Team Romney: No way are we declaring a “ceasefire” on health care

posted at 7:01 pm on July 3, 2012 by Allahpundit

The inevitable reassurance after Eric Fehrnstrom’s “not a tax” soundbite kicked off a new round of anxiety over Romney. When Allen West is on Fox News in primetime telling conservatives that it might be time for some new presidential campaign staff, you know the moment has come for damage control.

So is the Romney campaign, in fact, declaring a “cease-fire” on Obamacare? No, no, no, says Romney spokesman Ryan Williams. “From our perspective, Obamacare has been and will continue to be a central issue in the campaign,” says Williams. “It presents voters with a bright line that divides the two candidates. Gov. Romney is going to repeal Obamacare and President Obama is going to keep it. There is a clear choice in November.”…

Williams notes that Romney made a public statement, shortly after the Supreme Court decision was announced, pledging his continued determination to repeal the health care law. In addition, Romney’s “Day One” commercials, which prominently feature the promise to repeal Obamacare, are still playing in several states. The campaign also released a web ad after the Supreme Court decision, promising to keep up the Obamacare fight. It also made regular announcements on the amount of money the campaign raised from supporters who oppose the Supreme Court ruling. And Romney’s campaign website, MittRomney.com, is filled with emphatic promises to repeal Obamacare.

So much for National Journal’s “ceasefire” speculation this morning — although I do think Team Mitt expects it’ll be roundly forgiven by the right for letting this issue slip during the campaign so long as their chances of winning are increasing. If those horrible new manufacturing numbers signal a wider economic downturn and end up sending Romney out to, say, a consistent four-point lead, no one’s going to be clamoring for him to shift his messaging from the economy to a battle o’ the mandates. A few lines about O-Care in his stump speech will suffice. The only way in which this ends up center stage, I think, is if (a) Obama and Romney get into an extended “ObamaCare vs. RomneyCare” exchange at the debates, when health care will assuredly come up, or (b) if the economy surprises everyone and starts to grow faster, forcing Mitt to come up with a Plan B. ObamaCare — or ObamaTax, if Team Mitt is willing to embrace that argument — is a logical fallback plan, but in light of Fehrnstrom’s answer last night, it looks like the Romney campaign wouldn’t at all be comfortable fighting that fight. They can do it if they have to by focusing on the cost, rationing, etc, but my hunch is that they think public opinion’s already more or less cemented on this. (The fact that the needles haven’t moved much in the post-SCOTUS polls seems to confirm that suspicion.) If Obama’s leading by four in September thanks to an economic rebound, it’s hard to believe that the thousandth iteration of “one-size-fits-all health-care plans are bad” will make up the difference. (If the public believed that, they wouldn’t be so keen on Medicare, right?)

All of which is to say, the “ObamaCare = ObamaTax” argument might be the only thing left to say about the program that the public hasn’t heard before (much) and which might actually move the needle. Is Romney’s team willing to embrace it? Stephen Hayes urges him to bite the bullet:

It’s inconceivable that at least some of the campaign this fall will not focus on the differences between what Obama did at the federal level and what Romney did in Massachusetts, with the Obama campaign seeking to obscure those differences and Romney trying to accentuate them. Why not call it a tax and include those differences in that debate?…

“Romney is quickly proving himself to be what some of us expected, very reactionary without a clear alternative to Obamacare,” said one Republican congressman. “The American people want and need the truth from him. Romneycare was both legal and a failure at the state level. Romney should just come clean.”

“It doesn’t quite matter whether Romney calls this a tax, a penalty, or a potato. Voters will call it a tax and so will every other Republican candidate running for every other office,” [a Republican strategist] says. “It will be the most popular attack ad in Senate and House campaigns. Much like the president resisted the term Obamacare before he embraced it, we are two months away from even Romney calling it a tax. Gravity cannot be suspended.”

Is that the Hail Mary if Romney ends up trailing with only a few weeks to go — telling America that he’s learned the hard way what ambitious mandate-driven health-care programs can do and urging it to repent while it still has time, like some Ghost of Health-Care Christmas Future? Can’t imagine Team Mitt would be eager to run on a “my signature gubernatorial achievement was a terrible mistake” platform, but we’re gaming out worst-case scenarios here.

Here’s Allen West last night on Fox pushing the ObamaTax line and urging Romney to follow suit.



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AS if it’s not bad enough that you jerks who pretend to love the Constitution cannot tell the difference between the Federal govt and a state. Since when was Massachusetts covered by Article I? AS long as a state doesn’t step on our God given rights they can do pretty much anything.

You’ve fallen into tyrant Obama’s trap of thinking that Obamacare = Romneycare. IT DOES NOT. Still fighting the primariy when it’s been essentially over for months.

Congratulations fellas. You just proved that the right is full of stupid neanderthals.

MaggiePoo on July 4, 2012 at 8:43 AM

AS if it’s not bad enough that you jerks who pretend to love the Constitution cannot tell the difference between the Federal govt and a state. Since when was Massachusetts covered by Article I? AS long as a state doesn’t step on our God given rights they can do pretty much anything.

You’ve fallen into tyrant Obama’s trap of thinking that Obamacare = Romneycare. IT DOES NOT. Still fighting the primariy when it’s been essentially over for months.

Congratulations fellas. You just proved that the right is full of stupid neanderthals.

MaggiePoo on July 4, 2012 at 8:43 AM

I never argued that Romneycare is/was unconstitutional. I argued and argue that Romney isn’t conservative. The ranks of rombots are apparently filled with idiots who will gladly give up their freedom as long as it happens on the state level.

gryphon202 on July 4, 2012 at 8:47 AM

The Pentagon has made NO plans to deal with the $500 billion in cuts. If they do it would look like they’re okay with them making the cuts easier to pass. (Some cuts are okay but not this much all at once.)

Several red states have not instituted the healthcare exchanges because if they do people will think they’re okay with the law and don’t want it struckdown or repealed.

