CNN op-ed: We might not be able to handle the truth on Fast & Furious, so let’s not be “nosy”

posted at 8:46 pm on June 26, 2012 by Allahpundit

When I started reading this, I thought it was building to the argument that of course we should trust that our saintly president hasn’t done anything shady and quit bugging him with pesky document requests already. Nope. What this guy’s actually arguing is that it’s all too likely that Obama or Holder or someone in the food chain has done something shady but that they probably had a well-meaning, pro-American reason to do so, so maybe we should just kind of go easy, huh?

Two possible explanations. One: LZ Granderson is really, seriously advocating carte blanche without oversight for whichever side is in power. (He’s willing to let Oliver North slide on his Iran-Contra dealings too.) Two: LZ Granderson is basically trolling his own site for traffic. In that case, here you go, buddy. Here’s your link.

Heads should roll because of the Fast and Furious debacle. We don’t need every detail of that operation to be made public in order for that to happen…

Project Wide Receiver and Project Road Runner — the earlier versions of Fast and Furious under President Bush — were executed with the hope that they will do more good than harm. Hardly anyone in the public knows the finer points of these programs…

By allowing guns to infiltrate Mexico’s drug cartel, we thought we could trace them up the ladder to the leaders. Take off the head and the body dies. As for the innocent people who lost their lives? Collateral damage. That’s the uncomfortable backstory to this scandal. And there are likely other operations like it in our nation’s history that we don’t even have a clue about.

And maybe it’s better for us not to be so nosy, not to know everything because, to paraphrase the famous line from the movie “A Few Good Men,” many of us won’t be able to handle the truth.

I thought the whole point of Issa’s document request was that we don’t know for sure what the purpose of Fast & Furious was — Issa himself apparently doesn’t think it was chiefly about breaking up cartels — and that, once we find out, then we’ll have a better sense of which heads should roll. I’m actually curious: Who does Granderson want fired? Is he ready to cut Holder loose on the mere suspicion that the White House has covered something up? If so, he’s actually a step past Issa on that. Even if the White House isn’t guilty of anything, wouldn’t you want to see the documents to know how an idea as insane as gunwalking got greenlit in the first place, in case it offers some insight on how to reform the DOJ institutionally? Transparency’s pretty useful to good government. You’d think a guy who touts his award for “journalist of the year” at the top of his column would understand that.

Incidentally, White House and DOJ lawyers met today with Boehner’s aides and offered to produce 30 or so documents in return for the contempt charge against Holder being dropped. No deal. And do note: There is indeed at least one Democrat who’s planning to vote for contempt on Thursday.


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Weren’t the guns lacking tracing device tags, i.e., GPS ?

Bmore on June 26, 2012 at 9:30 PM

That’s correct. Once the guns were sold they were untraceable until they turned up at crime scenes. Which raises the interesting question: what convinced the gun buyers, runners, and the cartels that this was the case? After all, despite lapses and some failures, people were tracked and arrested as guns moved around in Operation Wide Receiver. The cartels knew this. What– or who– convinced them to go for the Fast and Furious guns?

By the way, who deliberately leaves guns at crime scenes– enough to connect the Fast and Furious guns with the deaths of two U.S. agents and 300 plus Mexicans? Why smuggle guns from the U.S. into Mexico, and then leave them lying around to be picked up by federales or U.S. investigators after use?

Nothing about this operation smells right.

de rigueur on June 26, 2012 at 10:00 PM

And with that they lost their last three viewers.

Axion on June 26, 2012 at 9:52 PM

Thread-winner!

Rovin on June 26, 2012 at 10:01 PM

I give it the triple hitter- hate,loath, and abhor.

bazil9 on June 26, 2012 at 9:59 PM

Nice play!

D-fusit on June 26, 2012 at 10:03 PM

I have no idea, but I do know that you guys come up with really cool names for your fake scandals.

crr6 on July 10, 2011 at 1:24 PM

Del Dolemonte on June 26, 2012 at 10:04 PM

Incidentally, White House and DOJ lawyers met today with Boehner’s aides and offered to produce 30 or so documents

Out of 160,000 or so that have been asked for?

D-

D for Documents

Del Dolemonte on June 26, 2012 at 10:06 PM

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on June 26, 2012 at 9:12 PM

Indeed.
All intentional.
All malevolent.
In a sane country, these two would be wearing orange jumpsuits.

justltl on June 26, 2012 at 10:06 PM

JIMV-

Here is a tid bit:

On March 30, the 30th anniversary of the assassination attempt on President Ronald Reagan, Jim Brady, who sustained a debilitating head wound in the attack, and his wife, Sarah, came to Capitol Hill to push for a ban on the controversial “large magazines.” Brady, for whom the law requiring background checks on handgun purchasers is named, then met with White House press secretary Jay Carney. During the meeting, President Obama dropped in and, according to Sarah Brady, brought up the issue of gun control, “to fill us in that it was very much on his agenda,” she said.

“I just want you to know that we are working on it,” Brady recalled the president telling them. “We have to go through a few processes, but under the radar.” Washington Post

bazil9 on June 26, 2012 at 10:07 PM

Incidentally, White House and DOJ lawyers met today with Boehner’s aides and offered to produce 30 or so documents in return for the contempt charge against Holder being dropped.

“THIS PAGE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK” X 30

no takers????
/amazed.

ted c on June 26, 2012 at 10:08 PM

Nice play!

D-fusit on June 26, 2012 at 10:03 PM

Add detest for a home run. :)

bazil9 on June 26, 2012 at 10:08 PM

Rovin on June 26, 2012 at 10:01 PM

2nd that

cmsinaz on June 26, 2012 at 10:08 PM

Let’s find out about those Bush programs. Were they run out of El Paso by Johnny Sutton and the DHS people who went after Ramos and Compean? We know they had a soft spot for the drug runners and probably felt they needed to be armed better against the border agents. Bet you’ll find Davila, the smuggler from the Ramos and Compean case, was a member of the cartel that got the Bush guns.

