Missing the point on Fast and Furious

posted at 11:01 am on June 24, 2012 by Jazz Shaw

This week we are likely to see the next act unfold in the ongoing saga of the Fast and Furious investigation as the full House considers whether or not to take any further action regarding the Attorney General’s reticence in handing over documents related to the program. One result of this has been some sadly predictable tongue clucking and accusations from the anti-gun lobby on the Left. The rationale invoked in these screeds is curious at best, but given how common it’s become we should probably take a look at a couple of prime examples.

The first comes to us courtesy of Andrew Cohen at The Atlantic. An early indicator to look for is the often repeated array of adjectives which these critics of the critics of the program use when describing it. Cohen goes with “failed gun-running sting.” He later ups the ante with, “a bad idea, poorly done.” It’s a constant theme these days in liberal coffee klatches. F&F wasn’t all that unusual or worthy of all this attention… it was just a poorly thought out effort to address a criminal problem.

So what should we be concerned about, in Cohen’s humble opinion?

None of this rancor excuses the poor judgment — across two administrations — which generated the program itself. And none of it justifies the burgeoning political battle over the scope of the documents the Republicans want Holder to hand over. Like so much else about Washington’s ruined politics these days, the partisan shouting will escalate, ribbons of blame will be laid, vast amounts of time and money will be spent, and the real problem will go unsolved…

But what’s the “real problem?”

The Brady Campaign contends that the “Fast and Furious” program involved about 2,000 firearms crossing the border into Mexico, about 3 percent of the guns moving from U.S. gun shops to Mexico in the last four years. The center’s Denis Henigan wants House Republicans, the ones chasing Eric Holder, to focus instead upon the other 97 percent of those guns.

See? Republicans are just “playing politics” with this and ignoring the real problem, which is that there are just too gosh darn many guns around in the US. And if there weren’t, then they wouldn’t be finding their way into Mexico. This whole, “you’re just playing politics” theme is echoed even more strongly in an editorial by Chris Hayes, he of rhetorically proximate fame. This whole thing is the Republicans’ fault because we’re living in The Era of Post-truth Politics.

Given what we know about the Republican Party, and the way the House of Representatives conducts itself when run by Republicans and with a Democrat in the White House, it shouldn’t really count as news when a House committee finds the Democratic attorney general in contempt of Congress…

But, alas, conservatives and House Republicans are good at ginning up outrage and their target is the Fast and Furious program, an attempt begun under the Bush administration to track illegal guns as they made their way through the hands of Mexican drug traffickers. The tracking wasn’t very well executed, and at least one of the guns that should have been monitored was used instead to shoot and kill Border Patrol agent Brian Terry. (This horrible tragedy was one of about 30-thousand people killed every year by guns. Somehow we don’t see much outrage and grief from Republicans about those).

This is pretty much a re-run of the Atlantic piece in many ways and seems to be the marching orders handed down from the White House. Here we see the program described as being not very well executed. (Hayes pulls up short of saying, “botched” which I’ve scored as the most common adjective used.) And the only fault by the Obama administration is not realizing that Republicans will never play fair so he should be tougher on them. In fact, as he cites Brian Terry’s death, Hayes barely has time to insert a parenthesis before bringing up how many other people are killed by guns.

Then there’s this gem:

And so, that’s why promoting this implausible conspiracy theory about a secret plot to make gun owners look bad by giving guns to Mexican traffickers is so important to the right and the NRA. It’s why they’ve been flogging Fast and Furious and why the NRA scored the vote on contempt. Since there is no actual case that the President wants to crush gun-rights, they have to make one.Because this is post-truth politics.

The author takes time out of his busy day to mock the idea of F&F being used as a tool to “make gun owners look bad” in the very same article where he uses his media platform to talk about the horrible situation of all these guns in America and gun deaths. The irony is palpable.

The reality is that the fact of 29,999 other gun related deaths does not make the death of Brian Terry one iota less tragic or important. And yes, there is a vast difference between criminals running guns into Mexico and the government doing it. We already know there is a problem with criminals looking to make big profits by running guns across the border and we need to beef up our efforts to curb that activity. We’re not surprised that criminals do this. We are surprised when the government does.

When it comes to Eric Holder and the President, a very old rule applies: the cover-up is almost always worse than the screw-up which led to it. And in terms of our democracy, the former may be more damaging than the latter. But Hayes and Cohen are welcome to keep telling themselves that it’s all dishonest politics and it’s only the Republicans who try to go after Democrats and prosecute them for political gain. I’m pretty sure Scooter Libby wrote something similar in his journal while doing his 400 hours of community service.


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How is “blame Bush” said in French?

ericdijon on June 24, 2012 at 12:04 PM

I don’t think there is a perfect translation, but this one is close, and it has historical meaning to the French connected to the Dreyfus scandal.

J’accuse Bush!

novaculus on June 24, 2012 at 12:41 PM

I don’t see President Romney running a fast and furious scam to try to make the 2nd Amendment look bad and then using executive privilege to cover it up.

LevinFan on June 24, 2012 at 12:37 PM

The ABR folks take their shots at really stupid times. It’s a disorder.

VegasRick on June 24, 2012 at 12:42 PM

Flora….

I just remembered something..
Remember last year-maybe..something about Obama saying they were working on gun control..kinda in passing..like behind the scenes..
Do you know what I am talking about?

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 12:42 PM

Flora….

