Issa to Obama: So … the White House is involved in Fast and Furious, then?

posted at 9:21 am on June 26, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

In case readers didn’t already realize it … it’s on.   The Daily Caller has a letter sent by House Oversight Chair Darrell Issa to President Barack Obama challenging the assertion of executive privilege in the investigation of Operation Fast and Furious.  In the letter, Issa tells Obama that the assertion means one of two things: either the highest levels of the White House were involved in the effort to mislead Congress on OF&F, or Obama is deliberately obstructing the investigation:

“[Y]our privilege assertion means one of two things,” Issa wrote to the president in a letter dated June 25. “Either you or your most senior advisors were involved in managing Operation Fast & Furious and the fallout from it, including the false February 4, 2011 letter provided by the attorney general to the committee, or, you are asserting a presidential power that you know to be unjustified solely for the purpose of further obstructing a congressional investigation.”

Issa said Obama’s assertion of executive privilege “raised the question” about the veracity of how the “White House has steadfastly maintained that it has not had any role in advising the department with respect to the congressional investigation.”

Obama’s assertion of executive privilege cited the “deliberative process” clause, but Issa rejects that as inapplicable under the circumstances:

Issa laid out that this is because the “Justice Department has steadfastly maintained that the documents sought by the committee do not implicate the White House whatsoever.”

“If true, they are at best deliberative documents between and among department personnel who lack the requisite ‘operational proximity’ to the president,” as legal precedent Issa cites requires. “As such, they cannot be withheld pursuant to the constitutionally-based executive privilege.”

Issa further breaks down how, “[c]ourts distinguish between the presidential communications privilege and the deliberative process privilege.”

“Both … are executive privileges designed to protect the confidentiality of executive branch decision-making,” Issa wrote. “The deliberative-process privilege, however, which applies to executive branch officials generally, is a common law privilege that requires a lower threshold of need to be overcome, and ‘disappears altogether when there is any reason to believe government misconduct has occurred.’”

Misconduct occurred on two levels.  Issa’s reference is to the false information submitted by DoJ officials in Congressional testimony, which is the specific subject of the subpoenas on which the contempt charge is based.  However, the overall investigation into OF&F also probes official misconduct in deliberately allowing thousands of weapons to be carried over the border with no way to track them, which violates regulations at the ATF — which is why ATF insiders blew the whistle on the operation in the first place.  Either way, Issa is entirely correct under US v Espy that deliberative process executive privilege does not survive in these circumstances.

The letter goes on to explain why Issa didn’t cut a deal with Attorney General Eric Holder.  Holder demanded that Issa “permanently” shelve the contempt charge and state that Holder had complied entirely with the subpoenas, in exchange for accepting a selective document dump, sight unseen.  Small wonder the meeting didn’t last long, and Holder had to run to Obama for an assertion of executive privilege immediately afterward.

If the White House wasn’t involved in OF&F or the cover-up, then Holder should have just coughed up the materials.  For that matter, Holder and the White House should have just fired the people involved in the first place and offered a “mistakes were made” mea minima culpa, which would have solved all of their political problems more than a year ago.  This would be old and barely relevant news had Obama and Holder done so.  The more they fight to keep those records secret — and especially when they offer ridiculous “deals” like the one Issa describes — the more it becomes clear that Obama really does have something to hide.

Update: The Hill also reports on Issa’s letter.


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Comment pages: 1 2 3

…Issa …
…but in a letter from a congressman to a president?
He…
I’m betting he…
 
verbaluce on June 26, 2012 at 10:21 AM

 
Hint: Issa isn’t the topic.

rogerb on June 26, 2012 at 10:24 AM

Del Dolemonte: Del Dole the big troll!

soghornetgunner on June 26, 2012 at 10:25 AM

Del Dolemonte on June 26, 2012 at 10:05 AM

You must have had to dig deep for that one. Nice.

Lost in Jersey on June 26, 2012 at 10:19 AM

I only saved about 6 or 7 of these Greatest Hits. Wish I had saved more. And I’m too lazy to go back thru the archives.

Del Dolemonte on June 26, 2012 at 10:28 AM

Del Dolemonte: Del Dole the big troll!

soghornetgunner on June 26, 2012 at 10:25 AM

Poor minds think alike!

crr6 on June 12, 2011 at 4:22 PM

Del Dolemonte on June 26, 2012 at 10:29 AM

Boot…throat…squish.

Repeat.

hillsoftx on June 26, 2012 at 10:29 AM

Cast of Characters:

Bill Newell: ATF Special Agent, “super-genius” who started Fast & Furious and Wide Reciever.

Kevin O’Reilly: friend and communicator with Bill Newell, a State Department employee seconded to the NSC, who was suddenly transferred to a State Department job in Iraq when the White House discovered that the Issa committee wanted to talk to him.

Dan Restrepo: O’Reilly’s boss, then Director of Western Hemisphere Affairs at the NSC, Center for American Progress alum.

Denis McDonough: then NSC’s head of Strategic Communication and since then promoted to the Deputy Director of the National Security Council, Center for American Progress alum.

J_Crater on June 26, 2012 at 10:29 AM

Big surprsie that Issa already holds Obama in contempt, but now he sends hate mail?
I would expect and understand someone being that strident on a message board – but in a letter from a congressman to a president?
He just sounds pissy. Again.
I’m betting he wrote that one all by himself, with little if any help from staff.

verbaluce on June 26, 2012 at 10:21 AM

Obama isn’t in contempt, Holder is. lol good lord.

