Open thread: Sunday morning talking heads

posted at 8:01 am on June 24, 2012 by Allahpundit

It took months of document demands plus a contempt charge for the Attorney General to put Fast & Furious front and center on the Sunday shows, but better late than never. Darrell Issa gets to make his case this morning on NBC, ABC, and Fox News; Eric Holder’s rebuttal will be presented by … nobody, apparently. Unless I’m overlooking someone, none of the Democrats on those three shows is involved in the F&F investigation. Interesting that the White House hasn’t tapped anyone to take Issa on.

Today’s other hot topic is immigration, with Marco Rubio in the spotlight on “Meet the Press” to talk DREAM and what really happened with that VP kerfuffle last week. As a counterpoint, CNN will have on Democrat Luis Gutierrez, whom you might remember for having once said, “I have only one loyalty and that’s to the immigrant community.” I wonder what he thinks of Obama’s new DREAM power grab. The full line-up via WaPo:

NBC’s Meet the Press: Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL); Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA); Former Gov. Bill Richardson (D-NM); Jonathan Martin, Politico; Andrea Mitchell, NBC

CBS’ Face the Nation: Gov. Rick Perry (R-TX); Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, Los Angeles; former Gov. Tim Pawlenty (R-MN); Stephanie Cutter, Obama’s Deputy Campaign Manager; Eric Fehrnstrom, Senior Adviser to Romney Campaign; Joe Klein, TIME; Dan Balz, Washington Post; Norah O’Donnell, CBS News; John Dickerson, CBS News

ABC’s This Week: Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA); Rep. Xavier Becerra (D-CA); George Will, ABC News; Major Garrett, National Journal; Peggy Noonan, The Wall Street Journal; Hilary Rosen, Democratic strategist

Fox News Sunday: Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA); T. Boone Pickens, BP Capital; Brit Hume, Fox News; Kirsten Powers, The Daily Beast and Fox News; Nicole Wallace, former senior adviser to the McCain campaign; Jeff Zeleny, New York Times

CNN’s State of the Union with Candy Crowley: Ed Gillespie, Romney senior adviser; former Commerce Secretary Carlos Guiterrez; Rep. Luis Guiterrez (D-IL); Susan Page, USA Today; Peter Baker, New York Times


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canopfor on June 24, 2012 at 10:11 AM

Could you just imagine the outrage if the SS had confiscated all the siverware at one of his Hollywood fundraisers?

Rovin on June 24, 2012 at 10:22 AM

Rovin:Ya,I guess Obama doesn’t trust Latinos.Lol,Hollywood
SilverWare Hit Team!:)

canopfor on June 24, 2012 at 10:26 AM

morning all … needs more coffee … fascinating stuff canopfor

gh on June 24, 2012 at 10:27 AM

“Secure the border” is nothing more than a red herring. It’s code for “I oppose any sort of immigration reform, even that which is supported by 90% of the country, but I don’t want to sound a total nutty”.

What exactly the “secure the border” people have in mind? A 2000 miles wall? A DMZ, Korean border style? It’s not possible or cost-effective to truly “secure the border”. And what’s the rational? The large majority of illegal immigrants never crossed the border illegally. If the illegal immigration problem was created by those, there would be no problem at all because there would be so few nobody would notice or care.

Or by “secure the border” you mean we should stop any foreigners from visiting and staying in America with temporary visas? Become the new North Korea? At least that would make some sense.

joana on June 24, 2012 at 10:30 AM

Gregory being an a$$ towards issa

Issa stopped the meme of this started under W

cmsinaz on June 24, 2012 at 10:31 AM

this is bull****. how these dems say F&F is no big deal is despicable.

Donald Draper on June 24, 2012 at 10:31 AM

Jake Tapper ‏@jaketapper

Issa will send letter to POTUS telling him that his executive privilege claims are ‘simply wrong’: http://abcn.ws/MtdTya

Jun 24, 2012 10:05am
Darrell Issa: President’s Executive Privilege Claims ‘Simply Wrong’

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/06/darrell-issa-presidents-executive-privilege-claims-simply-wrong/
========================================================

Jake Tapper ‏@jaketapper
Fun roundtable today on @ThisWeekABC http://twitpic.com/a01br7

http://twitpic.com/a01br7
==========================

https://twitter.com/jaketapper

canopfor on June 24, 2012 at 10:33 AM

Issa vs. 3 dems. Fairness.

Donald Draper on June 24, 2012 at 10:34 AM

this is bull****. how these dems say F&F is no big deal is despicable.

Donald Draper on June 24, 2012 at 10:31 AM

I dare any of these Dems or their sycophants in the media to look directly at the camera, address the Terry family, and say this is not a big deal.

Doughboy on June 24, 2012 at 10:34 AM

Interesting how a narcissist control freak President and his entire administration have railed about the lack of reasonable gun control and yet the chief wouldn’t even have known about F&F, odd.

