Flame war of the year: Estonian president unloads on Paul Krugman on Twitter

posted at 8:41 pm on June 6, 2012 by Allahpundit

Two words, my friends: Romney/Ilves. In reverse chronological order:

I know what you’re thinking — “y’all”? — but Foreign Policy seems convinced that it’s a bona fide account. In which case, two more words: Ilves/Romney?

Here’s the Krugman post that set him off, which I think you’ll find notably mild compared to Krugs’s sleazier demagogic excrescences. That post was in turn a Keynesian belch at this widely linked Global Post story describing how Estonia managed to kickstart rapid economic growth while the rest of Europe got sucked into a black hole. Three words: “Austerity, austerity, austerity.”

Sixteen months after it joined the struggling currency bloc, Estonia is booming. The economy grew 7.6 percent last year, five times the euro-zone average.

Estonia is the only euro-zone country with a budget surplus. National debt is just 6 percent of GDP, compared to 81 percent in virtuous Germany, or 165 percent in Greece…

Estonia’s achievement is all the more remarkable when you consider that it was one of the countries hardest hit by the global financial crisis. In 2008-2009, its economy shrank by 18 percent. That’s a bigger contraction than Greece has suffered over the past five years…

While spending cuts have triggered strikes, social unrest and the toppling of governments in countries from Ireland to Greece, Estonians have endured some of the harshest austerity measures with barely a murmur. They even re-elected the politicians that imposed them.

Decades spent under Soviet rule have apparently inured them to the tumult of recessions. If you want to see what real austerity looks like, check out the graphs Cato posted last month comparing spending in the UK, which, to hear Krugman types tell it, is supposedly in the grip of lunatic libertarian budget-slashing, to spending in the Baltic nations. Ilves himself addressed the imbalance in Europe in an essay published by the Hoover Institute in March:

[T]he inability or unwillingness of parts of the EU-17 to submit to agreed-upon rules will be defended by an appeal to the position that “our democracy cannot withstand the kind of austerity demanded of us.” The first shoots of this position we have already seen emerge. Yet let us be clear about what this means: Fiscally responsible countries will be asked to support fiscally profligate countries in the name of democracy

The bankrolling of Southern Europe has already and ever-increasingly threatened the fiscally responsible countries, the ones who have shown solidarity and voted to commit to bailing out those better off than we. Moreover, while much has been made of the change of governments in countries that broke the rules, far too little attention has been paid to what to my mind is a far more significant reverberation: the fall of a responsible, poor, new member state government coalition (in Slovakia) that made the hard choice and voted to support a country richer than it is, all for the sake of European solidarity…

The price of following the rules for a “poor” country like Estonia has been harsh. Yet if we subtract the fake wealth of the “rich,” the ones who today cannot pay their debts, who have borrowed their wealth, are they that much richer than we? If part of being European is playing by the rules, that is, following the rule of law, then how can “European Solidarity” ever take precedence over the rules?

Pretty nifty summary of why the eurozone’s headed for a crack-up. Looking forward to Krugman’s reply about how Estonia’s economy would actually be roaring ahead at 20 percent growth now if only they borrowed a few hundred billion from someone and got cracking on infrastructure improvements.


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I gotta follow this guy!

theflyonthewall on June 6, 2012 at 11:05 PM

White House to bash Estonia for having no minorities of color in their Parliament in 5.. 4.. 3..

Archivarix on June 6, 2012 at 11:08 PM

I’ve always liked Estonia. A country I’d certainly like to visit.

Seeing it on TV, it reminded me of France.. but without the French.

Reaps on June 6, 2012 at 11:10 PM

Paul Krugman only proves that just because you can say intelligent-sounding, but incomprehensible things, doesn’t mean you’re intelligent and deserving of prizes.

It only means you can say “intelligent-sounding, but incomprehensible things” . . . and that suckers are still born every minute.

EdmundBurke247 on June 6, 2012 at 11:12 PM

‘curb stopming’, I love that!!LOve how the EAstern European always speak their minds and don’t
pay lip service to the EU MAsters, remember the Czech PM Vaclav KLaus who dared to be a vocal environmental skeptic…

jimver on June 6, 2012 at 11:15 PM

I’ve always liked Estonia. A country I’d certainly like to visit.

Seeing it on TV, it reminded me of France.. but without the French.

