Did the butler really do it?

posted at 3:31 pm on May 26, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

No, seriously — it appears that the butler really did it, at least in the mystery of the Vatican leak case:

The Vatican confirmed Saturday that the pope’s butler had been arrested in its embarrassing leaks scandal, adding a Hollywood twist to an already remarkable tale of power struggles, intrigue and corruption in the highest levels of Catholic Church governance.

Paolo Gabriele, a layman who lives inside Vatican City, was arrested Wednesday with secret documents in his possession and was being held Saturday, the Vatican spokesman the Rev. Federico Lombardi said in a statement.

If so, the butler isn’t the only culprit.  The Vatican bank ousted its president for poor performance, but the Post reports that the termination is tied to the leaks as well.  The leaks involve controversial bank practices at the Vatican, which had been the target of reform efforts over the last several years.  While some of the documents apparently came from the bank, others were personal letters between Pope Benedict XVI and his staff, which would have meant inside-circle access.

The Vatican has already vowed to take legal action against an author of newly-released book, His Holiness, based in significant part on those leaks. The latest leaks seem intended to undermine Benedict’s closest aide, Tarcisio Cardinal Bertone, who currently serves as the Vatican’s Secretary of State.  We’ll see if they have that effect soon enough.  Supposedly, that is how the current Vatican ambassador to the US lost his previous job as a high-ranking administrator in the Vatican, at least according to the Post’s reporting.

As for Gabriele, it will be interesting to see what happens.  The Vatican exists as it own nation-state, and it has its own investigative force, the Corpo della Gendarmeria dello Stato della Città del Vaticano, which basically means the Vatican police (not the Swiss Guard). Vatican law does provide for judicial processes with a judge in a tribunal and an appeals court to handle disputes over trials — but the Supreme Pontiff has jurisdiction over all of these, of course, and it’s his letters that got purloined.

As Reuters notes, this is no joke — Gabriele could get 30 years in prison:

The 46-year-old Gabriele, facing up to 30 years in prison if convicted, lives in a comfortable apartment in the Vatican with his wife and three children, and is said by all who knew him to be very religious.

While Vatican employees do not receive large salaries, they do enjoy benefits such as low rent, no income tax, and cheap food and petrol at the commissaries of the 108-acre city-state.

On papal flights, the handsome, clean-cut Gabriele rarely came into the press section. When he did, he was polite to journalists but resisted any attempt to squeeze information out of him.

A priest who knows Gabriele told the newspaper La Stampa on Saturday that he was “a man of simplicity” who would not have been able to organise a campaign of leaks.

The conclusion to which armchair Columbos might leap is that Gabriele was a patsy in a power play.  That has all the attraction of any conspiracy theory, plus the added benefit of fitting into the few details we know about the leaks and the suspect.  I’d trust the investigators to determine what the actual facts and motives might be, but at some point we will hear from Gabriele, or at least his lawyer and his family, as to his side of the story.  As yet, of course, no one has proven anything about Gabriele’s involvement in the leaks, either.  What we do know is that Gabriele had better get a good lawyer, and his family probably needs to find another place to live.

One final point: This story will undoubtedly embarrass the Vatican and Catholics around the world.  It’s good to remember that Catholics make no claims on personal perfection — not even for the Pope; his infallibility is on doctrine only.  The men and women who work in vocations and lay offices for the Catholic Church in the Vatican and around the world are just as flawed and human as the rest of us, so keep them in prayer so that they can find the strength to overcome those universal frailties and be good stewards of the church. That goes for Paolo Gabriele, too, and especially for his family.


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Catholics versus the Protestant-Atheist Unified Team in 5…4…3…

JimLennon on May 26, 2012 at 3:40 PM

As Reuters notes, this is no joke — Gabriele could get 30 years in prison:

Which w/b mild. Nothing like Judases.

Former Gov. Richardson s/b considered for same ‘punishment’.

Schadenfreude on May 26, 2012 at 3:41 PM

Catholics-bashing in 3, 2, 1…

Schadenfreude on May 26, 2012 at 3:45 PM

“One more thing”…why would he have done it?

Schadenfreude on May 26, 2012 at 3:49 PM

his infallibility is on doctrine only

a deeply and sorely misunderstood fact

Capitalist Hog on May 26, 2012 at 4:05 PM

…not even for the Pope; his infallibility is on doctrine only.

And the Orthodox would dispute even that.

irishspy on May 26, 2012 at 4:09 PM

It’s always sad when you see somebody in a responsible position betrays that trust.

