A few thoughts on converts, faith, and politics

posted at 3:31 pm on June 3, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

Last week, the National Catholic Register and my friend Salena Zito wrote about Jo Ann Nardelli, a former Democratic Party official in Pennsylvania who switched to the GOP on the basis of her faith.  As with most conversions, a moment of epiphany occurred in Nardelli’s political life, and her experience shows the problems that Barack Obama and Democrats will have in holding onto their 2008 coalitions in areas like the Rust Belt:

She said it started a few weeks ago, ironically as she and her husband were getting ready for Mass and watching Meet the Press when Joe Biden, a Catholic, cited his support for gay marriage.

This shocked her. She said she’d always related to Biden. She said he reminded her of her father. But this announcement shocked her. And then, shortly after, President Obama announced that he’d “evolved” into supporting gay “marriage.”

And then as a Democratic committeewoman she received her agenda from the party espousing the same position. “To stand up and agree and sign off on this I couldn’t do it,” she said. “So I talked to our priest.”

While she didn’t say what they talked about, she said Monsignor Little warned her that she would be the focus of much criticism.

His words have proved prophetic. Nardelli said she’s heard from people saying she hates gays or that she’s a bigot. It got so bad that she started screening her calls. And she didn’t know who was calling to say something terrible or something nice to her. She said that even when Republicans call her, she’s afraid to pick up simply because she doesn’t know them.

“I’ve been a Democrat for over 40 years,” she laughed. “I don’t know any of the Republicans.”

She has paid a price for her decision in her community:

The longtime Democrat from Blair County quit the party and registered as a Republican, and then boldly walked in a Memorial Day parade in support of GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney.

“A couple of people who I thought were friends turned their backs on me, literally, as I was walking in the parade,” she said on Tuesday. “I have to admit it made me sad, but that is the way it is.”

Nardelli, 59, a former borough council member in Newry, outside Altoona, registered as a Democrat after high school and rose to the party’s executive board. She was vice president of the women’s caucus and first vice president of the Pennsylvania Federation of Democratic Women when she quit last week. …

Nardelli said she quit the party not because she lost an election for county commissioner, as her critics contend, but because the party is moving away from her values.

The final straw was Obama’s support for gay marriage, she said. “That, and the tug-of-war between the Catholic Church and the administration over the (health care) mandate have pushed me over the edge.”

Nardelli will have new friends, of course, as most organizations welcome converts rather readily — and I suspect even her previous friends will rethink their hostility after the election.  Converts made a lot of news this past week, with Artur Davis’ open letter describing himself as a center-right thinker drawn more to the GOP than his former Democratic Party allowing for some bragging rights among Republicans and conservatives.  Converts reinforce our own belief systems, which is probably why apostates (in the political sense) make us angrier than the entrenched opposition, especially when the “apostates” (converts in the other direction) become very vocal about their views.  That’s why Nardelli is seeing turned backs in her hometown parades this week, and why both sides reserve special ire for converts/apostates in general.

For today, though, I’d like to focus on a couple of issues about faith and politics.  Some of our readers express surprise that faithful Catholics can ever be Democrats in the first place.  Conservatives — especially pro-life conservatives — focus on Democratic Party support for abortion and declare the party anathema, and I have a lot of sympathy for that position, quite obviously.  The heart of the Catholic mission is the dignity and sacredness of human life as a reflection of our creator God, a dignity and sacredness that begins at conception, a consistent teaching of the Catholic Church for two thousand years.  It’s the very basis of our teachings on social justice; without that acknowledgment of dignity granted by God, social justice becomes a hobby rather than a calling, and humanity is reduced to utilitarianism.  Why bother spending public and private money on the poor and infirm if they could have been discarded with no consequences at the earliest stages of their lives?

