Second video shows Planned Parenthood clinic advising on how to get a sex-selective abortion; Update: WH opposes sex-selective abortion ban bill

posted at 11:21 am on May 31, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

Earlier this week, Planned Parenthood responded to an undercover video showing a staffer in its Austin, Texas clinic providing assistance for a sex-selective abortion by firing the staffer, requiring retraining for the entire clinic, and insisting that they do not support gender-based abortions.  Looks like they’ll need to break out the pink slips again.  Live Action released another undercover video this morning that shows a New York City clinic not only advising on how to determine the gender of a pregnancy, but the best way to make the determination in time to get an abortion — complete with referral to a practitioner to assist in the service:

Despite PP’s protestations this week, the staffer in the Margaret Sanger clinic in New York City says, “I can tell  you that, you know, here at Planned Parenthood we believe that it’s not up to us to decide what is a good or bad reason for somebody to decide to terminate a pregnancy.”  The video does include PP’s insistence that “Gender bias is contrary to everything our organization works for … Planned Parenthood condemns sex selection motivated by gender bias.”  Looks like the staffers haven’t gotten that memo from corporate yet, huh?

Let’s muse on Planned Parenthood’s statement just a bit, though.  They condemn “sex selection motivated by gender bias.”  On what other basis would “sex selection” take place other than gender bias?  Why would two girls be so much less desirable than a boy and a girl that one has to take the drastic step of an abortion unless one is applying a gender bias?  What other possible explanation could there be?  And let’s face it — while the selection cuts both ways on occasion, the cultural biases in play would tend to greatly disfavor girls rather than boys in this equation, which is what we see worldwide when abortion is used in sex selection.

I’d guess that Planned Parenthood will stop short of firing another staffer, especially since Live Action hints that they have a few more of these videos on the way.

Update: I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised by this, especially from a President that once opposed a version of the Born Alive Infant Protection Act in Illinois:

The White House got back to me this evening to say the president opposes the bill.

White House deputy press secretary Jamie Smith says in a statement: “The Administration opposes gender discrimination in all forms, but the end result of this legislation would be to subject doctors to criminal prosecution if they fail to determine the motivations behind a very personal and private decision.   The government should not intrude in medical decisions or private family matters in this way.”

LifeNews explains the vote taking place today in the House on the Prenatal Nondiscrimination Act (PRENDA):

The bill would make it a federal offense to knowingly do any one of the following four things: (1) perform an abortion, at any time in pregnancy, “knowing that such abortion is sought based on the sex or gender of the child”; (2) use “force or threat of force. . . for the purpose of coercing a sex-selection abortion”; (3) solicit or accept funds to perform a sex-selection abortion; or (4) transport a woman into the U.S. or across state lines for this purpose. However, “A woman upon whom a sex-selection abortion is performed may not be prosecuted or held civilly liable for any violation . . .”

The bill also specifically states, “Nothing in this Act shall be construed to require that a healthcare provider has an affirmative duty to inquire as to the motivation for the abortion, absent the healthcare provider having knowledge or information that the abortion is being sought based on the sex or gender of the child.”

Unbelievable.  This is the same administration that’s spent the last few months crying about a “war on women,” right?  Well, here’s a fight in which females are taking real casualties, and … nothing.


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libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 12:01 PM

What does any of that have to do with the issue at hand? Should we assume that you support gender-selective abortions then?

Last available numbers show that “only” about 600 children a year are killed by their own families in the US. Using leftist “logic” (a) that’s hardly a number to be concerned about and (b) the government should not intrude in private family matters.

I bet you support “hate crimes” legislation.

mankai on May 31, 2012 at 12:14 PM

Yes, just a few bad apples murdering an insignificant few hundred or maybe dozen girls, for the sin of being female.

I don’t support sex selective abortion (even though I don’t consider the act murder) the people who pursue it are horrible people who should be condemned. But I’m not sure what Live Action expects PP to do in states where there is no law against pursuing a sex selective abortion? Live Action should release every video they recorded in a PP clinic this past year. They won’t, of course, because that may get in the way of their agenda which is to end all legalized abortion. Unless they release all the videos, or at least release how many offices they entered, and percentages on the kinds of responses they got, they can’t claim this is something endemic to Planned Parenthood.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 12:15 PM

How many women seeking an abortion would admit to gender selection in the first place? If you can abort for any reason, there’s zero need for specifics.

nico on May 31, 2012 at 11:59 AM

Most women probably would not admit it, but for those women who feel the need to share, it would be very easy for the doctor to avoid liability (and the law specifically exempts the woman herself from liability for having a gender-based abortion).

The sign would just be a not-so-subtle reminder to the gabby types to keep their mouths shut so that the doctor does not expose himself to liability. Before the abortion, the doctor would also have each patient sign a form stating: “Under penalty of perjury, I affirm that I am not seeking this abortion for purposes of gender selection.” See how easy it is? The doctor can now say he has not knowingly performed an abortion for sex selection purposes. Now the pregnant lady who doesn’t want a girl baby gets her abortion, and everybody gets to say they have fully complied with the law.

AZCoyote on May 31, 2012 at 12:15 PM

I don’t support sex selective abortion (even though I don’t consider the act murder) the people who pursue it are horrible people who should be condemned. But I’m not sure what Live Action expects PP to do in states where there is no law against pursuing a sex selective abortion? Live Action should release every video they recorded in a PP clinic this past year. They won’t, of course, because that may get in the way of their agenda which is to end all legalized abortion. Unless they release all the videos, or at least release how many offices they entered, and percentages on the kinds of responses they got, they can’t claim this is something endemic to Planned Parenthood.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 12:15 PM

LOL– This from the libtard that used ONE Christian Pastor to show gay hatred. Awww what’s a matter– Your libiot’s tactics being used against you?

melle1228 on May 31, 2012 at 12:18 PM

“The Administration opposes gender discrimination in all forms

So by opposing gender discrimination they freely admit that the unborn child is a person so by aborting it would be murder??????