I just remembered something..
Remember last year-maybe..something about Obama saying they were working on gun control..kinda in passing..like behind the scenes..
Do you know what I am talking about?

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 12:42 PM

He told Sarah Brady they were working on gun control but had to do it “under the radar”.

Del Dolemonte on June 24, 2012 at 12:44 PM

Someone needs to lock Sarah Brady (and her ilk) in a room and force them to look at a picture of each and every person killed by any of the weapons that Eric Holder authorized be shipped into Mexico. Then, once that’s done, make them watch it again. Afterwards, have them meet Agent Terry’s family personally and force them to explain why their consciences remain clear over the use of this despicable tactic and the lives lost just so that they can continue their misguided (at best) and evil (at worst) efforts to rob United States citizens of their second amendment rights.

natasha333 on June 24, 2012 at 12:44 PM

No Stalgia!

Key West Reader on June 24, 2012 at 12:44 PM

http://dailycaller.com/2012/06/24/hume-on-fast-and-furious-the-scent-of-a-cover-up-is-pretty-strong/

Hume on Fast and Furious: ‘The scent of a cover-up is pretty strong’

“I think the scent of a cover-up is pretty strong,” Hume said. “The documents are being withheld — I don’t think there is any evidence that this is not executive privilege made because of presidential communications, which is where the strongest privilege lies, are involved here. This is internal Justice Department deliberations that, so far as we know, don’t involve the president or the White House. And what the Justice Department is saying is we got to have confidentiality here and not have Congress snooping in our internal deliberations. Well, the courts recognized some privilege in that area but not much, and I think it is basically a frivolous claim.”

Chip on June 24, 2012 at 12:44 PM

Obama auditions for Presentdunce

And loses.

Key West Reader on June 24, 2012 at 12:46 PM

The data as to which weapons were traced via actual serial numbers is in the hands of Eric Holder. It could be 300, it could be 5,000. I don’t trust him and this is more information that Congress should be going after. We also depend on little Bammie’s government to tell us when these weapons cross back into the US and are used in crimes here. Again, I don’t trust them to report these crimes.

slickwillie2001 on June 24, 2012 at 12:41 PM

Well stated, and I agree with your points. I trust none of them either..and our media..well as Sarah says..lame. (understatement)

I wouldn’t trust the Mexican media either. Those people have lived for years under a corrupt Govt. They have no rights or freedom.
As a child, we had visited Mexico..the week we left their new President was shot dead. The cartels run the Govt. Very sad.
I have been all over Mexico, so much culture,kind people and beauty-resources. These people just waste away. There is a reason they come here in droves. It is a shame.

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 12:48 PM

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 12:42 PM

He told Sarah Brady they were working on gun control but had to do it “under the radar”.

Del Dolemonte on June 24, 2012 at 12:44 PM

This is the original source of that quote – a statement that was Never denied by the Downgrade regime or our dear liar, El Presidente himself:

Over a barrel? Meet White House gun policy adviser Steve Croley
Published: April 11, 2011
http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/over-a-barrel-meet-white-house-gun-policy-adviser-steve-croley/2011/04/04/AFt9EKND_story.html

On March 30, the 30th anniversary of the assassination attempt on President Ronald Reagan, Jim Brady, who sustained a debilitating head wound in the attack, and his wife, Sarah, came to Capitol Hill to push for a ban on the controversial “large magazines.” Brady, for whom the law requiring background checks on handgun purchasers is named, then met with White House press secretary Jay Carney. During the meeting, President Obama dropped in and, according to Sarah Brady, brought up the issue of gun control, “to fill us in that it was very much on his agenda,” she said.

“I just want you to know that we are working on it,” Brady recalled the president telling them. “We have to go through a few processes, but under the radar.”

In the meeting, she said, Obama discussed how records get into the system and what can be done about firearms retailers.

Chip on June 24, 2012 at 12:51 PM

Flora….

I just remembered something..
Remember last year-maybe..something about Obama saying they were working on gun control..kinda in passing..like behind the scenes..
Do you know what I am talking about?

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 12:42 PM

He told Sarah Brady they were working on gun control but had to do it “under the radar”.

Del Dolemonte on June 24, 2012 at 12:44 PM

Here’s another angle that little Bammie is working: OSHA Targets Shooting Range

Any one of several government departments can be reconfigured to go after guns. That’s what they are doing. The EPA is also going after the Lead used in bullets.

slickwillie2001 on June 24, 2012 at 12:51 PM

Del Dolemonte on June 24, 2012 at 12:44 PM

Thx..yes..I thought I remembered “under the radar”.

Someone needs to lock Sarah Brady (and her ilk) in a room and force them to look at a picture of each and every person killed by any of the weapons that Eric Holder authorized be shipped into Mexico. Then, once that’s done, make them watch it again. Afterwards, have them meet Agent Terry’s family personally and force them to explain why their consciences remain clear over the use of this despicable tactic and the lives lost just so that they can continue their misguided (at best) and evil (at worst) efforts to rob United States citizens of their second amendment rights.

natasha333 on June 24, 2012 at 12:44 PM

I think we should hand her over to the Zeta Cartel.

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 12:52 PM

Death is A Okay to accomplish their goal of gun control. They knew people-innocent people would be shot to death.
That makes you a murder, in my eyes. They may have just as well pulled the trigger themselves.

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 12:31 PM

That makes Obama as complicit in the murder of Mexican citizens as OBL was in the murder of American citizens.

Flora….

