Video: Why the Euro has stalled

posted at 6:01 pm on May 27, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

In his latest Afterburner series, Bill Whittle offers a couple of themes warning about the severe turbulence in the Eurozone and the increasingly likely crash of its common currency.  Bill, a pilot himself, discusses the crash of an Airbus into the south Atlantic a few years ago as a parable for excessive shielding of critical signals, and the resulting disunity and counterproductive approaches that follow from it:

Frankly, the information on the Air France crash is rather unnerving.  I hadn’t heard those details before now, but it sounds like a great reason to stick with Boeing when possible.  It works well as an analogy in this case, though, and perhaps in a few others.  For instance, the problem in rapidly-rising health-care costs is a combination of technological advances that are difficult to comprehend, a legal atmosphere that forces providers to practice defensive medicine unnecessarily, and the shielding of price signals from consumers by the presence of third-party payers.  Because we don’t see the problems clearly, we respond in irrational ways — and because we tend to fear what we don’t comprehend, we’re reacting by making the third-party payer and signal-shielding issues worse instead of better.

Europe has a reason for the disunity, which goes to the core of their experiment: multiple sovereign nations managing a single currency.  Germans end up having to suffer the consequences of irresponsibility in Greece, Spain, and France without having any real political power to prevent or punish it, short of pulling out of the euro.  That has always been the rot at the center of the euro, and it was just a matter of time until it became a critical problem.  The only way the euro would work in the long run would have been a federalization of Europe into one sovereign entity, an outcome that its peoples clearly do not want and which European language and cultural barriers wouldn’t allow even if popular sentiment supported unification initially.  The UK looks like the most brilliant nation in Europe for its longstanding and prescient Euro skepticism.

The US doesn’t have that problem with the dollar; we just have the same sense of unreality and problems reading the signals.  We can act to prevent the dollar’s stall that will surely come when the entitlement collapse arrives.  The only question is whether we will.


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ummmm… Because it is based on socialist unicorn farts?

novaculus on May 27, 2012 at 6:05 PM

The Euro was conceived of, for the most part, as an attack on the dominance of the US dollar. Eurotrash used to be proud to proclaim that fact loudly. They’ve since quieted down about it, but hold no illusions as to why the Euro came about and was forced on their populations even though anyone with a brain knew it was an unbelievably dumb idea. The attack on the US dollar via the Euro is the gratitude of Old Europe. Thanks, guys.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on May 27, 2012 at 6:21 PM

Whittle is interesting, as always. I wasn’t aware of the results of the Air France crash investigation either. How is a problem like that not discovered in flight sims during development and corrected?

As for the Euro Union, that was like building a plane out of parts that happened to be at hand, then loading everyone aboard and taking her up.

Who needs test flights? What could go wrong?

Oh, wait…

novaculus on May 27, 2012 at 6:25 PM

Paris Air Show in the 1980′s;
Airbus files into the trees.

Why?

Because the plane was smarter than the pilot who determined he was in a power curve and about to hit the trees. The pilot shoved the throttles to the stops and the plane said, “Wait a minute, that much power too soon and you may damage something, we’ll spool up at a more reasonable rate. And fly into the trees.”

jaydee_007 on May 27, 2012 at 6:25 PM

Germans end up having to suffer the consequences of irresponsibility in Greece, Spain, and France without having any real political power to prevent or punish it, short of pulling out of the euro. That has always been the rot at the center of the euro, and it was just a matter of time until it became a critical problem.

Yup. They had unrealistic expectations of member states as well. Not everybody does what they say they will. I read a piece in the NYTimes (got there by accident from a Drudge link) that narrated how people in Europe are migrating their savings to the UK.

Things are looking very shaky there at the moment and we’re going to feel the effects of that.

dogsoldier on May 27, 2012 at 6:28 PM

The UK looks like the most brilliant nation in Europe for its longstanding and prescient Euro skepticism.

It wasn’t by accident that the little island nation once ruled the waves and built itself a worldwide empire. For a time, they had some smarts.

AZCoyote on May 27, 2012 at 6:29 PM

How is a problem like that not discovered in flight sims during development and corrected?

