Romney advisor: You’re right, the ObamaCare mandate isn’t a tax

posted at 9:54 pm on July 2, 2012 by Allahpundit

When you nominate the man responsible for RomneyCare, don’t be surprised if his team’s reluctant to embrace Roberts’s argument that a mandate is a tax. Even if everyone else in the party has spent the past five days happily rubbing The One’s face in it.

Over at Breitbart.com, Joel Pollak urges Romney to get it together:

Fehrnstrom allowed Chuck Todd to push him off message–and re-ignited the fears that conservatives have long had about Romney’s will and ability to fight. In response, conservatives–who had just coalesced around opposition to what many now call “Obamatax”–exhort: Mitt, start fighting, or give up and let someone else do it.

Fehrnstrom’s point–in defense of Romneycare–was that the Supreme Court was wrong to uphold Obamacare under the taxing power. The individual mandate was never intended to be a tax, Congress never called it a tax, and it wasn’t a tax in Massachusetts, either. Fine–but now that Obama’s lawyers went to court and called it a tax, and Chief Justice John Roberts called it a tax (and spare us the non-distinction between “tax” and the “taxing power”) Obamacare is, undeniably, a massive tax on the middle class. Obama lied. It’s that simple.

The GOP primary is over, and this is not a mistake that Fehrnstrom can merely shake away. It’s going to be used–and already is being used–by the Obama campaign to save itself from the tax argument, and to label Romney as a liar (when that label belongs squarely on Obama, who campaigned against Hillary Clinton’s individual mandate in 2008).

Tom Maguire says Fehrnstrom should have fallen back on the federalism argument that Romney’s used in the past to distinguish a state program like RomneyCare from an unconstitutional federal power grab like ObamaCare. Would that still work, though? Now that the Court’s upheld O’s signature boondoggle, the “RomneyCare = legal, ObamaCare = illegal” defense doesn’t really fly. I’m not sure that it ever really did: The reason RomneyCare’s such a liability for Mitt isn’t because it’s constitutionally questionable but because it’s a hair-raising government expansion that ended up blazing a trail for O-Care. To me, Romney’s federalism indictment of ObamaCare always smacked of him saying to voters, “Don’t worry! Legally, as president, I couldn’t impose my Massachusetts plan on you even if I wanted to.” Um, great.

I think that argument’s even weaker when it comes to taxes just because alarms start going off in people’s heads at the mention of the word. Hard to think of federalism niceties when you’re focused on more money potentially being sucked out of your pocket. That said, though, Pollak’s right: I think you have to hit O on the “tax” charge even if Romney’s a terribly flawed messenger for it. It’s viscerally effective and you can count on most low-information voters not to know or learn that Romney had a little tax-penalty-mandate of his own in Massachusetts. If worse comes to worst, he can always claim that Massachusetts residents love to pay taxes — which isn’t strictly true, but is true enough that they keep electing Democrats — and that most Americans don’t, and he’ll govern accordingly. Unlike The One.

Two clips for you, one of advisor Eric Fehrnstrom and the other via NRO of Krauthammer urging Romney to be just as hypocritical about this as Obama and Democrats are. Exit quotation via Mitt spokeswoman Andrea Saul: “The federal individual mandate in Obamacare is either a constitutional tax or an unconstitutional penalty. Governor Romney thinks it is an unconstitutional penalty. What is President Obama’s position?”


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This election is OVER. Romney had his chance to hammer, hammer and hammer again on the Obamacare tax issue. It’s easy to understand and easy to communicate. But it’s all gone now. Obamacare is now a winner for the President, who is seen as the “winner”of the fight.

Hope every Republican who voted for Romney in the primaries is really happy right now. You got your guy! Enjoy McCain part II!

gumbyandpokey on July 3, 2012 at 9:52 AM

Have bluegill or joanna been by to explain how this was the exact perfect move by the Romney campaign?

Night Owl on July 3, 2012 at 9:54 AM

Have bluegill or joanna been by to explain how this was the exact perfect move by the Romney campaign?

Night Owl on July 3, 2012 at 9:54 AM

I’d like someone to explain it to me, lol.

Fallon on July 3, 2012 at 9:56 AM

Is the “Breaking on Hot Air” banner new? Am I being too immature if I think “Breaking Wind on Hot Air” when I read it?

Fallon on July 3, 2012 at 9:59 AM

Hope every Republican who voted for Romney in the primaries is really happy right now. You got your guy! Enjoy McCain part II!

gumbyandpokey on July 3, 2012 at 9:52 AM

Romney wasn’t my first choice, but how does winning by a huge margin prove he will lose to Obama?

As to the real topic. It wasn’t a tax. It has been “transformed” into a tax, which should scare the hell out of everyone just as much as Obamacare itself. Neither thing should stand – Obamacare, or a new “implicit” taxing power.

If you argue that Obamacare is “constitutional” as a tax without also arguing that it must be re-written as such, you are arguing against any reasonable form of government based on our Constitution.

And this seems to be the road that Romney is taking.

oldroy on July 3, 2012 at 10:03 AM

If you think Romneycare is pure socialism, then you do not even know what socialism is.

Terrye on July 3, 2012 at 7:26 AM

Wow, yet another Mensa moron, aka RomneyBot.

Please, PLEASE, tell me what “socialism” is. You can argue amongst your delusional Mensa chapter all day long, and yet not one of you deep thinkers have LIVED in USSR, as I did. And I can tell you that RomneyCare, as is HusseinCare, is SOCIALISM. Period.

As is the man, self professed PROGRESSIVE LIBERAL.

Have no idea if Romney stands a chance this fall, but one thing is for certain: you idiots should shut up sometimes and actually try to understand what is being said to you and your liberal candidate.

riddick on July 3, 2012 at 10:05 AM

Is the “Breaking on Hot Air” banner new? Am I being too immature if I think “Breaking Wind on Hot Air” when I read it?

Fallon on July 3, 2012 at 9:59 AM

It is new, and I just learned something else. If you do :) in the headlines, it comes out as a smiley face. Since I was excited to find this out, I am in no position to pass judgment on other peoples’ maturity. :)

Night Owl on July 3, 2012 at 10:08 AM

“Romney wasn’t my first choice, but how does winning by a huge margin prove he will lose to Obama?”

Botching this gift of an issue proves Romney cannot win. This was the softball of all softballs and Romney and his advisors cowered away from the issue and gave Obama a pass. We’ve seen this movie before with McCain being afraid/unwilling to criticize the President and he got his rear end kicked back to AZ.

It can’t be overstated just how badly Romney has discouraged the base and taken away any energy from the rank and file. I would bet Obama takes a solid lead in the polls soon due to Conservatives dissatisfaction with the nominee, Dems re-energized, and Independents seeing Obama as a “winner.”

gumbyandpokey on July 3, 2012 at 10:11 AM

I don’t care what Romney’s surrogates say really…I’d vote for a dead Armadillo over the Unicorn Prince.

Aaaaand…more conservatives at every level of government.

workingclass artist on July 3, 2012 at 10:11 AM

If you do :) in the headlines, it comes out as a smiley face. Since I was excited to find this out, I am in no position to pass judgment on other peoples’ maturity. :)

Night Owl on July 3, 2012 at 10:08 AM

You can do frowny faces, too! :-(

I know, ri-ight?

lol

Fallon on July 3, 2012 at 10:12 AM

CJ Roberts…Romney…
Maybe it’s safe again to be a moderate Republican, and well reasoned debate will take back the seat at the table that the scorced earth right wing cons have been bitterly clinging to.

verbaluce on July 3, 2012 at 10:12 AM

As to the real topic. It wasn’t a tax. It has been “transformed” into a tax,

oldroy on July 3, 2012 at 10:03 AM

There are 20 other TAXES, besides the individual mandate TAX, in the law. Anyone sane can only call the entire law one thing and one thing only: TAX.

Stop repeating GOP talking points and read the law. Every company is already scrambling to see how TAXES will be dealt with, from those providing employee with benefits to medical device manufacturers. Dealing with TAXES.

