Open thread: Obama’s Chip Diller speech in Ohio

posted at 12:41 pm on June 14, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

As Barack Obama prepares for his “reframing” speech in Ohio at 1:45 ET today, Republicans on Capitol Hill have already produced a response to his likely strategy of whining about dealing with a do-nothing Congress.  John Boehner has a simple visual retort — standing next to a large table completely covered in jobs bills passed by the GOP-controlled House that the Democratic-controlled Senate has refused to consider. Of course, as Boehner reminds us, Senate Democrats haven’t even passed a budget in more than three years:

With President Barack Obama set to take his message on the economy to John Boehner’s backyard, the Republican House Speaker landed a preemptive blow Thursday with a video blaming Senate Democrats for a congressional logjam that has stalled bills meant to create jobs.

In the video, the Ohio lawmaker points to documents covering his desk, identifying them as House-passed legislation now blocked by the Democratic-held Senate.

“This isn’t just our work — it’s your work in progress,” Boehner says.

“You see, we’re going to keep adding to this pile, and we’re going to keep calling on President Obama and Democrats in the Senate to give these jobs bills a vote,” he says.

Meanwhile, Mitt Romney isn’t letting the opportunity to pass, either.  He will deliver his own speech on the economy in Ohio, which is scheduled to start five minutes after Obama starts speaking, at 1:50.  That assumes, of course, that Obama will actually begin his speech on time, as Gabriel Malor pointed out on Twitter:

The Associated Press reports on the battle of Ohio shaping up today,and the delicious karma:

Sharpening the choice for the nation, President Barack Obama and Republican presidential challenger Mitt Romney are offering dueling visions of how to fix the economy, framing in their most direct terms the fierce debate that will decide the November election. In a flash of campaign drama, the two are giving major speeches at nearly the same time Thursday from the same state, battleground Ohio. …

Romney will talk about cutting regulation and spending, overhauling the tax system, doing away with Obama’s health care overhaul and supporting a major oil pipeline known as Keystone XL. Setting his own expectations for Obama, Romney told donors in Cincinnati: “He’ll speak with great rhetoric and eloquence. But actions and records speak a heck of a lot louder than words.”

Without doubt, Romney and Obama have starkly different visions of economic rebirth, the issue of top concern for voters. To hear them tell it, Obama thinks Romney’s jobs philosophy is a failed notion of just cutting taxes and gutting regulation, while Romney says the president is a big-government defender who is stifling the free market at the cost of economic acceleration.

Of the two, Obama is carrying more of a political burden because, as the guy in charge, he is saddled with a lumbering economic recovery. Romney can largely blame the incumbent – just as Obama, as a candidate, benefited from blaming President George W. Bush.

One interesting factoid: the White House doesn’t have this speech on the President’s official schedule.  In fact, they don’t have anything on the schedule for Obama today, including an official event at the World Trade Center site to get briefed on progress.  Talk about lowering expectations

Let’s keep this as an open thread.  For fun, I’ll give you this preview of President Obama’s speech:

Maybe that’s a little too negative.  It’s probably more like this:

This lyric might actually appear in the speech: “I hope you learn it note for note, like good little children.”

Update: From the comments, we might expect a little lot of this, too:


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Ampersand

Its martin lapdog bashir of course they are digging his speech

cmsinaz on June 14, 2012 at 3:10 PM

Does anyone get the impression he’s intentionally trying to lose this election? I can think of reasons why he’d do that, especially with the threat of Holder having to resign.

Nah, what you’re seeing/hearing is the SS Narcissist running aground on the shoals of reality.

Soetoro still thinks he can lower the oceans and improve the climate simply by giving a speech, but the rest of us who live outside of Barry’s head now see that the “One We’ve Been Waiting For”, the Philosopher King, America’s Pericles, is nothing more than a two-bit street hustler with a gift for spreading bull flop.

MidniteRambler on June 14, 2012 at 3:10 PM

mitt is going to spend a billion dollars….really obama??

cmsinaz on June 14, 2012 at 2:48 PM

I don’t care if Romney spends $100 billion. Obama set the rules for this game four years ago. Remember when Mr. Righteous decried the influence of moneyed special interests in presidential elections, and challenged the person who would be the Republican presidential candidate to accept public funding — then, oops, Obama realized that he could make more money for his campaign by not accepting public funding, so he $hit-canned his lofty so-called “principles” and pretended he’d never promised to use public funding?

Obama had no problem with huge amounts of money from special interests when it was reported that a billion dollars of it would be financing his 2012 campaign. He’s just pi$$ed now because he’s hearing that Romney is getting more money than he is. Obama only has a problem with big-money interests paying to influence elections when the candidate they’re helping is not him.

AZCoyote on June 14, 2012 at 3:10 PM

Debt produces as much slavery as “taxation.”

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 3:04 PM

____________________________________

You know what happens when those credit card applications come in the mail?

Yup, right in the trash.

I guess I’ll tell the IRS I’ll pay them when I feel like it, then.

Man, you are monumentally stupid. Get out much?

ICanSeeNovFromMyHouse on June 14, 2012 at 3:11 PM

Johnathan Capehart may need Witness Protection now.

I guess we’ll never see him again.

faraway on June 14, 2012 at 3:11 PM

I know I’m biased but I don’t think this speech moved the ball much if at all.