Look at all the Obama clones the President has thrown under the bus but Holder gets exec. privilege?

Speakup on June 24, 2012 at 10:35 AM

joana on June 24, 2012 at 10:30 AM

It means fix the problem of having hundreds of thousands of people here who are unknown so that whatever the “fair” outcome of existing lawbreakers isn’t multiplied the very next day. It may sound like a cop out to you but unless you actually fix the inflow problem we are watching “Groundhogs Day” over and over and over.

Cindy Munford on June 24, 2012 at 10:36 AM

So 2 million of the 4 million jobs saved were for Hispanics according to Richardson

Who knew?

cmsinaz on June 24, 2012 at 10:37 AM

Issa just held up a totally black sheet of paper.

Redaction to the uuumph degree.

wolly4321 on June 24, 2012 at 10:08 AM

redactio ad absurdum!

Rational Thought on June 24, 2012 at 10:37 AM

Gregory being an a$$ towards issa

Issa stopped the meme of this started under W

cmsinaz on June 24, 2012 at 10:31 AM

Just turned MTP OFF.
Can you believe it? You have Darryl Issa in one corner and David Gregory, Bill Richardson, Politico Hack, and Andrea Mitchell saying JOBS WILL SUFFER because of this Fast and Furious inquiry. New talking point. These people are crazier than Pelosi.

Marcus on June 24, 2012 at 10:38 AM

Mohamed Morsi declared winner of the Egyptian presidential election – via @CNN broadcast

Submitted 8 mins ago by editor

canopfor on June 24, 2012 at 10:40 AM

These people (the left) are just slinging sh** to see what sticks, it is all they’ve got.

ORconservative on June 24, 2012 at 10:40 AM

@AlArabiya_Eng tweeted:
AlArabiya_Eng

Mohammed #Morsi has been declared winner of #Egypt presidential election with 13,230,131 votes #EgyPresElex

Submitted 9 mins ago from twitter.com by editor

canopfor on June 24, 2012 at 10:41 AM

Yepper Marcus

Now they want to talk about jobs

WH talking points spewed

cmsinaz on June 24, 2012 at 10:44 AM

Thanks Canopfor

cmsinaz on June 24, 2012 at 10:45 AM

Here’s my problem with Issa-He goes on MTP.

Mr. Arrogant on June 24, 2012 at 10:46 AM

ABC roundtable: “This Fast and Furious takes the focus off jobs.”

Jeesh.

Marcus on June 24, 2012 at 10:46 AM

Imagine if El Paso was being shelled from across the Rio Grande?

http://www.timesofisrael.com/gaza-terrorists-fire-barrage-of-rockets-at-sderot/

150x in the last 6 days.

Oh, wait would Holder file suit against Texas to keep them from responding?

PappyD61 on June 24, 2012 at 10:48 AM

Marcus it appears Valerie did a mass email on the WH talking points

cmsinaz on June 24, 2012 at 10:48 AM

Issa just slammed Ø as “unprepared on day one” right in front of Andrea Mitchell who said nothing. Good on ya, Darrell!

ExpressoBold on June 24, 2012 at 10:48 AM

Dunno if i can sit through ten more minutes of MTP…

OmahaConservative on June 24, 2012 at 10:49 AM

These people (the left) are just slinging sh** to see what sticks, it is all they’ve got.

ORconservative on June 24, 2012 at 10:40 AM

ORconservative:Dem talk’n points,

“Witch Hunt”….”Fishing Expedition”!

Noonan talk’n point,

“StoneWalling”!

canopfor on June 24, 2012 at 10:49 AM

I dare any of these Dems or their sycophants in the media to look directly at the camera, address the Terry family, and say this is not a big deal.
Doughboy on June 24, 2012 at 10:34 AM

No sensible person is saying this isn’t a big deal. They are only objecting to Issa’s politicization of this unfortunate incident.

Uppereastside on June 24, 2012 at 10:49 AM

canopfor on June 24, 2012 at 10:41 AM

Is that the Muslim Brotherhood or the Mubarak acolyte?

Cindy Munford on June 24, 2012 at 10:50 AM

Al Jazeera English: Live Stream

http://www.aljazeera.com/watch_now/

canopfor on June 24, 2012 at 10:51 AM

Good thing that Muslim Brotherhood group is so secular and not political at all.

Good news for Israel.

I guess they can expect more of this in the days ahead, you gotta love your future if you’re in the Pharoahs’ Army in Egypt right now.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/gaza-terrorists-fire-barrage-of-rockets-at-sderot/

PappyD61 on June 24, 2012 at 10:52 AM

Thanks Canopfor

cmsinaz on June 24, 2012 at 10:45 AM

cmsinaz:–:)

canopfor on June 24, 2012 at 10:52 AM

It means fix the problem of having hundreds of thousands of people here who are unknown so that whatever the “fair” outcome of existing lawbreakers isn’t multiplied the very next day. It may sound like a cop out to you but unless you actually fix the inflow problem we are watching “Groundhogs Day” over and over and over.

