Romney advisor: You’re right, the ObamaCare mandate isn’t a tax

posted at 9:54 pm on July 2, 2012 by Allahpundit

When you nominate the man responsible for RomneyCare, don’t be surprised if his team’s reluctant to embrace Roberts’s argument that a mandate is a tax. Even if everyone else in the party has spent the past five days happily rubbing The One’s face in it.

Over at Breitbart.com, Joel Pollak urges Romney to get it together:

Fehrnstrom allowed Chuck Todd to push him off message–and re-ignited the fears that conservatives have long had about Romney’s will and ability to fight. In response, conservatives–who had just coalesced around opposition to what many now call “Obamatax”–exhort: Mitt, start fighting, or give up and let someone else do it.

Fehrnstrom’s point–in defense of Romneycare–was that the Supreme Court was wrong to uphold Obamacare under the taxing power. The individual mandate was never intended to be a tax, Congress never called it a tax, and it wasn’t a tax in Massachusetts, either. Fine–but now that Obama’s lawyers went to court and called it a tax, and Chief Justice John Roberts called it a tax (and spare us the non-distinction between “tax” and the “taxing power”) Obamacare is, undeniably, a massive tax on the middle class. Obama lied. It’s that simple.

The GOP primary is over, and this is not a mistake that Fehrnstrom can merely shake away. It’s going to be used–and already is being used–by the Obama campaign to save itself from the tax argument, and to label Romney as a liar (when that label belongs squarely on Obama, who campaigned against Hillary Clinton’s individual mandate in 2008).

Tom Maguire says Fehrnstrom should have fallen back on the federalism argument that Romney’s used in the past to distinguish a state program like RomneyCare from an unconstitutional federal power grab like ObamaCare. Would that still work, though? Now that the Court’s upheld O’s signature boondoggle, the “RomneyCare = legal, ObamaCare = illegal” defense doesn’t really fly. I’m not sure that it ever really did: The reason RomneyCare’s such a liability for Mitt isn’t because it’s constitutionally questionable but because it’s a hair-raising government expansion that ended up blazing a trail for O-Care. To me, Romney’s federalism indictment of ObamaCare always smacked of him saying to voters, “Don’t worry! Legally, as president, I couldn’t impose my Massachusetts plan on you even if I wanted to.” Um, great.

I think that argument’s even weaker when it comes to taxes just because alarms start going off in people’s heads at the mention of the word. Hard to think of federalism niceties when you’re focused on more money potentially being sucked out of your pocket. That said, though, Pollak’s right: I think you have to hit O on the “tax” charge even if Romney’s a terribly flawed messenger for it. It’s viscerally effective and you can count on most low-information voters not to know or learn that Romney had a little tax-penalty-mandate of his own in Massachusetts. If worse comes to worst, he can always claim that Massachusetts residents love to pay taxes — which isn’t strictly true, but is true enough that they keep electing Democrats — and that most Americans don’t, and he’ll govern accordingly. Unlike The One.

Two clips for you, one of advisor Eric Fehrnstrom and the other via NRO of Krauthammer urging Romney to be just as hypocritical about this as Obama and Democrats are. Exit quotation via Mitt spokeswoman Andrea Saul: “The federal individual mandate in Obamacare is either a constitutional tax or an unconstitutional penalty. Governor Romney thinks it is an unconstitutional penalty. What is President Obama’s position?”


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BTW, I don’t trust anyone who wears those glasses…sorry.

d1carter on July 2, 2012 at 10:37 PM

When you nominate the man responsible for RomneyCare, don’t be surprised if his team’s reluctant to embrace Roberts’s argument that a mandate is a tax. Even if everyone else in the party has spent the past five days happily rubbing The One’s face in it.

Just so we are clear here, Allahpundit is asking us to blame “the man responsible for RomneyCare” for agreeing with Justices Scalia and Thomas. There is absolutely nothing Romney or his spokesmen could say that wouldn’t be twisted into Romney somehow supporting Obamacare. I think it is despicable for AP to be that willing to twist anyone else’s words for AP’s agenda, and AP’s agenda seems be simply one of smearing Romney.

thuja on July 2, 2012 at 10:38 PM

I NEED A DRINK. AND I DON’T EVEN DRINK.
I NEED DRUGS. AND I DON’T DO DRUGS.
HARD DRUGS. VERY, VERY, VERY, MIND NUMBING DRUGS. PRONTO!

GhoulAid on July 2, 2012 at 10:15 PM

I checked with my dealer, Fat Alice.She says there are absolutely no drugs invented that will help with this clusterfark.

katy the mean old lady on July 2, 2012 at 10:39 PM

Romney should ditch this idiot right away. He even looks like a wuss and his stupidly shaped glasses. There are certain physical looks for liberal men and this fool fit it.

mnjg on July 2, 2012 at 10:39 PM

BTW, I don’t trust anyone who wears those glasses…sorry.

d1carter on July 2, 2012 at 10:37 PM

I totally agree and just made a similar comment. He looks like a liberal wuss and those glasses are usually worn by liberal men, too feminine…

mnjg on July 2, 2012 at 10:40 PM

You think Santorum would be immune from this kind of thing?

I certainly don’t. Ask Herman Cain if conservatives don’t have jackass self-aggrandizing advisers who shoot their campaigns in the foot.

KingGold on July 2, 2012 at 10:32 PM

Block/Fehrnstrom 2016!

Bizarro No. 1 on July 2, 2012 at 10:40 PM

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on July 2, 2012 at 10:09 PM

We get it already. You are angry about it. What is to be done about it? That is all that matters at this point. It’s done. He said it. Whether he was wrong or not is apparently up for debate until the end of time. Where we go from here is the question. Do you have any thoughts on that?

Night Owl on July 2, 2012 at 10:41 PM

We could be worse…
We could be Egypt…

Thank god that we still have voice…

Electrongod on July 2, 2012 at 10:42 PM

Too bad Roberts didn’t call it a “fee.” Mitt wouldn’t mind that.

Dongemaharu on July 2, 2012 at 10:44 PM

So confusing. Personally, I think it’s a penaltax.