Pomai on May 31, 2012 at 12:18 PM

It’s a war on women to stop killing the young ones or something.

Akzed on May 31, 2012 at 12:18 PM

How you could snuff out a life and laugh about it, I’ll never know.

blatantblue on May 31, 2012 at 12:18 PM

This is another manufactured outrage involving a few rare isolated incidents that do not accord with Planned Parenthood’s policies.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 12:01 PM

Isolated to how many of the 57 states? So far there’s New York and Texas.

kringeesmom on May 31, 2012 at 12:19 PM

LOL– This from the libtard that used ONE Christian Pastor to show gay hatred. Awww what’s a matter– Your libiot’s tactics being used against you?

melle1228 on May 31, 2012 at 12:18 PM

First of all, the link had multiple instances of pastors spewing anti-gay hatred just in the month of May alone. Second of all, there’s also the tens of thousands of reported incidences of anti-gay violence that occur in this country every year. That rhetoric is clearly producing actual, verifiable data. Until Live Action produces an actual study, there’s no way to claim this practice is endemic to PP.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 12:21 PM

As far as this battle, in the democrats war on women is concerned, it seems the women involved in providing abortions and the women seeking the abortions because the child is a girl are the most deadly to future women.

DVPTexFla on May 31, 2012 at 12:23 PM

War on Women .

Dr Evil on May 31, 2012 at 12:25 PM

This is another manufactured outrage involving a few rare isolated incidents that do not accord with Planned Parenthood’s policies.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 12:01 PM

Ah, liberals. There’s just nothing about abortion that can shock them into limiting it in any way.

Red Cloud on May 31, 2012 at 12:25 PM

“The government should not intrude in medical decisions or private family matters in this way.”

But, the ‘free abortion’ clause in Obamacare is ok. Seems like a ‘private family matter’ to me…

socalcon on May 31, 2012 at 12:28 PM

blatantblue on May 31, 2012 at 12:18 PM

I think the only way possible is to convince yourself that it isn’t a human.

Cindy Munford on May 31, 2012 at 12:28 PM

I don’t support sex selective abortion (even though I don’t consider the act murder) the people who pursue it are horrible people who should be condemned.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 12:15 PM

I don’t understand this comment. Abortion isn’t murder, but people who do it because of gender bias are horrible and should be condemned? Why should they be condemned? According to you it’s not like they murdered someone. You have no problem with abortion but only the reasons people do it? You need to perform a lengthy examination of conscience.

Goldenavatar on May 31, 2012 at 12:28 PM

First of all, the link had multiple instances of pastors spewing anti-gay hatred just in the month of May alone. Second of all, there’s also the tens of thousands of reported incidences of anti-gay violence that occur in this country every year. That rhetoric is clearly producing actual, verifiable data. Until Live Action produces an actual study, there’s no way to claim this practice is endemic to PP.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 12:21 PM

Bull. None of it amounts to anything compared to what goes on in the death camps of Murder Incorporated (aka Planned Parenthood).

NoDonkey on May 31, 2012 at 12:29 PM

Evil.

SouthernGent on May 31, 2012 at 12:29 PM

First of all, the link had multiple instances of pastors spewing anti-gay hatred just in the month of May alone. Second of all, there’s also the tens of thousands of reported incidences of anti-gay violence that occur in this country every year. That rhetoric is clearly producing actual, verifiable data. Until Live Action produces an actual study, there’s no way to claim this practice is endemic to PP.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 12:21 PM

First of all, Live action has multiple instances of bad behavior by PP.. Second of all, there are MILLIONS of reported abortions each year. That corruption is clearly producing actual, verifiable data.

I really don’t get liberals- you only care about selective victim groups if they agree with you. You only care about women UNLESS they are dead girl babies or women who have been damaged because they had an abortion. And you certainly don’t care about Conservative gays like Grennell who said the majority of the hate came from the “tolerant’ left.

melle1228 on May 31, 2012 at 12:30 PM

When did we become China?

gophergirl on May 31, 2012 at 11:30 AM

…some day there will hardly be any women there…and it will be the first geh nation!
That there is population control!

KOOLAID2 on May 31, 2012 at 12:30 PM

First of all, the link had multiple instances of pastors spewing anti-gay hatred just in the month of May alone. Second of all, there’s also the tens of thousands of reported incidences of anti-gay violence that occur in this country every year.

How many hundreds of thousands of abortions annually facilitated by PP?

socalcon on May 31, 2012 at 12:30 PM

First of all, the link had multiple instances of pastors spewing anti-gay hatred just in the month of May alone. Second of all, there’s also the tens of thousands of reported incidences of anti-gay violence that occur in this country every year. That rhetoric is clearly producing actual, verifiable data. Until Live Action produces an actual study, there’s no way to claim this practice is endemic to PP.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 12:21 PM

So you have somehow made the connection that Pastors’ rhetoric has caused all these instances of anti-gay violence. Nice reach.

Fail.

All this concern on the left for anti-gay violence and none for the anti-baby violence at PP.

goflyers on May 31, 2012 at 12:31 PM

I think the only way possible is to convince yourself that it isn’t a human.

