Ron Paul revolution is well beyond the fringe

posted at 1:31 pm on May 28, 2012 by Craig Westover

After a lengthy analysis of the Ron Paul influence evident at the Minnesota GOP Convention May 18-19 in St. Cloud (“Libertarian surge remakes state GOP,” May 20), the burning question for the Minneapolis Star Tribune Editorial Board was whether “a caucus-based political system that magnifies populist tides [and enabled Paul supporters to dominate the state convention] serves this state well.”

Couple that with a harsher Washington Post piece published in full online (“The party of Ron Paul?” May 24) — which labeled recently adopted planks in the Iowa Republican Party platform “wacky” and “nutty” and gleefully anticipated “a few highly visible fights” erupting over “Paulite positions in the national platform” — and it’s evident the Strib is a more than a little confused about what the Ron Paul revolution is all about.

Let me do what I can to clarify.

First, let’s understand what a “movement” or a “revolution” is. All movements — the Pat Robertson Republican coup in the 1980s, gay rights, women’s suffrage, civil rights and, yes, the Ron Paul movement — follow a common pattern.

Movements all begin at the margins with people who have little or nothing to lose. Unsuccessful movements never expand beyond the sloganeering fringe. Successful movements — those with an intellectual and moral basis — mature to attract a mainstream following.

The gay-rights movement is a great example. Shirtless hunks in leather tutus and motorcycling “Dykes on Bikes” are no longer the point of the gay-rights spear. It’s the gay lawyer/gay accountant, lesbian legislator/lesbian physician — same-sex couples with kids and fundamental concerns about faith, family and freedom — who are now the face of the movement.

Focusing commentary on the remnants of the gay-rights fringe is something the media would never do. But focusing on the fringe of the Ron Paul movement is exactly what the Strib and WaPo commentaries actually do.

Libertarians today are on that cusp between being all about the T-shirt and all about ideas. I was a libertarian before it was cool and a Republican when it wasn’t cool.

As a political force in the 1970s, libertarians had little to lose. They were the folks who couldn’t be Democrats because they believed their money was theirs to spend; but they couldn’t be Republicans because they wanted to spend it on drugs and prostitutes.

Times have changed.

Libertarians today are less about provocative issues and more about reversing the expanding scope of government. Government expansion is bad in itself, but the future consequences are worse: Without defined limits on government, our liberties, our American republic, are truly at risk.

But, says the Washington Post, Americans aren’t buying that argument. If it were, Ron Paul would get more than 15 percent of the primary vote.

The Strib offers its caucus-questioning advice to an implied majority of “voters who believe government remains a useful tool for improving people’s lives.” Unfortunately, that glass-half-empty perspective on the Ron Paul revolution misses a significant point.

In Ron Paul, you have a charisma-challenged old white guy who, without pandering or pushing prejudice, inspires young people with the always sexy message of monetary policy.

A viable presidential challenge built by sticking to principle, not telling people only what they want to hear, is a political story the Strib and the Washington Post would shout from the rooftops — if only the message were a message they wanted to hear.

The power of an idea, personal freedom, doesn’t lie in manufactured popularity.

What about that Paul-inspired “wacky,” “nutty” “constitutional fundamentalism” found in Republican Party platforms?

Sure, abolishing the Department of Agriculture and the Federal Reserve is not going to happen even under a President Paul. But a political party that seriously considers abolishing cabinet-level departments and unaccountable government entities is a political party that probably won’t advocate for a new cabinet-level “Department of the Internet” and is serious about monetary policy.

It’s a party that stands for something.

That brings us to the WaPo admonition that “Paulites” learn to compromise, lest, says the Strib, the philosophical gulf “that’s already proving difficult to bridge by those seeking to govern this state” grows even wider.

One does not compromise principle. It’s a cliché and a fallacy that, given two diametrically opposed points of view, the “truth” must necessarily lie somewhere in the middle.

The Republican problem is buying into the “compromise is good” argument and declaring victory for every move to the left that “could have been so much worse.”

Paulites won’t make that compromise.

Ron Paul delegates to the RNC will support the nominee. However, integral to that support is holding the candidate and the party to the fundamental principles of limited government and personal and economic freedom. Constancy to principle is the ultimate loyalty.

All that said, I urge our media friends to examine the default position that government is good and invite them to think for themselves. The Ron Paul revolution offers the media, the Republican Party and America that opportunity. Take it.

——–

Craig Westover is a Republican activist and a Ron Paul delegate to the Republican National Convention. Follow him on Twitter: @CraigWestover and Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/craig.westover.

This article originally appeared in the Minneapolis Star Tribune May 26. 2012.

 

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Your words are feeble and twisted as an old woman.

Rebar on May 28, 2012 at 5:18 PM

That would put them one up on your “logic”.

JohnGalt23 on May 28, 2012 at 5:22 PM

I don’t get this at all. If you went back in time and sat with with Founders, they’d all agree (with the exception of Hamilton on the Fed) with Ron Paul! All the founders were Libertarians!

Kaasproav on May 28, 2012 at 5:25 PM

iwasbornwithit on May 28, 2012 at 5:20 PM

I never said ‘Nazis’ I said that the majority of Ronbots that I met while active in Chicago Tea Parties and- the few I’ve met here(there are plenty, but I refuse to associate with them)-are Jew-haters. The majority in Chicago were also 9/11 truthers. THAT is a fact.

annoyinglittletwerp on May 28, 2012 at 5:27 PM

That would put them one up on your “logic”.

JohnGalt23 on May 28, 2012 at 5:22 PM

*YAWN*

Come on, you can do better than that. Give me one of those tirades that causes people to recoil in horror from anything Paulian, that you’re so good at.

