Breaking: Issa’s House committee votes to hold Holder in contempt; Update: Obama’s compounding the tragedy, says Brian Terry’s family

posted at 4:43 pm on June 20, 2012 by Allahpundit

Next stop: The House floor for a vote by the full chamber. The Hill seems unsure about how many GOP votes it’ll get, but c’mon. Even recalcitrant Republicans who think a court battle with The One is a needless distraction have no choice but to go to the mat for Issa now that O’s pulled his power play with executive privilege.

The House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, led by Republican Chairman Darrell Issa (Calif.), approved a resolution along party lines to place Holder in contempt after battling him for months over access to internal agency documents about the gun-tracking operation Fast and Furious…

Even with 242 Republicans in the House majority, it remains unclear whether the contempt measure would have the backing of the full caucus. Many GOP members have resisted action on the Fast and Furious issue out of a desire to keep the 2012 election focus on the economy and jobs…

If the measure against Holder passes the House, it would be sent to the U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia, who would convene a grand jury that would decide whether to indict Holder. The U.S. Attorney’s office would be the designated prosecutor for the committee if Holder were to be indicted. The attorney general would face a maximum sentence of one year in prison if convicted by a jury.

Boehner just announced that the House will vote next week — unless, of course, O decides to play ball and turn over the documents Issa requested. Which, given that this is now a partisan death struggle in the middle of a campaign, I’m guessing he won’t do. What happens if the House votes yes? Three possibilities, according to CQ. One: The House could, er, have Holder arrested. Doubtful. Two, as noted in the Hill piece: Boehner and Issa could ask the DOJ to prosecute Holder. Since Holder runs the DOJ, let’s call that one doubtful too. Three: The House could file a civil lawsuit against Holder demanding the documents, at which point he and O would assert executive privilege and off we’d go to federal court for a constitutional battle over separation of powers. I would guess that you’ll see some sort of deal at that point since both sides will be leery of an adverse outcome. Obama doesn’t want a court ruling dropped on him in the last few months before the election compelling him to turn over damaging documents and the GOP doesn’t want to hand O a talking point about that damned obstructionist do-nothing Republican Congress sabotaging his progressive gunrunning scheme, etc, especially while Romney’s trying to get a word in edgewise about the misery of Obamanomics.

Multiple updates coming. Stand by.

Update: I saw chatter on Twitter this morning to the effect that Obama’s invocation of executive privilege proves that he must have been personally involved in Fast & Furious. Not so, apparently. At Breitbart, Ken Klukowski clarifies:

As I’ve written before, there are two types of executive privilege. One is a strong form rooted in the Constitution, called the presidential communication privilege. But there is another type, much weaker and rooted in common law instead of the Constitution, called the deliberative process privilege. That second, weaker variety is what President Obama invoked today regarding Holder.

It’s still the White House asserting the privilege, because only the president can assert executive privilege for his entire administration.

Shannen Coffin made the same point over at the Corner. The point of the “deliberative process privilege” is that you don’t want executive-branch officials afraid to be candid with each other in day to day operations for fear that their communications will later be subpoenaed by Congress and aired on the evening news. So Obama has an argument there; the counterargument is that, er, a privilege shouldn’t be abused as cover for hugely damaging and possibly illegal DOJ activity. Coffin thinks a court ruling on whether the privilege will be allowed here will turn on whether the documents are necessary to aid Congress in performing its lawmaking function. Granted, there’s no bill currently under consideration regarding gunrunning (I think), but there might well be in the future depending upon how bad this gets. As such, both Coffin and Klukowski think a court would rule to quash the privilege and make Obama turn over the documents — assuming we actually get that far.

Update: Needless to say, Brian Terry’s parents have had enough stalling on finding out how their son ended up being gunned down:

Terry family attorney Pat McGroder on Wednesday released the following statement from Terry’s parents Josephine Terry and Kent Terry Sr.: “Attorney General Eric Holder’s refusal to fully disclose the documents associated with Operation Fast and Furious and President Obama’s assertion of executive privilege serves to compound this tragedy. It denies the Terry family and the American people the truth.”

The Terrys said that their son “was killed by members of a Mexican drug cartel armed with weapons from this failed Justice Department gun trafficking investigation. For more than 18 months we have been asking our federal government for justice and accountability. The documents sought by the House Oversight Committee and associated with Operation Fast and Furious should be produced and turned over to the committee. Our son lost his life protecting this nation, and it is very disappointing that we are now faced with an administration that seems more concerned with protecting themselves rather than revealing the truth behind Operation Fast and Furious.”

The family of ICE agent Jaime Zapata, who was also killed with a gun involved in Fast & Furious, announced today that they’re filing a wrongful death suit against the DOJ and other federal agencies.

Update: Video fun via the Examiner of The One declaring in 2005 that the Attorney General is the people’s attorney, not the president’s. Huh. Are the people clamoring not to know how the rolling, murderous clusterfark known as Fast & Furious came to be?

Update: On a similar note, Mediaite dug up this nugget of Holder doing his “above politics” shtick in 2009:

I understand that the attorney general is different from every other cabinet officer. Though I am a part of the president’s team, I am not a part of the president’s team in the way that any other cabinet officer is. I have a special and unique responsibility.

There has to be a distance between me and the president. The president-elect said when he nominated me that he recognized that, that the attorney general was different from other cabinet officers.

Three years later, he’s running to Obama for an ass-covering assertion of privilege. Which O, fearing yet another major election-year headache, was only too happy to grant.