TarheelBen on July 2, 2012 at 10:44 PM

BTW, I don’t trust anyone who wears those glasses…sorry.

d1carter on July 2, 2012 at 10:37 PM

I guess I’m shallow too—–but every time he speaks it confirms what we thought.

arnold ziffel on July 2, 2012 at 10:45 PM

Unless I’m just missing the upside to calling it a penalty as opposed to a tax. I think they should stay on message. The largest tax increase in world history. Add that to five trillion additional debt, The 0 Economy™. Romney would normally win in a landslide. Really, damn near anyone should. So why are we so uptight? I don’t think it’s time to over think this too much. Stay on message Romney. Make the case as strong as you can. You don’t need to be getting overly complicated here. Unless I’m missing something.

Bmore on July 2, 2012 at 10:45 PM

Thank god that we still have voice…

Electrongod on July 2, 2012 at 10:42 PM

Do we? Really?

Midas on July 2, 2012 at 10:46 PM

Romney is no doubt relieved that National Romneycare was saved, thanks to another corporatist far-right “moderate”, Justice Roberts, but now that Roberts has officially named the Obamacare mandate a tax, that means that the Romneycare mandate in Mass is also a tax, making Romney one of the biggest tax increasers in the history of the America, similar to Obama but at the state level.

FloatingRock on July 2, 2012 at 10:46 PM

Turned out in the summer the economy was the issue not Iraq. Shortsighted then, shortsighted now.

txmomof6 on July 2, 2012 at 10:36 PM

Last I checked, the national economy’s still in the dumper.

It is, and has always been, one of Romney’s strongest issues and one of Santorum’s weakest. I’m not sorry Romney’s our guy now.

KingGold on July 2, 2012 at 10:47 PM

Do we? Really?

Midas on July 2, 2012 at 10:46 PM

Oh, stop.

Bizarro No. 1 on July 2, 2012 at 10:47 PM

Just so we are clear here, Allahpundit is asking us to blame “the man responsible for RomneyCare” for agreeing with Justices Scalia and Thomas.

This isn’t about conservatism it’s about cheerleading the current political position some conservatives and pundits take. We’re just supposed to buy into something that if any one of these people said last week would have been ridiculed as nonsense. Behold our conservative betters. It’s pretty bad when a politician is more consistent and on point then his critics.

lowandslow on July 2, 2012 at 10:48 PM

It’s NOT a tax. It’s a penalty, a fine, a punishment, for not obeying orders from Herr Obama ans his demofascist party.

VorDaj on July 2, 2012 at 10:49 PM

Romneys website has that he would appoint justices like Roberts and conservatives are screaming he should remove it,
Romney distances himself from roberts and conservatives are screaming he blew it.

The perfect is the enemy of the good!

Romney is not perfect so I will scream and wail and caterwaul like a three year old cause he can’t beat the Black liberation theologist, marxist wannabee, alinsky disciple that has presided over and created the worst economy since he great depression, while driving the debt higher than all previous presidents and paying off his union thugs, eco terrorists, and corporate cronies with our childrens and grandchildrens futures, all the while dissing our allies and emboldening our enemies and his Muslim brothers!

Its the economy stupids!

ConcealedKerry on July 2, 2012 at 10:49 PM

The banquet’s laid before Romney, and this stooge just sneezed into the mashed potatoes.

kingsjester on July 2, 2012 at 10:50 PM

I think they should stay on message. The largest tax increase in world history.

He is on message, nobody and I mean nobody but the attorney arguing for Obamacare and Roberts was calling it a tax before Thursday.

lowandslow on July 2, 2012 at 10:51 PM

Romney is no doubt relieved that National Romneycare was saved, thanks to another corporatist far-right “moderate”, Justice Roberts, but now that Roberts has officially named the Obamacare mandate a tax, that means that the Romneycare mandate in Mass is also a tax, making Romney one of the biggest tax increasers in the history of the America, similar to Obama but at the state level.

FloatingRock on July 2, 2012 at 10:46 PM

What kind of political downside do you believe there would be for Mitt to say, “The USSC declared 0bamaCare a tax, a position we don’t agree with philosophically, but one we’ll abide by out of respect for the court.”?

Bizarro No. 1 on July 2, 2012 at 10:53 PM

The question during the Republican primary was, why are voters picking Romney’s opponent, you know, anybody but Romney. I think you have your answer. Really, Mitt Romney, all you had to do was just apologies for Romneycare. Just that simple!

jjnco73 on July 2, 2012 at 10:54 PM

He is on message, nobody and I mean nobody but the attorney arguing for Obamacare and Roberts was calling it a tax before Thursday.

lowandslow on July 2, 2012 at 10:51 PM

George Stephanopoulos never debated the topic with 0bamessiah, eh?

Bizarro No. 1 on July 2, 2012 at 10:56 PM

Where we go from here is the question. Do you have any thoughts on that?

Night Owl on July 2, 2012 at 10:41 PM

Yes. Mittens has to take a no-holds-barred attitude to killing all of ObamaCare, with no discussion of replacement or anything, and now he has to attack the SCOTASS ruling as well, explaining how it is a travesty and argued without any logical constraints, at all. He needs to take apart Roberts’ idiotic argument that it was not a tax to hear the case and then was a tax (though no tax ever heard of in our nation) in order to rule it Constitutional, which was, itself a total travesty and a deadly blow to our Constitutional Republic. Mittens has to attack anything and everything that conspired to foist this monstrosity on America (what’s left of America). He has to attack it all, without mercy.

Not to give in to any of the idiocy. Not to lend credence to any of the insane arguments that have led to this. They are all wrong and all bad. Mittens needs to paint a picture of a nation with such a concept as a tax on not doing what the government tells you to do. He needs to take the gloves off and fight this to the death. This is the hill to die on. THere will be no more hills.

And he needs to get rid of Mr. Etch-A-Sketch, already. He should have done that long ago, but he needs to clean out his team and get some people who will actually fight for (what’s left of) America.

