How big a deal is the Romney campaign’s tax/penalty flip-flopping?

posted at 8:01 pm on July 5, 2012 by Allahpundit

Does anyone seriously care about this? I know we’ve written a bunch of posts about it — it’s the political story du jour so we’re almost obliged — but I can’t believe there’s a single voter outside the chattering class that’s following it. Think of all the things a voter has to know just to be able to keep up:

1. Massachusetts has universal health insurance.
2. The linchpin of that insurance program is a mandate requiring people to buy coverage.
3. The program was signed into law by Mitt Romney.
4. ObamaCare is based on Massachusetts’s program.
5. States can pass mandates requiring citizens to purchase things but it’s not clear whether the federal government can do so under the Constitution.
6. The Supreme Court recently ruled that the federal government can impose mandates pursuant to its tax power but not pursuant to its power over interstate commerce.
7. Romney’s campaign spokesman, Eric Fehrnstrom, said after the Court’s decision that he believes the mandate is not a tax.
8. Mitt Romney contradicted Fehrnstrom by saying that if the Supreme Court thinks the mandate’s a tax, then it should be regarded as a tax — even if he personally disagrees with that interpretation.

How many of those facts do you think the average low-information swing voter — the group that’s going to decide this election — is aware of? One? Maybe two? Bear in mind, despite the Court ruling having been front page on every newspaper in America last week, fully 45 percent of adults said afterwards that they either didn’t know how the Court had ruled or thought that they had struck down most of ObamaCare. That’s the level of ignorance we’re dealing with here. And yet we’re now seeing dopey navel-gazing in the papers and grumbling among some prominent conservatives about whether Romney should shake up his campaign staff, even though the guy’s within three points in the poll of polls. I can accept this being a one-day story, if only because it’s the slowest week of the summer and we need something to kvetch about it. But we’re now on day four, full in the knowledge that the voters whom Mitt needs to win the election are in a de facto coma when it comes to this subject. C’mon.

Besides, if you think this is a big deal and simply must have someone to blame, why blame Romney’s staff instead of the candidate himself? They’re not the ones who made RomneyCare happen. Philip Klein:

In April 2010, just weeks after the national health care law passed, I warned that if Republicans nominated Romney in 2012, it could kill the effort to repeal Obamacare, precisely because he wouldn’t be able to credibly attack Obama on health care. It’s something that I emphasized repeatedly during the primaries and discussed in my ebook on the Romney nomination. Had Republicans nominated any other GOP candidate, right now they’d be sitting back and watching Obama and his surrogates squirm in trying to explain why the mandate was a tax for legal purposes but still didn’t violate his middle class tax pledge. Instead, Romney’s struggles to reconcile the irreconcilable are complicating things…

It’s inevitable that any Republican holding or seeking office who attacks Obamacare’s mandate as a tax will be asked whether the Massachusetts mandate signed by their own nominee is also a tax. They shouldn’t feel the need to defend Romney’s untenable position, or to squirm uncomfortably when asked. Republicans can agree with Romney on repeal without having to make excuses for what he did in Massachusetts. A good answer would be something along the lines of this: “You never find a candidate who you’re going to agree with 100 percent of the time. I disagree with mandates at both the federal and state level and don’t support the Massachusetts health care law. But I do agree with Romney that Obamacare is a disastrous law for all 50 states and that it needs to be repealed. And that’s why I support him.”

This is all going to come to a head three months from now when Obama and Romney get into a squabble at one of the debates over one guy’s mandate versus the other guy’s mandate, and the press will wet itself over whether the exchange is a gamechanger and how Obama proved he was a fightin’ Democrat after all by putting Romney on the defensive and whether Romney should have hired a different debate coach, blah blah blah blah blah. And meanwhile, 80 percent of the people watching it at home will be thinking “What are they arguing about now?

Speaking of taxes and penalties, here’s Romney suggesting that Roberts is no longer his model for a Supreme Court nominee. Exit question: Anyone think that Paul Clement won’t be nominated at the first available vacancy if Romney wins?


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meh

the new aesthetic on July 5, 2012 at 8:03 PM

It matters when its added to the Romney flip flop reel in August-November campaign ads.

libfreeordie on July 5, 2012 at 8:03 PM

Romney has GOT to get off the dime and start taking obamao apart by the seams !!!!!!!!!!!!!! God forbid we have another McCain fiasco. God Save America!

ultracon on July 5, 2012 at 8:04 PM

I guess it’s all they got…

2ipa on July 5, 2012 at 8:04 PM

It matters when its added to the Romney flip flop reel in August-November campaign ads.

libfreeordie on July 5, 2012 at 8:03 PM

They’ll look like nothing compared to Obamas…

sandee on July 5, 2012 at 8:05 PM

As long as Romney doesn’t prostitute himself for the gay vote..

meh..

Electrongod on July 5, 2012 at 8:05 PM

you’re right allah, voters won’t care much about this until debate time…the lsm moderators will give softball questions to dear leader and trounce mitt instead

cmsinaz on July 5, 2012 at 8:07 PM

I don’t see people magically supporting Obamacare because of this so no. Not that big of a deal.