However, while Republicans and conservatives embrace the pro-life part of the equation, they tend to run away from the social-justice mission that must necessarily follow from that pro-life embrace.  In fact, the very term social justice inevitably creates hostility, in part because some confuse it with liberation theology, a philosophy that the Catholic Church has rejected, including our present Pope Benedict XVI, who decried much of it as a “Marxist myth” while still Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger.  Social justice is nothing more or less than the mission to which Jesus Christ called his church — the care of the poor, the infirm, the imprisoned, and the hopeless.  It is a call to Christians of all denominations to ensure that we share our blessings with those less fortunate and find ways to lift them out of their misery, as brothers and sisters under God, conceived in the same dignity and sacredness as were we all.

There is a great deal of debate on how best to achieve these goals, and Catholics are given no set plan as doctrine on these matters.  Each of us has a personal call to participate in the mission, as does the Church itself.  That is why we (and our brothers and sisters in other Christian denominations and other faiths) open hospitals, charities, and schools in service to our mission and to the world.  Incidentally, that’s why the HHS mandate is so absurd in its arrogance and ignorance; these are not just businesses, but an expression of our core religious practice and mission.  The center of our religious practice is the Liturgy and Eucharist, but our mission is outside of the four walls of the church, not within it.

However, even while we do our best on a personal and institutional level within the church, our community, state, and nation have an impact on the scope and depth of the societal and human ills we hope to alleviate.   Some Catholics feel that significant involvement of representative government represents the best and most direct way to achieve our mission, and support the political party that more closely aligns itself with that philosophy and agenda — Democrats.  Others feel that the mission is best directed at a personal and institutional level and oppose significant government involvement as wasteful, impractical, and counterproductive, and those Catholics are more likely to be Republicans.

As such, these fellow Catholic liberals (many of whom do oppose abortion) do not deserve our scorn or a condescending attitude; they come to these positions honestly and faithfully.  We may disagree on the best approach to the mission at hand, but we are at least united on the mission itself.

In fact, try reading the position papers at the USCCB website to see how some liberal Catholics might rightly ask how Catholics can be conservatives, especially on immigration policyhealth care, the death penalty, economic justice and safety-net spending, and so on.  However, a thorough reading of these positions offers lessons to Catholics across the political spectrum.  The bishops do not make these doctrinal positions, but instead offer their considered (and very nuanced) approach to these issues that relate to the church’s social-justice mission, with plenty of acknowledgment of well-intentioned disagreement on how best to achieve success in these and many other areas.  That is why bishops and pastors wisely treat these subjects with a great deal of respect for diversity of opinion in the parishes themselves, and rarely if ever lecture on these positions from the pulpit or insinuate that disagreement separates parishioners from the church or Eucharist.

Catholic conservatives sometimes feel as though we are sometimes scorned for our approach, though, because Republicans and conservatives rarely offer a coherent philosophy on how best to deal with the very real social problems in our communities, other than insisting that more government won’t solve them.  I was glad to see Paul Ryan discussing subsidiarity in his defense of his budget proposal, as many conservative Catholics see the overwhelming entitlement growth as a threat to personal and institutional action — perhaps less so than the HHS mandate, but the mandate itself springs from that accumulation of power to entitlement-program bureaucracies that conservatives within and outside of the faith see as dangerous.  Few conservatives in American politics offer that kind of coherent approach, though, and to Catholics who rightly see the pain and suffering of the poor and infirm as a priority, that makes the Democratic Party look legitimately like a better option.

Right now, the excesses of the Obama administration on the HHS mandate, abortion, and perhaps even gay marriage make it less urgent for conservatives to address these shortcomings.  However, if Republicans and conservatives want to win more converts from Catholic ranks, they will have to find ways to address the social-justice priorities of these voters without spitting at the term or ignoring it altogether.  And perhaps there is some value in having committed Catholics, firm in their opposition to abortion, remain within the Democratic Party to pull that organization away from the culture of death and back to its historical position as a representative of traditional working-class values.  That would be an honorable mission indeed for Christians of all denominations, if perhaps a nearly impossible one, at least in the present time.  In the meantime, we Catholics across the political spectrum need to acknowledge and respect the viewpoints of our fellow parishioners as we try to fulfill our mission in the best way we see to succeed.