Fish on June 26, 2012 at 10:30 AM

Hint: Issa isn’t the topic.

rogerb on June 26, 2012 at 10:24 AM

Well then your complaint is with Ed…not me.
(Hint: read the headline here…and the post.)

verbaluce on June 26, 2012 at 10:30 AM

…Either you or your most senior advisors were involved in managing Operation Fast & Furious and the fallout from it….or, you are asserting a presidential power that you know to be unjustified…”

Big surprsie that Issa already holds Obama in contempt, but now he sends hate mail?
I would expect and understand someone being that strident on a message board – but in a letter from a congressman to a president?
He just sounds pissy. Again.
I’m betting he wrote that one all by himself, with little if any help from staff.

verbaluce on June 26, 2012 at 10:21 AM

Of course you never address the actual content of Issa’s argument or case, just how he feels to you. Just like you to do so.

Don’t forget your red rubber nose & big shoes. I hear Clown College registration for the Summer is on – you’re a natural.

ICanSeeNovFromMyHouse on June 26, 2012 at 10:30 AM

Flora Duh on June 26, 2012 at 10:06 AM

Thanks. I love the smell of perjury in the morning…

If he’s smart, Holder will get Obama to pardon him on the way out…

trubble on June 26, 2012 at 10:09 AM

But who is going to pardon Obama?

SWalker on June 26, 2012 at 10:31 AM

I’m sure rogerb would be happy to fill in…
 
Del Dolemonte on June 26, 2012 at 9:41 AM

 
I’ve got modern ones that are fun now.
 

Thank you president Obama, no thanks to GOP.
 
lester on May 26, 2012 at 2:57 PM

 
Crr6 was the one who started it all, though.
 
We’ve got one in here that joked about Breitbart being dead. Let’s see what else he can give us.

rogerb on June 26, 2012 at 10:31 AM

Impeach NOW!!! I’ve been saying this for two years now. When do the high crimes and misdemeanors pile up high enough for the Congress, both parties, to actually see what’s going on here?

Jarhead68 on June 26, 2012 at 10:34 AM

I’m willing to bet that among the hidden (and very likely already-shredded) documents, there are damning transcripts which reveal that Napolitano, Holder, and/or SippyCup accepted the potential loss of life for American & Mexican citizens.

IMO, SippyCup wanted to dilute the 2nd Amendment “under the radar”. If true, that’s worthy of impeachment at the very least.

Too bad we don’t have a vigilant press or a Congress worth their paycheck any more; SippyCup & Holder will likely get off, scot-free.

This is who they are: Evil.

SnarkySam on June 26, 2012 at 10:34 AM

Did we pick up some garbage in this thread?

Bambi on June 26, 2012 at 10:34 AM

For that matter, Holder and the White House should have just fired the people involved in the first place and offered a “mistakes were made” mea minima culpa, which would have solved all of their political problems more than a year ago.

…..but with so many people being involved…..you know that some of them would have blown the whistle on the whole thing.There are already whistle blowers out there. Holder laying down another St. Valentines day massacre through the rest of these agencies would have produced a boat load more…..and they would have been more than happy to get in front of cameras and microphones to expose this corruption….all the way to the top.

Obama is an arrogant amateur that depended on his blindly partisan buddy Holder to push this dangerous and deadly program through.Their arrogance and overconfidence lead them to think they were untouchable (when this started…dems had total power on the Hill) and free of any real consequences.

Now this is coming down fast and they have their backs against the wall.The American people know they are hiding and covering up.Even with the attempted black out by the MSM……it is still going to blow open.Leaving Obama and his administration even more in tatters along with all the MSM outlets that tried to ignore this….then defend it as a “witch hunt”.

Arrogance and deceit will bring you down every time.

Baxter Greene on June 26, 2012 at 10:34 AM

Dan Restrepo: O’Reilly’s boss, then Director of Western Hemisphere Affairs at the NSC, Center for American Progress alum.

This jackmuffin should be forced to change his last name, he doesn’t deserve to share it with a combat hero.

Bishop on June 26, 2012 at 10:37 AM

Of course you never address the actual content of Issa’s argument or case…

ICanSeeNovFromMyHouse on June 26, 2012 at 10:30 AM

Neither does he.
Unless he does in an excerpt that hasn’t been leaked to Daily Caller…is there a link of the full letter?

verbaluce on June 26, 2012 at 10:38 AM

This is really all just about Issa’s desire to deny minority voting rights. It’s a racial thing./

a capella on June 26, 2012 at 10:40 AM

“GOP SENDS STRONGLY WORDED LETTER TO SERIAL VIOLATOR OF CONSTITUTION – NEWS AT ELEVEN.”

Yawn.

HondaV65 on June 26, 2012 at 10:41 AM

You lie, and I’ll swear to it.

- Obama to Holder

GrannyDee on June 26, 2012 at 10:41 AM

When do the high crimes and misdemeanors pile up high enough for the Congress, both parties, to actually see what’s going on here?

Jarhead68 on June 26, 2012 at 10:34 AM

It will never pile up high enough for the Democrats, they have no moral and no ethics, they believe with all of their hearts minds and souls that “The End Justifies the Means” Obama could publicly admit to being Satan himself and the Democrats would still vote to protect him.

SWalker on June 26, 2012 at 10:41 AM

lester on May 26, 2012 at 2:57 PM

Crr6 was the one who started it all, though.

We’ve got one in here that joked about Breitbart being dead. Let’s see what else he can give us.

rogerb on June 26, 2012 at 10:31 AM

Whatever happened to lazy lester? Haven’t seen him around lately.

Del Dolemonte on June 26, 2012 at 10:42 AM

Well then your complaint is with Ed…not me.
(Hint: read the headline here…and the post.)
 
verbaluce on June 26, 2012 at 10:30 AM

 
Bless your distracting little heart. This headline?
 