It matters when its added to the Romney flip flop reel in August-November campaign ads.

That’s just it, it’s a reel where Obama’s is a feature length film.

The Notorious G.O.P on July 5, 2012 at 8:08 PM

They’ll look like nothing compared to Obamas…

sandee on July 5, 2012 at 8:05 PM

I agree with that!..:)

Dire Straits on July 5, 2012 at 8:08 PM

Irregardless,its a Burden either way!
(sarc).

canopfor on July 5, 2012 at 8:09 PM

I don’t think Romney had any other choice than to change his tune. He knows he’s wrong on the individual mandate (at least as far as 56% of the voters think), so he has to call it a tax — which it is. If the government is forcing you to pay out money, it’s a tax.

RoadRunner on July 5, 2012 at 8:09 PM

cmsinaz on July 5, 2012 at 8:07 PM

Hello..:)

Dire Straits on July 5, 2012 at 8:10 PM

2 weeks ago it would have been an outrage to suggest it is a tax, and now it’s an outrage to suggest it is now. Who cares. The real point is that the bill is a disaster, what you call it is just semantics now.

stldave on July 5, 2012 at 8:10 PM

Irregardless,its a Burden either way!
(sarc).

canopfor on July 5, 2012 at 8:09 PM

Yes a very big burden!..:)

Dire Straits on July 5, 2012 at 8:10 PM

Do you ever recall the old media calling Obama a “cash cow“?

Schadenfreude on July 5, 2012 at 8:11 PM

How big a Deal is it that Obumbler says it’s not a tax and the Supreme Court only found it Constitutional because it was a tax, but the Obumbler lawyers argued it was a tax in order to say the law is Constitutional…I think Romney is fine, when you have the Obumbler completely ruling against the will of the people!

Tbone McGraw on July 5, 2012 at 8:11 PM

* isn’t now

stldave on July 5, 2012 at 8:11 PM

Wow. More rhetorical questions than you can shake a stick at.

Dongemaharu on July 5, 2012 at 8:12 PM

Romney has taken up the Obamacare Tax cudgel and that’s all that matters from now through the debates. As long as he uses it.

de rigueur on July 5, 2012 at 8:12 PM

stldave on July 5, 2012 at 8:10 PM

Preach it!..:)

Dire Straits on July 5, 2012 at 8:12 PM

It matters when its added to the Romney flip flop reel in August-November campaign ads.
libfreeordie on July 5, 2012 at 8:03 PM

Does it matter as much as Obama’s “flip flops” on Immigration and Gay Marriage?

No?? Of course not. Nothing matters to you leftist lying hypocrites except lording over the rest of us.

jawkneemusic on July 5, 2012 at 8:12 PM

Palin!!

3,000 posts, baby.

BacaDog on July 5, 2012 at 8:13 PM

1. Massachusetts has universal health insurance.

No it doesn’t. VERMONT does, but Mass doesn’t. And by universal I mean state health insurance that covers everyone.

But in any case,

1. A state DOES have the constitutional authority for an insurance mandate, the federal government doesn’t.

2. The people of Mass. WANTED their plan, the people of the US did NOT want this plan.

crosspatch on July 5, 2012 at 8:13 PM

The really important thing that comes to mind in regards to the -flip-flops – is that when the Mrs. asks if I want eggs scrambled or sunny side up and I say sunny side up and then in the process of preparing them, the yolk breaks and I gotta decide on scrambled or just flat in a sandwich.

News2Use on July 5, 2012 at 8:13 PM

They’ll look like nothing compared to Obamas…

sandee on July 5, 2012 at 8:05 PM

Speaking of which, have you seen this?

Frustrated Megyn Kelly Calls Out Guest Who Refuses to Address Evidence of Obama’s Flip-Flop on Obamacare ‘Tax’

Flora Duh on July 5, 2012 at 8:14 PM

You know the more time passes the more I like this Roberts decision. I know Ill get killed for that.

Also if Mitt loses look on the bright side no more establishment.

boogaleesnots on July 5, 2012 at 8:14 PM

you’re right allah, voters won’t care much about this until debate time…the lsm moderators will give softball questions to dear leader and trounce mitt instead

cmsinaz on July 5, 2012 at 8:07 PM

cmsinaz:Correct you are,we have the GOP Primary Liberal Formats,
as a political taste of yet to come,er,sumpin like dat!:)

canopfor on July 5, 2012 at 8:14 PM

It doesn’t matter what you call it. It’s more of my money paid to the government for a system that will deliver less health care than I have now.

The Wild Duck on July 5, 2012 at 8:18 PM

I heard a lawyer explaining to another lawyer on Tuesday that the court split on the inapplicability of the Commerce Clause was 5-4. Neither one really knew but they jointly decided that was right.

If these folks can’t keep up (and these are people who supposedly follow these things), how can we expect the general public to keep up. What they will hear is the “Romney did the same thing in Massachusetts….” theme. Over and over.

