Missing the point on Fast and Furious

posted at 11:01 am on June 24, 2012 by Jazz Shaw

This week we are likely to see the next act unfold in the ongoing saga of the Fast and Furious investigation as the full House considers whether or not to take any further action regarding the Attorney General’s reticence in handing over documents related to the program. One result of this has been some sadly predictable tongue clucking and accusations from the anti-gun lobby on the Left. The rationale invoked in these screeds is curious at best, but given how common it’s become we should probably take a look at a couple of prime examples.

The first comes to us courtesy of Andrew Cohen at The Atlantic. An early indicator to look for is the often repeated array of adjectives which these critics of the critics of the program use when describing it. Cohen goes with “failed gun-running sting.” He later ups the ante with, “a bad idea, poorly done.” It’s a constant theme these days in liberal coffee klatches. F&F wasn’t all that unusual or worthy of all this attention… it was just a poorly thought out effort to address a criminal problem.

So what should we be concerned about, in Cohen’s humble opinion?

None of this rancor excuses the poor judgment — across two administrations — which generated the program itself. And none of it justifies the burgeoning political battle over the scope of the documents the Republicans want Holder to hand over. Like so much else about Washington’s ruined politics these days, the partisan shouting will escalate, ribbons of blame will be laid, vast amounts of time and money will be spent, and the real problem will go unsolved…

But what’s the “real problem?”

The Brady Campaign contends that the “Fast and Furious” program involved about 2,000 firearms crossing the border into Mexico, about 3 percent of the guns moving from U.S. gun shops to Mexico in the last four years. The center’s Denis Henigan wants House Republicans, the ones chasing Eric Holder, to focus instead upon the other 97 percent of those guns.

See? Republicans are just “playing politics” with this and ignoring the real problem, which is that there are just too gosh darn many guns around in the US. And if there weren’t, then they wouldn’t be finding their way into Mexico. This whole, “you’re just playing politics” theme is echoed even more strongly in an editorial by Chris Hayes, he of rhetorically proximate fame. This whole thing is the Republicans’ fault because we’re living in The Era of Post-truth Politics.

Given what we know about the Republican Party, and the way the House of Representatives conducts itself when run by Republicans and with a Democrat in the White House, it shouldn’t really count as news when a House committee finds the Democratic attorney general in contempt of Congress…

But, alas, conservatives and House Republicans are good at ginning up outrage and their target is the Fast and Furious program, an attempt begun under the Bush administration to track illegal guns as they made their way through the hands of Mexican drug traffickers. The tracking wasn’t very well executed, and at least one of the guns that should have been monitored was used instead to shoot and kill Border Patrol agent Brian Terry. (This horrible tragedy was one of about 30-thousand people killed every year by guns. Somehow we don’t see much outrage and grief from Republicans about those).

This is pretty much a re-run of the Atlantic piece in many ways and seems to be the marching orders handed down from the White House. Here we see the program described as being not very well executed. (Hayes pulls up short of saying, “botched” which I’ve scored as the most common adjective used.) And the only fault by the Obama administration is not realizing that Republicans will never play fair so he should be tougher on them. In fact, as he cites Brian Terry’s death, Hayes barely has time to insert a parenthesis before bringing up how many other people are killed by guns.

Then there’s this gem:

And so, that’s why promoting this implausible conspiracy theory about a secret plot to make gun owners look bad by giving guns to Mexican traffickers is so important to the right and the NRA. It’s why they’ve been flogging Fast and Furious and why the NRA scored the vote on contempt. Since there is no actual case that the President wants to crush gun-rights, they have to make one.Because this is post-truth politics.

The author takes time out of his busy day to mock the idea of F&F being used as a tool to “make gun owners look bad” in the very same article where he uses his media platform to talk about the horrible situation of all these guns in America and gun deaths. The irony is palpable.

The reality is that the fact of 29,999 other gun related deaths does not make the death of Brian Terry one iota less tragic or important. And yes, there is a vast difference between criminals running guns into Mexico and the government doing it. We already know there is a problem with criminals looking to make big profits by running guns across the border and we need to beef up our efforts to curb that activity. We’re not surprised that criminals do this. We are surprised when the government does.

When it comes to Eric Holder and the President, a very old rule applies: the cover-up is almost always worse than the screw-up which led to it. And in terms of our democracy, the former may be more damaging than the latter. But Hayes and Cohen are welcome to keep telling themselves that it’s all dishonest politics and it’s only the Republicans who try to go after Democrats and prosecute them for political gain. I’m pretty sure Scooter Libby wrote something similar in his journal while doing his 400 hours of community service.


Related Posts:

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 2 3 4

Obama /Holder lied…….people died.

Use their own tactics right back on the left.

PappyD61 on June 24, 2012 at 11:04 AM

You could have flipped from NBC this morning to ABC (the only two I watched, both overpopulated with liberals) and see the talking point was “Fast and Furious investigations destroy jobs”.

Marcus on June 24, 2012 at 11:10 AM

Am I reading an argument from Andrew that if criminals do it, it makes it better that the government joins them? Since when does the US Government combat crime with crime? Why is it legal for the US Government to run or walk guns into Mexico, but illegal for the masses? Is this the same argument that turns an illegal into a legal with rights of a US citizen?

Brian Terry was not the ONLY person killed with these guns. There’s at least 300 Mexican citizens that were also killed by the US Government’s illegal actions which caused harm on the soil of one of our allies.

katablog.com on June 24, 2012 at 11:11 AM

If only there were another party with a presidential candidate who could hold the anti-gun zealots’ feet to the fire on this. Alas, we have two major parties with anti-gun zealots running for president.

besser tot als rot on June 24, 2012 at 11:11 AM

They held holder in Contempt for lying to congress and refusing to tell them how that lie was conceived. Everyone is missing the point. The contempt charge has nothing to do with F&F, but the coverup that followed it.

Mord on June 24, 2012 at 11:11 AM

The author takes time out of his busy day to mock the idea of F&F being used as a tool to “make gun owners look bad” in the very same article where he uses his media platform to talk about the horrible situation of all these guns in America and gun deaths. The irony is palpable

…makes me want to puke!…under the radar…

KOOLAID2 on June 24, 2012 at 11:11 AM

Republicans should move to defund and permanently shutter the ATF. If the Administration’s account is true, the ATF is an out-of-control agency, which has far overstepped its mission by involving itself in a neighboring country’s civil war.
On the other hand, if the ATF didn’t unilaterally take it upon themselves to arm the cartels, the threat of being shut down would probably motivate a lot of careerist bureaucrats to leak memos and emails showing direct DoJ involvement.

Lawdawg86 on June 24, 2012 at 11:14 AM

The contempt charge has nothing to do with F&F, but the coverup that followed it.

Mord on June 24, 2012 at 11:11 AM

Claiming EP on the documents related to the cover-up is an implicit admission by Obama that he was intimately involved in the cover-up, isn’t it?

besser tot als rot on June 24, 2012 at 11:14 AM

Valerie Plame.

Just mention that name to any dishonest Democrite who thinks Holder is awesome, and watch the uh- uhs start rolling out.

Approximate context.

FlaMurph on June 24, 2012 at 11:15 AM

How many people did Watergate kill?

NoDonkey on June 24, 2012 at 11:16 AM

Of course, the contempt vote isn’t so much about all of F&F itself; it’s about how when Congress was trying to figure out just who gave the go-ahead for this disaster (that cost two federal agents their lives) they found out they were LIED to about who knew what when. Now they’re trying to figure out who ordered the LYING to Congress, and only that, as per the scope of the document demands now hidden under EP.

