Dems: At Bain, Romney was a “pioneer” in outsourcing jobs overseas

posted at 3:21 pm on June 22, 2012 by Erika Johnsen

Ughh. It sickens me that our country’s leaders are thusly engaged in such damaging, cheap populism.

The Washington Post just wheeled out a new report, detailing how “Romney’s Bain Capital invested in companies that moved jobs overseas.” Am I imagining it, or is anybody else detecting a gentle hint that we’re supposed to believe that this is necessarily a bad thing?

Mitt Romney’s financial company, Bain Capital, invested in a series of firms that specialized in relocating jobs done by American workers to new facilities in low-wage countries like China and India.

During the nearly 15 years that Romney was actively involved in running Bain, a private equity firm that he founded, it owned companies that were pioneers in the practice of shipping work from the United States to overseas call centers and factories making computer components, according to filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. …

But a Washington Post examination of securities filings shows the extent of Bain’s investment in firms that specialized in helping other companies move or expand operations overseas. While Bain was not the largest player in the outsourcing field, the private equity firm was involved early on, at a time when the departure of jobs from the United States was beginning to accelerate and new companies were emerging as handmaidens to this outflow of employment.

Cue the liberals’ various denunciations of the “vulture capitalism!”-ilk, and other such disgraceful, intellectually shallow talking points:

The campaign’s senior strategist David Axelrod blasted out an email with the Washington Post story, saying it exposed “breathtaking hypocrisy” by a candidate who frequently calls for the need to return American jobs to the United States. …

In a conference call with reporters Friday, Axelrod knocked Romney as an “outsourcer in chief” and asked whether the presumptive GOP nominee’s business experience is the kind of philosophy needed in the White House. He especially questioned Romney’s ability to “stand up to China” on trade.

“It’s particularly egregious when you try to repackage yourself as someone who’s going to be tough on countries that you sent jobs to,” Axelrod said on the call. He later described the report as a “significant moment in this campaign.”

Shaking my head, people — shaking my head.

First of all, when Romney talks about China, he isn’t denying companies’ rights to move their operations out of America if they so please. He’s talking about creating a level international playing field (and no, I don’t mean that like how President Obama uses it). Free trade is spectacular, but it doesn’t work when communist China is consistently doing things like manipulating their currency, pirating our technology, and other such highly nefarious endeavors.

Well, China has an interest in trade. China wants to, as they have 20 million people coming out of the farms and coming into the cities every year, they want to be able to put them to work. They wanna have access to global markets. And so we have right now something they need very badly, which is access to our market and our friends around the world, have that same– power over China. We– to make sure that we let them understand that in order for them to continue to have free and open access to the thing they want so badly, our markets, they have to play by the rules.

They can’t hack into our computer systems and steal from our government. They can’t steal from corporations. They can’t take patents and designs, intellectual property, and, and, and, and duplicate them, and duplicate them and counterfeit them and sell them around the world. And they also can’t manipulate their currency in such a way as to make their prices well below what they otherwise would be.

We have to have China understand that like everybody else on the world stage, they have to play by the rules. And if they do, we’ll have open trade with them and work with them. And they should in every way want to collaborate with us and not become a belligerent nation economically or militarily.

Secondly, if everybody on planet earth could just get the following through their heads so we can all move on and lead more productive lives, that would be great: When businesses find ways to do business less expensively, consumers win. Whether the business can offer their product more cheaply and consumers can then stretch their dollars further, or  if the business is able to then hire more workers and grow their operation — the economy is going to grow. Which, in turn, means that everybody wins. That’s the great thing about free trade: all transactions are voluntary and mutually beneficial. When businesses outsource, they cut costs, and people in other, poorer countries with fewer opportunities are able to find jobs and income.

Everything related to this whole “Buy America” fallacy is just awful — barring even greater costs such as threats to national security, why on earth would you do something more expensively than necessary? That’s not the way to help people — buying goods from where they are most cheaply and efficiently produced is the best way to make everyone wealthier. Prosperity is not a zero-sum game, and a busy, bustling global economic village is probably just about the only true route to world peace in existence.

This sort of populist rhetoric that perpetuates these types of economic myths sorely needs to end.


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The new anti American conservatives. I rest my case.

Uppereastside on June 22, 2012 at 3:53 PM

Freedom of choice is just so damned inconvenient for commie-libs.

SKYFOX on June 22, 2012 at 3:59 PM

let me add racist

Uppereastside on June 22, 2012 at 3:49 PM | Delete | Delete and Ban

I’m shocked. Shocked I tell you.

The first, last and only card you ever play.

*yawn*

John the Libertarian on June 22, 2012 at 3:59 PM

Garbage. So now authentic conservatism is defined by celebrating outsourcing? I don’t recall that as a Tea Party platform

It isn’t the TEA Party is about Federal SPENDING, try to keep your enemies straight, as Sun Tzu if you know neither yourself or your enemy you will suffer 100 defeats….so try to keep your enemy’s straight in your head. Out-sourcing, is on the whole, good, if it makes a company more competitive and raises share holder value. NOW, some outsourcing is unsuccessful because the company outsourcing did not examine the productivity of its out-sourced labour, and the exchange rates between the out-sourced labour and the home currency.

JFKY on June 22, 2012 at 3:59 PM

Its pretty hollow for Obama to be going after global capitalism what with Clinton having signed NAFTA, supported the WTO and Democrats and Republicans walking lock-stop with the whims of multi-nationals for years. But, I suppose, its good enough to have *someone* talking about the reality that the new globalism hasn’t really worked out for Americans. We pretended like if we helped to create new middle class markets overseas that they’d eventually buy our products. And they do! But none of those profits actually benefit American workers. Unless you count the super slow trickle down of the executives at those companies paying for yachts and stuff and hoping that those yachts and stuff are built here. Can multinational executives buy enough houses for their wealth to trickle down to the average American? Guess we’re gonna find out!

libfreeordie on June 22, 2012 at 3:54 PM

American’s haven’t profited from globalization? What did you type this on? How much did you pay for it?

gwelf on June 22, 2012 at 4:00 PM

The campaign’s senior strategist David Axelrod blasted out an email with the Washington Post story, saying it exposed “breathtaking hypocrisy” by a candidate who frequently calls for the need to return American jobs to the United States. …

uhhhhh.,…hey Axlerod…..speaking of “breathtaking hypocrisy”….
……you and your buddy President Downgrade need to take a look in the mirror when you are whining about “jobs going overseas”……..