Cindy Munford on June 24, 2012 at 10:36 AM

As I and others haver explained multiple times, “securing the border” won’t stop or meaningfully affect the inflow of illegals because very few of them actually cross the border illegally. Besides being basically impossible to “secure the border” totally – unless you’re crazy enough to want to have a 2,000 miles great wall or a Mount Sinai type of border. And even then, they’d just come by sea.

So, what’s exactly the point of keeping repeating “secure the border”?

joana on June 24, 2012 at 10:52 AM

Gregory being an a$$ towards issa

Issa stopped the meme of this started under W

cmsinaz on June 24, 2012 at 10:31 AM

Just turned MTP OFF.
Can you believe it? You have Darryl Issa in one corner and David Gregory, Bill Richardson, Politico Hack, and Andrea Mitchell saying JOBS WILL SUFFER because of this Fast and Furious inquiry. New talking point. These people are crazier than Pelosi.

Marcus on June 24, 2012 at 10:38 AM

Exactly,turns out only 17% of the supposed 90% of guns that kill Mexicans and others in Mexico come from the US.So where do they come from?
Here’s a good link telling where guns in Mexico used by the druggies actually come from.

http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20110209-mexicos-gun-supply-and-90-percent-myth

The above suggests that the real heavy artillery comes in with the drugs from south and Central America.Original suppliers South American gun mfg.s, China,Korea,US by way of third countries.
What really makes sense to me is that the Mexican drug cartel simply gets their guns from the same criminals that supply them with drugs,no brainer here.

rodguy911 on June 24, 2012 at 10:53 AM

canopfor on June 24, 2012 at 10:33 AM
…you’ve been on fire this morning…thanks for the work!

KOOLAID2 on June 24, 2012 at 10:54 AM

http://www.timesofisrael.com/gaza-terrorists-fire-barrage-of-rockets-at-sderot/

PappyD61 on June 24, 2012 at 10:52 AM

PappyD61:Yup,the MB Jihady Goons,ordered the rocket strike on
Israel,I hope LeftTards are happy now!:)

canopfor on June 24, 2012 at 10:54 AM

Dear Joana,

You are trully stooopid. I’m LIVING your “red herring”. Yea, I’d like to see a DMZ. Absolutely. Only this one keeps people out, not in. You ever hear about a great wall in china? They didn’t even have the benefit of heavy equipment.

Again, I have to point out you are an idiot. Clueless.

They keep the dead bodies of crossers in refrigerated truckS, you twit. The desert is littered with skulls. Knowing nothing is one thing, sum=zero, but you have ventured into negative territory..

Whens the last time YOU visited the BORDER.

wolly4321 on June 24, 2012 at 10:55 AM

canopfor on June 24, 2012 at 10:33 AM
…you’ve been on fire this morning…thanks for the work!

KOOLAID2 on June 24, 2012 at 10:54 AM

KOOLAID2:Anytime,its going to be an interesting day,I don’t
think the Eyptian military are going to step down!:)

canopfor on June 24, 2012 at 10:56 AM

Dear Joana,

You are trully stooopid. I’m LIVING your “red herring”. Yea, I’d like to see a DMZ. Absolutely. Only this one keeps people out, not in. You ever hear about a great wall in china? They didn’t even have the benefit of heavy equipment.
wolly4321 on June 24, 2012 at 10:55 AM

Yeah, that will never happen, so you might want to start considering a move to another part of the country.

And most of those border blood crimes are drug related, not immigration related.

joana on June 24, 2012 at 10:59 AM

They aren’t coming by sea in Arizona you freaking moron.

wolly4321 on June 24, 2012 at 10:59 AM

Whens the last time YOU visited the BORDER.

wolly4321 on June 24, 2012 at 10:55 AM

wolly4321:I can see the US Border from my house,haha!!

canopfor on June 24, 2012 at 11:02 AM

Good on Issa on MTP; he was combative all the way to the last second. He denied that Ø was losing on the campaign money race because of his extensive war chest banked in the previous election. He says Ø is ahead in campaign money by a large margin.

ExpressoBold on June 24, 2012 at 11:03 AM

Read Andrew McCarthy’s piece on Fast & Furious and OCDETF at National Review Online. Boy oh boy, this is going to ruin Obama and Holder’s summer! Too bad….

jb34461 on June 24, 2012 at 11:06 AM

Haha I love it.
There is no border problem, just move to another state.

ORconservative on June 24, 2012 at 11:06 AM

I don’t know if you saw my question up-thread, but how does Rep. Tancredo get away with publishing that information, you would think that the administration or at least DOJ would be going after him.