Update: Right on cue, via Newsbusters, there’s an MSNBC contributor insisting that the GOP is the loser in all this, not Obama and Holder. I do think there are misgivings among the leadership about pursuing this (Fox News is hearing that too), not only because it’ll push Romney off center stage but because I think Republicans in Congress are still shellshocked by the political beating they took when they went after Clinton in the late 1990s. But this train has now left the station: They’re going to proceed at least to the point of challenging his assertion of the privilege. Besides, how exactly does O spin this? “Can you believe these Republicans wasting America’s time by demanding to know about my gunrunning operation?”


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Time for one of the super pacs to create the following video: Obama’s War on Hispanics – Fast & Furious

bubbafromkc on June 20, 2012 at 6:33 PM

I vote for Rove’s “Crossroads PAC” as a bit of payback for the FEC complaint. Mu-wah-ha-ha-hah!

LaserBeam on June 20, 2012 at 6:43 PM

Oy. Andrea Tantaros is on The Five

Your first mistake is watching FNC.
Your second mistake is announcing it in public.

Mr. Arrogant on June 20, 2012 at 5:58 PM

Yeah, you’re right. CNN is so much better.

F-

Del Dolemonte on June 20, 2012 at 6:44 PM

The idea of a scum like Darrel Issa having anything to do with Government Oversight and Reform was always a sick joke. This is only the latest iteration. The American public will not be fooled. The suggestion that the killings wouldn’t have happened without F&F guns –because there is no way Mexican drug gangs could get guns– was always ridiculous, and it remains so. Any remaining respect anyone could have for the Republican-led House continues to drain away.

Drew Lowell on June 20, 2012 at 6:44 PM

Anyone wanna bet that Clinton is “advising” Obama to stand his ground on this, because the contempt vote will backfire on Republicans the way the impeachment vote against Clinton did?

Hee hee.

Mr. Arkadin on June 20, 2012 at 6:17 PM

And you’re complicit with the cover up of the deaths caused by F and F. Proud?

——————————————–

Tee hee./

F Off scumbag.

CW on June 20, 2012 at 6:45 PM

Time for one of the super pacs to create the following video:

Obama’s War on Hispanics – Fast & Furious

bubbafromkc on June 20, 2012 at 6:33 PM

And this was how much Barack Capone of Chicago hated Hispanics before one of them killed his posthumously adopted son.

VorDaj on June 20, 2012 at 6:46 PM

Drew Lowell on June 20, 2012 at 6:44 PM

Is that you Eric?

VorDaj on June 20, 2012 at 6:47 PM

Drew or Eric, whichever, obviously hates Hispanics.

VorDaj on June 20, 2012 at 6:48 PM

The suggestion that the killings wouldn’t have happened without F&F guns –because there is no way Mexican drug gangs could get guns– was always ridiculous, and it remains so. Any remaining respect anyone could have for the Republican-led House continues to drain away.

Drew Lowell on June 20, 2012 at 6:44 PM

Wow. So we should open up the floodgates? So you want to arm the Drug gangs and keep any way for the average Mexican citizen to defend themselves with a gun away from them?

oldroy on June 20, 2012 at 6:48 PM

Some Hispanic group should put out a poster on Obama and Holder like the Black Panthers put out on the Hispanic Zimmerman.

VorDaj on June 20, 2012 at 6:49 PM

scum like Darrel Issa

Drew Lowell on June 20, 2012 at 6:44 PM

You don’t like Iss, I take it.

spiritof61 on June 20, 2012 at 6:49 PM

The idea of a scum like Darrel Issa having anything to do with Government Oversight and Reform was always a sick joke. This is only the latest iteration. The American public will not be fooled. The suggestion that the killings wouldn’t have happened without F&F guns –because there is no way Mexican drug gangs could get guns– was always ridiculous, and it remains so. Any remaining respect anyone could have for the Republican-led House continues to drain away.

Drew Lowell on June 20, 2012 at 6:44 PM

Just a thought, but you might wanna cut back on the urine in your Rice Krispies tomorrow morning.

LaserBeam on June 20, 2012 at 6:49 PM

Just a thought, but you might wanna cut back on the urine in your Rice Krispies tomorrow morning.

LaserBeam on June 20, 2012 at 6:49 PM

And the battery acid in his enemas.

VorDaj on June 20, 2012 at 6:51 PM

Obama is his name
Murder is his game

VorDaj on June 20, 2012 at 6:52 PM

Oy. Andrea Tantaros is on The Five

Your first mistake is watching FNC.
Your second mistake is announcing it in public.

Mr. Arrogant on June 20, 2012 at 5:58 PM

Heh.

I haven’t watched Fox in over a year. They went off the deep end when they chucked Beck. I watch Fox Business when I have to get TV news (they’re not so hot, either, but better than Fox News, for sure). Frankly, there are no good news stations on TV anymore. Not a one.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on June 20, 2012 at 6:52 PM

Can’t wait for Tim Pawlenty’s tepid response.

SouthernGent on June 20, 2012 at 5:49 PM

Tim Pawlenty: I am very, very upset about this and will send a letter to DoJ telling them just how upset I am.

Chris Wallace: And what do you expect to get out of your angry letter, Governor?

Tim Pawlenty: Oh, it’s not angry, Chris. It’s more along the lines of disappointed or let down. I actually hope to get a response from DoJ — maybe an E-Mail or something.

Chris Wallace: You are a sad, sad little man, Governor.

Tim Pawlenty: I know, Chris. I know I’m a sad little man. Let’s pretend I never said anything about this issue and go back to talking about me becoming VP.

Chris Wallace: So no disappointed letter to DoJ, Governor?

Tim Pawlenty: No. I don’t know what you’re talking about, Chris.