In the end, the mission is the focus, at least in terms of our faith. To the extent politics enters into it, it should remain subsidiary to the faith and the fellowship, not the other way around.

Update: How important is the Catholic vote?  Salena followed up yesterday:

In every modern presidential election, the Catholic voting bloc has been a harbinger of the popular vote, said Catherine Wilson, a Villanova University political scientist who specializes in religious voters.

“They are the ultimate swing vote. Where they go, so goes the election,” she said.

Though many Catholics decried Obama’s support of abortion and embryonic stem cell research in 2008, he won 54 percent among Catholic voters against Republican Sen. John McCain of Arizona.

Update II: Dustin Siggins demonstrates the virtues of respectful engagement in this must-read Green Room piece.

Update III: Cleaned up a couple of grammatical issues.

Update IV: Lisa Graas advises to put not your trust in princes and parties.


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msdnc–just a 30 second report on the verdict….go straight back to their talking points on the gop’s side show…

cmsinaz on May 13, 2013 at 3:21 PM

C/b executed – judge

Schadenfreude on May 13, 2013 at 3:21 PM

Troll-free thread ??? LOL.

pambi on May 13, 2013 at 3:21 PM

Do we dare question the make up of the jury?
jawkneemusic on May 13, 2013 at 3:03 PM

I believe it was 8 men, 4 women, although I don’t think that’s what you’re asking.

lonestar1 on May 13, 2013 at 3:21 PM

You were saying?

Armin Tamzarian on May 13, 2013 at 3:15 PM

It was something along the lines that you’re still a despicable piece of crap. Something like that.

Midas on May 13, 2013 at 3:22 PM

pambi on May 13, 2013 at 3:21 PM

Armin did a drive-by.

kingsjester on May 13, 2013 at 3:22 PM

The death of the woman is manslaughter.

workingclass artist on May 13, 2013 at 3:22 PM

Thankful that they reached the only conclusion that any reasonable person would.

cat_owner on May 13, 2013 at 3:22 PM

I was responding to a different poster up thread who said it was an all woman jury. Thanks for pointing out the facts.

cptacek on May 13, 2013 at 3:19 PM

Sorry. I hadn’t read back far enough. YW, anyway, though. ;-)

totherightofthem on May 13, 2013 at 3:22 PM

The swine was shocked.

Schadenfreude on May 13, 2013 at 3:22 PM

HUMPBOT!

SheVee on May 13, 2013 at 3:23 PM

Reportedly, Gosnell completely shocked by this … entire defense table, too.

AWWW, so sorry.

pambi on May 13, 2013 at 3:23 PM

Still, not enough justice for the thousands of lives Gosnell snuffed out that weren’t directly considered in this case.

I hope every one of those dead children haunt that punk in his dreams every night, that he wakes up screaming in terror only to see 7 other inmates creeping into his cell for some nighttime entertainment.

Bishop on May 13, 2013 at 3:23 PM

Sounds like 4th baby verdict is guilty of manslaugter instead of 1st degree.

WisRich on May 13, 2013 at 3:23 PM

pambi on May 13, 2013 at 3:23 PM

Not a shocked as those babies were.

Justice.

kingsjester on May 13, 2013 at 3:23 PM

Anything legal Armin would support…slavery …you name it.

CW on May 13, 2013 at 3:24 PM

Bye bye. Please take the rest of this site’s social “conservative” moron brigade with you back to RedState or whatever sh*thole you guys hang out at now.

Armin Tamzarian on May 13, 2013 at 1:55 PM

Awwww. Word is the R’s have blocked Obama’s EPA nominee,
Gina McCarthy..you can go lick her azz crack
to Console her…..mkay?

ToddPA on May 13, 2013 at 2:19 PM

Just for you Armin

ToddPA on May 13, 2013 at 3:24 PM

Bring on the death penalty.

itsacookbook on May 13, 2013 at 3:24 PM

Wow. Some faith in humanity restored.