Issa to Obama: So … the White House is involved in Fast and Furious, then?

 
Hint: Topic is in bold.
 
That you’re willing to ignore the bolded part (the bit where Obama tied himself to people being killed) and focus entirely on “pissy” Issa tells us all we need to know.

rogerb on June 26, 2012 at 10:44 AM

…forgive if this has already been posted…..but the idea that this is some kind of “witch hunt” is such a lame attempt of deflection that a 5th grader wouldn’t fall for it.

Issa and the Obama administration know what is at stake and this is just a small part of probably much more evidence that the DOJ and White House are complicit in this irresponsible dangerous program that has resulted in the death of so many:

ATF leader’s email could be Fast and Furious smoking gun and Holder admitted Obama can’t shield it

http://dailycaller.com/2012/06/25/atf-leaders-email-could-be-fast-and-furious-smoking-gun-and-holder-admitted-obama-cant-shield-it/

A single internal Department of Justice email could be the smoking-gun document in the Operation Fast and Furious scandal — if it turns out to contain what congressional investigators have said it does.

The document would establish that wiretap application documents show senior DOJ officials knew about and approved the gunwalking tactic in Fast and Furious. This is the opposite of what Attorney General Eric Holder and House oversight committee ranking Democratic member Rep. Elijah Cummings have claimed.

“Witch Hunt” my a$$…….democrats and Obama’s knee pad brigade should be ashamed of themselves for defending this corruption and criminality.

Baxter Greene on June 26, 2012 at 10:44 AM

Did we pick up some garbage in this thread?

Bambi on June 26, 2012 at 10:34 AM | Delete | Delete and Ban

Yes. They swarm to the F&F threads. That is telling in itself. Backs against the wall.

a capella on June 26, 2012 at 10:45 AM

North Korea will turn into a libertarian paradise of capitalist riches and wealth before the GOP does a DAMN thing about Obama and his violations of the Constitution …

In case readers didn’t already realize it … it’s on.

LOL! On??? Please – it’s words … nothing but words.

HondaV65 on June 26, 2012 at 10:45 AM

Whatever happened to lazy lester? Haven’t seen him around lately.
 
Del Dolemonte on June 26, 2012 at 10:42 AM

 
I’m not sure. I’ve heard there were stealth bannings cleaning up the place, but I doubt that was it. He’s usually spectacularly wrong on almost everything, but I don’t recall him being nasty.

rogerb on June 26, 2012 at 10:46 AM

It has been one heck of a chess game between Issa and Holder.
Holder has been burning through his pieces, including hiding them and makiing false moves. Issa has stuck to the game. kept the pressure on. With Holder’s Queen in jeopardy, he was forced to expose the King. Now, with the King on the move, the end is nigh.

Jabberwock on June 26, 2012 at 10:01 AM

Nice analogy! I love it!

SnarkySam on June 26, 2012 at 10:47 AM

I would expect and understand someone being that strident on a message board – but in a letter from a congressman to a president?
He just sounds pissy. Again.
I’m betting he wrote that one all by himself, with little if any help from staff.

verbaluce on June 26, 2012 at 10:21 AM

Yeah, most intelligent people are capable of drafting/writing their own letters, unlike the dunce in tne WH who can hardly read off a teleprompter what has been written for him, let alo e draft a whole letter by himself……and even with the teleprompter, he still stammers, sputters, uh this, uh that, hardly intelligible stuff…

jimver on June 26, 2012 at 10:47 AM

So. What did the president know, and when did he know it?

Seems to me that I have heard those words somewhere. But I don’t expect Woodward and Bernstein to take much interest. They apparently believe corruption is only corrupt when a Republican does it.

Orson Buggeigh on June 26, 2012 at 10:50 AM

The wheels of justice turn slowly. They are grinding on Holder and now obummer. If this lasts longer then obumble will not be able to pardon Holder.

jake49 on June 26, 2012 at 10:50 AM

Baxter Greene
But you must remember 5th graders are taught to tell the truth, libs not so much………;)

angrymike on June 26, 2012 at 10:50 AM

Impeach NOW!!! I’ve been saying this for two years now. When do the high crimes and misdemeanors pile up high enough for the Congress, both parties, to actually see what’s going on here?

Jarhead68 on June 26, 2012 at 10:34 AM

Reality Check;

Without 66 Conservative Republicans in the Senate, any impeachment is just an academic exercise. (See the Clinton Impeachment and the Senate’s response for a complete and concise explaination of how this would work.)

jaydee_007 on June 26, 2012 at 10:50 AM

Threatening Obama by citing written law is like threatening Ahmadinejad with a strongly worded letter.

Obama has no respect for law and Ahmadinejad has no respect for America.

fogw on June 26, 2012 at 10:50 AM

democrats and Obama’s knee pad brigade should be ashamed of themselves for defending this corruption and criminality.

Baxter Greene on June 26, 2012 at 10:44 AM

Since they have 100 percent embraced the ideology the “The End Justifies the Means” they are utterly and completely incapable of feeling any shame. Here, read what their mentor and the father of their tactical strategy has to say on that subject.