Happy Nomad on May 26, 2012 at 4:16 PM

A priest who knows Gabriele told the newspaper La Stampa on Saturday that he was “a man of simplicity” who would not have been able to organise a campaign of leaks.

How much does it taake to organize a campaign of leaks? Access to sensitive documents is enough when someone else chooses how and when to conduct the campaign.

I call more BS on this than on the pope’s doctrine.

WhatNot on May 26, 2012 at 4:17 PM

The Vatican exists as it own nation-state, and it has its own investigative force, the Corpo della Gendarmeria dello Stato della Città del Vaticano, which basically means the Vatican police (not the Swiss Guard). Vatican law does provide for judicial processes with a judge in a tribunal and an appeals court to handle disputes over trials — but the Supreme Pontiff has jurisdiction over all of these, of course, and it’s his letters that got purloined

The leaks involve controversial bank practices at the Vatican, which had been the target of reform efforts over the last several years.

I guess absolute power really does corrupt absolutely even when you wear the big hat and you’re supposed to be above it all.

MessesWithTexas on May 26, 2012 at 4:26 PM

The Vatican’s financial dealings have always been mired in criminality, corruption, and secrecy.

Leaving aside all the fleecing of ill-educated 3rd world populations and governments, it has always operated as a holy Camorra.

P2 anyone?

Love y’all Catholics but you know it’s true.

CorporatePiggy on May 26, 2012 at 4:35 PM

But to be fair the Vatican does have a lot of protection money it has to pay out to prevent the prosecution of pedophile priests. In the event of unavoidable prosecutions which have happened in many countries, it has to settle.

Strangely though, there’s no entreaty from Jesus in the gospels to create a hugely powerful, cash rich, and fundamentally corrupt political structure to safeguard his legacy.

CorporatePiggy on May 26, 2012 at 4:37 PM

I can’t make Italian jokes any more because my Italian-American tango teacher is so adorable.

Seth Halpern on May 26, 2012 at 4:38 PM

While Vatican employees do not receive large salaries, they do enjoy benefits such as low rent, no income tax, and cheap food and petrol at the commissaries of the 108-acre city-state

…spreading the wealth?
What happened?

KOOLAID2 on May 26, 2012 at 4:43 PM

The Day shall declare it. In fact, that Day is going to declare a whole lot more than meets the ear now. There will be no shuck and jive by the harlot on that Day!

Gordy on May 26, 2012 at 4:46 PM

Isn’t there a required course in “butler school” on ‘doing it’?

GarandFan on May 26, 2012 at 4:49 PM

Upgrade: The pope’s “infallibility” is a big, fat hoax. The Day shall disclose this, too. Bashing? No — truth-telling.

Gordy on May 26, 2012 at 4:53 PM

Pentecost is tomorrow…The Birthday of the Catholic Church.

workingclass artist on May 26, 2012 at 4:58 PM

The Catholic Church is a cesspool of under-handed activity behind the facade of God’s house. The FAITH is good for the millions of average people all around the world who believe, in fact, I daresay it’s vital. But behind that red velvet curtain and impenetrable walls is a world I don’t think any of us can really even imagine.

Boomer_Sooner on May 26, 2012 at 5:00 PM

Another reason the Catholic Church is “out of the mainstream”, and should not be “in charge of healthcare”.

From the evil Communist Democrats in 5….4…..3….

PappyD61 on May 26, 2012 at 5:03 PM

Bankers are the same the world over. Did Paolo have a Swiss bank account cuz he risked a lot including sending his soul to hell for betrayal and his wife and kids out on the street.

Kissmygrits on May 26, 2012 at 5:03 PM

The Catholic Church is a cesspool of under-handed activity behind the facade of God’s house. The FAITH is good for the millions of average people all around the world who believe, in fact, I daresay it’s vital. But behind that red velvet curtain and impenetrable walls is a world I don’t think any of us can really even imagine.

Boomer_Sooner on May 26, 2012 at 5:00 PM

Is that you Opie?

Dr Evil on May 26, 2012 at 5:07 PM

Upgrade: The pope’s “infallibility” is a big, fat hoax. The Day shall disclose this, too. Bashing? No — truth-telling.

Gordy on May 26, 2012 at 4:53 PM

Over a billion Catholics world wide & growing.
The Catholic Church is made up of 23 autonomous particular churches, each of which accepts the paramountcy of the Bishop of Rome on matters of doctrine.

workingclass artist on May 26, 2012 at 5:07 PM

The Day shall declare it. In fact, that Day is going to declare a whole lot more than meets the ear now. There will be no shuck and jive by the harlot on that Day!