Apparently, if the EP is valid, it must go right to the President. It’s a 5th Amendment plea like that. We know he was involved somehow, but it’s not prosecutable without that evidence.

JeffWeimer on June 24, 2012 at 11:16 AM

besser tot als rot on June 24, 2012 at 11:14 AM

Yep. Read Andrew McCarthy’s piece on Fast and Furious and OCDETF at Natioal Review Online. Obama and Holder are in deep doo doo.

jb34461 on June 24, 2012 at 11:17 AM

Actually, while keeping tabs on this whole train wreck from the beginning, the only reason for this operation that makes any sense is the “under the radar” gun-control angle.
These guys were willing, nay, hoping to see some deaths occur to get public support for further anti-gun legislation. That’s sick.

Durka-Durka on June 24, 2012 at 11:19 AM

besser tot als rot on June 24, 2012 at 11:14 AM

That is the problem. The EP only stands if Obama was involved, and Holder testified under Oath that he knew nothing about F&F. So either Holder lied, Obama lied or both. Obama has not yet lied under oath, but we’ll have to wait and see.

Mord on June 24, 2012 at 11:24 AM

Where’s the damn Documents?

The Brady Campaign contends that the “Fast and Furious” program involved about 2,000 firearms crossing the border into Mexico, about 3 percent of the guns moving from U.S. gun shops to Mexico in the last four years. The center’s Denis Henigan wants House Republicans, the ones chasing Eric Holder, to focus instead upon the other 97 percent of those guns.

LIES about USA Mexico Gun Trafficking

And so, that’s why promoting this implausible conspiracy theory about a secret plot to make gun owners look bad by giving guns to Mexican traffickers is so important to the right and the NRA. It’s why they’ve been flogging Fast and Furious and why the NRA scored the vote on contempt. Since there is no actual case that the President wants to crush gun-rights, they have to make one.Because this is post-truth politics.

Yeah, well, there’s one little inconvenient truth to your fallacy Hayes:

Documents: ATF used “Fast and Furious” to make the case for gun regulations

I swear, this lie, stonewall, and excuse bullchit by the leftists and the media (I know) has me so angry I’m ready to punch the next liberal I see square in the mouth – whether they say anything or not.

I can only imagine how angry the Terry and Zapata families must be.

Flora Duh on June 24, 2012 at 11:25 AM

In those documents hidden from Congress, I firmly believe that there is hyper-damning testimony from SippyCup and/or With-Holder discussing innocent people dying and both/either of them ultimately dismissing them as collateral damage/’gotta-break-a-few-eggs’.

If such remarks exist and are ultimately made public, SippyCup knows that his ambition to run for President in 2016, 2020, etc. is destroyed. Yes, he is that arrogant & power-mad.

Thanks, 52%, for heaping this despicable bastard on us all just so that you could “feel good about making ‘history’”.

SnarkySam on June 24, 2012 at 11:26 AM

But, alas, conservatives and House Republicans are good at ginning up outrage and their target is the Fast and Furious program, an attempt begun under the Bush administration to track illegal guns as they made their way through the hands of Mexican drug traffickers. ~ Hayes

This is the most common narrative the liberal pundits have used in the past week. It’s the Obama, “this is all Bush’s fault, or Bush did it too” meme, now playing for the past three and a half years.

But the facts show that GW’s approved program had approval from the Mexican Government, stopped/arrested at the point of the transaction, and most importantly, no guns walked across the border to be lost/given to cartels.

Finally, no one was murdered under Bush’s program, while Holder’s F&F is responsible for hundreds of deaths.

The liberal media, and Mr. Hayes know this, yet they continue to lie to the public about this real travesty.

Rovin on June 24, 2012 at 11:30 AM

Fast & Furious was a wildly successful operation.

Holder lied, people died.

Watergate with a body count.

ted c on June 24, 2012 at 11:30 AM

You could have flipped from NBC this morning to ABC (the only two I watched, both overpopulated with liberals) and see the talking point was “Fast and Furious investigations destroy jobs”.

Marcus on June 24, 2012 at 11:10 AM

Great post.
Another one of the chatting points was that F&F is just an extensions of WR=Wide Receiver, a somewhat similar,according to the left, program initiated by Bush.Remember everything is Bush’s fault. If you don’t believe it just ask any card carrying member of the regime.
Trouble is Wide Receiver was very different from F&F. Wide Receiver was known to the Mexican government and they actively participated in it. Every effort was made to track guns that went across the border under WR and when it appeared that the project was not working as it should be Bush shut it down!!Somehow the left leaves those little details out whenever they try and roll us.

rodguy911 on June 24, 2012 at 11:32 AM

I can only imagine how angry the Terry and Zapata families must be.

Flora Duh on June 24, 2012 at 11:25 AM

If it were my son or any of my grandsons, I’d be standing outside the WH day and night, holding a sign and demanding justice.

Believe me, I am not criticizing the way the Terry and Zapata families are handling their situations. Each of us demands justice in their own way.

GrannyDee on June 24, 2012 at 11:32 AM

“I don’t understand all of this anti- gun possession nonsense. This was a devious and deliberate attempt by the GOP to keep minorities from voting. Am I the only smart person in the room?”

- Nancy Pelosi

fogw on June 24, 2012 at 11:32 AM

All this misses a simple point…if the program was ‘botched’, what was it supposed to do considering there never was any effort to track guns once sold? Why was the government flooding drug dealers with illegal US sourced guns if not to ‘prove’ US guns are being used in crimes in Mexico?

JIMV on June 24, 2012 at 11:34 AM

They held holder in Contempt for lying to congress and refusing to tell them how that lie was conceived. Everyone is missing the point. The contempt charge has nothing to do with F&F, but the coverup that followed it.

Mord on June 24, 2012 at 11:11 AM

Good catch, Mord. Good clear, clean thinking.

While there are plenty other issues in F&F, we should not allow them to be obfuscated/conflated with the contempt charge.

Claiming EP on the documents related to the cover-up is an implicit admission by Obama that he was intimately involved in the cover-up, isn’t it?

besser tot als rot on June 24, 2012 at 11:14 AM

Yep, sure looks like it.

petefrt on June 24, 2012 at 11:35 AM

It was not botched, as many have said, unless the “botched” is because they got caught.

ORconservative on June 24, 2012 at 11:36 AM

The flying Monkey Media defenders of Holder and Obama on F&F have a have one of these two things in common: Willful ignorance or outright mendacity.

They are desperate, because the narrative is no longer within their control. It is disintegrating as more and more people escape the Cone Of Ignorance the FMM has tried to impose on Fast & Furious.

No matter how they try to minimize and equivocate, more and more people are going to understand that we have to get to the bottom of it.

They can’t stop the rain falling.

novaculus on June 24, 2012 at 11:37 AM

In those documents hidden from Congress, I firmly believe that there is hyper-damning testimony from SippyCup and/or With-Holder discussing innocent people dying and both/either of them ultimately dismissing them as collateral damage/’gotta-break-a-few-eggs’.

If such remarks exist and are ultimately made public, SippyCup knows that his ambition to run for President in 2016, 2020, etc. is destroyed. Yes, he is that arrogant & power-mad.

Thanks, 52%, for heaping this despicable bastard on us all just so that you could “feel good about making ‘history’”.