2. Of Means and Ends [Forget moral or ethical considerations]

“The end is what you want, the means is how you get it. Whenever we think about social change, the question of means and ends arises. The man of action views the issue of means and ends in pragmatic and strategic terms. He has no other problem; he thinks only of his actual resources and the possibilities of various choices of action. He asks of ends only whether they are achievable and worth the cost; of means, only whether they will work. … The real arena is corrupt and bloody.” p.24

“The means-and-ends moralists, constantly obsessed with the ethics of the means used by the Have-Nots against the Haves, should search themselves as to their real political position. In fact, they are passive — but real — allies of the Haves…. The most unethical of all means is the non-use of any means… The standards of judgment must be rooted in the whys and wherefores of life as it is lived, the world as it is, not our wished-for fantasy of the world as it should be….” pp.25-26

“The third rule of ethics of means and ends is that in war the end justifies almost any means….” p.29

“The seventh rule… is that generally success or failure is a mighty determinant of ethics….” p.34

“The tenth rule… is you do what you can with what you have and clothe it with moral garments…. It involves sifting the multiple factors which combine in creating the circumstances at any given time… Who, and how many will support the action?… If weapons are needed, then are appropriate d weapons available? Availability of means determines whether you will be underground or above ground; whether you will move quickly or slowly…” p.36

SWalker on June 26, 2012 at 10:50 AM

Hey, what was the name of that troll who hated all of us Southerners and was always calling us racist, homophobic, inbred, backward Bible-thumpers in every thread, regardless of the subject? Was it something like Naruto, or Naruto Boy? That was always great. I think I saw him posting under a different nic over on Newsbusters.

di butler on June 26, 2012 at 10:50 AM

I could never believe Nixon was so stupid as to be involved in some penny ante burglary at Watergate. These Obama kool-aid drinkers cannot believe “The One” is so stupid as to be involved in F&F so be patient with them and have confidence in Issa. Remember these people firmly believe in global warming, Al Gore, Eric Holder, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, AL Sharpton, Ed Schultz and last but not least Obamabi. Their world is unraveling before their eyes so we can’t be too harsh with them. Be gentle.

Herb on June 26, 2012 at 10:51 AM

I am thinking that Issa already has the docs he is requesting. He is giving Holder and now Obama a chance to come clean.
Remember, Issa zinged Holder pretty good with the wiretap appl.
He has someone inside DOJ and Holder knows it.
If Issa can show Obama is hiding something ….
High dudgeon, indeed.

Jabberwock on June 26, 2012 at 10:51 AM

verbaluce on June 26, 2012 at 10:21 AM

I thought it was hilarious that you actually pretended to be conservative when you first showed up.

MadisonConservative on June 26, 2012 at 10:52 AM

Baxter Greene on June 26, 2012 at 10:44 AM

Put another way, if this is a Witch Hunt then there is a Real Witch to go along with it.

jaydee_007 on June 26, 2012 at 10:52 AM

Darrell Issa‏@DarrellIssa

Please read my letter to @barackobama on #fastandfurious & executive privilege & tell me what you think: http://1.usa.gov/LyQnEd
9:48AM-June 26 2012

Darrell Issa‏@DarrellIssa

Or @whitehouse wrongly asserting #fastandfurious exec privilege to knowingly obstruct truth & accountability: http://1.usa.gov/LyQnEd
9:45AM-June 26 2012

Darrell Issa‏@DarrellIssa

Either @barackobama & top @whitehouse staff were involved in managing #fastandfurious & aftermath: http://1.usa.gov/LyQnEd
9:43AM-June 26 2012

Darrell Issa‏@DarrellIssa

.@whitehouse assertion of #fastandfurious executive privilege means one of two things. Care to take a guess? ANSWER: http://1.usa.gov/LyQnEd
9:42AM-June 26 2012
====================

http://twitter.com/#!/DarrellIssa

canopfor on June 26, 2012 at 10:53 AM

SWalker on June 26, 2012 at 10:50 AM

Brutally corrupt.

They apparently didn’t count on Americans fighting back against their radical agenda.

They were wrong.

Baxter Greene on June 26, 2012 at 10:55 AM

Issa to Obama: So … the White House is involved in Fast and Furious, then?

That you’re willing to ignore the bolded part (the bit where Obama tied himself to people being killed) and focus entirely on “pissy” Issa tells us all we need to know.

rogerb on June 26, 2012 at 10:44 AM

This is silly. The topic was the letter.
You are of course free to expand to what you bolded.
But even Issa said he has no evidence of that.
But maybe you do?
Regardless, the letter was in my view just more b.s. grandstanding.
Had Sean Hannity written it, fine.
But it’s fair to expect more of congressmen purportedly engaged in legitimate oversight.
Or not.

verbaluce on June 26, 2012 at 10:55 AM

Herb on June 26, 2012 at 10:51 AM

Nixon never was involved in the penney ante break in.

What he was involved in was assisting his friends who were involved.

Unfortunatly the MSM at the time had an axe to grind with Nixon regarding Algir Hiss and saw an opening for Payback.

When Issa gets done here I’m sure we’ll see the smouldeing resentment from them and will see even the slightest misque create a backlash that will make Watergate look like just too few cookies in the jar.

jaydee_007 on June 26, 2012 at 10:56 AM

verbaluce on June 26, 2012 at 10:21 AM

I thought it was hilarious that you actually pretended to be conservative when you first showed up.