At least six states have decided not to implement the Medicare expansion because if they do some would misconstrue it as them not caring about repeal.

But folks in these threads? Boo hoo, it doesn’t matter, Romney-Boehner-McConnell won’t repeal anyway……..giving everybody an out.

Stupid. Stupid. Stupid. And say that to any loudmouth opinion writers too!

MaggiePoo on July 4, 2012 at 8:53 AM

The Pentagon has made NO plans to deal with the $500 billion in cuts. If they do it would look like they’re okay with them making the cuts easier to pass. (Some cuts are okay but not this much all at once.)

Several red states have not instituted the healthcare exchanges because if they do people will think they’re okay with the law and don’t want it struckdown or repealed.

At least six states have decided not to implement the Medicare expansion because if they do some would misconstrue it as them not caring about repeal.

But folks in these threads? Boo hoo, it doesn’t matter, Romney-Boehner-McConnell won’t repeal anyway……..giving everybody an out.

Stupid. Stupid. Stupid. And say that to any loudmouth opinion writers too!

MaggiePoo on July 4, 2012 at 8:53 AM

Keep it up, rombot. I’m sure I’ll come around eventually./

gryphon202 on July 4, 2012 at 8:57 AM

I never argued that Romneycare is/was unconstitutional. I argued and argue that Romney isn’t conservative. The ranks of rombots are apparently filled with idiots who will gladly give up their freedom as long as it happens on the state level.

gryphon202 on July 4, 2012 at 8:47 AM

I don’t give a flying fig what you argued. And what Massachusetts does is their own business not yours unless you live there. Romney knows that which makes him smarter than you.

Keep the pressure on Romney and Congress—that’s the ONLY RECOURSE WE HAVE. After Nov 2012 it will be TOO LATE.

Whining and voting third party because you think it doesn’t matter is utterly idiotic. It actually helps loosen their collars from that hook.

MaggiePoo on July 4, 2012 at 8:58 AM

Whining and voting third party because you think it doesn’t matter is utterly idiotic. It actually helps loosen their collars from that hook.

MaggiePoo on July 4, 2012 at 8:58 AM

Who said I’m voting third party, rombot? Can I vote for Romney AND criticize him at the same time? Do I have your permission, douchebag? Or if I plan on voting for him, do I have to shut up and take it up the behind like a good little sheeple? Maybe you’d better know who you’re talking to before you start flinging around the personal criticisms.

gryphon202 on July 4, 2012 at 9:00 AM

We lost the healthcare debate from the get go, after we got trounced in the 2008 election. There are big problems with employer provided healthcare, especially in the modern labor market that demands more flexibility. I also dont understand the right’s commitment to getting your health insurance through your employer considering it was merely a gimmick to get around wage and price controls during FDRs reign, and only exist due to the huge tax breaks that corporations, but not people, get when they purchase insurance. Its a pretty crappy system.

snoopicus on July 4, 2012 at 9:02 AM

Who said I’m voting third party, rombot? Can I vote for Romney AND criticize him at the same time? Do I have your permission, douchebag? Or if I plan on voting for him, do I have to shut up and take it up the behind like a good little sheeple? Maybe you’d better know who you’re talking to before you start flinging around the personal criticisms.

gryphon202 on July 4, 2012 at 9:00 AM

There are plenty on this thread NOT voting for Romney. If you are. Fine. I’m not totally comfortable with him either but I WANT TO KEEP THE PRESSURE ON. Capiche? If you think he’ll tend NOT to repeal Obamacare then don’t give him an out.

MaggiePoo on July 4, 2012 at 9:03 AM

BIggest TAX hike EVAH.

That is all anyone has to say when talking about it. Also, whether or not team Mittens is talking about it, we all can and should be talking about it. We need to keep the pressure on Congress and the Senate to get it repealed. (We also need to keep the pressure on our State gov’ts to opt-out and obstruct obstruct obstruct. They can’t shove the *shit sandwich down our throats without the assistance of the States). If ObamaTax is to be repealed, the drive is going to have to come from the grass roots.

Whatever legislation grass roots conservatives can get through the House and Senate, at least we know Romney won’t veto it (while Obama will definitely veto it). That is why I am voting Romney and not some 3rd party.

Ultimately, I think the real goal should be to amend the Constitution,mwhich has nothing to do with POTUS. We the People need to cut the balls off of the gubbamint.

bitsy on July 4, 2012 at 9:06 AM

Also guys maybe we shouldnt invest so much of our personal feelings or honor or whatever into arguments about candidates. I mean being a politician is basically being a professional BS’er and telling people what they want to hear. Im sure privately they (politicians) laugh at our ridiculous allegiance to them and their “causes”

snoopicus on July 4, 2012 at 9:06 AM

We lost the healthcare debate from the get go, after we got trounced in the 2008 election. There are big problems with employer provided healthcare, especially in the modern labor market that demands more flexibility. I also dont understand the right’s commitment to getting your health insurance through your employer considering it was merely a gimmick to get around wage and price controls during FDRs reign, and only exist due to the huge tax breaks that corporations, but not people, get when they purchase insurance. Its a pretty crappy system.

snoopicus on July 4, 2012 at 9:02 AM

DING DING DING! There you go! It is because of government that we have this problem in the first place! You stumbled on the answer when you mentioned FDR’s wage/price controls. So what’s the solution when government screws it up? That depends on whether your conservative, or like Mitt, you believe the solution is MORE government.

gryphon202 on July 4, 2012 at 9:06 AM

If you think he’ll tend NOT to repeal Obamacare then don’t give him an out.

MaggiePoo on July 4, 2012 at 9:03 AM

There are plenty on this thread who have no intention of voting for Romney. But it’s not my job to convince them. It’s the guy doing that campaigning that has to convince them, and he’s already behaving like he has the election in a walk because he’s not the other guy.