This is modern politics. Any explanation that takes more than a very short sentence (a phrase or a slogan is even better) is wasted. (Great example, Kerry’s “I was for it before I was against it (sic)” line and the ad nauseam explanation that went with it.)

The 8 point list above doesn’t stand a chance.

IndieDogg on July 5, 2012 at 8:18 PM

The flip flops/pivots/mind changes are getting pretty difficult to either attack or defend between these two candidates. For every reel one can put up the other can do the same. We’re left with two candidates who “evolve” on issues. I’ll take my chances with the one who “evolves” toward Consrevative rather than the one who has pivoted (read always leaned this way)toward our National demise.

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 8:20 PM

There is no sentence that can be spoken or written that will not be misunderstood.
Oh and to address a stupid point … when it comes to flip-flopping President Present, King Putt the Once, Preezie Choombro, Dear Liar will be absolutely crushed by the video comparisions of his PROMISES and DELIVERIES.
If the DNC and President Downgrade go there, they will reach for the ring and pull back a bloody stump. Everyone (except perhaps McCain) is net-savvy.

I ask again, let us compare college transcripts. The sooner the better. And I’ll bet Romney has a social security number from Michigan where he actually LIVED. Obamugabe? Connecticut … really? ANYONE care to explain THAT?

Missilengr on July 5, 2012 at 8:20 PM

Does anyone seriously care about this? I know we’ve written a bunch of posts about it — it’s the political story du jour so we’re almost obliged — but I can’t believe there’s a single voter outside the chattering class that’s following it.

There isn’t. The chattering class is obsessed with the classification of what the individual mandate is. The rest of America is pissed about the substance of it, regardless of what it’s called.

Stoic Patriot on July 5, 2012 at 8:20 PM

We are going to lie ourselves into oblivion….

cajun carrot on July 5, 2012 at 8:21 PM

I don’t want him to flip-flop at all. However, if he’s going to flip-flop on anything related to ObamaTaxAct – I would rather it be this than repealing the SOB.

gophergirl on July 5, 2012 at 8:22 PM

Hopey/Changey Flippy/Floppy!
____________________________

The Top 10 Obama Flip Flops by Ari Fleischer
by Republican Security Council
on Tuesday, December 6, 2011 at 3:20pm
*************************************·

Voted against increasing the debt limit; then supported raising it.

Campaigned against the Bush tax cuts; then extended all of them.

Promised to cut the deficit in half by the end of his first term; then proposed trillion dollar deficits.

Vowed the unemployment rate would be below 8% if his stimulus was passed; but then it broke 10%.

Promised shovel ready jobs; then admitted they weren’t shovel ready.

Said if you like your health plan you can keep it; but then threw seniors off Medicare Plus and employers are now saying they’ll dump people onto the public exchange.

Promised to have health care negotiations on live TV, but then reversed himself.

Indicated Bush violated the Constitution; then carried out warrantless wiretaps, indefinite detentions, secret renditions, quadrupled drone attacks, and kept Guantanamo Bay open. Voted against the Patriot Act, but then supported its extension.

Said lobbyists wouldn’t work in the White House; then gave them waivers to work there.

Vowed to take public financing for his 2008 campaign; then refused public financing when he realized he would receive more money without it.
=================

http://www.facebook.com/notes/republican-security-council/the-top-10-obama-flip-flops-by-ari-fleischer/171275079638338

canopfor on July 5, 2012 at 8:22 PM

MITT/PITT 2012!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/brad-pitts-mother-pens-anti-345647

AmeriCuda on July 5, 2012 at 8:22 PM

MItt’s mistake is not admitting that romneycare was/is a mistake. We’re a forgiving lot but Mit does not trust us. However we reap what we sow no matter. I’ll just sit back and let all the mitten boosters explain how this will work. Yech!!

rik on July 5, 2012 at 8:23 PM

It matters when its added to the Romney flip flop reel in August-November campaign ads.

libfreeordie on July 5, 2012 at 8:03 PM

Sheesh nimrod you’re predictable. Nothing original with you.

CW on July 5, 2012 at 8:23 PM

What…Mitt’s a serial killer? Don’t care….still voting for him over Oduma$$.

msupertas on July 5, 2012 at 8:24 PM

Romney needs only this line to win:

“Barack Obama promised not to raise taxes on the middle class, but ended up raising taxes on both the middle class and the poor with ObamaCare.”

The problem is, I don’t know if he has the balls to use that line. His staff sure seems f**king worthless, as well.

MadisonConservative on July 5, 2012 at 8:25 PM

Denying that it is a tax is simply denying reality. It is, legally, a tax. Period. Romney just looks delusional trying to say otherwise. I wouldn’t call it a flip flop, but finally admitting reality. He needs to stop defending and worrying about his MA legacy and worry about winning the presidency (in other words, he should disavow Romneycare – he should have done it a year ago!). If that is, in fact, what he wants to do.

besser tot als rot on July 5, 2012 at 8:26 PM

This is the biggest steaming pile o’poop story I’ve seen in quite a while.

msmveritas on July 5, 2012 at 8:27 PM

yawn

jaime on July 5, 2012 at 8:27 PM

How many of those facts do you think the average low-information swing voter — the group that’s going to decide this election — is aware of? One? Maybe two?