Gordy on May 26, 2012 at 4:46 PM

And how wonderful that God made YOU the judge!

shaloma on May 26, 2012 at 5:15 PM

The Catholic Church does a huge amount of good work throughout the world. But yes we are all sinners save Christ on this earth. The Vatican was the capitol of the Holy Roman Empire and ruled Europe for 1260 years. It commuted the largest genocides ever on earth and was almost totally responsible for the Dark Ages. Eventually Nepolean put and end to it by taking captive and eventually murdering the Pope. But for 1260 years the Popes were AntiChrist or at least a large part of that time.

Thankfully that time is past but their celibacy policy is still causing many problems. This is not natural for men or women. It just adds to the difficulty of doing the right things. Thus I still worry it could return to the Dark Ages.

Steveangell on May 26, 2012 at 5:16 PM

It’s quite true the Curia are not perfect people. Putting on a cassock does not make someone perfect. The question is why should anyone accept the Pope as infallible even when it comes to doctrine (a concept that forced down the collective throat of the Bishops at Vatican I)?

Saying such things is not Catholic bashing unless you can show it’s not true. So far, all attempts at that have failed miserably.

The Roman Catholic Church did not begin at Pentecost. It is widely recognized that the Roman Catholic Church evolved from the Old Catholic Church (the post Nicene Church) after Augustine.

working class, it really doesn’t matter how many Roman Catholics think that. Truth is not determined by majority vote. Although Augustine seemed to think so in his fight against the Donatists, which began the RC tradition of persecution of dissenters.

Quartermaster on May 26, 2012 at 5:18 PM

But to be fair the Vatican does have a lot of protection money it has to pay out to prevent the prosecution of pedophile priests. In the event of unavoidable prosecutions which have happened in many countries, it has to settle.

Strangely though, there’s no entreaty from Jesus in the gospels to create a hugely powerful, cash rich, and fundamentally corrupt political structure to safeguard his legacy.

CorporatePiggy on May 26, 2012 at 4:37 PM

I do not think you understand whom us Catholics are paying — and it certainly is not “protection money”. We are paying the victims of these gay priests.

As for your ideas of what is the Catholic Church is, well, I have one response: What is your religious faith (or supposed lack thereof), so that we Catholics can go bash it?

unclesmrgol on May 26, 2012 at 5:20 PM

Quartermaster on May 26, 2012 at 5:18 PM

trumpery.

unclesmrgol on May 26, 2012 at 5:20 PM

It commuted the largest genocides ever on earth and was almost totally responsible for the Dark Ages.
Steveangell on May 26, 2012 at 5:16 PM

Gee, I thought the the “Dark Ages” resulted from the collapse of The Roman Empire…Y’know Barbarian invasions,migrations & uprisings of indigenous folks against legions spread too thin etc…silly me.

workingclass artist on May 26, 2012 at 5:28 PM

The Vatican was the capitol of the Holy Roman Empire and ruled Europe for 1260 years. It commuted the largest genocides ever on earth and was almost totally responsible for the Dark Ages. Eventually Nepolean put and end to it by taking captive and eventually murdering the Pope.

Public school education?

pauljc on May 26, 2012 at 5:29 PM

Upgrade: The pope’s “infallibility” is a big, fat hoax. The Day shall disclose this, too. Bashing? No — truth-telling.
Gordy on May 26, 2012 at 4:53 PM

I think I’ll take Jesus’ clear words over your obviously hate filled opinion.

‘I give to you the keys to the kingdom…whatsoever you hold bound on earth shall be bound in heaven …’ and it was Peter who called for the first instance of Apostolic succession, the replacement for Judas. If I would have ever doubted the primacy of Peter and his successors, the promulgation of Humanae Vitae by Paul VI, of all popes, would have put an end to any doubts. If ever there was a sign of the Holy Spirit at work in the Church, that a man like Paul VI, good friend of Rembert Weakland, and who allowed the disastrous liturgical destruction following Vat II, held bound the truth of the Church’s teaching on the evil of contraception, against the tsunami of popular opinion… And the results of the widespread rejection of that inspired teaching show that it was prophetic.

Yep, Jesus gave the keys and the promise that He would be with the Church forever, even unto the consummation of the world.