Reaps on June 6, 2012 at 11:10 PM

France without the French? Sounds like heaven to me

jayhawkingeorgia on June 6, 2012 at 11:16 PM

Krugman’s bootlicks are busy making tweets on his page, lol – such tears…

theflyonthewall on June 6, 2012 at 11:16 PM

You tell us, Kruggy. You’re claiming that Obama’s last few years are economic nirvana.

MadisonConservative on June 6, 2012 at 8:52 PM

Until I saw your comments, I thought what you quoted was about Obama. The depression part seemed like a bit of an exaggeration but nothing nearly so satirical as an Obama supporter writing this about anyone else.

Esthier on June 6, 2012 at 11:16 PM

I’ve always liked Estonia. A country I’d certainly like to visit.

Seeing it on TV, it reminded me of France.. but without the French.

Reaps on June 6, 2012 at 11:10 PM

It’s a beautiful country, and Tallinn is really quaint.

JPeterman on June 6, 2012 at 11:19 PM

It is entirely unfortunate that I run around with my head jammed in my ace with my ignorant drivel worrying my fat butt off what other people think about gays getting hitched. I’m an idjit with my perception of reality so far out of whack I’ll never do anything meaningful in my fear filled useless life but complain about ‘Damned religious fanatic weasels’ out to get me.

Your Mamma loves me on June 6, 2012 at 11:03 PM

Somebody get that man a tinfoil hat!

CapnObvious on June 6, 2012 at 11:20 PM

Mitt Romney should offer Krugs the ambassadorship to Estonia.

slickwillie2001 on June 6, 2012 at 11:37 PM

Brayam conspicuously silent

CW on June 6, 2012 at 11:41 PM

bayam!

Del Dolemonte on June 6, 2012 at 11:48 PM

Estonia is the best run country in Europe. They don’t have the accumulated wealth of Switzerland or the natural resources of Norway. But they have less debt than either and probably the highest GDP growth in the Western World right now. Amazing leadership by Ilves.

Krugman is not fit to shine Ilves’ shoes.

Norwegian on June 6, 2012 at 11:57 PM

Fiscally responsible countries will be asked to support fiscally profligate countries in the name of democracy…

Hey! Who is up for bailing out California?

bitsy on June 6, 2012 at 11:59 PM

It is entirely unfortunate that I run around with my head jammed in my ace with my ignorant drivel worrying my fat butt off what other people think about gays getting hitched. I’m an idjit with my perception of reality so far out of whack I’ll never do anything meaningful in my fear filled useless life but complain about ‘Damned religious fanatic weasels’ out to get me.

Your Mamma loves me on June 6, 2012 at 11:03 PM

Somebody get that man a tinfoil hat!

CapnObvious on June 6, 2012 at 11:20 PM

…why?…First time since he’s been posting that his self assessment has been dead on!

KOOLAID2 on June 7, 2012 at 12:02 AM

Sixteen months after it joined the struggling currency bloc, Estonia is booming. The economy grew 7.6 percent last year, five times the euro-zone average.

Estonia is the only euro-zone country with a budget surplus. National debt is just 6 percent of GDP, compared to 81 percent in virtuous Germany, or 165 percent in Greece…

Estonia’s achievement is all the more remarkable when you consider that it was one of the countries hardest hit by the global financial crisis. In 2008-2009, its economy shrank by 18 percent. That’s a bigger contraction than Greece has suffered over the past five years…

While spending cuts have triggered strikes, social unrest and the toppling of governments in countries from Ireland to Greece, Estonians have endured some of the harshest austerity measures with barely a murmur. They even re-elected the politicians that imposed them.

No wonder Krugman hates them.

Speakup on June 7, 2012 at 12:04 AM

It is entirely unfortunate that I run around with my head jammed in my ace with my ignorant drivel worrying my fat butt off what other people think about gays getting hitched. I’m an idjit with my perception of reality so far out of whack I’ll never do anything meaningful in my fear filled useless life but complain about ‘Damned religious fanatic weasels’ out to get me.
Your Mamma loves me on June 6, 2012 at 11:03 PM

The Soros payroll cash register goes “ka-ching ka-ching ka-ching”!