I will not remain silent in the face of tyranny whether or not it has an R or a D behind its name.

gryphon202 on July 4, 2012 at 9:09 AM

We lost the healthcare debate from the get go, after we got trounced in the 2008 election. There are big problems with employer provided healthcare, especially in the modern labor market that demands more flexibility. I also dont understand the right’s commitment to getting your health insurance through your employer considering it was merely a gimmick to get around wage and price controls during FDRs reign, and only exist due to the huge tax breaks that corporations, but not people, get when they purchase insurance. Its a pretty crappy system.

snoopicus on July 4, 2012 at 9:02 AM

Look. I know you mean well but we did NOT lose the healthcare debate. Why are so many of you such pessimists. We had Obama and the progs in a corner before Robert’s betrayal.

People in America listened to us. They’ve held off doing anything about healthcare even figuring out how much it will cost them because they figured WE would be getting rid of it.

NOW’s the time to let them know how much it will cost them. Especially when Obama and the Dems really don’t want to talk about it too much. They’ll try but if we start shouting they’ll back off.

You don’t seem to understand, we’ve beaten them back. That doesn’t mean we’ll win, it means they’re scared of us.

I agree re employers doing the insurance and how and why it started. But therein lies a solution as well. Large companies and groups of companies already take care of pre-existing conditions. You lose it if you lose your job. (1)allow portable insurance (2)allowing pooling among smaller business and in the individual market can take care the rest.

MaggiePoo on July 4, 2012 at 9:09 AM

Mitt’s toast, it’s a penalty not a tax, now watch me get on my jet ski here

Conservative4ev on July 4, 2012 at 9:10 AM

Also guys maybe we shouldnt invest so much of our personal feelings or honor or whatever into arguments about candidates. I mean being a politician is basically being a professional BS’er and telling people what they want to hear. Im sure privately they (politicians) laugh at our ridiculous allegiance to them and their “causes”

snoopicus on July 4, 2012 at 9:06 AM

Let’s roll over and play dead, instead./

I don’t think so.

gryphon202 on July 4, 2012 at 9:10 AM

I will not remain silent in the face of tyranny whether or not it has an R or a D behind its name.

gryphon202 on July 4, 2012 at 9:09 AM

Admirable. But you do know you’re mostly preaching to the choir here don’t you?

MaggiePoo on July 4, 2012 at 9:12 AM

Who said I’m voting third party, rombot? Can I vote for Romney AND criticize him at the same time? Do I have your permission, douchebag? Or if I plan on voting for him, do I have to shut up and take it up the behind like a good little sheeple? Maybe you’d better know who you’re talking to before you start flinging around the personal criticisms.

gryphon202 on July 4, 2012 at 9:00 AM

Awwww

CW on July 4, 2012 at 9:13 AM

Admirable. But you do know you’re mostly preaching to the choir here don’t you?

MaggiePoo on July 4, 2012 at 9:12 AM

I wonder sometimes. So many folks around here seem to slavishly admire Mitt Romney, while I do not. We’ll just have to see how it shakes out in November, I guess.

gryphon202 on July 4, 2012 at 9:14 AM

So many folks around here seem to slavishly admire Mitt Romney, …

gryphon202 on July 4, 2012 at 9:14 AM

Really?

Name 5-10 and post quotes for each that support your contention.

CW on July 4, 2012 at 9:16 AM

So many folks around here seem to slavishly admire Mitt Romney, …

gryphon202 on July 4, 2012 at 9:14 AM

Really?

Name 5-10 and post quotes for each that support your contention.

CW on July 4, 2012 at 9:16 AM

It’s an opinion, douche. Get over yourself.

gryphon202 on July 4, 2012 at 9:22 AM

Let’s roll over and play dead, instead./

I don’t think so.

gryphon202 on July 4, 2012 at 9:10 AM

No but getting yourself worked up doesnt make your vote count more, or make your arguments more persuasive. And i was thinking about the republicans that are talking repeal. Its just talk, its BS, and they wont do it.

snoopicus on July 4, 2012 at 9:23 AM

gryphon202 on July 4, 2012 at 9:00 AM

Awwww

CW on July 4, 2012 at 9:13 AM

I’m butthurt, so your argument is invalid.

/CW

gryphon202 on July 4, 2012 at 9:24 AM

It’s an opinion, douche. Get over yourself.

gryphon202 on July 4, 2012 at 9:22 AM

Just what I thought. You’re full of shi*. Funny what happens when the liars are called upon to back up their bs.

CW on July 4, 2012 at 9:25 AM

No but getting yourself worked up doesnt make your vote count more, or make your arguments more persuasive. And i was thinking about the republicans that are talking repeal. Its just talk, its BS, and they wont do it.

snoopicus on July 4, 2012 at 9:23 AM

I’m inclined to agree, Snoop. But you might have mistaken me for a party man. I’m not. Should the worst come to pass, I don’t intend to let it pass without comment or criticism. If nothing else, I need to be able to sleep at night knowing that I did what I could even if that’s not much.

gryphon202 on July 4, 2012 at 9:26 AM

I’m butthurt, so your argument is invalid.

/CW

gryphon202 on July 4, 2012 at 9:24 AM

I think you called that poster around 3 names it one post.

Who is butthurt?

CW on July 4, 2012 at 9:26 AM

For someone to claim “so many” seems it would not be too hard for an intelligent to name at least 5 posters that helped form that “opinion”.

CW on July 4, 2012 at 9:28 AM

Just what I thought. You’re full of shi*. Funny what happens when the liars are called upon to back up their bs.

CW on July 4, 2012 at 9:25 AM

Opinion =/= lie.

What part of “…seems to me…” did you miss? Good lord, I hope you enjoy the rarified air up there on your high horse.

gryphon202 on July 4, 2012 at 9:28 AM

For someone to claim “so many” seems it would not be too hard for an intelligent to name at least 5 posters that helped form that “opinion”.

CW on July 4, 2012 at 9:28 AM

GFY, douche. I’m not going to play your little gotcha games.

gryphon202 on July 4, 2012 at 9:29 AM

gryphon….

so how did you form your “opinion”? Out of thin air?