I just remembered something..
Remember last year-maybe..something about Obama saying they were working on gun control..kinda in passing..like behind the scenes..
Do you know what I am talking about?

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 12:42 PM

On March 30, the 30th anniversary of the assassination attempt on President Ronald Reagan, Jim Brady, who sustained a debilitating head wound in the attack, and his wife, Sarah, came to Capitol Hill to push for a ban on the controversial “large magazines.” Brady, for whom the law requiring background checks on handgun purchasers is named, then met with White House press secretary Jay Carney. During the meeting, President Obama dropped in and, according to Sarah Brady, brought up the issue of gun control, “to fill us in that it was very much on his agenda,” she said.

“I just want you to know that we are working on it,” Brady recalled the president telling them. “We have to go through a few processes, but under the radar.” Washington Post

Flora Duh on June 24, 2012 at 12:52 PM

I blame John Ehrlichman.

hillbillyjim on June 24, 2012 at 12:53 PM

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 12:48 PM | Delete | Delete and Ban

Alot of folks make fun of Glenn Beck. But on the F&F thing, I spent an entire night copying (hard copies) all of the articles ever published on this issue.

The bottom line is this: Eric Holder and Barack Obama attempted (poorly) to repeal the 2nd amendment of our Constitution. They also laid waste to over 200 human beings in the process. This isn’t Watergate. It is redrum.

Key West Reader on June 24, 2012 at 12:53 PM

At this point I think we’re all pretty disgusted by the way the lamestream media and the Maobama regime is trying to spin this.

It’s equally as frustrating that many voters still don’t know about this or think it’s that big of a deal.

I encourage everyone who is riled up about this on here to write letters to the editor and explain the corruption in detail to anyone who will listen.

As someone said upthread, this really is “Watergate with a body count.”

LevinFan on June 24, 2012 at 12:54 PM

This will end this presidency

And, this blogger should be compensated.

Key West Reader on June 24, 2012 at 12:56 PM

Thank you Chip.

Here’s another angle that little Bammie is working: OSHA Targets Shooting Range

Any one of several government departments can be reconfigured to go after guns. That’s what they are doing. The EPA is also going after the Lead used in bullets.

slickwillie2001 on June 24, 2012 at 12:51 PM

Interesting Slick. They have a strategy from every angle..strategic in their goal.

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 12:56 PM

How is “blame Bush” said in French?
 
ericdijon on June 24, 2012 at 12:04 PM

 

com se com sa
 
libfreeordie on June 21, 2012 at 5:41 PM

rogerb on June 24, 2012 at 12:56 PM

I just tried to catch up here and I have to say it is very gratifying. Some of us (you know who you are) have been on this massive government run crime spree from the time Codrea and Vanderboegh broke the story, months before Sheryl Arkisson first stole their work and.

But now, I see many people who are familiar enough with the facts that they can easily shred every lame deflection and obfuscation coming from Obama’s sycophants (and they have nothing else.) The word is out, and spreading. It can’t be stopped now.

Very gratifying.

novaculus on June 24, 2012 at 12:58 PM

Chip on June 24, 2012 at 12:51 PM

Oops, sorry Chip. I didn’t see that you had already posted the info bazil was looking for.

Flora Duh on June 24, 2012 at 12:58 PM

LevinFan on June 24, 2012 at 12:54 PM | Delete | Delete and Ban

CBS actually reported on this. If you click the link above (which will destroy any hopes that Obama will ever be re-elected, or likely arrested), I wonder where Jessica is now adays.

Key West Reader on June 24, 2012 at 12:59 PM

Some of Ronald Reagan’s people managed to get some guns south of the border to some good guys in the ’80s under some shady circumstances.

The Dems and the press scream bloody murder.

Some of Barry Ojesus’people manage to get some guns south of the border to some of the most barbaric butchers in modern history under shady circumstances.

The Dems and the press scream shrug.

hillbillyjim on June 24, 2012 at 12:59 PM

How is “blame Bush” said in French?

ericdijon on June 24, 2012 at 12:04 PM

Ballyhoo.

Key West Reader on June 24, 2012 at 1:00 PM

Key West Reader on June 24, 2012 at 12:53 PM

I have my moments with Beck. I met him at a book signing and like him most of the time.

This was a massacre- murder.

No one died in Watergate. This aint Watergate..and I know you agree.

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 1:00 PM

NoDonkey on June 24, 2012 at 11:16 AM

None. However, if you made Nixon’s enemies list you were banned from attending White House parties. That was far worse than the 2 US law enforcement officer’s and 300 Mexican citizens that were killed. I should say 300 and counting.

chemman on June 24, 2012 at 1:00 PM

The bottom line is this: Eric Holder and Barack Obama attempted (poorly) to repeal the 2nd amendment of our Constitution. They also laid waste to over 200 human beings in the process. This isn’t Watergate. It is redrum.

Key West Reader on June 24, 2012 at 12:53 PM

I would beg to differ. They did poorly attempt to repeal anything. They attempted an illegal and unconstitutional end-run around the second amendment that ultimately cost hundreds of Mexican lives, and the life of at least one American. At least the eighteenth amendment paid lip service to the constitution. The clowns in power now aren’t even pretending to do that much.

gryphon202 on June 24, 2012 at 1:01 PM

Thx Flora- thanks to everyone for the info and links.
I havent had time lately to keep up.

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 1:01 PM

If anyone thinks this is no big deal, they need to do just a little bit of keyboard research on the Mexican cartels.