Dunedainn on June 7, 2012 at 12:12 AM

In which case, two more words: Ilves/Romney?
posted at 8:41 pm on June 6, 2012 by Allahpundit

Got my vote

workingclass artist on June 7, 2012 at 12:16 AM

Krugman so totally misses the point, I have to think he’s being deliberately obtuse. According to him, Estonia’s austerity should have plunged them into a fiscal spiral. They should not be recovering at all. But the way I see it, their economy is no worse off than any other Eurozone country … only WITHOUT a gigantic pile of debt.

But Keynes is never wrong. All hail the great Keynes!

Hal_10000 on June 7, 2012 at 12:23 AM

I hope he lets Obama have it too.

No one in the U.S. has this man’s cojones.

Schadenfreude on June 7, 2012 at 12:49 AM

Mitt s/b this lucky. The weasel didn’t even go stand next to Walker, with the factory workers, in such an historical moment.

Schadenfreude on June 7, 2012 at 12:50 AM

Fiscally responsible countries will be asked to support fiscally profligate countries in the name of democracy…

Under Obama, fiscally responsible taxpayers are asked to support fiscally profligate people in the name of fairness.

Pay your mortgage? Then pay your neighbor’s too!

PattyJ on June 7, 2012 at 12:55 AM

yes, Estonians are quiet and stubborn people. And quite disciplined.
Good for Ilves!

magone on June 7, 2012 at 1:07 AM

It is entirely unfortunate that most of “conservative” dish*tskis here run around with your heads jammed in your aces with your religious drivel worrying your fat butts off about gays getting hitched. You idjits have your priorities so far out of whack you’ll never do anything meaningful in your fear filled useless lives. Damned religious fanatic weasels.

Your Mamma loves me on June 6, 2012 at 11:03 PM

If only they could be as measured and reasonable as you are……

There Goes The Neighborhood on June 7, 2012 at 1:19 AM

Next week: Tom Friedman suggests that to really grow Estonia needs to follow the brilliant Chinese model.

BocaJuniors on June 7, 2012 at 1:22 AM

Awright, people, repeat after this 1st-generation Estonian kid: “Paul Krugman, laku persed!”

You’ve just invited him to tongue-bathe your buttocks.

OhioCoastie on June 7, 2012 at 1:34 AM

It is entirely unfortunate that most of “conservative” dish*tskis here run around with your heads jammed in your aces with your religious drivel worrying your fat butts off about gays getting hitched. You idjits have your priorities so far out of whack you’ll never do anything meaningful in your fear filled useless lives. Damned religious fanatic weasels.

Your Mamma loves me on June 6, 2012 at 11:03 PM

My mamma loves you? I think not. Hammusta minu munad, sa kuradi sita junn. Ma sõidan sinu ema nagu meister sõidab hobusega.

OhioCoastie on June 7, 2012 at 1:40 AM

Sensible is the new “hip and cool”.

Choom this.

hillbillyjim on June 7, 2012 at 2:11 AM

That’s the sound of the men (and women, to be all PC and sh!t)—-

Working on the Choom Gay Aye Ang.

hillbillyjim on June 7, 2012 at 2:17 AM

Yeah, answers the White house’s elegant spokes-personage, Jay Carney, they may have an enviable economy, but their dogs, truth be told, taste like mud.

Don L on June 7, 2012 at 3:28 AM

Fiscally responsible countries will be asked to support fiscally profligate countries in the name of democracy…

That sounds like the problem with the states here in the U.S.. The fiscally responsible states are being looted to continue paying for the fiscally irresponsible (read: Democratic Socialist) states. And it is all happening through the Federal Government.

Theophile on June 7, 2012 at 3:31 AM

Krugman; an effete little man laboring under the delusion he or his opinions matter. Someone needs to take the Nobel awarding division out behind the woodshed and beat the sh*t out of them.

LizardLips on June 7, 2012 at 5:14 AM

It would be very cool if that actually is the Estonian President.

Krugman is consistently wrong and more than a little nutso.

dogsoldier on June 7, 2012 at 6:09 AM

The fun thing about the economies of the former Soviet Bloc Nations is that those that are doing well tend to have a flat tax that can’t be gamed.

That has got to PO little Paulie Krugman no end.

ajacksonian on June 7, 2012 at 7:11 AM

This vibes legit.

The Estonian ladies I have had the pleasure of meeting were all very, uh,…driven?

