Big Labor drops a do-over deuce

posted at 8:41 am on June 6, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

Well, well, well.  It turns out that the majority of Wisconsin voters don’t sympathize much with the plight of poor, downtrodden … government workers.  More than a year after public-employee unions in Wisconsin and the labor movement nationwide tried to make an example of Republicans in Wisconsin for enacting collective-bargaining reforms — which have save the state $1 billion already — they have won exactly one seat in the state Senate, and potentially a recount in another:

All eyes Wednesday will be on the 21st District. Results posted early Wednesday showed Lehman with 36,255 votes to 35,476 for Wanggaard with 100% of precincts reporting. The margin of 779 could bring a recount.

In a statement, Senate Democratic Leader Mark Miller said:

“Tonight, Wisconsinites across the 21st Senate District elected a new State Senator. By electing a Democratic Senate, the people of Wisconsin have opened the door to responsible dialogue and if needed provide a bulwark against continued political extremism, and restored checks and balances to the Wisconsin Legislature. I look forward to working again with Senator-elect Lehman in the State Senate in the coming months.”

Wanggaard’s campaign manager Justin Phillips issued his own statement, hinting at a recount:

“We owe it to all of Senator Wanggaard’s supporters and the voters of Wisconsin to thoroughly examine the election and its results and act accordingly once we have all of the information.”

The results bring an end – for now – to recall elections of lawmakers after the November 2010 election of Gov. Scott Walker and the firestorm that followed. Tuesday’s results follow a series of recall elections in 2011 when Democrats picked up two seats in recalls involving nine senators, cutting into the Republican’s majority. The majority slipped to a tie after Galloway’s resignation.

If Lehman’s win holds, Democrats assume a 17-16 majority, at least until next November’s elections. It’s unknown whether the Senate will convene in a special session before then.

That’s correct — the Wisconsin Senate will be out of session until 2013.  In November, 16 of the 33 seats will be up for grabs, and thanks to the redistricting that will be in place for the first time in that election, Republicans are supposed to pick up at least two seats.  The unions spent millions of dollars and over a year’s worth of effort to get a temporary one-seat majority in a chamber that will never meet in session.   And that’s assuming that their lone win from last night holds up in a recount. Congratulations, Big Labor!

What of all the other races?   Unions and Democrats contested ten state Senate races over the past year, one Supreme Court position, and the Governor and Lt. Governor offices.  They ended up farther back than when they started.  Scott Walker improved his 2010 performance by 125,000 votes, and Barrett lost by a bigger percentage than in 2010.  Rebecca Kleefisch trounced her opponent, who hadn’t even been on record as voting until 2008.

This led to an inevitable amount of whining afterward about Democrats being outspent 7-1, but that only looks at the spending from the campaigns, and only in the gubernatorial election.  Unions dropped millions into Wisconsin in an effort to punish politicians who had the temerity to impose some fiscal discipline on the government class.  They calculated that voters would find bureaucrats more sympathetic than the taxpayers getting fleeced by the WEAC Trust and the PEUs.  They bet wrong.

Politico calls them the biggest loser, and for good reason.  The unions put on a great demonstration of their impotence over the last year and a half:

Big Labor went all in on the Wisconsin recall — putting millions of dollars, months of organizing and its reputation as a political superpower on the line to defeat GOP Gov. Scott Walker.

Then they got trounced on Election Day.

Walker’s decisive victory over Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett on Tuesday has demonstrated the vulnerability of a long-formidable movement whose ranks are thinning across the country. The failed recall attempt has energized organized labor’s foes and emboldened lawmakers to pick fights with unions in other states. And it has underscored the fact that unions — a potent source of political power and dollars for Democrats — aren’t going to be the left’s counter to conservative groups’ outside cash in November.

They never should have picked this fight in the first place.  Big Labor’s David Prosser/JoAnn Kloppenburg failure should have warned them to drop the recall effort against Walker and Kleefisch and instead used the time to keep the threat of their action in reserve.  Instead, they played their card, and it turned out to be a deuce in a do-over.

Update: It was ten state Senate races, not eight, as Steve Eggleston reminds me.  In the comments, Steve notes that the margin in that close loss will be about 1% of the vote, likely too wide for a recount to matter.


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Just say NO to PolygaMitt!

imacoward on June 6, 2012 at 11:22 AM

Um, unlike Obama’s father, neither Mitt nor his father are/were polygamists or bigamists.

You probably don’t want to play the polygamy card, especially since Muslims in America are about on par with Mormons with regard to polygamy and they are Obama voters.

Polygamy, Too!

Resist We Much on June 6, 2012 at 11:55 AM

In practice, that’s usually how those regimes operate, so I don’t see any reason the two philosophies can’t work in concert.

Good Solid B-Plus on June 6, 2012 at 11:53 AM

Germany, France, UK, Scandinavian Europe all liberal democracies with strong socialist influence. And they look nothing like the communist-fascist nations you all like to point to as the only example of socialist philosophy.

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 11:56 AM

See my above response to MNHawk and apply it to yourself as well.

inthemiddle on June 6, 2012 at 11:50 AM

Oh, I see. You were making a joke — trying to pretend you were an overly sensitive liberal.

I think that kind of joke only works when everyone knows without doubt you are not an overly sensitive liberal.

The fact that you responded with insult doesn’t remove doubt.

farsighted on June 6, 2012 at 11:56 AM

And are you claiming that no brilliant art or music has come out of the West since the New Deal? Even considering the importance of public music education to the careers of great musicians? OK then…

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 11:54 AM

I think very little of the WPA productions were ‘brilliant art.’

Most were propaganda pieces meant to rally a depressed nation.

Good Solid B-Plus on June 6, 2012 at 11:56 AM

Are you saying corporatism cannot employ socialism?

MadisonConservative on June 6, 2012 at 11:44 AM

Considering that corporatism is about consolidating resources amongst a small set of elite corporations/plutocrats. Then no, I don’t think corporatism can employ socialism.

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 11:48 AM

Consider that socialism is about consolidating resources amongst a small set of elite bureaucrats. Although I tend to think the current situation is more aptly described as socialism employing corporatism.

sadarj on June 6, 2012 at 11:56 AM

I hope Michelle wears the most expensive outfit possible (courtesy of taxpayers) as a big middle finger!

inthemiddle on June 6, 2012 at 9:02 AM

Maybe Prada makes a circus tent.

Kataklysmic on June 6, 2012 at 11:52 AM

Loool :)…

jimver on June 6, 2012 at 11:56 AM

Typically takes a higher level of reasoning to detect. Thus, I’m not surprised by your reaction.

inthemiddle on June 6, 2012 at 11:48 AM

Oh, I get it. You made a funny. Ha Ha. That’s about as funny as a leftist coward pretending to be some kind of moderate.

Seriously, chumplett. I’m happy to see you’re recovered from last night and you’ve jumped right back into the saddle with another poll that says you pwn all!

Go get em, cowboy!

MNHawk on June 6, 2012 at 11:57 AM

I hope Michelle wears the most expensive outfit possible (courtesy of taxpayers) as a big middle finger!

inthemiddle on June 6, 2012 at 9:02 AM

Maybe Prada makes a circus tent.