Rebar on May 28, 2012 at 5:27 PM

Come on, you can do better than that. Give me one of those tirades that causes people to recoil in horror from anything Paulian, that you’re so good at.

Rebar on May 28, 2012 at 5:27 PM

Those are only inspired by a good interlocutor. Half-wits, like you, just don’t make the grade.

JohnGalt23 on May 28, 2012 at 5:29 PM

I don’t get this at all. If you went back in time and sat with with Founders, they’d all agree (with the exception of Hamilton on the Fed) with Ron Paul! All the founders were Libertarians!

Kaasproav on May 28, 2012 at 5:25 PM

Then I think we can conclude from this that all of the Founders were “virulent” anti-Semites.

Sorry. I don’t really have a dog in this fight but couldn’t resist the snark.

Dack Thrombosis on May 28, 2012 at 5:29 PM

JohnGalt23 on May 28, 2012 at 5:29 PM

So much for the fire-breathing cultist of Ron, even he is spent and burned out on his Dear Leader.

Rebar on May 28, 2012 at 5:31 PM

Perhaps you are merely projecting yet again?

DannoJyd on May 28, 2012 at 5:19 PM

No projection sweety. You charged that RP fans would stay home. You’re vote for Johnson might as well be a vote for Obama.

Good job !

/

CW on May 28, 2012 at 5:32 PM

So, in many ways what we are doing here in the Congress is reneging on our responsibilities. Because it is the responsibility of the Congress to earmark. That’s our job. We’re supposed to tell the people how we’re spending the money. Not to just deliver it in the lump sum to the executive branch and let them deal with it. And then it’s dealt with behind the scenes. Actually, if you voted against all the earmarks there would be less transparency. Earmarks really allow transparency and we know exactly where the money is being spent.

You know, the big issue is the spending. If you don’t like the spending, vote against the bill. But the principle of earmarking is something that we have to think about because we’re just further undermining the responsibilities that we have here in the Congress. And if we want to get things under control it won’t be because we vote against an earmark and make a big deal of attacking earmarks because it doesn’t address the subject.- Ron Paul

Open your eyes.

CW on May 28, 2012 at 5:33 PM

Whatever. You obviously pay no attention to the abuse that Paul supporters take here. We are called Nazis, anti-semites, retards, white supremacists, junkies, anti-American and closet Obama supporters regularly and when we deign to respond somewhat in kind then along comes the inevitable concern troll “You know, I would vote for Ron Paul if his supporters weren’t so insulting”. BS.

iwasbornwithit on May 28, 2012 at 5:06 PM

The first time I encountered a supporter of Ron Paul (in real life and on the Internet) they had nothing nice to say about me because of what I believed and I’m the kind of guy that tries to be nice to everyone, even if I disagree with them. Yeah, I see that some people here call ya guys names and insult you, but I can say with certainty that the lack of civility originated on your end.

Corporal Tunnel on May 28, 2012 at 5:41 PM

Rebar on May 28, 2012 at 4:42 PM

How did you vote for Gingrich in the Texas primary that doesn’t occur until tomorrow? Or are you still so thick that you think that voting in a poll is the same as voting in a primary or a caucus? Or are you just lying? And why would you vote for someone that has suspended his campaign at this point? You make zero sense.

iwasbornwithit on May 28, 2012 at 5:44 PM

What I admire most about Ron Paul is you can caught him to say things that won’t help him get nominated. If only Obama was this honest.

Dr. Tesla on May 28, 2012 at 5:45 PM

iwasbornwithit on May 28, 2012 at 5:44 PM

Texas has early voting.

Yeah.

Rebar on May 28, 2012 at 5:45 PM

Woops, forgot the link.

Anything else, Mr. “Rand Paul is stupid”?

Rebar on May 28, 2012 at 5:49 PM

Ron Paul may be the most talked about politician who never even competed for his party’s primary in the history of the United States. He’s basically a loser but yet all these gushing tributes to him exist. What’s the point of being a Ron Paul delegate at this point. He lost, move on.

Dr. Tesla on May 28, 2012 at 5:49 PM

In Ron Paul, you have a charisma-challenged old white guy who, without pandering or pushing prejudice, inspires young people with the always sexy message of monetary policy.

Ron Paul most certainly pandered to and pushed prejudice. His racist newsletters and his racist supporters is evidence of that.

Conservative Samizdat on May 28, 2012 at 5:57 PM

It’s interesting that nobody has mentioned his praise for Occupy Wall Street. He called it a “very healthy movement.” Think Progress was very pleased.
Source.

And then there’s that:
“Ron Paul supporters, OWS protesters join forces to harass Gingrich, Santorum”

Gelsomina on May 28, 2012 at 5:57 PM

The first time I encountered a supporter of Ron Paul (in real life and on the Internet) they had nothing nice to say about me because of what I believed and I’m the kind of guy that tries to be nice to everyone, even if I disagree with them. Yeah, I see that some people here call ya guys names and insult you, but I can say with certainty that the lack of civility originated on your end.

Corporal Tunnel on May 28, 2012 at 5:41 PM

Really? Maybe we just define “civility” very differently.

Roll ‘em and smoke ‘em…if you got ‘em

KOOLAID2 on May 28, 2012 at 1:32 PM

And don’t forget those tinfoil hats!
pilamaye on May 28, 2012 at 1:33 PM

Despite an exceedingly weak field of candidates, Paul only got one out of 10 republican primary votes. And most of those came from monkey-wrenching democrats, libertarians who otherwise would never vote GOP, and a motley collection of muslems, anti-semites, anarchists, code pink, and pot legalization freaks.

The cult of Ron Paul is by definition fringe, and the best thing that can happen to the GOP is if they moved that whole circus freak show over to the democrat party – where it belongs.