WisRich on June 14, 2012 at 3:11 PM

Debt produces as much slavery as “taxation.”

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 3:04 PM

I’m living a successful and debt free life. Guess I just beat the system. Or maybe I’m just better than you.

Ampersand on June 14, 2012 at 3:12 PM

Tru dat azcoyote

cmsinaz on June 14, 2012 at 3:12 PM

MSNBC:

“Honestly one of the least successful speeches I’ve seen Obama give.”

faraway on June 14, 2012 at 2:56 PM

Whoa! That’s gonna sting a bit.

dogsoldier on June 14, 2012 at 3:05 PM

A bit ??? That spells kaputski for barkey and his campaign….

jimver on June 14, 2012 at 3:12 PM

Obama’s Father’s Day

Excerpt:

…Composite, world-spirit, or just over-estrosgenized, Obama has a bizarre view of fatherhood.

Of course, all Progressives see themselves as surrogate fathers to the benighted public. They think the public is so simple-minded that the average joe cannot put the correct shoe on the correct foot without government assistance. Government exists in the Progressive worldview to micromanage the behavior of the People. (This is what Benito Mussolini meant by the term Totalitarianism, which he coined not as a pejorative but as a way of saying that the State should act as an intimately involved father, a helicopter parent involved in all aspects of life.) Barack Obama undoubtedly thinks of himself as the ripest cheese in the Progressive delicatessen, and so envisions himself as the father of fathers.

I suspect Obama sees himself as a sort of reverse George Washington, a guy who is the father of our NEW country, the remaker of America. “We are the ones we have been waiting for” he once proclaimed, and he believes it. What Obama has sought to foster is a cult of personality, much like tinhorn dictators and Communist strongmen have sought for a long time. He seeks to portray himself as bigger than life, bigger than the average man. And the key to being bigger is to be Il Papa, the father. He wouldn’t be the first man in history to attempt this trick in political life…

Lourdes on June 14, 2012 at 3:12 PM

Just turned on MSNBC myself. They seem happy with the speech now. Just bashing Romney’s “nonsense.” Guess that didn’t last long.

of al msnbc shows Martin Bashir is the most socialist bigoted host in the world. He’ makes keith Olbermann fair and balanced

gerrym51 on June 14, 2012 at 3:13 PM

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 3:04 PM

People are FREE in the USA…at least we were. And does FREEDOM mean that people can be stupid and make terrible choices? Sure does. (Abortions happen every second). I guess you favor a Nanny state where they micromanage every aspect of your life. That is slavery.

I blame Hollywood for making people go into debt…since people can’t be expected to be responsible for their own choices.

kirkill on June 14, 2012 at 3:13 PM

I know I’m biased but I don’t think this speech moved the ball much if at all.

WisRich on June 14, 2012 at 3:11 PM

You don’t need bias to come to that conclusion. Merely a pulse.

Doughboy on June 14, 2012 at 3:14 PM

1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.

5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my friend is the beginning of the end of any society.

Schadenfreude on June 14, 2012 at 3:15 PM

I would imagine that Obama’s “fair shake” comes right before he pulls up his fly.

onlineanalyst on June 14, 2012 at 3:15 PM

kim roy on June 14, 2012 at 3:09 PM

I kind of ditto’d you. The whole choice, responsibility…you know, being an adult, that’s what lib-slave-ordie doesn’t get…cheers to you kim roy.

kirkill on June 14, 2012 at 3:16 PM

You know I often post that you have come up with the dumbest question or comment I have ever read and then…

Where did you get your start up capital?

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 2:47 PM

I’m sorry, but I thought you believed in capitalism. Isn’t capitalism always about finding the cheapest possible labor source?

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 2:43 PM

Deanna on June 14, 2012 at 3:16 PM

OMG

this is surreal….he shuts up the market gains 90 points within a 1/4 hour…..

harlekwin15 on June 14, 2012 at 3:17 PM

zzzzzzzzzzzz. Is it over?

CherryBombsBigBrownBeaver on June 14, 2012 at 3:17 PM

Schadenfreude on June 14, 2012 at 3:15 PM

Sorry, that should have been a quote.

Schadenfreude on June 14, 2012 at 3:17 PM

Honestly, what kind of speech could Barack give that would move the needle? What could he possibly say, given that the country knows what kind of president he is and will continue to be. The only speech that I think would draw any interest now is the one that starts with “I called Gov. Romney a few moments ago to congratulate him…”

Rational Thought on June 14, 2012 at 3:18 PM

Capitalism is about making profit through a productive investment in material capital.

In my business I’m not always looking for the cheapest possible labor source because you get what you pay for and if you want the best product you may have to pay more for it because in the end it will be to your benefit.

And if illegal labor produced products that were so poor people refused to buy them do you think that there would be such a high demand for illegal labor? Clearly, there is a market for the goods and serviced produced by illegal labor. No matter how you nuance it, capitalism demands a class of below subsistence wages laborers to survive. Look at it this way, how would prices skyrocket if every job held by an illegal worker was paid the American minimum wage?

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 3:20 PM

So, can someone sum up the speech for me? At work and didn’t feel like getting tingles up my leg…or vomiting, one or the other.

The Count on June 14, 2012 at 3:20 PM

Just turned on MSNBC myself. They seem happy with the speech now. Just bashing Romney’s “nonsense.” Guess that didn’t last long.