These guys make Escobar look like a piker.

hillbillyjim on June 24, 2012 at 1:03 PM

First DoJ/ATF told the gun store owners to keep quiet about it when the owners reported suspicious activities as we ask FFLs to do. When they saw people who could not afford the amount of weapons they were buying and reported that to DoJ/ATF, those sales got pushed through by the ATF agents involved.

There was no attempt to track weapons going to known Mexican Cartel buyers. Zero. There was no attempt to stop them, either. No attempt to pick them up with illegal goods. No attempt to stop those guns from going over the border. No attempt at ALL to track them at ANY POINT in the entire scheme.

Zero attempts on these things.

Thus it was an operation to send guns illegally purchased by straw buyers across the border in an unaccountable way. That is how the program OPERATED.

It is not a ‘botched’ anything: it operated as it was designed to operate.

It was not a ‘sting’ as that requires actually trying to STOP the purchasers once they have the goods in hand. That wasn’t done until so long afterwards that it isn’t even funny, and usually for other reasons doing with drug smuggling or other criminal activity.

Anyone trying to push a different line is just sucking up the scum at the bottom of the Obama tank to protect Holder.

If the documents would show otherwise, Holder would have had them before Congress so fast that the time between request and delivery would be in hours… not months and heavily redacted…

Executive Privilege cannot protect those who are operating in a suspicious fashion indicating something improper and unlawful in such activity. That is F&F, Gunrunner, Gunwalker, Operation Castaway and other programs run by THIS ATF under the DoJ.

ajacksonian on June 24, 2012 at 1:03 PM

The political Chicago Mafia playing with the Mexican Cartel Mafia.
Thugs in suits.

Keep this mind people who want to sit on the couch and note vote Romney.

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 1:04 PM

Privilege is used for only one thing, to prevent normally admissible and harmful testimony from being heard. It is never, by its own definition, used to suppress harmless testimony or evidence.

pat on June 24, 2012 at 1:04 PM

hillbillyjim on June 24, 2012 at 1:03 PM

Yes, I encourage some reading on these cartels and the gangs by which associated. Many in TX. As they expand now all over the country now. We have the pretense of that expansion in Florida now.
They are evil. They are like animals.

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 1:06 PM

would beg to differ. They did poorly attempt to repeal anything. They attempted an illegal and unconstitutional end-run around the second amendment that ultimately cost hundreds of Mexican lives, and the life of at least one American. At least the eighteenth amendment paid lip service to the constitution. The clowns in power now aren’t even pretending to do that much.

gryphon202 on June 24, 2012 at 1:01 PM | Delete | Delete and Ban

Gryph, we have a community “organizer” sitting in the WH. Organizing Chaos.

Key West Reader on June 24, 2012 at 1:08 PM

They are as bad as any Islamic terrorist.

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 1:08 PM

Here’s another angle that little Bammie is working: OSHA Targets Shooting Range

Any one of several government departments can be reconfigured to go after guns. That’s what they are doing. The EPA is also going after the Lead used in bullets.

slickwillie2001 on June 24, 2012 at 12:51 PM

Interesting Slick. They have a strategy from every angle..strategic in their goal.bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 12:56 PM

It is part and parcel of The Chicago Way. In The Chicago Way, once you are in power you pervert every single resource of the government to your personal and political agendas. Every single resource. No janitor is hired, no street is paved, no contract is let unless it serves someone’s personal or political benefit. Agencies exist primarily to reward your friends and punish your enemies, and the ostensible purpose for which the government agency was founded is at best secondary.

The unrelenting and pervasive corruption and perversion of government resources to personal and political ends is The Chicago Way.

novaculus on June 24, 2012 at 1:08 PM

Gryph, we have a community “organizer” sitting in the WH. Organizing Chaos.

Key West Reader on June 24, 2012 at 1:08 PM

Chaos implies unpredictability, at least in the scientific “chaos theory” sense. I think most of us know what Obama’s goal is.

gryphon202 on June 24, 2012 at 1:10 PM

Here’s another angle that little Bammie is working: OSHA Targets Shooting Range

Any one of several government departments can be reconfigured to go after guns. That’s what they are doing. The EPA is also going after the Lead used in bullets. slickwillie2001 on June 24, 2012 at 12:51 PM

And of course, OboobaCare would be used to attack gun owners as well in the form of higher premiums.

Akzed on June 24, 2012 at 1:10 PM

Here is a little on The Zeta group

Due to their military background, Los Zetas are well armed, highly organized and equipped;[8] their brutal tactics, which include beheadings, torture and indiscriminate slaughter, show that they often prefer brutality over bribery.[8] Los Zetas are also Mexico’s largest drug cartel in terms of geographical presence, overtaking its bitter rival, the Sinaloa Cartel.[11] Besides drug trafficking, Los Zetas operate through protection rackets, assassinations, extortion, kidnappings, and other criminal activities.[12] The organization is based in Nuevo Laredo, Tamaulipas, directly across the border from Laredo, Texas.[13][14]

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 1:10 PM

The organization is based in Nuevo Laredo, Tamaulipas, directly across the border from Laredo, Texas.[13][14]

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 1:10 PM

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 1:11 PM

J Nap responds

Key West Reader on June 24, 2012 at 1:12 PM

Sew.

What if ..

Key West Reader on June 24, 2012 at 1:15 PM

Sharyl Attkisson is her name.