MadisonConservative on June 26, 2012 at 10:52 AM

Compare verbaluce’s tactics to Saul Alinsky’s Rule Number 2. To faux quote Mr. Rogers, “Can you say, Foot meet Shoe?, I knew you could”…

2. Of Means and Ends [Forget moral or ethical considerations]

“The end is what you want, the means is how you get it. Whenever we think about social change, the question of means and ends arises. The man of action views the issue of means and ends in pragmatic and strategic terms. He has no other problem; he thinks only of his actual resources and the possibilities of various choices of action. He asks of ends only whether they are achievable and worth the cost; of means, only whether they will work. … The real arena is corrupt and bloody.” p.24

“The means-and-ends moralists, constantly obsessed with the ethics of the means used by the Have-Nots against the Haves, should search themselves as to their real political position. In fact, they are passive — but real — allies of the Haves…. The most unethical of all means is the non-use of any means… The standards of judgment must be rooted in the whys and wherefores of life as it is lived, the world as it is, not our wished-for fantasy of the world as it should be….” pp.25-26

“The third rule of ethics of means and ends is that in war the end justifies almost any means….” p.29

“The seventh rule… is that generally success or failure is a mighty determinant of ethics….” p.34

“The tenth rule… is you do what you can with what you have and clothe it with moral garments…. It involves sifting the multiple factors which combine in creating the circumstances at any given time… Who, and how many will support the action?… If weapons are needed, then are appropriate d weapons available? Availability of means determines whether you will be underground or above ground; whether you will move quickly or slowly…” p.36

SWalker on June 26, 2012 at 10:57 AM

Queation:
Can the President execute a pardon in advance for himself?

Corky Boyd on June 26, 2012 at 10:57 AM

I’m not sure. I’ve heard there were stealth bannings cleaning up the place,

rogerb on June 26, 2012 at 10:46 AM | Delete | Delete and Ban | Delete and Ban and Duct Tape Them To A Folding Chair

There are no stealth bans occurring, what are you saying? Come on, quit spreading lies.

Bishop on June 26, 2012 at 10:58 AM

If “involved in” means up to your nostrils in effluent with leeches crawling into your years, then yes, the White House is involved in it.

SKYFOX on June 26, 2012 at 10:58 AM

Put another way, if this is a Witch Hunt then there is a Real Witch to go along with it.

jaydee_007 on June 26, 2012 at 10:52 AM

Exactly….

……….and we don’t have to see if she floats on water to verify it.

Just release the documents White House if you have done nothing wrong and have nothing to hide….it’s that easy.

Baxter Greene on June 26, 2012 at 10:58 AM

verbaluce on June 26, 2012 at 10:21 AM

I thought it was hilarious that you actually pretended to be conservative when you first showed up.

MadisonConservative on June 26, 2012 at 10:52 AM

What made you assume that?
I don’t see myself as purely anything, but I would never argue, claim, or pretend that I am a conservative. I got called a marxist here pretty quickly, and I’m not that either.

verbaluce on June 26, 2012 at 10:59 AM

“Either you or your most senior advisors were involved in managing Operation Fast & Furious and the fallout from it,
===================================================

Ya know,I have seen this movie,er,pattern before,I give you
Exhibit…”A”!!

Secret ‘Kill List’ Proves a Test of Obama’s Principles and Will
***************************************************************

Mr. Obama is the liberal law professor who campaigned against the Iraq war and torture, and then insisted on approving every new name on an expanding

“kill list,”

poring over terrorist suspects’

biographies on what one official calls

the macabre “baseball cards”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/29/world/obamas-leadership-in-war-on-al-qaeda.html?pagewanted=all

canopfor on June 26, 2012 at 11:00 AM

Put another way, if this is a Witch Hunt then there is a Real Witch to go along with it.

jaydee_007 on June 26, 2012 at 10:52 AM

Exactly….

……….and we don’t have to see if she floats on water to verify it.

Just release the documents White House if you have done nothing wrong and have nothing to hide….it’s that easy.

Baxter Greene on June 26, 2012 at 10:58 AM

Damn that Darrel Issa for being to one who gets to throw the mop water on the witch… :P

SWalker on June 26, 2012 at 11:00 AM

I’m just so infuriated about this whole mess. I am of the opinion that anyone who says this is just a political witch hunt is at the least stupid and the most evil. Two border agents were killed because of this, hundreds of Mexican citizens were killed and are being killed because of this. Watergate was nothing compared to this! Everyday it’s something new. F&F then the cover-up, Obamacare, Arizona immigration law, bitter clingers, everything is either the fault of Bush or racism, going around Congress at every turn, vacations, golf outings, swattings, Obama asking for the list of contributors for Karl Rove’s foundation, endless campaigning, telling Putin that he will be able to take care of things after the election, and on and on… It’s relentless! This man and his bunch have to go!!!

neyney on June 26, 2012 at 11:01 AM

Just release the documents White House if you have done nothing wrong and have nothing to hide….it’s that easy.

Baxter Greene on June 26, 2012 at 10:58 AM

I tried telling that to one of our resident Bridge Abutment People here the other day, and they simply stuck their fingers in their eyes, started singing “La, La, La, La, La!” and then skipped off.

O’bama and Holder could easily make Issa look like a partisan idiot if in fact they did nothing wrong.

I doubt they’re stringing him along, they really must have something to hide.

Del Dolemonte on June 26, 2012 at 11:02 AM

Compare verbaluce’s tactics to Saul Alinsky’s Rule Number 2. To faux quote Mr. Rogers, “Can you say, Foot meet Shoe?, I knew you could”…

SWalker on June 26, 2012 at 10:57 AM

Oh great…here we go.

verbaluce on June 26, 2012 at 11:03 AM

What do Holder and Obama have to hide??

Operation Litterbox — because this is a cover up.

pastselldate on June 26, 2012 at 11:03 AM

I would expect and understand someone being that strident on a message board – but in a letter from a congressman to a president?
He just sounds pissy. Again.
I’m betting he wrote that one all by himself, with little if any help from staff.

verbaluce on June 26, 2012 at 10:21 AM

Are you inferring that Obama DESERVES more than that? Hell no! The person who cleans the floors in the White House deserves more respect than the one occupying the Oval Office.