Kataklysmic on June 6, 2012 at 11:52 AM

Loool :)…

jimver on June 6, 2012 at 11:56 AM

Perhaps she’ll reprise the drapes from the Oval Office that she wore once.

slickwillie2001 on June 6, 2012 at 11:58 AM

Consider that socialism is about consolidating resources amongst a small set of elite bureaucrats. Although I tend to think the current situation is more aptly described as socialism employing corporatism.

sadarj on June 6, 2012 at 11:56 AM

But aren’t you in favor of wealth trickling up to elite corporatists? Isn’t the idea that somehow it will eventually trickle back down?

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 11:59 AM

Then no, I don’t think corporatism can employ socialism.

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 11:48 AM

You do not understand socialism. No surpise. Most socialists don’t.

farsighted on June 6, 2012 at 11:59 AM

And are you claiming that no brilliant art or music has come out of the West since the New Deal?

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 11:54 AM

Western art has been on a downward spiral for at least a hundred years. I do not, however, blame the New Deal for that.

sadarj on June 6, 2012 at 11:59 AM

I hope Michelle wears the most expensive outfit possible (courtesy of taxpayers) as a big middle finger!

inthemiddle on June 6, 2012 at 9:02 AM

Does Prada charge by the square yard?

Chuck Schick on June 6, 2012 at 12:00 PM

Yeah sorry, but the vast majority of Americans find Michelle Obama to be stylish and beautiful and they are right. I’m not a fan of her husband, but homegirls skin, hair and drag are laid for the Gods.

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 11:17 AM

Don’t get carried away, butt-kisser. He was only remarking that, lately, Mooch doesn’t constantly look as though she was dressed in a dark closet by six blind orcs.
Someone must have finally screwed up the courage to tell her just how tacky, low-class and dirt-common she looked.

She’s still tacky, low/no-class and dirt-common – as well as being an America-hating shrew. She just doesn’t dress as badly lately.

Solaratov on June 6, 2012 at 12:01 PM

I think very little of the WPA productions were ‘brilliant art.’

Most were propaganda pieces meant to rally a depressed nation.

Good Solid B-Plus on June 6, 2012 at 11:56 AM

Your personal opinion of the quality of that art is only that, but there is no question that it produced things of beauty that inspired others. And I notice that you failed to address my argument around royal/noble patronage of the arts? I’ll add to that papal/protestant support of the arts considering the tight relationship between the papacy and governance and prostestant churches and the western european state.

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 12:01 PM

You are familiar with artistic patronage aren’t you? And you do know that nearly all noble wealth was linked to the power and whim of the Crown right?

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 11:54 AM

And many of history’s greatest artists and authors had no patrons. You can’t create great culture by subsidizing it.

Good Solid B-Plus on June 6, 2012 at 12:01 PM

Just say NO to PolygaMitt!

imacoward on June 6, 2012 at 11:22 AM

I may be slow, but I get the sarcasm in this now. HA HA LMAO! You’re just playing us, knowing that we know your President’s baby daddy had 3 baby mamas at once, right?

MNHawk on June 6, 2012 at 12:02 PM

You do not understand socialism. No surpise. Most socialists don’t.

farsighted on June 6, 2012 at 11:59 AM

France, Germany, UK, Scandinavia. Respond please.

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 12:02 PM

Your personal opinion of the quality of that art is only that, but there is no question that it produced things of beauty that inspired others. And I notice that you failed to address my argument around royal/noble patronage of the arts? I’ll add to that papal/protestant support of the arts considering the tight relationship between the papacy and governance and prostestant churches and the western european state.

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 12:01 PM

And your personal opinion is just that, as well. It has no more weight than anyone else’s. Given your track record at this Conservative blog…less.

kingsjester on June 6, 2012 at 12:04 PM

The important part is not withholding Union dues for government workers: make the workers have to fork over the cash on their own.

Result? About 2/3 drop in the number paying the Union.

That should be the gentlest reform that even a Blue State governor should seek. Then, in a year, go after collective bargaining and giving the State, counties and municipalities the ability to start charting their own courses on pension amounts, health care costs and such.

Once the money support is gone, the rest begins to become easier.

ajacksonian on June 6, 2012 at 10:35 AM

This.

The argument can and should be made that states incur expenses functioning as the collection agency for the unions’ dues – an unnecessary expense from the public’s perspective.

On another subject, the dems are pointing to the exit polling giving Obama a 6% edge over Romney as a silver lining. These are the same exit polls that differed greatly from last night’s final result. I’d bet that it’s closer to even or perhaps even in Romney’s favor.

LooseCannon on June 6, 2012 at 12:04 PM

And many of history’s greatest artists and authors had no patrons. You can’t create great culture by subsidizing it.

Good Solid B-Plus on June 6, 2012 at 12:01 PM

And many did. But more to the point, many of the great artists and authors who had no patrons lived in societies without credit reports, and in significantly less expensive COLs.

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 12:04 PM

And I notice that you failed to address my argument around royal/noble patronage of the arts? I’ll add to that papal/protestant support of the arts considering the tight relationship between the papacy and governance and prostestant churches and the western european state.

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 12:01 PM

Royal patronage is fine, as long as it pleases the prince. Meanwhile, we live in a representative republic, and I don’t think our elected officials should be able to subsidize culture that they personally find appealing.

Knowing liberal ‘taste,’ it’ll be mostly in the nature of Duchamp and the Cremaster Cycle, I’m sure. Oh, and a little bit of ‘cowboy poetry,’ of course.

Good Solid B-Plus on June 6, 2012 at 12:04 PM

But aren’t you in favor of wealth trickling up to elite corporatists? Isn’t the idea that somehow it will eventually trickle back down?

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 11:59 AM

No. I’m in favor of being allowed to keep the fruits of my own labor, not having some bureaucrat decide how much should be distributed to me. I don’t really care if some “elite corporatist” makes 100 times as much money as I do.

No matter what system of economics or government we have, there will always be inequality. All I want is the freedom to live my life as I will, and not as a slave to the state.

sadarj on June 6, 2012 at 12:05 PM

France, Germany, UK, Scandinavia. Respond please.

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 12:02 PM

When did an entire region comprised of several distinct nation states become a country in its own right?

totherightofthem on June 6, 2012 at 12:05 PM

Maybe Prada makes a circus tent.

Kataklysmic on June 6, 2012 at 11:52 AM

LOL!!!

justltl on June 6, 2012 at 12:05 PM

It’s called sarcasm. Typically takes a higher level of reasoning to detect. Thus, I’m not surprised by your reaction.

inthemiddle on June 6, 2012 at 11:48 AM

No, actually it takes a higher level of intellect to pull it off.

Thus I’m not surprised by your epic failure.

HumpBot Salvation on June 6, 2012 at 12:06 PM

Considering that corporatism is about consolidating resources amongst a small set of elite corporations/plutocrats. Then no, I don’t think corporatism can employ socialism.

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 11:48 AM

Then, you don’t know much about corporatism/fascism. I suggest that you read Ferdinand Tönnies’ Gemeinschaft und Gesellschaft (“Community and Society”), The Doctrine of Fascism by Benito Mussolini, The Vampire Economy – Doing Business Under Fascism by Günter Reimann, and books on the roots of American Nationalism and Progressivism.