Presumably the men are the same but I defer to Jetboy on that call…

CorporatePiggy on June 7, 2012 at 7:15 AM

LizardLips on June 7, 2012 at 5:14 AM

Planted comment of the day!!!!!!!!!!!!

ray on June 7, 2012 at 7:18 AM

Doesn’t Krudman hafta shave his beard off now or something? Or show contrition by taking orders and becoming a monk or hopefully a hermit down in some deep dark slimy cave where he will eat fisheesss and love his precioussss or something?

What’s that you say? Already lives in that slimy cave?

Never mind….

Sherman1864 on June 7, 2012 at 7:26 AM

TFGP will soon declare war on Estonia.

Bishop on June 6, 2012 at 9:05 PM

We’ve always been at war with Estonia.

LtGenRob on June 7, 2012 at 7:46 AM

Mitt Romney should offer Krugs the ambassadorship to Estonia.

slickwillie2001 on June 6, 2012 at 11:37 PM

Why punish the poor Estonians? They don’t deserve that. Better just to have Romney study every Krugman column carefully, and then do the exact opposite of whatever Krugman recommends. We’ll be seeing record growth here in no time!

AZCoyote on June 7, 2012 at 7:53 AM

are they that much richer than we?

This guy is my new political crush. He just put untold numbers of native English speakers to shame, because they would’ve incorrectly ended that sentence with “us.”

Exceedingly well played, sir.

mrsknightley on June 7, 2012 at 7:56 AM

TFGP will soon declare war on Estonia.

Bishop on June 6, 2012 at 9:05 PM

Do I hear a drone buzzing above the captial of Estonia?

Bitter Clinger on June 7, 2012 at 8:09 AM

When I read this piece, the first thing that popped into my head was the children’s story about “The Grasshopper and the Ant”

oldleprechaun on June 7, 2012 at 8:14 AM

I know what you’re thinking — “y’all”? — but Foreign Policy seems convinced that it’s a bona fide account.

Hey, maybe Toomas studied a few semesters at Georgia Southern!

PalinLover on June 7, 2012 at 8:17 AM

excrescences

oh AP. thats a fun word.

t8stlikchkn on June 7, 2012 at 8:23 AM

Estonians, wonderful people. Just a short ferry ride from Helsinki. I can’t wait to go there. We are getting a lot of doctors and nurses from Estonia, very qualified people. Many people in my area go there to see their doctors and get their medicines and care at a fraction of the costs here.

What a loser Krugman is.

pabo on June 7, 2012 at 8:24 AM

Reading the first few comments at that blog (all NYC residents) I have really come to understand why the typical NYC resident needs to vote for politicians that tell them what and when to eat and drink.

Eastern Europe/Asia will inherit the earth from the mental children of the west. It’s only a matter of time.

MNHawk on June 7, 2012 at 8:25 AM

Um, so the Estonian GDP is still 9% below what it was five years ago, and flat over the last three quarters, and this is the model you want to embrace?

urban elitist on June 7, 2012 at 8:27 AM

Oh, and the unemployment rate is 11.5% and your new hero is an elitist Ivy Leaguer.

urban elitist on June 7, 2012 at 8:31 AM

While I am happy our president stood up against the obnoxious Krugman and our president is quite correct in what he is tweeting, he might have used a slightly more presidential tone. Although in the age of twitter, perhaps this IS the new presidential tone and I’m just behind the curve.

Also we as a people have never ever considered ouselves Eastern European given that we live in Northern Europe and are by tradition protestants. The fact that others who do not know us often lump us in the group due to the tragedy of being left on the wrong side of the iron curtain, doesn’t mean our president should perpetuate the false notion.

kittysaidwoof on June 7, 2012 at 8:34 AM

Oh, and the unemployment rate is 11.5% and your new hero is an elitist Ivy Leaguer.

urban elitist on June 7, 2012 at 8:31 AM

Dear Saul, you no longer control the narrative.

Peace!

tom daschle concerned on June 7, 2012 at 8:35 AM

I should have read this last night. I saw Krugman’s pic and thought the headline was, Flamer of the Year. Then I wondered how that was news to anyone.

TugboatPhil on June 7, 2012 at 8:37 AM

I wonder if the reason they have a budget surplus in Estonia is because they have a 21% tax rate on income — and capital gains do NOT receive favorable treatment — as well as a 20% VAT.