SnarkySam on June 24, 2012 at 11:26 AM

Agree. Little Bammie seems willing to go to the wall over something that his base would cheer him for. There must be something in those communications extremely damning, like as you say, the cheering of a death toll. I expect that the words “they are only Mexicans” were used.

slickwillie2001 on June 24, 2012 at 11:37 AM

These guys were willing, nay, hoping to see some deaths occur to get public support for further anti-gun legislation. That’s sick.

Durka-Durka on June 24, 2012 at 11:19 AM

People HAD to die to make F & F “work”. The whole ‘we’re trying to see where the guns go & arrest bad people’ meme doesn’t hold water at all. There was no attempt to track the guns, they were allowed to walk. The only way any ‘play’ could be gotten out of this operation was if people died and they could then point back at the F & F guns. You can’t convince me that an ATF office thought this up …. this had to come from the highest levels …. there’s a national interest here in disarming the American public by hook, crook, or murder …. and murder it is. Hispanics & Americans should be outraged over the deaths in Mexico and the deaths of Terry & Zapata (who had interdicted F&F guns & submitted an ROI – so why was he killed again?). There is no doubt in my mind that if the F & F operation hadn’t been ‘blown’, Americans other than Border Patrol & ICE would have died by F & F guns …. according to the plan.

MissMagnolia on June 24, 2012 at 11:37 AM

Somebody needs to do a fact check on that PMSNBC article, 30K gun deaths seems quite high as does that “only 3% of the problem crossing the border” statement. Of course the “Begun under Bush” lie has been debunked multiple times.

Problem is that the low information voters who rely on the MSM propaganda machine for their “news” are going to take this disinformation as fact.

AZfederalist on June 24, 2012 at 11:38 AM

It was not botched, as many have said, unless the “botched” is because they got caught.

ORconservative on June 24, 2012 at 11:36 AM

Well, considering it was suppose to “Fly under the Radar” yea, getting caught does amount to the operation being botched.

SWalker on June 24, 2012 at 11:38 AM

I wonder if there is any number of guns that can be traced to F&F that have ended up here in the US involved in crimes? I bet there have been and are some of those guns here now? Could it be that some of the cities giving cash for guns people turn in, they are looking for serial numbers of F&F guns to get those destroyed as fast as possible?
L

letget on June 24, 2012 at 11:40 AM

The Brady Campaign contends that the “Fast and Furious” program involved about 2,000 firearms crossing the border into Mexico, about 3 percent of the guns moving from U.S. gun shops to Mexico in the last four years. The center’s Denis Henigan wants House Republicans, the ones chasing Eric Holder, to focus instead upon the other 97 percent of those guns.

That is of course the question.If its a lie, which it is,that 90% of the guns come from the US, than where do they come from?the link below offers a very reasonable explanation.

http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20110209-mexicos-gun-supply-and-90-percent-myth

It’s perfectly rational to believe that at least some of the guns,especially the big heavy arsenals come from the same gangs supplying the Mexican cartel with drugs.
This means South and central America along with guns purchased all over the world from drug producers smuggled into third countries and then into mexico with the drug shipments. Very logical.
If you have a restaurant and are buying hamburger meat from a vendor and he says hey I got steak too,you might check it out.

rodguy911 on June 24, 2012 at 11:41 AM

Maybe the most important Afterburner yet. Same conclusion posted at Moonbattery: Fast & Furious Motive Becomes More Obvious:

No wonder Obama is willing to resort to the extremely desperate measure of inappropriately exerting executive privilege to keep F&F documents from becoming public. If they confirm that he explicitly approved providing weapons to foreign drug cartels so that he could use the inevitably ensuing bloodshed to undermine the Constitution he is sworn to uphold, he should be tried for treason.

Bill Whittle’s “Follow the Ideology” has been all over Twitter. It hits hard and it’s gonna leave a mark.

Now, as Breitbart.com says, it’s Time For Super PACs to Tell the Truth About Fast & Furious :

Forget about the media. No amount of shaming will ever convince those moral illiterates to tell the full and complete story of Fast and Furious. If you think Brian Williams and those who staff every other newsroom in this country went to journalism school to hold power accountable and inform the public, think again. They entered media for one purpose and one purpose only: to defeat the right and to further the leftist cause.

petefrt on June 24, 2012 at 11:41 AM

I have no idea, but I do know that you guys come up with really cool names for your fake scandals.

crr6 on July 10, 2011 at 1:24 PM

Del Dolemonte on June 24, 2012 at 11:41 AM

Brian Terry was not the ONLY person killed with these guns. There’s at least 300 Mexican citizens that were also killed by the US Government’s illegal actions which caused harm on the soil of one of our allies.

katablog.com on June 24, 2012 at 11:11 AM

The problem with the 300 is that it’s just a data point. We need names and details of the crimes. The proggies can brush this off as “probably drug dealers” that no one will miss. That’s not the case; many of them were small-town police and sheriffs, and innocent bystanders.

We need to know more about the 300. I want to see interviews with their crying families on TV. They should be suing the US government over the needless deaths.

slickwillie2001 on June 24, 2012 at 11:41 AM

The flying Monkey Media defenders of Holder and Obama on F&F have a have one of these two things in common: Willful ignorance or outright mendacity.

They are desperate, because the narrative is no longer within their control. It is disintegrating as more and more people escape the Cone Of Ignorance the FMM has tried to impose on Fast & Furious.

No matter how they try to minimize and equivocate, more and more people are going to understand that we have to get to the bottom of it.

They can’t stop the rain falling.

novaculus on June 24, 2012 at 11:37 AM

Flying Monkey Media, absolutely not. that would imply mere partisan incompetence on the part of the Media. Fifth Column Treasonous Media is the correct etymology, it’s not hyperbolic rhetoric, it’s a straight forward description of their actions and intentions.

SWalker on June 24, 2012 at 11:43 AM

I have not yet seen anyone point out, as far as Obama’s claim of Executive Privilege goes, is that he has no right to claim it in this instance for the following reasons:

1) There is NO Department of Justice or office of Attorney General provided for (or even mentioned) the Constitution.

2.) The Department of Justice and the office of U.S. Attorney General were CREATED AND FUNDED BY CONGRESS, not the president. Therefore congress has a clear right to oversee the department they created and paid for. This would include access to any and all documents within that department.

3.) As far as Holder and D.O.J., I do not see how the president has the power to prevent congress access to documents over which the president should have no legal jurisdiction.

Hoof Hearted on June 24, 2012 at 11:44 AM

The phrases ‘Botched’ or “failed gun-running sting” imply failure of the scam.

Make no mistake – Gunwalkergate worked exactly as intended.

It gave the Disarm the law abiding crowd a pretext for gun registration – Demand letter three.

Chip on June 24, 2012 at 11:44 AM

It gave the Disarm the law abiding crowd a pretext for gun registration – Demand letter three.

Chip on June 24, 2012 at 11:44 AM

And they would have gotten away with it to if it weren’t for those damned meddling bloggers…

SWalker on June 24, 2012 at 11:46 AM

They held holder in Contempt for lying to congress and refusing to tell them how that lie was conceived. Everyone is missing the point. The contempt charge has nothing to do with F&F, but the coverup that followed it.

Mord on June 24, 2012 at 11:11 AM

Right. Just like Bill Clinton’s prosecution was “all about sex.” Remember that?

gryphon202 on June 24, 2012 at 11:46 AM

If it were my son or any of my grandsons, I’d be standing outside the WH day and night, holding a sign and demanding justice.

GrannyDee on June 24, 2012 at 11:32 AM

Thank you for reminding me to once again post this.