Cindy Munford on June 24, 2012 at 9:25 AM

Tancredo hasn’t been in Congress since early 2009. He ran in the 2008 Republican presidential primary and then ran as an independent for Colorado governor in 2010 when the Republican candidate totally self-destructed.

steebo77 on June 24, 2012 at 11:06 AM

Nicole Wallace

Nobody ever spells poor Nicolle’s name correctly. The missing “L” stands for “loser,” obviously.

steebo77 on June 24, 2012 at 11:08 AM

steebo77 on June 24, 2012 at 11:06 AM

Okay, that makes sense, he’s easy to ignore out of office. I should have remembered. Old. Still his accusations are pretty inflammatory.

Cindy Munford on June 24, 2012 at 11:09 AM

Ever hear of a “rape tree”, Joana? There’s plenty of them down here. It’s sad to think you don’t seem to find that a problem.

They found a woman with child. Abandoned by their “mule”. They survived by drinking their own urine. You have no clue what happens down here.

Actually, you have no clue about anything..

Go ahead. google rape tree.

wolly4321 on June 24, 2012 at 11:10 AM

They aren’t coming by sea in Arizona you freaking moron.

wolly4321 on June 24, 2012 at 10:59 AM

The constant name-calling makes you sound sort of creepy.

So, you’re okay with illegal immigration as long as it doesn’t happen through your state?

How ignorant one needs to be to believe it’s possible to actually prevent people from entering the country illegally – not saying it’s the case with anyone here?

The Berlin Wall had less than 100 miles in length, highly-militarized, and people would still cross it all the time. European countries are protected by thousands of miles of deep sea and yet illegal immigrants arrive on their shores clandestinely all the time. Heck, people have escaped from high-security concentration camps. And we’re talking about building a fence and militarising a 2,000 miles terrestrial border as if that would have an even noticeable effect? When most illegal immigrants don’t even cross the border illegally? Or are people crazy enough to want to turn the the US into North Korea – a futile endeavour, considering the length and diversity of the US borders?

It’s time to stop being over-emotional know-nothings living in a fantasy world and start acting as grown ups. There are steps that can be given to curb the inflow of illegal immigrants but trying to turn the US into North Korea isn’t one of them.

joana on June 24, 2012 at 11:12 AM

joana on June 24, 2012 at 10:59 AM

People being here illegally is a crime. I guess you think over spending is a red herring also. We cannot solve our biggest problems until the root causes are eradicated.

Cindy Munford on June 24, 2012 at 11:12 AM

Could you just imagine the outrage if the SS had confiscated all the siverware at one of his Hollywood fundraisers?

Rovin on June 24, 2012 at 10:22 AM

Talk about ethnic stereotyping. ‘Bama takes away their knives and forks ’cause he don’t want no Latinos “forking” him.

Perhaps also, since they have no knives and forks, he is better able to “spoonfeed” them tripe.

Dr. Charles G. Waugh on June 24, 2012 at 11:13 AM

As I and others haver explained multiple times, “securing the border” won’t stop or meaningfully affect the inflow of illegals because very few of them actually cross the border illegally. Besides being basically impossible to “secure the border” totally – unless you’re crazy enough to want to have a 2,000 miles great wall or a Mount Sinai type of border. And even then, they’d just come by sea.

So, what’s exactly the point of keeping repeating “secure the border”?

joana on June 24, 2012 at 10:52 AM

Wrong.

The Pew Hispanic Center estimates that 6–7 million unauthorized migrants came to the United States via illegal entry, accounting for probably a little over half of the total population. There are an estimated half million illegal entries into the United States each year. [...]According to Pew, between 4 and 5.5 million unauthorized migrants entered the United States with a legal visa, accounting for between 33–50% of the total population.

steebo77 on June 24, 2012 at 11:14 AM

People being here illegally is a crime. I guess you think over spending is a red herring also. We cannot solve our biggest problems until the root causes are eradicated.

Cindy Munford on June 24, 2012 at 11:12 AM

Look who had to resort to passive-aggressive strawman arguments. Who would have guessed? Yeah, I must think spending is a red herring too.

What’s next? Accusing me of being a communist

This is quite simple – even though I’m not surprised you’re still able to understand it: most of the people who are here illegally didn’t cross the border illegally. Can you understand this? So “secure the border” is basically a bunch of nothing: there’s no way of actually doing it and even if you were somehow successful, it still wouldn’t solve the problem. So, “secure the border” doesn’t eradicate any root causes at all. Can you understand this?

joana on June 24, 2012 at 11:17 AM

I’d move, Joana. To a nice safe blue State. Maybe Chicago?

But dear, what would I do with all these guns? Afterall, BATF lets you buy them in bulk here, huh?

You really are a piece of work.

wolly4321 on June 24, 2012 at 11:18 AM

No sensible person is saying this isn’t a big deal. They are only objecting to Issa’s politicization of this unfortunate incident.