They read these comments and listen to Right Radio and then revise their “reactions” to whatever twists our reactions into theirs. If we’re seeing “dull and inane,” they’re going to refer to US/Our Candidate as “dull and inane,” and if we remark about their immediate views, they’ll flip them to be the opposite to defy what we’ve observed.

NBC, MSNBC, particularly, they are predictably contrary but always reactive as opposite the views of the Right. I think it’s a psychology they engage in to keep their *followers* in check and to generate or encourage a false environment of enthusiasm among them.

Lourdes on June 14, 2012 at 3:20 PM

Honestly, what kind of speech could Barack give that would move the needle? What could he possibly say, given that the country knows what kind of president he is and will continue to be. The only speech that I think would draw any interest now is the one that starts with “I called Gov. Romney a few moments ago to congratulate him…”

he could have resigned.

gerrym51 on June 14, 2012 at 3:21 PM

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 3:20 PM

gotta love people who shoot themselves in the foot and don’t realize it….

I magine what would happen if Americans were allowed to compete without the Federal interference of a minimum wage at all….

what would happen to prices and consumer choice then chum?

harlekwin15 on June 14, 2012 at 3:21 PM

So, can someone sum up the speech for me? At work and didn’t feel like getting tingles up my leg…or vomiting, one or the other.

The Count on June 14, 2012 at 3:20 PM

Think back to any previous Obama speech you’ve heard. Now just imagine him a little angrier and the crowd far less lively.

Doughboy on June 14, 2012 at 3:23 PM

Clearly, there is a market for the goods and serviced produced by illegal labor. No matter how you nuance it, capitalism demands a class of below subsistence wages laborers to survive. Look at it this way, how would prices skyrocket if every job held by an illegal worker was paid the American minimum wage?

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 3:20 PM

You really are a dope. If every illegal worker was paid the minimum wage, that unskilled work which could be shipped overseas would. And, any that couldn’t would just be paid out more to fewer workers.

The Count on June 14, 2012 at 3:24 PM

If I wanted to see President Palmer pretending to be president on TV I’d just watch an episode of 24.

stout77 on June 14, 2012 at 3:26 PM

I magine what would happen if Americans were allowed to compete without the Federal interference of a minimum wage at all….

what would happen to prices and consumer choice then chum?

harlekwin15 on June 14, 2012 at 3:21 PM

Ah so your preference is that Americans be paid what illegal labor makes. And which Americans would take those jobs?

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 3:28 PM

No matter how you nuance it, capitalism demands a class of below subsistence wages laborers to survive. Look at it this way, how would prices skyrocket if every job held by an illegal worker was paid the American minimum wage?

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 3:20 PM

False.

Prices necessarily skyrocket when the government comes in and kills businesses by over regulation. Obummer said so his annointed self.

America didn’t always have illegal immigration, and it was much better off before that. Unemployment is high because of Obama’s policies. Democrats are the ones that said, “Jobs Americans won’t do”. Because they’d rather sit in the park and defecate on cop cars.

kirkill on June 14, 2012 at 3:29 PM

So, can someone sum up the speech for me? At work and didn’t feel like getting tingles up my leg…or vomiting, one or the other.

The Count on June 14, 2012 at 3:20 PM

It was a wet leg speech, lot of folk must be laughing at the hypocrisy ?

Sandybourne on June 14, 2012 at 3:30 PM

If every illegal worker was paid the minimum wage, that unskilled work which could be shipped overseas would.

Which would do nothing to increase American employment. Try again!

And, any that couldn’t would just be paid out more to fewer workers.

The Count on June 14, 2012 at 3:24 PM

So they’re going to decrease their workforce when low paid work is productive precisely because employers can pay a lot of people, very little to do a lot of work? Sure….

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 3:31 PM

America didn’t always have illegal immigration, and it was much better off before that.

America has always had some class of exploited labor whether it was slaves, sharecroppers, Chinese immigrants, Irish immigrants, Italian immigrants, eastern european immigrants, Mexicans and so on and so forth. Whether these immigrants were legal or illegal is immaterial to whether they represented a below subsistence form of labor within the capitalist system. Capitalism can not survive without them.

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 3:33 PM

gotta love people who shoot themselves in the foot and don’t realize it….

harlekwin15 on June 14, 2012 at 3:21 PM

I dunno’ this libiot is beyond embarrassing.

I’m surprised it can figure out how to feed itself, let alone have the ability to vote.

Geesh, it has outdone itself today in sheer stupidity.

cozmo on June 14, 2012 at 3:35 PM

Ah so your preference is that Americans be paid what illegal labor makes. And which Americans would take those jobs?

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 3:28 PM

What’s the youth unemployment rate again?

Ampersand on June 14, 2012 at 3:35 PM

Debt produces as much slavery as “taxation.”

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 3:04 PM

Kind of like the national debt, huh? Americans are becoming slaves to servicing that debt, which is now accruing at $4,000,000,000 a day.

talkingpoints on June 14, 2012 at 3:36 PM

Ah so your preference is that Americans be paid what illegal labor makes. And which Americans would take those jobs?