High horse? You’re hilarious. Let us see “rombot”, “sheeple”, and “douchebag” all in one post.

CW on July 4, 2012 at 9:29 AM

So many folks around here seem to slavishly admire Mitt Romney, …

gryphon202 on July 4, 2012 at 9:14 AM

Really?

Name 5-10 and post quotes for each that support your contention.

CW on July 4, 2012 at 9:16 AM

Basilsbest, Meredith, Chudi, joana, petunia, Terrye, cicerone, The War Planner, chargersomethingorother, bluegill…the list is pretty long. FInd the comments yourself.

And then of course there are the pathetic Red Team cheerleaders like yourself. They’re not so much pro-Romney as anti-whoever the rubes might like.

ddrintn on July 4, 2012 at 9:30 AM

GFY, douche. I’m not going to play your little gotcha games.

gryphon202 on July 4, 2012 at 9:29 AM

Like a liberal you won’t play because you don’t have an answer. This is also known as being FOS.

CW on July 4, 2012 at 9:31 AM

^ And there’s no way I could leave Buy Danish, swamp yankee, mountainaires and Rational Thought off that list. Want more?

ddrintn on July 4, 2012 at 9:33 AM

Basilsbest, Meredith, Chudi, joana, petunia, Terrye, cicerone, The War Planner, chargersomethingorother, bluegill…the list is pretty long. FInd the comments yourself.

And then of course there are the pathetic Red Team cheerleaders like yourself. They’re not so much pro-Romney as anti-whoever the rubes might like.

ddrintn on July 4, 2012 at 9:30 AM

You wanna go back and C&P the posts to shut him up, or should I? This is going to get real old real fast if every time we express an opinion, a rombot demands that we prove it somehow.

gryphon202 on July 4, 2012 at 9:34 AM

ddrintn on July 4, 2012 at 9:30 AM

So now you speak for Gryphon? How cute.

Find the posts yourself? Too hilarious. You’re a mental giant..Yes you are./

The likes of you don’t even know how to read. I actually like SP just not the insane following of the likes of you and others. What a nasty bunch.

CW on July 4, 2012 at 9:35 AM

Awwww Gryphon saved. How sweet ….Gyrphon you’re as empty headed as they come. Have fun with ddr . You guys can trade your pics of SP.

CW on July 4, 2012 at 9:36 AM

Let the record reflect: A rombot was the first individual to bring up “SP” on this thread.

gryphon202 on July 4, 2012 at 9:38 AM

I wonder sometimes. So many folks around here seem to slavishly admire Mitt Romney, while I do not. We’ll just have to see how it shakes out in November, I guess.

gryphon202 on July 4, 2012 at 9:14 AM

Well, I do think criticism of Romney is a bit overblown. Granted there’s Massachusetts. On the other hand MA probably was a stepping stone in his long range plans. His Mormonism speaks more clearly to his conservative side than liberal. I do like him as a person and his entire family too and get annoyed when Democrats keep saying he’s not likable.

Of course we all would rather have a Reagan but we don’t.

MaggiePoo on July 4, 2012 at 9:41 AM

Awwww Gryphon saved. How sweet ….Gyrphon you’re as empty headed as they come. Have fun with ddr . You guys can trade your pics of SP.

CW on July 4, 2012 at 9:36 AM

In other words you just got your ass kicked. Again. Pathetic.

ddrintn on July 4, 2012 at 9:48 AM

Well, I do think criticism of Romney is a bit overblown. Granted there’s Massachusetts. On the other hand MA probably was a stepping stone in his long range plans. His Mormonism speaks more clearly to his conservative side than liberal. I do like him as a person and his entire family too and get annoyed when Democrats keep saying he’s not likable.

Of course we all would rather have a Reagan but we don’t.

MaggiePoo on July 4, 2012 at 9:41 AM

I used to associate Catholicism with conservatism as well, until I realized what a load of complete and utter bullshit the RCC’s “social justice” mission is.

While there is no doubt in my mind that Mitt Romney has done good under the rubric of LDS/Mormonism, he still signed Romneycare into law with Teddy Kennedy smiling over his shoulder. He still has a checkered past (to put it mildly) on issues like gun control and climate change. And now that he’s seeking the highest elected office in the land, I’m supposed to turn around and accept that he is the last best hope for conservatism? That is a difficult proposition, Maggie. He may indeed be the last best hope to prevent the America of yore from being completely flushed down the toilet of history, but even knowing that isn’t enough to convince me that he’s any kind of conservative. There’s just too much in his past that speaks to the contrary.

gryphon202 on July 4, 2012 at 9:49 AM

Well, I do think criticism of Romney is a bit overblown. Granted there’s Massachusetts. On the other hand MA probably was a stepping stone in his long range plans. His Mormonism speaks more clearly to his conservative side than liberal. I do like him as a person and his entire family too and get annoyed when Democrats keep saying he’s not likable.

MaggiePoo on July 4, 2012 at 9:41 AM

It’s not just Democrats. Romney simply isn’t all that likable. Using the governorship as a “stepping stone” means in the usual “opportunist”, but don’t you dare say so or else you’re a h8er!!11111!!11; and his record in MA doesn’t inspire much confidence. In short, Romney’s a moderate with no discernible political core. That’s not “overblown criticism”, that’s simply a fact.

ddrintn on July 4, 2012 at 9:53 AM

Let the record reflect: A rombot was the first individual to bring up “SP” on this thread.

gryphon202 on July 4, 2012 at 9:38 AM

They usually are. If you’ve ever gone on record as a Palin supporter, they’ll always use that as their weapon of last defense against you. Always. It’s their red herring.

ddrintn on July 4, 2012 at 9:56 AM

ddrintn on July 4, 2012 at 9:53 AM

Don’t be too hard on Maggie, DDR. I think she’s being civil and reasonable and has a genuine desire to get at the truth. The rombots, on the other hand…

gryphon202 on July 4, 2012 at 10:03 AM

ddrintn on July 4, 2012 at 9:33 AM

You store up names of posters who have criticized you like a kindergartner hangs onto playground insults for eventual retribution.