Rebar on May 28, 2012 at 1:37 PM

Paul is a phony and his supporters are retarded. Let them go back to the left where they belong.

bernverdnardo1 on May 28, 2012 at 1:45 PM

And that was before my first post which was in no way insulting. So tell me again how you are “certain” that I started the insults?

iwasbornwithit on May 28, 2012 at 5:59 PM

Every Paulbot I know tells me that they will not be voting for Romney, and hope that Obama wins. Their feelings are that if things get bad enough within the country that it will be an opening for them to become relevant and listened to. That along with their irrational hatred for Jews make it hard to take them seriously for me.

Rockshine on May 28, 2012 at 6:00 PM

I vote for whoever follows the constitution the most. That would be Ron Paul or Gary Johnson. Obamney is a joke. Sorry neo-cons.

sirmyth on May 28, 2012 at 6:01 PM

iwasbornwithit on May 28, 2012 at 5:44 PM

Early voting, idiot.
I voted 2 weeks ago…for Mitt.

annoyinglittletwerp on May 28, 2012 at 6:03 PM

Rebar on May 28, 2012 at 5:49 PM

Because you have poor reading comprehension skills, I never said that Rand Paul was stupid but I did say that his seemingly absolute opposition to earmarks was stupid. So he is generally very smart, but stupid on this issue. Just like I didn’t say that at all people that support earmarks ARE stupid in general, just that their opposition to earmarks was stupid. I’m sorry you can’t discern the difference between that and my making the 100% accurate statement that YOU are stupid in general as confirmed by the fact that you voted for someone that has suspended his campaign and endorsed Romney. You are so brave!

iwasbornwithit on May 28, 2012 at 6:05 PM

annoyinglittletwerp on May 28, 2012 at 6:03 PM

I’m surprised that you are so eager to throw your support behind someone that thinks so little of your faith:

Mormons still baptizing dead Jews.

iwasbornwithit on May 28, 2012 at 6:11 PM

Ron Paul most certainly pandered to and pushed prejudice. His racist newsletters and his racist supporters is evidence of that.

Conservative Samizdat on May 28, 2012 at 5:57 PM

The American Free Press, which markets books like “The Invention of the Jewish People” and “March of the Titans: A History of the White Race,” is urging its subscribers to help it send hundreds of copies of Ron Paul’s collected speeches to voters in New Hampshire. The book, it promises, will “Help Dr. Ron Paul Win the G.O.P. Nomination in 2012!”

Don Black, director of the white nationalist Web site Stormfront, said in an interview that several dozen of his members were volunteering for Mr. Paul’s presidential campaign, and a site forum titled “Why is Ron Paul such a favorite here?” has no fewer than 24 pages of comments. “I understand he wins many fans because his monetary policy would hurt Jews,” read one.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/26/us/politics/ron-paul-disowns-extremists-views-but-doesnt-disavow-the-support.html?pagewanted=all

golembythehudson on May 28, 2012 at 6:12 PM

This is nice and all that but what’s the point? I mean, other than offering a certain clarity from the author’s perspective, what does he want? Everyone to suddenly jump off the Romney boat and embrace Ron Paul for president in the top of the 9th inning?

princetrumpet on May 28, 2012 at 6:14 PM

iwasbornwithit on May 28, 2012 at 6:05 PM

Even if you stupidly believe earmarks are bad

iwasbornwithit on May 28, 2012 at 3:21 PM

We’ll let the readers decide what was said.

Also, an unkind person might point out, that 90% of the republican base voted for someone other than Ron Paul, which again according to you makes a whole lot of people stupid.

Rebar on May 28, 2012 at 6:16 PM

I’m surprised that you are so eager to throw your support behind someone that thinks so little of your faith:

Mormons still baptizing dead Jews.

iwasbornwithit on May 28, 2012 at 6:11 PM

i don’t have a problem with Mormons-and since Jews don’t acknowledge the power of baptism-the baptizing of the dead means…nothing.
Mitt’s pro-Israel and a friend of Bibi. That’s good enough for me.
*his views on Israel on one of the MANY reasons why I support him*

annoyinglittletwerp on May 28, 2012 at 6:18 PM

annoyinglittletwerp on May 28, 2012 at 6:18 PM

A lot of holocaust survivors aren’t as nonchalant as you are on this issue.

Like most of the neocons on here, you could give a damn about our own fiscal issues, as long as we send guns and butter to Israel.

iwasbornwithit on May 28, 2012 at 6:23 PM

i don’t know why all these people are on here campaigning for Mitt, let Mitt do that. it’s not like “moderate” swing voters are at hot air.

Dr. Tesla on May 28, 2012 at 6:24 PM

PaulBOTs do nothing but disrupt and embarrass the Repub party and always wind up supporting the d-cRAT socialist by throwing away their vote on some libertarian nut-job.

TeaPartyNation on May 28, 2012 at 6:26 PM

Rebar on May 28, 2012 at 6:16 PM

I’m a very kind person but I can’t stand dishonest slimers like yourself.

So why did you vote for Newt instead of Romney or Paul when he has suspended his campaign and endorsed Romney?

iwasbornwithit on May 28, 2012 at 6:28 PM

iwasbornwithit on May 28, 2012 at 6:23 PM

Don’t you f*cking question my patriotism, scumbag!

Israel may be one of my issues-but it’s not the only issue. At the top is the economy…not that I really need to explain myself to a parasitic peace of trash like you.

annoyinglittletwerp on May 28, 2012 at 6:29 PM

annoyinglittletwerp,

why do you care so much about Israel. you never struck me as a foreign policy guru.