Fast and Furious Protest scheduled for the White House’s North Lawn

Flora Duh on June 24, 2012 at 11:47 AM

So long as they keep claiming this operation started under Bush and ended under Obama, they think they have an argument.

No one has a problem with an operation aimed at catching criminals in the act. No one’s railing about cops posing as dealers or prostitutes. But when the government is actually selling drugs and letting people use them, it’s a bit more than a botched operation. It’s criminal.

Agents are testifying that they were ordered to let these guns walk. Yes, that’s news. Only a partisan would think otherwise. And I would say the same thing if Bush had done it.

Esthier on June 24, 2012 at 11:48 AM

But, alas, conservatives and House Republicans are good at ginning up outrage and their target is the Fast and Furious program, an attempt begun under the Bush administration to track illegal guns as they made their way through the hands of Mexican drug traffickers. … And so, that’s why promoting this implausible conspiracy theory about a secret plot to make gun owners look bad by giving guns to Mexican traffickers is so important to the right and the NRA. – Chris Hayes

We must be living on a different planet.
Either that or he is just plain delusional.
UFB
~(Ä)~

Karl Magnus on June 24, 2012 at 11:49 AM

Janet “Barbecue” Reno wonders what all the fuss is about.

viking01 on June 24, 2012 at 11:49 AM

In April, 2010 a licensed gun dealer cooperating with ATF was increasingly concerned about selling so many guns. “We just want to make sure we are cooperating with ATF and that we are not viewed as selling to the bad guys,” writes the gun dealer to ATF Phoenix officials, “(W)e were hoping to put together something like a letter of understanding to alleviate concerns of some type of recourse against us down the road for selling these items.” …

Two months later, the same gun dealer grew more agitated.

“I wanted to make sure that none of the firearms that were sold per our conversation with you and various ATF agents could or would ever end up south of the border or in the hands of the bad guys. I guess I am looking for a bit of reassurance that the guns are not getting south or in the wrong hands… I want to help ATF with its investigation but not at the risk of agents (sic) safety because I have some very close friends that are US Border Patrol agents in southern AZ as well as my concern for all the agents (sic) safety that protect our country.”

“It’s like ATF created or added to the problem so they could be the solution to it and pat themselves on the back,” says one law enforcement source familiar with the facts. “It’s a circular way of thinking.

ted c on June 24, 2012 at 11:50 AM

It gave the Disarm the law abiding crowd a pretext for gun registration – Demand letter three.
Chip on June 24, 2012 at 11:44 AM

And they would have gotten away with it to if it weren’t for those damned meddling bloggers…

SWalker on June 24, 2012 at 11:46 AM

Yes, and they like to pretend that the regimes isn’t doing exactly what it’s doing:

Since there is no actual case that the President wants to crush gun-rights, they have to make one.

Documents: ATF used “Fast and Furious” to make the case for gun regulations

On July 14, 2010 after ATF headquarters in Washington D.C. received an update on Fast and Furious, ATF Field Ops Assistant Director Mark Chait emailed Bill Newell, ATF’s Phoenix Special Agent in Charge of Fast and Furious:

“Bill – can you see if these guns were all purchased from the same (licensed gun dealer) and at one time. We are looking at anecdotal cases to support a demand letter on long gun multiple sales. Thanks.”

Chip on June 24, 2012 at 11:52 AM

The problem with the 300 is that it’s just a data point. We need names and details of the crimes. The proggies can brush this off as “probably drug dealers” that no one will miss. That’s not the case; many of them were small-town police and sheriffs, and innocent bystanders.

We need to know more about the 300. I want to see interviews with their crying families on TV. They should be suing the US government over the needless deaths.

slickwillie2001 on June 24, 2012 at 11:41 AM

U.S. AK-47s linked to Mexican attorney’s slaying

A congressional investigation into a controversial federal gun-running surveillance operation is moving to Mexico this week amid new reports that two AK-47s sold in Arizona during the operation were found at the scene of a shootout with the suspected killers of a well-known Mexican attorney.

According to testimony provided to investigators with the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, the two guns were sold to a straw buyer watched by agents of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, who were under orders not to stop the guns from crossing the border. The ATF surveillance program, called Operation Fast and Furious, was supposed to lead to the arrests of high-level drug cartel figures.

The two guns were subsequently linked to the suspects in the torture and killing of Mario Gonzalez Rodriguez, the brother of Patricia Gonzalez Rodriguez, who was then attorney general of the Mexican state of Chihuahua.

Flora Duh on June 24, 2012 at 11:53 AM

Janet “Barbecue” Reno wonders what all the fuss is about.

viking01 on June 24, 2012 at 11:49 AM

Actually I honestly think that Janet “Barbecue” Reno has, as a result of Fast and Furious, had a religious experience. As in, she wakes up every day, gets down on her knees and thanks God that Operation “Fast and Furious” didn’t happen while she was AG.

SWalker on June 24, 2012 at 11:53 AM

“I don’t understand all of this anti- gun possession nonsense. This was a devious and deliberate attempt by the GOP to keep minorities from voting. Am I the only smart person in the room?”

- Nancy Pelosi

fogw on June 24, 2012 at 11:32 AM

Maybe Botox Beauty Nan missed out on those briefings too, just like her lack of knowledge of waterboarding briefings.

Hey – when did Don’t Ask- Don’t Tell come back into play ?

FlaMurph on June 24, 2012 at 11:53 AM

Funny how the big issue in the Bush Administration was firing political appointees. The left railed about it for months, and held the Attorney General in contempt. These guys all probably got higher-paying jobs at CAP or some other Soros-funded law firm.

In F&F, hundreds of brown people were killed with evil weapons purposefully shuttled into the hands of drug cartels – the same people who supply the drugs that infect our poor and downtrodden inner-city democrats – and Democrats and their media allies excuse it all as one dead white guy not really worth talking about.

BKeyser on June 24, 2012 at 11:56 AM

Thank you for reminding me to once again post this.

Fast and Furious Protest scheduled for the White House’s North Lawn

Flora Duh on June 24, 2012 at 11:47 AM

I wish I could be there. Is there a site to send $ to help with the cause?

VegasRick on June 24, 2012 at 11:56 AM

And so, that’s why promoting this implausible conspiracy theory about a secret plot to make gun owners look bad by giving guns to Mexican traffickers is so important to the right and the NRA. It’s why they’ve been flogging Fast and Furious and why the NRA scored the vote on contempt. Since there is no actual case that the President wants to crush gun-rights, they have to make one.Because this is post-truth politics.

Counting Mexico’s Guns
April 17, 2009
Updated: April 22, 2009President Obama says 90 percent of Mexico’s recovered crime guns come from the U.S. That’s not what the statistics show.

unseen on June 24, 2012 at 11:56 AM

NO. They are not ‘missing the point’…

They’re attempting to shovel dirt onto a whopping pile of lies, schemes, and bodies.

I am not cutting any slack for anyone defending this vile scheme.

Not now, not ever.

Nixon is a Saint compared to the current creature lurking the White House.

CPT. Charles on June 24, 2012 at 11:58 AM

I wish I could be there. Is there a site to send $ to help with the cause?

VegasRick on June 24, 2012 at 11:56 AM

I don’t know, you’d have to contact the person in charge of that Facebook page.

Flora Duh on June 24, 2012 at 11:59 AM

Since there is no actual case that the President wants to crush gun-rights

Has every Lib missed the point—the docs. will clearly reveal whose side is right! Does one not think if the docs. unequivocally showed the Libtards were on the correct side of justice, that they would have not revealed them to us by now and rubbed it in our face????