El_Terrible on May 13, 2013 at 3:19 PM

I know. This does restore some of it. Big win for the pro-lifers.

Illinidiva on May 13, 2013 at 3:24 PM

Bishop on May 13, 2013 at 3:23 PM

This…plus, may thuja, Armin, Obama and their supporters on HA never be free from this.

Schadenfreude on May 13, 2013 at 3:24 PM

“This is an outrage” – George Tiller, in Hell.

sentinelrules on May 13, 2013 at 3:25 PM

Reportedly, Gosnell completely shocked by this … entire defense table, too.

AWWW, so sorry.

pambi on May 13, 2013 at 3:23 PM

Much of his life was dedicated to killing babies. A few more ? Meh.

CW on May 13, 2013 at 3:25 PM

The Horror

jake-the-goose on May 13, 2013 at 3:25 PM

Sounds like 4th baby verdict is guilty of manslaugter instead of 1st degree.

WisRich on May 13, 2013 at 3:23 PM

Don’t quote me on this. There reading all the verdicts and I might be getting them mixed up with other charges.

WisRich on May 13, 2013 at 3:25 PM

I like how a major headline post shan’t possibly displace Captain Ed’s show post that maybe 5 people will post in because it has a picture of a pretty lady on it.

That aside, I hope the monster enjoys the ass-raping and eventual murder that will befall him. Too bad the verdict will be quashed by the media before it can possibly turn into a discussion of whether abortion is murder.

MadisonConservative on May 13, 2013 at 3:25 PM

Heard it reported on FNC that the testimony was that some of the Gosnell staff were playing with one of the babies before it was “aborted.”

Just unbelievable that anyone is defending this kind of behavior.

AZCoyote on May 13, 2013 at 3:25 PM

thuja hardest hit

John the Libertarian on May 13, 2013 at 3:25 PM

Good thing the Jury didn’t act like the MSM on this case!

LurkerDood on May 13, 2013 at 3:25 PM

Good for Philadelphia jury for trying to seek justice on this monster.

workingclass artist on May 13, 2013 at 3:25 PM

Does Pennsylvania have a death penalty?

sentinelrules on May 13, 2013 at 3:26 PM

Minehart has been careful and hardly denied the defense anything. I doubt there’ any reversible error. Hope those hundreds of victims can now rest in peace.

Wethal on May 13, 2013 at 3:26 PM

HUMPBOT!

SheVee on May 13, 2013 at 3:23 PM

I’m very happy about the verdict but I don’t really think we should be rolling out the humpbot here. The whole case is too ghastly for something like that.

Doomberg on May 13, 2013 at 3:26 PM

I’m guessing an appeal could be based on incompetent defense council. The defense rested without calling a witness.

farsighted on May 13, 2013 at 3:26 PM

some of the Gosnell staff were playing with one of the babies before it was “aborted.”

AZCoyote on May 13, 2013 at 3:25 PM

Why not? The baby was less than a puppy.
/

CW on May 13, 2013 at 3:26 PM

Will the entire MSNBC staff wear black on this day of mourning?

You and I know the entire jury will be slandered by that network as “arch-conservative Neanderthals who all want women to be executed in the public square in front of a cross.”

Myron Falwell on May 13, 2013 at 3:26 PM

Thuja’s hero done.

CW on May 13, 2013 at 3:27 PM

This…plus, may thuja, Armin, Obama and their supporters on HA never be free from this.

Schadenfreude on May 13, 2013 at 3:24 PM

Could you please name these supporters that you keep mentioning? I didn’t realize I had a fan club at Hot Air.

Armin Tamzarian on May 13, 2013 at 3:27 PM

The swine was shocked.

Schadenfreude on May 13, 2013 at 3:22 PM

Too bad it wasn’t via “Old Sparky”.

justltl on May 13, 2013 at 3:27 PM

It’ll be curious if this continues to get buried in the press or if it’ll suddenly make headlines as a travesty of civil rights…

I’m thinking the former…

Skywise on May 13, 2013 at 3:27 PM

Don’t quote me on this. There reading all the verdicts and I might be getting them mixed up with other charges.