Deo gracias.

pannw on May 26, 2012 at 5:29 PM

As for your ideas of what is the Catholic Church is, well, I have one response: What is your religious faith (or supposed lack thereof), so that we Catholics can go bash it?

unclesmrgol on May 26, 2012 at 5:20 PM

Why not address my central point?

After that, you can have after my denomination. But no shirking now. X

CorporatePiggy on May 26, 2012 at 5:32 PM

The Roman Catholic Church did not begin at Pentecost. It is widely recognized that the Roman Catholic Church evolved from the Old Catholic Church (the post Nicene Church) after Augustine.
Quartermaster on May 26, 2012 at 5:18 PM

Catholics celebrate Pentecost as the beginning of the public ministry of the church.

Whether you accept this or not makes me shrug…It is our tradition.

workingclass artist on May 26, 2012 at 5:32 PM

Gratias*. Sigh. I hate spell correction on my phone.

pannw on May 26, 2012 at 5:35 PM

Public school education?

pauljc on May 26, 2012 at 5:29 PM

Do you really deny this.

The Catholic Church required convert or die murdering most of the people in Spain and then South America. The more notable examples. The Catholic Church disallowed any teaching of the Earth going around the Sun. Repressed any scientific study keeping us in the Dark Ages. Eventually their power was weakened and we came out of the Dark Ages. But the Catholic Church is to blame for the length of the Dark Ages. The Catholic Church of today is hardly the same Church as then.

Steveangell on May 26, 2012 at 5:46 PM

pannw on May 26, 2012 at 5:29 PM

Yes Peter really did create the Papacy which tells you a lot about him. He and the writers took some HUGE license to create the morally corrupt and criminal political organization that is the papacy.

Which is one of the many reasons people tried to get back to the book and away from the farce.

CorporatePiggy on May 26, 2012 at 5:50 PM

This is a bog standard scandal from what is visible. The motivations are money in the form of, well money; and power in the form of one small cog (whether it’s Gabriele or not) satisfying their lust for control by leaking information. Heads of the FBI, CIA etc write books that cannot possibly sell if they don’t reveal something scandalous. Leakers need to leak something that a newspaper will find newsworthy. Leakers do it for the power trip.

Look at Watergate. As good as it was that the dirty laundry got aired — because in those days we actually held presidents accountable to the law — W. Mark Felt seems to have done it because he was angry for having been passed over for the FBI’s top job.

The only thing about the Catholic Church that makes this unique from other scandals involving churches is that the Catholic church is massive. If my pastor steals money or has an affair it would reck his career, and possibly lead to the end of our little church. But Catholicism’s scandals will always rock a much larger population. There’s no way to change that.

doufree on May 26, 2012 at 5:54 PM

Gabriele could get 30 years in prison:

Where? Does the Vatican have its own little prison, or does the Italian prison system hold convicts of the Vatican judicial system? (Just curious.)

acasilaco on May 26, 2012 at 6:10 PM

Repressed any scientific study keeping us in the Dark Ages.

Sorry, man, you’re dead wrong on that point.

I’m not going to defend anything the church did pre-Reformation and even beyond, but I’m curious where this dark ages angle is coming from? I’m curious.

Like another commenter noted the collapse from from the fall of the Roman Empire and centuries of smaller factions fighting for almost every inch of Europe led to the dark ages.

In fact, where it not for the efforts of many monastaries, every stitch of literature and history would have been burned and looted or lost during that period.

Also, it was Clovis’ opportunistic conversion – helping to cretae a stronger Frankish Kingdom which had the backing of the Church. These same Franks would stop the Caliphate at Tours about 300 years later…

reaganaut on May 26, 2012 at 6:13 PM

BREAKING

The Catholic Church is a disgrace

DBear on May 26, 2012 at 6:16 PM

a deeply and sorely misunderstood fact

Capitalist Hog on May 26, 2012 at 4:05 PM

…by the vast majority of Catholics who like to ignore what the Popes and councils have decreed about required obedience.

Catholics-bashing in 3, 2, 1…

Schadenfreude on May 26, 2012 at 3:45 PM

Obfuscation in 2… 1…

mankai on May 26, 2012 at 6:24 PM

pannw on May 26, 2012 at 5:29 PM

Peter (alone) was given the keys to the kingdomthe kingdom… not to heaven, not to the church, not to anything except the Kingdom… the Jewish kingdom he preached at Pentecost.

mankai on May 26, 2012 at 6:27 PM

Evil and currupt financial dealings….evil and currupt protection of child molesters…but it is a mortal sin to a wear a rubber thinkgy on your willie. And the Pope oversees everything!!!!!