Precisely why the only thing about Obamacare that needs to be hammered is how bad it is going to be for every individual’s health care, health care choices, and their pocket books. And, it wouldn’t hurt to add as an aside, “Oh, by the way, folks, it’s also the largest tax increase in human history.”

TXUS on July 5, 2012 at 8:28 PM

…flip flop or outright lies…mmmmm!…who am I going to go for?

KOOLAID2 on July 5, 2012 at 8:28 PM

MItt’s mistake is not admitting that romneycare was/is a mistake. We’re a forgiving lot but Mit does not trust us. However we reap what we sow no matter. I’ll just sit back and let all the mitten boosters explain how this will work. Yech!!

rik on July 5, 2012 at 8:23 PM

He doesn’t even have to go so far as admit that it was a mistake! He just needs to say that it is bad policy, but that it was the best that he could do in MA because the Dems were going to override his veto and they were probably going to end up with single payer otherwise (or whatever). I have no clue why he feels the need to defend it as objectively good policy. That argument is in fundamental contradiction with his individualism and free market pitch.

besser tot als rot on July 5, 2012 at 8:30 PM

AP’s pessimism meter pegged.

Fish on July 5, 2012 at 8:30 PM

“Obama calls it a penalty. SCOTUS calls it a tax. But the end result is the same: less liberty and money for you. If elected president I’ll repeal it”

I’m Mitt Romney and I approve this message.

Weight of Glory on July 5, 2012 at 8:31 PM

How big a deal is the Romney campaign’s tax/penalty flip-flopping?

Well, Phil Klein, Bill Kristol, and the WSJ think it’s a big f*cking deal!

Big enough for Riomney to have lost the election already over it.

So I guess we can all pack our bags and go home.

Mr. Arkadin on July 5, 2012 at 8:31 PM

…flip flop or outright lies…mmmmm!…who am I going to go for?

KOOLAID2 on July 5, 2012 at 8:28 PM

Barrack “Fore Pinocchios” Obama

Electrongod on July 5, 2012 at 8:32 PM

2. The people of Mass. WANTED their plan, the people of the US did NOT want this plan.

crosspatch on July 5, 2012 at 8:13 PM

The pepole of Inside 495 wanted romneycare not us out in western MA.
this is the plight of the country.

rik on July 5, 2012 at 8:32 PM

But in any case,

1. A state DOES have the constitutional authority for an insurance mandate, the federal government doesn’t.

2. The people of Mass. WANTED their plan, the people of the US did NOT want this plan.

crosspatch on July 5, 2012 at 8:13 PM

Assuming, arguendo, that your statements are true, they don’t make Romneycare good policy. It’s not.

besser tot als rot on July 5, 2012 at 8:33 PM

…flip flop or outright lies…mmmmm!…who am I going to go for?

KOOLAID2 on July 5, 2012 at 8:28 PM

Barrack “Fore Pinocchios” Obama

Electrongod on July 5, 2012 at 8:32 PM

Forgot the sarc on that..

Sorry KOOLAID2

Electrongod on July 5, 2012 at 8:33 PM

Well, Phil Klein, Bill Kristol, and the WSJ think it’s a big f*cking deal!

Mr. Arkadin on July 5, 2012 at 8:31 PM

It does tend to make you look bad when you refuse to admit an obvious fact.

besser tot als rot on July 5, 2012 at 8:34 PM

First of all we all can tell that it means a whole bunch to AP as we get blessed by yet another thread dedicated to it. It doesn’t stack up to a hill of beans however…which is the same hill AP gets most his stories. The FF came against an advisor so the charge is weak to begin with. I suggest people go listen to the entire Romney response on CBS this morning. Seemed to handle things just fine. Also seems to me that having similar amount of threads on this as Obama’s (and his minion’s) “Its not a tax” statements is the real story here. That being that Allahpussy is not a huge Romney fan.

whatfur on July 5, 2012 at 8:35 PM

1. A state DOES have the constitutional authority for an insurance mandate, the federal government doesn’t.

2. The people of Mass. WANTED their plan, the people of the US did NOT want this plan.

crosspatch on July 5, 2012 at 8:13 PM

And? What in the bloody blue hell does that have to do with whether it’s conservative or not?

It’s like if a Republican governor wanted to raise the state income tax to 50% across the board. We’d be howling from the rooftops, and “But the Dems wanted to raise it to 60%!” would be a laughable argument in favor of the Republican plan. That’s essentially what we’re being asked to believe in relation to Romneycare. IT IS NOT conservative and MITT IS NOT conservative. Period. Unless, that is, principles no longer mean anything to people that call themselves conservative.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 8:35 PM

Romney needs only this line to win:

“Barack Obama promised not to raise taxes on the middle class, but ended up raising taxes on both the middle class and the poor with ObamaCare.”