I may be beginning to like this guy myself.

urban elitist on June 7, 2012 at 8:39 AM

Obligatory: Krugman = bed wetter

Lost in Jersey on June 7, 2012 at 8:40 AM

Um, so the Estonian GDP is still 9% below what it was five years ago, and flat over the last three quarters, and this is the model you want to embrace?

urban elitist on June 7, 2012 at 8:27 AM

And they’re not drowning in debt. Guess you didn’t read the part where their economy contracted 18 percent in the global recession. Sounds like they’re slowly but steadily making their way back. They may be flat for the last 3 quarters, we’ve been flat for the last 3 years.

Bitter Clinger on June 7, 2012 at 8:42 AM

urban elitist on June 7, 2012 at 8:39 AM

The urban bit might make sense but what makes you an elitist?

CorporatePiggy on June 7, 2012 at 8:44 AM

Just put Estonia on my list of places to move to after Dems turn us into Zimbabwe.

The Count on June 7, 2012 at 8:49 AM

urban elitist, you and Krugman compare the absolute peak of the financial/real estate bubble that burst here in 2007. This is not the correct baseline. The correct baseline and to which people here compare their lives to is the beginning of the nineties when we finally broke free.

We annoy Krugman because he predicted our austerity policies would land us in the dumpster. In stead we’ve had pretty decent recovery and while things have slowed compared to last year, we’re still growing faster than the rest of Europe. Our southern neighbours who followed our model also show decent recovery despite Keynesians predicting they would not. In stead Greece which unlike us failed to implement drastic cutting measures – is now heading for the dumpster.

Admittedly like all of Europe we are still having problems and we’re a long way from being able to sit back and relax. Unemployment is bad and while its improving it will take a long time before it falls to acceptable levels.

kittysaidwoof on June 7, 2012 at 8:53 AM

The urban bit might make sense but what makes you an elitist?

CorporatePiggy on June 7, 2012 at 8:44 AM

If liberals can convince themselves that they can steer the climate and spend our way out of debt, convincing themselves that they are elite comes as naturally as breathing.

The Count on June 7, 2012 at 8:56 AM

What probably helped Estonia was they didn’t adopt the Euro until last year and didn’t suffer the low interest rate fueled bubble that brought down Ireland and Spain. They had the freedom to adopt policies that suited Estonia and not France and Germany.

breffnian on June 7, 2012 at 8:57 AM

And they’re not drowning in debt. Guess you didn’t read the part where their economy contracted 18 percent in the global recession. Sounds like they’re slowly but steadily making their way back. They may be flat for the last 3 quarters, we’ve been flat for the last 3 years.

Bitter Clinger on June 7, 2012 at 8:42 AM

So, they reacted poorly to the initial shock — allowing a recession to become a depression — and their recovery has stalled with unemployment at 11.5%. This is not an effective advertisement for austerity. And, if the government budget is in balance, how much individual wealth is being lost when the economy continues to limp.

Also, not that their tax rates appear to be pretty high — are you willing to pay that price?

The urban bit might make sense but what makes you an elitist?

CorporatePiggy on June 7, 2012 at 8:44 AM

It’s tongue in cheek — based on Palinista and Tea Party tendency to call people in my demographic “elitists” at the drop of a hat and their dismissal of urban residents as somehow not living in “real” America. Usually, here, I’m called much worse.

I certainly do not count myself among the “elite.”

urban elitist on June 7, 2012 at 9:08 AM

Even though Estonia is is great shape, it’s too damn proximate to Putania.

What I would love is for Tom Maguire and Toomas Ilves to jointly write a letter every week to the NYT debunking Krugman, and keep up the brutal humiliation until he starts thinking clearly. Could be a long time in coming, I admit, but the benefit would be that two articulate wonderful writers would fill the Times with facts for months and months. Even the Sulzburgers might enjoy the change.

MTF on June 7, 2012 at 9:18 AM

Eastern Europe as a whole doesn’t like Obama. They are afraid that they he is going to sell them out to appease the Russians. They all remember that open microphone when Obama said he would if he was re-elected.