Buddahpundit on June 26, 2012 at 10:08 PM

Nothing about this operation smells right.

de rigueur on June 26, 2012 at 10:00 PM

You raise some good points. Some of the purchases were for more than ten guns. I know AZ has more reasonable purchase laws than Commifornia but still, why would someone think ten guns esp “assault weapons” would not raise red flags?

Then when they did attempt purchases, the gun dealers notified ATF who said yeah, sell em.

arnold ziffel on June 26, 2012 at 10:09 PM

Incidentally, White House and DOJ lawyers met today with Boehner’s aides and offered to produce 30 or so documents in return for the contempt charge against Holder being dropped.

“THIS PAGE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK” X 30

no takers????
/amazed.

ted c on June 26, 2012 at 10:08 PM

LMAO@ the level of stupidity and bullsh$t.
Bury the mthr effer

bazil9 on June 26, 2012 at 10:10 PM

JIMV-

Here is a tid bit:

On March 30, the 30th anniversary of the assassination attempt on President Ronald Reagan, Jim Brady, who sustained a debilitating head wound in the attack, and his wife, Sarah, came to Capitol Hill to push for a ban on the controversial “large magazines.” Brady, for whom the law requiring background checks on handgun purchasers is named, then met with White House press secretary Jay Carney. During the meeting, President Obama dropped in and, according to Sarah Brady, brought up the issue of gun control, “to fill us in that it was very much on his agenda,” she said.

“I just want you to know that we are working on it,” Brady recalled the president telling them. “We have to go through a few processes, but under the radar.” Washington Post

bazil9 on June 26, 2012 at 10:07 PM

I am firmly convinced this is about covering senior administration folks butts. They made two mistakes…they never considered whistle-blowers and they seem to have left a paper trail…Now they are covering that record trail.

JIMV on June 26, 2012 at 10:14 PM

And maybe it’s better for us not to be so nosy, not to know everything because, to paraphrase the famous line from the movie “A Few Good Men,” many of us won’t be able to handle the truth.

Why do liberal journalist always think most Americans live in a Hollywood world of fantasy? Are they really this stupid?

Rovin on June 26, 2012 at 9:24 PM

Limbaugh mentioned the new HBO series “The Newsroom” today, and read a long narrative review of the show that captured it perfectly. Wish I had the link to the review, but basically the show (from Sorkin of “West Wing” fame) is nothing more than an Adult Democrat Cartoon Show rewriting history to make events that didn’t go the way the Left wanted them to are magically transformed into an entirely different universe.

Help me out, someone. What was the review Rush cited?

Del Dolemonte on June 26, 2012 at 10:15 PM

When did we as a country go so wrong?

How did we get to a place in time when the top law enforcement officer in the federal government is as corrupt a criminal as those that are incarcerated for life for crime that he has committed.

Power Corrupts – Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely

D-fusit on June 26, 2012 at 10:18 PM

Has anyone checked out the comments over there?

And don’t forget it’s CNN…LOL

idesign on June 26, 2012 at 10:19 PM

Del Dole

This?

bazil9 on June 26, 2012 at 10:19 PM

And maybe it’s better for us not to be so nosy, not to know everything because, to paraphrase the famous line from the movie “A Few Good Men,” many of us won’t be able to handle the truth.

In other words, he is hoping to treat this like the Bugblatter Beast of Traal! If we only put a towel over our liberal heads, F&F will be too confused to devour our President’s legacy!

dominigan on June 26, 2012 at 10:19 PM

Nothing about this operation smells right.

de rigueur on June 26, 2012 at 10:00 PM

Nope, sure doesn’t, unless it’s the way they intended to play it.

Bmore on June 26, 2012 at 10:23 PM

And sometimes the federal government deems it necessary to get its hands a little dirty in the hopes of achieving something we generally accept as good for the country.

So Mr. Granderson still believes the Obama administration acts with only the best interests of the United States in mind?

Bless his heart.

lynncgb on June 26, 2012 at 10:24 PM

“Make a deal over .. 30 or so documents”

Yeah, Former Rep. Bart Stupak (D-MI) took a spin around the dancefloor with that devil about 2 years ago – - O’Barky promised him the moon & stars, stole those 18 hold-out AHA votes, picked his bones clean, and hung him out to ‘spend more time with his family’.

Good on Issa for sticking to his guns ..
/.

CaveatEmpty on June 26, 2012 at 10:26 PM

Again the Time line…2009 was a year of Justice trying to justify new gun control on the border because US sourced guns were said to be a big problem in Mexican drug violence. The problem for Justice is their numbers were bogus and Congress was opposed to any new schemes…a few months later, and completely secretly, a new scheme was created to flood Mexico drug lords with US sourced guns but, unlike the Bush programs, no system to track the weapons was set up and Mexico was not involved…

So the question…what is the purpose of a program that did nothing but flood Mexico with US sourced guns? To me and a lot of others, that purpose was simple, insure gun scenes are actually littered with guns sourced from the USA, followed by demands for more gun control.

I believe the papers being denied have the proof…A scheme to create more gun control that resulted in actual dead folk would be terminal for any administration involved. That is what a lot of us believe is happening…

Why else flood un-traced guns into Mexico? Why indeed…

JIMV on June 26, 2012 at 9:56 PM

Good. This demonstrates that it is not a ‘botched program’ at all, as the democratics are calling it. It was doing exactly what they wanted it to do, to create lots of dead Mexicans that could be blamed on us. What went wrong is that we found out about it.

slickwillie2001 on June 26, 2012 at 10:29 PM

Nope, sure doesn’t, unless it’s the way they intended to play it.