The problem is, I don’t know if he has the balls to use that line. His staff sure seems f**king worthless, as well.

MadisonConservative on July 5, 2012 at 8:25 PM

But Romney did as well, so I am not sure this line of attack is going to work. RECORD WISE, there is not that much difference between the two, main reason Hussein wanted Romney all along.

Anyway. Like I said, w’re screwed either way as I don’t see Romney repealing, he;ll find a way to flip-flop yet again and same as Hussein will come up with all sorts of excuses, “Obama did it!”.

Unless we end up with strong leaders in both House and Senate who will be more than willing to grab Romney by the scruff of the neck and drive him on I don’t think there will be any changes even if Romney wins.

So far, everything is going per Hussein’s campaign script they devised over a year ago. Everything.

riddick on July 5, 2012 at 8:36 PM

It matters when its added to the Romney flip flop reel in August-November campaign ads.

libfreeordie on July 5, 2012 at 8:03 PM

We have a reel ready to roll. How about <this to start? Shall we follow that up with all those memorable debate moments he shared with Hillary? I say bring your flip flop reel. In almost 4 years Obama has flipped or flopped his way to complete failure. I would love to see that debate.

msmveritas on July 5, 2012 at 8:36 PM

“Obama calls it a penalty. SCOTUS calls it a tax. But the end result is the same: less liberty and money for you. If elected president I’ll repeal it”

I’m Mitt Romney and I approve this message.

Weight of Glory on July 5, 2012 at 8:31 PM

Too bad that’s not Mitt Romney’s message. If it were, I’d be inclined to buy it.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 8:36 PM

Meh, I’ve already had to explain to one of my “low info” “Conservative” friends the difference between a state law, and sweeping, federal regulation. This was after he started ranting about how “Bad Romney was going to lose”. Apparently, alot of people are unaware that the 10th amendment is a thing in this country.

As far as I’m concerned, that should be the end of it right there. It doesn’t matter if Masscare is a bad law for Massachusetts, that’s Massachusetts’ problem. Obamatax is the largest tax increase on the American people…ever. That should shut people up.

1984 in real life on July 5, 2012 at 8:36 PM

“Well, America had to vote for Obama before they knew what was in him.”

/Marxist Commie

Key West Reader on July 5, 2012 at 8:37 PM

besser tot als rot on July 5, 2012 at 8:30 PM

He’s past the pint of no return. If he does it now he look as smart as his advisors. What the french word for dumbass??

rik on July 5, 2012 at 8:37 PM

this a story tailor made for barry so that he can distract people from the real msg.

i am deeply unimpressed with Klein patting himself on the back about how ‘prescient’ he was, rather than helping the conservative movement and the country.

mitt has much bigger fish to fry…and klein, et al. haven’t helped at all. what conservatives have to do is to create the tools to argue the intellectual/emotional case of the sobbing woman story from OH today]

if conservatives think that this was a one-off occurrence they are stupider than i thought…here’s clue, barry’s rope line in going to be filled with sobbing people from now until november..okay?

also, there’s no excuse for pundits not to tell people what is in store with barry.care.

althouse had a good piece today about the medicaid. Klein, et al. need to be smart, not just chattering jaybirds of the beltway

this is serious s*** guys…time to get our game face on

r keller on July 5, 2012 at 8:37 PM

It’s like if a Republican governor wanted to raise the state income tax to 50% across the board.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 8:35 PM

That would be conservative. Because it is constitutional. And if it was only on the top 49% it would be good policy too because “the people” (i.e., the mob, or bare majority) wanted it.

besser tot als rot on July 5, 2012 at 8:38 PM

MItt’s mistake is not admitting that romneycare was/is a mistake.

rik on July 5, 2012 at 8:23 PM

On this I believe that too many people are ignorant on the differences between what their states can do, and what the Feds can do. The states pledge allegiance to the United States based on the agreement that they were not signing their own death sentences, that they were still empowered to do what they deemed necessary to promote the welfare of the citizens of their states. ObamaTax, and Roberts’ ruling, have broken the promise that our Federal Union promised.

While we disagree with Romney on the fact that he has promoted a mandate to purchase insurance in his state, he is right in the fact that the state has the right to impose that mandate, for the welfare of his people. The states did not agree to The Constitution so that The Federal Government could tell us how to operate our own states.

What the Federal Government did, by using a two pronged attack via mandate or tax, is throw shit at the wall and see which one would stick. Their argument that Interstate Commerce grants them the power to do this is crap because they have done everything within their power to make sure this would not be interstate commerce.

Their argument that their Taxation power grants them the power to do this is garbage, as this administration promised no taxes on the lower/middle class. Roberts’ ruling is garbage because now the Federal Government can supposedly tax me for not doing something they deem I should do. ObamaTax is a sugar-coated pill to promote just that. The whole point of our Federal Government is to promote commerce between the states, and provide for the defense.