I am sure Romney will be happy to explain to us how RomneyCare, already in the red to the tune of $500+ Million per year and SUBSIDIZED BY ALL TAXPAYERS IN STATES OTHER THAN MA, is not a tax. Will make for a nice comedy routine.

And this BS about states opting out is nothing but BS, same way we all subsidize deficit in MA RomneyCare all states that opt out of the mandate will still be subsidizing states do go along with HusseinCare. Shame no one is talking about it.

Interesting how GOP hacks who forced this liberal abomination down our throats in GOP primaries are all of a sudden so quiet in media since the FullRoberts last week. Where is Karl Rove these past few days with his little white board? Ann Coulter? Jed Bush? Lying hack RUBIO, who screwed us all in one fell swoop in FL primary?

Where are they now when everything that has been said and pointed out about Romney all along has come true? No doubt vacationing on that same island where Roberts is.

riddick on July 3, 2012 at 10:22 AM

I would bet Obama takes a solid lead in the polls soon due to Conservatives dissatisfaction with the nominee, Dems re-energized, and Independents seeing Obama as a “winner.”

gumbyandpokey on July 3, 2012 at 10:11 AM

And yet all polls and poll trends are showing just the opposite.

I would bet that you are wrong. It’s your opinion, you are entitled to it, but it doesn’t make it fact, or predict the future.

If there is one thing we’ve seen, Romney isn’t McCain. He’s willing to fight.

At this point 70% of America doesn’t know what to make of last weeks decision. Most people I talk to are saying: “How does one Supreme court justice get to transform what the bill says.” Most are just as concerned about the Legislative/Judicial shell game that happened, as much as the “is it a tax, is it a mandate?” ruling itself.

oldroy on July 3, 2012 at 10:22 AM

There are 20 other TAXES, besides the individual mandate TAX, in the law. Anyone sane can only call the entire law one thing and one thing only: TAX.

Anyone sane should be arguing both issues. It’s has be “ruled” a taxed. And the way it was “ruled” into “constitutionality” doesn’t look remotely like anything the constitution would allow.

oldroy on July 3, 2012 at 10:27 AM

It seems team Romney is sticking to this idiotic meme. Boned.

Mr. Arrogant on July 3, 2012 at 10:33 AM

riddick on July 3, 2012 at 10:05 AM

preach it brother. we are getting sick and tired of the romneybots telling us we are too stupid to appreciate how smart romney really is.

msnbc is having a field day showing romney on water ski’s in NH. a real fighter that romney LOL kerry much?

renalin on July 3, 2012 at 10:34 AM

If there is one thing we’ve seen, Romney isn’t McCain. He’s willing to fight.

oldroy on July 3, 2012 at 10:22 AM

Idiot! June-July 2008, McCain was fighting tooth and nail against the Teh’Won. Compared to that time, TODAY’S ROMNEY’S TEAM IS ACTUALLY SLEEPING.

LOLOL!Good luck to your Obamalite candidate! I now fully agree with Beck. Losing to a Communist like Teh’Won is not really that bad. It helps exposing the evil Liberal-Communists and Fake Conservatives live Romney, the Obamalite.

My family will just focus on the State-level elections. Here in Texas, our goal is to spread Pure conservatism.

TheAlamos on July 3, 2012 at 10:34 AM

Sustained unemployment is highest since the great depression and appears to be going higher!
Consumer confidence is low and appears to be going lower!
Manufacturing is lower than under George W Bush and tanking!
The country is on the verge of the second dip in a double dip recession and Obama and the Democrats in the Senate forced through, in the dark of night, behind closed doors, with trickery, bribes and one party rule, the largest tax increase in the history of the nation, a tax increase needing an additional 16,500 IRS agents to enforce it!
This in the middle of a recession, which he himself said is the wrong thing to do!
Is Obama stupid, inept, over his head, or purposefully harming America, take your pick but then vote for change!
Romney!

ConcealedKerry on July 3, 2012 at 10:35 AM

“Obamacare is the largest tax increase in history” is easy to understand and makes a great TV ad/talking point to hammer home over and over and over again. Arguing the Constitutional questions take time and nuance and long-winded blog posts to explain the finer points of the argument.

You win elections by making the simple, powerful argument that resonates with the people who don’t live and die politics. Romney is refusing to do this and will lose as a result.

gumbyandpokey on July 3, 2012 at 10:37 AM

“Sustained unemployment is highest since the great depression and appears to be going higher!
Consumer confidence is low and appears to be going lower!
Manufacturing is lower than under George W Bush and tanking!
The country is on the verge of the second dip in a double dip recession and Obama and the Democrats in the Senate forced through, in the dark of night, behind closed doors, with trickery, bribes and one party rule, the largest tax increase in the history of the nation, a tax increase needing an additional 16,500 IRS agents to enforce it!”

And Obama has surged to a 5 pt lead in the Gallup tracking poll with all that bad news.

Maybe Romney isn’t a very good candidate…

gumbyandpokey on July 3, 2012 at 10:39 AM

LOLOL!Good luck to your Obamalite candidate! I now fully agree with Beck. Losing to a Communist like Teh’Won is not really that bad. It helps exposing the evil Liberal-Communists and Fake Conservatives live Romney, the Obamalite.

My family will just focus on the State-level elections. Here in Texas, our goal is to spread Pure conservatism.

TheAlamos on July 3, 2012 at 10:34 AM

Good luck to Texas with Obama in a Second Term. Smart power!

oldroy on July 3, 2012 at 10:39 AM

Why is Fehrnstrom still employed with the Romney Campagin????
The guy is a disaster.

This just confirms my doubts about Romney’s chances this fall.

Norwegian on July 3, 2012 at 10:47 AM

One of Romney’s stronger points to make is that his law didn’t allow the government — or in his case, the “connector” — to tell you what kind of insurance plan you had to buy. So consumers could still get a high deductible plan (the Dems changed that after he left office). ObamaCare forces people to over insure and get coverage for smoking cessation, etc. It’s a much worse mandate than what Romney signed into law.

Heywood U. Reedmore on July 3, 2012 at 10:48 AM

And Obama has surged to a 5 pt lead in the Gallup tracking poll with all that bad news.

Maybe Romney isn’t a very good candidate…

gumbyandpokey on July 3, 2012 at 10:39 AM

Gallup. The Belle-weather of polls. – Registered Voters…..not likely voters.

Rasmussen has Romney up by 3% – with likely voters. Undecideds won’t be breaking for Obama. In addition, registered voters (who tend to poll a few percent to the left) in swing States have Romney ahead – in the CNN poll.

oldroy on July 3, 2012 at 10:49 AM

Anyone sane should be arguing both issues. It’s has be “ruled” a taxed. And the way it was “ruled” into “constitutionality” doesn’t look remotely like anything the constitution would allow.

oldroy on July 3, 2012 at 10:27 AM

You see me say that INDIVIDUAL mandate is not MANDATE? Grewat, show me.

Spend a bit of time trying to understand a post before you reply to it.

And speaking of the Constitution (not proper capitalization an reference), I am asking you, WHAT Constitution? When Chief Justice himself just told us last week it is null and void, years after Hussein and liberals trampled it and GOP did nothing in the process.

I ask again, WHAT Constitution?

Romney is a liberal moron, not that many of us haven’t pointed it out time and again, for insisting that RomneyCare is a TAX, but HusseinCare is not. Good luck with that idiocy and explaining it with a straight face that a tax is only a TAX when it is intra-state, but a penalty when it is inter-state. Only an idiot will buy this LIE.

And what does this make Romney when he expects a LIE to be his main campaign issue as of today.

riddick on July 3, 2012 at 10:49 AM

A “penalty” in MassCare is not unconstitutional. A “penalty” in Obamacare IS unconstitutional per Roberts’ ruling. Democrats can’t have it both ways. If it’s a tax, per Roberts it’s constitutionally valid. If it’s a penalty, it’s tyranny.

What Romney has said is that he doesn’t agree with Roberts that this is a “tax”. He agrees with the dissent that it’s a “penalty”. That would make it UNCONSTITUTIONAL in Romney’s view, just as it did with the dissenting justices.