(Romney/Jindal 2012)

Punchenko on June 20, 2012 at 6:53 PM

The idea of a scum like Darrel Issa having anything to do with Government Oversight and Reform was always a sick joke. This is only the latest iteration. The American public will not be fooled. The suggestion that the killings wouldn’t have happened without F&F guns –because there is no way Mexican drug gangs could get guns– was always ridiculous, and it remains so. Any remaining respect anyone could have for the Republican-led House continues to drain away.

Drew Lowell on June 20, 2012 at 6:44 PM

Drool, you might want to change your talking point, the WH has already pivoted away from that one.

Bmore on June 20, 2012 at 6:53 PM

if the repubs don’t persue this because of election year optics, they need to be kicked out of office. this isn’t about politics, two men who served our country lost their lives because of what the doj did. that is all that matters!

for a minute, put yourself in their shoes. imagine how your family would feel knowing you were gunned down by guns provided by the u.s. government, yet no one did anything for fear of it looking bad!!!

don’t they at least deserve to know what really happened?

s.o.b. this makes me mad!

jetch on June 20, 2012 at 6:53 PM

Drew Lowell on June 20, 2012 at 6:44 PM

You’re complicit as well low-life.

CW on June 20, 2012 at 6:54 PM

Wow. So we should open up the floodgates?

oldroy on June 20, 2012 at 6:48 PM

oldroy is right. The government of the United States should do everything in its power to limit access to guns.

Drew Lowell on June 20, 2012 at 6:54 PM

Hee hee.

Mr. Arkadin on June 20, 2012 at 6:17 PM

Indeed, perjury always cracks me up too…especially when it’s the tool occupying the highest office in the land….

lol!!!

BigWyo on June 20, 2012 at 6:54 PM

totherightofthem on June 20, 2012 at 6:28 PM

That stuff has been out there. It is certainly interesting that there are so many parallels, and there are many other administration statements that hint at the F&F program, but really can’t be tied to it directly. Remember the “under the radar” remark to Sarah Brady? But Obama’s direct involvement in Gunrunner isn’t in question. There is a distinction between Gunrunner, the overarching program, and F&F.

novaculus on June 20, 2012 at 6:54 PM

Oh and Drool, you’re side is going down.

Bmore on June 20, 2012 at 6:54 PM

Frankly, there are no good news stations on TV anymore. Not a one.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on June 20, 2012 at 6:52 PM

Yep. Couple minutes on local new site. Couple minutes on Drudge and catch maybe a glimpse of CNN or ABC national news to see what the DNC has sent out for the day. No need to waste time on TV or a newspaper.

And none of these folks understand why they are almost out of business.

oldroy on June 20, 2012 at 6:55 PM

Wow. So we should open up the floodgates? So you want to arm the Drug gangs and keep any way for the average Mexican citizen to defend themselves with a gun away from them?

oldroy on June 20, 2012 at 6:48 PM

Well, we do know that Drew Lowell doesn’t have a lot of concern for how many more Jaime Zapatas or Brian Terrys there may end up being because of 0bamessiah’s administration’s callousness and recklessness…

PS Katie Pavelich, on Fox News right now, is an adorable cutie! :)

Bizarro No. 1 on June 20, 2012 at 6:56 PM

The idea of a scum like Darrel Issa having anything to do with Government Oversight and Reform was always a sick joke. This is only the latest iteration. The American public will not be fooled. The suggestion that the killings wouldn’t have happened without F&F guns –because there is no way Mexican drug gangs could get guns– was always ridiculous, and it remains so. Any remaining respect anyone could have for the Republican-led House continues to drain away.

Drew Lowell on June 20, 2012 at 6:44 PM

Lol. What the hell?

HB3 on June 20, 2012 at 6:56 PM

The suggestion that the killings wouldn’t have happened without F&F guns –because there is no way Mexican drug gangs could get guns– was always ridiculous, and it remains so. Any remaining respect anyone could have for the Republican-led House continues to drain away.

Drew Lowell on June 20, 2012 at 6:44 PM

Horse Manure. The whole point of F&F was to create a scenario of Mexican Border Carnage at the hands of ‘Corrupt American Gunshops’ so that Obama and the DOJ could push for stricter gun laws. This was the narrative that they were pushing themselves in 2009-10. This isn’t something Republicans invented. It comes from Obama, Holder and even SOS Clinton. None of those people are members of the ‘Republican-led House.’ but they will lose ‘Any remaining respect anyone could have’ as you say, so shove it, troll.

Corporal Tunnel on June 20, 2012 at 6:57 PM

oldroy is right. The government of the United States should do everything in its power to limit access to guns.

Drew Lowell on June 20, 2012 at 6:54 PM

Looks like they’ve already been trying to do this. And it doesn’t look much like a constitutional convention does it?

oldroy on June 20, 2012 at 6:57 PM

oldroy is right. The government of the United States should do everything in its power to limit access to guns.

Drew Lowell on June 20, 2012 at 6:54 PM

And no, you stupid fool, that wasn’t the point and you damn well know it.

oldroy on June 20, 2012 at 6:59 PM

Let’s consider another angle, just to demonstrate what we don’t know.

What if Holder never wanted to do F&F, warned against it in writing, but was forced to do it by Valerie Jarrett? Now they are keeping him from revealing that to protect Jarrett and little Bammie. Imagine how that would be gnawing at Holder all these months.

Now it appears they may want him to “roll over for Obama”

/Hypothetical.

slickwillie2001 on June 20, 2012 at 6:08 PM

Holder not wanting to do F&F is unlikely. As Janet Reno’s DAG under Clinton, he was DOJ’s “point man” on gun control. The Assault Weapon Ban had his fingerprints all over it, even to the point of him getting slapped down hard by SCOTUS for trying to use it to ban lever-action, tube-magazine repeating arms, which the law was specifically written to exclude.