BettyRuth on June 26, 2012 at 11:04 AM

Neither does he.
Unless he does in an excerpt that hasn’t been leaked to Daily Caller…is there a link of the full letter?

verbaluce on June 26, 2012 at 10:38 AM

Typical liberal, too damn lazy to do something for yourself.

http://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/oversight@mail.house_.gov_20120625_230445.pdf

Flora Duh on June 26, 2012 at 11:04 AM

verbaluce on June 26, 2012 at 10:55 AM

Heh. Grandstanding, eh? I’d call it transparency,…you are familiar with that word?

a capella on June 26, 2012 at 11:04 AM

But it’s fair to expect more of congressmen purportedly engaged in legitimate oversight.
Or not.

verbaluce on June 26, 2012 at 10:55 AM

Whoa!!….you have got to be kidding with this idiocy.

You defend an administration that institutes a program that has helped kill hundreds of people along with American law enforcement…..then is caught lying repeatedly……then does everything it can to cover up their involvement.

……..then you have the hilarious audacity to “expect” more from Issa who is wanting to shine light on this program….expecting Obama to live up to all of his “transparency” rhetoric.

You really are a joke.

Baxter Greene on June 26, 2012 at 11:05 AM

Typical liberal, too damn lazy to do something for yourself.

http://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/oversight@mail.house_.gov_20120625_230445.pdf

Flora Duh on June 26, 2012 at 11:04 AM

It’s the Julia mentality.

a capella on June 26, 2012 at 11:06 AM

Big surprsie that Issa already holds Obama in contempt, but now he sends hate mail?
I would expect and understand someone being that strident on a message board – but in a letter from a congressman to a president?
He just sounds pissy. Again.
I’m betting he wrote that one all by himself, with little if any help from staff.

verbaluce on June 26, 2012 at 10:21 AM

All thinking Americans hold Obama in contempt. What was hateful about the letter? Why do you liberals expect to be treated with kid gloves when you are the vilest, most uncivil people in the world?

Night Owl on June 26, 2012 at 11:07 AM

I got called a marxist here pretty quickly, and I’m not that either.

verbaluce on June 26, 2012 at 10:59 AM

I trust, that given the nature of the arguments you have employed here so far, you will not be overly surprised when nobody here takes the veracity of your statement as self evident. Such an action, given the spurious nature of your contentions, would require a willful suspension of disbelief akin to a self administered lobotomy.

SWalker on June 26, 2012 at 11:07 AM

look, this idiot is well on his way to a chavez like existence, he thinks that his minions on the left will be at his side when they cheat in the election. the problem is, like in wisconsin, loading up the trunk with ballots doesn’t work when the people recognize what they’re up to. the tally will be so landslidish that the recount can’t be justified. when they realize the certitude of losing, they will gin up something that’ll cancel the vote, only to find out that also can’t be done. hillary and the rest of the progressive bunch played their hand about 15 years too early.in the end, right will win out, through providence, and good americans who believe in the rule of law.

tm11999 on June 26, 2012 at 11:07 AM

Queation:
Can the President execute a pardon in advance for himself?

Corky Boyd on June 26, 2012 at 10:57 AM

I know a President that will surely try.

Finbar on June 26, 2012 at 11:08 AM

This is really all just about Issa’s desire to deny minority voting rights. It’s a racial thing./

a capella on June 26, 2012 at 10:40 AM

just when you didn’t think the left could sink any lower listen to sharpton at 1:40 that he is meeting with civil rights leader today to explore the Issa/holder matter.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3096434/#47959095

renalin on June 26, 2012 at 11:09 AM

I tried telling that to one of our resident Bridge Abutment People here the other day, and they simply stuck their fingers in their eyes, started singing “La, La, La, La, La!” and then skipped off.

O’bama and Holder could easily make Issa look like a partisan idiot if in fact they did nothing wrong.

I doubt they’re stringing him along, they really must have something to hide.

Del Dolemonte on June 26, 2012 at 11:02 AM

Exactly….

Watching liberals defend such obvious corruption is a sight to see.

I guess when Obama stated he was going to change “business as usual” on Capital Hill he meant he was going to be more corrupt than any President before him.

Watching the same liberals who got their panties all tied up in a bunch over Sandra Fluke defend an administration that has helped murder hundreds of people shows just how pathetic and ideologically brainwashed the democratic party is.

Baxter Greene on June 26, 2012 at 11:09 AM

Typical liberal, too damn lazy to do something for yourself.
Flora Duh on June 26, 2012 at 11:04 AM

Thanks, Flora.
And can you grab me a coffee when you have a sec…
:)

verbaluce on June 26, 2012 at 11:09 AM

I doubt they’re stringing him along, they really must have something to hide.

Del Dolemonte on June 26, 2012 at 11:02 AM | Delete | Delete and Ban

You can bet your bippy it is more than simply who authorized the project.

a capella on June 26, 2012 at 11:10 AM

Why does anyone engage with trolls who just come here to deflect the truth, no matter how hard you try they still either don’t believe, intentionally ignore or just plain lie. I say ignore the troll…….;)

angrymike on June 26, 2012 at 11:12 AM

I trust, that given the nature of the arguments you have employed here so far, you will not be overly surprised when nobody here takes the veracity of your statement as self evident. Such an action, given the spurious nature of your contentions, would require a willful suspension of disbelief akin to a self administered lobotomy.

SWalker on June 26, 2012 at 11:07 AM

You can be lobotomized twice?

verbaluce on June 26, 2012 at 11:12 AM

I trust, that given the nature of the arguments you have employed here so far, you will not be overly surprised when nobody here takes the veracity of your statement as self evident. Such an action, given the spurious nature of your contentions, would require a willful suspension of disbelief akin to a self administered lobotomy.