From what Fox just said, the adult woman was manslaughter instead of 3rd degree murder. Haven’t heard anything about lesser charges for Baby E.

Alia on May 13, 2013 at 3:27 PM

Justice is served…

tyketto on May 13, 2013 at 3:28 PM

Will the entire MSNBC staff wear black on this day of mourning?

Myron Falwell on May 13, 2013 at 3:26 PM

How many dead African Americans and females you have to wonder…..

those pukes will turn a blind eye to anything as long as liberals win.

CW on May 13, 2013 at 3:28 PM

Gosnell was shocked? I’m starting to think he’s a senile old bastard.

Cindy Munford on May 13, 2013 at 3:28 PM

Justice is served…

tyketto on May 13, 2013 at 3:28 PM

Perhaps not quite yet…

Midas on May 13, 2013 at 3:29 PM

Will the entire MSNBC staff wear black on this day of mourning?

Myron Falwell on May 13, 2013 at 3:26 PM

This verdict will get a total of 15 seconds of coverage on MSNBC.

WisRich on May 13, 2013 at 3:29 PM

Armin Tamzarian on May 13, 2013 at 3:27 PM

You don’t. He was listing the other followers of Moloch, besides you.

kingsjester on May 13, 2013 at 3:29 PM

Yes we have the death penalty here. Only other option for first degree is life with NO parole.

Wethal on May 13, 2013 at 3:29 PM

Does Pennsylvania have a death penalty?

sentinelrules on May 13, 2013 at 3:26 PM

Yes and he is death eligible for the 3 first degree murder counts. Sentencing phase will likely start in a week.

Alia on May 13, 2013 at 3:29 PM

Does Pennsylvania have a death penalty?

sentinelrules on May 13, 2013 at 3:26 PM

Yes. but it hasn’t been used in about 15 years.

Dreadnought on May 13, 2013 at 3:29 PM

I’m guessing an appeal could be based on incompetent defense council. The defense rested without calling a witness.

farsighted on May 13, 2013 at 3:26 PM

There has been speculation that was indeed their strategy.

changer1701 on May 13, 2013 at 3:29 PM

Gosnell looked shocked and bewildered when convicted of multiple counts of first degree murder

Suck it Kermit.

Suck it dooowwwnnnnn.

Spade on May 13, 2013 at 3:29 PM

Could you please name these supporters that you keep mentioning? I didn’t realize I had a fan club at Hot Air.

Armin Tamzarian on May 13, 2013 at 3:27 PM

They support thuja, and by implication you too. You and thuja/Obama are the same on topic. You support murder and infanticide.

Schadenfreude on May 13, 2013 at 3:30 PM

Gosnell was shocked? I’m starting to think he’s a senile old bastard.

Cindy Munford on May 13, 2013 at 3:28 PM

Nah, he’s an abortion doctor.

When you create death for so long you think you’re God and without fault.

sentinelrules on May 13, 2013 at 3:30 PM

Thuja’s hero done.

CW on May 13, 2013 at 3:27 PM

I can’t think of a sicker, more twisted person on this website.

John the Libertarian on May 13, 2013 at 3:30 PM

“Just breaking

Kermit Gosnell Found Guilty on Three First-Degree Murder Charges:

The jury in the murder trial of abortion practitioner Kermit Gosnell returned a verdict and found him guilty on three of the four first-degree murder charges he faced.

Phila abortionist Kermit #Gosnell guilty 1st degree murder in 3 of 4 babies.

— jdmullane (@jdmullane) May 13, 2013

Courtroom fell silent as #Gosnell found guilty of murdering babies A, C and D. He faces death in each case.

— jdmullane (@jdmullane) May 13, 2013…”

http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/05/gosnell-found-guilty-on-three-counts-of-murder/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+LegalInsurrection+%28Le%C2%B7gal+In%C2%B7sur%C2%B7rec%C2%B7tion%29&utm_content=Google+Reader

workingclass artist on May 13, 2013 at 3:30 PM

Gosnell was shocked? I’m starting to think he’s a senile old bastard.