His take? “We are going to use this law to capture a whole new class of weapons.”

This was after SCOTUS told him to pull in his horns. He narrowly missed being held in contempt of the Supreme Court.

I think it is more likely that F&F originated in DOJ, or more exactly BATFE, as a sort of “Wide Receiver Redux”, to avoid The One and The Hill having to walk back their statements (in 2009) about “90% of guns used in crimes in Mexico come from U.S. gunshops”. That’s been a part of liberal anti-gun dogma for a couple of decades, and of course The One and His SecState Know That The Dogma Is Never Wrong.

F&F may have simply been an effort to make them look good.

But over time, I suspect mission creep set in.

First, a desire for tougher gun laws (it would be great propaganda). Then a desire for pushing drug legalization (after all, all the Smart, Sophisticated People know that drugs are harmless, fun, and good for you). And finally maybe even a desire for increased illegal immigration (more “undocumented” Democrat voters, courtesy of SEIU and ACORN).

This probably explains the BATFE exec’s letter saying, “If you don’t think this will be fun…” BATFE’s corporate culture has been one of a holy crusade against civilian gun ownership in this country since the agency’s inception. (Under Nixon, interestingly enough- before he made it a bureau, and charged it with enforcing GCA 68, it was a minor section of Treasury mainly concerned with chasing moonshiners.) They no doubt saw it as a chance to be proactive in campaigning against guns and their owners.

But it only works as long as the public doesn’t find out that it’s their own government supplying the guns to the drug gangs.

Once that cat is out of the bag, any real or perceived potential benefits are almost certain to be destroyed by the blowback.

I’m sure Holder was “on board” with this right from the beginning. It fits his MO, so to speak.

I’m equally sure he ran it past The One before going ahead. And I’m sure He approved. From the combination of dogmatism and arrogance that has been His trademark from Day One.

As for The Hill, she probably thought it was a great idea, too. After all, her contempt for “red state rednecks” has never been exactly a secret, even when she was First Lady of Arkansas. She no doubt saw this a great whip for the backs of same.

And after all, “gun control”, by hook or by crook, is progressive religious dogma, and has been for a long time. (Charlie Schumer even called it that once on the Senate floor, IIRC.)

I think they’d have been better advised to read some Frank Herbert, first;

When religion and politics travel in the same cart, the riders believe nothing can stand in their way. Their movements become headlong- faster and faster and faster. They put aside all thought of obstacles and forget that a precipice does not show itself to the man in a blind rush until it’s too late.

- Bene Gesserit proverb.

clear ether

eon

eon on June 20, 2012 at 6:59 PM

oldroy on June 20, 2012 at 6:55 PM

Yeah, it’s really a shame. I’d like a half-decent news station … and one that doesn’t run dead reruns from 11pm to 5am, as they all seem to do. I actually have to go to Bloomberg for late night news (and the cheering for the Indonesian and the wonders of fried chi-hua-hua) that’s live. Even Fox Business doesn’t run anything decent until Stuart Varney finally comes on at 9:20am. I can’t believe they have that disgusting piece of sh!t Imus on before that. What an idiot.

Yeah, it’s pretty much all internet for news. Nothing else exists at this point.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on June 20, 2012 at 6:59 PM

The American public will not be fooled. The suggestion that the killings wouldn’t have happened without F&F guns –because there is no way Mexican drug gangs could get guns– was always ridiculous, and it remains so. Any remaining respect anyone could have for the Republican-led House continues to drain away.

Drew Lowell on June 20, 2012 at 6:44 PM

Liberal scumbags like Drew always feign moral outrage in these things. The issue, of course, is not if Mexican drug cartels could or could not arm themselves without Operation F&F. That’s Drew’s feeble-minded attempt of changing the context.

The fact of the matter is that the arms were provided via the DoJ and nobody can explain why the ATF wasn’t tracking the arms they were selling to these cartels. This requires Congressional oversight which is what Issa has been trying to do for the past 16 months as Holder has been caught in lie after lie under oath to Congress (ask Clemmons about the justice in that fact). The public has the right to ask what did Holder/Obama know and when did they know it. The fact of the matter is that GOP stock went up today and Dem’s are looking more and more corrupt.

Happy Nomad on June 20, 2012 at 7:00 PM

The government of the United States should do everything in its power to limit access to guns.

Drew Lowell on June 20, 2012 at 6:54 PM

There are rules in place to qualify buyers’ credentials. Dealers were told to ignore them. And you don’t have an issue with that? WOW.

hillsoftx on June 20, 2012 at 7:00 PM

oldroy is right. The government of the United States should do everything in its power to limit access to guns.

Drew Lowell on June 20, 2012 at 6:54 PM

This is the best argument you can make for gun control? That the shootings would have happened anyway? Isn’t that an argument for law-abiding citizens to have guns for protection?

oldroy on June 20, 2012 at 7:01 PM

Holder and obama killed Brian Terry – this alone should be enough to remove both of them from office.

Pork-Chop on June 20, 2012 at 7:02 PM

Drew Lowell on June 20, 2012 at 6:54 PM

If libtardordie loses his partner,I believe we have a replacement.

hillsoftx on June 20, 2012 at 7:02 PM

The idea of a scum like Darrel Issa having anything to do with Government Oversight and Reform was always a sick joke. This is only the latest iteration. The American public will not be fooled. The suggestion that the killings wouldn’t have happened without F&F guns –because there is no way Mexican drug gangs could get guns– was always ridiculous, and it remains so. Any remaining respect anyone could have for the Republican-led House continues to drain away.