Cindy Munford on May 31, 2012 at 12:28 PM

Someone close to me is getting one today, and it’s making me sick.

blatantblue on May 31, 2012 at 12:31 PM

I think I posted a couple of hours ago that when they have one they probably have more. They would never come out with just one, drip, drip, drip. Guess what I was right!
I wonder what excuse they will use this time – a new employee, just here 3 weeks, wasn’t trained, etc., etc.
Talk about war on females, let’s just kill them all!

Bambi on May 31, 2012 at 12:33 PM

How many hundreds of thousands of abortions annually facilitated by PP?

socalcon on May 31, 2012 at 12:30 PM

Not sure, but we do know that 91.4% of them occur before the 13th week.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 12:33 PM

First of all, Live action has multiple instances of bad behavior by PP.. Second of all, there are MILLIONS of reported abortions each year. That corruption is clearly producing actual, verifiable data.

91.4% of abortions are performed before the 13th week. I’ll just have to keep posting it until you all stop acting as if the total number of abortions has any bearing on the manufactured non-issue of “sex selective abortion” in the U.S.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 12:34 PM

Child sacrifice, the baptism of blood into becoming a liberal.

tom daschle concerned on May 31, 2012 at 12:34 PM

I hope Romney takes the fight to Obama on this. And while he’s at it, bring up the Born Alive Infant Protection Act. Why the GOP isn’t pushing this 24/7 is beyond me. McCain waited til the 3rd debate to mention it and Newt harped on it at what must’ve been the 32nd GOP debate in the primary.

Obama is the most extreme pro-abortion politician I think I’ve ever seen. This election is about the economy first and foremost, but informing the electorate about his extremist(and frankly subhuman) views on abortion will put a serious dent in the “nice guy” image he’s cultivated.

Doughboy on May 31, 2012 at 11:25 AM

It’s doubtful that we’re going to see the GOP bring most of this up. For instance, where’s the outrage about F&F. The only one who had the stones to bring the fight decided not to run.

This is what we are left with – the status quo. The decision to make is whether we want to extend our fight time with the status quo or risk what a second, unencumbered Obama term brings.

And just to get ahead of the myopic, idiot RP supporters – there’s a lot more this election than just economics and Obamacare/Romneycare.

kim roy on May 31, 2012 at 12:35 PM

Why are we talking about abortion now that contraception is free? Isn’t this program designed to eliminate that dreaded “preexisting condition” called child birth? The liberals want everything and anything they can get regardless of personal responsibility.

djaymick on May 31, 2012 at 12:35 PM

This is from last night’s Special Report. The 3:38 point is the gold.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC4NkqwglyY

Cindy Munford on May 31, 2012 at 12:37 PM

The DIM-ocratic Party’s war on women continues… there are REAL CASUALTIES now…

Obama lied, baby girl fetuses died…

Khun Joe on May 31, 2012 at 12:38 PM

They condemn “sex selection motivated by gender bias.” On what other basis would “sex selection” take place other than gender bias?

I think they say that the woman in this video was not choosing sex selection because of gender bias. They would say that she is choosing sex selection because she wants a boy for this particular pregnancy.

Gender bias would mean “I want to abort this baby because it is a girl and I am biased against girls generally. The “patient” in this video is not saying she is biased against girls generally, only that she wanted this particular pregnancy to be a girl, because she already had one girl and wanted a son.

It is still monstrous, of course. But that is the reason for their peculiar construction in the way they said they condemn “sex selection motivated by gender bias.”

Now that I have crawled into PP’s sick collective head, I have to go take a shower!

Haiku Guy on May 31, 2012 at 12:38 PM

The blood of the innocent is on those that support this genocide. May the cries and screams of the millions put to death at the altar of convenience haunt them until they have that meeting with the Creator and He asks: Why? May God have mercy on the woman that have had abortions because they were lied to and taken advantage of.

crosshugger on May 31, 2012 at 12:40 PM

blatantblue on May 31, 2012 at 12:31 PM

I’m sorry to hear that, the domino effect of bad decisions, the best you can hope for is that isn’t so easy that she continues on the same path.

Cindy Munford on May 31, 2012 at 12:40 PM

I don’t understand this comment. Abortion isn’t murder, but people who do it because of gender bias are horrible and should be condemned? Why should they be condemned? According to you it’s not like they murdered someone. You have no problem with abortion but only the reasons people do it? You need to perform a lengthy examination of conscience.

Goldenavatar on May 31, 2012 at 12:28 PM

Well, for one thing I don’t support abortions out of the first trimester unless they are to save the mother’s life. Once particular disorders and diseases are found it is wrong to end a pregnancy for that reason. In the future this could lead to not only sex selective abortions, but aborting potentially gay or lesbian people. I could see certain black families aborting kids who were going to have a darker phenotype (if that was ever testable). I believe abortion as a means of birth control is acceptable in the first trimester, not as a means of producing some creepy idealized society where all difference is snuffed out. Again, life of the mother of course takes precedence and a threat there should allow for abortion after 13 weeks.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 12:41 PM

91.4% of abortions are performed before the 13th week. I’ll just have to keep posting it until you all stop acting as if the total number of abortions has any bearing on the manufactured non-issue of “sex selective abortion” in the U.S.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 12:34 PM

Oh, come now. You’re just concerned that any limitation on abortion whatsoever, even something that’s so obviously morally reasonable to, oh, I don’t know, ANYONE, is opening the door to the entire practice being morally reprehensible. Since it is and all.

Your own faux displeasure with sex-selective abortion notwithstanding, natch.