Bmore on June 26, 2012 at 10:23 PM

Well, then it really stinks because that would imply some degree of shared information and cooperation between Mexican drug cartels and U.S. agencies. Smells like… collusion. Or criminal conspiracy.

de rigueur on June 26, 2012 at 10:33 PM

And with that they lost their last three viewers.

Axion on June 26, 2012 at 9:52 PM

Thread-winner!

Rovin on June 26, 2012 at 10:01 PM

Building on something Rush said today, -I’d suggest that CNN replace some of their shows with a color bar display. There’s often a need to adjust your tv, and where do you get a color bar display when you need one?

That might get them more viewers than what they do now.

slickwillie2001 on June 26, 2012 at 10:33 PM

That might have been true under Wide Receiver, when the guns were tracked by GPS (as long as it worked) and the Mexican authorities were in the loop and assisting in the sting. Fast and Furious featured neither of those two procedures.

*snip*

eon on June 26, 2012 at 9:05 PM


This is the key differentiator between the two programs:

Wide Receiver – each gun had its own inconspicuous GPS tracking dot

Fast & Furious – no tracking dots on any of the guns

This is not rocket science – if you are not using the dots …

Your INTENT is to make sure the guns can NOT be tracked to an American government operation. You WANT them to be seen as regular gun store sales.

Fast & Furious was from the outset a political exercise intended to provide “confirming data” of the anti-gun positions being esposed BEFORE it began.

The tool on CNN is a useful idiot who has been told HE can make a case the right wingers will ALL buy in to … because we are ALL foaming at the mouth Jack Nicholson lunatics, don’t you know.

PolAgnostic on June 26, 2012 at 10:39 PM

This is the key differentiator between the two programs:

Wide Receiver – each gun had its own inconspicuous GPS tracking dot

Fast & Furious – no tracking dots on any of the guns

This is not rocket science – if you are not using the dots …

Your INTENT is to make sure the guns can NOT be tracked to an American government operation. You WANT them to be seen as regular gun store sales.

Fast & Furious was from the outset a political exercise intended to provide “confirming data” of the anti-gun positions being esposed BEFORE it began.

The tool on CNN is a useful idiot who has been told HE can make a case the right wingers will ALL buy in to … because we are ALL foaming at the mouth Jack Nicholson lunatics, don’t you know.

PolAgnostic on June 26, 2012 at 10:39 PM

the other key differentiator is the body bag count
Wide Receiver: 0
Fast & Furious: 201....and growing

differentiators/

ted c on June 26, 2012 at 10:42 PM

This is not rocket science – if you are not using the dots …

Your INTENT is to make sure the guns can NOT be tracked to an American government operation. You WANT them to be seen as regular gun store sales.

Fast & Furious was from the outset a political exercise intended to provide “confirming data” of the anti-gun positions being esposed BEFORE it began.

The tool on CNN is a useful idiot who has been told HE can make a case the right wingers will ALL buy in to … because we are ALL foaming at the mouth Jack Nicholson lunatics, don’t you know.

PolAgnostic on June 26, 2012 at 10:39 PM

This is why I like HA. Excellent point.

arnold ziffel on June 26, 2012 at 10:44 PM

Absolutely right…the only possible reason for a scheme set up like this was to litter crimes scenes with US weapons and then piously demand more gun control. The Saul Alinsky theory of crisis…

JIMV on June 26, 2012 at 10:47 PM

Lest anyone think we’re sexists around here, I’d suggest that after fitting O’Bumbles and Holder for their prison garb, we do the same for Valerie Jarrett, because, as put forth on another thread, this whole operation might have been her idea. So let’s fit her for a jumpsuit, too. She’ll look fabulous in orange. :)

Moose Drool on June 26, 2012 at 10:51 PM

the other key differentiator is the body bag count
Wide Receiver: 0
Fast & Furious: 201….and growing

differentiators/

ted c on June 26, 2012 at 10:42 PM


thank you for adding those numbers, ted

I forgot to put them in my post … but I thought the total count was 300 known Mexican deaths and 2 American LEO …?

PolAgnostic on June 26, 2012 at 10:58 PM

Lest anyone think we’re sexists around here, I’d suggest that after fitting O’Bumbles and Holder for their prison garb, we do the same for Valerie Jarrett, because, as put forth on another thread, this whole operation might have been her idea. So let’s fit her for a jumpsuit, too. She’ll look fabulous in orange. :)

Moose Drool on June 26, 2012 at 10:51 PM


We’re as equal opportunity as anyone can be!

BTW, Hillary will be wanting something in an orange Pantsuit

PolAgnostic on June 26, 2012 at 11:00 PM

Heh, what are a few dead when a higher cause is in play, gun control and growing government.

JIMV on June 26, 2012 at 11:01 PM

two
orange
jumpsuits

hillsoftx on June 26, 2012 at 11:03 PM

Your INTENT is to make sure the guns can NOT be tracked to an American government operation. You WANT them to be seen as regular gun store sales.

Fast & Furious was from the outset a political exercise intended to provide “confirming data” of the anti-gun positions being esposed BEFORE it began.

PolAgnostic on June 26, 2012 at 10:39 PM

But they were tracked to an American government operation. The agents ( US agents? ) working the Mexican crime scene must have ran the numbers on the guns and found that they were part of Obama’s gun running “program”.

Buddahpundit on June 26, 2012 at 11:05 PM

Heh, what are a few dead when a higher cause is in play, gun control and growing government.