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 3:28 PM

I want EVERYONE to be paid what their labor is actually worth there champ….

the system as currently rendered dooms an exceptional dishwasher to be paid below his true value because he has to prop up subpars….

that is system wide top to bottom minimum wage is an answer only to morons who do not grasp that it is a perpetual motion machine….

while your Sunny king is trying to sell the nation on the notion of the laws of thermodynamics being “suggestions” WRT “clean energy”….perhaps you can get him to explain why America lost its global lead in shipbuilding, energy production, steel production and precision machining….

I’ll give you a hint….”true cost of labor” no longer being able to be contained by borders…

harlekwin15 on June 14, 2012 at 3:36 PM

America has always had some class of exploited labor whether it was slaves, sharecroppers, Chinese immigrants, Irish immigrants, Italian immigrants, eastern european immigrants, Mexicans and so on and so forth. Whether these immigrants were legal or illegal is immaterial to whether they represented a below subsistence form of labor within the capitalist system. Capitalism can not survive without them.

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 3:33 PM

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No, better make that a double.

cozmo on June 14, 2012 at 3:36 PM

Apparently the Romney campaign bus has been circling the Obama speech venue beeping its horn. Hilarious!

http://weaselzippers.us/2012/06/14/romney-campaign-bus-drives-circles-around-obama-speech-site-honking-its-horn/

crosspatch on June 14, 2012 at 3:37 PM

First.

Bishop on June 14, 2012 at 3:37 PM

Which would do nothing to increase American employment. Try again!

First of all, they aren’t Americans. Second, you’re the one arguing for a minimum wage hike, remember?

So they’re going to decrease their workforce when low paid work is productive precisely because employers can pay a lot of people, very little to do a lot of work? Sure….

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 3:31 PM

The low paid work isn’t as cheap as it used to be if they are forced to pay an increased minimum wage, numbnuts, so yes they would reduce the workforce to balance the costs.

This argument is useless anyway. Since if they are illegal, they will be paid under the table and not be subject to the minimum wage requirements.

The Count on June 14, 2012 at 3:38 PM

Ah so your preference is that Americans be paid what illegal labor makes. And which Americans would take those jobs?

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 3:28 PM

You know, when I got my first job I was making $3.34 an hour and it wasn’t that long ago. Is today’s 16 year old with no skills or experience worth that much more? How much should you pay someone to make fries at McDonald’s? How can a kid get experience when employers have to pay the current minimum wage?

talkingpoints on June 14, 2012 at 3:39 PM

I especially enjoyed the pauses that TFGP added, waiting for the crowd to erupt in cheers….but they rarely did. Then he would stumble on. Comedy gold.

Bishop on June 14, 2012 at 3:41 PM

while your Sunny king is trying to sell the nation on the notion of the laws of thermodynamics being “suggestions” WRT “clean energy”….perhaps you can get him to explain why America lost its global lead in shipbuilding, energy production, steel production and precision machining….

I’ll give you a hint….”true cost of labor” no longer being able to be contained by borders…

harlekwin15 on June 14, 2012 at 3:36 PM

Which is precisely why conservative opposition to illegal immigration on the basis of “they take our jobs” is so so disingenuous. If you back unrestricted globalism then you don’t give a hoot about domestic employment.

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 3:42 PM

while your Sunny king is trying to sell the nation on the notion of the laws of thermodynamics being “suggestions” WRT “clean energy”….perhaps you can get him to explain why America lost its global lead in shipbuilding, energy production, steel production and precision machining….

I’ll give you a hint….”true cost of labor” no longer being able to be contained by borders…

harlekwin15 on June 14, 2012 at 3:36 PM

And can I just add. When the American worker, whether he is unionized or not, has to compete with people who grew up in significantly more impoverished nations, with a significantly lower standard of living and who have significantly lower expectations for the “basics” there is no way they can win. You can demonize unions all you like, Americans can *never* compete with labor in nations that are still engaged in modernization of their lifestyle. Its what will eventually topple the Chinese regime.

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 3:43 PM

No, better make that a double.

cozmo on June 14, 2012 at 3:36 PM

This might require a triple.

gophergirl on June 14, 2012 at 3:44 PM

Schadenfreude on June 14, 2012 at 3:15 PM

Well said.

mrsknightley on June 14, 2012 at 3:46 PM

Look at it this way, how would prices skyrocket if every job held by an illegal worker was paid the American minimum wage?

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 3:20 PM

And thank you for a great argument of how minimum wage laws encourage people to hire illegal labor to keep up with the competition.

That’s why Nancy Pelosi made sure the last mimimum wage increase didn’t affect American Samoa, so her husband’s canneries didn’t have to pay more to his workers . . .

PastorJon on June 14, 2012 at 3:46 PM

You know, when I got my first job I was making $3.34 an hour and it wasn’t that long ago. Is today’s 16 year old with no skills or experience worth that much more? How much should you pay someone to make fries at McDonald’s? How can a kid get experience when employers have to pay the current minimum wage?

talkingpoints on June 14, 2012 at 3:39 PM

When I was 16 I also worked at McDonalds. And, by far, I was the youngest person on the job and at my pay scale. There were plenty of people in their 20s. Some had kids and some were single parents. You pay those workers 3.34 an hour, without the possibility of tips, that’s not enough to care for a dependent as well. I know, I know, if they had only kept their legs together. But since human beings haven’t managed to keep their legs together basically ever, what is to become of kids raised in households makin 3.34 an hour?

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 3:48 PM

Honestly, what kind of speech could Barack give that would move the needle? What could he possibly say…
Rational Thought on June 14, 2012 at 3:18 PM

“After careful consideration…. I will not be seeking reelection.”