When that many people criticize you I think it is time to conduct a little self-evaluation to see if the problem may be coming from you.

Going to SP book signings is not the way to self awareness…. /sarc

Bradky on July 4, 2012 at 10:06 AM

You store up names of posters who have criticized you like a kindergartner hangs onto playground insults for eventual retribution.

When that many people criticize you I think it is time to conduct a little self-evaluation to see if the problem may be coming from you.

Going to SP book signings is not the way to self awareness…. /sarc

Bradky on July 4, 2012 at 10:06 AM

Did you miss the rest of the post, Brad? That wasn’t a list of folks who criticized DDR. It’s a list of the posters here who might lead one to believe that there are many slavish Romney supporters rombots that post here. Nice try putting words in DDR’s mouth.

gryphon202 on July 4, 2012 at 10:09 AM

gryphon202 on July 4, 2012 at 10:09 AM

Everyone he listed has criticized him — call it a freudian slip on his part.
BTW are you and he cousins?

Bradky on July 4, 2012 at 10:12 AM

gryphon202 on July 4, 2012 at 10:09 AM

Everyone he listed has criticized him — call it a freudian slip on his part.
BTW are you and he cousins?

Bradky on July 4, 2012 at 10:12 AM

There are a few of those individuals I don’t recall ever having gotten into it with, and I’d characterize every last one of them as flaming rombots. You going to demand that I justify my opinion now, too?

gryphon202 on July 4, 2012 at 10:15 AM

Meh, nevermind. Work calls. Have fun from on-high, rombots. Just don’t forget, karma’s a b!tch.

gryphon202 on July 4, 2012 at 10:16 AM

I’m supposed to turn around and accept that he is the last best hope for conservatism? That is a difficult proposition, Maggie. He may indeed be the last best hope to prevent the America of yore from being completely flushed down the toilet of history, but even knowing that isn’t enough to convince me that he’s any kind of conservative. There’s just too much in his past that speaks to the contrary.

gryphon202 on July 4, 2012 at 9:49 AM

Well, if I ignore your little strawman there, fair enough.

MaggiePoo on July 4, 2012 at 10:19 AM

You going to demand that I justify my opinion now, too?

gryphon202 on July 4, 2012 at 10:15 AM

If your thing is to be ordered around by an anonymous poster on the internet I suppose I can oblige you from time to time….

Bradky on July 4, 2012 at 10:21 AM

I’m going to once again follow McCain’s Mother’s advice “hold your nose & vote for him”.
Ditto for Romney.
He’s a liberal republican, & nothing will ever change that.
Will he repeal Obamacare? Will he put the screws into his good buddy Mike Leavitt (firm making a ton by setting up Obamacare exchanges) by doing so? Leavitt, another liberal republican, may have a top staff position if Romney wins.
I read on another thread here that suggested Romney will go through the motions of repeal but it will come to naught.
I hope Justice Roberts can sleep well at night knowing what he has done to America with one stroke of the pen.

Belle on July 4, 2012 at 10:21 AM

Obama calls the 1.8 trillion dollar Obamacare program “a cost free security blanket” for Hispanics, the poor and umarried women.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/07/04/obama-campaign-steps-up-obamacare-defense/

eyedoc on July 4, 2012 at 10:57 AM

Congratulations fellas. You just proved that the right is full of stupid neanderthals.

MaggiePoo on July 4, 2012 at 8:43 AM

King Willard the Inevitable said-on national television, no less-that he wants the mandate to be federal as well as state policy. Who’s the neanderthal now?

Dunedainn on July 4, 2012 at 11:04 AM

mittens still sucks but i’ve decide he’s not worth my time…I’m going to spend my time and money trying to get Gary Johnson elected…because the GOP is a hopeless and hapless case (I.E., THEY WILL LIKELY STICK WITH MITTENS).
NOMITTNOBAMA 2012
GARY JOHNSON 2012, yes, he really does want to repeal the obama/romneycare monstrosity!

Pragmatic on July 4, 2012 at 11:43 AM

Romney can “not” win this election by making the repeal of Obamacare his centerpiece. He and his team are going to have to work hard/be smart about fighting off the charges of Bain/Outsourcing. If they’re smart they’ll turn it around on Obama and the dem’s who’r redistributing more of our nations wealth/jobs than the Republicans did. But the real centerpiece should be jobs and the economy with the emphasis on JOBS, JOBS, JOBS and bringing back heavy industry and manufacturing to the US. DD

Darvin Dowdy on July 4, 2012 at 12:00 PM

And then of course there are the pathetic Red Team cheerleaders like yourself. They’re not so much pro-Romney as anti-whoever the rubes might like.

ddrintn on July 4, 2012 at 9:30 AM

The specific term you probably want is “party hack” or “party shill.”

Doomberg on July 4, 2012 at 12:04 PM

You store up names of posters who have criticized you like a kindergartner hangs onto playground insults for eventual retribution.

When that many people criticize you I think it is time to conduct a little self-evaluation to see if the problem may be coming from you.

Going to SP book signings is not the way to self awareness…. /sarc

Bradky on July 4, 2012 at 10:06 AM

Oh, it’s our own little obsessive Palinophobe Bill Maher knockoff again! Long time no see, Bill. Well, the closest I’ve ever come to an SP book signing is picking up a copy of Going Rogue at the bargain bin at Wal-Mart. Now go back to poring over over your deluxe copy of Game Change.

I store up the names of Romney sycophants. Back at ya, Bill. If you have proof that ANY of them have had criticism of Romney the way many of us supposedly drooling Palinistas have of Palin, show it. And I’m supposed to go ointo self-examination when a little claque of Mittbots hurls ad hominem my way? Seem to me that I hit a nerve more than anything else.

ddrintn on July 4, 2012 at 12:52 PM

The specific term you probably want is “party hack” or “party shill.”