Infuriating.

hillsoftx on June 24, 2012 at 12:00 PM

None of this rancor excuses the poor judgment — across two administrations — which generated the program itself. And none of it justifies the burgeoning political battle over the scope of the documents the Republicans want Holder to hand over.

If this was just “poor judgment — across two administrations”, then why not release all the information? After all, it would be very hard for Republicans to condemn Holder and Obama for something that was only a continuation of a Bush program. In fact, Obama could easily turn the whole thing around on the GOP. He wont, because the assertion is a proven lie.

Instead, Obama invokes executive privilege and creates a political sh*tstorm just to hide documents involving a mere exercise of “poor judgment — across two administrations?” And why has Holder been lying to, and stonewalling congress all this time if he could have disposed of this issue long ago, and not have it blow up during the election?

So the left wants us to believe two things: Fast and Furious is a big Nothing Burger but is serious enough for a constitutional showdown.

RadClown on June 24, 2012 at 12:00 PM

That is of course the question.If its a lie, which it is,that 90% of the guns come from the US, than where do they come from?the link below offers a very reasonable explanation.

http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20110209-mexicos-gun-supply-and-90-percent-myth

rodguy911 on June 24, 2012 at 11:41 AM

The ’90%’ is a propaganga point that was debunked long before F&F broke, including in HA threads. The liberals want us to believe that ’90% of the guns recovered in Mexican crimes came from the USA’. What the 90% really represents is the proportion of guns [recovered at Mexican crime scenes] + [Mexican authorities examine gun and suspect that it came from the USA because of labeling and S/N] + [sent to US authorities and confirmed as of USA origin].

90% represents nothing more than the ‘correct guess rate’ of Mexican authorities as to US origin of a weapon. Of ALL the weapons recovered at Mexican crime scenes how many are confirmed as coming from the USA? Mexico has not shared that information.

We also legally ship many military weapons to Mexico, sent by the US government in assistance to the Mexican military and police forces. Mexico is so corrupt that many of these leak into the criminal element. When we measure ‘US guns used in Mexican crime’ how many of them were legitimately exported? The US government won’t tell us.

Mexican armed forces and police forces also legitimately import weapons from other countries just as the USA does. These of course are also stolen or sold to criminals.

slickwillie2001 on June 24, 2012 at 12:01 PM

Did Obama even claim EP? Last I heard, there was a letter from DOJ saying that he was going to do it, but I haven’t seen anything about him actually doing it. He also has to list all documents he is claiming privilege on, which also has not been provided.

I’m listening to a replay of the meeting held before the contempt vote, and there is some democrat complaining that the previous attorney general has not been called before the committee. At that point last week, it had already been disclosed that Holder had retracted his statement that the former attorney general had any knowledge of the thing. I think they think if they just throw out enough words, people will get confused and give up on the whole thing.

Night Owl on June 24, 2012 at 12:03 PM

Sorry Obama/Holder apologists, the gig is up when even Reuters is admitting ‪Fast and Furious‬ is a “scandal.”

Flora Duh on June 24, 2012 at 12:03 PM

In recent weeks, efforts by the United States and Mexico to stop the illegal transfer of guns and drugs along their shared border have been on the front burner. U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder and Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano traveled to Mexico earlier this month to meet with their Mexican counterparts to discuss what can be done. And this week President Barack Obama traveled down south to continue talks between the two nations.

During a joint press conference with President Felipe Calderón of Mexico, Obama said of the raging violence by Mexican drug gangs:

Obama, April 16: A demand for these drugs in the United States is what is helping to keep these cartels in business. This war is being waged with guns purchased not here, but in the United States. More than 90 percent of the guns recovered in Mexico come from the United States, many from gun shops that line our shared border.
Obama would have been correct to say that 90 percent of the guns submitted for tracing by Mexican authorities were then traced to the U.S. The percentage of all recovered guns that came from the U.S. is unknown.

The 90% Claim

The president isn’t the first to make this mistaken claim; far from it. During an interview on CBS’ “Early Show” on March 26, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said: “We have to recognize and accept that the demand for drugs from the United States drives them north, and the guns that are used by the drug cartels against the police and the military, 90 percent of them come from America.”

The 90 percent figure was similarly cited by Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.) and Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) during a March 17 congressional hearing on the subject. Durbin said: “According to ATF [the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives], more than 90 percent of the guns seized after raids or shootings in Mexico have been traced right here to the United States of America.” Feinstein added: “It is unacceptable to have 90 percent of the guns that are picked up in Mexico used to shoot judges, police officers, mayors, kidnap innocent people and do terrible things come from the United States, and I think we must put a stop to that.”

And it’s been reported by a phalanx of news organizations, including the Christian Science Monitor, the New York Times, NBC and the Chicago Tribune, that 90 percent of Mexico’s recovered guns come from the U.S.

Mexican authorities have made the same error: On CBS’ “Face the Nation” on April 12, Mexican Ambassador Arturo Sarukhan said: “Ninety percent of all weapons we are seizing in Mexico, Bob, are coming from across the United States.”

Most who have used the statistic attribute it to ATF. Others attribute the figure to officials within the Mexican government. But that’s not correct.

Without A “Trace”

In a joint statement presented to the Senate Judiciary Committee’s Subcommittee on Crimes and Drugs, ATF Assistant Director for Field Operations William Hoover and Anthony Placido, assistant administrator of intelligence with the Drug Enforcement Administration, clarified that the 90 percent figure is true of guns that were submitted and could be traced:

Hoover and Placido, March 17, 2009: Firearms are routinely being transported from the U.S. into Mexico in violation of both U.S. and Mexican law. In fact, according to ATF’s National Tracing Center, 90 percent of the weapons that could be traced were determined to have originated from various sources within the U.S.

And Mexico recovers a lot more guns than it submits to the U.S. In December 2008, Mexican Attorney General Eduardo Medina Mora put the number of recovered crime weapons in the country over the past two years at nearly 29,000, according to USA Today. And figures given by ATF make clear that the agency doesn’t trace nearly all of those.

According to ATF, Mexico submitted 7,743 firearms for tracing in fiscal year 2008 (which ended Oct. 1) and 3,312 guns in fiscal 2007. That adds up to a fraction of the two-year total given by Mexico’s attorney general. He may be referring to a slightly different 24-month period, but that can’t account for more than a part of the discrepancy. The number is growing, and already this year, Mexico has submitted more than 7,500 guns for tracing, according to ATF. But even if all those guns are added in, the total submitted for tracing since the start of fiscal 2007 doesn’t come close to the 29,000 figure that Mexico says it has recovered.

The Myth of 17 Percent

According to a Fox News report, titled “The Myth of 90 Percent,” only “17 percent of guns found at Mexican crime scenes have been traced to the U.S.” But the 17 percent figure is a myth, too. The reporters made some mistaken assumptions about how many guns had actually been traced to U.S. sources.

Fox News reporters William La Jeunesse and Maxim Lott note, quite correctly, that Mexico doesn’t submit all the guns it recovers to the U.S. for tracing. Furthermore, Fox News reported, this is “because it is obvious from their markings that they do not come from the U.S.” And it quoted a law enforcement official as to why:

Fox News, April 2: “Not every weapon seized in Mexico has a serial number on it that would make it traceable, and the U.S. effort to trace weapons really only extends to weapons that have been in the U.S. market,” Matt Allen, special agent of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), told FOX News.