Lack of thorough Quality Assurance. Testing. Hmmmmm that QA think may have been a good idea for the Euro too. Depending on who does the testing and how.

dogsoldier on May 27, 2012 at 6:31 PM

How is a problem like that not discovered in flight sims during development and corrected?

Lack of thorough Quality Assurance. Testing. Hmmmmm that QA think may have been a good idea for the Euro too. Depending on who does the testing and how.

dogsoldier on May 27, 2012 at 6:31 PM

If you’ll note from my post above it was discovered as an issue in front of the entire Avation World.

Like liberalism not trusing the individual, not trusting the pilot is not considered a bug, it’s a Feature.

jaydee_007 on May 27, 2012 at 6:37 PM

The Euro was conceived of, for the most part, as an attack on the dominance of the US dollar.

SPOT ON!!

It was economic war and we should not let up until total and unconditional surrender.

jukin3 on May 27, 2012 at 6:42 PM

The Greeks have not forgiven the Germans for what they did in Crete. The prospect of being owned by them must be a hard pill to swallow, but their downfall is their own design.

EnglishRogue on May 27, 2012 at 6:45 PM

The euro was created as a stepping stone towards the ultimate goal of the EU, which is to create a united states of europe. It was created by anti-American leftists that hoped a USE would be able to overtake the US as the worlds superpower. I’ve got family in the UK and they absolutely despise the EU.

steve123 on May 27, 2012 at 6:47 PM

The difference between the Air France crash and the current Euro crisis centering around Greece is the third pilot on the Airbus wasn’t deliberately trying to do the wrong thing because he was mad at the other two pilots — he froze and had the throttle in the counter-position by accident. In the case of Greece, it’s not that their potential new socialist leaders think following Paul Krugman’s advice and spending like a drunken sailor is going to cure the problem. They don’t care about the problem — they just want to pander to the something-for-nothing crowd and throw a big Euro-covered middle finger at the Germans who are trying to get Greece to pull the throttle in the other direction.

jon1979 on May 27, 2012 at 6:47 PM

Side note Bill is now doing a ustream show on Tuesday nights.

The Right Scoop has been posting them.

mad saint jack on May 27, 2012 at 6:49 PM

The only way the euro would work in the long run would have been a federalization of Europe into one sovereign entity, an outcome that its peoples clearly do not want

Ed,

This has ALWAYS been the goal of the European “Project” and the will of the people has never mattered to the planners. The vast majority of the power structure is appointed and not elected. Heck, Ted Heath had the UK join the EEC without a plebiscite. The rest as they say is history.

And the EU “Project” people, desperately hoping their superstate might still survive, are pushing harder than ever to create a monolith that would effectively end national sovereignty for each country.

CorporatePiggy on May 27, 2012 at 6:53 PM

Well done, Bill. The back side of the power curve. Probably the single most important thing I learned in my adult life, never mind while getting my pilot’s license. Solution–fly to where your power is while you still have time. If you do still have time.

vityas on May 27, 2012 at 6:53 PM

As a Boeing pilot I find Mr. Whittle’s assessment to be spot on re the aircraft but both the combined nations of Europe and the US are like addicted gamblers, hoping that the next poker game or slot machine will pay off. As for tenured and Nobel-prized nit-wits like Krugman; they should be beaten half to death with a bag of Euro coins.

LizardLips on May 27, 2012 at 6:56 PM

Ed,

This has ALWAYS been the goal of the European “Project” and the will of the people has never mattered to the planners.

CorporatePiggy on May 27, 2012 at 6:53 PM

It’s even worse than that. They were specifically antagonistic to the people. The EU Constitution spectacularly failed every referendum they allowed (the people voting gave much different results than the various parliaments deciding for the people) so they stopped allowing votes and changed the Constitution to the Lisbon Treaty (LOL) and just shoved it through in that particularly underhanded way.

The whole process was beyond pathetic from start to finish – which won’t be long off, now.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on May 27, 2012 at 6:59 PM

The UK looks like the most brilliant nation in Europe for its longstanding and prescient Euro skepticism.

It wasn’t by accident that the little island nation once ruled the waves and built itself a worldwide empire. For a time, they had some smarts.

AZCoyote on May 27, 2012 at 6:29 PM

How many times has that 21-mile-wide strip of ocean saved England from Continental Europe’s insanity?