Uppereastside on June 24, 2012 at 10:49 AM

Oh BS! This was political from the begining. This was hatched by polticians to change gun policy in the US. If there was someone being punished besides the whistle blowers this investigation wouldn’t even be taking place. What has the IG found? Who is the IG holding responsible for the 300+ deaths with more on the way because they haven’t found all the guns yet? Why didn’t F&F use GPS electronic tracking devices if they were simply continuing a version of Wide Receiver? Why didn’t they use controlled delivery? Why did they lie about when they knew or that they knew at all? Because of the compliant media and people like you with flexible morality it has taken this long for F&F even to be acknowledged. No way are we just letting this go and calling it “unfortunate.” How can you defend such an indefensible program?

magicbeans on June 24, 2012 at 11:19 AM

This is quite simple – even though I’m not surprised you’re still able to understand it: most of the people who are here illegally didn’t cross the border illegally.

joana on June 24, 2012 at 11:17 AM

Yes they did. Upwards of 50% of illegal immigrants came over land borders into the country. Less than 50% overstayed visas.

steebo77 on June 24, 2012 at 11:19 AM

Look who had to resort to passive-aggressive strawman arguments. Who would have guessed? Yeah, I must think spending is a red herring too.

joana on June 24, 2012 at 11:17 AM

Cindy obviously wasn’t referring to overspending in general, but to that portion of the overspending which is directly related to the presence of illegal immigrants in our society. Sheesh.

steebo77 on June 24, 2012 at 11:20 AM

steebo77 on June 24, 2012 at 11:14 AM

I don’t have any trust in the Pew numbers. It’s irrelevant for the point being argued any way: even if you could somehow stop every unauthorized crossing of the terrestrial border with Mexico – something impossible to start with – you’d still need to deal with millions and millions of illegal immigrants. No “root causes” would be “eradicated”.

joana on June 24, 2012 at 11:20 AM

Cindy obviously wasn’t referring to overspending in general, but to that portion of the overspending which is directly related to the presence of illegal immigrants in our society. Sheesh.

steebo77 on June 24, 2012 at 11:20 AM

Haha, of course she was.

joana on June 24, 2012 at 11:22 AM

joana on June 24, 2012 at 11:17 AM

If they didn’t cross the border illegally how did the illegals get here?

magicbeans on June 24, 2012 at 11:22 AM

Oops!

Politico reporter suspended for saying Mitt Romney

‘Is more comfortable around white people’ live on MSNBC

PUBLISHED: 19:31 GMT, 22 June 2012
UPDATED: 21:45 GMT, 22 June 2012
*********************************

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2163348/Politico-reporter-Joe-Williams-suspended-saying-Mitt-Romney-Is-comfortable-white-people.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

canopfor on June 24, 2012 at 11:22 AM

joana on June 24, 2012 at 11:17 AM

First, I didn’t and don’t call names, interesting tactic. What is the old saying, ignorance of the law is no excuse. If you know that you are breaking the law stop it. Go back to where you are legal. As for securing the border, you say impossible, I say giving it a try would be a nice start and big deterrent. Unfortunately, illegals are good business for both parties, so the status quo will continue. Can you understand this?

Cindy Munford on June 24, 2012 at 11:23 AM

I don’t have any trust in the Pew numbers. It’s irrelevant for the point being argued any way: even if you could somehow stop every unauthorized crossing of the terrestrial border with Mexico – something impossible to start with – you’d still need to deal with millions and millions of illegal immigrants. No “root causes” would be “eradicated”.

joana on June 24, 2012 at 11:20 AM

My point is quit spouting as fact something which you do not know to actually be true.

And the root causes will never be totally dealt with, but there are certain steps that can be taken to greatly reduce the number of violations taking place. What are your proposed solutions, if any?

steebo77 on June 24, 2012 at 11:24 AM

So “secure the border” is basically a bunch of nothing: there’s no way of actually doing it and even if you were somehow successful, it still wouldn’t solve the problem.
joana on June 24, 2012 at 11:17 AM

If your basement is flooding, isn’t the first step to stop the leak?

1. SECURE THE BORDER

2. Crack down on employers who hire illegals.

3. Deport all illegals who commit other crimes.

Attrition will take care of the rest.

stefanite on June 24, 2012 at 11:24 AM

Yes, I’m probably “creepy” to you. I’m a Conservative, and yes I’m pretty convinced you’re a commie troll. A deceptive one that acts like they are on our side selectively.

Sound about right to anyone else?

wolly4321 on June 24, 2012 at 11:26 AM

If they didn’t cross the border illegally how did the illegals get here?

magicbeans on June 24, 2012 at 11:22 AM

50% + of them did cross the borders illegally. Another 35% to 40% or so came with legal visas (tourist, student, etc.), whether over land borders or arriving by plane.

steebo77 on June 24, 2012 at 11:26 AM

Joana, we have to have a way to account for who is here and who is coming in.
What do you suggest?
Besides your suggestion of moving; that one still slays me with the intelligence behind it.