This whole thing sucks. The Federal Government is now working against the states openly to advance an agenda that is doomed to fail.

TL;DR: The Feds are screwing our rights as a State, Romney is right even though we don’t agree with him.

cajun carrot on July 5, 2012 at 8:38 PM

Too bad that’s not Mitt Romney’s message. If it were, I’d be inclined to buy it.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 8:36 PM

Really? Does he have to say “I’ll repeal it” another 30+ times for you to believe him? Or will the 100 times he’s stated that already be enough?

1984 in real life on July 5, 2012 at 8:39 PM

1984 in real life on July 5, 2012 at 8:36 PM

precisely

r keller on July 5, 2012 at 8:39 PM

The splitting of hair and the ending debates serve the purpose of generating blog traffic and enable bloggers and pundits to feel self-important.

bayview on July 5, 2012 at 8:39 PM

So, if I understand all this, it’s become controversial how Romney and his campaign interpret the most confusing, unpopular, and expensive piece of legislation in decades, crafted by democrats and signed into law by…Obama? Non-issue methinks. But if I’m Romney, I just respond: “You’re asking the wrong guy about this, it’s his disaster, not mine. Call it a tax, a penalty, a unicorn, who cares. I’m just going to repeal the f**ker.”

Erich66 on July 5, 2012 at 8:40 PM

It does tend to make you look bad when you refuse to admit an obvious fact.
besser tot als rot on July 5, 2012 at 8:34 PM

You are right. And the fact that Bo won’t admit it’s a tax is just wrong on his part.

roxi618 on July 5, 2012 at 8:40 PM

He needs to have a Tim Russert white board that has bullet points of the most onerous provisions. No one ever mentions the 3.8% medicare tax on the sale of your house. Or how businesses with over 50 employees have to have lactation rooms for breast feeding mothers. Or the 40% tax on dividend income. Of course this doesn’t affect moochers since we provide the dividends. Newt wasn’t my favoite but he would’ve hammered Obama into a disgusting pulp by now. For the love of God, grow a spine.

TxAnn56 on July 5, 2012 at 8:40 PM

Romney needs only this line to win:

“Barack Obama promised not to raise taxes on the middle class, but ended up raising taxes on both the middle class and the poor with ObamaCare.”

The problem is, I don’t know if he has the balls to use that line. His staff sure seems f**king worthless, as well.

MadisonConservative on July 5, 2012 at 8:25 PM

Here’s what I’d like to hear Romney say in relation to Obamacare:

Whether Obamacare is itself is a penalty or a tax matters little to me. My experience with health care reform in Massachusetts has led me to believe that Obamacare is the wrong way to go about it, but beyond even that, I believe there is no constitutional authority for its existence. John Roberts made the mistake of believing that he could square the circle in legislating from the bench, and because I reject that notion out-of-hand on principle, I trust the individual states and their respective legislatures to handle the situation however they see fit. I believe most will come to the same conclusion that I have, and when they do, Obamacare will wither on the vine without further government intervention.

“..without further government intervention..” Now there’s a phrase you don’t hear from politicians EVER.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 8:40 PM

So, if I understand all this, it’s become controversial how Romney and his campaign interpret the most confusing, unpopular, and expensive piece of legislation in decades, crafted by democrats and signed into law by…Obama? Non-issue methinks. But if I’m Romney, I just respond: “You’re asking the wrong guy about this, it’s his disaster, not mine. Call it a tax, a penalty, a unicorn, who cares. I’m just going to repeal the f**ker.”

Erich66 on July 5, 2012 at 8:40 PM

Can’t argue with a word of that, except to add:

“…and if I don’t have congressional support in repealing this awful monstrosity of an unconstitutional boondoggle, I fully support the right of the individual states to nullify it as they see fit.”

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 8:42 PM

Really? Does he have to say “I’ll repeal it” another 30+ times for you to believe him? Or will the 100 times he’s stated that already be enough?

1984 in real life on July 5, 2012 at 8:39 PM

So when did you start putting your trust in campaign promises, particularly from someone who 10 years ago called himself progressive?

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 8:43 PM

This entire issue is completely misguided.

The mandate is not a tax.

Roberts called it a tax to save Obamacare.

The mandate is in fact a penalty, as originally conceived, and therefore unconstitutional under the Commerce Clause, as noted in the case’s conservative dissent.

This was also noted by Roberts before he waved his judicial magic wand and transformed legislative straw into gold.

Conservatives should not be calling it a tax now, and agreeing with Roberts’s atrocious ruling.

Conservatives should be attacking Obama for flip-flopping and lying, for the underhanded process by which his monstrosity of a bill got passed, and for not owning up to the manner in which his bill was declared Constitutional.

Team Romney’s position is the correct one.

Romney, by stating that, since Roberts calls the mandate a tax it must be a tax, is demonstrating the correct snarky response.

Bill Kristol, the editors of WSJ, the egregious Phil Klein, David Brooks, Charles Krauthammer, and George Will should all shut their fat yaps until this election is over, as none of them have ever picked a winner or offered any advice of substance since this election began.