Now, of course, Romney hasn’t come out blasting Roberts as having made the wrong call, and he’s not going to do that. It wouldn’t be politically smart. But that’s what he meant, and it’s not so nuanced that it shouldn’t be readily apparent to people who tune in to HotAir everyday. This isn’t deep thinking, folks. Politically, Romney is trying to attract moderates and independents. A shrill, combative tone isn’t necessary and wouldn’t change anything. What WILL change Obamacare is just as Romney said… in order to repeal Obamacare, we have to “repeal” Obama himself.

Mitt Romney IS our candidate. He’s the ONLY candidate who has a chance to send Obama packing. It’s time, well past time, to coalesce around him. The alternative is allowing Barack Obama a few more bites at the Supreme Court apple. And note that as deeply disappointing as Roberts’ ruling was, there was NEVER any question about how the liberals on the court would vote. Yeah, it’s a bit of a toss-up when Republicans nominate a justice. It’s a done deal though when Democrats do.

In-house squabbling is for the primaries, not for the general. The primary is OVER. Romney won. And no third party candidate, including Johnson, is in any stretch of the imagination viable. In fact, I find Johnson particularly disreputable in that if he actually CARED about defeating Barack Obama, he would be throwing his support to Romney right now, Instead, he’s acting the spoiler. Which means that he doesn’t SEE the absolute necessity of denying Obama a lame-duck term and more Supreme Court nominations.

Barack Obama has given us Sonia Sotomayor and Elena Kagan, who isn’t too sure she can’t force-feed us our broccoli. Only Romney can prevent them cloning. As disappointed as we are in Roberts right now, there’s just no contest here. There are no more opportunities for course correction if we allow Obama another term.

Murf76 on July 3, 2012 at 10:52 AM

My family will just focus on the State-level elections. Here in Texas, our goal is to spread Pure conservatism.

TheAlamos on July 3, 2012 at 10:34 AM

Good luck to Texas with Obama in a Second Term. Smart power!

oldroy on July 3, 2012 at 10:39 AM

Most R Texans will vote for Mittens to boot the socialists out…Don’t get your drawers in a twist.

workingclass artist on July 3, 2012 at 10:52 AM

And speaking of the Constitution (not proper capitalization an reference), I am asking you, WHAT Constitution? When Chief Justice himself just told us last week it is null and void, years after Hussein and liberals trampled it and GOP did nothing in the process.

I ask again, WHAT Constitution?

Only an idiot will buy this LIE.

riddick on July 3, 2012 at 10:49 AM

Wow. You speak with the eloquence of a Ron Paul supporter. I’ll never question your reasoning again.

oldroy on July 3, 2012 at 10:57 AM

Most R Texans will vote for Mittens to boot the socialists out…Don’t get your drawers in a twist.

workingclass artist on July 3, 2012 at 10:52 AM

You might want to look up a few posts to figure out who’s drawers are twisted.

oldroy on July 3, 2012 at 10:58 AM

You know what, that’s it. I’m not voting for Romney. If letting Obama be re-elected is the cost of having an actual conservative in the White House, then we might have to pay that price, rather than keep electing wolves in sheeps clothes.
This is just disgusting and proves Romney has no real intention of doing away with Obamacare.

ChristianRock on July 3, 2012 at 11:02 AM

“Rasmussen has Romney up by 3% – with likely voters. Undecideds won’t be breaking for Obama. In addition, registered voters (who tend to poll a few percent to the left) in swing States have Romney ahead – in the CNN poll.”

Didn’t Rasmussen botch the 2010 Senate elections badly?

gumbyandpokey on July 3, 2012 at 11:02 AM

Murdock is right, Romney is just too weak. He’s the Dukakis of Republicans, except he’s not really a Republican.

ChristianRock on July 3, 2012 at 11:03 AM

You know what, that’s it. I’m not voting for Romney. If letting Obama be re-elected is the cost of having an actual conservative in the White House, then we might have to pay that price, rather than keep electing wolves in sheeps clothes.
This is just disgusting and proves Romney has no real intention of doing away with Obamacare.

ChristianRock on July 3, 2012 at 11:02 AM

How do you figure? He’s saying that Roberts got it wrong and therefore Obamacare is NOT constitutional. What’s wrong with that? I think Roberts got it wrong too.

Murf76 on July 3, 2012 at 11:05 AM

Wow. You speak with the eloquence of a Ron Paul supporter. I’ll never question your reasoning again.

oldroy on July 3, 2012 at 10:57 AM

You can’t even begin to imagine just how wrong you are. But, hey, I did not have much hope for another RomneyBot, par for the course by now, keep lying to yourselves.

riddick on July 3, 2012 at 11:06 AM

Didn’t Rasmussen botch the 2010 Senate elections badly?

gumbyandpokey on July 3, 2012 at 11:02 AM

But you put stock in Gallup’s accuracy? None of these polls are fully accurate. All of these polls have errors in sampling, and errors in methods. All of these polls are ‘sponsored’.

oldroy on July 3, 2012 at 11:09 AM

Most R Texans will vote for Mittens to boot the socialists out…Don’t get your drawers in a twist.

workingclass artist on July 3, 2012 at 10:52 AM

You might want to look up a few posts to figure out who’s drawers are twisted.

oldroy on July 3, 2012 at 10:58 AM

Oh well…

Glad I live in Texas…just sayin’

http://dailycaller.com/2012/07/03/interview-with-texas-gov-rick-perry-uncommon-knowledge-with-peter-robinson

workingclass artist on July 3, 2012 at 11:18 AM

You can’t even begin to imagine just how wrong you are. But, hey, I did not have much hope for another RomneyBot, par for the course by now, keep lying to yourselves.

riddick on July 3, 2012 at 11:06 AM

Romneybot? No. But he won the nomination. I said you speak with the eloquence of a Ron Paul supporter. Meaning you alienate those you are trying to convince. I didn’t say you were actually a Paulestinian-Alien-Worshipper.

There wasn’t a single candidate that would have satisfied everyone. The shame is that we would be seeing flame-wars with any candidate at this point. I would have liked Palin to make a real run. I would’ve liked to see Gingrich not implode. I would have like Perry to not have had so many deer-in-the-headlight moments. Romney was far down my list.

But he is the nominee. If you don’t vote for him you are voting for Obama. It’s just that simple.

Taxes and the Constitution: I think to argue either without both, and to argue that the way we got where we are today with Obama-care Tax and the ruling aren’t both fully bull$hit, is not the right way.

Either way Obamacare is not Constitutional. Either way, what happened at the Supreme court is not Constitutional. This is the point. To argue that it’s Constitutional as a tax is crap. It’s not. To argue that it’s Constitutional as a mandate is crap. It’s not.

oldroy on July 3, 2012 at 11:25 AM

Either way Obamacare is not Constitutional. Either wayt what happened at the Supreme court is not Constitutional. This is the point. To argue that it’s Constitutional as a tax is crap

Half your post seems to try to convince how practical you are because you accepted Romney, but the other half shows how impractical you are because you can’t accept a SCOTUS ruling. Whether you think the ruling is constitutional or not, it has been ruled on. Independents and people who are not politically savvy understand higher taxes right off the bat. TO not use everything given in our political arsenal and and even call the mandate a tax is stupid, impractical and frankly giving the other side and advantage.

melle1228 on July 3, 2012 at 11:44 AM

We conservatives always knew this was a major weakness for Romney. He danced around it in the primaries, and is stuck with it in the general election. I’ll go on record here and now: Romney will not engineer repeal of Obamacare, though if we have Congress and the WH we could get the mandate/tax repealed; otherwise, we will be left with tinkering under the leadership of McConnell and Boehner. I’m so excited.

It is however possible, however technical the argument may be, to distinguish a state program from a federal program. SCOTUS ruled that Congress does not have the power under the Commerce Clause to compel people to buy health insurance. Hence the penalty had to fall because Congress can’t penalize people for not doing something Congress does not have the legal right to compel them to do. Roberts did not want to gut the statute, so he waved his wand and turned the penalty into a tax. Congress can tax us until the end of time.