SWalker on June 26, 2012 at 11:07 AM

You can be lobotomized twice?

verbaluce on June 26, 2012 at 11:12 AM

Let me ask your doctor.

SWalker on June 26, 2012 at 11:13 AM

renalin on June 26, 2012 at 11:09 AM

Thanks. It’s fun watching these idiots walk into the flypaper

a capella on June 26, 2012 at 11:13 AM

Why do you liberals expect to be treated with kid gloves when you are the vilest, most uncivil people in the world?

Night Owl on June 26, 2012 at 11:07 AM

Um…ok.
Well based on that, I suppose one could argue Issa forced some restraint here…

verbaluce on June 26, 2012 at 11:15 AM

The DOJ has an IG doing it’s own investigation. Has been on going for AT LEAST 12 months now.
Why havn’t we heard anything from this investigation ?
If they have nothing to report in 12 months, they never will.

Jabberwock on June 26, 2012 at 11:16 AM

Let me ask your doctor.

SWalker on June 26, 2012 at 11:13 AM

Those aren’t doctors you see.
The white coats can be tricky.

(I’ll give you the last jibe. Make it a good one?)

verbaluce on June 26, 2012 at 11:18 AM

Why does anyone engage with trolls who just come here to deflect the truth, no matter how hard you try they still either don’t believe, intentionally ignore or just plain lie. I say ignore the troll…….;)

angrymike on June 26, 2012 at 11:12 AM

The only issue with ignoring the Troll is that the ‘lurker’ who isn’t maybe getting the in depth stories and visits, sees the Troll’s remarks (which, by sheer coincidence, match up with what they are seeing on the Alphabet Soup networks) and no one answering them and may walk away with the thought that if they don’t agree with the Troll they are alone in their thinking.

I answer Trolls not to convince the Trolls, but for the casual reader.

Trolls are pretty well established with mindes of Cement, all mixed up and permenantly set. (Or Open Minded if you ask them.)

jaydee_007 on June 26, 2012 at 11:19 AM

The DOJ has an IG doing it’s own investigation. Has been on going for AT LEAST 12 months now.
Why havn’t we heard anything from this investigation ?
If they have nothing to report in 12 months, they never will.

Jabberwock on June 26, 2012 at 11:16 AM

I’m going to go out on a limb here and suggest that it’s because the DOJ internal investigation isn’t suppose to find whose culpable, but to find damaging documentation and make it disappear.

SWalker on June 26, 2012 at 11:19 AM

Hint: Issa isn’t the topic.
rogerb on June 26, 2012 at 10:24 AM

 
Well then your complaint is with Ed…not me.
verbaluce on June 26, 2012 at 10:30 AM

 
…focus entirely on “pissy” Issa tells us all we need to know.
rogerb on June 26, 2012 at 10:44 AM

 
This is silly. The topic was the letter.
verbaluce on June 26, 2012 at 10:55 AM

 
Well played.

rogerb on June 26, 2012 at 11:21 AM

The DOJ has an IG doing it’s own investigation. Has been on going for AT LEAST 12 months now.
Why havn’t we heard anything from this investigation ?
If they have nothing to report in 12 months, they never will.

Jabberwock on June 26, 2012 at 11:16 AM

See: Fox Guarding Henhouse - for a complete and concise explaination.

jaydee_007 on June 26, 2012 at 11:22 AM

Um…ok.
Well based on that, I suppose one could argue Issa forced some restraint here…

verbaluce on June 26, 2012 at 11:15 AM

Is asking uncomfortable questions pissy?

Night Owl on June 26, 2012 at 11:22 AM

SnarkySam on June 26, 2012 at 10:34 AM

Valerie Jarrett. She runs this administration. Everything runs through her. Make no mistake about that.

ButterflyDragon on June 26, 2012 at 11:24 AM

Electrongod on June 26, 2012 at 9:46 AM

The ends justifies the means.

chemman on June 26, 2012 at 11:25 AM

just when you didn’t think the left could sink any lower listen to sharpton at 1:40 that he is meeting with civil rights leader today to explore the Issa/holder matter.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3096434/#47959095

renalin on June 26, 2012 at 11:09 AM

Good….
………the American people overwhelmingly believe Obama is hiding something and are now starting to understand what “Fast n Furious” was all about.

If Obama wants to alienate even more of the electorate…..
……then getting the Sharpton gang together to get in the streets and start yelling “racism” is the way to do it.

People have grown increasingly tired of hearing “racism” yelled every time Obama’s policies are questioned.

Americans watching a President cover up for a program and DOJ that instituted a dangerously irresponsible program like Fast n Furious….then be called racist because they want answers will sicken them even more against this administration.

So please Sharpton…..get your race hustling machine running full speed ahead and we will quickly see “who acted stupidly.”

Baxter Greene on June 26, 2012 at 11:25 AM

The DOJ has an IG doing it’s own investigation. Has been on going for AT LEAST 12 months now.
Why havn’t we heard anything from this investigation ?
If they have nothing to report in 12 months, they never will.

Jabberwock on June 26, 2012 at 11:16 AM
I’m going to go out on a limb here and suggest that it’s because the DOJ internal investigation isn’t suppose to find whose culpable, but to find damaging documentation and make it disappear.

SWalker on June 26, 2012 at 11:19 AM | Delete | Delete and Ban

If EP invoked, they didn’t do a very good job, eh ?

They need to be very careful that their findings match that of Issa’s work.

I am thinking that Issa’s mole is part of the IG investigation.
Now THAT would be a hoot !

Jabberwock on June 26, 2012 at 11:25 AM

Thanks, Flora.
And can you grab me a coffee when you have a sec…
:)

verbaluce on June 26, 2012 at 11:09 AM

Well bless your little heart.