Red Cloud on May 31, 2012 at 12:41 PM

I’m sorry to hear that, the domino effect of bad decisions, the best you can hope for is that isn’t so easy that she continues on the same path.

Cindy Munford on May 31, 2012 at 12:40 PM

Definitely reconsidering the friendship.

I just don’t see myself being able to see around that.

blatantblue on May 31, 2012 at 12:41 PM

Not sure, but we do know that 91.4% of them occur before the 13th week.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 12:33 PM

Irrevelant. It’s worse if performed after 13 weeks and for gender selection purposes? Less of a life?

a capella on May 31, 2012 at 12:42 PM

melle1228 on May 31, 2012 at 12:30 PM

…beat me to it… but to add: if the finding of millions of abortions is accurate and the relative % of gays in the populations is 3% (common perception) then in excess of 30,000 gays babies are killed annually….

just sayin’, libfree.

socalcon on May 31, 2012 at 12:42 PM

1st sign on the wall in the clinic states in bold “WOMEN COUNT”

apparently, they are bragging about the body count….?

ted c on May 31, 2012 at 11:28 AM

The sign flashed by so fast, you saw it wrong.

It said “WOMAN COUNT”, and included a little changing number window underneath, kind of like the old McDonalds sign that said “Over 9 Billion Served”

Haiku Guy on May 31, 2012 at 12:43 PM

I don’t understand this comment. Abortion isn’t murder, but people who do it because of gender bias are horrible and should be condemned? Why should they be condemned? According to you it’s not like they murdered someone. You have no problem with abortion but only the reasons people do it? You need to perform a lengthy examination of conscience.

Goldenavatar on May 31, 2012 at 12:28 PM

That’s because Libfreeordie and the left in general have appointed themselves the high priests of society. They get final say on what is and isn’t moral. The left has evolved into the church lady.

DFCtomm on May 31, 2012 at 12:43 PM

Here’s what the UN Human Rights agency, WHO and others sasy about sex-selection abortion:

“This OHCHR, UNFPA, UNICEF, UN Women and WHO joint interagency statement reaffirms the commitment of United Nations agencies to encourage and support efforts by States, international and national organizations, civil society and communities to uphold the rights of girls and women and to address the multiple manifestations of gender discrimination including the problem of imbalanced sex ratios caused by sex selection”

http://whqlibdoc.who.int/publications/2011/9789241501460_eng.pdf

Guess donations from NOW trumps WHO, eh??

EasyEight on May 31, 2012 at 12:43 PM

blatantblue on May 31, 2012 at 12:41 PM

I know it’s none of my business but you might want to wait and see what happens after. She may have an entirely different perspective after and need some support. If she remains cavalier, I can understand your decision. It must be horrible to think that this is your best option.

Cindy Munford on May 31, 2012 at 12:49 PM

PRESIDENT INFANTICIDE

He sold his political soul in the Illinois Senate when he opposed providing medical care to those that survived botched abortions.

When you bow down that low……..where else is there to go?

PappyD61 on May 31, 2012 at 12:49 PM

With advances in genetic mapping, it may be possible to determine many characteristics of an unborn child beyond sex.
Would it be okay to abort for:
1. blue eyes gene
2. left handedness gene
3. dark completion gene
4. black hair gene
5. slow runner gene
6. hairy legs gene
7. big nose gene
8. alcoholic predisposition gene
9. gay predisposition gene

No problem with Planned Parenthood or the ObamaCrats.

stefano1 on May 31, 2012 at 12:50 PM

For four decades, we have been told ad nauseum that “it’s a woman’s right,” “it’s her body,” “her choice,” “no one has the right to force her to give birth,” etc.

Now they say there is an exception? By their reasoning, doesn’t that make her a baby factory?

I’ve tried to engage several of those folks in a discussion of this exception, but they’ve suddenly found something else to do.

Well, praise God, there is one circumstance in which they believe the child has the right to live. Unless, of course, the mother comes up with another reason to kill the baby.

The other circumstance that makes pro-aborts’ heads spin is this: If it turned out that there is a genetic cause for homosexuality, would it be all right for mothers to abort those babies?

They really hate that question.

KyMouse on May 31, 2012 at 12:50 PM

Well, for one thing I don’t support abortions out of the first trimester unless they are to save the mother’s life. Once particular disorders and diseases are found it is wrong to end a pregnancy for that reason. In the future this could lead to not only sex selective abortions, but aborting potentially gay or lesbian people. I could see certain black families aborting kids who were going to have a darker phenotype (if that was ever testable). I believe abortion as a means of birth control is acceptable in the first trimester, not as a means of producing some creepy idealized society where all difference is snuffed out. Again, life of the mother of course takes precedence and a threat there should allow for abortion after 13 weeks.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 12:41 PM

Okay, in a thread about sex selective abortions the very first thing you posted was a red herring about the number of abortions performed before 13 weeks. Then later you admitted to being opposed to sex selective abortions. Why is it then that you seem intent on deflecting the issue with almost all of your posts? The percentage of abortions performed before 13 weeks is irrelevent to morality of sex selective abortions.

Goldenavatar on May 31, 2012 at 12:53 PM

Abortion is the American Holocaust.

………..and we’re long past the 6 million number from the “Polish Death Camps” that we lost in WWII.

God have mercy on those that turn a blind eye to the cries of the unborn.