That’s my view on this. Anything less will insure a loss, as far as I see things turning out.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on July 2, 2012 at 10:57 PM

Chucky T looks as if he just got another scalp for his Prog trophy room…Fox News tonight led with this story…anyone know about the other legacy media outlets?

d1carter on July 2, 2012 at 10:58 PM

There is absolutely nothing Romney or his spokesmen could say that wouldn’t be twisted into Romney somehow supporting Obamacare.

thuja on July 2, 2012 at 10:38 PM

Watch the first couple minutes of this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWDJEc92d38

FloatingRock on July 2, 2012 at 10:58 PM

Oh no, not Juan McVain 2.0 I hope. Come on Romney at least fight for it. Either Romney fights or we lose. He will be the nominee and voting for a third party candidate is a direct path to four more years of the Obumumer. Romney need to keep attacking on the economy and let his allies attack on Obama care, if he doesn’t want to attack on ObamaTax.

Raquel Pinkbullet on July 2, 2012 at 10:58 PM

Good thing he has all these pro-ObamneyCare folks to advise him. I do not trust Mitt Romney, I do not..

kringeesmom on July 2, 2012 at 10:58 PM

George Stephanopoulos never debated the topic with 0bamessiah, eh?

Bizarro No. 1 on July 2, 2012 at 10:56 PM

What? I must have missed where Obama called it a tax.

lowandslow on July 2, 2012 at 10:59 PM

What kind of political downside do you believe there would be for Mitt to say, “The USSC declared 0bamaCare a tax, a position we don’t agree with philosophically, but one we’ll abide by out of respect for the court.”?

Bizarro No. 1 on July 2, 2012 at 10:53 PM

There is no upside to Obama/Romney, only downside.

FloatingRock on July 2, 2012 at 10:59 PM

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on July 2, 2012 at 10:57 PM

I totally agree. 100% correct!

jjnco73 on July 2, 2012 at 11:00 PM

This guy looks like a Hollywood liberal dork, i.e., a typical Bill Maher guest.

Philly on July 2, 2012 at 11:00 PM

This isn’t about conservatism it’s about cheerleading the current political position some conservatives and pundits take. We’re just supposed to buy into something that if any one of these people said last week would have been ridiculed as nonsense. Behold our conservative betters. It’s pretty bad when a politician is more consistent and on point then his critics.

lowandslow on July 2, 2012 at 10:48 PM

I think you are … wait, you did it again …

He is on message, nobody and I mean nobody but the attorney arguing for Obamacare and Roberts was calling it a tax before Thursday.

lowandslow on July 2, 2012 at 10:51 PM

I think you are dead on here. :)

But if Hannity is going to run with “the largest tax hike in the history of the world,” there’s nothing to do but roll with it. Otherwise, we’re just throwing spaghetti at each other while Obama is digging through the pile to get at an issue, somehow.

I think it’s unseemly, but there’s a case to make that “the court hath ruled, and everyone needs to just accept it” — so I can’t get that indignant as Hannity runs with it. I think he’s wrong, and it looks sort of progressive to me, but …

Strange days.

Axe on July 2, 2012 at 11:02 PM

How did Obama finesse his pitiful record in the Illinois senate? Romney should just say he is not running for Governor of Massachusetts but President of the US and change the subject if he is unwilling to admit he made a mistake. The problem has always been with Romney is he doesn’t think it was a mistake. We need to hear him say that he will sign a repeal of ObamaCare in a effort to get this economy back on track and move on.

txmomof6 on July 2, 2012 at 11:03 PM

With Romney all anybody with sense is really doing, really can do, is for use him to vote against Obama, and not for Romney.

Ask John Kerry how well that works out.

Boomer_Sooner on July 2, 2012 at 11:04 PM

Unfortunately, I don’t think he’s going to get rid of Mr. Etch.

From what I can find Fehrstrom has been with Mitt since MA governor days. I don’t know what his title is, but I’ve seen him called senior adviser, top adviser, etc. That kind of longevity can lend itself to blind spots by a politician. We can only hope that Mitt muzzles him.

Etch was once a reporter for the Boston Herald. This means he is basically clueless as to what conservatives Republicans are like. Does Mitt have anyone on his team who has a clue?

I read in the past that the campaign was focused on getting the numbers. Everything they do is calculated to those electoral votes. That’s why Mitt ran in the primaries as if they were the general. Are they at all concerned about being able to hit the policy nail with the hammer of conservative reasoning? I really don’t think it occurs to them as being all that important.

INC on July 2, 2012 at 11:05 PM

Nice to see that King Gold is still at it, making excuses for this Clown Show of a Republican Presidential Campaign.

John Roberts hands Mitt Romney a campaign issue on a silver f**king platter, and ONLY MITT ROMNEY could find a way to screw it up.

I swear to God, this is all part of a vast plot by the Bush Family to get Jeb into the White House in 2016.

Sorry, King Gold, you can’t blame this one on Palin.

victor82 on July 2, 2012 at 11:05 PM

Must we go over this again? There are three worlds here – the real world, the legal world, and the political world.

In the real world, it was a mandate. Written as a mandate, intended to be a mandate, sold as a mandate.

In the legal world, it is also a mandate, but is “called” a tax. So it’s a tax. See, in the legal world, a cat can be a dog in the alternative, if a powerful enough judge says so.

And in the political world, it’s whatever a given side can call it to benefit them. So for Barry, it’s still a mandate, though to call it such invalidates the very decision they praise, and for Romney, it is a “tax” because it benefits him to say so, but betrays the reality and legal truth that it is a mandate.

As you can see, all three world coexist, but they do NOT work together. And we are surprised that people want to bust out the torches and pitchforks?

Saltyron on July 2, 2012 at 11:06 PM

That’s my view on this. Anything less will insure a loss, as far as I see things turning out.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on July 2, 2012 at 10:57 PM

Thank you. Do you think Romney himself has to do this, or do you think the PACs can do the attacking? Couldn’t he just make a statement such as the one his campaign made:

“The federal individual mandate in Obamacare is either a constitutional tax or an unconstitutional penalty. Governor Romney thinks it is an unconstitutional penalty. What is President Obama’s position?”