Drew Lowell on June 20, 2012 at 6:44 PM

I feel a mighty disturbance in The Farce. Teh Stupid is strong with this one.

oldroy is right. The government of the United States should do everything in its power to limit access to guns.

Drew Lowell on June 20, 2012 at 6:54 PM

Very strong. That whole Second Amendment thing is a real obstacle.

novaculus on June 20, 2012 at 7:03 PM

“Even recalcitrant Republicans who think a court battle with The One is a needless distraction have no choice but to go to the mat for Issa now that O’s pulled his power play with executive privilege.”

Am I the only one who thinks this is a complete fu%&ing disaster for Democrats? This story necessarily goes mainstream now, and the plain facts and timelines are something sane Democrats should be sprinting away from as fast as possible. Rational, independent-minded Americans are not going to see this as a “distraction” or a “fake scandal” at all, and they will be curious as to why Obama chose to invoke executive privilege at this particular juncture. Obama has just handcuffed himself and his party to a liar and a coward who will be remembered as one of the most inept, buffoonish AGs in history. Have fun with that, Dems.

stout77 on June 20, 2012 at 7:03 PM

Any remaining respect anyone could have for the Republican-led House continues to drain away.

Drew Lowell on June 20, 2012 at 6:44 PM

Agent Terry WAS killed with one of the F&F guns, pal. Your hypothetical arugment that he would have been killed whether OF&F happend or not is specious on it’s face.

It doesn’t bother you a bit that the President asserted Exec Priv today over documents that he stated in the past he had no knowledge of? You don’t see the incongruity?

I was an outraged Republican when Nixon tried the same crap. You are a joke.

DrW on June 20, 2012 at 7:04 PM

If anyone missed today’s hearing, you can find it here:

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/HolderM

bluefox on June 20, 2012 at 7:04 PM

Heh.

I haven’t watched Fox in over a year. They went off the deep end when they chucked Beck. I watch Fox Business when I have to get TV news (they’re not so hot, either, but better than Fox News, for sure). Frankly, there are no good news stations on TV anymore. Not a one.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on June 20, 2012 at 6:52 PM

Yep, Fox Biz is the best there is unfortunately. You’re a great American !
LOL

Mr. Arrogant on June 20, 2012 at 7:09 PM

I do think there are misgivings among the leadership about pursuing this (Fox News is hearing that too), not only because it’ll push Romney off center stage but because I think Republicans in Congress are still shellshocked by the political beating they took when they went after Clinton in the late 1990s.

They took a beating because the core of the case was still a BJ from a fat chick. It was easy to spin that away as frivolous.

The core of this is illegal gun smuggling and 200 dead bodies including a US agent. You’re comparing apples and porcupines.

Chuck Schick on June 20, 2012 at 7:10 PM

The core of this is illegal gun smuggling and 200 dead bodies including a US agent. You’re comparing apples and porcupines.

Chuck Schick on June 20, 2012 at 7:10 PM

Close shave on that one.

oldroy on June 20, 2012 at 7:13 PM

I think it’s very nice of President Obama to use his executive privilege to cover for Bush. Obviously he feels a bit guilty about blaming him for EVERYTHING ELSE.

BadgerHawk on June 20, 2012 at 7:13 PM

how exactly does O spin this? “Can you believe these Republicans wasting America’s time by demanding to know about my gunrunning operation?”

Seriously, if memory serves, didn’t the Democrats have public hearings on drugs in sports and the BCS? Thank God, no one was killed.

Cindy Munford on June 20, 2012 at 7:14 PM

oldroy is right. The government of the United States should do everything in its power to limit access to guns.

Drew Lowell on June 20, 2012 at 6:54 PM

Well, then you’re on board with frog marching Eric Holder , Lanny Bruer, and the rest of those who broke federal gun sales laws off to jail. What’s the problem sparky?

Fighton03 on June 20, 2012 at 7:14 PM

The absolute stupidest part of this mess is NOT the idea that the shooters of Terry, Zapata and the others had no other source of guns than F&F, or that the victims of those weapons would somehow not still be dead.

The stupidest part is NOT Issa’s ongoing “request for documents” that could not possibly reveal something worse than people dying from a botched DoJ sting, which everyone already knows and which Holder has already admitted. Issa and the GOP’s motives are 100% about politics and zero about justice.

No, the stupidest part is the absurd paranoid rant of the wingnuts:

The whole point of F&F was to create a scenario of Mexican Border Carnage at the hands of ‘Corrupt American Gunshops’ so that Obama and the DOJ could push for stricter gun laws.

I have marveled at the ability of the NRA to stir up you gun nuts against the President, even though his Administration has done nothing to restrict access to firearms. I shouldn’t have been surprised. The sick “anti-gun conspiracy” fantasy regarding the F&F operation shows you people really will believe anything.

Drew Lowell on June 20, 2012 at 7:15 PM

hillsoftx on June 20, 2012 at 7:02 PM

oh noes!!1!! sh**head critical mass!!1!! thermonucular dumbass meltdown!!/////////////111/11

novaculus on June 20, 2012 at 7:16 PM

The sick “anti-gun conspiracy” fantasy regarding the F&F operation shows you people really will believe anything.

Drew Lowell on June 20, 2012 at 7:15 PM

Then falsify the hypothesis.

Fighton03 on June 20, 2012 at 7:17 PM

I shouldn’t have been surprised. The sick “anti-gun conspiracy” fantasy regarding the F&F operation shows you people really will believe anything.