Just read a few of the quotes that I have here of Progressives praising Fascism and even comparing FDR to Mussolini, who Roosevelt called an “admirable gentleman”:

The Left’s Lie About Fascism Will Outlive Cockroaches In A Nuclear Winter

Just consider what Time Magazine wrote in 1939:

“Most cruel joke of all, however, has been played by Hitler & Co. on those German capitalists and small businessmen who once backed National Socialism as a means of saving Germany’s bourgeois economic structure from radicalism. The Nazi credo that the individual belongs to the state also applies to business. Some businesses have been confiscated outright, on other what amounts to a capital tax has been levied. Profits have been strictly controlled. Some idea of the increasing Governmental control and interference in business could be deduced from the fact that 80% of all building and 50% of all industrial orders in Germany originated last year with the Government. Hard-pressed for food- stuffs as well as funds, the Nazi regime has taken over large estates and in many instances collectivized agriculture, a procedure fundamentally similar to Russian Communism.”

Source: Time Magazine; 2 January 1939.

Oh, and read the Nazi’s 25 point plan. Compare it to Mussolini’s, the Socialist Party of America’s 1932 platform, and the National Union for Social Justice principles (I won’t tell you who founded the NUSJ because you’ll faint). You’ll find that they aren’t very different.

Resist We Much on June 6, 2012 at 12:07 PM

And many did. But more to the point, many of the great artists and authors who had no patrons lived in societies without credit reports, and in significantly less expensive COLs.

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 12:04 PM

They also lived in a society with far fewer distractions and pretty limited career options.

Good Solid B-Plus on June 6, 2012 at 12:07 PM

Considering that corporatism is about consolidating resources amongst a small set of elite corporations/plutocrats. Then no, I don’t think corporatism can employ socialism.

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 11:48 AM

Socialism is about consolidating control of resources amongst a small set of elite politicians. If those politicians then transfer control to the corporations that backed them, where exactly does the socialism end?

MadisonConservative on June 6, 2012 at 12:08 PM

When did an entire region comprised of several distinct nation states become a country in its own right?

totherightofthem on June 6, 2012 at 12:05 PM

Fine, Denmark, Finland, Norway, and while we’re at it, Switzerland, Luxembourg and Canada. All nations who have adopted significantly more socialist policies than the U.S. and that have not descended into anything like Cuban or Soviet communism.

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 12:08 PM

Anyone seen the Dow this morning? I can’t help but think it’s a reflection of the optimism bleeding over from last night.

LooseCannon on June 6, 2012 at 12:09 PM

Resist We Much on June 6, 2012 at 12:07 PM

Once more with feeling. Please explain the non-oppressive non-dictatorships of Canada, the UK, France, Germany, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Finland, Sweden, Norway and Denmark.

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 12:10 PM

Meanwhile, this country has produced quite a few talented authors in this past century, not because they had royal patrons or subsidy money from giant WPA-style money sinks, but because they actually sold their work.

Last I checked, guys like Philip Roth, Don DeLillo and Thomas Pynchon aren’t living in squalor.

Good Solid B-Plus on June 6, 2012 at 12:11 PM

But aren’t you in favor of wealth trickling up to elite corporatists?

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 11:59 AM

NO. There’s where you confuse corporatism with free-market capitalism. We’re in favor of wealth trickling up to business owners, small and large, as a result of consumer demand, not as a result of government diktat.

Seriously, sometimes I think that the only reason some people aren’t conservative is that they truly misunderstand what we believe.

MadisonConservative on June 6, 2012 at 12:11 PM

They also lived in a society with far fewer distractions and pretty limited career options.

Good Solid B-Plus on June 6, 2012 at 12:07 PM

Which is precisely why we need the state to subsidize artistic pursuits to give artists the freedom and isolation necessary to continue to produce great arts. Creativity is much harder to produce when you work 60 hours a week. I mean the decline of art in this society is almost entirely typified by the increasing fast pace of our lives. Can anyone even notice that the radio plays the same 20 songs because all radio stations are owned by 6 huge conglomerates?

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 12:13 PM

Resist We Much on June 6, 2012 at 11:45 AM

You are a fraud and hypocrite sister. You may impress most of these misinformed sheep with your endless diatribe however some of us still have enough common sense to call your bs.

As I have said numerous times here, a sketch or Obama win doesn’t affect me financially. II will make the same and pay the same tax under both men. What pains me is seeing how easy it is to buy our politicians. What pains me is seeing idiots like you rooting for America’s failure.

I used to respect your opinions but you proved to me last night that you are nothing but a hypocritical fraud. You believe it’s okay for anyone be it soros or David Koch to single handily buy an American politician. Once again shame on you.

Uppereastside on June 6, 2012 at 12:14 PM

Once more with feeling. Please explain the non-oppressive non-dictatorships of Canada, the UK, France, Germany, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Finland, Sweden, Norway and Denmark.

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 12:10 PM

Most of the countries you just listed off are members of the European Union, a dictatorial organization that has been stripping the rights and sovereignty of those nations for 20 years. For Christ’s sake, they recently usurped Greece’s government and installed their chosen candidate as Prime Minister, completely annulling the power of the Greek people to choose their leaders.

MadisonConservative on June 6, 2012 at 12:14 PM

Once more with feeling. Please explain the non-oppressive non-dictatorships of Canada, the UK, France, Germany, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Finland, Sweden, Norway and Denmark.

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 12:10 PM

You do know that I didn’t become an American until 2002 and am a Brit by birth, don’t you?

We weren’t talking about “non-oppressive non-dictatorships,” now, were we? We were talking about whether socialism and corporatism/fascism could co-exist within the same state. They can and they do. In fact, if you had ever lived in, say, France or visited China, you would know this.

Resist We Much on June 6, 2012 at 12:15 PM

Once more with feeling. Please explain the non-oppressive non-dictatorships of Canada, the UK, France, Germany, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Finland, Sweden, Norway and Denmark.

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 12:10 PM

Unlike your President these countries mentioned will actually exploit their raw resources in order to fund their socialism, especially Canada and Norway. Your president thinks we can just fund his desired socialism through printed currency.

Any more questions?

MNHawk on June 6, 2012 at 12:16 PM

NO. There’s where you confuse corporatism with free-market capitalism. We’re in favor of wealth trickling up to business owners, small and large, as a result of consumer demand, not as a result of government diktat.

And sometimes I believe that conservatives have a fundamental misunderstanding of human nature and history. The evidence is clear. Corporate elites have learned that they can pay themselves TONS of money at the expense of workers and despite of actual consumer demand. When you have an endless supply of speculative capital on Wall Street and everyone’s in agreement that short term gains are all that matters you have a version of capitalism that is NOTHING like what you describe. Instead, we have salaries ballooning at the top of corporations and increased productivity demands being placed on workers. When conservatives point out that management salaries have increased despite flat or even declining profits and increased worker productivity your response tends to be “well let workers find another job.” Where exactly? And then you say “educate yourself to give yourself more options” And yet more and more people with higher degrees are unemployed. Look around you. The problems in our economy are the direct result of the right’s total and complete unwillingness to even think that there’s something wrong with the way capitalism is operating here.