PappyD61 on May 31, 2012 at 12:53 PM

IF sex selective abortion is a more widespread problem in this country than previously thought (and these Live Action videos do nothing to prove that premise) than they are a symptom of misogyny and patriarchy. That is where the battle lines should be drawn, at the root. But Live Action’s not interested in destroying the ideologies that might cause a woman to devalue a female child over a male child, doing so might lead to an uncomfortable conversation about what pro-lifers think a woman’s proper role in society is.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 12:53 PM

Not sure, but we do know that 91.4% of them occur before the 13th week.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 12:33 PM

Yeah so, if you don’t think it is a life.. What is the difference between 12 and 13 weeks?

melle1228 on May 31, 2012 at 12:53 PM

IF sex selective abortion is a more widespread problem in this country than previously thought (and these Live Action videos do nothing to prove that premise) than they are a symptom of misogyny and patriarchy.

No it is a sign of idiotic women who have been fed a line that abortion is like getting a mole removed. Men don’t make the decision to have and abortion, women do. THAT is the problem.

melle1228 on May 31, 2012 at 12:54 PM

boy are the lib talking heads outraged about this bill…

cmsinaz on May 31, 2012 at 12:57 PM

Okay, in a thread about sex selective abortions the very first thing you posted was a red herring about the number of abortions performed before 13 weeks.

The goal of these videos is not to get viewers to interrogate why sex selective abortion is happening or to find ways to make sure every American believes a woman is as valuable of a person as a man. The goal of these videos is to end all abortion, period. As a result, it becomes necessary to talk about the practice of abortion in this country as a whole, rather than these two individuals. Again, if Live Action produced a study that told us:

1. How many clinics they tried this in.
2. How many times they received support for the faked sex selective abortion.
3. How many times they were rebuffed.
4. How many times the sting was discovered.

That would be the basis for a real conversation about sex selective abortion. But they didn’t chose to do that, which suggests to me that those disclosures do not fit within their agenda. It delegtimizes the impact of these videos and reveals them merely as propaganda to rationalize ending all abortion. The videos themselves are red herrings.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 12:58 PM

90+% of the African American community will vote to re-elect the man that strongly supports a policy ends the lives of millions of future African Americans.

Upside down, and lost this world is.

PappyD61 on May 31, 2012 at 1:00 PM

This is another manufactured outrage involving a few rare isolated incidents that do not accord with Planned Parenthood’s policies.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 12:01 PM

How many do you need before it is no longer a “few rare isolated incidents”?

BTW, when the story first broke I predicted that one of the first line of defenses will be “it is isolated”, since it would be logistically impossible to infiltrate every PP office…so the proof they come up with can always be “isolated examples”.

Good try…naw, it was a weak try by you, and noted before you got the memo…but you are a good little puppet.

right2bright on May 31, 2012 at 1:00 PM

Evolved.

Blue Collar Todd on May 31, 2012 at 1:03 PM

Is the US or China?

RDE2010 on May 31, 2012 at 11:43 AM

Its Ameritopia. In China they banned ultrasound machines to prevent this.

bernverdnardo1 on May 31, 2012 at 1:03 PM

That rhetoric is clearly producing actual, verifiable data. Until Live Action produces an actual study, there’s no way to claim this practice is endemic to PP.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 12:21 PM

It’s amusing to watch a liberal pretend to understand how “science” works…

A. Why are you setting up an impossible standard for Live Action, or related pro-life groups, to meet? Please tell me that even you understand that Planned Parenthood would never allow a pro-life group access to their clients and information to actually perform such as study.

B. Could you please provide a link to the study or studies documenting the “actual, verifiable data” on the link between hate crimes and ministers espousing “anti-gay hatred?” Since there are “tens of thousands” of such instances, and you’ve referred to the incontrovertible evidence that they are caused by this rhetoric, I’m sure you can back it up with the same kind of scientific studies you demand from Live Action… Right?

/s

cs89 on May 31, 2012 at 1:03 PM

That would be the basis for a real conversation about sex selective abortion. But they didn’t chose to do that, which suggests to me that those disclosures do not fit within their agenda. It delegtimizes the impact of these videos and reveals them merely as propaganda to rationalize ending all abortion. The videos themselves are red herrings.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 12:58 PM

Now, since you don’t know what they have…you tell us what answers would convince you regarding the four questions.

1, I would say 6 would be enough
2, I would say 4 would be more than enough out of the 6
3, I would say if they were rebuffed more than 80%
4, Doesn’t matter, it isn’t important how well the “covert” operation was effective, just that it discovered what was unknown.
That is like saying a drug sting is only valuable if it works most of the time, if not, than the other drug stings were not viable.

right2bright on May 31, 2012 at 1:05 PM

Not sure, but we do know that 91.4% of them occur before the 13th week.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 12:33 PM

The date of conception is at best a rough estimate and it’s to the abortionist’s advantage to pretend the abortion is within the first trimester.

NoDonkey on May 31, 2012 at 1:06 PM

91.4% of abortions are performed before the 13th week. I’ll just have to keep posting it until you all stop acting as if the total number of abortions has any bearing on the manufactured non-issue of “sex selective abortion” in the U.S.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 12:34 PM

The only thing that proves is the women that killed their babies didn’t care to find out if it was a boy or a girl, they just wanted the baby dead.
You plan to give these women a medal? Just make sure it comes with a box of condoms or a note to keep their legs closed.

CherryBombsBigBrownBeaver on May 31, 2012 at 1:06 PM

IF sex selective abortion is a more widespread problem in this country than previously thought (and these Live Action videos do nothing to prove that premise) than they are a symptom of misogyny and patriarchy. That is where the battle lines should be drawn, at the root. But Live Action’s not interested in destroying the ideologies that might cause a woman to devalue a female child over a male child, doing so might lead to an uncomfortable conversation about what pro-lifers think a woman’s proper role in society is.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 12:53 PM

You’ve already acquiesced to driving over the cliff – so much so that you’re fine with driving it. Now you want to argue over what color car?