But, as Margaret Thatcher tried so hard to explain, once Briton welded their economy to the Euro, they basically gave up the shield that had saved them countless times before.

logis on May 27, 2012 at 7:03 PM

Austerity horrifies them; risk and competition horrify them. Most of Europe wants and deserves to be treated like indentured servants. I heard an interesting quip the other day in the wake of the French elections: Germany nearly ruined Europe twice trying to conquer it; now they could do so without a shot fired and they aren’t interested.

Can’t wait for billwhittle.net to hit the presses.

http://www.fiscalwars.wordpress.com

stout77 on May 27, 2012 at 7:04 PM

Here’s an interesting article on what happened in the cockpit of that Air France jet that crashed, if anyone is interested.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/aviation/crashes/what-really-happened-aboard-air-france-447-6611877-2

AZCoyote on May 27, 2012 at 7:07 PM

As a Boeing pilot I find Mr. Whittle’s assessment to be spot on re the aircraft but both the combined nations of Europe and the US are like addicted gamblers, hoping that the next poker game or slot machine will pay off. As for tenured and Nobel-prized nit-wits like Krugman; they should be beaten half to death with a bag of Euro coins.

LizardLips on May 27, 2012 at 6:56 PM

Krugman will have his own Mt. Rushmore in China if he ever gets his way. Hey, I seem to remember watching something about these pitot tubes and being frozen by super-cooled water or something to that effect. Do all commercial aircraft rely on these things?

stout77 on May 27, 2012 at 7:08 PM

Ed, Bill Whittle has it exactly right about the Airbus family of planes from the A320 series, A330, A340 and A380. These are fly by computer airplanes, and the computers are the arbitrator. When I’m stuck flying on a 2rd world airline I’d rather be on one of these, because the computers are more likely override a bad decision by a badly trained or inexperienced pilot.

I’m still more comfortable flying on one of those whipped old DC-9′s that Delta inherited from Northwest, than an A320, simply because I trust the pilot far more than I do a computer. Some of the flight systems on the A380 actually run under the overhead of a Windows OS, does that make anyone feel better?

“Windows has encountered a fatal error” with a button reading “OK?” Tells me to stay away from that model, among other reasons.

I’ll stick with Boeing planes when I have a choice.

simkeith on May 27, 2012 at 7:11 PM

That austerity thingy is oh, so…. 1920s.

viking01 on May 27, 2012 at 7:12 PM

“Windows has encountered a fatal error” with a button reading “OK?” Tells me to stay away from that model, among other reasons.

simkeith on May 27, 2012 at 7:11 PM

On the bright side the pilot does have the option to send feedback to Microsoft on the error to correct the software problem during the downward spiral.

viking01 on May 27, 2012 at 7:17 PM

However, we in the U.S. with our own single currency are in good shape beause we can continue to print money to repay debt with devalued dollars. Wut?

a capella on May 27, 2012 at 7:19 PM

Our future Chinese overlords must be watching with amusement as Western nations destroy themselves with debt. They are learning what not to do in the future. It seems that the more socialism fails the more academics and idiots, France, try to breath new life into it…Greece is but the canary in the coal mine for Western governments that have made trillions of dollars/euros in promises that they can’t keep. We in the United States, like Greece, are going to learn the hard way that funding enormous welfare states with government bonds/IOUs is a recipe for disaster…Today, the bond vigilantes have the euro as a play-toy. Tomorrow it will be the dollar.

Nozzle on May 27, 2012 at 7:20 PM

What we are re-learning in harsh measure is the simple axiom that the more people are given, the more exempt of responsibility their lives become, the greater the disaster.

The Germans are fed up, really fed up, they’re not interested in footing the bill with their citizens hard work and their natural frugality while many others squander, laze and demand.

Its the same immorality that destroyed the Mayflower compact almost four centuries ago, and its why the Euro’s remained behind while we prospered beyond anything the Europeans could ever dream of.

Speakup on May 27, 2012 at 7:24 PM

Germany nearly ruined Europe twice trying to conquer it; now they could do so without a shot fired and they aren’t interested.

stout77 on May 27, 2012 at 7:04 PM

Europe isn’t worth conquering anymore.