Dr. Tesla on May 28, 2012 at 6:32 PM

Dr. Tesla on May 28, 2012 at 6:32 PM

I’m the daughter of patriots who were/are ardent Zionists.
I’m a proud American, a proud Texan in Training-and a proud Jew.

annoyinglittletwerp on May 28, 2012 at 6:35 PM

annoyinglittletwerp on May 28, 2012 at 6:29 PM

Paul threads always bring ‘em ALT, pay them no mind….

Tim Zank on May 28, 2012 at 6:35 PM

The Paultard Movement is where the Goldwater/Reagan movement was around, say, 1962.

You know how I can tell this? By the way Palin treats him. Sarah isn’t dismissive of Paul at all, because she knows that the GOP is become more Jacksonian and populist with every passing day.

Yes, Mittens will win the nomination, but that’s like saying Tom Dewey will be nominated in 1948. That doesn’t mean he’ll control the Party. He only controls the Beltway and the vampires who run the RNC, but not the rank and file.

Paul is moving to control the state committee’s because he wants to control the direction of the Party in the future. He doesn’t give a rat’s a$$ about 2012, he cares about fundamental reform of the government. So does Palin, although she’s working on a much smaller scale than Paul is at this time.

I suspect that while the two have a tacit alliance right now, Palin and Paul will come to blows some time in the future over the direction of the Party long after Mr. Mannequin has passed from the scene.

victor82 on May 28, 2012 at 6:38 PM

iwasbornwithit on May 28, 2012 at 6:23 PM

Don’t you f*cking question my patriotism, scumbag!

Israel may be one of my issues-but it’s not the only issue. At the top is the economy…not that I really need to explain myself to a parasitic peace of trash like you.

annoyinglittletwerp on May 28, 2012 at 6:29 PM

I agree with the other poster. You are NOT an American Patriot. American patriots don’t lie and play politics the way you are playing politics with Isreal. The fact that some people don’t like the way BIbi is running Isreal doesn’t mean they hate Jews or hate Isreal. Only unpatriotic political hacks like yourself think otherwise.

Uppereastside on May 28, 2012 at 6:38 PM

annoyingtwerp,

So basically an ethnic solidiarity thing for you? There is nothing wrong with that, but you seem pretty much like a SuperFan of Israel. I tend to agree with pro-Israel positions of most republicans but i don’t know if i’m a SUPERFAN but foreign policy isn’t that big of a deal to me compared stuff like taxes and healthcare policy.

Dr. Tesla on May 28, 2012 at 6:39 PM

Don’t you f*cking question my patriotism, scumbag!

Israel may be one of my issues-but it’s not the only issue. At the top is the economy…not that I really need to explain myself to a parasitic peace of trash like you.

annoyinglittletwerp on May 28, 2012 at 6:29 PM

I am “parasitic”? I happen to have my own business where I employ several people and what is it that YOU do exactly you traitorous piece of trash? You want to send my hard-earned tax dollars off to support a foreign country for what reason exactly? How is that constitutional you lying parasite? Not that you care.

So who would you support if the US and Israel went to war?

iwasbornwithit on May 28, 2012 at 6:40 PM

I’m kind of tired of hearing about the Constitution all the time. Just starts to seem like a political prop at times. The diehard Romney supporters made me rethink my allegiance to the constitution.

Dr. Tesla on May 28, 2012 at 6:41 PM

iwasbornwithit on May 28, 2012 at 6:40 PM

I would examine the issues and support which ever nation I believed was more in the right.

I was born in Iowa. Last time I looked-it wasn’t part of Israel.

annoyinglittletwerp on May 28, 2012 at 6:42 PM

So why did you vote for Newt instead of Romney or Paul when he has suspended his campaign and endorsed Romney?

iwasbornwithit on May 28, 2012 at 6:28 PM

Last I looked, Paul suspended his campaign too, hotshot.

Rebar on May 28, 2012 at 6:44 PM

Don’t you f*cking question my patriotism, scumbag!

Israel may be one of my issues-but it’s not the only issue. At the top is the economy…not that I really need to explain myself to a parasitic peace of trash like you.

annoyinglittletwerp on May 28, 2012 at 6:29 PM

I am “parasitic”? I happen to have my own business where I employ several people and what is it that YOU do exactly you traitorous piece of trash? You want to send my hard-earned tax dollars off to support a foreign country for what reason exactly? How is that constitutional you lying parasite? Not that you care.

So who would you support if the US and Israel went to war?

iwasbornwithit on May 28, 2012 at 6:40 PM

Be careful there. The fact that you don’t support your tax dollars going overseas to fund a needless war between Isreal and some other country might reveal you as anti Isreal. After all we have been forbidden from questioning dear BIbi about anything.

Uppereastside on May 28, 2012 at 6:45 PM

Rebar on May 28, 2012 at 6:44 PM

Husband voted for Santorum as a protest vote.

annoyinglittletwerp on May 28, 2012 at 6:46 PM

I never saw Ron Paul criticize Romney on RomneyCare. That kind of seems like low hanging fruit for a self described liberterian.

It was the statist theocrat socialist progressive Santorum who hit Romney hardest on healthcare. Go figure. Guess he wanted to win.

Dr. Tesla on May 28, 2012 at 6:48 PM

annoyinglittletwerp on May 28, 2012 at 6:42 PM

And for gawds sakes don’t feed Dr tesla….

Tim Zank on May 28, 2012 at 6:48 PM

Rebar, not to get into a debate over the meaning of “is,” but I believe Ron Paul would take issue with your characterization of his campaign.

aryeung on May 28, 2012 at 6:49 PM

Tim Zank on May 28, 2012 at 6:48 PM

Oops. My bad.

annoyinglittletwerp on May 28, 2012 at 6:51 PM

So who would you support if the US and Israel went to war?

iwasbornwithit on May 28, 2012 at 6:40 PM

Oh, that’s good. I’m going to have to borrow that one.

rndmusrnm on May 28, 2012 at 6:52 PM

Rebar, not to get into a debate over the meaning of “is,” but I believe Ron Paul would take issue with your characterization of his campaign.

aryeung on May 28, 2012 at 6:49 PM

Yes, I know he’s “stopped campaigning”, which is… suspending his campaign.