She broke the story in the media. I dont know if she got her information from Sipsey Street or not. But credit where it’s due. She took heat and got holy hell for her reporting. The WH screamed at her and yet ABC, the only alphabet network to do so, continued to report. Of course FOX has had great coverage. And TH Katy Pauvich has a Bestseller called Fast and Furious.

Nana on June 24, 2012 at 1:15 PM

Some of us (you know who you are) have been on this massive government run crime spree from the time Codrea and Vanderboegh broke the story, months before Sheryl Arkisson first stole their work and.
novaculus on June 24, 2012 at 12:58 PM

This was the first article I wrote for my blog on what would become “Fast and Furious” as you can see, it’s dated October 26, 2010. No it doesn’t name “Fast and Furious” by name. When I posted this, Brian Terry was still alive, though he would scarcely live more than a month longer.

SWalker on June 24, 2012 at 1:16 PM

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 1:04 PM

Bingo. Nailed it.

Remember please: The Mexican government was not informed about 2000 guns which were deliberately allowed to be trafficked to the Mexican Drug Cartels, at a time when thousands of innocent mexicans were being murdered daily.

Legal gun sellers were FORCED to allow these guns to be purchased by Mexican Drug Cartel “straw buyers.” Law enforcement were prevented from making arrests of those straw buyers or the traffickers. Those guns are now LOST–we don’t know where they are. They could be ANYWHERE.

The Mexican Drug Cartels are OPERATING NOW IN 1300 US CITIES–that we know of.

So, do you think some of those THOUSANDS of lost guns, which were trafficked to the Cartels will end up being used in a drug war against Americans?

Those guns are still out there.

Brian Terry in Arizona, and ICE agent, Jaime Zapata in Mexico are only the first Americans who will be murdered with these guns.

WHO’S GOING TO BE NEXT?

mountainaires on June 24, 2012 at 1:17 PM

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 1:10 PM

Yep. That, sadly, only scratches the surface, as you well know.

These people, if you can call them that, know only violence and butchery. They value not human live, only power and money. It is an abject failure of our media that more people don’t know what is going on south of our border.

I encourage all to do a little reading, and explain to your acquaintances just why the F&F fiasco is so horrific.

hillbillyjim on June 24, 2012 at 1:19 PM

Nope, not missing the point. SWalker on June 24, 2012 at 11:19 AM

Reading Alinsky is like reading Alistair Crowley. They both had the same inspiration.

Akzed on June 24, 2012 at 1:21 PM

Chaos implies unpredictability, at least in the scientific “chaos theory” sense. I think most of us know what Obama’s goal is.

gryphon202 on June 24, 2012 at 1:10 PM | Delete | Delete and Ban

Point taken.

Key West Reader on June 24, 2012 at 1:22 PM

If Congress had enacted the immigration reform that working families want instead of playing the politics of obstruction & dridlock, more Mexicans would have made it into the US and less would have been killed.

/trying on liberal mindset for a moment

//shudder

///ptoooie!

roy_batty on June 24, 2012 at 1:22 PM

As someone said upthread, this really is “Watergate with a body count.”

LevinFan on June 24, 2012 at 12:54 PM

Iowahawk refers to F&F as “Watergate with toe tags.”

Pass it around to all your libtard friends and family.

GrannyDee on June 24, 2012 at 1:23 PM

It is an abject failure of our media that more people don’t know what is going on south of our border.

hillbillyjim on June 24, 2012 at 1:19 PM

I’m sorry, I must uncategorically disagree with you. Before you can define something as a failure, you must first correctly identify what the intended goals are. The Fifth Column Treasonous Media’s goals are not to accurately inform American Citizens of what their government is doing. their goal is to indoctrinate Americans into thinking what they want them to think, and at that they have been pretty damned successful.

SWalker on June 24, 2012 at 1:24 PM

Oh, fer crying out loud.

The Occupant in the WH is seriously displaced. He knows it, we know it, everyone knows it.

So what’s up wi this campaign?

:O0~~

Key West Reader on June 24, 2012 at 1:24 PM

In those documents hidden from Congress, I firmly believe that there is hyper-damning testimony from SippyCup and/or With-Holder discussing innocent people dying and both/either of them ultimately dismissing them as collateral damage/’gotta-break-a-few-eggs’.

[snip]

SnarkySam on June 24, 2012 at 11:26 AM

Pardon my ignorance, but who is “Sippy Cup?”

cane_loader on June 24, 2012 at 1:25 PM

The political Chicago Mafia playing with the Mexican Cartel Mafia.
Thugs in suits.

Keep this mind people who want to sit on the couch and note vote Romney.

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 1:04 PM

Exactly!!

Remember this people! As bad as Mittens is, he would never run a scam like this to try to bash the 2nd Amendment and then use executive privilege to cover it up!

He would never raid Gibson Guitars and never charge them. He would never give the Medal of Freedom to an American hating socialist who thinks all Republicans hate Latinos!

Enough with ROmney is Obama garbage. Time to wake up!!

LevinFan on June 24, 2012 at 1:25 PM

Leak

Condoleeza Rice is Romney’s VP.

Good choice IMHO.

Key West Reader on June 24, 2012 at 1:26 PM

Sharyl Attkisson is her name.

She broke the story in the media. I dont know if she got her information from Sipsey Street or not. But credit where it’s due. She took heat and got holy hell for her reporting. The WH screamed at her and yet ABC, the only alphabet network to do so, continued to report. Of course FOX has had great coverage. And TH Katy Pauvich has a Bestseller called Fast and Furious. Nana on June 24, 2012 at 1:15 PM

She’s with CBS.