JIMV on June 26, 2012 at 11:01 PM

Third, Mexico is so violent, let’s allow a few million more to come to the USA and escape that violence.

slickwillie2001 on June 26, 2012 at 11:09 PM

You have to remember, the idea was for the entire program to ‘not exist’…that simply traces the guns back to US gun shops. Does anyone believe a gun dealer claiming the ATF told him to illegally sell guns to drug cartels would be believed if the ATF denied it?

They got caught…

JIMV on June 26, 2012 at 11:11 PM

Translation: Obama giving Holer EP confirms that the White House was involved with F&F decision making and that being revealed will be devastating to the American public which is already fed up with its politicians.

Yakko77 on June 26, 2012 at 11:12 PM

The agents ( US agents? ) working the Mexican crime scene must have ran the numbers on the guns and found that they were part of Obama’s gun running “program”.

Buddahpundit on June 26, 2012 at 11:05 PM

Issa has not connected those dots, (that this was Obama-approved), YET, one has to wonder how far the President plans to commit to protecting/covering up this “botched program”. He could be stepping on Nixon’s toes, if he’s participated in this fiasco.

Rovin on June 26, 2012 at 11:17 PM

I’m afraid that they’re just haggling terms here with this current pi$$ing contest.

IMO, eventually, Boehner’s gonna accept something considerably less than full disclosure, with revelation of some carefully selected and redacted documents. In return, the WH will have to offer up one or more people fairly high up, but not Holder, to go under the famous bus, all in the name of restoration of “bipartisan comity” and avoiding a hurtful process for the country.

If this is actually what it is looking more and more like, I don’t believe that the GOP has the stones to follow through all the way, and they will be thrilled to be given an adequate scapegoat.

I pray I’m wrong.

bofh on June 26, 2012 at 11:19 PM

I fear you are right…but that will not change the facts…

JIMV on June 26, 2012 at 11:25 PM

I believe the papers being denied have the proof…A scheme to create more gun control that resulted in actual dead folk would be terminal for any administration involved. That is what a lot of us believe is happening…

Why else flood un-traced guns into Mexico? Why indeed…

JIMV on June 26, 2012 at 9:56 PM

See, this part bothers me too; if those docs do exist – and I think they do – they won’t for very long.

They *will* be destroyed before provided to *anyone* – there is no way these people will choose 1) providing the docs as required by law and losing power if not going to prison, vs. 2) illegally destroying the evidence in an effort to avoid #1.

No way.

Midas on June 26, 2012 at 11:29 PM

If I’m wrong correct me, but isn’t Issa seeking documents relating to the letter of Feb 4 2011 that was sent to Grassley denying any such program, which was subsequently pulled back 10 months later?Or is he more interested in the documents involved in the development of F&F?

xkaydet65 on June 26, 2012 at 11:34 PM

My best read of the whole thing is that those papers show that incredibly enough, that the President himself signed off on the deal, or at least had briefings on the issue….maybe even one that shows his written okay(?)

Not too far off the mark, IIRC quite a few stories in the NYT came out about the “Hands On” President on drone strikes.

F&F is a swiped idea: originally a law enforcement sting, modified (badly) into a attempt to manipulate public perception and policy. Like most of those types of endeavors it did not/will not end well for everyone involved.

But, my woolgathering aside, lets say it only goes as high as Holder…what will the WH do? 2 Questions.

Do they still have enough political capitol to cover Holder until after the election?

*OR*

Does Holder have the will to throw himself out there as final cover for the President?

BlaxPac on June 26, 2012 at 11:38 PM

Now children, we don’t want to see details do we? Besides anyone questioning alleged crimes committed by a black attorney general, covered up by a black president and soon to be whitewashed (no pun intended) by a black special investigator who “coincidentally” happens to be politically in bed with BOTH of them–is a RAAAACIST! And we don’t want to be racists, do we?

MaiDee on June 26, 2012 at 11:38 PM

See, this part bothers me too; if those docs do exist – and I think they do – they won’t for very long.

They *will* be destroyed before provided to *anyone* – there is no way these people will choose 1) providing the docs as required by law and losing power if not going to prison, vs. 2) illegally destroying the evidence in an effort to avoid #1.

No way.

Midas on June 26, 2012 at 11:29 PM


Welcome to the information age …

One IT person with access to email backups is all it takes to bring the Obama house of cards DOWN.

The House can give a grant of immunity from prosecution to ANYONE they choose to and there is not jack ship the Obama administration can do about it.

The EP claim was NEVER intended to do anything but establish a different set of talking points for the SCOAMF administration while they try to find out what documents Issa has already received.

PolAgnostic on June 26, 2012 at 11:41 PM

Do they still have enough political capitol to cover Holder until after the election?

*OR*

Does Holder have the will to throw himself out there as final cover for the President?

BlaxPac on June 26, 2012 at 11:38 PM


No, Issa has the goods to put Holder’s stones in a vise at a minimum.

LOL! Never. Never Ever. Not.Going.To.Happen.

PolAgnostic on June 26, 2012 at 11:45 PM

You have to remember, the idea was for the entire program to ‘not exist’…that simply traces the guns back to US gun shops.

JIMV on June 26, 2012 at 11:11 PM

Then how did it become known to exist? Why would Obama let those serial numbers be traced right to his gun running program? Knowing that, it would actually seem more logical that there was an intention by the killers to get Obama in trouble. They dropped his expensive guns at the high profile crime scenes.

The alternative is that a list of the serial numbers was being kept off the record unbeknownst to the Obama people and the numbers were run against that list. It is still strange that those guns ended up dropped at the scene.

There are Republican-friendlies in the cartel. Bush had a lot of friends. Held parties for the various governors who obviously are connected to the cartels. No, I’m not saying Bush himself would direct such an action.

Buddahpundit on June 26, 2012 at 11:45 PM

Who is this collective “We” nonsense, CNN? HMMM?