ORconservative on June 24, 2012 at 11:26 AM

steebo77 on June 24, 2012 at 11:20 AM

No actually I wasn’t, sorry to be unclear. The administration and the Left always want to talk about revenue and taxes, I believe they need to learn to live within their means and won’t support any tax hikes until they do. I think that it is the standard operating procedure of being fiscally successful and Congress should give it a try.

Cindy Munford on June 24, 2012 at 11:27 AM

Yes, I’m probably “creepy” to you. I’m a Conservative, and yes I’m pretty convinced you’re a commie troll. A deceptive one that acts like they are on our side selectively.

Sound about right to anyone else?

wolly4321 on June 24, 2012 at 11:26 AM

Nah. joana’s just selective about her conservatism.

steebo77 on June 24, 2012 at 11:27 AM

First, I didn’t and don’t call names, interesting tactic. What is the old saying, ignorance of the law is no excuse. If you know that you are breaking the law stop it. Go back to where you are legal.

Cindy Munford on June 24, 2012 at 11:23 AM

Call names? Dear, a strawman argument has nothing to do with name-calling. You’re confused.

How is that related to the border?

Again, can you explain how exactly “securing the border”, if that was actually possible, would “eradicate” the “root problems” when millions of illegals never cross the border illegally (and, considering your serious interpretation problems, they’re still obviously committing an illegality by overstaying their visas)? A concise and succinct explanation would be appreciated.

joana on June 24, 2012 at 11:28 AM

Joana, we have to have a way to account for who is here and who is coming in.
What do you suggest?
Besides your suggestion of moving; that one still slays me with the intelligence behind it.

ORconservative on June 24, 2012 at 11:26 AM

The suggestion of moving was to the crazy that is okay with illegal immigration as long as they don’t go through Arizona. Seems like an obvious life choice to me.

What do I suggest for exactly what? The border security issue? I suggest we first need to stop fooling ourselves with fantasy, childlike scenarios, like having a Korean style of border or a Berlin Wall in the Mexico. Not only that’s not feasible or cost effective, it still wouldn’t work. There are ways of improving border security, but by insisting on completely crazy scenarios, these fanatical know-nothings are just making more difficult to make positive steps.

joana on June 24, 2012 at 11:32 AM

Nearly half of all the unauthorized migrants now living in the United States entered the country legally through a port of entry such as an airport or a border crossing point where they were subject to inspection by immigration officials, according to new estimates from the Pew Hispanic Center.

As much as 45% of the total unauthorized migrant population entered the country with visas that allowed them to visit or reside in the U.S. for a limited amount of time. Known as “overstayers,” these migrants became part of the unauthorized population when they remained in the country after their visas had expired.

Another smaller share of the unauthorized migrant population entered the country legally from Mexico using a Border Crossing Card, a document that allows short visits limited to the border region, and then violated the terms of admission.

The rest of the unauthorized migrant population, somewhat more than half, entered the country illegally. Some evaded customs and immigration inspectors at ports of entry by hiding in vehicles such as cargo trucks. Others trekked through the Arizona desert, waded across the Rio Grande or otherwise eluded the U.S. Border Patrol which has jurisdiction over all the land areas away from the ports of entry on the borders with Mexico and Canada.

Source: http://pewhispanic.org/files/factsheets/19.pdf

steebo77 on June 24, 2012 at 11:32 AM

Cindy obviously wasn’t referring to overspending in general, but to that portion of the overspending which is directly related to the presence of illegal immigrants in our society. Sheesh.

steebo77 on June 24, 2012 at 11:20 AM

No actually I wasn’t, sorry to be unclear.

Cindy Munford on June 24, 2012 at 11:27 AM

I told you so.

joana on June 24, 2012 at 11:33 AM

joana on June 24, 2012 at 11:28 AM

Are you saying that people who overstay their visas should just get to stay? When do American citizens get to pick the laws that they want to ignore? And get rewarded for it!

Cindy Munford on June 24, 2012 at 11:33 AM

I told you so.

joana on June 24, 2012 at 11:33 AM

So you are okay with being in massive debt and spending money we don’t have also?

Cindy Munford on June 24, 2012 at 11:34 AM

joana, who has no solutions to the illegal immigration and border security questions, loves to shoot down those proposed by others, calling them fantasy, childlike scenarios” while spouting “facts” that just aren’t so.

I repeat: joana, what solutions, if any, do you propose?

steebo77 on June 24, 2012 at 11:35 AM

If your basement is flooding, isn’t the first step to stop the leak?

stefanite on June 24, 2012 at 11:24 AM

If you want to stop the leak, “securing the border” (even if that was actually possible), wont’ do it.

Especially if by securing the border you only mean the Mexican one.