Akzed on June 24, 2012 at 1:27 PM

Leak

Condoleeza Rice is Romney’s VP.

Good choice IMHO.

Key West Reader on June 24, 2012 at 1:26 PM

With all due respect, that would be an incredibly stupid choice.

SWalker on June 24, 2012 at 1:27 PM

I encourage all to do a little reading, and explain to your acquaintances just why the F&F fiasco is so horrific.

hillbillyjim on June 24, 2012 at 1:19 PM

And why the Govt has failed in protecting our borders and citizens. It is a cancer that has spread across our country. The Zeta cartel is only 1.

For those of you that sit back and hem haw about illegal immigration and the borders..there is a million reasons why this is a major issue for many of us! The tentacles are far reaching-and much damage has been done in every way.
Go live near a border..I have. Its an effing blast.

As hillybilly said..do some reading up..not only on these cartels but the gangs spread across the country associated with them. The Govt failed us over and over for years. Its a puss filled wound. We demand that our Govt protect us..what do they do? The opposite and now they have put hundreds if not 1000′s in danger to accomplish gun control.

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 1:31 PM

On June 14, 2012,Sharyl Attkisson was awarded the RTNDA Edward R. Murrow Award for Excellence in Investigative Reporting for the “Gunwalker: Fast and Furious” story. There was hardly any mention of that by any other MSM outlet if you Google it.

bayview on June 24, 2012 at 1:31 PM

LevinFan on June 24, 2012 at 1:25 PM

I second the motion.

hillbillyjim on June 24, 2012 at 1:31 PM

The two people for VP that would make me pull out my hair would be Rice and Rubio.

Rice is a squishy academic and Rubio is too young and has never worked with his hands – he’s been fast-tracked just like 0bama – was trained to work in government and went straight there with exactly zero private-sector experience (don’t mean to smear him with the association).

Both would be a race-puppet pick, and the last thing we need is the GOP joining in the destructive race games.

If Romney picks one of them, my cynicism will reach critical mass.

cane_loader on June 24, 2012 at 1:32 PM

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 1:31 PM

Thank you.

+1000

cane_loader on June 24, 2012 at 1:33 PM

And Obama was given the Nobel Peace Prize….

I could lmao or vomit.

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 1:33 PM

The Govt failed us over and over for years. Its a puss filled wound. We demand that our Govt protect us..what do they do? The opposite and now they have put hundreds if not 1000′s in danger to accomplish gun control.

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 1:31 PM

As I told hillybilly upthread.

Before you can define something as a failure, you must first correctly identify what the intended goals are.

SWalker on June 24, 2012 at 1:34 PM

Leak

Condoleeza Rice is Romney’s VP.

Good choice IMHO.

Key West Reader on June 24, 2012 at 1:26 PM
With all due respect, that would be an incredibly stupid choice.

SWalker on June 24, 2012 at 1:27 PM | Delete | Delete and Ban

Why ?

Key West Reader on June 24, 2012 at 1:34 PM

Lots of good links in the comments section. Thanks everyone…

OmahaConservative on June 24, 2012 at 1:35 PM

With all due respect, that would be an incredibly stupid choice.

SWalker on June 24, 2012 at 1:27 PM | Delete | Delete and Ban

Obama is worried.

Key West Reader on June 24, 2012 at 1:35 PM

Why ?

Key West Reader on June 24, 2012 at 1:34 PM

Because she is a Marxist leaning Liberal RINO academic.

SWalker on June 24, 2012 at 1:35 PM

It wasn’t just F&F. Hillary’s State Dept approved a massive 18,000+ gun sales to Mexico in 2009 knowing that a percentage of them would end up arming the cartels. The Bush administration approved 2,000-3,000 gun sales to Mexico each year to put things in perspective so in 1 year Obama sent as many guns to Mexico as Bush did in 8 years. Who knows what was approved in 2010.

Wigglesworth on June 24, 2012 at 1:37 PM

Thank you.

+1000

cane_loader on June 24, 2012 at 1:33 PM

Your welcome Cane.
I grew up in So Cal in the 80′s.
This is an issue that has made me so upset for so long-since a child.
I also took Organized Crime/Gang classes in college getting my degree. Theres some serious sh$t thats been going on for a long time-everyday. Thanks to the media..no one understands the depth or magnitude.

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 1:37 PM

I am with Walker…NO Rice.
Wont happen anyway.

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 1:39 PM

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 1:10 PM

As you probably know,

Zeta <– Hezbollah

In the view of Former Border Patrol Agent Zachary Taylor:

The approximately 45,000 casualties of the drug war so far have been largely a response to Mexican President Calderon’s attempts to crack down on the cartels. If the drug barons were able to help install a leftist, anti-American government that would turn a blind eye to the drug trade, it would be a huge victory for the narco-traffickers. And a huge problem for the United States.

“Mexico has an insurgency on its hands — that is exactly what the problem is — and America will have the same problem as it makes it easier to get across the border,” Taylor said.

But Taylor brought some outside elements into his analysis. He stated that drug cartel activity and terrorist activity are both transnational in nature, which means groups from around the world have become involved.

In this case, that means the Shia militant group Hezbollah.