Do NOT ever speak for me, you insidious duplicitous bastards. As an gun-owning American who loves this country, I ‘can handle’ the ENTIRE truth about what this scumbag Obama is up to!

SnarkySam on June 26, 2012 at 11:47 PM

LOL! Never. Never Ever. Not.Going.To.Happen.

PolAgnostic on June 26, 2012 at 11:45 PM


Was chuckling so much I forgot to make the key point:

Whose name will be forever the first one thought of when Watergate is mentioned?

Not John Mitchell – who went to jail
Not Bob Haldeman – who went to jail
Not John Ehrlichman – who went to jail

For all time, Watergate = Nixon

Does anyone believe the SCOAMF has not already had this explained to him?

PolAgnostic on June 26, 2012 at 11:50 PM

If I’m wrong correct me, but isn’t Issa seeking documents relating to the letter of Feb 4 2011 that was sent to Grassley denying any such program, which was subsequently pulled back 10 months later?Or is he more interested in the documents involved in the development of F&F?

xkaydet65 on June 26, 2012 at 11:34 PM

I heard today that there was a closed hearing with the committee and the head of the ATF after the Feb 4 letter. In this meeting an E-mail talking about warrants for the program was mentioned, an E-mail that included details about the program and an E-mail that went to a list of bigees in Justice…that is, a memo that proved that senior folk at Justice were aware of the program well before the 4 Feb letter that claimed the program did not exist was written. This memo is amongst the documents Holder is hiding.

JIMV on June 26, 2012 at 11:53 PM

The alternative is that a list of the serial numbers was being kept off the record unbeknownst to the Obama people and the numbers were run against that list. It is still strange that those guns ended up dropped at the scene.

There are Republican-friendlies in the cartel. Bush had a lot of friends. Held parties for the various governors who obviously are connected to the cartels. No, I’m not saying Bush himself would direct such an action.

Buddahpundit on June 26, 2012 at 11:45 PM


If you have never worked in the real world
(Obama et al) it is easy to believe the people who work for you will not cover their own a$$e$ regardless of what instructions their “bosses” have given them.

There was MASSIVE disagreement with how Fast & Furious was being executed by the ATF and ICE agents on the street.

I do not mean to be rude but you need to educate yourself if you are truly unaware of the details of how this clusterf*** began to come undone from the very beginning.

I would suggest starting with the Sipsey Street Irregulars website.

PolAgnostic on June 26, 2012 at 11:56 PM

No, Issa has the goods to put Holder’s stones in a vise at a minimum.

Of that, I have no doubt. Which makes the case about “Smart Power” from the Ivy League crowd.

LOL! Never. Never Ever. Not.Going.To.Happen.

PolAgnostic on June 26, 2012 at 11:45 PM

No doubting of that too much, OTOH, unless the President himself is brought to trial alongside him, Holder can be Pardoned.

Sure, the President will take some hits, but not as much as having his chief LEO removed from office.

BlaxPac on June 26, 2012 at 11:59 PM

I’m not ready to quit. Stories like this one reinforce to me that we need to keep repeating the difference between operation wide receiver which Bush ended in 2007 and f and f which began in 2009. They are totally different! What we who consider ourselves conservatives must do is to elect as many conservatives as possible eacn election cycle. Also more conservatives in the courts, academia, and journalism. I’m not ready to give up this fight. I can handle the truth and when it finally comes outI want anyone involved to serve time.

neyney on June 27, 2012 at 12:05 AM

He could be steppingIS STOMPING on Nixon’s toes, if BECAUSE he’s participated in this fiasco.

Rovin on June 26, 2012 at 11:17 PM
fifo

The EP PROVES that this goes all the way to the Oval Office.

Vntnrse on June 27, 2012 at 12:10 AM

By the way, who deliberately leaves guns at crime scenes– enough to connect the Fast and Furious guns with the deaths of two U.S. agents and 300 plus Mexicans? Why smuggle guns from the U.S. into Mexico, and then leave them lying around to be picked up by federales or U.S. investigators after use?

de rigueur on June 26, 2012 at 10:00 PM

I’ve been searching fast and furious to find a link to back this up, but haven’t yet found it. But, I remember reading in the early days of this controversy that what is written above is actually the “tracking mechanism” that was intended to be used by F&F. The cartel folks actually DO drop their weapons and leave them at the scene. To actually be CAUGHT w/ a weapon down there means automatic prison time, nor ifs ands or buts. So when the crap hits the fan and weapons have been fired, they drop them prior to the getaway in case they don’t get away.

climbnjump on June 27, 2012 at 12:16 AM

Good for Matheson.

Bitter Clinger on June 26, 2012 at 9:07 PM

I’m expecting around 20 Democrats to vote for contempt.

Of course, even if that happens, the MSM will still call the investigation a “partisan witch hunt” LOL

Bizarro No. 1 on June 27, 2012 at 12:21 AM

NRA Chief on Fast and Furious: The national media ought to replace their logos with an Obama bumper sticker

I really like the way that NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre simplifies the story of Fast and Furious as a case of the Obama administration trying to make reality match the narrative that 90% of guns responsible for cartel violence in Mexico originated from the United States, all so they can make a stronger case for their assault weapons ban. And when it comes to the media uncovering the truth behind this story, LaPierre says that the national media should take down their logos and replace them with Obama bumper stickers because they are so committed to his reelection that they could care less about this story:

http://www.therightscoop.com/nra-chief-on-on-fast-and-furious-the-national-media-ought-to-replace-their-logos-with-an-obama-bumper-sticker/

Green eyed Lady on June 27, 2012 at 12:21 AM

Issa has not connected those dots, (that this was Obama-approved), YET, one has to wonder how far the President plans to commit to protecting/covering up this “botched program”. He could be stepping on Nixon’s toes, if he’s participated in this fiasco.