And say that the majority of Americans don’t want it, he will repeal it, and move on from there?

Night Owl on July 2, 2012 at 11:06 PM

Well, it’s either a tax or it’s unconstitutional on a federal basis. It makes sense for Romney to argue that his is a mandate. States mandate auto insurance and it isn’t a tax. It just can’t be a mandate on the federal level so Roberts allowed it only based on the idea that Obamacare is a tax. The Democrats asked for it to be allowed on that basis and they got it, and I don’t think they’ll get too far with refusing to acknowledge it.

Buddahpundit on July 2, 2012 at 11:06 PM

The adviser to the guy who laughed with Ted Kennedy while he signed Romneycare doesn’t think Obamacare is not a tax. Go figure.

CrustyB on July 2, 2012 at 11:09 PM

Buddahpundit on July 2, 2012 at 11:06 PM

That sounds sensible to me.

Night Owl on July 2, 2012 at 11:10 PM

Why on earth would you get rid of Ferhnstrom? He’s the only guy who tells you what Mitt currently believes/is thinking.

Man, what a train wreck this is election cycle is going to be, but then, maybe we can replace the establishment with conservatives after November.

newtopia on July 2, 2012 at 11:10 PM

But if Hannity is going to run with “the largest tax hike in the history of the world,” there’s nothing to do but roll with it.

Screw Hannity. To push this tax increase nonsense is to miss everything that is wrong with Obamacare. Another massive entitlement we cannot pay for that will only quicken our economic collapse and the most important part, the trampling of my liberties. The penalty part of it is nothing compared to those two things. Something a vast majority of conservatives seem to forgot.

lowandslow on July 2, 2012 at 11:12 PM

Do we? Really?

Midas on July 2, 2012 at 10:46 PM

Oh, stop.

Bizarro No. 1 on July 2, 2012 at 10:47 PM

What, you mean you think your voice/vote count for something? How quaint.

What’s the historic 2010 landslide gotten us?

Sorry; been watching the GOP for the last 20 years or more say one thing then do another when they get elected.

Been watching the Dems – and their slightly less progressive friends in the GOP – ignore the will of the people for quite awhile now as well.

Been watching presidential primaries come that afford most of us *no* choice in who to select – I suppose if I lived in Iowa or some other early state I might think that at least my primary vote counted – but alas, I don’t, so my choice was to vote for McCain or… McCain. And Romney or… Romney.

And now I’m watching the SC go even farther in ignoring not just the will of the people (as they should), but the Constitution as well.

Let’s turn this around – ‘splain why you think our voice/votes *do* actually matter, please. All evidence aside, why do you think sending the GOP to DC in control of the WH, the Senate, and the House will result in a repeal of Obamacare, when within only a few days of the SC decision, higher-ups are already working to manage expectations as to whether that would be done or not.

Remember when the GOP had control of the WH, the Senate and the House – and reduced spending? Reduced entitlements? Any other conservative ideal that our votes sent them there to do?

Yeah, I don’t remember it happening that way either. Feel free to think it’ll be different this time, though. How does that ‘battered wife syndrome’ thing work again?

Midas on July 2, 2012 at 11:13 PM

“The federal individual mandate in Obamacare is either a constitutional tax or an unconstitutional penalty. Governor Romney thinks it is an unconstitutional penalty. What is President Obama’s position?”

How about:

According to the Supreme Court Obama either presided over the passing of an UNCONSTITUTIONAL MANDATE,
Or the LARGEST TAX INCREASE IN US HISTORY!
Either way Mitt Romney will repeal and replace it on day WON!

ConcealedKerry on July 2, 2012 at 11:13 PM

Either way Mitt Romney will repeal and replace it on day WON!

He’ll never get the chance? Why? Because the electorate will sniff out his insincerity and vote in Obama. This is truly a miserable election cycle.

newtopia on July 2, 2012 at 11:15 PM

I agree with Romney. This is not a tax. It’s a penalty.

Roberts has foolishly twisted the language to call this penalty a tax. Just because he’s an idiot doesn’t mean the rest of us have to follow down his path.

No ordinary citizen with common sense is going to look at this as tax, so why hype up the tax angle? It just makes Romney look opportunistic.

Romney is right to label this an unconstitutional penalty. That is far worse and scarier than a “tax” which is legal even if it’s annoying.

There’s a group of conservatives who get all excited when they hear the word “tax.” They’re the Sean Hannity group: very emotional about words like “freedom,” “patriot,” “tax,” “Muslim,” and “Communist.” They think they have something to gain by calling what is obviously not a tax a tax. That will fire everyone up, they believe. Wrong. When most people find out that the higher “taxes” are really nothing more than penalties paid for not getting insurance, combined with slightly higher prices at tanning salons, they will conclude that Republicans are just being stupidly emotional and disingenuous again.

Burke on July 2, 2012 at 11:17 PM

AHH! The smell of FAIL emmiting from the Romney supporters in quite piquant.

Round 1: TOLD YA SO!!!

“The trouble ain’t that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain’t distributed right.”

Mark Twain

DannoJyd on July 2, 2012 at 11:17 PM

The more I think about it the more Roberts reminds me of one of those serial killers who puts lipstick and all manner of makeup on dead bodies.

Doctor Victor Robertstein, “It’s alive! It’s alive!”

VorDaj on July 2, 2012 at 11:17 PM

Either way Mitt Romney will repeal and replace it on day WON!

And I want nothing to do with the ‘replace’ bit of that – “repeal” – PERIOD.

Midas on July 2, 2012 at 11:17 PM

Mitt Romney. The Chief Justice Roberts candidate in conservative robes.

newtopia on July 2, 2012 at 11:19 PM

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/07/02/Tax-Versus-Penalty-What-the-Romney-Campaign-Should-Have-Said

Romneycare’s individual mandate was enacted as a tax–even though Fehrnstrom tried to argue today that it is a “penalty.” In contrast, Obamacare’s individual mandate was enacted as a penalty–and became a tax because of the overreach of the Supreme Court (after bullying from President Obama, the Democrats, and the media.)…

…The text of Romneycare describes the individual mandate, in Section 2(b), as a “tax” to be collected by the state, unless the taxpayer shows proof of insurance, at which point he or she may claim a personal tax exemption. It is that simple. There could be no doubt, then or now, that the individual mandate in Romneycare was intended to be a tax–despite what Fehrnstrom tried to say, under pressure, today.

