my nose to vote for the guy” isn’t the same as claiming to “support” him.

ddrintn on July 5, 2012 at 9:52 PM

Not to mention the doctor shortage and that they’ll have to be imported from India or some other third world country. My GP is almost 60, has a ranch and said if this goes through, she’ll probably retire. She doesn’t want to, but said she didn’t go into medicine to become a bureaucrat. You run commercials with the very worst of the little known provisions and you’ll bring over those on the fence.

TxAnn56 on July 5, 2012 at 9:07 PM

I live in Houston much of the year, and it’s worse than that. A lot of my friends are docs and, of course, we have a world class medical center in Houston. To a man and woman among them, and a couple of them are at the top of their fields, they are already making contingency plans to exit the United States and practice elsewhere in the world, if Obamacare is not repealed. They also say that the most talented of their interns and young doctors are doing so as well, the older ones doing like your GP, retiring from medicine altogether.

And, a good number of these folks are also originally from other countries already.

What’s even worse, and it’s chilling, my friends say that Obamacare is effectively going to kill our finest medical schools since they, too, will slip into mediocrity as the best and the brightest will have little reason to be schooled here.

TXUS on July 5, 2012 at 9:52 PM

Perhaps, they flipped because it wasn’t such a good idea and they realized that. Are you arguing that, once espoused, an individual or group must forever stand by an idea, cause or position?

Resist We Much on July 5, 2012 at 9:34 PM

I forgot to mention my big problem with the conservative movement. Leftist Justices Breyer, Ginsburg, Sotomayer, Kagan, and squish Chief Justice Roberts decide the mandate is a tax, and so it is tax. We are going to let them decide our position? Really? If that’s not flip-flopping in the negative sense, I don’t know what is.

thuja on July 5, 2012 at 9:53 PM

You would have to prove yourself at least more worthy than the average lib first…you haven’t.

cozmo on July 5, 2012 at 9:49 PM

A pretty rich comment, based on the posts I’ve seen from you for months now. Ain’t my first BBQ on forums.

Anyhoo, anytime yo wanna actually answe the question rather than evade, lemme know.

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 9:54 PM

Ah, now I understand! You don’t really believe that Romney is a progressive.

Gelsomina on July 5, 2012 at 9:51 PM

Was Romney lying then, or is he lying now?

ddrintn on July 5, 2012 at 9:54 PM

Comment pages: 1 2 3 4 6