Rovin on June 26, 2012 at 11:17 PM

“has not connected those dots”, or ‘”has not connected those dots” publicly?

Holder and 0bamessiah clearly do not have very high IQs, and have proven they are not good poker players. Issa, on the other hand, seems to know something about how the game should be played – remember his recent release of that wiretap info that got Holder all wee-weed up?!

I am very confident he knows what kind of a winning hand he possesses…

Bizarro No. 1 on June 27, 2012 at 12:35 AM

By the way, who deliberately leaves guns at crime scenes– enough to connect the Fast and Furious guns with the deaths of two U.S. agents and 300 plus Mexicans? Why smuggle guns from the U.S. into Mexico, and then leave them lying around to be picked up by federales or U.S. investigators after use?


“Leave the gun. Take the cannoli” is a standard move in Mexico. You can always get another gun, but taking it from the scene of a crime identifies you are a bad guy. I’ve heard its SOP for the Mexican cartels to drop guns at crime scenes.

Fred 2 on June 27, 2012 at 12:38 AM

If you have never worked in the real world (Obama et al) it is easy to believe the people who work for you will not cover their own a$$e$ regardless of what instructions their “bosses” have given them.

There was MASSIVE disagreement with how Fast & Furious was being executed by the ATF and ICE agents on the street.

PolAgnostic on June 26, 2012 at 11:56 PM

That only makes it more obvious that it wasn’t a ploy to link the guns to crimes for anti gun political points. They were his guns and any crimes committed with them make him an accessory. More than an accessory, a joint principal.

These guns were being remotely traced and Obama personally directed Terry and Zapata to go intercept. He was watching the guns move around and personally directing actions the same way he likes to play army general and direct military action in Afghanistan and Pakistan. The Mexican government was a partner in these joint US/Mexico operations and they were also working for the cartel, of course, so Obama sent some US agents to their deaths. That is the cover up. They dropped the guns at the scene to tweek Obama.

Buddahpundit on June 27, 2012 at 12:56 AM

And with that they lost their last three viewers.

Axion on June 26, 2012 at 9:52 PM

.
Thread-winner!

Rovin on June 26, 2012 at 10:01 PM

.
And my best laugh of the night.

Thank you, Axion. : )

listens2glenn on June 27, 2012 at 1:04 AM

I’m expecting around 20 Democrats to vote for contempt.

Bizarro No. 1

Dude….there’s not going to be a contempt vote. Sure, there’s one scheduled, but it will never happen. Boehner will make sure of that.

xblade on June 27, 2012 at 2:37 AM

“Leave the gun. Take the cannoli” is a standard move in Mexico. You can always get another gun, but taking it from the scene of a crime identifies you are a bad guy. I’ve heard its SOP for the Mexican cartels to drop guns at crime scenes.

Fred 2 on June 27, 2012 at 12:38 AM

I must not be smart enough to be a gangster, because that makes no sense to me. After a loud firefight I’m supposed to drop my weapon and walk calmly away so that I don’t look suspicious? I don’t think so. I think their mentality is that the only good witness is a dead witness, or better a yet a beheaded witness, and for that you need weapons, not extra evidence left behind.

pedestrian on June 27, 2012 at 3:21 AM

Some of the purchases were for more than ten guns. I know AZ has more reasonable purchase laws than Commifornia but still, why would someone think ten guns esp “assault weapons” would not raise red flags?

I am about as pro-gun as you can possibly get and that is simply ridiculous. I would look a little sideways at two at a time, over the counter.

98ZJUSMC on June 27, 2012 at 5:48 AM

I’m sure CNN’s poor ratings are completely unrelated to this attitude. People don’t watch the news to be informed, right?

talkingpoints on June 27, 2012 at 7:30 AM

On March 30, the 30th anniversary of the assassination attempt on President Ronald Reagan, Jim Brady, who sustained a debilitating head wound in the attack, and his wife, Sarah, came to Capitol Hill to push for a ban on the controversial “large magazines.

Jim Brady was shot with a .22 caliber revolver.

Banning “controversial large magazines” would certainly have spared him from his fate.

VelvetElvis on June 27, 2012 at 7:31 AM

it’s all too likely that Obama or Holder or someone in the food chain has done something shady but that they probably had a well-meaning, pro-American reason to do so, so maybe we should just kind of go easy, huh?

To put this in Clinton-esque terminology – “It’s just sex!

Now in Obama terminiology – “It’s just illegal gun running!”

Don L on June 27, 2012 at 7:38 AM

Jim Brady was shot with a .22 caliber revolver.

Banning “controversial large magazines” would certainly have spared him from his fate.

VelvetElvis on June 27, 2012 at 7:31 AM

As was RFK.

Don L on June 27, 2012 at 7:39 AM

“Leave the gun. Take the cannoli” is a standard move in Mexico. You can always get another gun, but taking it from the scene of a crime identifies you are a bad guy. I’ve heard its SOP for the Mexican cartels to drop guns at crime scenes.

Fred 2 on June 27, 2012 at 12:38 AM

I must not be smart enough to be a gangster, because that makes no sense to me. After a loud firefight I’m supposed to drop my weapon and walk calmly away so that I don’t look suspicious? I don’t think so. I think their mentality is that the only good witness is a dead witness, or better a yet a beheaded witness, and for that you need weapons, not extra evidence left behind.

pedestrian on June 27, 2012 at 3:21 AM

You’re half right (which is more than can be said for Holder and his capo de tutti capi, Obama).

The procedure is indeed to kill anybody and everybody in range to see what happened- while wearing a bandanna or balaclava to conceal the shooter’s face. (A trick born of Hollywood movies and watching MidEast terrorists on TV.)