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH. Rationalization. The most favored pastime of the liberal.

kim roy on May 31, 2012 at 1:11 PM

Again, life of the mother of course takes precedence and a threat there should allow for abortion after 13 weeks.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 12:41 PM

Since you are so interested in the percentage of abortions and when they are performed, here’s a question for you: what percent of abortions are performed because there is a real threat to the life of the mother?

And no, the life of the mother does not take precedence. The lives of both mother and child take precedence. Every measure should be taken to save both.

Goldenavatar on May 31, 2012 at 1:12 PM

1, I would say 6 would be enough

I did a google search to see how many Planned Parenthood offices in the U.S., I thought the number would be in the thousands. I was shocked and dismayed to find that most estimates have the number at around 850. That is shockingly small and suggests that the right is winning the war on women’s reproductive health. Even so, you’re suggesting that a sample of less than 1% of clinics would be a fair sampling?

6 P2, I would say 4 would be more than enough out of the 6

Well sure, over 50% of a given sample is enough to draw conclusions, except when the sample is less than 1% of an institutions offices.

3, I would say if they were rebuffed more than 80%

If 80% of a sample of 150 PP offices rebuffed them that would definitely be enough to prove to me that this is not a PP supported practice.

4, Doesn’t matter, it isn’t important how well the “covert” operation was effective, just that it discovered what was unknown.
right2bright on May 31, 2012 at 1:05 PM

The reason for that data point would be purely about demonstrating a sound and transparent methodology.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 1:14 PM

kim roy on May 31, 2012 at 1:11 PM

She’s trying to be intellectual.

a capella on May 31, 2012 at 1:15 PM

Very carefully scripted the PP worker is. When referring to the sex of the BABY, she refrains from using the word baby. Instead she says “Sex of the pregnancy.” Wouldn’t want to drive home the fact that it’s a baby, would we now? Disgraceful.

SusanAnne Hiller on May 31, 2012 at 1:16 PM

That would be the basis for a real conversation about sex selective abortion. But they didn’t chose to do that, which suggests to me that those disclosures do not fit within their agenda. It delegtimizes the impact of these videos and reveals them merely as propaganda to rationalize ending all abortion. The videos themselves are red herrings.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 12:58 PM

Anybody wanna bet libfreeorfries is covering his ears while posting this?

CherryBombsBigBrownBeaver on May 31, 2012 at 1:17 PM

the Margaret Sanger clinic in New York City

A clinic named after the old racist?
They ought to be ashamed of their founder.
Then again, if you kill kids for a living, nothing would shame you.

itsnotaboutme on May 31, 2012 at 1:18 PM

might lead to an uncomfortable conversation about what pro-lifers think a woman’s proper role in society is.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 12:53 PM

Perhaps a girl/boy/gay/straight/man/woman’s role in society is first to exist.

kringeesmom on May 31, 2012 at 1:19 PM

might lead to an uncomfortable conversation about what pro-lifers think a woman’s proper role in society is.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 12:53 PM

And what is that proper role oh wise one?

melle1228 on May 31, 2012 at 1:22 PM

Again, if Live Action produced a study that told us:

1. How many clinics they tried this in.
2. How many times they received support for the faked sex selective abortion.
3. How many times they were rebuffed.
4. How many times the sting was discovered.

That would be the basis for a real conversation about sex selective abortion. But they didn’t chose to do that, which suggests to me that those disclosures do not fit within their agenda. It delegtimizes the impact of these videos and reveals them merely as propaganda to rationalize ending all abortion. The videos themselves are red herrings.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 12:58 PM

When Stanley Kramer produced and directed “Judgement at Nuremberg” and Spencer Tracy acted in it, one of the things they wished to encompass was the inhumanity of acts by the Nazis. They asked simply; how do you convey the loss of millions?

What they did was to convey this tragedy by by stating that it did not matter if they loss was a million, or a hundred-thousand, or a thousand, or a hundred. If it was just a single life, it was an atrocity.

This is the message. If it is a single life, it is a crime.

itsspideyman on May 31, 2012 at 1:22 PM

I told you, often, the lefties hate women and minorities, and keep them in the modern day plantations, suppressed and exploited just for votes.

Schadenfreude on May 31, 2012 at 1:22 PM

The reason for that data point would be purely about demonstrating a sound and transparent methodology.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 1:14 PM

The challenge was for you to come up with your numbers…I gave you mine, and of course you rejected them.
Come up with honest numbers, of course you know the limitations of being able to go into hundreds of offices…but how many would you think would give you the pattern? 10, 15, that should be more than enough.

The reason for that data point would be purely about demonstrating a sound and transparent methodology.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 1:14 PM

So again, if a drug sting goes bad, if 80% don’t uncover drugs, than you would state that drugs don’t exist?
Or that drugs exist, just the methodology is not effective in uncovering the “hit”.

right2bright on May 31, 2012 at 1:23 PM

PP, the lefties and Obama are Chine now, what Obama and Friedman wanted all along.

Schadenfreude on May 31, 2012 at 1:23 PM

Would Mayor Bloomberg and his Progressive pals…..

…..like to use selective gender abortion to get rid of those that might drink sugary drinks?

This is Margaret Sangers’ America.