Perhaps this explains why people aren’t willing to look at Germany or Canada. They are capitalist and yet not in our situation.

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 12:17 PM

I mean the decline of art in this society is almost entirely typified by the increasing fast pace of our lives. Can anyone even notice that the radio plays the same 20 songs because all radio stations are owned by 6 huge conglomerates?

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 12:13 PM

This I will agree with, but I don’t think it’s something that can be changed through political upheaval. It’s the advances of technology that are crowding out art, literature, and other cultural pursuits. The internet is absorbing all media, and as a result it’s both swamping the populace with too much information to absorb, and dulling the creative mediums as people use more and more shortcuts to get what they want.

MadisonConservative on June 6, 2012 at 12:18 PM

Can anyone even notice that the radio plays the same 20 songs because all radio stations are owned by 6 huge conglomerates?

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 12:13 PM

Awesome. So buy a Satellite Radio, or download a bunch of indie rock to your smartphone. Even with ‘radio stations owned by huge conglomerates,’ there are thousands of great bands making fantastic music out there, not because the government has hand-picked and funded them, but because they strive to achieve, work side jobs, and build up a loyal fanbase in the…*gasp*…free market.

I mean the decline of art in this society is almost entirely typified by the increasing fast pace of our lives.

Who said art is declining? Great literature and cinema is produced every single year. Just because no one is painting haystacks and water lilies doesn’t mean art is dead.

Which is precisely why we need the state to subsidize artistic pursuits to give artists the freedom and isolation necessary to continue to produce great arts.

No, we don’t. We need people who are self-motivated, who are willing to struggle, and who can produce things that not only have artistic merit, but are palatable enough to consumers that they can monetize their art.

What we don’t need is hand-picked state-funded artists producing subsidized drivel.

Good Solid B-Plus on June 6, 2012 at 12:19 PM

Unlike your President these countries mentioned will actually exploit their raw resources in order to fund their socialism, especially Canada and Norway. Your president thinks we can just fund his desired socialism through printed currency.

Any more questions?

MNHawk on June 6, 2012 at 12:16 PM

Hold on a second. The argument is that socialism = a few small elite beauracrats controlling all the wealth. That’s not happening in those nations. Are you suggesting that if America drilled for more oil you’d support German/Canadian style social programs?

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 12:19 PM

Resist We Much on June 6, 2012 at 12:15 PM

We’re glad you’re here. I sang over in York and Londen in the summer of ’78, and have my family crest shipped from the York Insignia Shoppe.

You write very well.

Our Liberal Trolls are trying to derail the thread in their frustration and grief over the results of last night.

kingsjester on June 6, 2012 at 12:19 PM

It’s the advances of technology that are crowding out art, literature, and other cultural pursuits.

Wrong! Its the advance of capital. Its FCC policy that favors “competition” over “diversity” which allows big media conglomerates to squeeze out small players.

This I will agree with, but I don’t think it’s something that can be changed through political upheaval.

Its a shame that you understand limits on capital as “political upheaval.” Its almost as if you’re saying capital IS the state. Unfortunately you are correct, but your solution is to…continue to hope capital will trickle wealth down to you or something.

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 12:21 PM

It’s the advances of technology that are crowding out art, literature, and other cultural pursuits. The internet is absorbing all media, and as a result it’s both swamping the populace with too much information to absorb, and dulling the creative mediums as people use more and more shortcuts to get what they want.

MadisonConservative on June 6, 2012 at 12:18 PM

See, that’s just not true. It doesn’t “crowd out” music and literature. It’s easier than ever to produce those things and share your work with millions of people, nearly instantly. Bands that could have never gotten out of the garage in the 1960′s can now self-publish an album out of pocket for minimal cost and share it online with a gigantic audience.

Good Solid B-Plus on June 6, 2012 at 12:22 PM

Most of the countries you just listed off are members of the European Union, a dictatorial organization that has been stripping the rights and sovereignty of those nations for 20 years. For Christ’s sake, they recently usurped Greece’s government and installed their chosen candidate as Prime Minister, completely annulling the power of the Greek people to choose their leaders.

MadisonConservative on June 6, 2012 at 12:14 PM

Exactly right! 27 unelected, unaccountable apparatchiks in Brussels and their thousands of faceless apparatchiks dictate to 500 million people. Some idiots in Brussels can decide that we can’t have curvy bananas or water doesn’t hydrate and that’s that.

The Progs should not only ask the Greeks how they like their current unelected government that was imposed upon them, they should asked the Italians, who had Monti’s “technocratic” government installed without their consent.

Get this: The death penalty is banned in every country in the EU, but, in the Soviet-like EU, it was reintroduced in a footnote to the Treaty of Lisbon, upon neither the whole nor part of which the overwhelming majority of Europeans were allowed to vote. In its “explanations” and “negative definitions” accompanying the fundamental rights, the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union allows a reintroduction of the death penalty in case of war or imminent war, but also the killing of humans to suppress insurgency or riot without trial.

Resist We Much on June 6, 2012 at 12:23 PM

Even with ‘radio stations owned by huge conglomerates,’ there are thousands of great bands making fantastic music out there, not because the government has hand-picked and funded them, but because they strive to achieve, work side jobs, and build up a loyal fanbase in the…*gasp*…free market.

Most of those indie bands have some source of capital, usually a bandmate comes from a wealthy or upper middle class background and are subsidized by their parents(which is why most of them are white). But I guess its conservative vision to have the nobility class the only ones who can produce art.

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 12:23 PM

kingsjester on June 6, 2012 at 12:19 PM

Thank you! I’m glad to be here, too! A recent poll in the UK showed that 50% of Brits would leave if they could.

Resist We Much on June 6, 2012 at 12:25 PM

Most of the countries you just listed off are members of the European Union, a dictatorial organization that has been stripping the rights and sovereignty of those nations for 20 years.

One that they entered into voluntarily and one that they are currently in the process of dismantling. None of which is an indictment of the socialist policies/ideologies that have informed their governments since the end of World War II and which didn’t lead to a dictatorship. How is the EU any less dicatorial than NATO?

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 12:25 PM

Uppereastside on June 6, 2012 at 12:14 PM

I don’t know if it’s the ray of light we saw last night, with regards to getting America’s finances under control, or the complete mental breakdown of the left, that’s the biggest benefit of this election.

America is over…Democracy is over…waaaaaaaa there were no libertarians until Koch meanies donated to Reason…waaaaaaaa. WEA art is finished because of last night and mooch has great sister skin…or something.

Truly a spectacle to behold.

MNHawk on June 6, 2012 at 12:26 PM

I hope Michelle wears the most expensive outfit possible (courtesy of taxpayers) as a big middle finger!

inthemiddle on June 6, 2012 at 9:02 AM

You sound like an aristocrat on July 13, 1789.

Gelsomina on June 6, 2012 at 12:26 PM

Anyone seen the Dow this morning? I can’t help but think it’s a reflection of the optimism bleeding over from last night.

LooseCannon on June 6, 2012 at 12:09 PM

I had the same thought. I can’t wait to see the “rational exhuberance” on 11/7.

Kataklysmic on June 6, 2012 at 12:27 PM

The argument is that socialism = a few small elite beauracrats controlling all the wealth.