Taylor said that Hezbollah is allying with the drug and alien smuggling operations at the border to help finance their operations in the Middle East. And in the event of hostilities with Hezbollah’s benefactor — Iran — Taylor is concerned that the cartel smuggling networks could help make America’s WMD nightmare come true.

petefrt on June 24, 2012 at 1:39 PM

Before you can define something as a failure, you must first correctly identify what the intended goals are.

SWalker on June 24, 2012 at 1:34 PM

I could spend time listing goals and why its a failure. But I think its quite obvious.

Perhaps, I could start my own blog about it. ;)

Actually, I wish Madcon was still posting and did a series on all this. Thx HA.

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 1:42 PM

The center’s Denis Henigan wants House Republicans, the ones chasing Eric Holder, to focus instead upon the other 97 percent of those guns.

Nixon wanted the country to focus on the other 99.999 percent of burglaries.

pedestrian on June 24, 2012 at 1:43 PM

Leak

Condoleeza Rice is Romney’s VP.

Good choice IMHO.

Key West Reader on June 24, 2012 at 1:26 PM

Let’s hope not…

Akzed on June 24, 2012 at 1:45 PM

It wasn’t just F&F. Hillary’s State Dept approved a massive 18,000+ gun sales to Mexico in 2009 knowing that a percentage of them would end up arming the cartels. The Bush administration approved 2,000-3,000 gun sales to Mexico each year to put things in perspective so in 1 year Obama sent as many guns to Mexico as Bush did in 8 years. Who knows what was approved in 2010.

Wigglesworth on June 24, 2012 at 1:37 PM

Why did Bush sell ANY guns to Mexico period?

WHy did he do Hernandez and Wide Receiever? Not nearly as bad as Fast and Furious, but still pretty stupid.

LevinFan on June 24, 2012 at 1:47 PM

Thank you Chip.

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 12:56 PM

You’re welcome.

Oops, sorry Chip. I didn’t see that you had already posted the info bazil was looking for.

Flora Duh on June 24, 2012 at 12:58 PM

That’s okay – as long as the information gets passed along.

Chip on June 24, 2012 at 1:47 PM

petefrt on June 24, 2012 at 1:39 PM

Yes, and here is a nice little story below.

Hezz and Zeta holding hands…sound good?

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 1:47 PM

Leak

Condoleeza Rice is Romney’s VP.

Good choice IMHO.

Key West Reader on June 24, 2012 at 1:26 PM

Got a linky?

LevinFan on June 24, 2012 at 1:48 PM

So when is mitt going to use this as a political campaign and run asgains tthe criminal Obama. Oh wait Obama is a nice guy,…i forgot the GOP establishment line of the decade. Obama is a nice guy….

just repeat it enough and u too will start to believe like McCaina nd Mitt believe.

unseen on June 24, 2012 at 1:53 PM

Actually, I wish Madcon was still posting and did a series on all this. Thx HA.

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 1:42 PM

I like Madcon, too bad it’s not worth it to him to vote against Maobama.

It’s sad and I say the same to all those who refuse to vote for Romney this November. Why do you care about Fast and Furious, Obamacare, Dodd-Frank or anything else??? If it’s not worth it to you to vote for ROmney to defeat Obama then haven’t you lost your right to complain??

LevinFan on June 24, 2012 at 1:55 PM

Sharyl Attkisson, Washington Times
Friday, June 22, 2012

The White House said a former National Security staffer who communicated with ATF’s Special Agent in charge of “Fast and Furious” cannot be interviewed by Congressional investigators.

The ATF Special Agent, Bill Newell, testified to Congress in July 2011 that he’s a longtime friend with then-White House National Security Staffer Kevin O’Reilly. …

For nearly a year, Republican Congressional investigators have been seeking an interview with O’Reilly to ask what he knew “about the objectives and tactics used in Fast and Furious and with whom did he share his knowledge.”

petefrt on June 24, 2012 at 1:57 PM

LevinFan on June 24, 2012 at 1:55 PM

I didn’t realize Madcon wasn’t voting. His business.
But I agree with what you said..where I am at.

I did like MadCon’s posts in the Green Room though.

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 1:58 PM

So when is mitt going to use this as a political campaign and run asgains tthe criminal Obama. Oh wait Obama is a nice guy,…i forgot the GOP establishment line of the decade. Obama is a nice guy….

just repeat it enough and u too will start to believe like McCaina nd Mitt believe.

unseen on June 24, 2012 at 1:53 PM

I wish Romney would use this. It’s a lost opportunity not to.

However he’s NOT McLame. Just look at the Solyndra thing (both heckling Axelrod in Boston and then showing up at Solyndra for a presser). No one McLame would ever do that.

Plus Romney gave a speech the same time as Maobama in Ohio, another thing McLame never would’ve done. ROmney has refused to condemn his supporters who heckled Maobam.

Romney has also resfused to disavow supporters like Trump or to disavow Rush just b/c the media asked him to. Not only would McLame had do so, he’d do so before even being asked.

LevinFan on June 24, 2012 at 2:00 PM

I didn’t realize Madcon wasn’t voting. His business.
But I agree with what you said..where I am at.

I did like MadCon’s posts in the Green Room though.

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 1:58 PM

The truth is it’s all our business though. When good conservatives stay home it affects us all. I don’t want me and my family to suffer under a lifetime of socialism just b/c some conservatives had it in for Romney.

LevinFan on June 24, 2012 at 2:02 PM

Hezz and Zeta holding hands…sound good?

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 1:47 PM

The regime and msm will keep this under the rug until it blows up in our faces.