The text of Obamacare, in contrast, merely describes the individual mandate, in Section 1501, as a “penalty.” In addition, the language of the statute makes clear that Congress was basing its authority to apply the penalty on its Commerce Clause power to regulate interstate economic activity, not on the Taxing and Spending Clause.

…When Obamacare was challenged, the Obama administration flip-flopped. But more than the labels, what is particularly odious about the outcome in the Obamacare case is that the Chief Justice and the Court’s liberals effectively re-wrote Obamacare as a tax to save it from being struck down as unconstitutional.

INC on July 2, 2012 at 11:19 PM

newtopia on July 2, 2012 at 11:15 PM

Oh yea the electorate is going to re-elect the guy who passed an unconstitutional mandate or the largest tax increase in US history while funneling billions to his union and green energy pals tanking the US economy and endangering our childrens and grandchildrens futures!
The economy is in the tank and getting worse, unemployment will be up, consumer spending down and manufacturing in the gutter under Obama!
Its the economy stupid!

ConcealedKerry on July 2, 2012 at 11:20 PM

similar to Obama but at the state level.

FloatingRock on July 2, 2012 at 10:46 PM

Ummm…look through your funny little window again.

Mitt Romney and The Most Incompetent Person Ever To Be Nominated for Let Alone Elected President bear little resemblance to each other. At any level. In personal history. In professional accomplishments. In individual philosophy. In leadership. In economic proficiency. In defending the most innocent. And not to be overlooked, in the identities of those who support them.

I’ve said it before, you choose your strongest champion and then make him stronger. We did, now we must.

If yer gonna get lily-livered, why don’t you try writing in “Murkowski”? I mean, it worked for Grumpy Lisa….

rwenger43 on July 2, 2012 at 11:20 PM

piquant.

Round 1: TOLD YA SO!!!

“The trouble ain’t that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain’t distributed right.”

Mark Twain

DannoJyd on July 2, 2012 at 11:17 PM

The lightning there is peculiar; it is so convincing, that when it strikes a thing it doesn’t leave enough of that thing behind for you to tell whether–Well, you’d think it was something valuable, and a Congressman Barack Obama had been there.

VorDaj on July 2, 2012 at 11:21 PM

…When Obamacare was challenged, the Obama administration flip-flopped. But more than the labels, what is particularly odious about the outcome in the Obamacare case is that the Chief Justice and the Court’s liberals effectively re-wrote Obamacare as a tax to save it from being struck down as unconstitutional.

INC on July 2, 2012 at 11:19 PM

We should probably call Roberts, Fraudberts.

VorDaj on July 2, 2012 at 11:22 PM

Thank you. Do you think Romney himself has to do this, or do you think the PACs can do the attacking?

I think PACs and others can make the correct (in my view) arguments, but it would be best if Mitt did it, too. He is the one running. He still has the votes of people like me, but he needs to make sure that he doesn’t leave so many people on the couch like McCain did in 2008.

Couldn’t he just make a statement such as the one his campaign made:

“The federal individual mandate in Obamacare is either a constitutional tax or an unconstitutional penalty. Governor Romney thinks it is an unconstitutional penalty. What is President Obama’s position?”

And say that the majority of Americans don’t want it, he will repeal it, and move on from there?

Night Owl on July 2, 2012 at 11:06 PM

I don’t think so (again, my view) because I don’t agree with that statement. That statement takes Roberts’ opinion and uses it as the basis for determining Constitutionality. Roberts’ opinion was so irrational and insane that it shouldn’t be used as the basis for anything. An individual mandate to buy anything about health insurance from the federal government is un-Constitutional. Period. I will not give one inch on that. Even if Congress had fashioned it a tax, it would still be un-Constitutional. Congress could make health insurance tax deductible, but that’s about it. They have no business mucking around in the insurance markets, at all, unless it’s to allow inter-state commerce in insurance, which they aren’t even doing with their ridiculous (and strangling) exchanges.

But Mittens should always punctuate every discussion of ObamaCare with his determination to just repeal the whole thing. The one page repeal that DeMint put through is good enough.

Again, others can argue this stuff for Mittens, but I think people want to know that he at least claims he will do these things and at least acts as if he believes these positions – even if he won’t and doesn’t.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on July 2, 2012 at 11:23 PM

I don’t care what the reasons are, this is deflating.

We picked the wrong dude.

Fish on July 2, 2012 at 11:24 PM

Romney should continue to stress that he agrees with the four Justices of the Court that the mandate is unconstitutional, and it is a penalty against people who chose not to be forced by the federal government to buy something. And Barry agreed that the penalty was wrong in 2008:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/flashback-obama-in-08-hit-hillary-clinton-for-health-care-penalty/

bayview on July 2, 2012 at 11:26 PM

AHH! The smell of FAIL emanating from the Romney supporters in quite piquant.

FIFM

DannoJyd on July 2, 2012 at 11:27 PM

We should probably call Roberts, Fraudberts.

VorDaj on July 2, 2012 at 11:22 PM

We should call Romney, 0bama. Both descriptions are relevant.

DannoJyd on July 2, 2012 at 11:30 PM

Penalties, you say?

Del Dolemonte on July 2, 2012 at 11:33 PM

Fehrnstrom, the Etch-A-Sketch genius will have to use the etch-a-sketch to play Pelosi.

One couldn’t make this up if one were a screenplay writer Wunderkind.

Schadenfreude on July 2, 2012 at 11:34 PM

rwenger43 on July 2, 2012 at 11:20 PM

Romney raised taxes through the roof in Massachusetts with the Romneycare mandate, just like the Obamacare mandate does nationally. Obama copied his mandate from Romney, Romney was the first in the history of America to do it.