In a few generations the whole thing will belong to the muslems anyway, so I think it’s great that the former owners of the continent are handing the new owners a huge bag of poverty.

Rebar on May 27, 2012 at 7:29 PM

Two reasons

1. taxes aren’t high enough
2. not enough central power.

tom daschle concerned on May 27, 2012 at 7:30 PM

I’m so glad I don’t have to fly anymore!

Once we get the Euro-Commie out of office, the better.

Kini on May 27, 2012 at 7:35 PM

Ted Heath had the UK join the EEC without a plebiscite. The rest as they say is history.

CorporatePiggy on May 27, 2012 at 6:53 PM

Well, he had to do something, otherwise he would have just been another Obama!/

OldEnglish on May 27, 2012 at 7:36 PM

Bill W. (over at PJM) is one of my very favorites in the new, alternate (i.e. anti-commie/socialist) media now available on the internet. He is the exact opposite of a guy like B. Obama, not just because he is the ideological flip side of the man, but because his mind is so sharp and so substantively retentive. He would absolutely crush The One in an open debate on sound U.S. policy options.

Bill KNOWS what he thinks about things, while Obama kinda understands what is rattling about in his head, but he needs a teleprompter to communicate those synaptic expressions to the public at large.

minnesoter on May 27, 2012 at 7:38 PM

Isn’t this the way things always happen in history? True surprises are rare. Any observant person can see what’s coming: the war, the depression, the decline and fall. There you are, knee deep in information, and you won’t take action to avert the disaster. The name for such a state is decadence.

There’s time to recover here in America; not much, but there is still some time left. It’s going to take extraordinary and heroic actions like that of the 1st Minnesota on July 2, 1863. Recovery is not possible in Europe. Decadence is too far advanced.

spiritof61 on May 27, 2012 at 7:46 PM

Germany nearly ruined Europe twice trying to conquer it; now they could do so without a shot fired and they aren’t interested.

stout77 on May 27, 2012 at 7:04 PM

Europe isn’t worth conquering anymore.

In a few generations the whole thing will belong to the muslems anyway, so I think it’s great that the former owners of the continent are handing the new owners a huge bag of poverty.

Rebar on May 27, 2012 at 7:29 PM

Funny you should say that – I’m an appraiser and if I was tasked with estimating the market value of Europe without Germany, that would be a good indication that it’s worth nothing or less. You might even have to pay a prospective buyer to remediate the site. Europeans are essentially squatters on contaminated, foreclosed property.

stout77 on May 27, 2012 at 7:53 PM

Bill W. (over at PJM) is one of my very favorites in the new, alternate (i.e. anti-commie/socialist) media now available on the internet. He is the exact opposite of a guy like B. Obama, not just because he is the ideological flip side of the man, but because his mind is so sharp and so substantively retentive. He would absolutely crush The One in an open debate on sound U.S. policy options.

Bill KNOWS what he thinks about things, while Obama kinda understands what is rattling about in his head, but he needs a teleprompter to communicate those synaptic expressions to the public at large.

minnesoter on May 27, 2012 at 7:38 PM

Whittle is sharp as a tack. I think he is re-launching his website soon. The only thing not to like about him is that he’s too scarce!!

stout77 on May 27, 2012 at 7:57 PM

Whittle is sharp as a tack. I think he is re-launching his website soon. The only thing not to like about him is that he’s too scarce!!

stout77 on May 27, 2012 at 7:57 PM

Go to: http://www.pjtv.com/ Enjoy.

minnesoter on May 27, 2012 at 8:02 PM

I think a closer analogy would be the design of the Space Shuttle. Despite several horrible disasters that underlined the basic design flaws inherent in the program, the government plodded on ahead, because they had already spent too much money pretending the basic systems were “safe.”

DarthBrooks on May 27, 2012 at 8:14 PM

Bill W. (over at PJM) is one of my very favorites in the new, alternate (i.e. anti-commie/socialist) media now available on the internet. He is the exact opposite of a guy like B. Obama, not just because he is the ideological flip side of the man, but because his mind is so sharp and so substantively retentive. He would absolutely crush The One in an open debate on sound U.S. policy options.