Obama’s Public-Equity Record

The auto bailout makes Bain Capital look like an amateur on job losses and outsourcing.

Mr. Obama also shifted production—and jobs—overseas. As part of the administration’s restructuring, GM will increase production in China, Mexico South Korea and Japan—almost doubling the number of vehicles it makes in those countries, according to a confidential report by the company to Congress in May 2009 (obtained by the Detroit News). Many of those cars will be imported into the U.S.


Stimulus Jobs in China? Senators Angry About U.S. Money Going Overseas

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/obama-stimulus-money-spent-overseas/story?id=10002592#.T-TJIGZxGPI

An investigation by ABC News and the Investigative Reporting Workshop found that 79 percent of the program’s money has gone to foreign companies, money that Schumer said was “federal tax dollars, the stimulus, which was sold as jobs in America.”


OBAMA SENDS TAXPAYER
DOLLARS OVERSEAS – AGAIN

Reported by Robert P. Heslin, for ElectionDebates.com

At a time when the U.S. economy is failing and millions of Americans are out of work, the Obama administration has given an electric car company, Fisker Automotive, a $529 million federal loan guarantee which has not only NOT led to new American jobs, but instead resulted in a windfall of manufacturing jobs in Finland.

Billions of Dollars Spent on “Green Energy” Went to Jobs in Foreign Countries

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/danieldoherty/2012/04/26/afp_ad__billions_of_dollars_spent_on_green_energy_went_to_jobs_in_foreign_countries

$831 billion stimulus package was supposed to create thousands of American jobs at home, at least $34 billion was wasted – from Mexico to China – on risky investments abroad.

“American taxpayers are paying to send their own jobs to foreign countries,” the ad explains. “Tell President Obama American tax dollars should help American taxpayers.”


Obama Picks Jeffrey Immelt, GE CEO, To Run New Jobs-Focused Panel As GE Sends Jobs Overseas, Pays Little In Taxes

(via Huffington Post)

As the administration struggles to prod businesses to create jobs at home, GE has been busy sending them abroad. Since Immelt took over in 2001, GE has shed 34,000 jobs in the U.S., according to its most recent annual filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission. But it’s added 25,000 jobs overseas.

At the end of 2009, GE employed 36,000 more people abroad than it did in the U.S. In 2000,

Foreign work has proven lucrative to GE. In 2007, it derived half of its global sales from work abroad. In 2009, that share increased to 54 percent. U.S. sales have shrunk.

And rather than invest in the U.S., the company has decided to look elsewhere. In 2008 and 2009, GE decided to “indefinitely” reinvest prior-year earnings outside the country, according to SEC filings. That’s helped the firm lower its tax rate.

Hey Axlerod…..

“Breath taking hypocrisy”…………

Embrace the suck you political hack.

Baxter Greene on June 22, 2012 at 4:00 PM

Its pretty hilarious. Republican partisans will be like “OMG The President said something mean about corporations, well there goes hiring, American unemployment is here to stay and we are screwed.” But someone else points out that American unemployment has much more to do with Dem-Republican complicity with global trade and the response is “well thats the system, thems the breaks, oh well.” The imbalance of outrage would be hilarious if it wasn’t fricking scary.

libfreeordie on June 22, 2012 at 4:00 PM

I rest my case.

Uppereastside on June 22, 2012 at 3:53 PM

You can’t rest your case on bumper sticker logic. And I’ll bet you have an assinine COEXIST sticker too…

kirkill on June 22, 2012 at 4:00 PM

Fluke all of you who call anyone a “racist”.

You are the true racists by having such low expectations of the first black president.

MKL grieves for his fight and his land.

Schadenfreude on June 22, 2012 at 4:02 PM

Del your WaPo comments are exactly what we get in the Houston Comical. A couple of weeks ago they brought the guy that had been managing editor of the SanFran Chronicle to do the same here.

And of course the banning of anything the right of totally liberal are banned as is the longtime policy.

“Name withheld 12:21 PM on June 22, 2012
This comment was left by a user who has been blocked by our staff.”

That message runs throughout their comment threads. So pathetic.

DanMan on June 22, 2012 at 4:02 PM

Feel free to think that. You’ll still be wrong about my motives. =)

Stoic Patriot on June 22, 2012 at 3:56 PM

Motives? Is that like “good intentions”. You know, the thing the road to hell is paved with. Your motives are inside your head. your words were on the screen. To what else are we to respond?

SKYFOX on June 22, 2012 at 4:02 PM

We need to outsource government! A good place to start would be the IRS, about half of their staff could be outsourced to India.

Many other government functions could be outsourced internally, to US companies by bid. Divide up by states or regions to keep the packages to a size that can be handled.

As others point out, Governor Romney’s experience in hiring and firing, outsourcing, and reorganizing corporations is a feature, not a flaw.

slickwillie2001 on June 22, 2012 at 4:02 PM

Moron.

lostmotherland on June 22, 2012 at 3:37 PM

Trust me around here no need for you to self label. You’re very easy to spot.

Bmore on June 22, 2012 at 4:03 PM

lostmotherland, you have the perfect nom. YOU made her be lost.

Schadenfreude on June 22, 2012 at 4:03 PM

Axelrod and his comments about amending the Bill of Rights and putting the 1st amendment at stake………..

http://billmoyers.com/2012/06/18/the-president’s-never-ending-campaign-for-cash/

……or caring if Bain outsourced?

I’ll take preserving the first amendment, thank you.

PappyD61 on June 22, 2012 at 4:03 PM

It isn’t the TEA Party is about Federal SPENDING, try to keep your enemies straight, as Sun Tzu if you know neither yourself or your enemy you will suffer 100 defeats….so try to keep your enemy’s straight in your head. Out-sourcing, is on the whole, good, if it makes a company more competitive and raises share holder value. NOW, some outsourcing is unsuccessful because the company outsourcing did not examine the productivity of its out-sourced labour, and the exchange rates between the out-sourced labour and the home currency.

Freedomworks told me that the big bad government is to blame, so I’m going to ignore the reams of evidence that globalization has led to American deindustrialization and helped to make our economy dependent (not interdependent) on places like China to absolutely no benefit of the American worker

JFKY on June 22, 2012 at 3:59 PM

There we go.

libfreeordie on June 22, 2012 at 4:04 PM

Everything related to this whole “Buy America” fallacy is just awful — barring even greater costs such as threats to national security, why on earth would you do something more expensively than necessary?

Not everything with an American name was made in America, and not everything with a foreign name was made overseas.