There are millions of illegal immigrants here who never crossed the Mexican border illegally. How exactly do you stop the leak if those millions of people keep coming in?

You must have a very weird notion of “stopping the leak”.

joana on June 24, 2012 at 11:36 AM

No sensible person is saying this isn’t a big deal. They are only objecting to Issa’s politicization of this unfortunate incident.
Uppereastside on June 24, 2012 at 10:49 AM

I have no idea, but I do know that you guys come up with really cool names for your fake scandals.
crr6 on July 10, 2011 at 1:24 PM

RINO in Name Only on June 24, 2012 at 11:38 AM

Are you saying that people who overstay their visas should just get to stay?
Cindy Munford on June 24, 2012 at 11:33 AM

Nope. In fact, I made the point of writing -(and, considering your serious interpretation problems, they’re still obviously committing an illegality by overstaying their visas) – because I knew you’d try to pull that trick and make another strawman. You’re too predictable, darling.

Now, can you answer this instead of trying to make that kind of desperate arguments:

Again, can you explain how exactly “securing the border”, if that was actually possible, would “eradicate” the “root problems” when millions of illegals never cross the border illegally ?

joana on June 24, 2012 at 11:38 AM

Yes, I’m probably “creepy” to you. I’m a Conservative, and yes I’m pretty convinced you’re a commie troll. A deceptive one that acts like they are on our side selectively.

Sound about right to anyone else?

wolly4321 on June 24, 2012 at 11:26 AM

Who is this Joana, and why is she such an idiot? Rhetorical.

msupertas on June 24, 2012 at 11:38 AM

In five years the country will be accused of treating illegals as slaves and reparations will be demanded.

Cindy Munford on June 24, 2012 at 11:38 AM

Tell me why it’s impossible Joana. It isn’t Afghanistan. If I was in charge it would be done in less than 30 days. Not even a chicken could cross that field. It would be sealed airtight. Your claim of impossible ,, typical liberal nonsense. We don’t even need the Feds to do it. Just quit sueing us, alright?

wolly4321 on June 24, 2012 at 11:38 AM

There are millions of illegal immigrants here who never crossed the Mexican border illegally. How exactly do you stop the leak if those millions of people keep coming in?

joana on June 24, 2012 at 11:36 AM

I don’t know, joana; how exactly do you stop the leak if those millions of people keep coming in?

steebo77 on June 24, 2012 at 11:39 AM

Perry is doing us proud on Face the Nation. Shieffer keeps asking him questions to bash Romney and he keeps turning it back to F & F.

Kataklysmic on June 24, 2012 at 11:40 AM

Now, can you answer this instead of trying to make that kind of desperate arguments:

Again, can you explain how exactly “securing the border”, if that was actually possible, would “eradicate” the “root problems” when millions of illegals never cross the border illegally ?

joana on June 24, 2012 at 11:38 AM

Can you answer my question (posed three or four times now): what would you do about the illegal immigration and border security questions?

In this whole thread, you haven’t provided anything constructive towards alleviating either problem.

steebo77 on June 24, 2012 at 11:41 AM

I repeat: joana, what solutions, if any, do you propose?

steebo77 on June 24, 2012 at 11:35 AM

Solutions to what? I’ve already said that anyone who thinks that there is a final solution to the border security problem – in the sense of preventing people from crossing our borders illegally – is either crazy or dishonest.

It’s like the extreme-left talking about a world with no oil, no prisons or perpetual peace.

I’m a conservative. I’m reality-based. I have no use for childish fantasies.

Some are really stupid enough to believe that it’s possible or that it’d solve anything; others are just using it to justify their position in other aspects of immigration. Just a red herring.

joana on June 24, 2012 at 11:41 AM

joana on June 24, 2012 at 11:32 AM

Exactly. You are here only to inflame. You deserve no response.

ORconservative on June 24, 2012 at 11:42 AM

joana on June 24, 2012 at 11:38 AM

First I would take advantage of the technology of today that has been under utilized in allowing people to come here legally but keeping tract of them. We don’t even try. I have no problem with people wanting to come here but it is unfair to those who follow the rules and wait an incredibly long time to do things legally. As in most of the cases in this country, we don’t need more laws we need to enforce what we have. Unfortunately doing that is now called racism. Nice little passive aggressive strawman tactic you should admire.

Cindy Munford on June 24, 2012 at 11:43 AM

morning all … needs more coffee … fascinating stuff canopfor

gh on June 24, 2012 at 10:27 AM

gh:-:)

canopfor on June 24, 2012 at 11:43 AM

joana on June 24, 2012 at 11:41 AM

Let’s put me in the crazy category and ignore me. I’m fine with that.

Cindy Munford on June 24, 2012 at 11:44 AM

So you are okay with being in massive debt and spending money we don’t have also?