Cindy Munford on May 13, 2013 at 3:28 PM

I was shocked too.

I’m cynical enough to think that there was a good chance he’d be allowed to walk to “protect abortion rights.” All you need is one person on the jury to decide that sometimes sacrifices must be made for The Cause (even if that sacrifice is to allow a serial murderer to walk free).

Doomberg on May 13, 2013 at 3:30 PM

Does Pennsylvania have a death penalty?

sentinelrules on May 13, 2013 at 3:26 PM

Yes. But he’s 72, so he’ll most likely die of natural causes before death penalty appeals are exhausted. Just glad we’ve established the principle.

rbj on May 13, 2013 at 3:31 PM

Regardless of what judgement this miserable excuse for a human being will get in this life, he’s going to face a much more hard judgment in the next when he dies.

That being said, I’m glad this judgment against murdering the defenseless came about!

Serial Killer – 0
Right for the unborn – 100

Yes, Praise God!!!

avagreen on May 13, 2013 at 3:31 PM

I had a fan club at Hot Air.

Armin Tamzarian on May 13, 2013 at 3:27 PM

Of course that was never said. take your straw elsewhere you pos.

Don’t you have someone to go preach to about how slavery was all fine and good because it was legal and we shouldn’t interrupt such things?

Don’t answer. Just f yourself.

CW on May 13, 2013 at 3:31 PM

Yeah, but those murders happened a long time ago. What, at this point, does it matter?

tdarrington on May 13, 2013 at 3:31 PM

Yeah, but those murders happened a long time ago. What, at this point, does it matter?

tdarrington on May 13, 2013 at 3:31 PM

8 months statute.

CW on May 13, 2013 at 3:31 PM

Don’t roll out the humpbot… roll out the death row gurney.

viking01 on May 13, 2013 at 3:32 PM

I’m guessing an appeal could be based on incompetent defense council. The defense rested without calling a witness.

farsighted on May 13, 2013 at 3:26 PM

RWM answered that two weeks ago. I forget the reasons she gave, but it seems unlikely.

Liam on May 13, 2013 at 3:32 PM

I’m guessing an appeal could be based on incompetent defense council. The defense rested without calling a witness.

farsighted on May 13, 2013 at 3:26 PM

There has been speculation that was indeed their strategy.

changer1701 on May 13, 2013 at 3:29 PM

It’s a common strategy for the defense to simply rest after the prosecution presents its case. the defense doesn’t have to prove anything it merely has to poke holes in the prosecution’s case.

So, the fact that the defense did not put on an affirmative case is not alone grounds for overturning a verdict on the basis of ineffective assistance of counsel.

Monkeytoe on May 13, 2013 at 3:32 PM

Gosnell was shocked? I’m starting to think he’s a senile old bastard.

Cindy Munford on May 13, 2013 at 3:28 PM

If he was extremely shocked, maybe it is because what he was doing wasn’t any different than abortion providers in the rest of the country. Maybe he will turn on the rest of the abortion industry now that he has been found guilty. One can hope…

weaselyone on May 13, 2013 at 3:32 PM

They support thuja, and by implication you too. You and thuja/Obama are the same on topic. You support murder and infanticide.

Schadenfreude on May 13, 2013 at 3:30 PM

Who are “they”? Names, please.

Armin Tamzarian on May 13, 2013 at 3:32 PM

He will never walk free again.

Too bad he’s that old, the butcher of the USA, condoned by the Obamas.

Schadenfreude on May 13, 2013 at 3:32 PM

I can’t think of a sicker, more twisted person on this website.

John the Libertarian on May 13, 2013 at 3:30 PM

Oh he’s a sick phuck but I doubt he’d support slavery like Armin would.

CW on May 13, 2013 at 3:33 PM

Who are “they”? Names, please.

Armin Tamzarian on May 13, 2013 at 3:32 PM

They know who they are. I’m free to do what I please.