Drew Lowell on June 20, 2012 at 7:15 PM

So you know what would shut them up? Releasing the documents, you dumbass.

Chuck Schick on June 20, 2012 at 7:18 PM

Issa and the GOP’s motives are 100% about politics and zero about justice.

That’s just what Sheila Jackson Lee said.Great minds think alike.

oldroy on June 20, 2012 at 7:18 PM

Oy. Andrea Tantaros is on The Five agreeing with Bob Beckel that this will backfire on the GOP.

BuckeyeSam on June 20, 2012 at 5:23 PM

I thought her reaction was odd- I would agree ONLY to the extent that it will take the focus off the economy briefly; however I think Romney can work it into all his arguements as to Obama’s honesty and competence as President. Fast and Furious is a big friggin’ deal and Barry’s administration is hiding something. That Andrea Tantaros isn’t all that smart anyway- she tends to follow basic party line arguements, without adding much of her own.

BettyRuth on June 20, 2012 at 6:39 PM

Fast and Furious was done with little Bammie’s Stimulus money, incredibly. There’s your tie-in to little Bammie’s failed economy. Governor Romney can bounce back and forth between the two all day.

slickwillie2001 on June 20, 2012 at 7:18 PM

For some unknown reason Obama must be unable to throw Holder under the bus. Does Holder know where some bodies are buried? Does Holder have some Polaroids or photocopies or something? Maybe the documents implicate Obama in some way. Or maybe it could lose votes in an election year.

Whatever the reason, enquiring minds would like to know.

farsighted on June 20, 2012 at 7:19 PM

The government of the United States should do everything in its power to limit access to guns.

Drew Lowell on June 20, 2012 at 6:54 PM

Yeah, that’s the reason F&F was hatched by the obaa administration. The horror of American guns killing innocent, poor Mexicans would make their gun grab that much easier.
Then, a US Border Agent was killed and people started asking questions.
But, don’t worry, little Drew. I’m betting where you live, only the criminals have guns. Like Chicago. And DC.

HornetSting on June 20, 2012 at 7:19 PM

Cindy Munford on June 20, 2012 at 7:14 PM

Priorities, Cindy. Priorities.

How are you this PM? Is the computer issue resolved?

novaculus on June 20, 2012 at 7:20 PM

OT – Dude I just saw a Obama commerical in Minnesota!

Internals must be horrible if they are spending money here.

gophergirl on June 20, 2012 at 7:21 PM

Whatever the reason, enquiring minds would like to know.

farsighted on June 20, 2012 at 7:19 PM

corruption in office requires control of those who investigate and prosecute that corruption.

Fighton03 on June 20, 2012 at 7:21 PM

OT – Dude I just saw a Obama commerical in Minnesota!

Internals must be horrible if they are spending money here.

gophergirl on June 20, 2012 at 7:21 PM

ObamaCare ruling could be tomorrow. Another week like this, they’ll be running ads on Berkeley Public Access.

Chuck Schick on June 20, 2012 at 7:23 PM

…”The American public will not be fooled”[forever]… Drew Lowell on June 20, 2012 at 6:44 PM

Fify Loweel!
You almost got 1 part in 10 parts right,
’bout on par for BO’s slippery scribblers!

“Let’s Roll”

On Watch on June 20, 2012 at 7:23 PM

Drew Lowell on June 20, 2012 at 7:15 PM

Go crawl back under your rock, slimeball. You’re a pathetic low-life:

In Fast and Furious, ATF secretly encouraged gun dealers to sell to suspected traffickers for Mexican drug cartels to go after the “big fish.” But ATF whistleblowers told CBS News and Congress it was a dangerous practice called “gunwalking,” and it put thousands of weapons on the street. Many were used in violent crimes in Mexico. Two were found at the murder scene of a U.S. Border Patrol agent.

ATF officials didn’t intend to publicly disclose their own role in letting Mexican cartels obtain the weapons, but emails show they discussed using the sales, including sales encouraged by ATF, to justify a new gun regulation called “Demand Letter 3″. That would require some U.S. gun shops to report the sale of multiple rifles or “long guns.” Demand Letter 3 was so named because it would be the third ATF program demanding gun dealers report tracing information.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-57338546-10391695/documents-atf-used-fast-and-furious-to-make-the-case-for-gun-regulations/

And the ATF went further than this.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on June 20, 2012 at 7:23 PM

48 minutes ago WASHINGTON – The family of an Immigration and Customs agent slain in Mexico has filed a $25 million wrongful death claim against the U.S. government.
A pair of South Texas law firms representing the family of ICE Agent Jaime Zapata filed the claim June 14 and named ICE, the FBI, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and the Justice Department as defendants. Attorneys for Zapata’s parents, Mary and Amador Zapata, named several supervisors at the agencies and FBI Director Robert Mueller and Attorney General Eric Holder.
The claim notice is a precursor to a lawsuit.
A Justice Department spokesman declined to comment.
Attorneys in the case, Raymond Thomas and Benigno Martinez, were out of the office and could not be reached for comment Wednesday.
Zapata was killed in a roadside attack near San Luis Potosi in northern Mexico in February 2011. Fellow agent Victor Avila was wounded.

Dr Evil on June 20, 2012 at 7:23 PM

I have marveled at the ability of the NRA to stir up you gun nuts against the President, even though his Administration has done nothing to restrict access to firearms. I shouldn’t have been surprised. The sick “anti-gun conspiracy” fantasy regarding the F&F operation shows you people really will believe anything.

Drew Lowell on June 20, 2012 at 7:15 PM

Really…..

Wolfmoon on June 20, 2012 at 7:24 PM

Ugh.

Stop feeding the child troll.