Somehow the clear meanings of words escape the Ronbots, from top to bottom, doesn’t mean the rest of us need to play into their delusions.

Rebar on May 28, 2012 at 6:52 PM

Uppereastside on May 28, 2012 at 6:45 PM

Didn’t think you were against foreign aid. Perhaps I have you confused with someone else.

aryeung on May 28, 2012 at 6:53 PM

A lot of b.s. on here.

The “earmark” thing would only matter if Paul were not known for voting no on everything and is simply the biggest spending reduction-hawk ON THE PLANET.

The people who push the earmark thing are being intellectually dishonest liars. Ron Paul does not make a big deal about earmarks, as much as he attacks general spending – and nobody would reduce spending more than him so your attacks are as empty as your rhetoric.

The “racist newsletter” thing would only matter if Paul were not a champion of defending individual liberty, nor ending the drug war which disproportional effects blacks. When you defend liberty you necessarily defend the minority, which often includes blacks. He also routinely provided free health care to low income blacks and minorities, rather than take government cheese.

The earmark and newsletter thing is nothing more than a smokescreen or ruse to avoid the embarrassing foreign-policy questions YOU can’t answer.

SO TAKE YOUR RACE-BAITING TACTICS AND SHOVE RIGHT UP YOUR MITT ROMNEY.

fatlibertarianinokc on May 28, 2012 at 6:53 PM

Somehow the clear meanings of words escape the Ronbots, from top to bottom, doesn’t mean the rest of us need to play into their delusions.
Rebar on May 28, 2012 at 6:52 PM

Hmm, I guess we’ll have to see what happens at the convention.

aryeung on May 28, 2012 at 6:54 PM

I never seen this Tim Zank guy ever post anything intelligent on here but he demonizes me like the fool he is.

Dr. Tesla on May 28, 2012 at 6:57 PM

Tim Zank is the guy with the horse upside down with testiscles front n center on his little blog. Who wants to look at that kind of thing every damn day. :)

Dr. Tesla on May 28, 2012 at 6:59 PM

Lock up your wives, your children, your husbands, your horses when Tim Zank is in town.

And with that I’m going back “underground” as I might get Swatted by some terrorist dude up in Maryland.

Dr. Tesla on May 28, 2012 at 7:00 PM

Hmm, I guess we’ll have to see what happens at the convention.

aryeung on May 28, 2012 at 6:54 PM

Not really – Mitt Romney, for good or ill, will be given the nomination.

And that’s all that will happen.

Rebar on May 28, 2012 at 7:01 PM

Dr T, how many times you need to be slapped here? Go away, you are of no value to the site, we have an abundance of trolls already…

Tim Zank on May 28, 2012 at 7:03 PM

Not really – Mitt Romney, for good or ill, will be given the nomination.
And that’s all that will happen.
Rebar on May 28, 2012 at 7:01 PM

I don’t necessarily disagree with your opinion, but I’ll wait to see what happens :)

aryeung on May 28, 2012 at 7:03 PM

My opinion is that the true trolls play the troll card. Probably wrong, can’t prove it, don’t care. Most people who comment on websites are not the cream of the crop IQ wise so I accept it for what it is.

Dr. Tesla on May 28, 2012 at 7:05 PM

And that was before my first post which was in no way insulting. So tell me again how you are “certain” that I started the insults?

iwasbornwithit on May 28, 2012 at 5:59 PM

When I say ‘your end’, I mean most people like you. Sorry, but my first impressions of Ron Paul supporters weren’t good and I continue to have bad impressions of them. I think that the vast majority of them poisoned the well back in 2008. Sorry, that’s just my opinion.

Corporal Tunnel on May 28, 2012 at 7:08 PM

Last I looked, Paul suspended his campaign too, hotshot.

Rebar on May 28, 2012 at 6:44 PM

No he didn’t. He stopped campaigning in primary states. The campaign is still very active in caucus states, like Missouri. I keep forgetting that you don’t understand the difference between a caucus and a primary though.

BTW, I was disappointed with that decision but he is still way more in this process than Newt. RP will continue to pick up delegates. Newt and Santorum will not.

iwasbornwithit on May 28, 2012 at 7:08 PM

iwasbornwithit on May 28, 2012 at 5:59 PM

It’s not my style to cajole, browbeat or otherwise ridicule, but this is standard procedure for a supporter of Ron Paul.

Corporal Tunnel on May 28, 2012 at 7:10 PM

So who would you support if the US and Israel went to war?

iwasbornwithit on May 28, 2012 at 6:40 PM

I would examine the issues and support which ever nation I believed was more in the right.

I was born in Iowa. Last time I looked-it wasn’t part of Israel.

annoyinglittletwerp on May 28, 2012 at 6:42 PM

Wow. An amazing admission from the self-proclaimed zionist/”patriot”.

Thanks for letting us know how deep your patriotism truly is.

iwasbornwithit on May 28, 2012 at 7:14 PM

I keep forgetting that you don’t understand the difference between a caucus and a primary though.

iwasbornwithit on May 28, 2012 at 7:08 PM

I keep forgetting that you don’t understand Texas is a primary state, thus whatever word games Ronbots like to play about his suspending his campaign don’t apply here, and to my particular vote.

Funny though, how he simply gave up on his home state.