I have to wonder how much Obama/Holder would like to see the left wingers overthrow Calderone.

petefrt on June 24, 2012 at 2:03 PM

My question is, did Obama himself pull the trigger on the weapon that killed Brian Terry, or was it the second gunman on the grassy knoll?
Speaking of missing the point, Agent Terry would still be dead regardless of F&F, or any other 2nd amendment conspiracy envisaged. Whoever killed him would surely have done so no matter where his weapon came from.

greataunty on June 24, 2012 at 2:04 PM

cane_loader on June 24, 2012 at 1:33 PM

cane_loader, GoHawgs was asking about you on QOTD a couple of nights ago. He asked me to tell you if and when I saw you> Let me know if you saw this message.; )

Bmore on June 24, 2012 at 2:05 PM

LevinFan on June 24, 2012 at 2:00 PM

Romney’s also done stupid crap like hiring Mike Leavitt. He has clearly NOT taken every step he could to distance himself from Obama. That Mitt is a better campaigner than McCain was is a cold comfort.

gryphon202 on June 24, 2012 at 2:08 PM

Clearly, obscuring the point of Fast and Furious is meant for consumption by the True Believers, to keep them in the Fold, shellacked with a veneer of plausible deniability, to assuage any hint of cognitive dissonance. To the rest of us? Yeah, it’s pathetic, blatant, offensive.

Kenosha Kid on June 24, 2012 at 2:08 PM

The truth is it’s all our business though. When good conservatives stay home it affects us all. I don’t want me and my family to suffer under a lifetime of socialism just b/c some conservatives had it in for Romney.

LevinFan on June 24, 2012 at 2:02 PM

It does effect us all and it upsets me but it is his business and right. So, I respectfully disagree that is it all our business what he chooses to do in the voting booth. We can disagree with him, be angry at his choice but still his right to do what he wants to do.

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 2:09 PM

My question is, did Obama himself pull the trigger on the weapon that killed Brian Terry, or was it the second gunman on the grassy knoll?
Speaking of missing the point, Agent Terry would still be dead regardless of F&F, or any other 2nd amendment conspiracy envisaged. Whoever killed him would surely have done so no matter where his weapon came from.

greataunty on June 24, 2012 at 2:04 PM

Says the idiot who completely misses the point of this thread. It’s the cover up dummy.

VegasRick on June 24, 2012 at 2:10 PM

My question is, did Obama himself pull the trigger on the weapon that killed Brian Terry, or was it the second gunman on the grassy knoll?
Speaking of missing the point, Agent Terry would still be dead regardless of F&F, or any other 2nd amendment conspiracy envisaged. Whoever killed him would surely have done so no matter where his weapon came from.

greataunty on June 24, 2012 at 2:04 PM

Really? You’re asking us how we know that F&F was responsible for his death. How do you know it wasn’t? The truth is, Agent Terry was killed by a gun that was trafficked by our government into Mexico with no oversight nor any knowledge on the part of the Mexican government. That is a provable fact, while you are engaging in useless speculation. It is also a provable fact that same scad of guns killed at least 200 civilian Mexicans, and possibly more. But who cares? They’re just Mexicans, right? Right?!

gryphon202 on June 24, 2012 at 2:10 PM

Says the idiot who completely misses the point of this thread. It’s the cover up dummy.

VegasRick on June 24, 2012 at 2:10 PM

Takes all kinds, doesn’t it?

GrannyDee on June 24, 2012 at 2:12 PM

Hezz and Zeta holding hands…sound good?

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 1:47 PM

The regime and msm will keep this under the rug until it blows up in our faces.

I have to wonder how much Obama/Holder would like to see the left wingers overthrow Calderone.

petefrt on June 24, 2012 at 2:03 PM

Yeah, it takes something disastrous for anything to be done. We are not pro-active but re-active.

It’s one of the first times U.S. prosecutors have made a connection between the terror group and Mexican cartels. Last October, the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) foiled an attempt on the life of a Saudi ambassador by Iranian agents who tried to hire the Zetas as assassins.

And remember The Zeta’s organization is based in Nuevo Laredo, Tamaulipas, directly across the border from Laredo, Texas.

Comforting huh?

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 2:14 PM

Takes all kinds, doesn’t it?

GrannyDee on June 24, 2012 at 2:12 PM

Life’s tough. Even tougher when you’re stupid.
*JW

VegasRick on June 24, 2012 at 2:14 PM

Romney’s also done stupid crap like hiring Mike Leavitt. He has clearly NOT taken every step he could to distance himself from Obama. That Mitt is a better campaigner than McCain was is a cold comfort.

gryphon202 on June 24, 2012 at 2:08 PM

Yes ROmney has done some stupid things.

However he’s NOT a socialist like Obama.

Romney doesn’t have contempt for Americans.

Again he won’t do Fast and Furious, raid Gibson Guitars..etc.

Do you see what I mean??

LevinFan on June 24, 2012 at 2:14 PM

Life’s tough. Even tougher when you’re stupid.
*JW

VegasRick on June 24, 2012 at 2:14 PM

Love that quote. :)

GrannyDee on June 24, 2012 at 2:16 PM

Again he won’t do Fast and Furious, raid Gibson Guitars..etc.

Do you see what I mean??

LevinFan on June 24, 2012 at 2:14 PM

“So, I guess I’m supposed to be angrier with Romney for what he spends HIS money on than what obambi spends MY money on.”
Summed up.

VegasRick on June 24, 2012 at 2:18 PM

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