Most cars sold in America by “Japanese” carmakers Honda, Toyota, and Nissan are made in America, by American workers, mostly in right-to-work states in the South. Did the Japanese carmakers build factories here because they felt sorry for Americans? Hardly! They came here because it was cheaper to build the cars here and sell them here, than to build them in Japan and ship them across the Pacific.

If the Government of any country creates a business-friendly environment, with low corporate taxes without imposing draconian regulations or expensive welfare taxes, businesses will move there.
If we get rid of Obama and ObamaCare, businesses will “insource” to the United States.

Steve Z on June 22, 2012 at 4:04 PM

libfreeordie on June 22, 2012 at 4:00 PM

The main reason the economy hasn’t recovered and is heading for further recession is because of President Downgrade’s administration regulating and taxing business out of business. And #1 Obamacare causing business to sit and not hire anyone because they can’t afford the pain that’s coming.

kirkill on June 22, 2012 at 4:04 PM

libfreeordie on June 22, 2012 at 4:00 PM

I could agree with you if you’d see the hypocrisy on your side.

Schadenfreude on June 22, 2012 at 4:05 PM

If the Government of any country creates a business-friendly environment, with low corporate taxes without imposing draconian regulations or expensive welfare taxes, businesses will move there.
If we get rid of Obama and ObamaCare, businesses will “insource” to the United States.

Steve Z on June 22, 2012 at 4:04 PM

Why was the trend towards outsourcing from the 1970s to 2009 before Obama took office?

libfreeordie on June 22, 2012 at 4:05 PM

And Stoic Patriot the US government helps its citizens by ensuring Free Trade. And it hurts us when it does not…the Peanut Medallions mean my peanut butter costs more than it should, if I could buy foreign produced peanuts for my JIF…it helps Jim-muh Carter, not me…Why do soft drink manufacturers use corn syrup? Because the Sugar Lobby keeps cheaper foreign sugar out….which hurt REAL AMERICAN WORKERS, because Brach’s closed a number of US factories and moved them to Canada, because sugar was cheaper there….American Rice Growers had/have the same coverage…”Protecting” certain groups means taking money from MY pocket and giving it to them…yeah THEY are richer, but I’M poorer…tell me about citizen welfare again.

JFKY on June 22, 2012 at 4:05 PM

kirkill on June 22, 2012 at 4:04 PM

Shedding light on recalcitrant darkness…

Schadenfreude on June 22, 2012 at 4:05 PM

Motives? Is that like “good intentions”. You know, the thing the road to hell is paved with. Your motives are inside your head. your words were on the screen. To what else are we to respond?

SKYFOX on June 22, 2012 at 4:02 PM | Delete | Delete and Ban

Well, you could start by actually using the words I put on the screen. You claimed that I seemed to want equality of outcome. I never said nor implied any such thing. A little bit of honesty on your part would be appreciated.

Stoic Patriot on June 22, 2012 at 4:05 PM

Its pretty hilarious.

libfreeordie on June 22, 2012 at 4:00 PM

Yeah, seeing your post pop up right after Baxter Greene’s devastating takedown of Axelrod is pretty hilarious.

Thanks for playing!

Del Dolemonte on June 22, 2012 at 4:06 PM

Our quality of trolls has really taken a nose dive in recent months.

gwelf on June 22, 2012 at 4:07 PM

You can fight global market forces, but you can’t fight it and survive into the next generation. It didn’t hurt Steve Jobs and Apple much to go overseas. You compete, or you die (financially.) Sometimes YOU die too, but for Jobs, that wasn’t because he went overseas.

RBMN on June 22, 2012 at 4:07 PM

To all the concern trolls:

How is Axelrod’s blather going to stop outsourcing? Anyone? Anyone?

mwbri on June 22, 2012 at 4:07 PM

I could agree with you if you’d see the hypocrisy on your side.

Schadenfreude on June 22, 2012 at 4:05 PM

I said “Dem-Republican” complicity with global trade didn’t I? Didn’t you see my post on page 1 about Clinton and NAFTA. What more do I have to do? Curse the name of every single registered Democrat in this country until heaven itself can not take the gnashing of my teeth?!?

*ahem*

Anyway, yeah its pretty obvious I’m not into the Dems on global capitalism.

libfreeordie on June 22, 2012 at 4:07 PM

kirkill on June 22, 2012 at 3:47 PM

That wouldn’t work for Romney, it would sink him forever.

aengus on June 22, 2012 at 4:07 PM

You’re assuming that countries will retaliate. You forget that other countries currently practice this towards the US, and we do not respond in kind. In fact, Erika was good enough to point that out above and demonstrate that we’re getting screwed.

If our government can find a sucker like the US is on trade with China, and extract rents from them, do so.

Stoic Patriot on June 22, 2012 at 3:58 PM

And you’re assuming they won’t. And you completely ignored the rest of my point- you’re forcing higher prices on Americans and American companies, who will then raise prices and/or cut costs, which means more outsourcing.

Micromanaging a $15 trillion economy 24/7 is something that give you big government cultists sticky pajamas, but does not actually work on a sustained basis in reality. You guys will see this once your dream of ObamaCare hits full stride in 2014.

Chuck Schick on June 22, 2012 at 4:07 PM

Well, you could start by actually using the words I put on the screen. You claimed that I seemed to want equality of outcome. I never said nor implied any such thing. A little bit of honesty on your part would be appreciated.

Stoic Patriot on June 22, 2012 at 4:05 PM

So what economic system do you support? You’ve already ruled out a free market. So what then?

gwelf on June 22, 2012 at 4:08 PM

Yeah, seeing your post pop up right after Baxter Greene’s devastating takedown of Axelrod is pretty hilarious.

Thanks for playing!

Del Dolemonte on June 22, 2012 at 4:06 PM

Don’t you have a Cindy Sheehan strawman to beat on that other thread. And as I’ve said (like 4 times now I think) Dems are totally complicit with global trade.

libfreeordie on June 22, 2012 at 4:08 PM

It’s a tribute to how desperate the Obama acolytes are that they keep trying this idiotic Bain attack over and over again even though it didn’t work last time. Besides, our not so benevolent dictator Obama is responsible for such wholesale economic devastation that nobody in their right mind could possible think that anything Bain did even comes remotely close.

eyedoc on June 22, 2012 at 4:08 PM

And Stoic Patriot the US government helps its citizens by ensuring Free Trade. And it hurts us when it does not…the Peanut Medallions mean my peanut butter costs more than it should, if I could buy foreign produced peanuts for my JIF…it helps Jim-muh Carter, not me…Why do soft drink manufacturers use corn syrup? Because the Sugar Lobby keeps cheaper foreign sugar out….which hurt REAL AMERICAN WORKERS, because Brach’s closed a number of US factories and moved them to Canada, because sugar was cheaper there….American Rice Growers had/have the same coverage…”Protecting” certain groups means taking money from MY pocket and giving it to them…yeah THEY are richer, but I’M poorer…tell me about citizen welfare again.