Rebar on May 28, 2012 at 7:14 PM

Uppereastside on May 28, 2012 at 6:45 PM

Didn’t think you were against foreign aid. Perhaps I have you confused with someone else.

aryeung on May 28, 2012 at 6:53 PM

I am against using our hard earned tax dollars to fund needless wars. Especially wars that have nothing to do with us. I do favor foreign aid that carefully targets hungry children and unfortunate people. I am against foreign aid to foreign officials who claim said aid will be used to care for the sick and needy. If American NGOs can’t oversee the aid, then I am against granting it.

Uppereastside on May 28, 2012 at 7:17 PM

annoyinglittletwerp on May 28, 2012 at 6:35 PM

…ALT?…the first to bite the worm?

KOOLAID2 on May 28, 2012 at 7:19 PM

. Most people who comment on websites are not the cream of the crop IQ wise so I accept it for what it is.

Dr. Tesla on May 28, 2012 at 7:05 PM

???????????????????????????????????????????????ha!

KOOLAID2 on May 28, 2012 at 7:21 PM

It’s not my style to cajole, browbeat or otherwise ridicule, but this is standard procedure for a supporter of Ron Paul.

Corporal Tunnel on May 28, 2012 at 7:10 PM

It may not be “your” style, but it is the style of a lot of anti-Paul folks here and you don’t seem to care about that. It isn’t my style either but there is only so much lying and insults that people can take before they respond with insults in kind. I don’t go after people that want to discuss RP substantively without insulting his supporters as racists/anti-semites/lunatics etc. I don’t know who you support and it doesn’t really matter, if you saw those comments made about you because you support Candidate “X” and you knew that it wasn’t true, it would p*** you off as well. Don’t act like you are so above it all until you’ve been on this end of things.

I am sorry that you had a bad experience with Paul supporters in 2008. I am active in the campaign in Missouri and have been to my county and congressional district caucus and I honestly can say that I have not seen Paul supporters act rudely towards anyone even when being actively provoked by the establishment. I’m sure that what you are saying is true, but don’t let a couple bad apples color your view of ALL RP supporters because people like that are definitely an outlier in my experience. We actually go out of our way to be nice and respectful even when the nastiest things are said to us by the establishment folks.

iwasbornwithit on May 28, 2012 at 7:23 PM

Don’t you f*cking question my patriotism, scumbag!

Israel may be one of my issues-but it’s not the only issue. At the top is the economy…not that I really need to explain myself to a parasitic peace of trash like you.

annoyinglittletwerp on May 28, 2012 at 6:29 PM

I stand with you.. Nations can have friends as well as allies.. and when Israel had to respond to Lebanese artillery and rocket strikes at their cities.. We had an informal chat among the men in my unit.. we were in Mobility.. tasked to ship out to the middle east if need be.. out of 22 men.. only two said they wouldn’t want to help fight to defend Israel.. only two.. Call me a Neo-Con.. it’s a badge of Honor to have you fools hate me. I stand for my country first.. and our deepest friends as well.

if you cannot understand how alliances work.. Then you do not understand how the Constitution allows the executive the powers to sign treaties for the benefit of the United States.. it comes from the presidents Constitutional power to negotiate and form treaties and alliances.. the State Department answers to him.

not that presidential powers matter to a Paul fanatic.. not one out of ten of you actually understand the Constitution you wave like a bloody shirt. Your hordes merely scream the word thinking it’ll scare everyone else into silence.. GFYS…

I am “parasitic”? I happen to have my own business where I employ several people and what is it that YOU do exactly you traitorous piece of trash? You want to send my hard-earned tax dollars off to support a foreign country for what reason exactly? How is that constitutional you lying parasite? Not that you care.

So who would you support if the US and Israel went to war?

iwasbornwithit on May 28, 2012 at 6:40 PM

Great.. another anti-semitic ….

You ever wear the uniform to defend this country yourself? Or is that something you only demand of others while you sit back and whine about those evil neo-cons?

Be careful there. The fact that you don’t support your tax dollars going overseas to fund a needless war between Israel and some other country might reveal you as anti Israel. After all we have been forbidden from questioning dear BIbi about anything.

Uppereastside on May 28, 2012 at 6:45 PM

You people just do not get the message.. it’s not that you criticize Israeli policy sometimes…

it’s that you do nothing but criticize Israel.. They can rain rockets on every Israeli and you Paul lovers wail that any attempt to stop that is a war crime akin to the Rape of Nanking. You deny Israel even the basic right to live unmolested and then have the gall to say…

oh no.. you don’t really hate the jooos.. just the ones who don’t want to die by Arab hands offend you.

choad.

mark81150 on May 28, 2012 at 7:24 PM

iwasbornwithit on May 28, 2012 at 7:14 PM

My husband-a CHRISTIAN former USMC Marine-thinks that I’m a patriot-and that you’re a typical Ronbot idiot.
Smart man.

annoyinglittletwerp on May 28, 2012 at 7:25 PM

Rebar on May 28, 2012 at 7:14 PM

So instead of admitting that you were lying/uninformed about whether RP “suspended” his campaign, you try to change the parameters to just TX. Even then your statement is not true as there is plenty of grassroots campaigning going on there even though the campaign has chosen not to spend any money trying to win the primary there.

iwasbornwithit on May 28, 2012 at 7:27 PM

mark81150 on May 28, 2012 at 7:24 PM

Unlike many of the Ronbots-I actually did try to serve my country. I enlisted in the USMC in 1988 and washed out of bootcamp the spring of ’89 due to a coordination problem

annoyinglittletwerp on May 28, 2012 at 7:28 PM

I would examine the issues and support which ever nation I believed was more in the right.

annoyinglittletwerp on May 28, 2012 at 6:42 PM

Oh my. I don’t think anything else really needs to be said, unfortunately. Sad.

Firefly_76 on May 28, 2012 at 7:29 PM

iwasbornwithit on May 28, 2012 at 7:27 PM

All the word games in the world, doesn’t change the fact that Ron Paul cannot even win his home state. Last primary, he couldn’t even break 5% in Texas – the folks who know him the best.