Mr. Arkadin on July 5, 2012 at 8:43 PM

“..without further government intervention..” Now there’s a phrase you don’t hear from politicians EVER.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 8:40 PM

And a phrase that would be mighty awkward coming from the lips of Mitt Romney.

MadisonConservative on July 5, 2012 at 8:43 PM

cajun carrot on July 5, 2012 at 8:38 PM

Out here in the berkshires we don’t drive 45mph on a coutry road in the winter even though the sign says we can.

rik on July 5, 2012 at 8:44 PM

It’s like if a Republican governor wanted to raise the state income tax to 50% across the board.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 8:35 PM

That would be conservative. Because it is constitutional. And if it was only on the top 49% it would be good policy too because “the people” (i.e., the mob, or bare majority) wanted it.

besser tot als rot on July 5, 2012 at 8:38 PM

Dude! Get your head out of your ass! It would be constitutional for a Republican governor to decide to tax all personal and corporate income at 100%! You really think that everything that is “constitutional” is conservative in-principle?! Is that all that conservatism is reduced to nowadays? You as much as admitted here you don’t give two shits about liberty…

/RantOff

And I hope to God you forgot to put your sarc tag in.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 8:45 PM

Bear in mind, despite the Court ruling having been front page on every newspaper in America last week, fully 45 percent of adults said afterwards that they either didn’t know how the Court had ruled or thought that they had struck down most of ObamaCare. That’s the level of ignorance we’re dealing with here.

Don’t know if I’d attribute it so simply to ignorance. I think it says more about how many people these days are tuning out the news. And, as to some of that 45%, maybe a good portion of them might just be telling the pollsters what they wanted to happen with Obamacare, i.e., most of it struck down.

TXUS on July 5, 2012 at 8:45 PM

that was a pretty good interview…the fact that she was lost as to what states rights are it the most telling thing I saw. He is clearly a smart guy who has some mass stuck on him.

tomas on July 5, 2012 at 8:45 PM

On this I believe that too many people are ignorant on the differences between what their states can do, and what the Feds can do. The states pledge allegiance to the United States based on the agreement that they were not signing their own death sentences, that they were still empowered to do what they deemed necessary to promote the welfare of the citizens of their states. ObamaTax, and Roberts’ ruling, have broken the promise that our Federal Union promised.

cajun carrot on July 5, 2012 at 8:38 PM

Why is it that so many simply refuse to understand one simple thing about RomneyCare. Yes, it was passed by a liberal governor in a liberal state. Great. That is where the story should end.

BUT. IT. DOES. NOT.

Since every tax paying citizen in the other 49 states is ALSO PAYING FOR RomneyCare, to the tune of more than $500 MILLION per year and counting as support for the deficit it is generating.

SO, no it doesn’t matter if morons on MA elected to pass this law onto themselves. Not to them. But to us, the rest of us who now have to subsidize it.

Are you people for real?

riddick on July 5, 2012 at 8:46 PM

Roberts called the mandate a tax as an excuse to uphold it as constitutional. That is the only reason we are talking about this.

Roberts also said it was not a tax when ruling about it under the Anti-Injunction Act.

None of Roberts opinions are legally binding.

So basically it doesn’t matter what it is called.

However, if Romney and the GOP can get some political mileage out of Obama’s blatant hypocrisy on the tax-penalty issue they should certainly do that.

Also, we should remember that four justices were ready to toss all of Obamacare, including the one everyone was worried about, Kennedy. We should remember that Roberts was ready to do that too. Instead he changed his vote at the 11th hour and threw that golden opportunity away. IMO is was an act of judicial cowardice.

We have a coward who caves to left wing pressure as a Supreme Court Chief Justice. We are stuck with him for the next 20 years. That is as bad as the ruling.

The issue is Roberts, and not whether the mandate is a tax or a penalty.

farsighted on July 5, 2012 at 8:46 PM

On this I believe that too many people are ignorant on the differences between what their states can do, and what the Feds can do.

cajun carrot on July 5, 2012 at 8:38 PM

We’re not ignorant on what the states can do. We know that their police powers are clearly stronger than the federal government’s. The fact that a state government can do something does not make it good!!!

besser tot als rot on July 5, 2012 at 8:47 PM

Bill Kristol, the editors of WSJ, the egregious Phil Klein, David Brooks, Charles Krauthammer, and George Will should all shut their fat yaps until this election is over, as none of them have ever picked a winner or offered any advice of substance since this election began.

Mr. Arkadin on July 5, 2012 at 8:43 PM

Well, they accurately predicted what a great thing the Arab Spring was!

Oh, wait.