JFKY on June 22, 2012 at 4:05 PM | Delete | Delete and Ban

If you consider just the consumer standpoint on things, yes, your example holds up. And if you consider the labor side of things, it doesn’t because those workers lose their jobs to foreign labor. This is why I stress the importance of real wages, because households act as both consumers and labor, and you cannot consume unless you produce through your labor. If you lose your job, then unless subsidized by the government or by drawing from one’s own wealth (since income is essentially nil at that point for the common man), you lose your capacity to consume, making the lower prices irrelevant.

Stoic Patriot on June 22, 2012 at 4:08 PM

This Erika was hired for laughs. Lol. Your anti middle class/ pit American against American party invented damaging, cheap and let me add racist populism.

Uppereastside on June 22, 2012 at 3:49 PM

The new anti American conservatives. I rest my case.

Uppereastside on June 22, 2012 at 3:53 PM

Looks like your folks wasted that money.

Bmore on June 22, 2012 at 4:08 PM

Our quality of trolls has really taken a nose dive in recent months.

gwelf on June 22, 2012 at 4:07 PM | Delete | Delete and Ban

Libfree is a returing Troll named DeathtoMediaHacks. Wasn’t very well-liked around here then, either.

kingsjester on June 22, 2012 at 4:08 PM

Why was the trend towards outsourcing from the 1970s to 2009 before Obama took office?

libfreeordie on June 22, 2012 at 4:05 PM

Union busting?

Taxes too high?

Del Dolemonte on June 22, 2012 at 4:09 PM

It isn’t the TEA Party is about Federal SPENDING, try to keep your enemies straight, as Sun Tzu if you know neither yourself or your enemy you will suffer 100 defeats….so try to keep your enemy’s straight in your head. Out-sourcing, is on the whole, good, if it makes a company more competitive and raises share holder value. NOW, some outsourcing is unsuccessful because the company outsourcing did not examine the productivity of its out-sourced labour, and the exchange rates between the out-sourced labour and the home currency.

JFKY on June 22, 2012 at 3:59 PM

Thanks at least for not insulting me. But no, I don’t think this is gonna fly with the American middle-class. This is why there’s a break between the GOP establishment and the grass roots.

HB3 on June 22, 2012 at 4:10 PM

Anyway, yeah its pretty obvious I’m not into the Dems on global capitalism.

libfreeordie on June 22, 2012 at 4:07 PM

Did you get the fine folks at Morehouse straightened out yet?

Bmore on June 22, 2012 at 4:10 PM

I guess the real sin to liberals is that many companies are sick of their regulations and being forced to bow to overpaid and underproductive union thugs.

If you’re patriotic apparently you don’t have a right to do as you wish with your property if it’s against the liberal socialist progressive agenda of crushing America into the dirt.

Wolfmoon on June 22, 2012 at 4:10 PM

That wouldn’t work for Romney, it would sink him forever.

aengus on June 22, 2012 at 4:07 PM

Sadly, probably right, can’t just come out and tell the truth anymore. Unless it’s that you were a Choom smoking coke head bullying little black girls and eating dogs. Then you get to be POTUS.

kirkill on June 22, 2012 at 4:11 PM

The new anti American conservatives. I rest my case.

Uppereastside on June 22, 2012 at 3:53 PM

None, hardly, you Liar.

Schadenfreude on June 22, 2012 at 4:11 PM

And Stoic Patriot the US government helps its citizens by ensuring Free Trade.

Evidence please!

libfreeordie on June 22, 2012 at 4:11 PM

Why was the trend towards outsourcing from the 1970s to 2009 before Obama took office?

Tell me this libfree, is America richer TODAY than it was in 1979? Your standard of living and your Compensation have increased, the US economy is 50-100% (in real terms) than it was in 1979…even with outsourcing, HOW CAN THIS BE? The answer the Capitalism and it the dynamism of it economy. Outsourcing makes sense when Americans and/or their governments/unions artificially inflate wages….IF I can get a widget made for $1 in the US and make a reasonable Return I will, but when the American suddenly drives the cost to $2.25 and I can get it in Mexico for $1…I’ll move to Mexico. You have no GG*d-Given right to a union-mandated $25/hour with work rules and then ObamaCare….

JFKY on June 22, 2012 at 4:11 PM

And you’re assuming they won’t. And you completely ignored the rest of my point- you’re forcing higher prices on Americans and American companies, who will then raise prices and/or cut costs, which means more outsourcing.

Micromanaging a $15 trillion economy 24/7 is something that give you big government cultists sticky pajamas, but does not actually work on a sustained basis in reality. You guys will see this once your dream of ObamaCare hits full stride in 2014.

Chuck Schick on June 22, 2012 at 4:07 PM | Delete

I haven’t assumed they won’t, but it is most certainly is a possibility as currently we are the ones being played for fools.

As for forcing higher prices on Americans and American companies, again, higher wages also allow you to afford higher prices. What matters are things in real terms.

You guys will see this once your dream of ObamaCare hits full stride in 2014.

Another example of pulling crap out from nowhere. If you’ve read anything on HotAir, you’ll find that I’ve been rooting for Obamacare’s demise.

Stoic Patriot on June 22, 2012 at 4:11 PM

Dems are totally complicit with global trade.

libfreeordie on June 22, 2012 at 4:08 PM

At least you are objective on this topic.

Schadenfreude on June 22, 2012 at 4:12 PM

So, if I’m understanding the trolls correctly Romney as head of Bain should have:
(1) Buy company with clients/investors (e.g., union pensions and grandma) money
(2) Pay everyone in that company a “fair” wage that prices the company out of the market
(3) Bankruptcy
(3) Tax payer bailout
(3) ????
(4) Profit!

gwelf on June 22, 2012 at 4:12 PM

Del Dolemonte on June 22, 2012 at 4:06 PM

Don’t you have a Cindy Sheehan strawman to beat on that other thread.

libfreeordie on June 22, 2012 at 4:08 PM

How is that a “strawman” when you repeatedly refuse to tell us why your Party used her and her dead soldier son for political “gain”, and then immediately discarded her like a used syringe when her usefulness to your Regime expired?