Doomberg on July 4, 2012 at 12:04 PM

Yeah, that’s Bradky for sure. An ideological wasteland who simply orgasms over the red jersey, as long as it has the official GOPe logo emblazoned on it somewhere.

ddrintn on July 4, 2012 at 12:58 PM

Why did gryphon and others completely freak out on this thread and start bashing those they named as “Rombots” but who to me appear to be good, decent conservatives? Why was this thread flamed and shredded and torn up apparently because Mitt appears to agree with Scalia’s and Thomas’ dissent, and also has decided to run mostly on the issue of jobs? I think the answer is the frustration and impotence that many feel.

Why did blacks riot in Watts during the sixties and after the Rodney King beating? Rioting hurt nobody but themselves; the destruction and chaos led to higher prices for all the blacks living in those ghettos. Insurance rose, franchised markets moved out, damage made the region unsightly and unsafe. It wasn’t logical to go crazy in that self-damaging manner, but blacks did it anyway and nobody was about to talk them out of it.

What we saw on this thread is equivalent to African-Americans rioting in ghettos when they were frustrated.

There was no reason on this thread to accuse those defending their backing of Romney as blind “Mittbots.” Bluegill who might be considered an exception made a short appearance and offered what I felt were sober comments considering the evening as a whole. Joanna never appeared. All the people I observed commenting were well aware of the fact that Romney’s not a perfect choice. But he’s our nominee and he’ll be better than Obama. That’s the bottom line here.

When petulant conservatives and Gary Johnson fans riot in one of our threads, I offer this advice to them: “Mitt is our nominee. We need unity to defeat Obama, and that’s important. Support him, and meantime work to get true conservatives into the Senate, House and state offices. Stop the craziness and try to be productive in this fight.”

They probably won’t want to hear this anymore than the blacks who rioted in Watts, but that’s my advice anyway.

Burke on July 4, 2012 at 1:11 PM

ddrintn on July 4, 2012 at 12:58 PM

Since this is apparently your thread, is it against the rules to be a Romney supporter on this site? You seem to think so.
Will not re-argue the primarys, just wondering why you think no one is allowed to support him.

bluealice on July 4, 2012 at 1:13 PM

Mitt should incorporate the following arguments, along with those related to the economy and O’s illegal power grabs daily:

1. Urge the House to defund OTax in every agency involved.
2. Stress the entire bill must and will be repealed – not parse
about ‘we’ll save the good parts’.
3. The Supreme Court has ruled both that it is unconstitutional under the CC and also the largest tax increase – particularly on the middle class – in history.
4. Publicly encourage states to refuse to expand medicaid rolls and set up exchanges, stressing states’ rights vs. unchecked federal power. Argue the law is unenforceable without their obeisance.
5. Discuss sale of insurance across state lines as the best way to reduce costs and heal the system.

Will he do these things? I doubt it.

Opinionator on July 4, 2012 at 1:30 PM

Since this is apparently your thread, is it against the rules to be a Romney supporter on this site? You seem to think so.
Will not re-argue the primarys, just wondering why you think no one is allowed to support him.

bluealice on July 4, 2012 at 1:13 PM

When did I say it’s my thread? I didn’t comment until about 6 pages had gone by the boards. Of course it’s not against the rules to be a Romney supporter on this site. Quite the contrary: it’s the non-’bots who are targets for insult of the “O-bot!!! Socialist!!! Concern troll!!! OWSer!!! Palin-worshiper!!!! Filthy commie bastard” variety. That’s pretty much the extent of “support for Romney” here. That and a multitude of rationalizations and spin-doctoring, and more insults when that is pointed out.

ddrintn on July 4, 2012 at 2:09 PM

When petulant conservatives and Gary Johnson fans riot in one of our threads, I offer this advice to them: “Mitt is our nominee. We need unity to defeat Obama, and that’s important. Support him, and meantime work to get true conservatives into the Senate, House and state offices. Stop the craziness and try to be productive in this fight.”

They probably won’t want to hear this anymore than the blacks who rioted in Watts, but that’s my advice anyway.

Burke on July 4, 2012 at 1:11 PM

What a bunch of condescending bullshit. “Obey your betters, you unruly rabble!!!!”

ddrintn on July 4, 2012 at 2:14 PM

^ It could also be, Burke, that “petulant conservatives” are tired of having this “we need unity now” crap thrown into their faces at election time, when this or that weak-assed squish needs their votes…and then shat upon or ignored until the next cycle. And on and on it goes and has gone. A lot of people are simply fed up and are drawing then line, which is going to be drawn sometime somewhere.

ddrintn on July 4, 2012 at 2:22 PM

ddrintn on July 4, 2012 at 2:09 PM

Oh good grief. Project much? Chill

bluealice on July 4, 2012 at 2:32 PM

Why did gryphon and others completely freak out on this thread and start bashing those they named as “Rombots” but who to me appear to be good, decent conservatives? Why was this thread flamed and shredded and torn up apparently because Mitt appears to agree with Scalia’s and Thomas’ dissent, and also has decided to run mostly on the issue of jobs? I think the answer is the frustration and impotence that many feel.

Burke on July 4, 2012 at 1:11 PM

Are Romneybots really that dimwitted?

What part of RomneyCare TAX, TAX, TAX (Let me know how many more times TAX has to be repeated to you so that you will hopefully and finally understand) don’t you understand?

Who cares if Romney SAYS he agrees with Scalia, when, IN FACT, Romney instituted a TAX and called it TAX in his law? Confirmed that much in a number of videos available. was more than proud of the law in the GOP primaries and refused to call it what it is, restriction of freedom, who cares if its at state level or not. When it suited him in his drive to force citizens into this monstrosity that you and I are now subsidizing to the tune of more than $500 MILLION per year and ever increasing and without actually living in MA, he called it exactly what it is, a TAX. What he KNOWS it is, a TAX.