Key West Reader on July 5, 2012 at 8:47 PM

None of Roberts opinions are legally binding.

farsighted on July 5, 2012 at 8:46 PM

Are you friggin’ kidding me?

besser tot als rot on July 5, 2012 at 8:48 PM

Too bad that’s not Mitt Romney’s message. If it were, I’d be inclined to buy it.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 8:36 PM

This is a one time post from someone who is more of a lurker than a poster here at HG. Please treat it as such. That stated…:

Your constant dumping on a candidate who you’ve already stated that you will vote for in the General gets really freaking old. You clutter up any thread which mentions Mitt with dozens of posts that are basically worthless to the central cause of geting the current TOTUS in Chief out of office.

He’ll get you vote, as you state, but you post here constanly and incessantly about what’s wrong with the guy, under the guise of “keeping him honest”. News flash, Mitt doesn’t wate the time to read the blather at HA comment section, nor do many of if any of his staffers. You wanna “keep him honest”? Get involved in his campaign in whatever manner available to you. If not, this is just a platform for you to continue beyotching for the next 4.5 years with what you feel is a “Get Out of Responsibility” free card.

Mmmmkay, Sport?! Be well.

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 8:49 PM

And I hope to God you forgot to put your sarc tag in.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 8:45 PM

Thought the sarcasm dripping off of the post meant that I didn’t need it :)

besser tot als rot on July 5, 2012 at 8:50 PM

The fact that a state government can do something does not make it good!!!

besser tot als rot on July 5, 2012 at 8:47 PM

Thanks for stating the obvious.

Its the difference that separates conservatives from liberals: not the fact that something can be done, its whether it should be done.

riddick on July 5, 2012 at 8:50 PM

Every first friday of the month when the prior months unemployment rate is announced will dominate.

It’s the economy.

gerrym51 on July 5, 2012 at 8:51 PM

The people that bish, those bishers that do all the bishing will betray you.

Or perhaps they get you to betray yourself.

SparkPlug on July 5, 2012 at 8:51 PM

Student Loans are bundled into Obama Care.

Why is that?

Key West Reader on July 5, 2012 at 8:51 PM

mmmm tasty begs-the-question pap. again.

so much real, serious news to discuss. Yet repeatedly Hot Air serves up this gossipmonger -level garbage.

rayra on July 5, 2012 at 8:52 PM

Your constant dumping on a candidate who you’ve already stated that you will vote for in the General gets really freaking old. You clutter up any thread which mentions Mitt with dozens of posts that are basically worthless to the central cause of geting the current TOTUS in Chief out of office.

He’ll get you vote, as you state, but you post here constanly and incessantly about what’s wrong with the guy, under the guise of “keeping him honest”. News flash, Mitt doesn’t wate the time to read the blather at HA comment section, nor do many of if any of his staffers. You wanna “keep him honest”? Get involved in his campaign in whatever manner available to you. If not, this is just a platform for you to continue beyotching for the next 4.5 years with what you feel is a “Get Out of Responsibility” free card.

Mmmmkay, Sport?! Be well.

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 8:49 PM

I’ll quit posting on Mitt and his shortcomings when it stops hitting nerves in his supporters. And if you think this is the only forum in which I tweak rombots, you are sadly mistaken.

As for my “responsibility” for Obama’s re-election,it begins and ends with my choice at the ballot box. You can bet your sweet ass cheeks I will loudly and often say “I didn’t vote for this, and I would have nominated someone else” if it comes down to it, as is my right as an American citizen, and my privilege as a poster here until such time as an admin sees fit to revoke it.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 8:53 PM

You know the more time passes the more I like this Roberts decision.

boogaleesnots on July 5, 2012 at 8:14 PM

That’s odd. Have you actually read it? Because if you had you would realize it makes no logical sense. Or do you mean you like it because of the potential political consequences?

happytobehere on July 5, 2012 at 8:53 PM

News flash, Mitt doesn’t wate the time to read the blather at HA comment section, nor do many of if any of his staffers.

ManWithNoParty on July 5, 2012 at 8:49 PM

Hey, Bub. You don’t have to read it either, so quit your whining.

besser tot als rot on July 5, 2012 at 8:53 PM

And I hope to God you forgot to put your sarc tag in.

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 8:45 PM

Thought the sarcasm dripping off of the post meant that I didn’t need it :)

besser tot als rot on July 5, 2012 at 8:50 PM

My apologies for the unseemly rant, then. LOL

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 8:54 PM

So when did you start putting your trust in campaign promises, particularly from someone who 10 years ago called himself progressive?

gryphon202 on July 5, 2012 at 8:43 PM

Well, Obama certainly isn’t making any promises of repeal. Guess I’ll go with the guy who is.

10 Years ago, I was pro choice, and thought Communism was kind of a cool idea if implemented properly. People change.

1984 in real life on July 5, 2012 at 8:54 PM

Well frankly, I don’t think Romney’s choice of words is going to push a significant amount of people to magically flip view points about TaxCare.

What I DO think it’s going to do however, is make those of us on the right who aren’t exactly too thrilled about Romney, even less liking of him. Frankly to me, it reeks of more Romney flip-flopping and flirting with his on the record liberal view points when he was Gov.

Razgriez on July 5, 2012 at 8:55 PM

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