Someone get him his lithium! Stat!

exsanguine on June 20, 2012 at 7:26 PM

I’m hoping romney comes out and says something the the effect of:

“As President of the United States, the day after my inauguration, all the documents will be released to the House committee that has been requesting them for over 18 months. I am calling on President Obama and AG Holder to publically state and promise they will protect all evidence and neither shred, destroy, delete nor otherwise make it disappear.”

Khun Joe on June 20, 2012 at 7:27 PM

exsanguine on June 20, 2012 at 7:26 PM

but we haven’t even hit 400 comments yet

Fighton03 on June 20, 2012 at 7:27 PM

Rant on about this drool..

Wolfmoon on June 20, 2012 at 7:27 PM

MY BAD!!

“Romney”… no disrespect intended…

Khun Joe on June 20, 2012 at 7:28 PM

According to documents filed by the lawyers, Avila, Zapata and others told supervisors they had safety concerns about the trip, but the pair was ordered to go anyway.

“All of these legitimate concerns were put aside … and agents Avila and Zapata were required to follow orders,” the lawyers wrote.

And according to all the democrats on the congressional oversight and reform committee “today” there is no need for any more documents from DOJ or any more need for investigations.

Dr Evil on June 20, 2012 at 7:28 PM

I have marveled at the ability of the NRA to stir up you gun nuts against the President, even though his Administration has done nothing to restrict access to firearms. I shouldn’t have been surprised. The sick “anti-gun conspiracy” fantasy regarding the F&F operation shows you people really will believe anything.

Drew Lowell on June 20, 2012 at 7:15 PM

All of this is well-documented. They were saying that “90 percent of guns used in Mexican crime came from the U.S.” and these are their own words, not the NRA’s or any ‘gun-nuts.’ They insidiously created a crisis that would have required their progressive ‘solution’ which happens to be more gun control. Gun Control is leftist dogma. You advocate for it yourself on this same thread. Don’t be coy.

That they haven’t been able to restrict access to firearms is a non sequitur because that doesn’t mean that they didn’t have designs to do so.

If there’s nothing there, then why won’t Holder release the documents? Agent Terry died because the DOJ let the gun that killed him walk across the border.

Demonizing your opposition doesn’t work because you have no facts.

Corporal Tunnel on June 20, 2012 at 7:29 PM

The idea of a scum like Darrel Issa having anything to do with Government Oversight and Reform was always a sick joke. This is only the latest iteration. The American public will not be fooled. The suggestion that the killings wouldn’t have happened without F&F guns –because there is no way Mexican drug gangs could get guns– was always ridiculous, and it remains so. Any remaining respect anyone could have for the Republican-led House continues to drain away.

Drew Lowell on June 20, 2012 at 6:44 PM

lol, the only Axelrod Talking Point you left out was that Issa is the Richest Man in Congress.

Of course, that’s because he no longer is.

F-

Del Dolemonte on June 20, 2012 at 7:30 PM

The government of the United States should do everything in its power to limit access to guns.

Drew Lowell on June 20, 2012 at 6:54 PM

Why?

Del Dolemonte on June 20, 2012 at 7:31 PM

I’m hoping romney comes out and says something the the effect of:

“As President of the United States, the day after my inauguration, all the documents will be released to the House committee that has been requesting them for over 18 months. I am calling on President Obama and AG Holder to publically state and promise they will protect all evidence and neither shred, destroy, delete nor otherwise make it disappear.”

Khun Joe on June 20, 2012 at 7:27 PM

And make Obozo / Holder SWEAR that they won’t – so they can both be sent to jail as soon as it comes to light that they lied, Eric Holder should ALREADY be in jail – at least this way he’ll go one way or another.

KMC1 on June 20, 2012 at 7:32 PM

I have marveled at the ability of the NRA to stir up you gun nuts against the President, even though his Administration has done nothing to restrict access to firearms. I shouldn’t have been surprised. The sick “anti-gun conspiracy” fantasy regarding the F&F operation shows you people really will believe anything.

Drew Lowell on June 20, 2012 at 7:15 PM

Another example of what I’ve been thinking all day. This is the best of the left’s arguments? And we’re afraid of what? If this and previous posts by this guy were put in front of all of America, 80% would recoil in horror. And, even so, will our Congress (and our party) do what they morally, ethically and lawfully should do?

Even if it was as AP sort of proposes as a possible political loser (which it isn’t), do we just say “F” it, it ain’t worth it?

oldroy on June 20, 2012 at 7:33 PM

Watching this recalcitrant corpulant pus bag drew Lowell get pummelled by the truth is worth the price of admission.

tom daschle concerned on June 20, 2012 at 7:34 PM

No, the stupidest part is the absurd paranoid rant of the wingnuts:

The whole point of F&F was to create a scenario of Mexican Border Carnage at the hands of ‘Corrupt American Gunshops’ so that Obama and the DOJ could push for stricter gun laws.

I have marveled at the ability of the NRA to stir up you gun nuts against the President, even though his Administration has done nothing to restrict access to firearms. I shouldn’t have been surprised. The sick “anti-gun conspiracy” fantasy regarding the F&F operation shows you people really will believe anything.

Drew Lowell on June 20, 2012 at 7:15 PM

O’bama himself told Sarah Brady and her husband that his “Administration” was going to do something to control guns. He said they would do it “under the radar”.

F-

Del Dolemonte on June 20, 2012 at 7:35 PM

ObamaCare ruling could be tomorrow. Another week like this, they’ll be running ads on Berkeley Public Access.