If the MA legislature is not subject to the same constraint, then the penalty there is a penalty. Legally speaking.

The problem of course is that it really doesn’t matter: money is leaving your pocket and going into the government purse; taxation by any other name ….

UnrepentantCurmudgeon on July 3, 2012 at 11:47 AM

Either way Obamacare is not Constitutional. Either way, what happened at the Supreme court is not Constitutional. This is the point. To argue that it’s Constitutional as a tax is crap. It’s not. To argue that it’s Constitutional as a mandate is crap. It’s not.

The SCOTUS does not “argue”, it rules. Obamacare has been upheld, albeit on a flimsy ground which augurs more dangerous expansion of federal intrusion in our lives in the future.

As I stated above, Roberts was in a quandary. The mandate could not stand under the Commerce Clause, so that which everyone considered a penalty also could not stand, hence to save the law (which became his aim) he had to reconstruct the statute and call it a tax. Obama is running from that for all he’s worth, and any argument on Romney’s side is unduly legalistic for campaign purposes.

We needed this ruling while the primaries were in full swing.

UnrepentantCurmudgeon on July 3, 2012 at 11:51 AM

I think you missed the point. For Romney it is NOT a tax. For him it is still a mandate with a penalty. He gets attacked because he calls the dog a dog, although everybody else here is calling it a cat.

Gelsomina on July 3, 2012 at 12:43 AM

No, I get the point. He needs to call it both - in reality, it is a mandate, meaning the feds are compelling you to do something, and if you don’t, they will penalize you for not doing it. He then has to say that the court propped up this mandate scheme up by b.s.ing that it as a tax, something it isn’t. The effect is the same – fed compulsion of your activity. So, if the feds want to continue to push the mandate, THEY better be intellectually honest (cough) and start calling it a tax, and thus be saddled with what that means for them.

And Romney needs to have a come to Jesus moment where he tosses Romneycare under the bus as a completely bad idea, and now realizing what that will bring on the federal level, repudiates it. Hey, works for Barry with his college friends, pastors, contributors, etc.

My point is that just because the court called a cat a dog, doesn’t mean both species actually changed in real life. It means we are being asked to share in a delusion to achieve a certain outcome. Romney should NOT call it a tax as if he agrees with it. It isn’t – he should say “the court calls it that” and thus force Barry to accept the ruling as it is. Romney needs to use this situation in total, not just as some specific attack, to illustrate how various branches of govt. are now working together to strip the people of their rights, doing each other favors and expanding their own and each others powers, INSTEAD of being checks upon them.

Hence, Roberts could have shot the bill down and made Congress pass a correct one. That’s how our system works. But the political fallout would be too much for him, so instead, he legislated from the bench, salvaged a bill that didn’t exist, and fixed their problem for him. That’s not the court’s job.

Not any easy lesson to teach, but it is what needs taught and learned. Gawd knows social studies classes aren’t doing it.

This is why JUST voting Romney isn’t a solution. It’s a stop-gap measure at best. Nothing will get fixed until we return to an understanding of first principles of governance, understand what went wrong, and than work to fix it. Just putting Romney’s ass in office doesn’t guarantee any of that, only that the bleeding will slow.

Saltyron on July 3, 2012 at 11:54 AM

Either way Obamacare is not Constitutional.

oldroy on July 3, 2012 at 11:25 AM

Geez, its so tiring arguing with idiots.

WHO says HusseinCare is not Constitutional?

WHO?

YOUR opinion don’t mean crap last time i checked, neither does Romney’s nor any other GOP hack’s. Who are you idiots going to sue the make HusseinCare Constitutional? Who, prey tell us.

Get it through your thick head once and for all, then read my prior post as many times as you need to. And then answer the question.

WHO? When Chief Justice says it is.

Mass brainwashing on larger scale than at best days of USSR. RINOs all.

riddick on July 3, 2012 at 11:54 AM

This is pathetic. Romney is going to lose, he has shown pure impotence on three major issues lately: His inability to defend his record at Bain, his stammering after Obama’s dream act via executive order, and now his impotence on Obamacare which is a gift wrapped issue. Let alone that he hasn’t touched Fast and Furious and it looks like we have another McCain all over again, this is pathetic.

The campaign initially impressed me, they were quick on their feet in responding to small issues and good at fundraising, but you can’t just play small ball here. They’ve been caught flat footed repeatedly.

Daemonocracy on July 3, 2012 at 11:55 AM

Half your post seems to try to convince how practical you are because you accepted Romney, but the other half shows how impractical you are because you can’t accept a SCOTUS ruling. Whether you think the ruling is constitutional or not, it has been ruled on. Independents and people who are not politically savvy understand higher taxes right off the bat. TO not use everything given in our political arsenal and and even call the mandate a tax is stupid, impractical and frankly giving the other side and advantage.

melle1228 on July 3, 2012 at 11:44 AM

I think the way this happened is every bit as important as using the “it’s a tax” argument for political advantage. If you accept that the Supreme Court can lead the argument and change law all in one shot, I’d say that is every bit as important. This wasn’t “ruling” on law. It was making it up out of whole cloth.

Call it a tax. Fine. But are we just going to lay down and give Congress and the Supreme Court the lee-way to transform anything any way that they want? Doesn’t that scare the hell out of everyone? That isn’t just as important?

oldroy on July 3, 2012 at 11:56 AM

oldroy on July 3, 2012 at 11:25 AM

I think what they want is for Romney to spew venom at Roberts, and that’s not gonna happen. It’s not smart. For one thing, it would alienate the moderates he needs to attract, and for another, should Romney be elected, he would have poisoned his relationship with the Chief Justice.

They want red meat. They want the satisfaction of witnessing a political spectacle. What they won’t stop to consider is that Romney doesn’t NEED to emphasize the mandate. Obamacare raises taxes, it raids Medicare for a half-trillion, and adds trillions to the debt. Meanwhile, it does literally NOTHING to actually bring healthcare costs down and is extraordinarily intrusive to our privacy.

He’s actually a good candidate, better than what I’d hoped. Because he thinks before he acts and he acts with political shrewdness in order to maximize his chance to unseat Obama. The number one goal for each and every one of us ought to be defeating Obama. I don’t see our situation as recoverable if we allow him another term, a lame-duck term in which he has no political accountability.

Murf76 on July 3, 2012 at 11:56 AM

We needed this ruling while the primaries were in full swing.

UnrepentantCurmudgeon on July 3, 2012 at 11:51 AM

Thank you.

As you, I consider the timing much worse than Roberts’ judge and jury decision. And something tells me it was not by chance since Hussein wanted Romney all along, since Day 1. Too bad this was pointed out so many times and yet GOP hacks win the day.

riddick on July 3, 2012 at 11:58 AM

WHO says HusseinCare is not Constitutional?

WHO?

Call it an effing tax. No one is stopping you, you crybaby whiner. Why would you oppose any notion of how we got where we are is wrong?

Why would you oppose arguing that granting the Congress and the Supreme Court massive new authority that doesn’t exist is not something that should pass un-noticed, you crybaby whiner? So you and only you can be right? It’s your opinion you crybaby whiner. No one else is allowed to express their views here?

oldroy on July 3, 2012 at 12:03 PM

The campaign initially impressed me, they were quick on their feet in responding to small issues and good at fundraising, but you can’t just play small ball here. They’ve been caught flat footed repeatedly.

Daemonocracy on July 3, 2012 at 11:55 AM

You mean openly lying ads against GOP candidates were impressive?

Amazing.

Had Newt been a lying, cheating ass that Romney is, and ignored Rubio’s misguided request for Newt to stop the ads while not even making a whisper about Romney’s way more lying ads we’d most likely, extremely likely, have a different GOP candidate today. Not saying who, but definitely not Romney.