Same thing cannot be called TAX under a state law, but then a PENALTY under Federal law. Do you understand that much?

If you are “educated” on subjects as you seem to claim to be, and as every RomneyBot claims as well, just Google RomneyCare and health TAX and see what comes up. Instead of proffering your “sage advice” here, which is absolutely non-factual, try to understand who Romney really is, then we’ll talk.

If it walks like a duck and it talks like a duck…

TAX!

You useful idiots are nothing but fodder that will be discarded by Romney until next election cycle. Exactly how Stalin and Mao dealt with your kind before, laughing all the way.

To even mention Scalia in same sentence with Romney is beyond any comprehension. One is a true conservative doing everything to protect our freedoms and the other has been trampling on our freedoms at every opportunity: higher taxes/fees (30% higher than even liberal NY state), gun rights, RomneyCare, etc.

And just like that (snap fingers) Romney wakes up one day, says he is now conservative, and will not limit gun rights, will decrease taxes, will not pay for abortions (after telling underage girls that they do not need to listen to their parents and seek court ruling to get an abortion), will not force TAX/penalty for not participating in an state forced health care Ponzi scheme, etc. Just like that, with a snap of the fingers, he is a conservative now /s

Ask yourself where has Rove been since the decision last week? Coulter? Other GOP hacks that told us Romney is it? Very strangely silent now. Think about it for a second and ask yourself, WHY?

More than pathetic and something I thought I will never see after escaping same crap in USSR.

History repeats itself in more ways than one. Too bad so few actually know it nor pay attention to it. Educational system in this country is truly 3rd World when so many have such a difficult time to understand facts.

riddick on July 4, 2012 at 2:39 PM

ddrintn:

“lot of people are simply fed up and are drawing then line, which is going to be drawn sometime somewhere.”

This is not the “line” and not the “somewhere”. Obama MUST be defeated. That is our ONLY goal on November 6th. If he is re-elected, EVERYTHING is over. There will be NO chance to put some politician’s feet to the fire and bring him to a sensible Constitutional way of administering the country. THE NATION WILL BE GONE.

Yeah, we hear a lot about taking up arms against a sea of troubles. You know very well that will NOT happen. Citizens just are not geared that way anymore. Do most of us even own a gun, let alone know how to use one. We fear the LITERAL loss of our families, our homes, everything we own; we fear living in encampments in remote places while revolution is planned. We DO NOT have what the Founders had in the way of being willing to give up EVERYTHING.

So the alternative is giving in to Obama’s dictatorship, or giving the nation one last chance–because that is what it is–the last bloomin’ opportunity to have a republic by sticking together and voting for the Republican candidate.

As for calling each other names in this comment thread, shame on you! We love our country. Let’s acknowledge that differences of opinion exist within the Republican/Conservative/Libertarian community BUT that our GOAL is to DEFEAT OBAMA 2012! There is no other option.

READ OUR FOUNDING DOCUMENTS ON THIS OUR BLESSED INDEPENDENCE DAY AND RECOGNIZE THAT NOVEMBER 6th IS OUR LAST CHANCE TO KEEP WHAT THEY GAVE US THROUGH THEIR BLOOD–their lives, their fortunes, their sacred honor.

GOD BLESS AMERICA!

Mae on July 4, 2012 at 2:45 PM

666

Schadenfreude on July 4, 2012 at 3:24 PM

I can’t see voting 3rd party because well, there is no viable candidate running. None.

BlaxPac on July 3, 2012 at 10:20 PM

I agree with you about this. Johnson isn’t going to win anything, but I understand that there are those who need some hope and they latch onto guys like him because they simply cannot buy the line of BS being sold by the GOP again. For them its Gary Johnson or despair.

The GOP will betray you and it will be identified with conservatism when it does so. I don’t believe that the GOP and the Democrats are all that opposed to each other. They are partners in governing and minor rivals who fight over who gets the prime spot at the trough. They have no intention to alter that state of affairs.

sharrukin on July 3, 2012 at 10:31 PM

This is why I don’t plan on voting for Romney.

And for all you mugs who keep screaming that there is no excuse whatsoever for failing to show up to vote for Romney — well, I really don’t care any longer. The GOP always fishes for our votes by telling us that THIS election is the most important in history; they’ve been doing it for the past couple of decades at least. But while the Democrats keep pushing us closer to collapse, the Republicans just hold the line for them (while harrumphing about liberty and taxes and immorality to get people to vote for them); they never roll anything back. I’m not going to keep supporting the GOP and hoping that maybe this time they’ll actually accomplish something, in large part because the GOP have really showed their true colors this year. They don’t want Tea Party candidates to come in and change things. They don’t want to do anything about this country’s precarious situation; they like things the way they are. That’s why I do not believe for even a moment that Romney is going to push for a repeal for Obamacare.

I’m sick of the tease. I resent being told about how dangerous the Democrats are, voting for the GOP, and then seeing them do nothing once in power. I now see the GOP as part of the problem, even if they’re not as energetically destructive as the Democrats. Voting GOP is like voting for Vichy France in order to keep Nazi Germany from invading. Both parties are now equally suspect in my eyes; this country will collapse and neither party will stop it; voting (for anyone other than someone KNOWN to be competent, diligent, energetic, and honest) apparently accomplishes NOTHING except allowing the incompetent and the undeserving to continue to gorge on taxpayer revenues and to come up with more schemes to keep the revenues pouring in.

Gah.

Aitch748 on July 4, 2012 at 3:29 PM

Support him, and meantime work to get true conservatives into the Senate, House and state offices. Stop the craziness and try to be productive in this fight.”

Common refrain – sorry I can’t source it?

Please tell me in what way or how “true conservatives” have limited Obama in any way, shape or form? I said after the SC decision that we would start hearing how it was impractical to repeal Obamatax. It took 3 days – McConnell has folded. Romney is as always squishy, please don’t make me lust the ways we KNOW he supports government healthcare and mandates. Where’s Boehner?
LESS THAN A WEEK.