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 12:19 PM

Do you know that the EU is discussing taking the power away from the countries and giving it to the central bank and bankers?

Yep, all of those French Socialists wouldn’t have any say. The bankers would control everything.

Resist We Much on June 6, 2012 at 12:27 PM

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 12:08 PM

Yeah. And one of the things nearest and dearest to the hearts and minds of the Progressive left, home ownership for the “disadvantaged” doesn’t exist in those places. If you can’t prove (with absolute certainty, not just your word) that you can repay a mortgage loan (with a significant percentage paid as a down payment before you get a loan) you don’t get a loan. Ergo, you don’t get a house. Controlled by government regulation.

Let’s not forget the real, actual, class system that is in place in European countries. People have next to no chance to move up from one class to another. Do you want to know what else is so neat? Those countries, with the exception of Switzerland, where women didn’t even have the right to vote until 1971, and Canada (where they actually are allowed to access the oil beneath their top soil and, horrors of horrors, sell it to the highest bidder), and possibly Luxemborg, have populations about a 10th of ours and they are finding out that even they can’t keep the cradle to grave nanny state running on their high tax rates without taxing practically everything. Denmark,for example, literally taxes everything. Even after “lowering” personal income taxes, their top marginal rate is over 50% and that’s on top of the myriad other taxes they impose, not least of which is a VAT. Sounds like a great plan, right? How much do you want to pay to the government, anyway? I don’t recall you ever coming up with a number.

Thanks, but no thanks. I object to being a slave to the government.

totherightofthem on June 6, 2012 at 12:28 PM

Most of those indie bands have some source of capital, usually a bandmate comes from a wealthy or upper middle class background and are subsidized by their parents(which is why most of them are white). But I guess its conservative vision to have the nobility class the only ones who can produce art.

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 12:23 PM

Wrong. Stunningly wrong.

Most of them work multiple side jobs and live modest lifestyles to support their artistic endeavors.

But I forgot, in lib fantasy world, every white person is privileged, so they can’t possibly work for what they have. It has to be the patronage of a rich bandmate or family member.

I guess it’s the liberal vision that art be defined, funded and produced by the whims of a few elected officials, rather than decided by the free market.

Good Solid B-Plus on June 6, 2012 at 12:28 PM

France, Germany, UK, Scandinavia. Respond please.

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 12:02 PM

As I said, you do not understand socialism. Socialism is not equivalent to communism, though communism is a form of socialism. Communism is an extreme form of socialism. You can have socialism without communism.

There is a lot of gray area, there are stages, there are trends, and those trends can have a direction.

Marx recognized and outlined stages of socialism and the historic and economic trends towards greater and greater degrees of socialism.

farsighted on June 6, 2012 at 12:28 PM

And sometimes I believe that conservatives have a fundamental misunderstanding of human nature and history. The evidence is clear. Corporate elites have learned that they can pay themselves TONS of money at the expense of workers and despite of actual consumer demand. When you have an endless supply of speculative capital on Wall Street and everyone’s in agreement that short term gains are all that matters you have a version of capitalism that is NOTHING like what you describe.

Yes, and both Republicans and Democrats have propped up those corporations through bailouts that should never have occurred. If we allowed businesses to fail, many of those corporations would sink under the weight of their own unsustainable business practices. The thing is…only conservatives and Tea Parties are proposing that we return to true free-market capitalism. Your folks on the left want to entrench the corporations even more through centralized economic controls.

Instead, we have salaries ballooning at the top of corporations and increased productivity demands being placed on workers. When conservatives point out that management salaries have increased despite flat or even declining profits and increased worker productivity your response tends to be “well let workers find another job.” Where exactly?

I agree that it is becoming more and more difficult to start up your own business with the government rules and regulations that make it so hard for small startup companies, and favor big corporations. However, those rules and regulations are typically the modus operandi of the Left, not the Right. Sadly, the latter under Bush also bought that crap. Hopefully, leaders like Walker will be able, after this victory, to propose more of a return to traditional laissez-faire principles, and to give more encouragement to the many, many people in this country that have the skills and the talent to contribute to the economy in their own ways.

And then you say “educate yourself to give yourself more options” And yet more and more people with higher degrees are unemployed.

No s**t. I’ve got a BS in Business Administration and it took me seven months to find a job in 2006. Everybody goes to college now. More people have degrees. When college degrees were uncommon, they were worth more. Now that everyone goes to college, degrees are common, and hence worth less. Unless you’re going to tell people to stop going to college, no president is going to change that trend.

Look around you. The problems in our economy are the direct result of the right’s total and complete unwillingness to even think that there’s something wrong with the way capitalism is operating here.

The right knows that there is something wrong with crony capitalism. The right is in agreement with you on that point. Where we disagree is where you consider the type of capitalism we’re NOT practicing to be a failure, when in fact it was the type responsible for America’s rise to prosperity. You want to throw out the baby with the bathwater, as it were. Bad idea.

Perhaps this explains why people aren’t willing to look at Germany or Canada. They are capitalist and yet not in our situation.

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 12:17 PM

Um…Canada is a constitutional Monarchy, and Germany’s current financial standing is only as a result of being the benefactor of EU policy(which has s**t-all to do with capitalist principles).

MadisonConservative on June 6, 2012 at 12:29 PM

Hold on a second. The argument is that socialism = a few small elite beauracrats controlling all the wealth. That’s not happening in those nations. Are you suggesting that if America drilled for more oil you’d support German/Canadian style social programs?

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 12:19 PM

In a thread about Scott Walker’s election, that’s the argument? It was only last page Obama can’t possible be a socialist, next to those countries. Two pages ago it was about evil Koch donating to things like Reason and buying elections. Three pages ago it was about polls > actual elections

Focus!

MNHawk on June 6, 2012 at 12:30 PM

Uppereastside on June 6, 2012 at 12:14 PM

You don’t like me! You really don’t like me!

Anyone have a hanky???

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Not-Sally Field face off/real RWM face on:

Kiss my (_*_), bro.

Resist We Much on June 6, 2012 at 12:31 PM

Wrong! Its the advance of capital. Its FCC policy that favors “competition” over “diversity” which allows big media conglomerates to squeeze out small players.

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 12:21 PM

So you’re saying that rich people who financed intellectual pursuits in the 19th century didn’t discriminate in who they backed? They didn’t direct their capital towards who they found to be the most “competitive”?

MadisonConservative on June 6, 2012 at 12:32 PM

Resist We Much on June 6, 2012 at 12:31 PM

I will right after you are done sucking me off sis.

Uppereastside on June 6, 2012 at 12:35 PM

See, that’s just not true. It doesn’t “crowd out” music and literature. It’s easier than ever to produce those things and share your work with millions of people, nearly instantly. Bands that could have never gotten out of the garage in the 1960′s can now self-publish an album out of pocket for minimal cost and share it online with a gigantic audience.

Good Solid B-Plus on June 6, 2012 at 12:22 PM

Yes, it’s easier than ever…and as a result, many, many people with little or no talent can list their works next to people who have actually produced something worth a damn. What if you went to an art gallery, and every inch of every wall and surface had some sort of exhibit covering it? What if most of those works were terrible?