Schadenfreude on May 13, 2013 at 3:33 PM

Who are “they”? Names, please.

Armin Tamzarian on May 13, 2013 at 3:32 PM

What do you want to do with them? Start a club?

philoquin on May 13, 2013 at 3:34 PM

I can’t think of a sicker, more twisted person on this website.

John the Libertarian on May 13, 2013 at 3:30 PM

On topic, mainly. It has company.

Schadenfreude on May 13, 2013 at 3:34 PM

It’s a common strategy for the defense to simply rest after the prosecution presents its case. the defense doesn’t have to prove anything it merely has to poke holes in the prosecution’s case.

So, the fact that the defense did not put on an affirmative case is not alone grounds for overturning a verdict on the basis of ineffective assistance of counsel.

Monkeytoe on May 13, 2013 at 3:32 PM

That’s not what Matlock did… ;)

changer1701 on May 13, 2013 at 3:35 PM

Gosnell was shocked? I’m starting to think he’s a senile old bastard.

Cindy Munford on May 13, 2013 at 3:28 PM

Gosnell, like Ogabe, is used to a lifetime of getting away with it.

viking01 on May 13, 2013 at 3:35 PM

I’m waiting for libfree to pop in and tell us all how another black man got railroaded in a courtroom.

Liam on May 13, 2013 at 3:35 PM

Who are “they”? Names, please.

Armin Tamzarian on May 13, 2013 at 3:32 PM

What do you want to do with them? Start a club?

philoquin on May 13, 2013 at 3:34 PM

…have them promoted, hand them bonuses.

Schadenfreude on May 13, 2013 at 3:35 PM

f he was extremely shocked, maybe it is because what he was doing wasn’t any different than abortion providers in the rest of the country. Maybe he will turn on the rest of the abortion industry now that he has been found guilty. One can hope…

weaselyone on May 13, 2013 at 3:32 PM

This. I’m guessing that things weren’t run too differently at Gosnell’s clinic than at any other abortion factory. He probably still doesn’t understand what it is that he did wrong.

And, there are plenty of other people who are confused as well. Some even post here.

Monkeytoe on May 13, 2013 at 3:36 PM

I see the DP and abotion in next year ‘s governors race. Dem Schwartz ran a PP clinic and won ‘t say if she referred women to Gosnell.

Wethal on May 13, 2013 at 3:36 PM

Doomberg on May 13, 2013 at 3:30 PM

I can understand you being shocked, we’ve been treated to all kinds of stupid in the last four and half years, but I can’t imagine being that totally sold on a jury outcome by a defendant. Especially considering the testimony that went on and his employees testifying against him.

Cindy Munford on May 13, 2013 at 3:37 PM

I am very happy for the verdict …

I am very sad for the millions of unborn life
that is/has been destroyed by abortion

I am pro life … I do not want the death penalty
I want him to spend the rest of his life in
prison w/o the possibility of parole

do you think the Governor will pardon him?

conservative tarheel on May 13, 2013 at 3:37 PM

Armin is struggling to dispel the rumor that he has no friends.

viking01 on May 13, 2013 at 3:37 PM

So, wrongfully convicted by an extreme ultra rightwing jury, or outlier who in no way represents the broader abortion provider community?

tdarrington on May 13, 2013 at 3:37 PM

The needle. Please.

a capella on May 13, 2013 at 3:19 PM

Scissors.

JusDreamin on May 13, 2013 at 3:38 PM

I’m saying this case forces prochoicers to consider the logic pathology allowing a just born infant to be protected by law vs nonprotection a few minutes rearlier in the womb. In this case, if a nonguilty verdict is reached, it will be based on whether those babies were proved to be born alive, not that infantcide is legal.

a capella on May 13, 2013 at 3:18 PM

Panic staff-meetings being held right now at abortion houses all over the country, including the Eric Holder family abortion clinic in Atlanta.

slickwillie2001 on May 13, 2013 at 3:38 PM

Who are “they”? Names, please.