Once you Man Up and tell us why your Party threw her over the side, I’ll stop asking you the question. Remember, you’re the one who brought her name up to begin with. Not I.

Del Dolemonte on June 22, 2012 at 4:12 PM

Did you get the fine folks at Morehouse straightened out yet?

Bmore on June 22, 2012 at 4:10 PM

Really? Randomly bringing up a point I made months ago about gay communities at Morehouse? Thats your contribution to the thread? #fail.

libfreeordie on June 22, 2012 at 4:12 PM

When businesses find ways to do business less expensively, consumers win.

Really? My company is moving jobs overseas. Thankfully I still have mine, but I’ve got news for you–if my job gets offshored, I won’t be a consumer, I’ll be on the dole. Great deal, huh? How many other unemployed former American consumers lost their jobs to offshoring?

I’m voting for Romney, but I’m showering after I do it.

quikstrike98 on June 22, 2012 at 4:13 PM

Del Dolemonte on June 22, 2012 at 4:12 PM

I responded to your post on that thread. Try and keep it cute, would you, and engage that debate on that thread.

libfreeordie on June 22, 2012 at 4:13 PM

Libfree is a returing Troll named DeathtoMediaHacks. Wasn’t very well-liked around here then, either.

kingsjester on June 22, 2012 at 4:08 PM

DeathToMediaHacks is a black homosexual racist…

OmahaConservative on June 22, 2012 at 4:14 PM

Ughh. It sickens me that our country’s leaders are thusly engaged in such damaging, cheap populism.

Hear, hear Erika!

You are really the voice of reason at Hotair.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on June 22, 2012 at 4:14 PM

So what economic system do you support? You’ve already ruled out a free market. So what then?

gwelf on June 22, 2012 at 4:08 PM | Delete

I largely favor our current system, minus our participation in the WTO, our agreement to GATT, NAFTA, and various memoranda of understanding with other countries, particularly China.

I mention the memorandum of understanding in particular because I formerly worked on a cost-benefit analysis of one Federal regulation based on said memos, where we put additional regulations on US businesses for problems that were occurring in China, while requiring no reciprocal (much less enforceable) terms against the Chinese.

Stoic Patriot on June 22, 2012 at 4:14 PM

If you consider just the consumer standpoint on things, yes, your example holds up. And if you consider the labor side of things, it doesn’t because those workers lose their jobs to foreign labor. This is why I stress the importance of real wages, because households act as both consumers and labor, and you cannot consume unless you produce through your labor. If you lose your job, then unless subsidized by the government or by drawing from one’s own wealth (since income is essentially nil at that point for the common man), you lose your capacity to consume, making the lower prices irrelevant

2%% of the jobs in existence TODAY were not in in existence 30 years ago….One industry dies, it’s workers migrate to new jobs. And we are ALL consumers…so we all benefit from lower prices.

Like I said, pay more if you want to, but it is still the equivalent of burning that money on your front porch!

JFKY on June 22, 2012 at 4:14 PM

Really? My company is moving jobs overseas. Thankfully I still have mine, but I’ve got news for you–if my job gets offshored, I won’t be a consumer, I’ll be on the dole. Great deal, huh? How many other unemployed former American consumers lost their jobs to offshoring?

I’m voting for Romney, but I’m showering after I do it.

quikstrike98 on June 22, 2012 at 4:13 PM

Sorry! Wall Street is probably demanding a greater dividend on their investment in your company and you’ve had the audacity to demand a wage comensurate with your skills. So this is entirely your fault! Ain’t global capitalism grand?

libfreeordie on June 22, 2012 at 4:15 PM

Micromanaging a $15 trillion economy 24/7 is something that give you big government cultists sticky pajamas, but does not actually work on a sustained basis in reality. You guys will see this once your dream of ObamaCare hits full stride in 2014.

Chuck Schick on June 22, 2012 at 4:07 PM |

FUNNY !

But no Obama care in 2014. That’s not funny.

Jabberwock on June 22, 2012 at 4:15 PM

Dems are totally complicit with global trade.

libfreeordie on June 22, 2012 at 4:08 PM

yes, we appreciate your honesty on that. So now you’ll die?

kirkill on June 22, 2012 at 4:15 PM

If you consider just the consumer standpoint on things, yes, your example holds up. And if you consider the labor side of things, it doesn’t because those workers lose their jobs to foreign labor. This is why I stress the importance of real wages, because households act as both consumers and labor, and you cannot consume unless you produce through your labor. If you lose your job, then unless subsidized by the government or by drawing from one’s own wealth (since income is essentially nil at that point for the common man), you lose your capacity to consume, making the lower prices irrelevant.

Stoic Patriot on June 22, 2012 at 4:08 PM

So what remedy do you propose? You’ve already agreed a system doesn’t exist which prevents anyone from losing out when other parties make voluntary transactions – so why do you keep returning to the guy who has a job that pays too much in the market? It’s by definition unsustainable. So that guy/gal gets a new job, learns a new skill, starts his own business etc.

gwelf on June 22, 2012 at 4:16 PM

DeathToMediaHacks is a black homosexual racist…

OmahaConservative on June 22, 2012 at 4:14 PM | Delete | Delete and Ban

And pompous, too…

kingsjester on June 22, 2012 at 4:16 PM

Evidence please!

The fact that this is still the largest, richest economy in the world, AND THE WORLD’S LARGEST MANUFACTURER AND EXPORTER….something folks like you and Stoic don’t grasp.

JFKY on June 22, 2012 at 4:17 PM

DeathToMediaHacks is a black homosexual racist…

OmahaConservative on June 22, 2012 at 4:14 PM

Charles M. Blow?!?

AubieJon on June 22, 2012 at 4:18 PM

2%% of the jobs in existence TODAY were not in in existence 30 years ago….One industry dies, it’s workers migrate to new jobs. And we are ALL consumers…so we all benefit from lower prices.

Like I said, pay more if you want to, but it is still the equivalent of burning that money on your front porch!