ZippyZ on May 26, 2012 at 6:42 PM

CorporatePiggy on May 26, 2012 at 5:50 PM

Wow. I have more faith in Jesus than to believe He gooned the establishment of His own Church like that. You really think the person He instructed (and gave authority) to “feed my sheep” was a corrupt usurper? You think the man He told “you will stretch out your arms…” and who did, for love of Christ and the Truth he ws commissioned to teach was wicked and poisoned the people of Christ? Wow…

I suppose you’re talking about getting back to that book that didn’t exist for the first centuries after the apostles were no longer able to personally teach. That book that didn’t exist until a pope commissioned its compilation? I can’t remember a scriptural reference to Jesus telling anyone to read the Bible. I do recall Him telling His disciples that if one sins and won’t listen to his brother, the brother should take another to confront him. And if that didn’t work to tell The church. The Bible didn’t make the Church. The Church made the Bible to be used by the Church.

There is also something about private interpretation but typing on my phone is torture.

Peace.

pannw on May 26, 2012 at 7:05 PM

mankai on May 26, 2012 at 6:27 PM

:) ahh. The leader of the church of one. . Not what I think Jesus had in mind when He prayed “And not for them only do I pray, but for them also who through their word shall believe in me; That they all may be one, as thou, Father, in me, and I in thee; that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.”

Is it any wonder so few now believe?

pannw on May 26, 2012 at 7:20 PM

What makes the Catholic Church worse on Pedophilia is the prohibition of Marriage from Priest and Nuns. Men have needs almost all men. In other churches men are married but some still see prostitutes. In the Catholic Church Priest and Nuns do it but Alter Boys give Priest ready access to sin with them. Now I agree most Priest are fine. They may break the law of chastity with women but very very few with boys. But then to the Church moved these men around instead of sacking them.

This being said the Catholic Church still gets too much bad publicity from this.

I believe almost all Priest and Bishops in the Catholic Church do their best to follow God. But they are limited as their version of the 10 commandments eliminated the prohibition of idol worship and lessens the need to praise GOD. The power of the Pope also allows a few men to have a huge amount of power thus corrupting the church if these men become corrupt. That being said the Catholic Church has done a great job of not following the Political Correctness that is destroying the Western way of life.

Steveangell on May 26, 2012 at 7:54 PM

Didn’t even know the Pope had a butler.

Dr. ZhivBlago on May 26, 2012 at 8:12 PM

This would be the same Vatican banking scandal that’s been in the news for over a decade. Previous headlines referenced that a Mafia laundered money via this bank, plus the “suicide” of the banker hanging from a bridge.

Reforms take time…

maverick muse on May 26, 2012 at 9:30 PM

What makes the Catholic Church worse on Pedophilia is the prohibition of Marriage from Priest and Nuns.

Steveangell on May 26, 2012 at 7:54 PM

The big mistake was to allow homosexuals to become priests.

Period.

Rebar on May 26, 2012 at 9:58 PM

Pentecost is tomorrow…The Birthday of the Catholic Christian Church.

workingclass artist on May 26, 2012 at 4:58 PM

Big difference between the Church, the Holy Universal Church which is the union of all believers and the institution, the Catholic Church which is catholic (i.e., universal) in name only.

“For by Grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not of yourselves, it is a gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast”
God’s Word: Ephesians 2:8

“If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema (i.e., eternally condemned).”
Man’s word via the Council of Trent and papal doctrine

Unfortunately, the Catholic Church places tradition over the authority of God’s inspired word.

Christ’s words to Peter regarding the “rock” was his confession that Christ was the Son of God. The keys were given to the whole Church (all believers), not just Peter.

AZfederalist on May 26, 2012 at 10:01 PM

The Catholic Church disallowed any teaching of the Earth going around the Sun. Repressed any scientific study keeping us in the Dark Ages.

Steveangell on May 26, 2012 at 5:46 PM

Steve – a little bit of perspective is in order. The “religion versus science” meme that you are repeating is a ridiculous distortion of what actually happened. First of all, the universities that the scientific revolution sprang from were started primarily as institutions of religious instruction. So, if there was no Catholic church, there would have been no science in the first place.

Regarding Galileo – he initially had the support of the Jesuits, but this support was withdrawn after some of his writings appeared to attack the pope. And even after his heresy trial, he was techinically placed under house arrest, but was allowed to continue his studies and writings (and was protected from time to time by sympathetic bishops). So the truch of the matter is much more complicated than the moron-simple “church versus science” slogan that we hear so often.