Armin Tamzarian on May 13, 2013 at 3:32 PM

You sound like a 5th grader.

CW on May 13, 2013 at 3:38 PM

Update (Ed): This may seem redundant, but these charges would have allowed the jury to take a pass on 1st-degree murder convictions if so inclined:

The abortionist #Gosnell also guilty of infanticide in death of Baby A, and conspiracy in deaths of babies C and D.

— jdmullane (@jdmullane) May 13, 2013

The local NBC affiliate reports that sentencing will begin on July 15th. They will empanel a different jury to consider the death penalty for the murder charges.

Schadenfreude on May 13, 2013 at 3:38 PM

Pardon by Obama, the supporter of infanticide?

justltl on May 13, 2013 at 3:38 PM

This. I’m guessing that things weren’t run too differently at Gosnell’s clinic than at any other abortion factory.

Monkeytoe on May 13, 2013 at 3:36 PM

Most pro-lifers feel this way, and yet they’re still angry that the Gosnell case wasn’t given oodles of media attention. Basically, socons are angry that an (in their opinion) un-exceptional case wasn’t treated exceptionally in the media. Does that make them dishonest or stupid or both?

Armin Tamzarian on May 13, 2013 at 3:40 PM

do you think the Governor will pardon him?

conservative tarheel on May 13, 2013 at 3:37 PM

The prisoners won’t.

Schadenfreude on May 13, 2013 at 3:40 PM

Armin Tamzarian on May 13, 2013 at 3:27 PM

Anyone who has discourse with any of you is now a supporter, even when they disagree. It’s good to be god.

Cindy Munford on May 13, 2013 at 3:40 PM

All he did was what Obama advocated.

PackerBronco on May 13, 2013 at 3:40 PM

His smiles will subside when he begs the new jury to let him live.

How will the media cover all of it now, derelicts?

Schadenfreude on May 13, 2013 at 3:40 PM

Armin Tamzarian on May 13, 2013 at 3:40 PM

You’re still here? That drain isn’t going to expel those body parts by itself.

cptacek on May 13, 2013 at 3:40 PM

That’s not what Matlock did… ;)

changer1701 on May 13, 2013 at 3:35 PM

Yeah, but when you have the luxury of being a criminal defense attorney whose clients are all actually innocent of the charges against them (like Matlock’s clients), you can put on a good case showing who really committed the murder.

You have to love that Matlock lived in a jurisdiction where the police / D.A. were so bad that every single one of the people they put on trial for murder were falsely accused – 30 or so per year. They really needed better police there.

Monkeytoe on May 13, 2013 at 3:41 PM

Does that make them dishonest or stupid or both?

Armin Tamzarian on May 13, 2013 at 3:40 PM

No, but it exposes you as desperately stupid, which is beyond schadenfreudig.

Schadenfreude on May 13, 2013 at 3:41 PM

You sound like a 5th grader.

CW on May 13, 2013 at 3:38 PM

You’d know. If your posts are any indication, the 5th grade was your final year of school.

Armin Tamzarian on May 13, 2013 at 3:41 PM

Pardon by Obama, the supporter of infanticide?

justltl on May 13, 2013 at 3:38 PM

these are state charges …. unless the Gov. pardons him
(his age .. his medical condition .. etc )

Obama will not be able to legally do anything (Yeah I know
when did Legally ever stop him)

conservative tarheel on May 13, 2013 at 3:42 PM

Gosnell was shocked? I’m starting to think he’s a senile old bastard.
Cindy Munford on May 13, 2013 at 3:28 PM

I checked again , and again to, see who wrote thast :D

burrata on May 13, 2013 at 3:43 PM

You know, I had five (yes, five) miscarriages before I had my son and I have always felt guilty thinking my body killed my babies. But this man, as a personification of evil, helped me to realize what really kills babies.

annie in tx on May 13, 2013 at 3:43 PM

Some of you are horrific at sarc, plus lying about it too. The HA vault knows.

Schadenfreude on May 13, 2013 at 3:43 PM

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