Lets see if he can break single digits this time – doubt it.

Rebar on May 28, 2012 at 7:30 PM

I would examine the issues and support which ever nation I believed was more in the right.

I was born in Iowa. Last time I looked-it wasn’t part of Israel.

annoyinglittletwerp on May 28, 2012 at 6:42 PM

Wow. An amazing admission from the self-proclaimed zionist/”patriot”.

Thanks for letting us know how deep your patriotism truly is.

iwasbornwithit on May 28, 2012 at 7:14 PM

and when the US went to war with Iraq… which side did you support?

If you railed against the US position.. proclaimed it the evil neo-con dream war that Paulians love to spout off about..

How is your patriotism any different than hers?

Except Israel is a democracy with freedom and individual rights.. and Iraq was a bloody thug dictatorship..

morally.. she comes out a tad higher than you if you railed against the US in Iraq.

mark81150 on May 28, 2012 at 7:31 PM

Firefly_76 on May 28, 2012 at 7:29 PM

So it’s sad that I’m not a blind follower and have the ability to think critically?
Only if you’re a ronbot.

annoyinglittletwerp on May 28, 2012 at 7:33 PM

I don’t have a problem with his fiscal policies. I do have a problem with his dancing around the issue of his racist newsletters, his anti-Israel attitude, his moral relativism regarding Islamic terror (i.e. it’s our fault because we just keep bombing them!), his isolationism and his far left foreign policies. Apart from his economic views, Cindy Sheehan could comfortably vote for Ron Paul.

Laura Curtis on May 28, 2012 at 1:35 PM

Agreed.

davidk on May 28, 2012 at 7:34 PM

Great.. another anti-semitic ….

You ever wear the uniform to defend this country yourself? Or is that something you only demand of others while you sit back and whine about those evil neo-cons?

mark81150 on May 28, 2012 at 7:24 PM

There was nothing anti-semitic in my post. What is wrong with you? ALT ADMITS that she doesn’t know who she would side with if the US and Israel went to war. I’m sorry that offends me deeply as a veteran of Bosnia and Iraq. Yeah, that’s right dipstick, I was in Iraq in 2003-2004 so I guess I’m allowed to have an opinion now? Oh wait. Tell me that I’m lying on Memorial Day. Please confirm to me how despicable you really are.

ALT is also particularly reprehensible as she has accused all Paul supporters of being anti-semitic and white supremacists. Of course, you probably agree with her because that means you don’t have to actually argue foreign policy. You can just race bait and avoid real discussion.

iwasbornwithit on May 28, 2012 at 7:34 PM

mark81150 on May 28, 2012 at 7:24 PM

Jokes on you tin foil. As long as our tax dollars are used to fund a needless war, you will continue to hear from us. And guess what?? There is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

Uppereastside on May 28, 2012 at 7:38 PM

iwasbornwithit on May 28, 2012 at 7:34 PM

Had I not washed out of the USMC I would have served in Gulf I. I tried to get back in the military before I was PMR’d-twice.
DO NOT question my patriotism you piece of sh*t!

annoyinglittletwerp on May 28, 2012 at 7:38 PM

and when the US went to war with Iraq… which side did you support?

If you railed against the US position.. proclaimed it the evil neo-con dream war that Paulians love to spout off about..

How is your patriotism any different than hers?

Except Israel is a democracy with freedom and individual rights.. and Iraq was a bloody thug dictatorship..

morally.. she comes out a tad higher than you if you railed against the US in Iraq.

mark81150 on May 28, 2012 at 7:31 PM

When the US went to war with Iraq, I volunteered to go overseas in the middle of law school and I ended up losing a job that I would have gotten had I graduated on time. Thanks for questioning my “patriotism” on that subject though. Obviously, after being deployed and seeing that we ultimately accomplished jack-s***, my views on the issue changed.

iwasbornwithit on May 28, 2012 at 7:38 PM

Roll ‘em and smoke ‘em…if you got ‘em

KOOLAID2 on May 28, 2012 at 1:32 PM

And that was before my first post which was in no way insulting. So tell me again how you are “certain” that I started the insults?

iwasbornwithoutit on May 28, 2012 at 5:59 PM

…find that insulting?

KOOLAID2 on May 28, 2012 at 7:39 PM

It sometimes seems like the anti-semite card is to the political right what the racism card is to the political left.

You can criticize China, Iran, Mexico, Canada, Pakistan, and pretty much all of Europe all day long without being accused of bigotry. But the slightest bit of criticism or expression of relative indifference directed towards Israel, and you’re suddenly a raging anti-semite? Interesting.

That being said, foreign aid is a minor issue anyway, especially in this year’s election. Whether you support aid to Israel or not, I doubt you’re going to hear much on this topic during the presidential race. It is now, and will remain, all about the economy.

humili mente on May 28, 2012 at 7:39 PM

Had I not washed out of the USMC I would have served in Gulf I. I tried to get back in the military before I was PMR’d-twice.
DO NOT question my patriotism you piece of sh*t!

annoyinglittletwerp on May 28, 2012 at 7:38 PM

Whatever. If if if. I actually did serve so I could care less about your pathetic oft-regurgitated story about how you washed out of boot camp.

You questioned your patriotism with your own statement. Sorry you don’t recognize that.

iwasbornwithit on May 28, 2012 at 7:41 PM

Firefly_76 on May 28, 2012 at 7:29 PM
So it’s sad that I’m not a blind follower and have the ability to think critically?
Only if you’re a ronbot.
annoyinglittletwerp on May 28, 2012 at 7:33 PM

Strikingly similar to a response you might hear from a 9-11 truther. The real fun starts if you’d have this same critical thinking if the US and Iran went to war.

aryeung on May 28, 2012 at 7:43 PM

All that said, I urge our media friends to examine the default position that government is good and invite them to think for themselves. The Ron Paul revolution offers the media, the Republican Party and America that opportunity. Take it.