AverageJoe on June 14, 2012 at 3:48 PM

Where did you get your start up capital?

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 2:47 PM

Are you assuming that the only way to get SC is by going into debt?

more than one way to skin a cat, the main thing is you get to decide what works for you and what you’re willing to bear. Some people might scrimp and save for however long it takes, then use the savings to start. Others may find angels or VCs. Then again some may take a loan. Heck, if you want to, you could even cash in your IRA or 401k and go that route.

I’m sorry, but I thought you believed in capitalism. Isn’t capitalism always about finding the cheapest possible labor source?
libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 2:43 PM

“cheapest” does not necessarily mean what you think it means. The word you’re struggling to find is “cost-effective”. The balancing act for business owners is to find that happy medium between the best value offer to customers and max return to your pocket.

AH_C on June 14, 2012 at 3:49 PM

And thank you for a great argument of how minimum wage laws encourage people to hire illegal labor to keep up with the competition.

So your proposal is to eliminate the minimum wage? Great. And how does that lead to lower rent rates?

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 3:49 PM

I love how morons like lib free refers to ‘workers’

Purely a communist term to differentiate between the ruling class and the proles. It is such a myopic worldview.

These people need to be destroyed. They aren’t smart. They aren’t elite. They do not have the moral high ground. They are not honest about their intentions. They harm those they claim to champion the most.

They are losers.

tom daschle concerned on June 14, 2012 at 3:51 PM

I love how morons like lib free refers to ‘workers’

Purely a communist term to differentiate between the ruling class and the proles.

You’re nuts. I’m a worker, so I guess I’m a “prole”

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 3:52 PM

So if you’re conceding my premise, what’s the argument that being a slave to debt is better?

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 2:45 PM

Not that it will do any good, but the difference is that when you borrow money, it’s an agreement between you and the lender. They take the risk that you won’t pay it back, and you get the benefit of using money that isn’t yours for a price. It’s called a contract.

When you live off the government, you are a leech on those around you. You are a drag on society. You are less than worthless because those around you have to work harder to make up for the fact that you are too lazy to take care of yourself. You think you shouldn’t have to work for what you are worth, but for what you NEED. Are you really so stupid you can’t see the difference?

Night Owl on June 14, 2012 at 3:52 PM

PastorJon on June 14, 2012 at 3:46 PM

Win!

kirkill on June 14, 2012 at 3:53 PM

Ah so your preference is that Americans be paid what illegal labor makes. And which Americans would take those jobs?

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 3:28 PM

My HS daughter would gladly work at the mall for $4 or $5/hr to put extra spending money in her pocket.

AH_C on June 14, 2012 at 3:54 PM

What’s also funny is that when conservatives see poor people engaging in communal living or co-ops in order to pool resources and survive off smaller incomes they call them kooky socialists.

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 3:54 PM

Detroit should be the fairest, safest, most productive city on planet earth. Right?

Or does it take centuries of electing democrats to obtain success?

tom daschle concerned on June 14, 2012 at 3:54 PM

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 3:52 PM

Capitalism isn’t perfect. What is your utopian alternative?

America, because of liberty and capitalism, has created the most wealth and better living conditions for the greatest number of people than any other country in history. The “progressives” want to destroy it so that the ruling class, that doesn’t produce anything, can tell us all how to live. Because they want to be like god…hmm, who else said he wanted to “be like god”?

kirkill on June 14, 2012 at 3:56 PM

what is to become of kids raised in households makin 3.34 an hour?

Depends whether their parents get educated or learn a trade and go find a job that pays something. Believe it or not, they can do all that without government intervention. It’s not like they’re mandated to work at McD’s the rest of their lives.

mrsknightley on June 14, 2012 at 3:58 PM

When I was 16 I also worked at McDonalds. And, by far, I was the youngest person on the job and at my pay scale. There were plenty of people in their 20s. Some had kids and some were single parents. You pay those workers 3.34 an hour, without the possibility of tips, that’s not enough to care for a dependent as well. I know, I know, if they had only kept their legs together. But since human beings haven’t managed to keep their legs together basically ever, what is to become of kids raised in households makin 3.34 an hour?

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 3:48 PM

________________________________________

Um, let’s see………

1. Get a better paying job, or
2. Get multiple jobs

I know, I know, amazing, but people do it all the time. That is, when they’re not victims of the Unicorn Economy.

ICanSeeNovFromMyHouse on June 14, 2012 at 3:58 PM

My HS daughter would gladly work at the mall for $4 or $5/hr to put extra spending money in her pocket.

AH_C on June 14, 2012 at 3:54 PM

Which is great. And what about the hundreds of thousands of people with kids who work minimum wage jobs.

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 4:00 PM

So I just watched this Martin Bashir character for the first time.

Wow.

taternuggets on June 14, 2012 at 4:00 PM

What’s also funny is that when conservatives see poor people engaging in communal living or co-ops in order to pool resources and survive off smaller incomes they call them kooky socialists.

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 3:54 PM

No we don’t, and it’s not funny, except in your tiny gnat brain.

See a Chinese legal immigrant family. 3 generations sleep on the floor, run a restaurant, while the young ones study, with top grades, then sustain the elderly. No one laughs at them.

You are still the fool.