PappyD61 on May 31, 2012 at 1:23 PM

kringeesmom on May 31, 2012 at 1:19 PM

But “to exist” in a society involves (at least) one other person, a mother as well as a host of other people. But I am beginning to see how conservative’s false idea that we are entirely independent, privatized individuals dovetails with how they imagine the abortion issue.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 1:23 PM

there’s also the tens of thousands of reported incidences of anti-gay violence that occur in this country every year. That rhetoric is clearly producing actual, verifiable data. Until Live Action produces an actual study, there’s no way to claim this practice is endemic to PP. libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 12:21 PM

Did I miss it, or did the article you linked to mention anything about “tens of thousands of incidences of ani-gay violence”? If so, please paste it in here, I missed it.

From the FBI’s 2008 stats:

5,542 offenses were classified as crimes against persons. Intimidation accounted for 48.8 percent of those crimes, simple assaults for 32.1 percent, and aggravated assaults for 18.5 percent. Seven murders were reported as hate crimes.

Akzed on May 31, 2012 at 1:24 PM

libfreeordie

Wow. I have officially read the stupidest thing ever written.

Congrats wingnut.

tom daschle concerned on May 31, 2012 at 1:26 PM

Come up with honest numbers, of course you know the limitations of being able to go into hundreds of offices…but how many would you think would give you the pattern? 10, 15, that should be more than enough.

Well Live Action has played their hand, so now any study would be useless. But if they had done things right I think 85 or 10% of clinics would be a fair measure.

So again, if a drug sting goes bad, if 80% don’t uncover drugs, than you would state that drugs don’t exist?

I never said that an 80% trend would be insuffecient to prove a point about a potential research question, whether the question is “do drug stings work” or “does PP encourage sex selective abortions?” What I said was that in order to assure readers of their transparency those failed stings should be part of any released data.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 1:27 PM

Because it doesn’t matter how it gets banned, murder is murder.

Bluray on May 31, 2012 at 12:09 PM

Murder laws are state laws. Let’s not confuse abortion with federalism.

Roe is terrible case law and should be overturned. PP should not receive taxpayer dollars. And I’d support any state that wishes to ban abortion. But this is not a federal issue.

Uncledave on May 31, 2012 at 1:28 PM

China and it’s one child policy today……

…..is America in 5 or 10 years.

Just imagine under ObamaCare how much naked power the HHS Secretary will have?

How long before there is MANDATORY DNA TESTING and tracking for individuals?

How long before bio-medical chips are required (to help those individuals that might be unable to speak in case of accident)?

How long before the states or Feds decide that CHILDREN need to be implanted with a medical monitoring type device that can help regulate behavior or ingestion of certain types of food?

Would parents be legally obligated to have the medical chips installed (or GPS tracking devices to prevent “missing children” epidemic)?

What if you’re a parent and you don’t want your child monitored by the state (or given counseling in the public schools about their “health rights”)?

Where does it end?

PappyD61 on May 31, 2012 at 1:29 PM

But I am beginning to see how conservative’s false idea that we are entirely independent, privatized individuals dovetails with how they imagine the abortion issue.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 1:23 PM

THat is because it doesn’t involve ONE private individual. It involves two.. You can’t have liberty or pursuit of happiness unless you have the most basic NATURAL right to life. One individual is taking away the right of another’s life. The state should intercede.

melle1228 on May 31, 2012 at 1:29 PM

Will the pro-aborts become prop-lifers when a test is developed that can tell parents whether their child will become gay?

Will they stand and say, “No, you can’t abort a foetus because it might grow up to be a homosexual human being”?

Resist We Much on May 31, 2012 at 1:30 PM

That would be the basis for a real conversation about sex selective abortion. But they didn’t chose to do that, which suggests to me that those disclosures do not fit within their agenda. It delegtimizes the impact of these videos and reveals them merely as propaganda to rationalize ending all abortion. The videos themselves are red herrings.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 12:58 PM

Yeah, as if a pro-murder group like PP is going to have a “real conversation” with opponents to abortion! You lefties are funny!
Fact of the matter is that abortions are the organizations cash cow. No way are they going to have a “real conversation” with those who want to stop the slaughter.

Happy Nomad on May 31, 2012 at 1:30 PM

Update: WH opposes sex-selective abortion ban bill

…until… there is more flexibility!

KOOLAID2 on May 31, 2012 at 1:31 PM

But “to exist” in a society involves (at least) one other person, a mother as well as a host of other people. But I am beginning to see how conservative’s false idea that we are entirely independent, privatized individuals dovetails with how they imagine the abortion issue.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 1:23 PM

Wow I didn’t realize it took so many to create life.. all these years I thought it only took 2, I sure missed the “host of other people” that might have been fun!.

Since I made my baby, paid for it to be born, paid for my own baby food, school lunch, preschool..I must be a phony. I’ve been deluded into the “false idea to create and nurture life as a private individual”.. Said baby is now all grown up, working in the real world, paying his bills, and picking up after himself (should I break the news to him that he’s a false idea?)

kringeesmom on May 31, 2012 at 1:32 PM

This is another manufactured outrage involving a few rare isolated incidents that do not accord with Planned Parenthood’s policies.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 12:01 PM

A few isolated incidents of murder, of selective murder based on gender. This isn’t about a chain of auto repair shops using substandard transmission parts or something.

Bishop on May 31, 2012 at 1:34 PM

First of all, the link had multiple instances of pastors spewing anti-gay hatred just in the month of May alone… That rhetoric is clearly producing actual, verifiable data.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 12:21 PM

Funny, cause I don’t remember “that rhetoric” visiting my church. For that matter, I can’t recall hearing “anti-gay hatred” at any church I have attended or visited in my 35 years of life.