I don’t know how to fix it but it’s broken beyond repair. We are entering the New World Order either by design or not, how can we sustain this much debt? Impossible. It alone will collapse us. I’m voting but going to use my energy figuring out how to survive. We got big big problems ahead and our precious tea party has been witness to much of the start of it with nary a peep, much bluster mind you, but no action. Prove me wrong!

quiz1 on July 4, 2012 at 4:40 PM

When petulant conservatives and Gary Johnson fans riot in one of our threads, I offer this advice to them: “Mitt is our nominee. We need unity to defeat Obama, and that’s important. Support him, and meantime work to get true conservatives into the Senate, House and state offices. Stop the craziness and try to be productive in this fight.”

They probably won’t want to hear this anymore than the blacks who rioted in Watts, but that’s my advice anyway.

Burke on July 4, 2012 at 1:11 PM

What a bunch of condescending bullshit. “Obey your betters, you unruly rabble!!!!”

ddrintn on July 4, 2012 at 2:14 PM

“our nominee”……hah! mittens is “your nominee” and you can have both him AND obambi!
When it comes to the Dims or the GOP, it’s “NONE OF THE ABOVE” all the way.

Gary Johnson or BUST! …gotta try something new …the old crap aint workin’ anymore!

Pragmatic on July 4, 2012 at 5:36 PM

Gary Johnson or BUST! …gotta try something new …the old crap aint workin’ anymore!

Pragmatic on July 4, 2012 at 5:36 PM

Prag, do you really believe that Gary Johnson is going to make a dent in the major parties’ numbers? Can you honestly say that you believe your vote for Johnson will be anything except a steaming stinking pile of protest? If that’s good enough for you, more power to you. I’m just wondering where someone who calls himself “pragmatic” actually honestly comes down on this…

gryphon202 on July 4, 2012 at 5:56 PM

Congratulations fellas. You just proved that the right is full of stupid neanderthals.

MaggiePoo on July 4, 2012 at 8:43 AM

King Willard the Inevitable said-on national television, no less-that he wants the mandate to be federal as well as state policy. Who’s the neanderthal now?

Dunedainn on July 4, 2012 at 11:04 AM

You, of course….that was rhetorical, right?

jimver on July 4, 2012 at 6:16 PM

History repeats itself in more ways than one. Too bad so few actually know it nor pay attention to it. Educational system in this country is truly 3rd World when so many have such a difficult time to understand facts.

riddick on July 4, 2012 at 2:39 PM

That’s rich coming from someone who actually got his education in the ‘third world’ :)… Or is it this a case of ‘ it takes ones to know one ‘ (who got through a crappy education system, that is :)…

jimver on July 4, 2012 at 6:21 PM

FWIIW, if Romney wants to win, besides firing Fehrnstrom, he needs to select as his VP someone that conservatives can embrace as one of their own.

No, not Jeb Bush, Chris Christie, Bobby Jindal, Bob Portman, Marco Rubio, or Paul Ryan.

The question is will he do it?

As to the statement by Team Romney that they are not declaring a “cease fire” on Obamacare, while the putative nominee’s statement to Crawford is helpful, Fehrnstrom needs to go.

john.frank on July 4, 2012 at 6:39 PM

History repeats itself in more ways than one. Too bad so few actually know it nor pay attention to it. Educational system in this country is truly 3rd World when so many have such a difficult time to understand facts.

riddick on July 4, 2012 at 2:39 PM

That’s rich coming from someone who actually got his education in the ‘third world’ :)… Or is it this a case of ‘ it takes ones to know one ‘ (who got through a crappy education system, that is :)…

jimver on July 4, 2012 at 6:21 PM

I believe riddick has said he’s from eastern Europe originally. That would be Second World, genius.

ddrintn on July 4, 2012 at 7:11 PM

Damage control

No. A course change, including giving Ferhnstrom his walking papers.

john.frank on July 4, 2012 at 9:05 PM

oldroy on July 3, 2012 at 11:57 PM

BlaxPac on July 3, 2012 at 11:49 PM

RINO in Name Only on July 3, 2012 at 11:09 PM

tom daschle concerned on July 3, 2012 at 11:04 PM

Breking news! This Saturday counties across Michigan will be opening their MIGOP Victory Centers, and you are invited to attend.

The same should be happening in the other states, so now is your time to volunteer to elect Conservative Mitt Romney. He is not 0bama!

If you live in Michigan sign up here. If you want to volunteer in other states just let me know. I’ll find the link for you upon request.

Be sure to bring your family and friends. ;)

DannoJyd on July 5, 2012 at 1:45 AM

That’s rich coming from someone who actually got his education in the ‘third world’ :)… Or is it this a case of ‘ it takes ones to know one ‘ (who got through a crappy education system, that is :)…

jimver on July 4, 2012 at 6:21 PM

I believe riddick has said he’s from eastern Europe originally. That would be Second World, genius.

ddrintn on July 4, 2012 at 7:11 PM

Glad to hear that riddick has a lawyer in a f..wit like you :)…he must be thrilled :)… Btw, he actually said that he is from the ex-USSR and not Eastern Europe, you’d think that even a halfwit like you knows he difference :)..oh, and he never mentioned what exact part of the ex-USSR he is from, as far as I am concerned, eh can be from Turkmenistan or such…problem with your no -existent geopolitical knowledge and poor reasoning in general being that a lot of the republics of the ex-USSR were actually kept in third world conditions during the communist regime, and deliberately so…so, yeah, in theory USSR might have been ‘second world’ (that would include mainy Russia), in reality whole regions/parts of the USSR were as underdeveloped and poor as some third world countries….but then I wouldn’t assume that you know that USSR wasn’t an actual country, but a collection of unequally developed republics/regions/countries forced together in one bizarre union by the insane regime..

jimver on July 5, 2012 at 11:02 AM

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