Schadenfreude on June 14, 2012 at 4:03 PM

And thank you for a great argument of how minimum wage laws encourage people to hire illegal labor to keep up with the competition.

So your proposal is to eliminate the minimum wage? Great. And how does that lead to lower rent rates?

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 3:49 PM

Didn’t say that.

The best way to increase wages in this country is full employment, so there’s competition for workers. Minimum wage laws make it so that instead of 2 people making six dollars an hour at your McDonald’s, they can only hire one at $8.

The Federal government should be out of the minimum wage game altogether. $4 an hour in some parts of the country goes just as far as $12 an hour in San Francisco. Leave it to local communities to work with it.

Liberals see a problem in a pocket of the country and call on the federal government to fix it with money from all over and laws that affect everybody. Conservatives see that same pocket of problems and call on the government in that local area to fix it. That’s what it boils down to.

People in your county not being paid enough? Pass a law for YOUR county to set a minimum. Then watch prices go up to pay those higher wages and more people unemployed. Then raise minimum wage to react to the higher prices and seek help from the state for more unemployment money. Then watch prices rise again . . . Don’t believe me? I’ve seen it in San Jose county. They raised minimum wage to $12. My fast food stops drastically raised their prices and service went down the tubes as they tried to do with less employees. Fortunately for those of us higher on the training ladder, unemployment was so low at the time I could get a very high wage.

Yes, get rid of the minimum wage and let churches and private charities that can hold people accountable help the poor, and the results of poor choices. And then let LOCAL communities deal with their issues.

PastorJon on June 14, 2012 at 4:03 PM

talkingpoints on June 14, 2012 at 3:39 PM

it is even more perverse than that…..

think back to the cost of fuel indexed to the minimum wage in 1988 I could buy a gallon of gas with 20 minutes work….

an RPG book cost me 4 hours wage….try that magic trick today….

the minimum wage is a perverse lie that is there to artificially make labor and prices more expensive and to perpetuate the welfare state ad infinitum.

harlekwin15 on June 14, 2012 at 4:04 PM

Um, let’s see………

1. Get a better paying job, or

Yup, that just is something that happens! Especially in this economy.

2. Get multiple jobs

Are you nuts? There are still only 24 hours in the day. Lets say you find two different 3.34 jobs and you manage to work 18 hours a day, 6 days a week. Oh and also you’re a single parent. You earn, before social security taxes, 1442.8 a month. Oh also you live in a southern major metropolitan area. Where do you live? How do you feed and clothe your child? How do you travel to work? You’ll need a car in order to make it from job to job in time to get that many hours. Also when do you sleep?

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 4:06 PM

mrsknightley on June 14, 2012 at 3:58 PM

two words “Alexander Hamilton”….

Barry Soetoro cries about slavery…..Hamilton was in fact a slave.

harlekwin15 on June 14, 2012 at 4:06 PM

What’s also funny is that when conservatives see poor people engaging in communal living or co-ops in order to pool resources and survive off smaller incomes they call them kooky socialists.

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 3:54 PM

They do? Give us some examples.

Real ones, not ones you imagine.

Del Dolemonte on June 14, 2012 at 4:08 PM

But since human beings haven’t managed to keep their legs together basically ever, what is to become of kids raised in households makin 3.34 an hour?

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 3:48 PM

Since you feel responsible for their self-inflicted plight, you’re more than welcome to share your income with them. Your marital and/or head of household status should never be the determining criteria for one’s salary, only the value one brings to an enterprise.

If the fools went all thru school refusing to “act white” by learning the 3 Rs, then it should come as no surprise that their take home ain’t “acting white”. Why should Mickey Dees hire someone to flip burgers and pay much more than minimum wage? Actually, even then, there is a cost-benefit process at work here. You can hire an immature teenager for x or you could hire a desperate adult with mouths to feed for x + 1. Odds are you might go with the adult and gain an uptick in quality service compared to the payout. Back in my HS days, the fast food joints were mainly operated by the under 20 and supervised/managed by an adult. Now, it is rare to see teens working. Why is that? Because minimum wages have escalated causing a trickle down effect of pushing unskilled adults down scale in terms of labor opportunities.

If anyone had suggested 25 years ago that a burger-flipper should be a sustainable career, they would have been roundly mocked. Those jobs were considered started jobs, or a stepping stone to something else. Now that those ranks have been filled out by mostly adults, it is absolutely the wrong solution to think that wages need to be raised to “living wages”.

AH_C on June 14, 2012 at 4:09 PM

Del Dolemonte on June 14, 2012 at 4:08 PM

I do when it is obvious the moonbats are living a lifestyle that is being subsidized from somewhere besides “Lumpy’s prolitariat”….

I shared a house with two other people and five of us lived there to make a go of it in college….

guess I’m a socialist or would that be “boarder”?

harlekwin15 on June 14, 2012 at 4:10 PM

Yes, get rid of the minimum wage and let churches and private charities that can hold people accountable help the poor, and the results of poor choices. And then let LOCAL communities deal with their issues.

PastorJon on June 14, 2012 at 4:03 PM

Riiight. And there it is. Conservatives don’t want people to have more freedom, they just want them beholden to/dependent on other authorities. Because “the church” isn’t corrupt, isn’t a place where people are exploited, doesn’t exclude or discriminate and helps everyone equally. This is why you’ll never get black folks on board with liberalism, our history is quite clear about what happens when federal authority withdraws in favor of local authority, and it ain’t pretty. Where did you get it in your head that just because a community is “local” that its kind or good?