I believe abortion as a means of birth control is acceptable in the first trimester, not as a means of producing some creepy idealized society where all difference is snuffed out. Again, life of the mother of course takes precedence and a threat there should allow for abortion after 13 weeks.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 12:41 PM

What is it about Week 13 that makes it your benchmark?

doing so might lead to an uncomfortable conversation about what pro-lifers think a woman’s proper role in society is.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 12:53 PM

Here we go again, more straw men about women being barefoot and pregnant. Apparently honoring the sanctity of human life is just an incomprehensible notion to you.

That is shockingly small and suggests that the right is winning the war on women’s reproductive health.

The war on women’s reproductive health? Is the abortion of a baby your only measure of a woman’s reproductive health? The obstetrician that saw my wife through all three of her pregnancies (plus two miscarriages) might not take kindly to your assessment of her contribution to my wife’s health.

Well sure, over 50% of a given sample is enough to draw conclusions, except when the sample is less than 1% of an institutions offices.

Rasmussen, to cite one example, tracks the presidential horse race on a rolling survey of 1,500 likely voters. The voting population in America in 2008 was 130 million. That represents one THOUSANDTH of 1% of the voting population. The margin of error is three percentage points. Your stat fu is weak.

If 80% of a sample of 150 PP offices rebuffed them that would definitely be enough to prove to me that this is not a PP supported practice.

If 80% of churches rebuffed the “anti-gay hatred reporters” providing their “actual, verifiable data”, would you similarly conclude that anti-gay rhetoric is not a significant part of Christendom in America? Or would you only assume that the rebuffing churches had something to hide?

The Schaef on May 31, 2012 at 1:35 PM

But “to exist” in a society involves (at least) one other person, a mother as well as a host of other people. But I am beginning to see how conservative’s false idea that we are entirely independent, privatized individuals dovetails with how they imagine the abortion issue.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 1:23 PM

Wow I didn’t realize it took so many to create life.. all these years I thought it only took 2, I sure missed the “host of other people” that might have been fun!.

Since I made my baby, paid for it to be born, paid for my own baby food, school lunch, preschool..I must be a phony. I’ve been deluded into the “false idea to create and nurture life as a private individual”.. Said baby is now all grown up, working in the real world, paying his bills, and picking up after himself (should I break the news to him that he’s a false idea?)

kringeesmom on May 31, 2012 at 1:32 PM

“It takes a village.”
-New Castrotti Hillary Fan

CherryBombsBigBrownBeaver on May 31, 2012 at 1:36 PM

does PP encourage sex selective abortions?” What I said was that in order to assure readers of their transparency those failed stings should be part of any released data.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 1:27 PM

If you look at PP’s own adoption referral statistics, they certainly do not appear to be discouraging the practice.

kringeesmom on May 31, 2012 at 1:36 PM

Easy Question libfreeordie:

If these folks are not acting in accordance with Planned Parenthood policies, how is it they know *exactly and specifically* how to comply with the abortion seeker’s request and how to game the medicaid system to cover it?

That knowledge doesn’t exactly come off the street – or rather – it DOES come from the street, from people no “reputable” organization like Planned Parenthood would do business under your vision of them as some saintly defender of women.

Planned Parenthood was founded with evil intentions, and remains evil to this day.

BKennedy on May 31, 2012 at 1:37 PM

But “to exist” in a society involves (at least) one other person, a mother as well as a host of other people. But I am beginning to see how conservative’s false idea that we are entirely independent, privatized individuals dovetails with how they imagine the abortion issue.

libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 1:23 PM

This is a wholly incorrect (if somewhat typical) assessment of the conservative mindset.

People are not independent and privatized from EACH OTHER. They are independent and privatized from a CENTRAL RULING POWER. It is merely in establishing the [inherent] freedom of the individual that the freedom of the society is secured.

The Schaef on May 31, 2012 at 1:38 PM

The Schaef on May 31, 2012 at 1:35 PM

Nicely done…that should pretty much put a fork in him/her…she/he usually runs after being beaten down.

right2bright on May 31, 2012 at 1:39 PM

Second of all, there’s also the tens of thousands of reported incidences of anti-gay violence that occur in this country every year.
 
libfreeordie on May 31, 2012 at 12:21 PM

 
You keep leaving this out for some reason:
 

NCAVP’s 2010 report demonstrates that anti-LGBTQH violence remains widespread and severe in the United States… black offenders comprised of 35.3% of offenders”

 
“That rhetoric is clearly producing actual, verifiable data” indeed.

rogerb on May 31, 2012 at 1:39 PM

Will the pro-aborts become pro-lifers when a test is developed that can tell parents whether their child will become gay?

Resist We Much on May 31, 2012 at 1:30 PM

Don’t be ignorant, in that case the federal government will step in and force the woman to give birth, strapped down to a table if need be.

Don’t you rightie wing dings understand anything?

Bishop on May 31, 2012 at 1:41 PM

The Schaef on May 31, 2012 at 1:38 PM

Also notice that they never gave answers to their questions, only attacking others who answered?
Kind of like the idea of the Senate not passing a budget, but attacking anyone else’s…same mentality, easier to attack than to come up with solutions.

right2bright on May 31, 2012 at 1:41 PM

Nicely done…that should pretty much put a fork in him/her…she/he usually runs after being beaten down.

right2bright on May 31, 2012 at 1:39 PM

The sentiment is greatly appreciated, but my goal here is not to “beat down” anybody. I just don’t see the connection between lib’s claims and… well, logic… and I would really like some clarification on the matter.

The Schaef on May 31, 2012 at 1:43 PM

Did Obama consult his daughters on this?

monalisa on May 31, 2012 at 1:52 PM

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