JFKY on June 22, 2012 at 4:14 PM | Delete | Delete and Ban

Pray tell, exactly how are you compiling that statistic? I could see plenty of ways of skewing that figure (i.e. the same job exists, but a different worker holds it after retirement, firing, etc)

Stoic Patriot on June 22, 2012 at 4:18 PM

Sorry! Wall Street is probably demanding a greater dividend on their investment in your company and you’ve had the audacity to demand a wage comensurate with your skills. So this is entirely your fault! Ain’t global capitalism grand?

libfreeordie on June 22, 2012 at 4:15 PM | Delete | Delete and Ban

Or, just as likely, you would not purchase his company’s product unless they lowered the price.
You may have cost his co-workers their jobs

Jabberwock on June 22, 2012 at 4:18 PM

Bain:2012::halliburton:2004

The morons have their marching orders…

tom daschle concerned on June 22, 2012 at 4:18 PM

I haven’t assumed they won’t, but it is most certainly is a possibility as currently we are the ones being played for fools.

How so?

Another example of pulling crap out from nowhere. If you’ve read anything on HotAir, you’ll find that I’ve been rooting for Obamacare’s demise.

Stoic Patriot on June 22, 2012 at 4:11 PM

Oh yes, I keep forgetting. You’re just another Obama-hating conservative who wants to jack up taxes to create jobs.

Chuck Schick on June 22, 2012 at 4:19 PM

Oh, well let me rephrase it then.

Anyway, yeah its pretty obvious I’m not into the Dems on global capitalism.

deathtomediahacks on June 22, 2012 at 4:07 PM

Did you get the fine folks at Morehouse straightened out yet?

Bmore on June 22, 2012 at 4:19 PM

Shaking my head, people — shaking my head.

First of all, when Romney talks about China, he isn’t denying companies’ rights to move their operations out of America if they so please. He’s talking about creating a level international playing field (and no, I don’t mean that like how President Obama uses it). Free trade is spectacular, but it doesn’t work when communist China is consistently doing things like manipulating their currency, pirating our technology, and other such highly nefarious endeavors.

I’m shaking my head right along with you, Erika. The idea that it’s the job of private corporations to not operate at maximum profit, to not be competitive is the idea of the very people who legislated corporate tax rates, minimum wage acts, environmental regulations, etc. none of which compare globally. Heck, even Japan lowered their corp. rate earlier this year.
Eh, the Bain attack hasn’t worked out too well so far; I’m thinking this is a fizzler.
A level playing field not only helps consumers, but employees and stockholders. Win-win.

Everything related to this whole “Buy America” fallacy is just awful — barring even greater costs such as threats to national security, why on earth would you do something more expensively than necessary?

Perhaps this is the reason for the UN campaign to rewrite “Made in the USA” to ‘Made in the World.’ No joke.

jersey taxpayer on June 22, 2012 at 4:20 PM

DeathToMediaHacks is a black homosexual racist…

OmahaConservative on June 22, 2012 at 4:14 PM

Charles M. Blow?!? (Not sure what made the strike-thru. Silly BlueTooth mouse)

AubieJon on June 22, 2012 at 4:20 PM

The companies Bain invested in didn’t ship jobs overseas. They did work was done for companies like Microsoft so they could, say, set up overseas call centers. Where’s the outrage at Microsoft?

Buy Danish on June 22, 2012 at 4:20 PM

Or, just as likely, you would not purchase his company’s product unless they lowered the price.
You may have cost his co-workers their jobs

Jabberwock on June 22, 2012 at 4:18 PM

What about simply lowering wages, including executives, lowering perks, including executives. Finding more incrememntal ways to lower costs instead of outsourcing. And really we know that answer, because the bar thats been set for success is so ginormously ridiculous, that *anything* including sending American jobs overseas, becomes justified. Its a simple thing, and its called greed.

libfreeordie on June 22, 2012 at 4:22 PM

Pray tell, exactly how are you compiling that statistic?

It’s a BLS stat…it means that PC repair person is a job that did NOT exist in 1970…you find them everywhere now! Cisco/Microsoft certified software technician she NO EXIST in 1970…she do now….the JOB, that’s what I mean…”fender attacher” did not exist in 1890, it did in 1940…..

JFKY on June 22, 2012 at 4:22 PM

Charles M. Blow?!? (Not sure what made the strike-thru. Silly BlueTooth mouse)

AubieJon on June 22, 2012 at 4:20 PM

Heh…

OmahaConservative on June 22, 2012 at 4:23 PM

So what remedy do you propose? You’ve already agreed a system doesn’t exist which prevents anyone from losing out when other parties make voluntary transactions – so why do you keep returning to the guy who has a job that pays too much in the market? It’s by definition unsustainable. So that guy/gal gets a new job, learns a new skill, starts his own business etc.

gwelf on June 22, 2012 at 4:16 PM | Delete

1.) What do you mean when you use the term “too much”? Any price which is above the market-clearing price?

2.) There is nothing which makes paying more for a product by definition unsustainable. Competition will tend to eliminate higher priced products in favor of lower-priced ones (provided again a certain set of assumptions). In so far as you can structure national policy to protect American workers, letting them retain their jobs, continue to earn income, and thereby continue to consume, the better off they’ll be.

As for a person getting a new job, learning a new skill, or starting a business, that’s generally a failure in expectation. Most start-ups fail, you can’t get a job when no one’s offering, and simply because you pick up a skill doesn’t mean it’s needed.

Stoic Patriot on June 22, 2012 at 4:24 PM

libfreeordie on June 22, 2012 at 4:22 PM

Or…you could simply redue corporate tax rates to encourage busnesses and keep Americans employed.

kingsjester on June 22, 2012 at 4:24 PM

It’s a BLS stat…it means that PC repair person is a job that did NOT exist in 1970…you find them everywhere now! Cisco/Microsoft certified software technician she NO EXIST in 1970…she do now….the JOB, that’s what I mean…”fender attacher” did not exist in 1890, it did in 1940…..

JFKY on June 22, 2012 at 4:22 PM | Delete

Again, what are you using? OES data? What?

Stoic Patriot on June 22, 2012 at 4:24 PM

What about simply lowering wages, including executives, lowering perks, including executives. Finding more incrememntal ways to lower costs instead of outsourcing. And really we know that answer, because the bar thats been set for success is so ginormously ridiculous, that *anything* including sending American jobs overseas, becomes justified. Its a simple thing, and its called greed.

libfreeordie on June 22, 2012 at 4:22 PM

Workers of the world unite and we’ll end greed!

Again – what are you typing this on and how much did you pay for it? I hope that whoever manufactured it paid their workers fairly and you haven’t unduly profited from their labor.

gwelf on June 22, 2012 at 4:25 PM

Out sourcing is here to stay.
We, the ultimate consumer will demand it.
Wal-Mart is not successful because Americans have less $ to spend. It does well because a $ goes much further there. Almost ALL of its products are from overseas.
It is foolish to blame business for trying to meets OUR demands.
WE are demanding a lower cost. Our demands are driving business overseas.