Look guys, this little troll thinks it’s going to rile me by being cutesy.

“A few years ago, this guy would have been getting us coffee.” – Bill Clinton speaking to Ted Kennedy about Barak Obama.

Flora Duh on June 26, 2012 at 11:26 AM

Is asking uncomfortable questions pissy?

Night Owl on June 26, 2012 at 11:22 AM

No…according to democrats….it’s “racist.”

Baxter Greene on June 26, 2012 at 11:26 AM

I don’t see myself as purely anything

lol…..I do (but you wouldn’t like it).

I got called a marxist here pretty quickly, and I’m not that either.

verbaluce on June 26, 2012 at 10:59 AM

and that was wrong….your actually too stupid to be a true Marxist (as dumb as those morons are, they aren’t near as intellectually lazy as you….they’re simply lemmings).. I’d put you in the pure “moron” catagory.

Tim_CA on June 26, 2012 at 11:28 AM

Well played.

rogerb on June 26, 2012 at 11:21 AM | Delete | Delete and Ban

Heh. Delightful!

a capella on June 26, 2012 at 11:29 AM

Issa took some heat for the slow but painstaking process of building his case, but it turns out he wanted all his ducks lined up before he moved forward.

rob verdi on June 26, 2012 at 9:27 AM


In this case, the ducks have conveniently painted themselves with neon orange paint, clipped their own wings and waddled into a barrel.

I am convinced Issa has moles inside the DoJ who have cut deals for immunity from prosecution (i.e. it would be just too wonderful if Lanny Breuer was one of the moles) in return for delivering documents which show F&F was a criminal conspiracy from the get go.

I’m willing to bet that among the hidden (and very likely already-shredded) documents, there are damning transcripts which reveal that Napolitano, Holder, and/or SippyCup accepted the potential loss of life for American & Mexican citizens.

IMO, SippyCup wanted to dilute the 2nd Amendment “under the radar”. If true, that’s worthy of impeachment at the very least.

Too bad we don’t have a vigilant press or a Congress worth their paycheck any more; SippyCup & Holder will likely get off, scot-free.

This is who they are: Evil.

SnarkySam on June 26, 2012 at 10:34 AM


Welcome to the information age, where nothing is ever truly capable of being destroyed …

All that is really required is one IT person who decides to “do the right thing”, take backup tapes to the Oversight Committee and get immunity from prosecution and you would have evidence to convict EVERYONE.

Irony – federal investigations of wrongdoing these days start with a notice to IT personnel that they are required to keep ALL relevant backup tapes out of the “re-use” cycle in perpetuity

PolAgnostic on June 26, 2012 at 11:30 AM

Hey, I’ve got an idea! Let’s argue about the tone of Issa’s letter!

SurferDoc on June 26, 2012 at 11:30 AM

I’m going to go out on a limb here and suggest that it’s because the DOJ internal investigation isn’t suppose to find whose culpable, but to find damaging documentation and make it disappear.
 
SWalker on June 26, 2012 at 11:19 AM

 
A bit like needing a constitutional law professor to more easily avoid constitutional constraints?
 
I’m betting most folks thought it was supposed to work the other way round…

rogerb on June 26, 2012 at 11:32 AM

“A few years ago, this guy would have been getting us coffee.” – Bill Clinton speaking to Ted Kennedy about Barak Obama.

Flora Duh on June 26, 2012 at 11:26 AM

I’ve always wondered if Slick was referring to the days before the Civil Rights Act.

a capella on June 26, 2012 at 11:32 AM

I’d put you in the pure “moron” catagory.

Tim_CA on June 26, 2012 at 11:28 AM

Actually, everything I’ve read of his suggest he’s a lawyer of some sort. Criminal defense attorney perhaps.

SWalker on June 26, 2012 at 11:34 AM

Thanks, Flora.
And can you grab me a coffee when you have a sec…
:)

verbaluce on June 26, 2012 at 11:09 AM

Well bless your little heart.

Look guys, this little troll thinks it’s going to rile me by being cutesy.

“A few years ago, this guy would have been getting us coffee.” – Bill Clinton speaking to Ted Kennedy about Barak Obama.

Flora Duh on June 26, 2012 at 11:26 AM

.
The troll is just displaying the misogynistic mindset of liberals, which is the same whether male or female. The most self loathing women I have known have all been liberals.

PolAgnostic on June 26, 2012 at 11:36 AM

Who is the IG appointed by Holder to conduct the internal investigation? Any legacy media interested in talking with him..?

d1carter on June 26, 2012 at 11:36 AM

I’ve always wondered if Slick was referring to the days before the Civil Rights Act.

a capella on June 26, 2012 at 11:32 AM

I’ve always given B. J. the benefit of the doubt on that statement.

Forget obumbles skin color…in the world of politics, the dork is a lightweight idealogue, nothing more.

In a rational world, getting coffee is just about where the marxist messiah maxes out his pay grade.

Tim_CA on June 26, 2012 at 11:38 AM

See: Fox Guarding Henhouse – for a complete and concise explaination.

jaydee_007 on June 26, 2012 at 11:22 AM | Delete | Delete and Ban

I think this particular fox told Holder he has some bad chickens.
Slaughtering them is not an option.

Jabberwock on June 26, 2012 at 11:38 AM

In this thread you have Honda who wants Issa to challenge Holder to a duel, or else he’s a pu**y, and verbaluce who thinks Issa should consult Emily Post when corresponding with a lying government official that he plans to charge with contempt. Oy vey.

di butler on June 26, 2012 at 11:39 AM

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