Bill KNOWS what he thinks about things, while Obama kinda understands what is rattling about in his head, but he needs a teleprompter to communicate those synaptic expressions to the public at large.

minnesoter on May 27, 2012 at 7:38 PM

Bill Whittle is a former liberal who, when faced with the obvious lies, half-truths, race-baiting, utter dishonesty of the left,

……punched out.*

I remember his old site “Eject, Eject, Eject” very well. A very honest man who saw the light and didn’t try to delude himself.

*-For those not familiar, military slang for hitting the ejection seat/face curtain/lever. Ejecting from an aircraft.

98ZJUSMC on May 27, 2012 at 8:19 PM

Whittle’s 2005 essay Tribes” is a must-read for anyone not familiary with his previous work through his own website Eject! Eject! Eject! This essay pulls no punches, includes some unfortunate NSFW verbage, and it tells the absolute truth of how liberty is won and maintained.

May a thousand more Bill Whittle’s come out of the woodwork and begin producing honest media about this nation, the world, and liberty.

Freelancer on May 27, 2012 at 8:45 PM

Whittle’s 2005 essay “Tribes” is a must-read for anyone not familiary with his previous work through his own website Eject! Eject! Eject! This essay pulls no punches, includes some unfortunate NSFW verbage, and it tells the absolute truth of how liberty is won and maintained.

May a thousand more Bill Whittle’s come out of the woodwork and begin producing honest media about this nation, the world, and liberty.

Freelancer on May 27, 2012 at 8:45 PM

Amen.

tdau1997 on May 27, 2012 at 9:11 PM

Nozzle on May 27, 2012 at 7:20 PM

…Right on…right on…right on!

KOOLAID2 on May 27, 2012 at 9:13 PM

Euro = New World Order

dom89031 on May 27, 2012 at 9:39 PM

Texas is like Germany, California is Greece and
New York is Italy. The US has the same problems
but we will all go down the drain together.

redguy on May 27, 2012 at 9:43 PM

I hadn’t heard those details before now, but it sounds like a great reason to stick with Boeing when possible.

Unfortunately for frequent fliers, it’s not viable- too many US airlines operate both Airbus and Boeing jets. I’d rather fly Boeing but even if it’s relatively safer than Airbus, the overall safety record of both airlines is very high- certainly safer than driving.

bayam on May 27, 2012 at 10:15 PM

Concentrated CONTEMPT for the Sacrifices Made By Loving Humans:

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finkelstein/2012/05/27/chris-hayes-im-uncomfortable-calling-fallen-military-heroes#ixzz1w6mBDLvo

williamg on May 27, 2012 at 11:16 PM

Krugman will have his own Mt. Rushmore in China if he ever gets his way. Hey, I seem to remember watching something about these pitot tubes and being frozen by super-cooled water or something to that effect. Do all commercial aircraft rely on these things?

stout77 on May 27, 2012 at 7:08 PM

The Pitot tube is a device that mesures the Ram Air Pressure of an aircraft moving forward. It gives essential information regarding the Indicated Airspeed (which has nothing to do with ground speed or actual speed of the aircraft through the air which can be mesured by GPS and other devices), a value that will be different regarding what altitude an aircraft is at.

That combined with the angle of attack of the wing determines if you are in a Stall Condition. (Hollywood aside, the engine of an aircraft does not stall, only the wing stalls.) In a stall condition the wing ceases to produce lift, and must be placed at an angle of attack that will regain the proper direction of airflow to creat lift once again.

So, yes, they still rely on Pitot Tubes.

jaydee_007 on May 27, 2012 at 11:22 PM

Two points:
1. “Austerity horrifies them…” Believe it or not, an interviewee on NPR recently spilled the beans on this one. None of the austerity measures in any Euro country have even kicked in yet. They are all scheduled future spending reductions.

2. Quoth the late noble Neptunus Lex:
“Push the stick forward and the houses get bigger. Pull the stick back and the houses get smaller. But hold it back too long, and they start getting bigger again!”

drunyan8315 on May 28, 2012 at 12:23 AM

The Euro is indeed a lot like the Airbus – it is designed to do everything correctly, but has no means to determine when everything isn’t going according to plan.