Jabberwock on June 22, 2012 at 3:49 PM

Or, just as likely, you would not purchase his company’s product unless they lowered the price.
You may have cost his co-workers their jobs

Jabberwock on June 22, 2012 at 4:18 PM

Hmm but Erika Johnsen (and presumably other defenders of Bain/Romney) scoff at what is here called the “Buy America” fallacy. What say you?

aengus on June 22, 2012 at 4:25 PM

Another example of pulling crap out from nowhere. If you’ve read anything on HotAir, you’ll find that I’ve been rooting for Obamacare’s demise.

Stoic Patriot on June 22, 2012 at 4:11 PM
Oh yes, I keep forgetting. You’re just another Obama-hating conservative who wants to jack up taxes to create jobs.

Chuck Schick on June 22, 2012 at 4:19 PM | Delete | Delete and Ban

Actually, I’m an Obama-hating conservative who would take the 10-to-1 deal that Bret Baier offered as a hypothetical in the debates, not for the sake of creating jobs, but for the sake of balancing the budget.

Stoic Patriot on June 22, 2012 at 4:26 PM

and its called greed.

And you’re not “Greedy?” I mean you actively give money away making yourself poorer, you turn down raises? When it’s YOU I’m sure the increases are good, when it’s someone else, then it’s “Greed.” People always want more, until the market or some other limiter applies they will want and possess more….that’s not “Greed” that’s human nature.

JFKY on June 22, 2012 at 4:26 PM

1.) What do you mean when you use the term “too much”? Any price which is above the market-clearing price?

2.) There is nothing which makes paying more for a product by definition unsustainable. Competition will tend to eliminate higher priced products in favor of lower-priced ones (provided again a certain set of assumptions). In so far as you can structure national policy to protect American workers, letting them retain their jobs, continue to earn income, and thereby continue to consume, the better off they’ll be.

As for a person getting a new job, learning a new skill, or starting a business, that’s generally a failure in expectation. Most start-ups fail, you can’t get a job when no one’s offering, and simply because you pick up a skill doesn’t mean it’s needed.

Stoic Patriot on June 22, 2012 at 4:24 PM

How do you propose we stop people from losing jobs? How do you propose we stop people from losing jobs to cheaper labor over seas?

gwelf on June 22, 2012 at 4:27 PM

Its a simple thing, and its called greed.

libfreeordie on June 22, 2012 at 4:22 PM


PERFECT US MASTER!

tom daschle concerned on June 22, 2012 at 4:27 PM

Sorry! Wall Street is probably demanding a greater dividend on their investment in your company and you’ve had the audacity to demand a wage comensurate with your skills. So this is entirely your fault! Ain’t global capitalism grand?
libfreeordie on June 22, 2012 at 4:15 PM | Delete | Delete and Ban
Or, just as likely, you would not purchase his company’s product unless they lowered the price.
You may have cost his co-workers their jobs
Jabberwock on June 22, 2012 at 4:18 PM

The man points out fact and reality and what does the deranged ideologue say? Ban him and ban him now.

And you wonder why Americans think this new conservative movement is anti America.

Uppereastside on June 22, 2012 at 4:27 PM

Or…you could simply redue corporate tax rates to encourage busnesses and keep Americans employed.

kingsjester on June 22, 2012 at 4:24 PM

If that happened then Wall Street “projections” (i.e., how many yachts I want to demand from my investments this year) would simply be re-adjusted so that it would no longer be profitable to employ American workers. Unless we tackle the problem of corporatist/Wall Street culture. Unless we start to oppose the idea that greed is an asset the American worker will always be priced out of the global system. If these employers had loyalty to American workers they would’ve already demonstrated it. Lowering taxes will, like all things, just get “priced in.” I can’t believe you don’t understand that.

libfreeordie on June 22, 2012 at 4:27 PM

Out-sourcing, is on the whole, good, if it makes a company more competitive and raises share holder value. NOW, some outsourcing is unsuccessful because the company outsourcing did not examine the productivity of its out-sourced labour, and the exchange rates between the out-sourced labour and the home currency.

JFKY on June 22, 2012 at 3:59 PM

How does that share price help the Americans that had their jobs outsourced?

This is part of the problems with many Republicans. They do not think about Americans just money. Many good companies keep jobs in America Gibson for one. Now this company is hated by the left. So this could be a winner for the left if we just kept it in perspective.

26 million Americans are out of work. Outsourcing is a big part of the reason for that. Sometimes I start to wonder how many jobs are actually secure in America. Could banks eventually have no employees in America. Just totally automated with call centers. Seems possible. So what should children train in?

We can blame others but at some point we must consider that America is great because Americans were good to each other. Sending all jobs overseas would destroy America. Eventually yours would also go away.

But the real point is almost every American knows someone who at some point worked in a job that has now been outsourced. Thus this if tied to Romney will hurt him.

Steveangell on June 22, 2012 at 4:27 PM

Actually, I’m an Obama-hating conservative who would take the 10-to-1 deal that Bret Baier

Bret Baier can’t offer anything…he’s a news person…and two, we’ve been down that road before the taxes ALWAYS come the cuts never do….so you are basically a nice guy that will let himself get taken by the Democrats again?

JFKY on June 22, 2012 at 4:28 PM

Here’s a thought:

How about making the US a friendly place for companies to produce their products by: lowering taxes, and creating some certainty in taxes rather than spouting how corporations and the rich aren’t “paying their fair share;” getting rid of the dark cloud of Obamacare and all those onerous uncertainties; getting rid of ridiculous regulations that make it difficult to impossible to start and run a business; and enact broad country-wide tort reform to remove the threat of frivolous lawsuits, such as the ADA regs create (or better yet, convert to a “loser pays” british-style system where frivolous lawsuits come with a price to the loser). Oh, and while we’re at it, make every state a right-to-work state so that unions won’t be a millstone around the collective necks of American industry?

Screaming about outsource jobs, while at the same time driving them out of the country seems, well, counterproductive.

iurockhead on June 22, 2012 at 4:28 PM

Why was the trend towards outsourcing from the 1970s to 2009 before Obama took office?

libfreeordie on June 22, 2012 at 4:05 PM

Ok, let me think back, when was the first incarnation of the Obama regime? Thaat’s right, it was Jimmy Carter. The last anti-business, anti-capitalist President the country made the mistake of electing.

I think I see a trend starting to emerge here.

Carter = Malaise, royally wrecked the economy.