Main reason I fault not just the GOP media hacks, but Rubio, front and center.

riddick on July 3, 2012 at 12:06 PM

I think what they want is for Romney to spew venom at Roberts, and that’s not gonna happen. It’s not smart. For one thing, it would alienate the moderates he needs to attract, and for another, should Romney be elected, he would have poisoned his relationship with the Chief Justice

How’d you come up with that conclusion? Most of us want to move on from the ruling. You can’t change what the black robed tyrants did. You can only use it to your advantage. To change the law you need a lot of support and seats in Congress. Politically unsavvy people don’t understand unconstitutional, penalties etc. but they do understand that higher taxes mean less money in their pocket. Stop letting Obama frame our campaign. Geez what is so difficult about that. Every time the Obama side gasps in outrage or disagrees, Romney’s side backs down. Time to use everything we have. We are dealing with the Chicago machine. Better learn quick…

melle1228 on July 3, 2012 at 12:06 PM

For one thing, it would alienate the moderates.
Romney doesn’t NEED to emphasize the mandate.

Murf76 on July 3, 2012 at 11:56 AM

i’m fired up already. where can i get the bumper stickers?

renalin on July 3, 2012 at 12:07 PM

Call it an effing tax. No one is stopping you, you crybaby whiner. Why would you oppose any notion of how we got where we are is wrong?

Why would you oppose arguing that granting the Congress and the Supreme Court massive new authority that doesn’t exist is not something that should pass un-noticed, you crybaby whiner? So you and only you can be right? It’s your opinion you crybaby whiner. No one else is allowed to express their views here?

oldroy on July 3, 2012 at 12:03 PM

You’re even more of an idiot than thought at first.

Read my posts in other threads since you are way more clueless than even some liberals on HA.

Show me just one post of mine where I agree with Roberts. Or shut the hell up. Talk about whining.

riddick on July 3, 2012 at 12:08 PM

I think Mark Levin will be very entertaining at 6 pm tonite. He is going to blow a gasket over this messaging “issue”.

I am so d*mned sick of these squishy, spineless, gutless, nadless weasels in leadership in the GOP.

karenhasfreedom on July 3, 2012 at 12:11 PM

I am so d*mned sick of these squishy, spineless, gutless, nadless weasels in leadership in the GOP.

karenhasfreedom on July 3, 2012 at 12:11 PM

LOL– I would like to know why only the women in the GOP have the cajones :)

melle1228 on July 3, 2012 at 12:14 PM

I am so d*mned sick of these squishy, spineless, gutless, nadless weasels in leadership in the GOP.

karenhasfreedom on July 3, 2012 at 12:11 PM

They were hard at work passing that humongous highway bill laden with more back loaded spending than ever.

And Ryan needs more time to shop for a new calculator. Once he buys one he will start cutting spending. No, really, he said so who knows how many times in the past few years. He wouldn’t lie to us, would he?

riddick on July 3, 2012 at 12:16 PM

He’s actually a good candidate, better than what I’d hoped…
Murf76 on July 3, 2012 at 11:56 AM

All Romney needs is to be the grownup in the room…disciplined messaging etc. with the GOP.

GOP is making headway on the Obamacare argument despite Obama owning TV.

Otherwise stuff like this is shooting feet imho.

workingclass artist on July 3, 2012 at 12:19 PM

I think Mark Levin will be very entertaining at 6 pm tonite. He is going to blow a gasket over this messaging “issue”.

I am so d*mned sick of these squishy, spineless, gutless, nadless weasels in leadership in the GOP.

karenhasfreedom on July 3, 2012 at 12:11 PM

I quit listening to Levin when he expounded on building a wall in the middle of a 1200 mile river & called Gov. Perry an idiot for wanting SCOTUS term limits…now that Roberts chumped conservatives Levin is all for term limits for SCOTUS…sheesh!

workingclass artist on July 3, 2012 at 12:22 PM

melle1228 on July 3, 2012 at 12:06 PM

Not to worry, Melle. Everybody already knows it’s been ruled a “tax” by the Chief Justice. Romney is being smart here. Whenever a Democrat says, “no, it’s a penalty”, what they’re saying in essence is that they are complicit in standing behind an UNCONSTITUTIONAL act of tyranny. They can’t have it both ways. It’s either a tax (legal) or it’s a penalty (illegal).

When Romney agrees that it’s a “penalty”, what he’s saying is that it’s unconstitutional and that he doesn’t agree with Roberts. There’s no need to be shrill or hysterical in making that point. People really do ‘get it’. We’re not as stupid as Democrats think we are.

Romney’s BEST selling point is presenting himself to voters as a grown-up, an accomplished ADULT, after four years of Democrat Romper Room. He can’t go all rabid and frothy and still get results.

Murf76 on July 3, 2012 at 12:31 PM

You’re even more of an idiot than thought at first.

Read my posts in other threads since you are way more clueless than even some liberals on HA.

Show me just one post of mine where I agree with Roberts. Or shut the hell up. Talk about whining.

riddick on July 3, 2012 at 12:08 PM

Go up the thread and look at what you’ve assumed….calm down.

oldroy on July 3, 2012 at 12:33 PM

I know I’m late to this thread, but I need to vent a little myself. The way I see it, Romney is going to let his pride get in the way of him becoming the next President. If anyone from his campaign happens to read this, then read carefully. John Roberts gave you an out from your Massachusetts healthcare law (screw-up), all you have to do is reconsider the mandate as a tax, which it is and blast Obama with loud speakers over the tax increase, which it is.

DDay on July 3, 2012 at 12:33 PM

workingclass artist on July 3, 2012 at 12:19 PM

Agreed. I just posted as much, but I think I’m hung up in the que.

Murf76 on July 3, 2012 at 12:34 PM

Show me just one post of mine where I agree with Roberts. Or shut the hell up. Talk about whining.

riddick on July 3, 2012 at 12:08 PM

So you spend your posts calling it a tax, and then you say you don’t agree with Roberts…..

oldroy on July 3, 2012 at 12:35 PM

This guy is not an arms length surrogate who got their wires crossed. This guy is from the inner sanctum of the Willard campaign. “Etch a Sketch” and “not a tax” are direct from Romney.

wraithby on July 3, 2012 at 12:37 PM

I know I’m late to this thread, but I need to vent a little myself. The way I see it, Romney is going to let his pride get in the way of him becoming the next President. If anyone from his campaign happens to read this, then read carefully. John Roberts gave you an out from your Massachusetts healthcare law (screw-up), all you have to do is reconsider the mandate as a tax, which it is and blast Obama with loud speakers over the tax increase, which it is.

DDay on July 3, 2012 at 12:33 PM

He can’t do that and still maintain that the penalty is unconstitutional at the federal level. Roberts’ contortion does make Obamacare the law of the land. That doesn’t make it right. I still don’t believe the Individual Mandate is truly constitutional. I believe a terrible injustice has been done. I believe there was no basis realistically to call that penalty a “tax”.

What Romney is saying, politely, is that Roberts’ twisted ruling is unacceptable in his opinion. I agree. It’s unacceptable in mine too. And even though the SC finds it legal, my opinion is still mine to have.

Murf76 on July 3, 2012 at 12:42 PM

Murf76 on July 3, 2012 at 12:42 PM

We will agree on one thing, the SC did get it wrong and it is a twisted decision. But, the buck stops there. You can not change that which has been done, you have to deal with it accordingly. If, Romney thinks agreeing with Obama will get him elected, then good luck. And another thing, calling Obama a nice guy will surely make a great ad for the Obama campaign. Just look how they are destroying his personal character with their ads. Would a nice guy do this?

DDay on July 3, 2012 at 12:54 PM

You liberals are soo funny.

DannoJyd on July 3, 2012 at 7:33 AM

And greater is “our” shame, when “we” consider the impeccable role model you have been while influencing others to see your viewpoint.

I hope you laugh well when your state goes Blue unnecessarily in November. Bottle and save the Mirth. It will become a valued commodity.

rwenger43 on July 3, 2012 at 12:59 PM

Why do politicians and their “teams” habitually fail to see the power of contrition? They contort themselves into pretzels to avoid ever admitting a mistake and, in so doing, miss a golden opportunity to do two things: (a) connect with the public as a human being, and (b) make their opponent look like exactly what they are (especially in this case when the opponent is omniscient, approaching infallibility).