FloatingRock on July 2, 2012 at 11:36 PM

What, you mean you think your voice/vote count for something? How quaint.

What’s the historic 2010 landslide gotten us?

Sorry; been watching the GOP for the last 20 years or more say one thing then do another when they get elected.

Been watching the Dems – and their slightly less progressive friends in the GOP – ignore the will of the people for quite awhile now as well.

Been watching presidential primaries come that afford most of us *no* choice in who to select – I suppose if I lived in Iowa or some other early state I might think that at least my primary vote counted – but alas, I don’t, so my choice was to vote for McCain or… McCain. And Romney or… Romney.

And now I’m watching the SC go even farther in ignoring not just the will of the people (as they should), but the Constitution as well.

Let’s turn this around – ‘splain why you think our voice/votes *do* actually matter, please. All evidence aside, why do you think sending the GOP to DC in control of the WH, the Senate, and the House will result in a repeal of Obamacare, when within only a few days of the SC decision, higher-ups are already working to manage expectations as to whether that would be done or not.

Remember when the GOP had control of the WH, the Senate and the House – and reduced spending? Reduced entitlements? Any other conservative ideal that our votes sent them there to do?

Yeah, I don’t remember it happening that way either. Feel free to think it’ll be different this time, though. How does that ‘battered wife syndrome’ thing work again?

Midas on July 2, 2012 at 11:13 PM

That’s a pretty long answer to a rather simple question. Now, who’s your choice? I’m guessing, based on your response, Gary Johnson. Am I close? If so, it explains much about your post….

ManWithNoParty on July 2, 2012 at 11:40 PM

Obama copied his mandate from Romney, Romney was the first in the history of America to do it.

FloatingRock on July 2, 2012 at 11:36 PM

Get some new material, or prove your Lies with credible, multi-sourced cites, please.

“RomneyCare” for the most part was written by the Democrat MA Legislative body. Romney vetoed 8 separate parts of it when he signed it into law, but the All-Democrat MA legislative body overrode all 8 of his vetoes.

INC

Del Dolemonte on July 2, 2012 at 11:42 PM

Sorry, King Gold, you can’t blame this one on Palin.

victor82 on July 2, 2012 at 11:05 PM

What stick is jammed up your backside?

Did you read my post excoriating this guy and telling Mitt to dump him? Or is reading beyond you? And how the hell does Palin get involved, apart from you projecting the Martyr Goddess onto every conservative setback?

Or is it because it’s Romney? Let me tell you something. None of your faux-conservative “true conservative” challengers would be anywhere near Obama, much less competitive in the states Romney’s competitive in. So take your failures elsewhere. I have no time for them.

KingGold on July 2, 2012 at 11:44 PM

Romney should continue to stress that he agrees with the four Justices of the Court that the mandate is unconstitutional, and it is a penalty against people who chose not to be forced by the federal government to buy something. And Barry agreed that the penalty was wrong in 2008:

bayview on July 2, 2012 at 11:26 PM

Absolutely. Calling it a tax just reinforces the notion that Roberts’ line of reasoning has some merit. That’s the last thing we want to do.

Throwing spaghetti on Sean Hannity who as usual is taking the crude, simplistic approach to this issue as he does most others is not really that harmful; nobody listens to him except for hardcore, emotional conservatives. You can bet independents aren’t listening to his show.

Furthermore, we have four Justices on the Court who are truly brilliant, and they wrote a good, solid dissent. I’d worry more about throwing spaghetti on them than on Sean Hannity.

Burke on July 2, 2012 at 11:45 PM

This just proves that Romney is a terrible candidate with an even worse campaign team. Seems to me they really don’t want to win all that badly, which reminds me of the futile McCain campaign.

gumbyandpokey on July 2, 2012 at 9:59 PM

Where are all the Mittbots? All those that slimed the HA website with Mitt is better than Cain, Newt, Perry, et al, and we now have this crap. Mittbot’s own guy says yeah, its a penalty when the gift was Roberts saying it was a TAX. What? Mittbot doesn’t have a snappy comeback for this? If not for this, and not for the imperial enacted dream act, and not for Bain outsourcing, what exactly is MITT? Why should I vote for him? Where’s his message?
Oh, yeah, penalty.

I hear *crickets*

athenadelphi on July 2, 2012 at 11:46 PM

I don’t care what the reasons are, this is deflating.

We picked the wrong dude.

Fish on July 2, 2012 at 11:24 PM

You’re right. I’m not getting that tingling feeling up my leg.

athenadelphi on July 2, 2012 at 11:49 PM

katy the mean old lady on July 2, 2012 at 10:39 PM

Thanks for being sane around here.

Also, Mitt should have fired this guy when he blabbed about the Etch-A-Sketch, not that it wasn’t a Freudian slip.

Schadenfreude on July 2, 2012 at 11:50 PM

Del Dolemonte on July 2, 2012 at 11:42 PM

I don’t have to prove it, Most independent voters are already aware that Obama copied the mandate from Romneycare. It is only the koolaid drinkers that deny it.

FloatingRock on July 2, 2012 at 11:54 PM

Mittens needs to paint a picture of a nation with such a concept as a tax on not doing what the government tells you to do. He needs to take the gloves off and fight this to the death.

That’s it exactly.

There has never in the history of the USA been a feudal head tax until now by act of Justice Roberts. Yet, as Roberts points out, that’s not legally implemented since it is not equally applied per head. Rather some pay more than others, some pay nothing.

When the libs come back (and they will) regarding RomneyCare, Romney must draw out any and every distinction and quickly get back on the message above. Maybe Romney needs to even do a mea culpa for RomneyCare – whatever it takes but slam home the argument that ObamaCare penalizes the middle class, will kill off the elderly, will deprive the working class good medical care (because they can’t afford to wait in line for it) and encourage more and more free loaders(who can and do wait in lines for their freebies).

katablog.com on July 2, 2012 at 11:55 PM

I don’t have to prove it, Most independent voters are already aware that Obama copied the mandate from Romneycare. It is only the koolaid drinkers that deny it.