If that’s true, then the guns given to ATF for tracing constitute a badly biased sample of all crime guns seized in Mexico. But the ATF officials we contacted don’t confirm that. What an ATF spokesperson would say is that the agency could trace more than 90 percent of all the guns submitted by Mexico to the U.S. – they either originated in this country or were imported here before heading south.

However that may be, the Fox figure of 17 percent is based on a misreading of some confusing House subcommittee testimony by ATF official William Newell. The Fox reporters come up with a figure of 5,114 guns traced to U.S. sources in fiscal 2007 and 2008. That figures to 17.6 percent of the 29,000 figure for guns seized in Mexico, as given by the country’s attorney general.

The 5,114 figure is simply wrong. What Newell said quite clearly is that the number of guns submitted to ATF in those two years was 11,055: “3,312 in FY 2007 [and] 7,743 in FY 2008.” Newell also testified, as other ATF officials have done, that 90 percent of the guns traced were determined to have come from the U.S. So based on Newell’s testimony, the Fox reporters should have used a figure of 9,950 guns from U.S. sources. That figures out to just over 34 percent of guns recovered, assuming that the 29,000 figure supplied by Mexico’s attorney general is correct.

Even that number is too low. At our request, an ATF spokesman gave us more detailed figures for how many guns had been submitted and traced during those two years. Of the guns seized in Mexico and given to ATF for tracing, the agency actually found 95 percent came from U.S. sources in fiscal 2007 and 93 percent in fiscal 2008. That comes to a total of 10,347 guns from U.S. sources for those two years, or 36 percent of what Mexican authorities say they recovered.

The mistake the Fox News reporters made was to focus on some numbers given by Newell and Hoover in separate testimony, regarding numbers of guns traced to specific states. But not all guns traced to the U.S. can be traced to specific states. The Fox numbers are “a subset” of the actual total traced to U.S. sources, one official said.

An Elusive Number

Given the lack of hard data from Mexico, we can’t calculate a precise figure for what portion of crime guns have been traced to the U.S.Based on the best evidence we can find so far, we conclude that the 90 percent claim made by the president and others in his administration lacks a basis in solid fact. But we also conclude that the number is at least double what Fox News has reported, based on its reporters’ mistaken interpretation of ATF testimony.

Whether the number is 90 percent, or 36 percent, or something else, there’s no dispute that thousands of guns are being illegalIy transported into Mexico by way of the United States each year.

— by D’Angelo Gore

SO in EARLY 2009 This was the case:

Given the lack of hard data from Mexico, we can’t calculate a precise figure for what portion of crime guns have been traced to the U.S.

Obama was found to have lied about the % of guns. So guess what F&F was borned to prove Obama was right. And why was it important to prove the 90% number to curtail our gun rights. This isn’t hard to understand.

unseen on June 24, 2012 at 12:04 PM

How is “blame Bush” said in French?

ericdijon on June 24, 2012 at 12:04 PM

The problem with the 300 is that it’s just a data point. We need names and details of the crimes. The proggies can brush this off as “probably drug dealers” that no one will miss. That’s not the case; many of them were small-town police and sheriffs, and innocent bystanders.

We need to know more about the 300. I want to see interviews with their crying families on TV. They should be suing the US government over the needless deaths.

slickwillie2001 on June 24, 2012 at 11:41 AM

Yes slick. Outside of Our BOE’s Brian Terry and Jaime Zapata, those 300 aren’t just numbers..they are human beings-and our Govt assisted in this massacre.

Since Flora is the news connection, am I wrong here or is Mexico pretty quiet about this? They dont even Effing care?

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 12:04 PM

Why don’t we just send our media over to an official dictatorship? They have no problem “covering” this story.

aryeung on June 24, 2012 at 12:05 PM

Nixon is a Saint compared to the current creature lurking the White House.

CPT. Charles on June 24, 2012 at 11:58 AM

Yup, Nixon’s only sin or crime during the Watergate scandal, was trying to protect the people who worked for him, who had committed the minor crime of burglary. Obama and his advisers, Valarie Jarret no doubt, along with Erick Holder plotted and carried out the murders of hundreds of Mexican citizens and two American Law Enforcement Officials. They then engaged in criminal acts to conceal their culpability from duly authorized investigative officials.

SWalker on June 24, 2012 at 12:07 PM

petefrt on June 24, 2012 at 11:35 AM

Thank you. We have this same problem with the HHS mandate on the Catholic church. Liberals are running around saying “catholics want to ban contraceptives!!!11!”.

Even if they wanted to, they couldn’t. The argument is about religious Liberty, not contraceptives.

Mord on June 24, 2012 at 12:08 PM

Funny, Obama and Holder now Trayvon Martins name..his death mattered but the death and blood running through our streets every night in this country is ignored and they can’t even utter the name of A Federal Border Control Agent who was shot dead by weapons we supplied to a brutal blood thirsty drug cartel.

Just sick.

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 12:08 PM

It’s hilarious that Leftist Hack Partisan Andrew Cohen is bad-mouthing the story that his own network broke.

Even more hilarious? Some of the shrill squealing in the Atlantic Comments.

Like this highly educated exchange:

again, for the millionth time, THIS PROGRAM STARTED UNDER BUSH.

No, it didn’t. A similar program started under Bush, but it was not the same in either scope or details of operation. You are lying.

Nope. Started under Bush. Plain and simple.

Gun laws shaped mostly by the NRA and it’s lap dog the GOP have killed thousands in this country annually and tens of thousands in mexico.

Would you please tell me who’s gone to jail over the lies told to support the military action against Iraq? Because, for some reason, I just can’t remember a single name.

Minds are terrible things to waste…

Del Dolemonte on June 24, 2012 at 12:08 PM

SWalker on June 24, 2012 at 11:53 AM

I certainly hope Reno is praying. I don’t think many would want 80 civilian “kills” as their legacy much less one.

viking01 on June 24, 2012 at 12:10 PM

Since Flora is the news connection, am I wrong here or is Mexico pretty quiet about this? They dont even Effing care?

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 12:04 PM

No, that would be incorrect, this is just one more incident of the Fifth Column Treasonous Media attempting to deceive the American people regarding the scope of the “Fast and Furious” scandal. As I understand it, Mexico’s Attorney General has filed suit against the United States over “Fast and Furious”.

SWalker on June 24, 2012 at 12:11 PM

Since Flora is the news connection, am I wrong here or is Mexico pretty quiet about this? They dont even Effing care?

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 12:04 PM

Hi bazil, missed you last night on QOTD.

Mexican attorney general: “Obama more involved in Fast & Furious than admitted!”

Mexican president scatters blame far and wide for ‘Fast and Furious’ mistakes

Flora Duh on June 24, 2012 at 12:11 PM

Don’t forget the outright HYPOCRISY of the ATF now requiring the reporting of multiple long gun sales in states abutting the border with Mexico. This new “requirement” – WITHOUT ANY STATUTORY AUTHORITY – was put in place DUE TO THE MULTIPLE ILLEGAL LONG GUN SALES MADE BY THE GOVERNMENT UNDER F&F!

Who says you can’t have your cake and eat it to?

GarandFan on June 24, 2012 at 12:11 PM

As late as 2010 the MSM was using the numbers supplied by F&F to push antigun laws

Are U.S. arms manufacturers and dealers making money by supplying the weapons used in the drug violence that is costing thousands of lives in Mexico?

A new report may give more ammunition to those who say, yes.

About 70 percent of the guns seized in Mexico and submitted to a U.S. gun-tracing program came from the United States, according to a report released by three U.S. senators Monday.