MadisonConservative on June 6, 2012 at 12:36 PM

It’s called sarcasm. Typically takes a higher level of reasoning to detect. Thus, I’m not surprised by your reaction.

inthemiddle on June 6, 2012 at 11:48 AM

And sometimes, what you call “sarcasm” just comes across as more of your whining and sniveling.

We won. You lost. STFU!

Solaratov on June 6, 2012 at 12:36 PM

So you’re saying that rich people who financed intellectual pursuits in the 19th century didn’t discriminate in who they backed? They didn’t direct their capital towards who they found to be the most “competitive”?

MadisonConservative on June 6, 2012 at 12:32 PM

Not only that, it’s arguing that “royal” (government) patronage would create “artistic diversity.” Of course, that assumes that “artistic diversity” is a worthwhile goal. Who decides which art is “diverse” enough to be funded? Which art is of high enough quality to be given the government stamp of approval? Why, the same geniuses who decided that Solyndra was a great company to receive taxpayers money.

Sign me up!

Instead of Catch-22, Lolita, Infinite Jest and Portnoy’s Complaint, we’ll end up with paens to government excellence penned by Krugman, et al.

Good Solid B-Plus on June 6, 2012 at 12:37 PM

I had the same thought. I can’t wait to see the “rational exhuberance” on 11/7.

Kataklysmic on June 6, 2012 at 12:27 PM

Actually, I look for the economy to start showing signs of life in August-September as the inevitability of Obama’s defeat becomes more evident. (I just hope it’s not seen by those not paying attention as a plus for Obama.)

LooseCannon on June 6, 2012 at 12:38 PM

When did an entire region comprised of several distinct nation states become a country in its own right?

totherightofthem on June 6, 2012 at 12:05 PM

Fine, Denmark, Finland, Norway, and while we’re at it, Switzerland, Luxembourg and Canada. All nations who have adopted significantly more socialist policies than the U.S. and that have not descended into anything like Cuban or Soviet communism.

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 12:08 PM

You really are an imbecile of orders of magnitude….SWitzerland is one of the most conservatives countries in EUrope, with one of the strongest corporatist system (even you must have heard that the only thing they have in Switzerland is mighty BANKS!!!!), reason why they stayed out of the EU, The Euro and the rest of the socialist crappola emanating from that direction….in case you haven”t noticed, EUrope and its institutions are in crisis, in other words in deep sheite, and you find no better example of how wonderfully the socialist systems work but France and Germany…France is collapsing under the weight of its over inflated welfare state, as a Frenchman who still holds the citizenshop of that country it pains me to witness that…BTW, have you ever lived in EUrope for an extended period of time? then shut up already…I have lived most of my life in France and England and I can tell you that your socialist utopias are nothing but a bad dream for someone who values individual freedom and success…I love my country of birth, its history and culture to death, but I will take living in the US any time of the day, over living in the bureaucratic and undemocratic nightmare that the EU have become..and if you are in any doubt, the.EU is nothing else but socialism on steroids…and just before you embarrass yourself even more by praising the European entitlement heavens, note that they are all in free fall currently, with a few exceptions maybe…even.the Germans are tired of paying to support the overblown, corrupt entitlement systems of Southern European countries and the polls show that they would be more than happy with exiting the EU, if the profligate and corrupt welfare states of the south don’t get out of their own will, or accept the cuts and austerity that are the only eay out of the humongous mess created by these imbecile socialists who wanted a Greater Socialist EUrope in their delision of grandeur…

jimver on June 6, 2012 at 12:38 PM

How is the EU any less dicatorial than NATO?

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 12:25 PM

You have achieved the impossible. I’m speechless. Your ignorance is stunning.

I have to run out for a while. In the meantime, perhaps, you would like to take the opportunity to learn more about the EU going back to the Treaty of Rome.

We have been promised a referendum on joining the EU forever. It didn’t happen. The ruling elite “voluntarily joined” for us despite the majority never wanted to be part of the EU…just part of the original trade organisation.

Resist We Much on June 6, 2012 at 12:38 PM

Wrong! Its the advance of capital…

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 12:21 PM

Socialism 101 and Mr. Marx say…

The advance of Capital is a bad, bad thing. In fact, Capital is a bad, bad thing. Power to the Workers. Workers Unite!

farsighted on June 6, 2012 at 12:40 PM

Yes, it’s easier than ever…and as a result, many, many people with little or no talent can list their works next to people who have actually produced something worth a damn. What if you went to an art gallery, and every inch of every wall and surface had some sort of exhibit covering it? What if most of those works were terrible?

MadisonConservative on June 6, 2012 at 12:36 PM

I prefer what is “worth a damn” to be decided by the free market, not by government bureaucrats.

Anyone who decries the “death of art” just isn’t looking hard enough. I prefer sorting through the trash to get to the gems. If you’d prefer being limited to three or four ‘government-approved’ paintings, rock bands and novels, be my guest.

Example: Video games have become major productions, some of them costing as much to produce and grossing as much as a big studio Hollywood movie. Yet the past 5 years or so have seen the creation of some of the best indie games ever made.

Does a lot of crap get released? Oh, yeah. Can it be difficult for indie programmers to thrive? Sure. But services like Kickstarter and supportive fanbases have lead to some amazing things being made. Someone, that co-exists with all the big money Call of Duty knockoffs and licensed Spongebob Squarepants crap.

Good Solid B-Plus on June 6, 2012 at 12:43 PM

(which is why most of them are white).
 
libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 12:23 PM

 

The bringing race into every discussion though, I don’t understand.
 
lester on June 3, 2012 at 9:43 AM

rogerb on June 6, 2012 at 12:44 PM

One that they entered into voluntarily…

You’re taking a lot of liberty with the term “voluntarily”. Did they voluntarily ratify the Maastricht Treaty? Barely, after a lot of very, very close referendums. Did they ratify the Lisbon Treaty? Without referendums(except in Ireland, where the referendum failed), through parliamentary procedures, and completely ignoring polls throughout Europe that didn’t support it…yes, technically they did. Seriously, come on.

None of which is an indictment of the socialist policies/ideologies that have informed their governments since the end of World War II and which didn’t lead to a dictatorship.

The European Union dictates to all its member states numerous policies that, by any standard, ought to be sovereign.

How is the EU any less dicatorial than NATO?

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 12:25 PM

How many NATO initiatives have overridden our border and immigration policies? How many NATO initiatives have restricted our ability to levy tariffs and import taxes? How many NATO initiatives have overridden our representative democracy to install a new president? Your comparison is befuddling, bud.

MadisonConservative on June 6, 2012 at 12:49 PM

Uppereastside on June 6, 2012 at 12:35 PM

Like I was saying a while ago…

See ya, chumplett. That’s probably your last post.

MNHawk on June 6, 2012 at 12:49 PM

2nd Example: Tim Schafer is a genius. He is responsible for some of the finest electronic entertainment that is extant on this planet. However, his masterpiece, Grim Fandango, sold poorly. The adventure game genre largely died, and Schafer went on to other projects, which included the equally brilliant Psychonauts.

Fast forward to 2012, and he’s producing a new adventure game due to nearly $3.4 million in funding from 87,000 fans through Kickstarter. The free market recognizes greatness.