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 4:10 PM

So your proposal is to eliminate the minimum wage? Great. And how does that lead to lower rent rates?

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 3:49 PM

Wow that is an ignorant question. Art History major by chance?

stout77 on June 14, 2012 at 4:10 PM

If the fools went all thru school refusing to “act white” by learning the 3 Rs, then it should come as no surprise that their take home ain’t “acting white”

Oh so this is about anti-black racism. Got it.

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 4:11 PM

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 4:10 PM

where do you get it in your head that the concentration of power in fewer and fewer hands leads to less corruption stud?

harlekwin15 on June 14, 2012 at 4:11 PM

Wow that is an ignorant question. Art History major by chance?

stout77 on June 14, 2012 at 4:10 PM

Or a “social justice er urban planning” major….

I shudder to think that prior to the ever tightening embrace of the leviathan that there were more choices in product for the consumer that had a wider price/quality index….

harlekwin15 on June 14, 2012 at 4:13 PM

Schadenfreude on June 14, 2012 at 3:17 PM

This one?

“You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is about the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.”
― Adrian Rogers

novaculus on June 14, 2012 at 4:14 PM

And most people go into debt. The system is set up to encourage people take on debt in order to advance economically, which is why the vast majority of people take it on. Debt produces as much slavery as “taxation.”

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 3:04 PM

Do you mean the money you borrow to get your nails done every week and you have nothing left on your EBT card to pay for groceries? Or the money you borrow to pay the rent after you spent your section 8 money on jewelry? I don’t think there is really any hope for you, you’ll always be ignorant, and your only hope is to pop out a few more kids before it’s too late.

Night Owl on June 14, 2012 at 4:16 PM

where do you get it in your head that the concentration of power in fewer and fewer hands leads to less corruption stud?

harlekwin15 on June 14, 2012 at 4:11 PM

From conservatives who have cheered the accumulation of greater and greater wealthy by a smaller and smaller cadre of capitalists.

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 4:17 PM

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 4:17 PM

myths and lies….

I guess we’re all cheering barry Soetoro then since his policies have destroyed several millioanires and there are now fewer and fewer “overlords”?

You keep braying on that we capitalists want fewer pie eaters eating bigger pieces of a finite pie when in reality we want more pies and you libtards are the ones with the micron wide knife trying to play referee….

go read wealth of nations sport.

harlekwin15 on June 14, 2012 at 4:20 PM

Do you mean the money you borrow to get your nails done every week and you have nothing left on your EBT card to pay for groceries?

Yup, we know that personal appearance and fashion are totally immaterial to advancement within the market. There’s absolutely no reason to make investments in self in order to advance oneself. That’s why no one wears suits or nice pant suits in the business world. Nor do they get haircuts, use product, apply makeup, buy watches, leather satchels, purses, nice shoes, matching socks, cufflinks. You got it bud!

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 4:21 PM

From conservatives who have cheered the accumulation of greater and greater wealthy by a smaller and smaller cadre of capitalists.

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 4:17 PM

Income disparity is a byproduct of freedom. I’m quite thankful for the standard of living we have and really couldn’t care less if my neighbor drives a nicer car than me. Let go of your envy and it will all become clear to you.

stout77 on June 14, 2012 at 4:22 PM

Apparently the Romney campaign bus has been circling the Obama speech venue beeping its horn. Hilarious!

http://weaselzippers.us/2012/06/14/romney-campaign-bus-drives-circles-around-obama-speech-site-honking-its-horn/

crosspatch on June 14, 2012 at 3:37 PM

With all due respect!

DanaLynn on June 14, 2012 at 4:22 PM

Which is great. And what about the hundreds of thousands of people with kids who work minimum wage jobs.

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 4:00 PM

You don’t get it. That is the vicious downward spiral of lousy education and inflated wages. By inflated wages, I mean the govt dictating the floor value of one’s labor. That led to the increase of illegals working under the tale for less that the citizen. And around it goes and where it stops nobody knows…

Get rid of the illegals – send them packing and watch unemployment go up. In ’95, a sheetrocker could make $12 to $15/hr which is good money in TX.

Thanks to illegals, the going labor rates have declined. In OK in 2007, we ran the illegals out of the State and bleeding hearts predicted that we’d regret the “astronomical” rise in prices.

Nothing of the sort happened. Wages did rise, but more importantly, unemployment went down. With the healthier economy, the resultant rise in prices was negligble. Yeah, there’s still illegals in OK, but not as many and certainly not as blatant since being so would attract unwanted attention to their place of employment and/or their landlord.

Jeepers, you would think the liberals would instinctively want to take care of their own citizens FIRST before coodling the illegals who compete for the jobs that the youths, blacks and the hispanics (need I say Hispanic-Americans?) have a birthright to?

AH_C on June 14, 2012 at 4:23 PM

You keep braying on that we capitalists want fewer pie eaters eating bigger pieces of a finite pie when in reality we want more pies and you libtards are the ones with the micron wide knife trying to play referee….

Can I assume your reliance on ridiculous metaphor is your version of conceding you have no response?

go read wealth of nations sport.

harlekwin15 on June 14, 2012 at 4:20 PM

I’ve read Adam Smith, have you read your Foucault?