Of the 29,284 firearms recovered by authorities in Mexico in 2009 and 2010, 20,504 came from the United States, according to figures provided to the senators by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives(ATF)…..

….On Saturday, in a speech to the Mexican-American community in San Jose, California, President Felipe Calderón lashed out at the U.S. weapons industry.

“I accuse the U.S. weapons industry of (responsibility for) the deaths of thousands of people that are occurring in Mexico,” Calderón said. “It is for profit, for the profits that it makes for the weapons industry.”

The report, issued by Sen. Dianne Feinstein of California and two other senators, recommended background checks for sales at gun shows, a ban on the import of nonsporting weapons and the reinstatement of the assault weapons ban in force in the United States until 2004.

Read more: http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2011/06/14/70-pct-guns-weapons-arms-seized-in-mexico-from-us-report-says/#ixzz1yjB7Vd3T

So what we have here. Is the OBama admin setting the condititions of ATF running guns then tracing those guns back to the USA AFTER they commit a crime in MEXICO then making a report on those guns that were “walked” into Mexico by the ATF to push antigun law by 3 dem senators.

All this occured AFTER OBama visted Mexico in 2009 and talked with the President of MEXICO. and made up a figure of 90%

unseen on June 24, 2012 at 12:13 PM

Who says you can’t have your cake and eat it to?

GarandFan on June 24, 2012 at 12:11 PM

Yea, but who want’s to have their cake and eat it to, when the cake in question is a seven layer feces cake?

SWalker on June 24, 2012 at 12:14 PM

ahhhhh, yes Janet Reno and Eric Holder……

who threw Elian Gonzalez back to Havana to Fidel to waste away his life as a Communist pawn of the old Cuban goat.

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2011/12/07/elian-gonzalez-turns-18-in-cuba/

Remember this picture?

PappyD61 on June 24, 2012 at 12:14 PM

Thank you Flora and Walker-

I havent seen a lot on Mexico’s response or a lot of time to follow.

Can you image if it had been reversed and done to us?

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 12:15 PM

I believe Barak Obama (Barry Soetoro) and Eric Holder committed felonies in walking guns to Mexico criminals which resulted in their accessory to murder of over 300 people in the express purpose of ginning up support for new gun control laws subverting the 2nd amendment.

Once caught, I believe Eric Holder began the coverup to protect himself and Obama and the shredding began, hence now obstructing justice. Holder then perjured himself many times before congress.

This is an OUTRAGE and the state run media is complicit in the coverup.

Any republican president would have been impeached or at least resigned by now and the AG would be behind bars.

Robert Jensen on June 24, 2012 at 12:17 PM

Can you image if it had been reversed and done to us?

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 12:15 PM

Hmmm, can you say… The entire 5th ID lined up on the Mexican Border?? Yea, I knew you could… ;p

SWalker on June 24, 2012 at 12:17 PM

Granting for the sake of argument that Fast and Furious was an extension of Wide Receiver and identical with it, how does that justify the actual program? At most, it makes Bush guilty, too, and the refusal of the Republicans to investigate him as well makes them hypocrites. But it doesn’t change a thing with regards to this administration’s responsibility.

PersonFromPorlock on June 24, 2012 at 12:18 PM

Brian Terry was not the ONLY person killed with these guns. There’s at least 300 Mexican citizens that were also killed by the US Government’s illegal actions which caused harm on the soil of one of our allies.

Eric Holder responds, “Mexicans, schmexicans”.

Mason on June 24, 2012 at 12:20 PM

Hmmm, can you say… The entire 5th ID lined up on the Mexican Border?? Yea, I knew you could… ;p

SWalker on June 24, 2012 at 12:17 PM

:)

My statement was more rhetorical.

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 12:20 PM

This is an OUTRAGE and the state run media is complicit in the coverup.

Any republican president would have been impeached or at least resigned by now and the AG would be behind bars.

Robert Jensen on June 24, 2012 at 12:17 PM

Complicit is right, so complicit in fact that the Names Brian Williams, Diane Sawyer, Andra Mitchell and Rachael Maddow should appear in a RICO warrant.

SWalker on June 24, 2012 at 12:20 PM

Can you image if it had been reversed and done to us?

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 12:15 PM

A declaration of war would be warranted.

I just came across this from Judicial Watch.

Any attempt to assert deliberative process privilege also won’t work because the courts don’t routinely deny efforts to shield internal government “deliberations” that may shed light on government misconduct.

The scandalous assertion of executive privilege necessarily draws President Obama into this scandal about the murder of a federal law enforcement agent and related Obama administration lies. As Speaker Boehner, who stalled the contempt vote for political reasons, said: “The decision to invoke executive privilege is an admission that White House officials were involved in decisions that misled the Congress and have covered up the truth.”

Of course, the question of the White House’s potential involvement in Fast and Furious has been at the center of Judicial Watch’s investigative efforts.

In fact, on June 6th, before these latest Fast and Furious developments, we filed a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) lawsuit with the Obama Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) seeking access to “Operation Fast and Furious” records detailing communications between ATF officials and Kevin O’Reilly, former Obama White House Director of North American Affairs at the U.S. National Security Council.

This is the third lawsuit filed against the Obama administration seeking records related to the Fast and Furious scandal. And here’s what we’re after this time pursuant to our original FOIA request submitted on July 22, 2011:

All records of communication between any official, officer or employee of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and Kevin M. O’Reilly, a current or former employee of the U.S. Department of State currently or previously serving as Director of North American Affairs at the U.S. National Security Council.

Why are we interested in this particular White House official?

As reported by CBS News, Fast and Furious documents released by the Obama White House in September 2011 “show extensive communications between then-ATF Special Agent in Charge of the Phoenix office Bill Newell – who led Fast and Furious – and then-White House National Security Staffer Kevin O’Reilly.”

These records included a flow-chart showing the ultimate destinations of the weapons released by the Obama administration. Newell had previously admitted during a congressional hearing that he had indeed shared information regarding the scandal with O’Reilly, but did not provide significant details regarding their discussions.

Rep. Darrell Issa and Sen. Grassley have repeatedly demanded that O’Reilly testify in the matter. Nevertheless, the White House has thus far refused to make O’Reilly, now reportedly stationed in Iraq in a new position with the Obama State Department, available for questioning.

The Obama administration has clammed up on Fast and Furious. We’re having trouble getting almost anything out of them. And this week’s contempt vote shows Congress is having no better luck. The American people deserve to know what White House officials knew and when they knew it. We will continue to fight to hold the Obama administration accountable to the rule of law.

Flora Duh on June 24, 2012 at 12:21 PM

Mason on June 24, 2012 at 12:20 PM

300 people..so far..and so far counted in the number.
I am sure there is more..and more to come.

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 12:21 PM

I have no idea, but I do know that you guys come up with really cool names for your fake scandals.

crr6 on July 10, 2011 at 1:24 PM

Del Dolemonte on June 24, 2012 at 11:41 AM

Kirsten Powers ALSO didn’t get it earlier today on Fox News Sunday… Brit Hume had to school her, but she was saying “La la la, I’m not listening…”

Khun Joe on June 24, 2012 at 12:22 PM

Washington’s ruined politics these days,

This line is getting very tired.

How is politics ruined exactly? This is displacement to distract from the SCOAMF Regime’s continued Fail. If this was just an honest if embarrassing mistake there would be no need for a coverup. But it does appear that the Federal Government deliberately broke Federal Law and that it was sanctioned by Principals in the Regime.