As long as all the member states behaved themselves with a minimal degree of fiscal responsibility, the euro would be fine. When they failed to do this, the euro was in trouble and had no mechanism to fix itself.

Greece was never even able to enact the original “austerity” measures from the original bailout over two years ago. They haven’t collected roughly a third of their taxes since the military government – small businesses and retail taxes just never get paid, they have no way of enforcing compliance and the slightest indication they would cut back on full retirement at age 50 drove them into the streets in protest.

It was obvious from the beginning there was no way to keep them in the euro, but the ECB and other banks holding Greek debt that will inevitably be worthless were determined to put off the day of reckoning at any cost, and the costs have been considerable, although predictably ineffective.

Greece has no better course than to ditch the euro, accept devaluation and some tough times with the chance of eventually coming out of it. That was evident over two years ago.

Adjoran on May 28, 2012 at 1:39 AM

If I were German and living in Germany, I’d be really p*ssed. Germany needs to save itself and let the socialists fend for themselves.

petefrt on May 28, 2012 at 6:07 AM

“This video is currently unavailable”?

oldleprechaun on May 28, 2012 at 7:11 AM

As a point of interest:

“This video is currently unavailable”

is the message I got for every video of Mr. Whittle’s that I just tried viewing on YouTube. Anyone else having this problem?

oldleprechaun on May 28, 2012 at 7:14 AM

brings to mind the famous old line:

“If it aint Boeing..I aint going.”

lostinjrz on May 28, 2012 at 7:43 AM

This is only one of the many problems with the EU. When that freak Charles de Gaule set this monster into motion, he envisioned not just European countries being included, but also Muslim countries from the ME and n.Africa. (He thought there would be some economic advantages to that, and France still had some colonies in n.Africa at the time.) As part of that scheme, the Bureaucratic Union ended up importing its own sworn enemies! This is why the Muslim population in Europe has gone from about zero percent just 40 years ago, to skyrocketing populations today. Nice going Messieurs! That plan is still in motion. Euro-Med alliance?? Hello???

WhatSlushfund on May 28, 2012 at 7:59 AM

There are not enough Bil Whittles in important and influential positions to save this Republic.

Dammit, we’re gonna crash.

Cleombrotus on May 28, 2012 at 8:01 AM

When my wife and I visited Europe in 2004, we struck up a conversation with an American who spent much of his time in Europe working as a consultant. Our conversation took place two days before the Netherlands and France were to vote on the European constitution. He seemed to know something about what made Europe tick so I asked if he thought it would pass and, without hesitation, he said “no.” Why? He said Europeans hate each other — the French hate the Germans, the English hate the French, and so on. He was right. The measure failed and to this day, that gentleman’s comment is still prescient. There is no European constitution and the Euro is circling the drain.

spamis on May 28, 2012 at 9:45 AM

Airbuses are fine, as long as they’re within the envelope. Sully landed in spite of the Airbus, not because. And for over a decade I refused to fly in anything because of the pencil-whipping that I witnessed in maintenance. Being vindicated with a couple blown up engines on the test cell does nothing to dispel the dread. after another decade of reluctant flying, I’m just resigned to it; you’re going to go when it’s your time.

Vis a vis the euro, just a matter of time. The Germans may as well just get over it and bring back the Mark.

AH_C on May 28, 2012 at 10:25 AM

Paris Air Show in the 1980′s;
Airbus files into the trees.

And then somebody evidently switched the “black box” recorders from the plane after the accident in order to frame the pilot for the crash.

Socratease on May 28, 2012 at 11:44 AM

ems that the more socialism fails the more academics and idiots, France, try to breath new life into it…

Nozzle on May 27, 2012 at 7:20 PM

Department of Redundancy Dept.

squint on May 28, 2012 at 1:58 PM

Germans end up having to suffer the consequences of irresponsibility in Greece, Spain, and France without having any real political power to prevent or punish it, short of pulling out of the euro. That has always been the rot at the center of the euro, and it was just a matter of time until it became a critical problem.

Same problem here in America. The takers and parasites take from the producers and the only recourse for the producers is to either stop producing or become law breakers and tell the parasites and their law making buddies to F*** OFF!!!
Europe and especially Germany is at that point.
I read where many Germans are thinking “Why the hell am I working 40+ hours so some Greek civil servant can retire at 52 with full pay and benefits?”
I remember a scene from Animal Planet where a German Shepherd was tick infested. She was anemic almost to the point of death.
As Ross Perot once said “Comes a point where the tick becomes bigger than the dog.”