Mitt Romney has the strongest weapon there is in the political arsenal (experience) to use against The One and he fails to see it. His advisers fail to see it. They’re showing themselves to be first rate amateurs getting into games of semantics over taxes and penalties and (who the h** cares).

Mitt Romney has the power to do what no other candidate for President at this moment can do (not because of his brilliance — he’s not my first choice but he’s in the saddle so ride on I say).

Mitt Romney can utter these words: “We tried this public mandated health care in Massachusetts when I was Governor. It was a bad idea. It’s still a bad idea. I’ve been there, done that. And I have one word for America, “Don’t.”

The power of “I made a mistake and I might make others — nobody’s perfect despite what my opponent might suggest — but I won’t make the same mistake twice” is palpable. Yet, politicians run from it as if it were radioactive.

We’re looking for leaders, not gods. When will they figure that out?

IndieDogg on July 3, 2012 at 1:01 PM

This guy is not an arms length surrogate who got their wires crossed. This guy is from the inner sanctum of the Willard campaign. “Etch a Sketch” and “not a tax” are direct from Romney.

wraithby on July 3, 2012 at 12:37 PM

Except that Romney is on video saying it is TAX. And he won’t be able to ignore it.

riddick on July 3, 2012 at 1:04 PM

We will agree on one thing, the SC did get it wrong and it is a twisted decision. But, the buck stops there. You can not change that which has been done, you have to deal with it accordingly. If, Romney thinks agreeing with Obama will get him elected, then good luck. And another thing, calling Obama a nice guy will surely make a great ad for the Obama campaign. Just look how they are destroying his personal character with their ads. Would a nice guy do this?

DDay on July 3, 2012 at 12:54 PM

+1000

riddick on July 3, 2012 at 1:06 PM

DDay on July 3, 2012 at 12:54 PM

If Obama says straight up… “no, no, no, this isn’t a tax which has been ruled as constitutional, it’s a penalty which has been ruled as UNconstitutional”, wouldn’t you agree with him? In essence, Obama is admitting that Obamacare is NOT constitutional and that he’s still willing to foist it off on us.

Everybody in this country, with the apparent exception of John Roberts, KNOWS that the individual mandate is in actuality a penalty. That makes it UNCONSTITUTIONAL. The mandate is only upheld by calling it a “tax” in one of the most incredible judicial contortions this nation has ever seen. Romney’s not covering for these people. He’s prodding them. He’s rubbing the illegality of their actions and their hypocrisy in their face. Obama says, in essence, “what I did was unconstitutional”. Romney says “yup, it was unconstitutional and I’m going to repeal it on day one”.

Murf76 on July 3, 2012 at 1:12 PM

This election is OVER. Romney had his chance to hammer, hammer and hammer again on the Obamacare tax issue. It’s easy to understand and easy to communicate. But it’s all gone now. Obamacare is now a winner for the President, who is seen as the “winner”of the fight.

Hope every Republican who voted for Romney in the primaries is really happy right now. You got your guy! Enjoy McCain part II!

gumbyandpokey on July 3, 2012 at 9:52 AM

Are you really in the low information voter category??The SCOTUS ruled a few days ago that the ‘mandate’ is actually a tax, so when was exactly that fat chance that Romney had to hammer it as a tax? Over the weekend when everybody is busy with recreational activities and nobody watches TV…Oh, so you gave him 2 days, he didn’t do or better yet his campaign didn’t even have a chance to put ads out there yet, or even refine their position on the whole thing (other than obamacare is bad law regadless of the SCOTUS decision, which Romney reiterated day in and day out since said ruling) but you decided that it’s all gone and lost now…not to mention the lack of logic of your argument, if 0 is seen as fhe winner of the fight as you claimed he is (in reality he isn’t, look at the polls, they didn’t move one inch in his direction on the healthcare issue), so anyways, if reductio ad absurdum he is seen as a victor in this, that could at best be blamed on the SCOTUS’s decision, what does this have to do with Romney, was he supposed to dream how the SCOTIUS would rule on this, or was he on the Court a d involved in the ruling… Rigght…don’t let logic get in the way of uour opinion…

jimver on July 3, 2012 at 1:16 PM

This is not about repealing Obamacare but the mentality that infests so many government that they think they are more fit to tell you how to lead your life and will use any power to coerce you to do as they say.

This doesn’t end on election day, or the day after, or in one year, of four years, or eight years, but will last you the rest of your life to claw back freedom and liberty from the Progressive Era that is looking to turn us all into clients and servants of the State.

This is the long, long, long war coming up.

ajacksonian on July 3, 2012 at 7:30 AM

I think we all agree.

The biggest problem will be Target Discipline. Folks on our side get impatient with fighting the enemy they can’t always find, so we turn on the allies who we think aren’t fighting as hard as us, as skillfully as us, or as purely as us. And instead of using a weapon appropriate for confronting slackers, we use the sniper rifle meant for the enemy. We are not interested in learning how to interact with other fighters positively.

We will prevent ourselves from winning any protracted war of ideals if we have not defined our objectives.

rwenger43 on July 3, 2012 at 1:16 PM

We’re looking for leaders, not gods. When will they figure that out?

IndieDogg on July 3, 2012 at 1:01 PM

When we stop shooting them for not being gods.
When we stop comparing them unfavorably to President Kardashian.

IDK. What do you think is the right answer?

rwenger43 on July 3, 2012 at 1:22 PM

And instead of using a weapon appropriate for confronting slackers, we use the sniper rifle meant for the enemy.

rwenger43 on July 3, 2012 at 1:16 PM

Name the weapon you’re talking about. You mean GOP primaries? That weapon? Which was rendered useless by Roberts last week since we’re past the point of weeding out all the GOP slackers in Congress.

Next chance is what, 2014? Most likely way too late at that point.

Roberts’ con job wouldn’t be as bad had it been announced a few months back.

Thanks for your thoughtful analysis of the situation.

The only weapon left to us at this point if complete defunding of HusseinCare in the House. Good luck with that.

riddick on July 3, 2012 at 1:26 PM

Had Newt been a lying, cheating ass that Romney is, and ignored Rubio’s misguided request for Newt to stop the ads while not even making a whisper about Romney’s way more lying ads we’d most likely, extremely likely, have a different GOP candidate today. Not saying who, but definitely not Romney.

Main reason I fault not just the GOP media hacks, but Rubio, front and center.

riddick on July 3, 2012 at 12:06 PM

That’s counterfactual (‘what if’) and therefore not a very intelligent or effective starting point for an argument, any argument for that matter..

jimver on July 3, 2012 at 1:27 PM

Oh, so you gave him 2 days, he didn’t do or better yet his campaign didn’t even have a chance to put ads out there yet, or even refine their position on the whole thing (other than obamacare is bad law regadless of the SCOTUS decision, which Romney reiterated day in and day out since said ruling)

jimver on July 3, 2012 at 1:16 PM

Talk about logic.

Here is RomneyCare for you:

The text of Romneycare describes the individual mandate, in Section 2(b), as a “tax” to be collected by the state…

And no, Romney has NOT been denying it “day and day out”, he only made statement and nothing since. Watching same statement multiple times does make it “day in and day out”.

On Rubio above, care to point out what was counterfactual in my post instead of simply bleating about it without being specific, as is typical of a liberal where is nothing to argue about?

riddick on July 3, 2012 at 1:39 PM

Murf76 on July 3, 2012 at 1:12 PM

Both your argument and point are valid, but both involve semantics. Penalty as it stands is unconstitutional based on Robert’s rationale, but congress has the right to tax, ergo Obamacare past muster on constitutionality. This is not going to change. There will only be one way to achieve a desired results with this decision. Agree with the SC it is a tax and campaign on this premise. Other than conservatives, most of us here on HA, no one cares.

DDay on July 3, 2012 at 1:39 PM

And no, Romney has NOT been denying it “day and day out”, he only made ONE statement and nothing since. Watching same statement multiple times does NOT make it “day in and day out”.

riddick on July 3, 2012 at 1:40 PM

My point is that just because the court called a cat a dog, doesn’t mean both species actually changed in real life.