FloatingRock on July 2, 2012 at 11:54 PM

Most independent voters don’t know who’s in control of Congress, much less who copied a mandate from whom. It’s only those pushing their no-hoper third-party candidate that deny it.

Don’t you have to get to a prayer session with Sister Mary Juana?

KingGold on July 2, 2012 at 11:56 PM

Yes it’s a mandate which makes it unconstitutional which would be in agreement with the dissent like Alirto, Thomas and Scalia BUT now that Obama lawyers were saying it was a tax in oral arguments and Roberts said it was a tax and it being passed in the SC in Obama’s favor – Romney could have easily hanged Obama by the skin by talking about the largest middle class tax hike in history which makes Obama a complete liar – Romney, through his aide has completely taking it OFF the table now in trying to defend RomneyCare and the average voter doesn’t care about both sides arguing over the semantics of Mandate here and Tax over there and who said what and when but they clearly understand what a massive tax hike is

Obamacare is an abomination through and through, so you simply take the easy political argument that was gift wrapped to you and pummel your opponent with it with only a few months left and call it a day – but Nooooo! They fail to get it right

journeymike on July 2, 2012 at 11:57 PM

Also, Mitt should have fired this guy when he blabbed about the Etch-A-Sketch, not that it wasn’t a Freudian slip.

Schadenfreude on July 2, 2012 at 11:50 PM

Excuse me, but I would like to give credit where credit is due.

Mitt had NO reason to fire the guy. Did he lie? NO! Was he doing his level best to assist Romney albeit in a most LIbEral fashion? YES!

Mitt did the honorable thing as the fault of his being such a uber liberal falls on HIS shouldres and no one elses.

Gary Johnson 2012: He Isn’t Rom0bama!

DannoJyd on July 3, 2012 at 12:00 AM

Don’t you have to get to a prayer session with Sister Mary Juana?

KingGold on July 2, 2012 at 11:56 PM

It’s partly because hardcore Romney supporters like yourself are so detestable and unprincipled that your candidate is going to lose in November.

FloatingRock on July 3, 2012 at 12:01 AM

Romney needs to come out PDQ and denounce this lugnut’s statement, fire him and call it what it is…A DAMN TAX!

Mr. Arrogant on July 3, 2012 at 12:01 AM

Playing up the TAX INCREASE by Obama is more effective with the one-eared dullards who make up about 10% of the electorate who sway in the popular winds and flap into the voting booth ready to let the latest rumor steer their vote.

Arcane legal minutae won’t move them.

MASSIVE TAX INCREASE BY OBAMA! shall.

profitsbeard on July 3, 2012 at 12:03 AM

They fail to get it right

journeymike on July 2, 2012 at 11:57 PM

Sir, have you considered that they believe they got it EXACTLY RIGHT?

This is what happens when you support any liberal. They fail you time, and time, and time… AGAIN!

Gary Johnson 2012: Demand He Be Covered in Hotair!

DannoJyd on July 3, 2012 at 12:03 AM

It’s partly because hardcore Romney supporters like yourself are so detestable and unprincipled that your candidate is going to lose in November.

FloatingRock on July 3, 2012 at 12:01 AM

Don’t mind King Crock. He just got kicked in the nuggets by his liberal messiah. /smug

KingGold on July 2, 2012 at 11:56 PM

Hey buddy! TOLD YA SO!!!

DannoJyd on July 3, 2012 at 12:06 AM

It’s partly because hardcore Romney supporters like yourself are so detestable and unprincipled that your candidate is going to lose in November.

FloatingRock on July 3, 2012 at 12:01 AM

Spare me the faux-concern and just outright admit that the chief driver behind Johnson’s campaign, if one can call it that, is weed legalization. Nothing more, nothing less.

I’ve heard his CPAC talks and what he said at the debate. He proclaimed he would submit a balanced budget every year and didn’t breathe a word about entitlements, he bragged about his veto record while omitting his policy victories (if indeed he won any) and the only issue that stuck out was school choice, on which he’s perfectly synchronous with Romney.

He resorts to stupid stunts like the John Stossel “debate” to remain relevant, and he seems intent just to trade on his personality – expecting that because he’s managed to scale Everest we’ll forgive his utter lack of policy specificity.

KingGold on July 3, 2012 at 12:06 AM

DannoJyd on July 3, 2012 at 12:00 AM

You must not have been here at the time. I nailed them both for days on the Etch-A-Sketch that both Mitt and Obama are.

Schadenfreude on July 3, 2012 at 12:08 AM

To me, Romney’s federalism indictment of ObamaCare always smacked of him saying to voters, “Don’t worry! Legally, as president, I couldn’t impose my Massachusetts plan on you even if I wanted to.” Um, great.

Yes, great is right. The entire argument for federalism is to protect us from crap like this. The reason for the protection is that federal politicians will foist stuff upon us… federalism doesn’t apply to states vs counties, as you know.

So, yes, great is right… and the federalism argument is rock solid. They should stick with it come hell or high water (whatever the hell that means).

Either way, Romney is just another big government drone who will merely slow down our descent into state slavery… but for him to insinuate that he couldn’t do this even if he wanted to should be a vote of confidence for the structure of our republic… a structure that has eroded significantly.

Meh. A thousand times meh.

Metro on July 3, 2012 at 12:09 AM

on which he’s perfectly synchronous with Romney.

KingGold on July 3, 2012 at 12:06 AM

Unlike Romney, Gary Johnson’s record and his rhetoric are consistent over the years. Unlike Romney people can trust Gary Johnson that he will do everything in his power to bring the corruption and runaway spending to heal. His record proves it, unlike either Obama’s or Romney’s.

FloatingRock on July 3, 2012 at 12:13 AM

What does it matter if it’s a penalty or a tax? We should focus on the 600 billion in new taxes that have been in Obamacare all along; the 500 billion in cuts to medicare; the 15 member IPAB board that is set up to ration Medicare; the CBO scoring that now says it will cost twice what they said it would; the CBO estimate of 20 million people who will be booted from their employee health care, and on and on.