Amendment X on May 28, 2012 at 2:10 PM

An AOA indicator would have given an unequivocal indication of a stall…Anyone know if the Airbus has an AOA indicator? Navy and Marine jet pilots fly the AOA on every approach. It’s a better indicator of what the airplane is doing relative to stall speed and optimal landing attitude.

Nozzle on May 28, 2012 at 5:23 PM

I saw a great movie last night called “Germany Year Zero.” It was filmed in Berlin in 1948. It depicted what everyday Germans had to do to survive in their bombed out capital immediately following the end of WWII. No, Germans were not alone among Europeans in living thru extreme hardship both during and after the war. The movie however gives us a window into that particular time and place…Seeing that movie and knowing much of the history of the war and its aftermath, we shouldn’t be surprised that Germany is not in favor of spending hundreds of billions of euros to prop up sloth, waste and corruption.

Nozzle on May 28, 2012 at 5:34 PM

An AOA indicator would have given an unequivocal indication of a stall…Anyone know if the Airbus has an AOA indicator? Navy and Marine jet pilots fly the AOA on every approach. It’s a better indicator of what the airplane is doing relative to stall speed and optimal landing attitude.

Nozzle on May 28, 2012 at 5:23 PM

An AOA indicator, as I understand how they work, would not have saved the plane from a stall as long as both pilots continued to exert opposite pressure on the control stick and the flight computer had to figure out how to deal with opposite inputs.

gryphon202 on May 28, 2012 at 5:38 PM


An AOA indicator would have given an unequivocal indication of a stall…Anyone know if the Airbus has an AOA indicator? Navy and Marine jet pilots fly the AOA on every approach. It’s a better indicator of what the airplane is doing relative to stall speed and optimal landing attitude.

Nozzle on May 28, 2012 at 5:23 PM

An AOA indicator, as I understand how they work, would not have saved the plane from a stall as long as both pilots continued to exert opposite pressure on the control stick and the flight computer had to figure out how to deal with opposite inputs.

gryphon202 on May 28, 2012 at 5:38 PM

Also note that the AOA sensor is just as subject to icing as a Pitot tube is, and therefore would have been just as unavailable as the IAS needle had the sensor iced up.

I have also not heard of the AOA delivering a valid Vy (Best Rate of Climb) indication for pilots. It does, however, provide Best Angle via TD/Max.

Mind you, AOA would have been completely useless regarding Stall Recovery. What I don’t understand is the fact that the First Lesson always begins with Departure Stall – “Push the NOSE DOWN”
This is an unnatural act with a plane that’s falling like a brick so it stays with any student pilot. NOSE DOWN! NOSE DOWN!

What was that idiot doing pulling back on the stick in a situation that called for NOSE DOWN!

jaydee_007 on May 29, 2012 at 1:16 AM

I don’t know why the quotes above are strikethrough, I did not click on that.

jaydee_007 on May 29, 2012 at 1:17 AM

I know I’m really late, but just had to reply…

Whittle is interesting, as always. I wasn’t aware of the results of the Air France crash investigation either. How is a problem like that not discovered in flight sims during development and corrected?

Who needs test flights? What could go wrong?

novaculus on May 27, 2012 at 6:25 PM

I’m a software developer. The answer to those questions is… “who is doing the testing?”. The problem is with your assumptions. Most of the time, test flights (whether sim or real), are conducted by EXPERTS who test the design of the system. In this case, the real world intruded when an inexperienced “user” (pilot) mishandled the application (plane).

Very few experienced testers can truly simulate an inexperienced user… which is why feedback is so critical in those systems. In the video, Bill explains that the entire reason for the crash is because the French eliminated feedback in the system. If the experienced pilot could feel the resistance caused by the inexperienced pilot, he would have immediately realized what was going on and could have set things right.

Bill is exactly right. The French made the wrong assumptions with Airbus… and the wrong ones now with the Euro and austerity.

dominigan on May 31, 2012 at 1:29 PM