Cindy Munford on June 24, 2012 at 11:34 AM

Stop using pathetic strawman arguments. Is that what you’ve been reduced too?

joana on June 24, 2012 at 11:44 AM

joana on June 24, 2012 at 11:44 AM

No, what I have been reduced to is ignoring you and your nothing is possible attitude. See ya!

Cindy Munford on June 24, 2012 at 11:45 AM

First I would take advantage of the technology of today that has been under utilized in allowing people to come here legally but keeping tract of them. We don’t even try. I have no problem with people wanting to come here but it is unfair to those who follow the rules and wait an incredibly long time to do things legally. As in most of the cases in this country, we don’t need more laws we need to enforce what we have. Unfortunately doing that is now called racism. Nice little passive aggressive strawman tactic you should admire.

Cindy Munford on June 24, 2012 at 11:43 AM

That still doesn’t answer the question. You keep avoiding it. Why?

Again, can you explain how exactly “securing the border”, if that was actually possible, would “eradicate” the “root problems” when millions of illegals never cross the border illegally ?

joana on June 24, 2012 at 11:45 AM

In five years the country will be accused of treating illegals as slaves and reparations will be demanded.

Cindy Munford on June 24, 2012 at 11:38 AM

Cindy Munford:Ya,some Democrat Dolt,is going to introduce a
Wages BackPay Compensation Pkg,disguised as Vote
Buying!:)
(sarc).

canopfor on June 24, 2012 at 11:46 AM

Solutions to what? I’ve already said that anyone who thinks that there is a final solution to the border security problem – in the sense of preventing people from crossing our borders illegally – is either crazy or dishonest.

It’s like the extreme-left talking about a world with no oil, no prisons or perpetual peace.

I’m a conservative. I’m reality-based. I have no use for childish fantasies.

Some are really stupid enough to believe that it’s possible or that it’d solve anything; others are just using it to justify their position in other aspects of immigration. Just a red herring.

joana on June 24, 2012 at 11:41 AM

I wasn’t asking for a “final solution” (nice use of a loaded term, by the way). What steps would you take to alleviate the situation? You still haven’t stated anything you would do, yet you throw stones at anyone who even attempts to come up with ideas.

And you keep going back to securing the border, as if that’s the only issue anyone has discussed. What about the illegal immigrants who are already here? What should be done in that regard?

steebo77 on June 24, 2012 at 11:47 AM

Tell me why it’s impossible Joana. It isn’t Afghanistan. If I was in charge it would be done in less than 30 days. Not even a chicken could cross that field. It would be sealed airtight.
wolly4321 on June 24, 2012 at 11:38 AM

The Berlin Wall had less than 100 miles in length, highly-militarized, and people would still cross it all the time. European countries are protected by thousands of miles of deep sea and yet illegal immigrants arrive on their shores clandestinely all the time. Heck, people have escaped from high-security concentration camps.

What do you say to these people? He probably actually believes in that.

joana on June 24, 2012 at 11:47 AM

“millions of illegals never cross the border illegally”

OMFG.

Keep it coming.. it’s full of wisdom….

Smart folks here. I know you get it.

I rest my case.

wolly4321 on June 24, 2012 at 11:49 AM

And you keep going back to securing the border, as if that’s the only issue anyone has discussed.

steebo77 on June 24, 2012 at 11:47 AM

Because it is.

I think it’s certainly possible to improve border security – by putting more competent people in place and allocate resources more rationally. But the idea people like Cindy and wolly defend that you can actually “completely stop the leak” and “eradicate the roots” is completely nuts and should be called out because it’s actually getting in the way of finding realistic solutions.

What about the illegal immigrants who are already here? What should be done in that regard?

steebo77 on June 24, 2012 at 11:47 AM

As I’ve said multiple times, self-deportation. With a few exceptions to some of those who were brought here as kids and have either acquired advanced degrees or are willing to serve in the military – give them legal residence status but no path to citizenship. For the large majority, self-deportation.

joana on June 24, 2012 at 11:52 AM

No, what I have been reduced to is ignoring you and your nothing is possible attitude. See ya!

Cindy Munford on June 24, 2012 at 11:45 AM

Just like AnninCA, joana is a thread hijacker with nothing to add to the discussion…

OmahaConservative on June 24, 2012 at 11:52 AM

Again, can you explain how exactly “securing the border”, if that was actually possible, would “eradicate” the “root problems” when millions of illegals never cross the border illegally ?

joana on June 24, 2012 at 11:45 AM

joana:Ugh,

its called a Border Checkpoint and Customs,where you
show your ID,and search,to make sure,entering either country,
you comply,with said countries laws,like handguns get stopped
at the Canadian border from the US,and held until,the US Citizen
returns from Canada,to the US!!

I guess it might be easier to canoe across the river,and skip
the border crossing,um,but thats against the law,and so,I guess

Mexicans get a freebe,above the law,and special!!!!!

canopfor on June 24, 2012 at 11:53 AM

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