Just because Paul has some ideas worth considering, he is indeed a nut job with utterly stupid ideas as well. His appeal comes from potheads, not people who think that becoming isolationist is a damned good idea.

Happy Nomad on May 28, 2012 at 7:44 PM

KOOLAID2 on May 28, 2012 at 7:39 PM

Honestly, not really even though I don’t smoke pot. But I’m sure that some people do. The pot-smoking thing gets old but it is not nearly as offensive as the anti-semitism and racist charges. It was just another thing to throw on the pile. No worries.

iwasbornwithit on May 28, 2012 at 7:44 PM

avoid real discussion.

iwasbornwithit on May 28, 2012 at 7:34 PM

Avoid real discussion, about what exactly?

Your guy lost. And not by a little bit, he lost in a landslide. People are toying with you, because you’re so lost in your cult of personality, you cannot see the plain blinding truth right in front of your nose – your guy lost.

The same debate tactics you’re using now, made your guy lose in 2008, the same debate tactics you’re using now, made your guy lose in 2012. Why you think continuing the same thing now – when there is mathematically no chance whatsoever – is a source of amusment to people who are, to put it bluntly: sane.

Do yourself a favor – stop. My guy lost, am I engaging in endless fabrications and lies to get people to still vote for Newt? Nope, he lost, it happens. Ron Paul lost, that’s it.

Let. It. Go.

Rebar on May 28, 2012 at 7:44 PM

annoyinglittletwerp on May 28, 2012 at 7:28 PM

You made the effort.. took the oath.. and that matters. No Paul worshiper sneering at us for supporting our friends.. I support Britain.. Australia and New Zealand too.. English speaking democracies I would fight for. They do not understand the benefit of alliances for mutual defense.. mindless.. all that matters to them is they have the default setting of hate Israel….. and if Iran gets the Obama sanctioned Nuke.. which Paul has said they have every right to have.. and nuke Tel Aviv..

what would they say the?

nothing maybe.. but a lot of smirking.

Then cries no no.. don’t retaliate against Iran.. those damn Zionists had it coming.. They are as predictable as Cancer.. and just as malignant.

No one.. who stood against their own country at war.. stood against the United States has a damned moral thing to say about your comment.. a hypothetical.. which has no cost..

They chose the other side in a real war.. damned their own country and countrymen..

we know damn well their patriotism is highly conditional. Predicated on wether enemy boots are actually on US soil before they would act.

but any sane American would rather keep the battle outside the US.. the Paulians have the strategic sense of a goat.

and as for the founders being all Libertarians..

how many believed in witchcraft and that the nonwhites were subhuman?.. They were 18th century men.. do not read 21st century sensibilities into them unless you want to look like a fool when all they notions of their time come out.

mark81150 on May 28, 2012 at 7:47 PM

My husband-a CHRISTIAN former USMC Marine

annoyinglittletwerp on May 28, 2012 at 7:25 PM

Isn’t “USMC Marine” a tad redundant?

Happy Nomad on May 28, 2012 at 7:47 PM

Laura Curtis

I left a comment on your blog re: Universalism.

davidk on May 28, 2012 at 7:48 PM

I see Ron Paul threads are always a source of calumnies and poorly considered remarks. I doubt his followers are around to promote the worst ideas from his newsletters and anddefense non-defense.. By 2016, Rand will have a better Paul 2.0 to offer or fail as a candidate.

WhatNot on May 28, 2012 at 7:49 PM

Isn’t “USMC Marine” a tad redundant?

Happy Nomad on May 28, 2012 at 7:47 PM

One could be a Merchant Marine marine, I suppose.

davidk on May 28, 2012 at 7:50 PM

Let. It. Go.

Rebar on May 28, 2012 at 7:44 PM

…*whispers*…thank you!

KOOLAID2 on May 28, 2012 at 7:51 PM

Lets see if he can break single digits this time – doubt it.

Rebar on May 28, 2012 at 7:30 PM

Care to wager? If you win I will state how awesome Newt’s moon colony idea is and how it is entirely fiscally responsible. If I win you have to post about how our foreign policy is immoral and unconstitutional and Ron Paul’s got it right.

iwasbornwithit on May 28, 2012 at 7:52 PM

Do yourself a favor – stop. My guy lost, am I engaging in endless fabrications and lies to get people to still vote for Newt? Nope, he lost, it happens. Ron Paul lost, that’s it.

Let. It. Go.

Rebar on May 28, 2012 at 7:44 PM

This….it’s called common sense…

Tim Zank on May 28, 2012 at 7:53 PM

If I win you have to post about how our foreign policy is immoral and unconstitutional and Ron Paul’s got it right.

iwasbornwithit on May 28, 2012 at 7:52 PM

Wait, you want me to lie?

Why would you want me to do that?

Rebar on May 28, 2012 at 7:54 PM

davidk on May 28, 2012 at 7:50 PM

The Brits have Marines as well.

annoyinglittletwerp on May 28, 2012 at 7:54 PM

Whatever. If if if. I actually did serve so I could care less about your pathetic oft-regurgitated story about how you washed out of boot camp.

You questioned your patriotism with your own statement. Sorry you don’t recognize that.

iwasbornwithit on May 28, 2012 at 7:41 PM

Twerp is quite capable of defending herself. But I’m old school and become a bit upset when some head-in-the-orifice jerk disparages a woman, especially one who demeans her service to our country.

She answered the call.

davidk on May 28, 2012 at 7:56 PM

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