In libfree’s world, whether or not he could produce a new game would be due not to fan demand and funding, but government diktat.

Good Solid B-Plus on June 6, 2012 at 12:50 PM

I love when child libs throw out isolationist, lilly-white nation states as utopias of Socialism’s triumph and try to use them as a one-to-one comparison.

Listen libfree…it is obvious that you were raised by Hollywood to believe that there is an evil corporation behind all the world’s ills that is what is really keeping you from not being able to afford the latest iPad.

America’s system created a super-power and single greatest nation that anyone would want to live in. Not your childish socialist utopia. If trickle down was not working then this country would still be run by rail-road barons.

Just admit you are poor and pissed off about it…the end.

ClassicCon on June 6, 2012 at 12:50 PM

Anyone who decries the “death of art” just isn’t looking hard enough. I prefer sorting through the trash to get to the gems. If you’d prefer being limited to three or four ‘government-approved’ paintings, rock bands and novels, be my guest.

Good Solid B-Plus on June 6, 2012 at 12:43 PM

I don’t prefer anything to be “government-approved”. I want artwork that is backed by people with money to be elevated over the worthless crap that nobody wants to buy. With the internet, they’re all mixed together. Maybe you like sorting through trash, but a lot of us don’t have that kind of time.

MadisonConservative on June 6, 2012 at 12:51 PM

See ya, chumplett. That’s probably your last post.

MNHawk on June 6, 2012 at 12:49 PM

Yep. I’m at work. Would somebody let the Moderators know, please?

kingsjester on June 6, 2012 at 12:51 PM

Bands that could have never gotten out of the garage in the 1960′s can now self-publish an album out of pocket for minimal cost and share it online with a gigantic audience.

Good Solid B-Plus on June 6, 2012 at 12:22 PM

+1000. Most good music does literally come out of people’s basement/garage studios, now. They aren’t beholden to getting played on those very narrow interest radio stations.

And through tune in radio, you can listen to radio everywhere from Asia to JoeBob’s all prog internet radio station broadcasting from his basement.

MNHawk on June 6, 2012 at 12:57 PM

Maybe you like sorting through trash, but a lot of us don’t have that kind of time.

MadisonConservative on June 6, 2012 at 12:51 PM

I like having choices, and personally, I’ve never had trouble finding great music, movies, literature, TV shows, and video games.

I like knowing what 10,000 other gamers think of a particular game before I try it. It beats going to Blockbuster and renting an SNES game because the box art looks cool.

Also, thanks to Rotten Tomatoes, I was able to avoid seeing that hideous Green Lantern movie.

Good Solid B-Plus on June 6, 2012 at 12:57 PM

Also has anyone noticed that the jobs report has managed to see Obama get an uptick in all state and national polls, even Rasmussen has come down from their Romney +4 number. What’s going on?

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 10:59 AM

Prove it. Can’t find any such info at Polling Report.

Del Dolemonte on June 6, 2012 at 1:00 PM

I like having choices, and personally, I’ve never had trouble finding great music, movies, literature, TV shows, and video games.

I like having choices, as well. My choice is not having to sort through thousands of choices for the sake of avoiding a “top picks” list that I could browse quickly and easily.

I like knowing what 10,000 other gamers think of a particular game before I try it. It beats going to Blockbuster and renting an SNES game because the box art looks cool.

I like watching professionally made reviews that cover all aspects of gameplay, design, and presentation. It beats reading through 10,000 comments on a website, 2/3 of which consist of fanboy bulls**t, anyway.

Also, thanks to Rotten Tomatoes, I was able to avoid seeing that hideous Green Lantern movie.

Good Solid B-Plus on June 6, 2012 at 12:57 PM

Fair point on the GL movie, but Rotten Tomatoes is no more reliable than any film critic.

MadisonConservative on June 6, 2012 at 1:01 PM

One that they entered into voluntarily…

Libfreeordie

Huh, voluntarily???? What are you smoking?? Any idea how mnay times people of EUrope voted ‘no’ on the ratification treaty (The MAastricht one) only for the EU Masters to re-do the referendums over and over again until people were tforced into the submission of voting yes? Any idea that Fance voted initially no on the Maastricht Treaty (in 2005) , and so did Netherlanfds, and Ireland and Denmark…..forcing referendum after referendum unto people, until they say ‘yes’, do you call this ‘voluntary’??? Also, have you any idea that the Maastricht TReaty does not provide for a mechanism whereby an EU member can ge out? Does this not sound strange to you? They were contemplting Greece’s orderly exit from the EU a few months ago, only to discover to their much surprise ha there aren’t any provision in the treaty that stipulate when or how a coutry can get out of the EU?..again, do you call this ‘voluntary’, looks more like ‘trapped in’ to me, and this was by design…

jimver on June 6, 2012 at 1:03 PM

foul-blank-blank-blank sis.
 
Uppereastside on June 6, 2012 at 12:35 PM

 

C. Stop the anti immigrant and anti woman laws and rhetoric
 
Uppereastside on June 3, 2012 at 10:40 PM

 
It always slips out eventually, doesn’t it?

rogerb on June 6, 2012 at 1:04 PM

check out the polling released so far this week. There’s an awful lot of blue this week, things are trending back towards Obama after a post-gay marriage dip.

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 11:16 AM

LOL, most of those blue numbers are for State races.

Keep shoveling. You really should have one for each hand.

Del Dolemonte on June 6, 2012 at 1:06 PM

the vast majority of Americans find Michelle Obama to be stylish and beautiful

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 11:17 AM

LOL, which “poll” asked Americans if they thought she was “stylish and beautiful”? I find absolutely no polling asking that at this link:

http://pollingreport.com/o.htm

Del Dolemonte on June 6, 2012 at 1:09 PM

Fair point on the GL movie, but Rotten Tomatoes is no more reliable than any film critic.

MadisonConservative on June 6, 2012 at 1:01 PM

I prefer thousands of individual opinions to the writings of a single critic. I find myself disagreeing a lot with A.O. Scott and Roger Ebert, but I rarely disagree with how a movie is voted by the users as a whole on RT.

I like watching professionally made reviews that cover all aspects of gameplay, design, and presentation. It beats reading through 10,000 comments on a website, 2/3 of which consist of fanboy bulls**t, anyway.

MadisonConservative on June 6, 2012 at 1:01 PM

Why? The people on X-Play don’t know any more about video games than John and Jane Doe who comment on Kotaku or Giant Bomb.

Plus, if you only care about ‘approved’ critics, you have aggregate services like Metacritic. None of which were available pre-Internet. Back then it was Nintendo Power or bust.

Good Solid B-Plus on June 6, 2012 at 1:09 PM

Why? The people on X-Play don’t know any more about video games than John and Jane Doe who comment on Kotaku or Giant Bomb.

Plus, if you only care about ‘approved’ critics, you have aggregate services like Metacritic. None of which were available pre-Internet. Back then it was Nintendo Power or bust.

Good Solid B-Plus on June 6, 2012 at 1:09 PM

I’m not talking about X-Play. I’m taking about sites like IGN, GameTrailers, and GameSpot. The difference between them and commenters are that they know how to break down games into individually judged categories and critique them objectively. Sure, maybe this game’s story sucked, but maybe the gameplay would keep you coming back. Sure, maybe this game is pretty, but it’s filled with bugs that make the game unplayable.