SC.Charlie on June 7, 2012 at 9:25 AM

New documents prove that Obama joined the Socialist “New Party” in the 1990s despite his denial.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/302031/obamas-third-party-history-stanley-kurtz#

Resist We Much on June 7, 2012 at 9:28 AM

I certainly do not count myself among the “elite.”

urban elitist on June 7, 2012 at 9:08 AM

Well…if you don’t want to be perceived as an “elitist”:

1. You should not have used the word as part of your name.
2. You shouldn’t write condescending posts which identify you as such.

kingsjester on June 7, 2012 at 9:41 AM

I would suggest giving Ilves a ten minute speaking spot in Tampa. But if the GOP goes down that path, the Dems would follow and use it to promote one world socialist government.

thuja on June 7, 2012 at 9:44 AM

So, they reacted poorly to the initial shock — allowing a recession to become a depression — and their recovery has stalled with unemployment at 11.5%. This is not an effective advertisement for austerity. And, if the government budget is in balance, how much individual wealth is being lost when the economy continues to limp.

Also, not that their tax rates appear to be pretty high — are you willing to pay that price?

urban elitist on June 7, 2012 at 9:08 AM

Documentation or STFU.

OhioCoastie on June 7, 2012 at 9:44 AM

Spending is the leftist’s heroin. To these now crazed individuals there is no stopping, only increasing. The dream policies they fantasize can’t be changed, it’s all they’ve got & it’s impossible for them to admit error. True of totalitarians everywhere.

arand on June 7, 2012 at 10:02 AM

Paul Kruman is to New York what Alan Grayson is to Orlando. Both are babbling fools who say things that even brainwashed lemmings with single digit IQs could not begin to believe. What is more unbelievable is there are people who are so lacking in intelligence that they actually consider these loons relevant.

volsense on June 7, 2012 at 10:09 AM

So, they reacted poorly to the initial shock — allowing a recession to become a depression — and their recovery has stalled with unemployment at 11.5%. This is not an effective advertisement for austerity.

urban elitist on June 7, 2012 at 9:08 AM

So, they reacted poorly to the initial shock – spending trillions to avert a depression, resulting in a recession – and the workforce participation rate, years later, is still below 59%, the lowest in history. This is not an effective advertisement for Obama.

MadisonConservative on June 7, 2012 at 10:10 AM

Reminds me of Harold Macmillan’s (definitely snooty and possibly anti-Jewish) quip about Margaret Thatcher (“the greengrocer’s daughter”) and her meritocratic approach to government: that she had “more Estonians than Etonians.”

Tzetzes on June 6, 2012 at 10:23 PM

While Eton is definitely upper-crust, it does have a reputation as being sort of limp-wristed and a sort of “laboratory” for public* schoolboys to experiment with their “feminine sides.” He may not have realised it, but he was actually giving Baroness Thatcher a compliment. Macmillan stressed the STON(E) in Estonians. The Iron Lady and her government definitely had bigger “stones” than any government produced by Eton in decades — before and after — including both Macmillian’s and that of Muffin Cameron.

* “Public schools” in Britain are private schools like Eton, Harrow, Westminster, Marlborough, etc. Tuition runs around $50,000 a year at these schools. Boarders can pay more.

Resist We Much on June 7, 2012 at 10:11 AM

Incidentally, it actually is Ilves.

OhioCoastie on June 7, 2012 at 10:12 AM

New documents prove that Obama joined the Socialist “New Party” in the 1990s despite his denial.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/302031/obamas-third-party-history-stanley-kurtz#

Resist We Much on June 7, 2012 at 9:28 AM

Don’t put away the nuke screencap, Allah. We may need it again. Holy s**t.

MadisonConservative on June 7, 2012 at 10:12 AM

BREAKING NEWS!!!!!

Nobel Prize now to be awarded for LUNACY.

PappyD61 on June 6, 2012 at 11:03 PM

That’s not news. You’re forgetting Obama and Gore.

Christian Conservative on June 7, 2012 at 10:13 AM

@OhioCoastie – for this I did not dare to hope. I lurve him even more now.

@MadCon – I hope you’re right and people will actually care.

mrsknightley on June 7, 2012 at 10:15 AM

how much individual wealth is being lost when the economy continues to limp.

Entrepreneurs are flocking to Estonia. It has become a mecca for the Greeks, Spanish and other entrepreneurs in failed, socialist states.