Saltyron on July 3, 2012 at 11:54 AM

Good reasoning in your comment as a whole, Saltyron.

But we should call it a tax anyway, according to many on this thread, “because people hate taxes and we can trick them all into voting against Obama this way. Shhhh. Don’t tell anyone, but we don’t really believe it’s a tax ourselves. It’s just that independents are so stupid that if we say that Roberts called it a tax, they’ll be fooled into thinking that Obama was lying and they’ll vote for Romney. Meanwhile, though, since Romney agreed with the SC dissent and argued it wasn’t a tax, that’s just so infuriating that we’ll be voting in protest for Gary Johnson or writing in Sarah Palin’s name.”

Did I get that right?

Burke on July 3, 2012 at 1:42 PM

Except that Romney is on video saying it is TAX. And he won’t be able to ignore it.

riddick on July 3, 2012 at 1:04 PM

Mittens doing what he does best: on both sides of every issue. An echo not a choice!!

wraithby on July 3, 2012 at 2:01 PM

Agree with the SC it is a tax and campaign on this premise.

DDay on July 3, 2012 at 1:39 PM

To agree with Roberts that it’s a tax is to agree with his contortions on the subject. Better to agree with dissent, as Romney has done. That way, we claim the high ground of honesty.

Remember, that the difference between Romney and Democrats both noting that this thing is really a penalty, and thus unconstitutional… is that Romney want it repealed and Democrats are still defending it.

Murf76 on July 3, 2012 at 2:08 PM

Better to agree with dissent, as Romney has done. That way, we claim the high ground of honesty.

Murf76 on July 3, 2012 at 2:08 PM

Honesty? Did you really post that in reference to Romney, who is on video calling it a TAX? Passing a law in MA that calls it a TAX?

Doesn’t matter what Romney calls it TODAY, he’s been on record for years now and never backed down from that in primaries. Was NEVER apologetic on the subject.

Really doesn’t matter what Romney says.

Whether we here call it tax or penalty, the reality is that we have no way of stopping it, with Romney in WH or not. When GOP Congress members are already saying there is little chance of repeal it doesn’t really matter what we do on Nov. 6th, its not YOUR and MY votes and views that will count, its those of Boehner and McConnell.

I just wish people stop making excuses for Romney where there is no justification for that. His record, on all subjects, is fairly long and well defined by now.

riddick on July 3, 2012 at 2:17 PM

I’ve canceled my recurring donations to his camp. I’m one of those on the fence about him. No, I’m not an Obama supporter. I’m a social conservative, and comments like this aren’t what America needs to hear. I let his camp know in writing why I canceled my donations.

If money talks, he’d better listen.

madmonkphotog on July 3, 2012 at 2:21 PM

An adviser said something stupid, just like Obama advisers have said stupid things, and Bush advisers have said stupid things, and Clinton and Bush Sr and Reagan and so on and so forth.

Yeah, it’s a dumb thing to say that and undercut your own position. That said, we usually don’t hold the candidate responsible for the poor judgement of a single adviser.

Now if you’re saying that adviser should be booted, yes, thats a valid viewpoint, and I’d support that. Honestly though, looking at the comments, it looks to me as if most people paying attention to this are just looking for a reason to grumble about the candidate.

Understandable to a degree, Romney is just a little more centrist than I would’ve liked. He was also by far the best of a miserably bad lot however, and he does have admirable points to offset his centrist tilt somewhat.

WolvenOne on July 3, 2012 at 2:27 PM

riddick on July 3, 2012 at 2:17 PM

Yes. Honesty.
What’s the guy supposed to do?… join Roberts in his ridiculous contortions? Of course not. This decision was gibberish. Who could find merit in it and still expect to be taken seriously?

Murf76 on July 3, 2012 at 2:30 PM

Whether we here call it tax or penalty, the reality is that we have no way of stopping it, with Romney in WH or not. When GOP Congress members are already saying there is little chance of repeal it doesn’t really matter what we do on Nov. 6th, its not YOUR and MY votes and views that will count, its those of Boehner and McConnell.

I just wish people stop making excuses for Romney where there is no justification for that. His record, on all subjects, is fairly long and well defined by now.

riddick on July 3, 2012 at 2:17 PM

Then put yourself out of your misery and vote for Obama or sit it out,, they are both options, you know…oh or vote for that guy johnson, whatever his fist name is…as for the excuses people make for Romney or not, it’s their right to opine, same as it is yours to rant about anything and everything, which you do, plenty…

jimver on July 3, 2012 at 2:48 PM

But we should call it a tax anyway, according to many on this thread, “because people hate taxes and we can trick them all into voting against Obama this way. Shhhh. Don’t tell anyone, but we don’t really believe it’s a tax ourselves. It’s just that independents are so stupid that if we say that Roberts called it a tax, they’ll be fooled into thinking that Obama was lying and they’ll vote for Romney. Meanwhile, though, since Romney agreed with the SC dissent and argued it wasn’t a tax, that’s just so infuriating that we’ll be voting in protest for Gary Johnson or writing in Sarah Palin’s name.”

Did I get that right?

Burke on July 3, 2012 at 1:42 PM

Basically, yes :)…

jimver on July 3, 2012 at 2:50 PM

Yes. Honesty.
What’s the guy supposed to do?…

Murf76 on July 3, 2012 at 2:30 PM

What’s honest about lying?

You really expect a liar to be taken seriously? Romney’s stance has NOTHING to do with Roberts. ROMNEY said its a TAX, ON RECORD, A NUMBER OF TIMES.

And instead of coming clean and admitting that RomneyCare is as much an abomination as is HusseinCare (although admittedly on much smaller scale and with the deficit paid for by the other 49 states) he is now “disagreeing” with Roberts. How original of him…

So, to sum up. First, Coleman is caught stating that Romney has no intention of repealing the law. Then, his second in command, and one of those responsible for the MA RomneyCare TAX now mumbles something on TV that well, you know, each state is different when asked a direct question. What does “each state is different” when RomneyCare only exists in frigging MA only for now? Romney then decides to double down on stupid and calls t a “penalty” (which is all agree with, BTW), but then conveniently forgets that up until last Thursday he called it a TAX. EACH and EVERY TIME.

Romney now makes does what’s right and calls it a TAX, then admits that YES, HE F__D UP ROYALLY and he WILL CORRECT HIS WAYS and also work on REPEALING RomneyCare. Or he is done.

All that Hussein campaign has to do is assemble Romney’s own words to make it an easy time for voters. You know, Romney and his son insisting time and again that “Obama is a nice guy”, Romney calling RomneyCare a TAX, who knows how many times, Romney insisting RomneyCare is GREAT, GREAT I tell you! even in GOP Primaries, etc, etc, etc.

Romney either starts to be honest with us, and WITH HIMSELF, or he is toast.

Honest is not what Romney has represented throughout his record. Not even close when your “honesty” is dependent on time of day and weather cycles.

riddick on July 3, 2012 at 2:51 PM

Geez, sorry…

If Romney now does not do what’s right…

riddick on July 3, 2012 at 2:53 PM

Here is RomneyCare for you:

The text of Romneycare describes the individual mandate, in Section 2(b), as a “tax” to be collected by the state…

And no, Romney has NOT been denying it “day and day out”, he only made statement and nothing since. Watching same statement multiple times does make it “day in and day out”.