Once ammunition is expended and the shooters are reasonably sure that anyone surviving in their kill radius wasn’t in a position to see anything (Line of Sight= you can be killed by a bullet coming the other way), they drop the weapons and run. Once around a corner, they yank off the face covering and drop it in a handy trash container.

Along with the gloves worn to avoid leaving fingerprints on the weapon.

And of course, the cartels (especially Los Zetas and Sinaloa) have a well-deserved reputation for killing not just anybody who might dare to talk to the authorities, but their entire families as well. (A trait they share with Islamist terrorists, whose tribal culture revolves around blood feuds.)

The result is that there are rarely survivors to identify cartel gunmen, and those who do are generally too terrified to even try.

The only way to really nail a gunman, in this sort of “operational environment”, is to catch him with a weapon in hand. Which makes the weapon an expendable asset, just like its ammunition.

And between foreign suppliers (notably in Asia, hackChinacough) and the help of the United States government (between F&F and giving arms to the Mexican government that promptly end up in cartel hands, due to rampant corruption in said Mexican government), getting another one when needed isn’t a problem.

Like most societies where law-abiding citizens are disarmed by their rulers, the criminals have no problem getting whatever weapons they want. And to be frank, the government prefers it that way; it acts as a continual justification for them disarming their populace.

Governments fear honest citizens, not criminals.

clear ether

eon

eon on June 27, 2012 at 8:08 AM

That a journalist in a democracy would even think– much less write– such a thing is a disgrace to the Constitution.

It should (but apparently, does not) go without saying that the people have a right to know when the laws under which they live are being abused by the people responsible for executing those laws. And, contrary to the article, this is not something that ought to be covered up in the interests of national security– the fact that an official is venal, corrupt or incompetent is not “national security information” that should be protected; indeed, the interests of national security require that such information should be made public, and the matter addressed as quickly as possible.

CNN should be deeply ashamed for publishing such nonsense.

morganfrost on June 27, 2012 at 8:25 AM

Ah just like the usual liberal defense of socialist/communist tyranny. “But they meant well.”

I have a colleague who once said of Josef Stalin, “Well he did some good things and some bad things.”

Teacher in Tejas on June 27, 2012 at 9:57 AM

xkaydet65 on June 26, 2012 at 11:34 PM
You are absolutely correct. Issa seeks emails from the time the letter was issued until it was withdrawn understand why it was withdrawn and who was involved.

They think we are too dumb to handle the truth because after all, a majority of voting Americans put this clown in office. Many will riot when their boy king is dethroned. Imagine what they would do if they actually had to face the truth about the liar-in-chief.

katablog.com on June 27, 2012 at 10:07 AM

Teacher in Tejas on June 27, 2012 at 9:57 AM

And Hitler actually believed the extinction of the Jews was helping the human race.

katablog.com on June 27, 2012 at 10:09 AM

I fully expect Holder & Co. to soon say something loudly – like:

We have provided the Documents.
What have you done with them?

TimBuk3 on June 27, 2012 at 10:09 AM

By the way, who deliberately leaves guns at crime scenes– enough to connect the Fast and Furious guns with the deaths of two U.S. agents and 300 plus Mexicans? Why smuggle guns from the U.S. into Mexico, and then leave them lying around to be picked up by federales or U.S. investigators after use?

Nothing about this operation smells right.

de rigueur on June 26, 2012 at 10:00 PM

I’ve been saying this from the beginning.

It’s almost as though the cartel shooters were ordered to dump the guns at the scene to be found by investigators.
But then, that would imply a certain amount of “co-operation” (at the very least) between the cartels and the DoJ.

Solaratov on June 27, 2012 at 10:10 AM

so a Hispanic al-Qaieda trained terrorist crosses the border in Arizona and the local authorities pick him up unknowingly and try to check on his status. Obama has instructed Homeland Security not to answer that call, despite the Supreme Court ruling 8-0 against him. What Obama has said that it is more important to him to get reelected than it is to protect my family. Sorry, but Jesus…

DrRich on June 27, 2012 at 10:12 AM

Then how did it become known to exist? Why would Obama let those serial numbers be traced right to his gun running program?

Because the BATF required the dealers to record the s/n’s of each weapon being sold. I wouldn’t take a rocket scientist to put together a list of s/n’s and buyers…duplicates would receive attention. That attention would then be attributed to the BATF authorizing mass qty purchases.

Buck_Nekkid on June 27, 2012 at 10:29 AM

For any of you mainstream media types reading this, there are two simple questions I would like answers for:

1. What did the president know?

2. When did he know it?

Thank you.

Of course I don’t expect our lamestream media – the presidential PR firms known as ABC / CBS/ NBC / CNN / PBS / NPR to show any interest in this story. They’re too busy promoting the president’s re-election.

Orson Buggeigh on June 27, 2012 at 10:32 AM

Orson Buggeigh on June 27, 2012 at 10:32 AM

I’ll answer for them

Know what?

ORconservative on June 27, 2012 at 10:49 AM

And CNN just reported their lowest ratings in 21 years?

Who’da thunk it?

ICanSeeNovFromMyHouse on June 27, 2012 at 10:54 AM

For any of you mainstream media types reading this, there are two simple questions I would like answers for:

1. What did the president know?

2. When did he know it?

Thank you.

Of course I don’t expect our lamestream media – the presidential PR firms known as ABC / CBS/ NBC / CNN / PBS / NPR to show any interest in this story. They’re too busy promoting the president’s re-election.

Orson Buggeigh on June 27, 2012 at 10:32 AM | Delete | Delete and Ban

Now the MSM asks:

1. Who cares what the President knows?

2. And if he knows, so what?!

WisRich on June 27, 2012 at 10:56 AM

CNN should be deeply ashamed for publishing such nonsense.

morganfrost on June 27, 2012 at 8:25 AM

CNN’s never shown shame for anything, except when they get caught.