MadisonConservative on June 6, 2012 at 1:17 PM

I’m not talking about X-Play. I’m taking about sites like IGN, GameTrailers, and GameSpot. The difference between them and commenters are that they know how to break down games into individually judged categories and critique them objectively. Sure, maybe this game’s story sucked, but maybe the gameplay would keep you coming back. Sure, maybe this game is pretty, but it’s filled with bugs that make the game unplayable.

MadisonConservative on June 6, 2012 at 1:17 PM

But with 1,000s of individual opinions, you tend to find out the same information. Plus, you’re not at the whims of one person’s eccentricities. For example, I know the Screwattack guys (their stuff is on GameTrailers), and they do good work, but I highly disagree with a lot of their reviews. I mean, they put Ecco the Dolphin on a “Top 10″ worst list. Who doesn’t like Ecco?!? That’s blasphemy.

Good Solid B-Plus on June 6, 2012 at 1:20 PM

America started her descent to 3rd world status yesterday. In these countries, the rich buy out politicians who continue lying to citizens about how voting against their best interest is actually good for them.

You see this in the middle east where dictators like Assad have an army of unemployed citizens willing to kill themselves over anyone that threatens this dictator.

RIP America- 1775-2012.

Uppereastside on June 6, 2012 at 11:22 AM

Wow, this dude’s Talking Points come right from DNC Central Casting.

So many Lies, so little time to respond.

1. In 1960, a Rich Democrat bootlegger bought the US Presidency for his son.

2. In 2004, a Rich Gigolo Democrat, the richest member of the US Senate, had billionaire Leftist George Soros, who now owns a big chunk of Cheney’s Halliburton, spend $25 million of his own money to buy him the Presidency. He failed.

3. And in 2008, your Dear Leader spent a record $750 million to buy the Presidency. He also set another new record, he got 70% of the high school dropouts to vote for him. No one had ever done that before.

You must be so proud of all of those elections. And of all that money.

F-

Del Dolemonte on June 6, 2012 at 1:21 PM

But with 1,000s of individual opinions, you tend to find out the same information. Plus, you’re not at the whims of one person’s eccentricities. For example, I know the Screwattack guys (their stuff is on GameTrailers), and they do good work, but I highly disagree with a lot of their reviews. I mean, they put Ecco the Dolphin on a “Top 10″ worst list. Who doesn’t like Ecco?!? That’s blasphemy.

Good Solid B-Plus on June 6, 2012 at 1:20 PM

Thou shalt not speak ill of the company that catapulted AVGN to stardom.

MadisonConservative on June 6, 2012 at 1:22 PM

Just say NO to PolygaMitt!

inthemiddle on June 6, 2012 at 11:22 AM

How many wives does Mitt have, Kid?

I find it breathtaking that you idiots on the Left Hate a religion that used to condone Free Sex (the Mormons), yet absolutely Love a religion that treats women and gays like dirt (Islam).

FAIL.

Del Dolemonte on June 6, 2012 at 1:23 PM

Thou shalt not speak ill of the company that catapulted AVGN to stardom.

MadisonConservative on June 6, 2012 at 1:22 PM

James is the same way. Nice guy, does good work, but I disagree with a lot of his opinions (real ones, not the ones he takes just for entertainment value on his videos).

Good Solid B-Plus on June 6, 2012 at 1:27 PM

Exactly right! 27 unelected, unaccountable apparatchiks in Brussels and their thousands of faceless apparatchiks dictate to 500 million people. Some idiots in Brussels can decide that we can’t have curvy bananas or water doesn’t hydrate and that’s that.

Resist We Much

…or ‘bent cucumbers” , that was the last summer drama in Europe :)…a few countries like Spain a.o. felt offended when their bent cucumbers didn’t pass the EU bureacrats tests :)…Oh, and I remember well the one with ‘water doesn’t hydrate’, I was visiting sith my family there and we were all cracking up, I even posted it on my FB page…even the staunchest of my dims friends here in the US were incredulous that the EU can actually dictate the shape of the cucumbers and proclaim by Diktaat that water doesn’ t hydrate :)… That’s the EU heaven where we should send libfreeordie to live for a while :)…she might be pleased to hear though that all cucumbers are straight in Europe as of last summer :)…

jimver on June 6, 2012 at 1:29 PM

If that’s what America really thinks about Mrs. Obama, then what on Earth do they think of Anne? She has a lower approval rating!

inthemiddle on June 6, 2012 at 11:24 AM

First of all, Kid, neither “First Lady” are polled for “approval”, they are polled for “favorability”. Fail.

And second, the most recent “poll” re. Ann Romney was done last week, by the DNC Mouthpiece CNN. In that “poll”, her favorability is 40%. But another 38% of them did not say one way or the other how they felt about her. Her unfavorability was only 22%.

Meanwhile, the very same CNN “poll” has Michelle O’bama’s unfavorability number 5% higher than Ann Romney’s.

Fail.

Del Dolemonte on June 6, 2012 at 1:29 PM

Just say NO to PolygaMitt!

inthemiddle on June 6, 2012 at 11:22 AM

I’d like to co-sign, but I can’t abide the Mormon bashing. It doesn’t really do anything for us and buys into logics that justify other oppressions against vulnerable groups. Keep it intellectually consistent.

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 11:30 AM

Hard to do, since you Leftists are hardly “intellectual”. After all, you needed a record number of high school dropouts (70%) to get O’bama elected the first time.

You’ll need the other 30% this time to even have a chance.

Del Dolemonte on June 6, 2012 at 1:31 PM

I will right after you are done sucking me off sis.

Uppereastside on June 6, 2012 at 12:35 PM

Like that would ever happen. You’d be too busy trying on my shoe and handbag collection.

By the way, you should try Chanel Lumière. It will cover that 5 o’clock shadow much better than that Maybelline you are using.

Resist We Much on June 6, 2012 at 1:32 PM

jimver on June 6, 2012 at 1:29 PM

LOL! We can send it to the Isle of Wight and tell it to sing Kung Fu Fighting.

hehehehe

Resist We Much on June 6, 2012 at 1:35 PM

Perhaps this explains why people aren’t willing to look at… Canada. [It] are capitalist and yet not in our situation.

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 12:17 PM

So, you’d be up for a 29% top marginal income tax rate, a 10% capital gains rate, a 19% dividend rate, and a 15% corporate tax rate?

Resist We Much on June 6, 2012 at 1:38 PM

Even considering the importance of public music education to the careers of great musicians? OK then…

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 11:54 AM

Name some of these great musicians who were beneficiaries of public music education, and tell us where they went to school.

Del Dolemonte on June 6, 2012 at 1:40 PM

Most of those indie bands have some source of capital, usually a bandmate comes from a wealthy or upper middle class background and are subsidized by their parents(which is why most of them are white).

libfreeordie on June 6, 2012 at 12:23 PM

Utter Leftist Musical Ignorance. Epic Fail.

Throughout musical history, most musicians continued to work day jobs while playing gigs at night. Including some of the biggest names in the business.

Del Dolemonte on June 6, 2012 at 1:46 PM

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