Reagan = Cleaned up Carter’s grenade on the economy and set the stage for the economy of the ’90′s

Bush = Kept the nation going in the same direction Reagan set up (all except for his mistake to go along with the democrat congress and raise taxes).

Clinton = One of the last pro-business, pro-capitalism Democrats to ever exist. He was aided by the conservative congress of ’94.

Bush 2.0 = Still for pro-business, pro-capitalism, had 9/11 recession to deal with and spent way too much $$ (gladly helped by the democrat congress).

And then there’s Obama = Double dip recession (actually should have been classified as a full blown depression and would have been labeled as such by the media if he was a Republican President). Combined with cronies in congress his first two years, spent the country into oblivion. Anti-business, anti-capitalism, anti-freedom, anti-everything else good in this country, probably anti-puppies too.

Yep, there you go, Carter = Obama, Obama = Carter. I think we’ve learned our lesson and hopefully won’t go down this road for another 30+ years.

Meople on June 22, 2012 at 4:28 PM

What about simply lowering wages, including executives, lowering perks, including executives. Finding more incrememntal ways to lower costs instead of outsourcing. And really we know that answer, because the bar thats been set for success is so ginormously ridiculous, that *anything* including sending American jobs overseas, becomes justified. Its a simple thing, and its called greed.

libfreeordie on June 22, 2012 at 4:22 PM

I’m going to ask you the same question I ask my liberal friends when they get on this little “greed” rant of theirs.

Have you gone into work and demanded to be paid the same wages as the lowest paid employee in the company?

ButterflyDragon on June 22, 2012 at 4:28 PM

Lowering taxes will, like all things, just get “priced in.” I can’t believe you don’t understand that.

libfreeordie on June 22, 2012 at 4:27 PM | Delete | Delete and Ban

Explain the economic boom of the Reagan years, “perfesser”.

kingsjester on June 22, 2012 at 4:29 PM

Del Dolemonte on June 22, 2012 at 4:12 PM

I responded to your post on that thread.

libfreeordie on June 22, 2012 at 4:13 PM

No you didn’t, you admitted again that you were afraid to answer my simple question.

Del Dolemonte on June 22, 2012 at 4:29 PM

What about simply lowering wages, including executives, lowering perks, including executives. Finding more incrememntal ways to lower costs instead of outsourcing. And really we know that answer, because the bar thats been set for success is so ginormously ridiculous, that *anything* including sending American jobs overseas, becomes justified. Its a simple thing, and its called greed.

Yep, our last CEO was NUMBAH ONE on the MSN “Hall of Shame” for golden bailouts. SOB was getting 5 million a year in “consulting fees” plus a million/year in pension, plus limo, company plane, and COUNTRY CLUB FEES paid for by the company. During his tenure our stock price had crashed through the basement floor and 10′s of thousands of employees lost their jobs. Great job guy!

quikstrike98 on June 22, 2012 at 4:29 PM

And you’re not “Greedy?” I mean you actively give money away making yourself poorer, you turn down raises? When it’s YOU I’m sure the increases are good, when it’s someone else, then it’s “Greed.” People always want more, until the market or some other limiter applies they will want and possess more….that’s not “Greed” that’s human nature.

JFKY on June 22, 2012 at 4:26 PM

Well for one thing, I chose a profession where there’s a pretty clear ceiling on earnings in favor of something more lucrative. I don’t think everyone who wants a middle class income and the ability to, for example, take a vacation every other year is greedy. I’m talking about a particular culture within corporate America that puts greed over national pride and obligation.

libfreeordie on June 22, 2012 at 4:29 PM

Ban him and ban him now.

Uppereastside on June 22, 2012 at 4:27 PM

In his own words.

Bmore on June 22, 2012 at 4:30 PM

And you wonder why Americans think this new conservative movement is anti America.

Uppereastside on June 22, 2012 at 4:27 PM

Only you leftists are anti-American, incl. your CiC.

Schadenfreude on June 22, 2012 at 4:30 PM

How do you propose we stop people from losing jobs? How do you propose we stop people from losing jobs to cheaper labor over seas?

gwelf on June 22, 2012 at 4:27 PM | Delete | Delete and Ban

1.) Withdraw from WTO
2.) End our participation vis-a-vis GATT
3.) End our participation vis-a-vis NAFTA
4.) Enact higher and more numerous countervailing tariffs
5.) If necessary (this is more of a last resort for a couple of industries) enact import quotas

The problem our economy faces right now is not a lack of sufficient stimulus (Obama’s explanation) nor uncertainty in the market (the GOP explanation), but the lack of any need for American labor when other labor exists elsewhere that has adequate productive capacity to render American labor useless.

Stoic Patriot on June 22, 2012 at 4:31 PM

Reagan = Cleaned up Carter’s grenade on the economy and set the stage for the economy of the ’90′s

Bush = Kept the nation going in the same direction Reagan set up (all except for his mistake to go along with the democrat congress and raise taxes).

Are you under the belief that industrial outsourcing slowed down or was even reversed under Reagan and Bush? I honestly want to know…because it would explain a lot about Reagan hagiography by conservatives.

libfreeordie on June 22, 2012 at 4:31 PM

I’m talking about a particular culture within corporate America that puts greed over national pride and obligation.


raaaaaaaaacist!!!!!!!!!!!!!

tom daschle concerned on June 22, 2012 at 4:31 PM

No you didn’t, you admitted again that you were afraid to answer my simple question.

Del Dolemonte on June 22, 2012 at 4:29 PM

Keep it cute Del, I responded on that thread. Keep. it. cute.

libfreeordie on June 22, 2012 at 4:32 PM

Looks like you may have missed this rephrase and re-post. No worries.

Oh, well let me rephrase it then.

Anyway, yeah its pretty obvious I’m not into the Dems on global capitalism.

deathtomediahacks on June 22, 2012 at 4:07 PM

Did you get the fine folks at Morehouse straightened out yet?

Bmore on June 22, 2012 at 4:32 PM

Bret Baier can’t offer anything…he’s a news person…and two, we’ve been down that road before the taxes ALWAYS come the cuts never do….so you are basically a nice guy that will let himself get taken by the Democrats again?

JFKY on June 22, 2012 at 4:28 PM | Delete

That’s why it’s a hypothetical: because part of the assumptions that go into the hypothetical is that such hoodwinking cannot be done. If you could guarantee a 10-to-1 cuts to tax hikes deal without any gimmicks, it would be worth it.

Stoic Patriot on June 22, 2012 at 4:33 PM

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