They falsely accused the US of dropping nerve gas on civilians in Laos, covered up Saddam Hussein’s atrocities against his own citizens for a decade, had their CEO resign in disgrace after he falsely accused US soldiers of “murdering” Iraqi journalists, and happily showed videos supplied by the US’s enemies showing the sniper’s eyes views of their American targets, just before they pulled their triggers.

They’re a Joke.

Del Dolemonte on June 27, 2012 at 11:02 AM

There are Republican-friendlies in the cartel. Bush had a lot of friends. Held parties for the various governors who obviously are connected to the cartels. No, I’m not saying Bush himself would direct such an action.

Buddahpundit on June 26, 2012 at 11:45 PM

Well, why don’t you name the Republican-friendlies in the cartel?
And, while you’re at it,
name the various governors who “obviously” (lol) are connected to the cartels.

And, if you can’t name names, then we’ll reluctantly have to conclude that you’re just another leftist, lying sack of sh!t.

You people reek of desperation!

Solaratov on June 27, 2012 at 11:22 AM

Sherlock Holmes: “When you have eliminated all other possible explanations, whatever remains no matter how impossible, must be the answer.”

So the question is, why won’t Holder help us eliminate those impossible answers?

drunyan8315 on June 27, 2012 at 11:25 AM

Who knows how the wheels of Federal justice work but I’m at a loss as to how tracing some guns up the cartel ladder was going to have any impact at all on the cartel or their leadership. Don’t we and the Mexicans know that the cartels are already illegally running drugs into the US? Don’t we know who their leaders are? Apparently we don’t have any evidence on the drug side that we could link to the cartels or their leader and need to depend on guns being walked across the border to do this? This operation sounds more and more like an exercise to gin up gun control fever and less like an operation to try and pin something on cartel heads.

JohnnyL on June 27, 2012 at 11:31 AM

No, I’m not saying Bush himself would direct such an action.

Buddahpundit on June 26, 2012 at 11:45 PM

That’s good, because the action that Bush did direct – Wide Receiver – was conducted with the knowledge and co-operation of the Mexican government; and NO guns were lost to the cartels and NO people were killed.

Under obama’s direction, however, Fast&Furious delivered over 2500 guns to the drug cartels and directly caused the deaths of over 300 Mexican citizens and at least two American law enforcement officers.
(And, yeah, I’m saying that obama himself would conceive and direct such an action.)

Solaratov on June 27, 2012 at 11:31 AM

Then how did it become known to exist? Why would Obama let those serial numbers be traced right to his gun running program?

Buddahpundit on June 26, 2012 at 11:45 PM

Whistle blowers ratted the program out to Congress which is how this came to light. Justice certainly did not admit the program existed when asked.

JIMV on June 27, 2012 at 11:39 AM

The one point that I haven’t heard explained is that there were one (or two) attempts at doing some variations of “gun walking” prior to “Fast & Furious.” I’ve heard that as soon as DC found out about guns “walking” in “Wide Receiver” that they shut it down. My point is, if the Bush era attempts were so bad (and the probably were), why did the super-geniuses in the Obama Administration decide to try an even worse variation on an unpleasant theme ?

“Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.” ― Albert Einstein

This claim that “Bush did it too” merely shows that the Obama Administration is at least equally stupid and probably more so for following a stupid program with an even stupider, bigger program.

J_Crater on June 27, 2012 at 11:50 AM

So if Obama wanted to gin up some gun crime numbers in Mexico with US guns, how could he handle the inevitable innocent deaths?

1. He didn’t care, or
2. He is monumentally stupid, or
3. He had some help that would plant the guns at the scene of real crimes already committed.

3 is my guess and it accounts for the objection that criminals do not typically leave weapons at the scene of their crimes.
So who has strong presence in Mexico and is a friend of liberal causes?
Carlos Slim? George Soros?
Of course real criminals are not going to pass up a chance to gun someone down they want done in, and use somebody else’s gun as a decoy. That’s where the “plan” went wrong. That’s why Holder was going to have a big news event and then backed away… guns started not just “showing up”, they were used as the murder weapon!

drunyan8315 on June 27, 2012 at 12:00 PM

CNN is just a Obama sychophant that propagandizes what they are directed to spew to the public. I guess that is why their nightly viewers would have a hard time filling a football stadium like Vanderbilt’s which holds approximately 40,000. You have seen more that their nightly viewers at an average flea market.

volsense on June 27, 2012 at 12:02 PM

I would suggest starting with the Sipsey Street Irregulars website.

PolAgnostic on June 26, 2012 at 11:56 PM

Great stuff, thanks!

roy_batty on June 27, 2012 at 12:19 PM

Then how did it become known to exist?

Buddahpundit on June 26, 2012 at 11:45 PM

Just a late followup to this question… The gunshops. You see, the gunshops have to phone in the firearms and buyer info for background checks. When they raised concerns over positive checks for obvious criminals, the ATF informed them to comply (or else) since they were part of a sting. Several shops expressed additional concern, coupled with a few concerned ATF agents, and… this is where we are today.

dominigan on June 27, 2012 at 1:10 PM

Dude….there’s not going to be a contempt vote. Sure, there’s one scheduled, but it will never happen. Boehner will make sure of that.

xblade on June 27, 2012 at 2:37 AM

No vote? Boehner is working behind the scenes with the Dems to undermine Repubs like Issa, who want some justice for the Terrys as well as the rest of us who still believe that having a king is a bad idea?

How much are you willing to bet that you’re right? :)

Bizarro No. 1 on June 27, 2012 at 1:41 PM

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