TarheelBen on July 3, 2012 at 12:14 AM

What? I must have missed where Obama called it a tax.

lowandslow on July 2, 2012 at 10:59 PM

I guess your ears were plugged then when Stephanopoulos talked about the dictionary definition of tax, which 0bamessiah shot down, leaving George stunned by the imbecility 0bamessiah showed Him by His denial of the plain truth…

Bizarro No. 1 on July 3, 2012 at 12:17 AM

What does it matter if it’s a penalty or a tax?

TarheelBen on July 3, 2012 at 12:14 AM

Why don’t you ask that of the Dems who refuse to admit that it is one, or the Repubs who say that only 51 votes are now needed in the Senate for repeal…

Bizarro No. 1 on July 3, 2012 at 12:19 AM

Schadenfreude on July 3, 2012 at 12:08 AM

I’m not calling you out. I merely am showing a bit of support for Romney who EARNS NONE FROM ME otherwise. That is why I asked you to excuse me.

I like the way you post and follow up your opinions even if I do have a MISERABLE time spelling Schadenfreude. The freude gets me every time.

I am really enjoying this topic. I’m enjoying it A LOT! /smug

PS: Is it too early for me to be telling the Rombots “Told Ya So!”

DannoJyd on July 3, 2012 at 12:20 AM

Then he needs to be humble enough to admit he raised taxes, say it was a mistake and he would never do it in a recession and move on.

txmomof6 on July 2, 2012 at 10:33 PM

But it isn’t a tax. It’s a penalty and unconstitutional. Roberts pulled this whole tax thing out of his ass because he is afraid of Obama and the media.

Now it seems that the GOP and Romney have two different ways of dealing with this chaos. The GOP embraces Roberts’ decision and calls it a tax, Romney agrees with Kennedy and calls it unconstitutional.

Gelsomina on July 3, 2012 at 12:21 AM

There is no upside to Obama/Romney, only downside.

FloatingRock on July 2, 2012 at 10:59 PM

You never disappoint in your inability to stay on point! :)

Bizarro No. 1 on July 3, 2012 at 12:22 AM

Why don’t you ask that of the Dems who refuse to admit that it is one, or the Repubs who say that only 51 votes are now needed in the Senate for repeal…

Bizarro No. 1 on July 3, 2012 at 12:19 AM

There’s certainly enough taxes in the bill to justify using reconciliation to repeal it. After all, the Dems used reconciliation to pass it.

My point is, we need to remind people how bad the substance of the bill is, rather than going round and round about whether we should call that mandate a penalty or a tax.

TarheelBen on July 3, 2012 at 12:25 AM

He resorts to stupid stunts like the John Stossel “debate” to remain relevant, and he seems intent just to trade on his personality – expecting that because he’s managed to scale Everest we’ll forgive his utter lack of policy specificity.

KingGold on July 3, 2012 at 12:06 AM

Boy have I got some GOOD NEWS for YOU! Here is his policy specifity.

Coming soon: Gary Johnson Rising In The Polls.

DannoJyd on July 3, 2012 at 12:25 AM

I honestly don’t understand how you guys didn’t see this coming.

How could you even think of spinning the mandate as a tax when Mr Mandate is your nominee? SMFH. Dumb is not even the word.

Roberts rewrote the law and called it a tax. It’s a penalty. It’s still wrong…but imagine if Santorum was the messenger…

And the federalism argument won’t work…again, Romney is on the record defending the mandate specifically as something that should be done nationally, and refused to stop. Even if other things would be done differently at a national level, the mandate passed the national smell test for the Heritage Foundation and Romney…of and the GOP in 2008

U guys deserve every freaking slap you get for nominating Mr.MandateTax, Mr. RomneyTax, Mr. RomneyCare ta-penalty

Can.I.be.in.the.middle on July 3, 2012 at 12:26 AM

This guy should have been dumped a long, long time ago. He is a terrible spokesperson and is better off behind the scenes making copies or something.

Punchenko on July 3, 2012 at 12:26 AM

So, yes, great is right… and the federalism argument is rock solid.

Metro on July 3, 2012 at 12:09 AM

The principles of federalism may be rock solid, but that doesn’t excuse Romney’s role in Romneycare. Romney violated the spirit of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, relying on a technicality for his defense. Sure, Romney had a right to disregard the Constitution but why would anybody who treasures the Constitution reward such disregard? Romney is unfit for office and his words are like dust in the wind.

FloatingRock on July 3, 2012 at 12:27 AM

What, you mean you think your voice/vote count for something? How quaint.

What’s the historic 2010 landslide gotten us?

Sorry; been watching the GOP for the last 20 years or more say one thing then do another when they get elected.

Been watching the Dems – and their slightly less progressive friends in the GOP – ignore the will of the people for quite awhile now as well.

Been watching presidential primaries come that afford most of us *no* choice in who to select – I suppose if I lived in Iowa or some other early state I might think that at least my primary vote counted – but alas, I don’t, so my choice was to vote for McCain or… McCain. And Romney or… Romney.

And now I’m watching the SC go even farther in ignoring not just the will of the people (as they should), but the Constitution as well.

Let’s turn this around – ‘splain why you think our voice/votes *do* actually matter, please. All evidence aside, why do you think sending the GOP to DC in control of the WH, the Senate, and the House will result in a repeal of Obamacare, when within only a few days of the SC decision, higher-ups are already working to manage expectations as to whether that would be done or not.

Remember when the GOP had control of the WH, the Senate and the House – and reduced spending? Reduced entitlements? Any other conservative ideal that our votes sent them there to do?

Yeah, I don’t remember it happening that way either. Feel free to think it’ll be different this time, though. How does that ‘battered wife syndrome’ thing work again?

Midas on July 2, 2012 at 11:13 PM

I stopped reading after the very first stupid, delusional, cynical, and unconstructive line – I hope you feel better after the venting, now knowing that I didn’t bother wasting my time reading any more of it! :)

Bizarro No. 1 on July 3, 2012 at 12:29 AM

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