On Rubio above, care to point out what was counterfactual in my post instead of simply bleating about it without being specific, as is typical of a liberal where is nothing to argue about?

riddick on July 3, 2012 at 1:39 PM

Dude, it’s been 4 days since fhe ruling, with a weekend in between, take your chill pill already…and yes, he said that obamacare is bad law in every recent speech, definitely more than in just that one statement that you referred to… He said what needed to be said, what now, does he need to say it, what, 10 times a day, is that a good enough figure for you ??…you think that if he says it ten times a day, more indies will be persuaded and rally to his cause, or what exacfly is your point…And who exactly should be persuaded of what?? To the cons it doesn’t matter if it’s a tax or mandate, it’s a bad law, period, that needs to be repealed ( which ROmney reiterated countless times)…The informed indies, for most part they were and are suspicious of the law and most see it unfavorably…so, in the end it all boils down to about 10% of the indies who seem to be undecided…so they will come out with a strategy to spoon feed the truth about obamacare to these 10% low information indie voters (according to Ed at least) …if it will work or not, it’s anybody’s guess…a low information voter is just that, an ignorant airhead who makes every effort to stay that way, what exactly do you suggest concretely, make an incision in their brains and introduce information there…it’s the state of a not so small portion of the US electorate, sad but true, deal with it…more worth of ranting that Romney’s campign confusion over a umm, confusing SCOTUS ruling…

As for the counterfactual part, that ‘s what it is normally called…when you go ‘oh, if we didn’t nominated ROmney, but X and Y things would have been x and z…that’s exactly what you did in that post…

jimver on July 3, 2012 at 3:28 PM

I don’t expect Romney to be anything other than Romney…and since a ham sandwich,dead armadillo or a convicted felon could win this election with a modicum of competency that is preferable to Obama & company.

“President Obama has never been particularly popular in West Virginia, and even though he’s an incumbent president running essentially unopposed, Tuesday’s Democratic primary in the Appalachian state didn’t change that dynamic.

More than 40percent of Democrats voting chose to cast their ballot for Keith Russell Judd, an inmate at the Beaumont Federal Correctional Institution in Beaumont, Texas, where he’s doing time for extortion and threats made at the University of New Mexico in 1999.

Judd scored 42.28 percent of the vote — or 49,490 votes — compared with President Obama with 57.72 percent, or 67,562, according to unofficial state results.

Neither Mr. Obama nor Mr. Judd – who is in prison – physically campaigned in the state.”

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/05/prison-inmate-wins-more-than-40-of-democratic-vote-over-presid

workingclass artist on July 3, 2012 at 3:36 PM

Romney now makes does what’s right and calls it a TAX, then admits that YES, HE F__D UP ROYALLY and he WILL CORRECT HIS WAYS and also work on REPEALING RomneyCare. Or he is done.

riddick on July 3, 2012 at 2:51 PM

I think you got a bit excited there and if I’m reading it right, your opinion is that Romney ought to call it a tax, both for Obamacare and Masscare, and then apologize for being wrong, correct?

If so, here’s the problem… Taxes are for raising revenue. They aren’t punishments for wrongdoing. A penalty is a punishment for wrongdoing.

Roberts ruled this thing as a tax, and by law, that’s the reality we’re going to have to live with for the foreseeable future. That doesn’t mean that we all have to give our blessings to his contorted reasoning. Romney hasn’t. I won’t either.

Murf76 on July 3, 2012 at 4:50 PM

The question must be asked:

Since when, in this day and age, do we differentiate between a penalty and a tax?

Hotgassians, help me out, here.

mintycrys on July 3, 2012 at 5:54 PM

Romney is beginning to morph into McCain. If he blows this, the Republican Party will become a vague, bad memory. He needs to get rid of those jerks running his campaign and find some intelligent, tough people.

rplat on July 3, 2012 at 6:57 PM

I hope you laugh well when your state goes Blue unnecessarily in November.

rwenger43 on July 3, 2012 at 12:59 PM

Aww! Aren’t you cute!

I remember you and the other Romney supporters from the 2008 and 2010 election cycles. You folks were doing your ‘patriotic’ duty of keeping your threadbare lazy boy recliners warn while I, the AWE inspiring Danno Man was manning the phone banks, assembling lawn signs, working the meet and greet assemblys, working all day as a poll watcher… Why, I’m SHOCKED by the effect YOU and YOURS HAD in giving us that HISTORIC WIN in 2010 with your total lack of efforts! Without any doubt your efforts were priceless… because they added up to ZERO! They were nil, nada, zip.

You are right. I was a WORKING part of the effort that finally kicked out the corrupt-o-crats in Michigan and gave We The People control again after too many years just as I was part of the effort that gave McLame his WIN in my county. I should probably thank you for not getting in the way…

SO! Let’s now hear about how you plan on working to kick 0bama out of office. Yes, we know that you support 0bama’s second term via Rom0bama, but what exactly will you be doing?

Nothing? Again? Thought so! /smug

DannoJyd on July 3, 2012 at 7:22 PM

I think you got a bit excited there and if I’m reading it right, your opinion is that Romney ought to call it a tax, both for Obamacare and Masscare, and then apologize for being wrong, correct?

If so, here’s the problem… Taxes are for raising revenue. They aren’t punishments for wrongdoing. A penalty is a punishment for wrongdoing.

Roberts ruled this thing as a tax, and by law, that’s the reality we’re going to have to live with for the foreseeable future. That doesn’t mean that we all have to give our blessings to his contorted reasoning. Romney hasn’t. I won’t either.

Murf76 on July 3, 2012 at 4:50 PM

RomneyCare CLEARLY states its a TAX. Describes it as TAX to be deducted from TAX returns.

Care to propose how Romney is going to spin that?

I am not alone in seeing the only way out of this for Romney is to finally admit that he royally screwed up with this liberal wet dream, what with all that bear hugging and dancing with Ted Kennedy with ink still wet.

Even Kraut now, after initially claiming “silver lining” in the FullRoberts, quickly back-tracked in the matter of hours and now sees one and only one way out of this mess for Romney.

riddick on July 3, 2012 at 7:23 PM

Re-elect NO ONE 2012
PappyD61 on July 3, 2012 at 9:07 AM

And if perchance Romney does get elected, he will govern to the left-of-center if for no other reason than to make the Democrats hate him less than they already do… and he’ll get invited to appear on MSNBC!
Mahdi on July 3, 2012 at 9:09 AM

And if perchance Romney does get elected, he will govern to the left-of-center if for no other reason than to make the Democrats hate him less than they already do… and he’ll get invited to appear on MSNBC!
Mahdi on July 3, 2012 at 9:09 AM

Republicans are allowing the liberals to frame the argument yet again.
cajunpatriot on July 3, 2012 at 9:47 AM

After all of the HARD work put in by THOUSANDS of TEA Party Patriots which gave us the HISTORIC 2010 TEAnami, now is not the time to quit. There are plenty of reasons to be disgusted with the GOP insiders who are caving in on us, but now is not the time to quit. The RINO’s HAVE BEGUN to circle their wagons in preparation of securing their bases of power, but NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO QUIT!

The real race has yet to begin. There are other candidates who will be on the ballot in November who are not Rom0bama, so you still have a chance to make a difference. Everyone talks about holding your nose while voting for liberal Romney, but you do have other options.

If you don’t like the way the election is going [I certainly do not] then fight. Find out where your local TEA Party is located and join the effort. Learn where your loval GOP Victory HQ. is/will be located and volunteer. Infiltration of the enemy is a long time honored tradition, and these politicians are supposed to Represent YOU!

Do the research, get involved, and stay determined. That is how we beat the insiders of both partys in 2010. That is how YOU can beat them this November.

No one has to vote for Gary Johnson this year, but I believe I will. He represents many of my beliefs. Maybe he represents many of yours too.

DannoJyd on July 3, 2012 at 7:42 PM

My apologizes to the fine folks working at/running Hot Air, but I feel the need to again express my views to the RomBots who happily attacked me with their filth filled liberal rhetoric, allegations, and worse when I pointed out how BAD Willard was going to be this year.

You Rombots are still sore from the crotch kick the Romney campaign team gave you [don't lie about it], and while some believe it isn’t nice to kick a person when they are down …

TOLD YA SO!!!

Ahh! That’s better. /smug

DannoJyd on July 3, 2012 at 7:49 PM

Wow. Both of you moron clowns still swinging axes in every direction. Like cornered rattlesnakes. You might notice that there is no one around. Save your energy. You’ve got 4 months of the Romney campaign left to try to sabotage.

oldroy on July 3, 2012 at 10:19 PM

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