BTW, why don’t you tell us what you think “austerity” is in Europe, as a whole?

I guarantee you that, if you spout The Ferret’s talking points, you are wrong.

Resist We Much on June 7, 2012 at 10:15 AM

It’s tongue in cheek — based on Palinista and Tea Party tendency to call people in my demographic “elitists” at the drop of a hat and their dismissal of urban residents as somehow not living in “real” America. Usually, here, I’m called much worse.

I certainly do not count myself among the “elite.”

urban elitist on June 7, 2012 at 9:08 AM

oh…

you mean like your urban demographic’s tendency to call any American outside a major city a rube, hick, or hayseed? Or their tendency to cal Tea Party activists stupid, addled, all white and elderly?.. as well as fascists Nazi’s and racists? and let’s not forget the urbanite love of labeling anything rural as backward, fundamentalist and even like the Taliban?

like that?

Across this country when Pelosi Reid and Obama tried to drag this country hard HARD left.. millions of Americans, including many disgruntled democrats stood up and said NO.. we are not going there.

and the response by the “tolerant” “dissent loving” left in Congress and the White House?

The urban left just spreads the love around..

and around..

and irony..

is lost on liberals..

Politics ain’t beanbag..

but this liberal whining about only our side being uncivil is really getting lame, old..

and common as dirt.

mark81150 on June 7, 2012 at 10:17 AM

So, they reacted poorly to the initial shock — allowing a recession to become a depression — and their recovery has stalled with unemployment at 11.5%. This is not an effective advertisement for austerity. And, if the government budget is in balance, how much individual wealth is being lost when the economy continues to limp.

Also, not that their tax rates appear to be pretty high — are you willing to pay that price?

The initial shock for us was the bursting of our local real estate bubble. This was followed later on by the worldwide financial crisis. Had it been only one, the situation would have been much better, but two major crisis in close succession really blew the air out of our collective lungs.

Our recovery has slowed – I believe last quarter was 3,9% growth, which is a slowing trend, but way better than most of Europe.

Obviously we cannot be really compared to the US, given that we have the population of one mid-sized US city. If we’d try printing money, we would find ourselves on top of the garbage pile faster than we could say QE.

kittysaidwoof on June 7, 2012 at 10:29 AM

Resist We Much on June 7, 2012 at 9:28 AM

This deserves a post, Ed/Allah.

kingsjester on June 7, 2012 at 10:33 AM

I sing with the Detroit Symphony Orchestra and we did a piece with the Estonian Men’s Chorus a while back. After the concert, their director came to our choir with a gift. He told us that it was how his basses could sing so low as he offered each of us a bottle of Estonian vodka. I’ve liked Estonia since then. I like it even better now.

miConsevative on June 7, 2012 at 10:39 AM

This deserves a post, Ed/Allah.

kingsjester on June 7, 2012 at 10:33 AM

Yep. It’s Stanley Kurtz, too, not some gadfly.

Resist We Much on June 7, 2012 at 10:45 AM

Oh, and the unemployment rate is 11.5% and your new hero is an elitist Ivy Leaguer.

urban elitist on June 7, 2012 at 8:31 AM

As opposed to what is it in whatever s**thole inner city you’re in? Or compared to 22% and an economy in free fall, in Greece?

6.7% debt to GDP. Must suck to be a leftist piece of garbage, and thereby feel the need to sway the stupid (and NY Times readers) into thinking that’s somehow a bad thing, not crapping on your children and grandchildren.

I wonder what Estonia’s (insert demographic statistic here) compares to the inner city s**thole you reside in?

MNHawk on June 7, 2012 at 10:59 AM

Heh. He’s really from Leonia, New Jersey.