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 4:23 PM

stout77 on June 14, 2012 at 4:22 PM

it’s a combination of the TV and the $ociali$t$ I’m telling you….

everyone seems to feel entitles to live a banker, lawyer, or doctor’s lifestyle so long as they go to a 4 year degree sweatshop….

Beverly hills 90210 is a cancer.

harlekwin15 on June 14, 2012 at 4:23 PM

stout77 on June 14, 2012 at 4:22 PM

Does wealth = power or not?

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 4:25 PM

http://dailycaller.com/2012/06/14/obama-forgets-to-pay-for-responsible-fatherhood-lunch/

Barry ordered the rib and drinks lunch, got up and left and sticking us with the bill.

bayview on June 14, 2012 at 4:26 PM

“I love capitalism, but I kind of hate the culture that arises from capitalism!”

harlekwin15 on June 14, 2012 at 4:23 PM

LOL, classic!

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 4:26 PM

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 4:23 PM

Foucault aka “Fu**wit”?

I’ve gleaned him what does his tapping into the Catalinian desire of “we is owed” is anything more worthy than marx which is to say “flush?”

I don’t tend to take philosophers who celebrate hallucinogens as “the best experiences of my life” to be proper cyphers for economic thought.

If you can get past your tight as a drunk on the last bottle of hooch notions of “fair” with you being ‘referee” you would grasp that besides the industrial revolution, the antibiotic age, and plenty in the agrarian fields Capitalism has given us nothing which is still a Himalayaian span more than collectivism has given us in anything but politicial executions.

harlekwin15 on June 14, 2012 at 4:27 PM

What’s also funny is that when conservatives see poor people engaging in communal living or co-ops in order to pool resources and survive off smaller incomes they call them kooky socialists.

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 3:54 PM

How about always-dependent-on-Dad college kids living in a dorm at Oral Roberts University? I’m sure conservatives call them “kooky socialists” too, right?

Right?

You’re the Kenny Bania of Hot Gas. Comedy Gold.

Del Dolemonte on June 14, 2012 at 4:27 PM

Obama stiffs restaurant for $55 bill just 2 days after his speech saying the GOP would “order steak, martini… and stick you worth the bill”.

LOL!!

TN Mom on June 14, 2012 at 4:28 PM

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 4:26 PM

Morality and economics do not often intersect….case in point your evangelical “green energy” buddies….

Your avaraice is a moral failing and it is not the inequity of the system that is to blame for your cheetos as staple of your existence lifestyle, but your failure to properly analyze the lay of the terrain.

Keep on plugging champ.

harlekwin15 on June 14, 2012 at 4:29 PM

novaculus on June 14, 2012 at 4:14 PM

Thank you. I did not know the source, except e-mail :)

Schadenfreude on June 14, 2012 at 4:30 PM

Oh so this is about anti-black racism. Got it.

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 4:11 PM

No it’s about the self-defeating IDIOCY within the lower socio-economic community that somehow striving for a solid education and good grades is “acting-white”. Where else did idiots think that Oboobi stash would pay for all their wants, all they have to do is hold their hands out.

Put it this way, when the crash comes, these people are going to make the kids in Lord of the Flies look like pikers, but they will learn in short order not to go on raiding parties to those better prepared.

AH_C on June 14, 2012 at 4:31 PM

Are you nuts? There are still only 24 hours in the day. Lets say you find two different 3.34 jobs and you manage to work 18 hours a day, 6 days a week. Oh and also you’re a single parent. You earn, before social security taxes, 1442.8 a month. Oh also you live in a southern major metropolitan area. Where do you live? How do you feed and clothe your child? How do you travel to work? You’ll need a car in order to make it from job to job in time to get that many hours. Also when do you sleep?

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 4:06 PM

___________________________________________

Guess what? People figure it out, if they’re truly motivated to do so.

Instead of posing a bunch of allegedly rhetorical questions, why don’t you finish the sentences the way you really feel, with this……

“We (the government) need to ‘help’ them”.

In other words, subsidize their existence at the expense of others – involuntarily I might add. Yeah, that’ll motivate people to improve themselves to be the best they can be, and really instill faith in those that have worked, busted their asses, and educated themselves to now “redistribute” their earnings to others, who now know full well they’ll be getting an extra ‘hand’, sufficiently eliminating their motivation to improve and get that better paying job.

I know being self-sufficient is a foreign term for you, and we should worship at the almighty altar of Government (since they know best), but your ignorance is breathtaking.

ICanSeeNovFromMyHouse on June 14, 2012 at 4:31 PM

what is to become of kids raised in households makin 3.34 an hour?

libfreeordie on June 14, 2012 at 3:48 PM

Since why is this my problem? Why do I have to pay some frail who can’t keep her knees together. The sins of the father (and mother) are visited upon their children.

You know, HA is becoming very tedious lately, reading all the inanities dribbling out of the trolls and libruls. Most of these … are too self admiring and ignorant to understand what you are telling them. They essentially a bunch of dorm rats BSing their ways through circular argument with each other. They craftfully lead youall off topic until you are arguing with them about what they want to write about.

There is an old adage about this: “Don’t wrestle with pigs. All that will happen is that you will get dirty, and the pigs will like it.”

Old Country Boy on June 14, 2012 at 4:31 PM

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