CorporatePiggy on June 24, 2012 at 12:23 PM

From savannahnow.com

Wide Receiver was a gun smuggling interdiction effort that involved Phoenix-based ATF agents working in conjunction with Mexican law enforcement. It was a Phoenix border operation only. They were trying to build a case against a violent group of Mexican drug smugglers and the Mexican drug cartel to discover who they were and where they could be found. Wide Receiver began in 2005, involved 400 weapons, and all the weapons had RFID trackers installed in them. The Mexican government was informed and actively involved. The program was ended in 2007 when the drug dealers discovered the trackers that had been installed. No lives were lost.

Fast and Furious was begun in 2009 by the Obama administration and was an unconstitutional effort to build a case against American gun dealers, American private gun owners, and the Second Amendment. The Mexican government wasn’t involved in Fast and Furious. Over 300 people were killed, including two Americans. Wide Receiver no longer existed; it had been shut down for two years. Fast and Furious involved over 2,000 guns. The Obama regime didn’t care where the weapons ended up. There were no tracking devices and no effort was made to track them. No helicopters. There was no on-the-ground surveillance of the straw purchasers. The guns were sold and then walked across the border, and that was it. Four federal agencies were involved in maybe as many as 10 cities in five states. Fast and Furious was Obama’s effort to gain false information so he could use the information to introduce his gun control bill. Obama and Holder are tyrants. Twice said and twice true. (Ransomed Tyrant 06/24/12 – 09:18 am)

GrannyDee on June 24, 2012 at 12:23 PM

A declaration of war would be warranted.

uh huh.

Flora Duh on June 24, 2012 at 12:21 PM

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 12:24 PM

We will continue to fight to hold the Obama administration accountable to the rule of law.

Flora Duh on June 24, 2012 at 12:21 PM

How racist of them.
*dimbocraps

VegasRick on June 24, 2012 at 12:24 PM

We have this same problem with the HHS mandate on the Catholic church.

Mord on June 24, 2012 at 12:08 PM

Yep, it’s their SOP. If they can’t reframe the debate, they obfuscate the issues.

Can’t recall who posted this earlier, but after Bill Whittle’s Afterburner, it’s today’s red meat: Fast and Furious and OCDETF
Whom is executive privilege protecting?
By Andrew C. McCarthy, National Review Online. He says that what we already know makes it likely that Obama had actual knowledge of F&F well in advance of Brian Terry’s death and that exec priv was probably claimed

petefrt on June 24, 2012 at 12:25 PM

He says that what we already know makes it likely that Obama had actual knowledge of F&F well in advance of Brian Terry’s death and that exec priv was probably claimed

petefrt on June 24, 2012 at 12:25 PM

Of course he knew, he authorized it.

The Department of Justice reportedly is holding meetings discussing the White House’s options for enacting regulations on its own or through adjoining agencies and departments. “Administration officials said talk of executive orders or agency action are among a host of options that President Barack Obama and his advisers are considering. “

SWalker on June 24, 2012 at 12:28 PM

Obama to Seek New Assault Weapons Ban

By JASON RYAN (@JasonRyanABC)
WASHINGTON, Feb. 25, 2009The Obama administration will seek to reinstate the assault weapons ban that expired in 2004 during the Bush administration, Attorney General Eric Holder said today.

“As President Obama indicated during the campaign, there are just a few gun-related changes that we would like to make, and among them would be to reinstitute the ban on the sale of assault weapons,” Holder told reporters.

Holder said that putting the ban back in place would not only be a positive move by the United States, it would help cut down on the flow of guns going across the border into Mexico, which is struggling with heavy violence among drug cartels along the border.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=6960824&page=1

since DAY 1 of this administration a top goal of the Obama admin has been to reinsutute the ban on the sale of assault weapons. Holder has used the violence in Mexico as early as 2009 as a talking point to secure that ban. Obama then used an inflated figure of 90% he was openly called on this figure and then F and F was started to confirm make up these numbers so that the ATF could submit reports to gun control senators who would then use those reports to push for a new gun ban.

hmmm. nothing to see here folks nothing at all.

unseen on June 24, 2012 at 12:29 PM

Mord on June 24, 2012 at 12:08 PM

Screen froze up. Last sentence: He shows that what we already know makes it likely that Obama had actual knowledge of F&F well in advance of Brian Terry’s death and that Obama probably claimed exec priv more to protect himself than to protect Eric Holder.

petefrt on June 24, 2012 at 12:30 PM

Obama and Holder are tyrants. Twice said and twice true

Thx Granny dee-

I would add murders to the list. What happens when you give a group of organized crime and brutal killers weapons…people die.
Death is A Okay to accomplish their goal of gun control. They knew people-innocent people would be shot to death.
That makes you a murder, in my eyes. They may have just as well pulled the trigger themselves.

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 12:31 PM

During his confirmation hearing, Holder told the Senate Judiciary Committee about other gun control measures the Obama administration may consider.

“I think closing the gun show loophole, the banning of cop-killer bullets and I also think that making the assault weapons ban permanent, would be something that would be permitted under Heller,” Holder said

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=6960824&page=1

unseen on June 24, 2012 at 12:34 PM

If only there were another party with a presidential candidate who could hold the anti-gun zealots’ feet to the fire on this. Alas, we have two major parties with anti-gun zealots running for president.

besser tot als rot on June 24, 2012 at 11:11 AM

I don’t see President Romney running a fast and furious scam to try to make the 2nd Amendment look bad and then using executive privilege to cover it up.

LevinFan on June 24, 2012 at 12:37 PM

Of course he knew, he authorized it.

SWalker on June 24, 2012 at 12:28 PM

That’s my bet too. Obama and Holder are tight, like two peas in a pod. I imagine they communicate (through intermediaries, I hear) on most things of any significance. And, as McCarthy says, F&F was an OCDETF project and required approvals and supervision from the very top.

petefrt on June 24, 2012 at 12:37 PM

On an added note, thank you to every Border officer that risks their lives everyday and endures and see’s more then we will know-for our safety.

And as someone that grew up in a border state, God bless all of you that still do.

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 12:37 PM

besser tot als rot on June 24, 2012 at 11:14 AM

That is the problem. The EP only stands if Obama was involved, and Holder testified under Oath that he knew nothing about F&F. So either Holder lied, Obama lied or both. Obama has not yet lied under oath, but we’ll have to wait and see.

Mord on June 24, 2012 at 11:24 AM

EP does not apply in the commission of a crime, see Nixon, Richard M., US president 1969-1974.

Mini-14 on June 24, 2012 at 12:38 PM

Since Flora is the news connection, am I wrong here or is Mexico pretty quiet about this? They dont even Effing care?

bazil9 on June 24, 2012 at 12:04 PM

The typical case among the ’300′ would have been reported in Spanish-speaking print and electronic media, many only at the state or local level. To the Mexicans, the origin of the weapons used would not be a reportable data point, and even then only in followup weeks later. To them, where the weapon originated is not the heart of the story.

Who is in charge of reviewing Mexican media to determine what is worthy of translation? Mostly the 95% of US media that is liberal.

The data as to which weapons were traced via actual serial numbers is in the hands of Eric Holder. It could be 300, it could be 5,000. I don’t trust him and this is more information that Congress should be going after. We also depend on little Bammie’s government to tell us when these weapons cross back into the US and are used in crimes here. Again, I don’t trust them to report these crimes.

slickwillie2001 on June 24, 2012 at 12:41 PM

Comment pages: 1 2 3 4