You are correct that many horrors have been done in the name of religion. But, again, put it in perspective. 100 million people have been killed by militant atheism (i.e. Communism). If religion is so bloodthirsty, then why is the death toll of Atheism greater than the number killed in the name of religion? The problem is not in religion itself, the problem is in humanity. This is the problem with the Catholic Church – the fact that humans run it.

SubmarineDoc on May 26, 2012 at 10:05 PM

Also – let me append my post above by clarifying that any human institution as large as the Catholic Church is going to have periodic scandals and problems from time to time, by virtue of the fact that humans are highly falible.

Several commenters have made mention of the priest sex scandals. But the church taken on these scandals much more aggressively than, for example, our public school system (despite the fact that the latter problem is at least ten times larger than the church scandals ever were).

Compared to the world around us, the Catholic Church is a model of ethical behavior.

SubmarineDoc on May 26, 2012 at 10:18 PM

was arrested Wednesday with secret documents in his possession

Oh SHUT UP. SECRET documents my butt.

TX-96 on May 26, 2012 at 10:26 PM

That book that didn’t exist until a pope commissioned its compilation?
pannw on May 26, 2012 at 7:05 PM

You really need to learn more about the historical Jesus and the writers of the Gospels – as a start.

And peace to you to.

CorporatePiggy on May 26, 2012 at 10:42 PM

Obama is attacking the Catholic Church and religous freedom. Do you idiots attacking The Catholic Church really want to side with Obama now? Most of the recent anti-Catholic crap that has been spread is from the New York Times and their ilk. Forcing all employers to provide abortion drugs is heinous in any Christian church. Of course other Christian faiths have been attacking the Church for centuries. Don’t you think it’s time to put our petty prejudices aside?

LakeLevel on May 27, 2012 at 12:11 AM

The butler did it with miss Scarlet in the library. (Yowser!)

The Rock on May 27, 2012 at 12:36 AM

“It’s good to remember that Catholics make no claims on personal perfection — not even for the Pope; his infallibility is on doctrine only. ”

And this is one of the reasons I’m not Catholic. Why should I believe that a person who has not been granted the grace to avoid temptation in small matters thereby suddenly become perfect when making decisions affecting billions of people worldwide and the generations therafter? “Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much,and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much. So if you have not been trustworthy in handling worldly wealth, who will trust you with true riches? And if you have not been trustworthy with someone else’s property, who will give you property of your own?” (Luke 16).

pendell2 on May 27, 2012 at 8:47 AM

What interesting comments. As usual, the story is very intrgueing but the comments do not disappoint.
Why would this meek religious guy steal documents?
It appears to me that the Day comments could be something to do with it.
The Catholic bashing is annoying. We moved here from a largely Catholic area in Detroit. For all the liberal la la crap in the Portland area, there is an equal amount of evangelical stuff.
I am sick of being told I’m going to hell. I am sick of my children being told they can not form lasting relationships with someone because we are going to hell.
I refuse to defend my faith or my Church to people that have no desire to listen because I’m going to hell.
Good grief. Why do we need a religion or a God or any other doctrine when we have whole groups who apparently know better?/ Just ask them.

Back on topic…….this will make a good book.

ORconservative on May 27, 2012 at 9:46 AM

Back on topic…….this will make a good book.

ORconservative on May 27, 2012 at 9:46 AM

More likely a movie.
Takes too long to do a Broadway play.

AesopFan on May 27, 2012 at 9:22 PM

AesopFan on May 27, 2012 at 9:22 PM

Get to work! :)

ORconservative on May 27, 2012 at 10:35 PM

The last pope who messed with the “Vatican Strong box” aka The Vatican Bank, died suddenly and mysteriously with lots of intrigue behind the scenes (read In God’s Name by Yallop), I’d point fingers toward, the Millionaires (aka Legionaires) of Christ, Opus Dei, several lefty Cardinals and the local Masonic Lodge. I hope this poor butler doesn’t suddenly die while in custody of a “stroke” or coronary emboulism etc. The so called spirt of Vatican II just keeps on giving and giving. Could also be the work of a anti catholic, catholic group called womens Major Religious Superiors conference of women. A group of hootin and a hallowrin
leftist with nominal catholic beliefs. The regime in DC could also be in on this, they have an extensive enemies list made up of anyone who identifies as a Christian.

Please pray for the Holy Father and his safety from the enemies from within and in DC.

SANTA on May 29, 2012 at 12:01 PM