Chuck Schick on June 20, 2012 at 7:23 PM

I think a SCOTUS opinion upholding SB1070 will be even harsher in this light. Both of the other two branches slapping down the Obie admin on issues related to enforcement of federal law at the mexican border would definitely put a crimp in his amnesty EO and all vRomney needs to say is “Look at how much effort this president puts into evading the law when he could be fixing the economy”.

Fighton03 on June 20, 2012 at 7:35 PM

Drew Lowell on June 20, 2012 at 7:15 PM

New troll here?
I don’t recognize this one.

Count to 10 on June 20, 2012 at 7:37 PM

So you know what would shut them up? Releasing the documents, you dumbass.

Chuck Schick on June 20, 2012 at 7:18 PM

Great response.

GaltBlvnAtty on June 20, 2012 at 7:38 PM

OT – Dude I just saw a Obama commerical in Minnesota!

Internals must be horrible if they are spending money here.

gophergirl on June 20, 2012 at 7:21 PM

He started running them on Boston TV last week in the 6 PM-6:30 PM time slot. During “Seinfeld” reruns on TV38, which has a huge audience.

That’s right. He’s running them in Massachusetts.

Del Dolemonte on June 20, 2012 at 7:39 PM

Holy cow…is this the smoking gun, right out there in the open on the interwebz? (Thanks, Algore!)
http://www.therightscoop.com/bombshell-proof-obama-and-holder-knew-about-gun-walking-in-2009/

hoosiermama on June 20, 2012 at 7:42 PM

New troll here?
I don’t recognize this one.

Maybe it’s been in the shadows, lurking and waiting.

oldroy on June 20, 2012 at 7:43 PM

Over at Daily Kos, all the Drew Lowell’s are simply content with the idea that F&F was a simply a massively stupid but harmless program and that any further inquiry is a partisan witch hunt, because who cares about hundreds of dead Mexicans and one dead US agent.

MSM: “These are not the goons you are looking for.” *waves hand*

pedestrian on June 20, 2012 at 7:43 PM

Simple question, yes or no: Should U.S. gun shops, “near the border” or elsewhere, be required to report multiple sales of rifles/long guns to law enforcement?

Drew Lowell on June 20, 2012 at 7:44 PM

And the MSM story on this tonight will be all of…..2 minutes?

jake49 on June 20, 2012 at 7:44 PM

That’s right. He’s running them in Massachusetts.

Del Dolemonte on June 20, 2012 at 7:39 PM

New Hampsphire is a suburb of Boston.

pedestrian on June 20, 2012 at 7:45 PM

Simple question, yes or no: Should U.S. gun shops, “near the border” or elsewhere, be required to report multiple sales of rifles/long guns to law enforcement?

Drew Lowell on June 20, 2012 at 7:44 PM

Wow.

oldroy on June 20, 2012 at 7:46 PM

novaculus on June 20, 2012 at 7:20 PM

Just got on. It seems okay. I probably won’t stick around long, have to be a work at 7 a.m. to give the MCAT tomorrow.

Cindy Munford on June 20, 2012 at 7:46 PM

Drew Lowell on June 20, 2012 at 7:44 PM

I believe that many of the gun shops used in this action, called the ATF to give them a heads up on what they were seeing. They were told to go ahead and make the sales.

Cindy Munford on June 20, 2012 at 7:48 PM

Simple question, yes or no: Should U.S. gun shops, “near the border” or elsewhere, be required to report multiple sales of rifles/long guns to law enforcement?

Drew Lowell on June 20, 2012 at 7:44 PM

The answer is right there in the commerce clause, like everything else imaginable. Just got to strain a bit.

a capella on June 20, 2012 at 7:49 PM

I have marveled at the ability of the NRA to stir up you gun nuts against the President, even though his Administration has done nothing to restrict access to firearms.

Drew Lowell on June 20, 2012 at 7:15 PM

Like the M1 Ban? You are deeply uninformed.

G- (patent pending Del Dolemonte)

dogsoldier on June 20, 2012 at 7:50 PM

I believe that many of the gun shops used in this action, called the ATF to give them a heads up on what they were seeing. They were told to go ahead and make the sales.

Cindy Munford on June 20, 2012 at 7:48 PM

Issa’s committee has the calls to ATF on tape.

CaptainNed on June 20, 2012 at 7:52 PM

Drew Lowell on June 20, 2012 at 6:44 PM

Just a thought, but you might wanna cut back on the urine in your Rice Krispies tomorrow morning.

LaserBeam on June 20, 2012 at 6:49 PM

…see how they keep popping up!…We may have to start krapping in his cereal bowl!

KOOLAID2 on June 20, 2012 at 7:55 PM

The government of the United States should do everything in its power to limit access to guns.

Drew Lowell on June 20, 2012 at 6:54 PM

Why?

Del Dolemonte on June 20, 2012 at 7:31 PM

So we can be a defenseless as the Mexican people. That would allow the government to treat us a subjects instead of citizens.

To me the second amdendment is the most important because without it the rest of the Bill of Rights become privileges. Like any privilege they can be revoked.

banzaibob on June 20, 2012 at 7:55 PM

New troll here?
I don’t recognize this one.

Count to 10 on June 20, 2012 at 7:37 PM

Probably a “specialist”, getting the OWS types to be conversant on more than one subject has proven to be both counterproductive and embarrassing.

Cindy Munford on June 20, 2012 at 7:57 PM

hoosiermama on June 20, 2012 at 7:42 PM

Those statements have been known for some time. Interesting dovetails into F&F, but they are talking about Gunrunner, the umbrella op. They admit knowledge of everything except what was happening out of the Phoenix BATFE and US Attorney offices.

novaculus on June 20, 2012 at 7:58 PM

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