Seth Halpern on June 7, 2012 at 11:18 AM

Most Americans don’t know (or don’t care) that the Baltic Countries of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania were the first to flip-off the Soviets. Poland, being much larger and allegedly more important, sucked the oxygen out of the media coverage of the Baltic Revolution.
While living in Germany the last half of the 90s, I met a group of workers from Estonia in one of my favorite Italian restaurants (they served German food too) and they were industrious hard-working, temporary migrants who built custom log homes with Swedish lumber. I bought them a few round of drinks to celebrate their ‘nads and gave them each an American Custom High-Performance T-Shirts. They were in hog heaven, as it were. As we spoke in broken English and German, they knew that at least one American appreciated their spirit and nerve re: dumping the USSR.
And a good time was had by all!
Good people. Decent people, despite the machinations of George Soros who tried (and was indicted) for trying to sink the economies of all three countries.
Unfortunately, that thing Krugman has NO idea what living under the Soviet jack-booted thugs was like. If only Krugman had to actually WORK for a living, he’d be on the dole – the full monty, as he possesses no marketable skills.
~(Ä)~

Karl Magnus on June 7, 2012 at 11:48 AM

I am a knitter and bought a book about Estonian lace, and wow. Many cultures have developed wonderful knitting techniques, its such an amazing combination of skill and art, but the Estonia lace is up there in my opinion. There are stitches that cannot be duplicated by machine today. A lace stole I made using their traditional stitches is probably the most complimented thing I’ve knit. Quite the amazing people who had that workmanship.

Anyway, if you read the article, it said they cut ministry pay by 20% and other government service pay by 10%, as well as reforming their entitlements to make them sustainable. It wasnt easy but they all pulled together and sacrificed to do it. They are on the forefront of counties that need to tackle our debt and spending. We should be so lucky to have the will and determination to do as well as Estonia.

rose-of-sharon on June 7, 2012 at 12:03 PM

Obesity in America: To Win, We Have to Lose Government

Caught this headline today and thought that the piece missed the metaphor.

We have not just a fat government, but an “obese government.”
You don’t fix an “obese government” with “binge spending.”

I’m don’t think Michelle Obama would recommend that an obese person have a little “caloric stimulus” to help them lose weight.

J_Crater on June 7, 2012 at 12:12 PM

I’ve always liked Estonia. A country I’d certainly like to visit.

Seeing it on TV, it reminded me of France.. but without the French.

Reaps on June 6, 2012 at 11:10 PM

France without the French? Sounds like heaven to me

jayhawkingeorgia on June 6, 2012 at 11:16 PM

But do they go down all the way??

Nutstuyu on June 7, 2012 at 12:19 PM

In my list of countries to flee to were America to fall, Estonia was near the top of my list. They fierce free market advocates, self sufficient, and a beautiful people. The downside is that Estonia is [b]freeing cold[/b], Estonian is one of the hardest languages for an English speaker to learn, and they have a small native population with a low birth rate meaning immigration from the failing western Euro countries could easily wipe out their sensible world view.

Singapore is the best bet. They speak English and are free.

Daemonocracy on June 7, 2012 at 1:17 PM

Oh, and the unemployment rate is 11.5% and your new hero is an elitist Ivy Leaguer.

urban elitist on June 7, 2012 at 8:31 AM

Ah. A self-loathing elitist. I see.

Mary in LA on June 7, 2012 at 1:20 PM

It’s tongue in cheek — based on Palinista and Tea Party tendency to call people in my demographic “elitists” at the drop of a hat and their dismissal of urban residents as somehow not living in “real” America. Usually, here, I’m called much worse.

I certainly do not count myself among the “elite.”

urban elitist on June 7, 2012 at 9:08 AM

Ah. A hypocritical self-loathing elitist. I see.

Mary in LA on June 7, 2012 at 1:22 PM

BTW, I am sincerely delighted to virtually meet all y’all Estonians. I hope to visit your wonderful country someday!

Mary in LA on June 7, 2012 at 1:28 PM

Romney/Ilves

AP is taunting the birthers. I only point this out because the birthers might not be smart enough to get it.

thuja on June 7, 2012 at 1:33 PM

AP is taunting the birthers. I only point this out because the birthers might not be smart enough to get it.

thuja on June 7, 2012 at 1:33 PM

thuja, I disagree. IMHO, AP is essentially kind-hearted (maybe I shouldn’t be saying this out loud!), and I’ve never noticed him “taunting” his loyal readership.

My take on the “Romney/Ilves” or “Ilves/Romney” thing is that AP is indulging us all in a wonderful fantasy — political eye-candy, if you will. :-)

Mary in LA on June 7, 2012 at 1:42 PM

I’m sorry but the head of state of a former Soviet Republic up to his elbows in the shove of government trumps an ivory tower NY Times marginal thinker like Krugman any day.

curved space on June 7, 2012 at 6:25 PM

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