Poll: Opposition to gay marriage drops to new low after Obama’s announcement

posted at 4:41 pm on May 23, 2012 by Allahpundit

Does The One still have this sort of influence even among his base? C’mon. I know he’s “the Lightbringer” or whatever, but no one’s morals are changing overnight just because Obama finally mustered the meager political courage needed to drop his ancient charade on SSM.

Or are they?

Overall, 53 percent of Americans say gay marriage should be legal, hitting a high mark in support while showing a dramatic turnaround from just six years ago, when just 36 percent thought it should be legal. Thirty-nine percent, a new low, say gay marriage should be illegal.

The poll also finds that 59 percent of African Americans say they support same-sex marriage, up from an average of 41 percent in polls leading up to Obama’s announcement of his new position on the matter. Though statistically significant, it is a tentative result because of the relatively small sample of black voters in the poll…

Schubert was deeply skeptical that support for same-sex marriage was increasing among African Americans.

“There is not a chance in God’s green earth that African Americans support same-sex marriage,” he said, drawing from his experience organizing anti-same-sex marriage campaigns in California, Iowa, Maine and North Carolina. The president’s endorsement has likely “created a lot of angst and conflict in that community, but his opinion of same-sex marriage is not going to be changing the opinion of African Americans in a significant way.”

Is there really no chance that black voters are shifting on this? When WaPo polled the gay-marriage issue in isolation last week, they found that 54 percent of blacks supported O’s announcement versus 37 percent who disapproved — although, as in today’s poll, because of the small sample the margin of error was enormous. Separately, PPP polled North Carolina and found a seven-point trend in favor of SSM among black residents, from 20 percent before the recent referendum to ban gay marriage in the state to 27 percent after Obama spoke up. With O polling between 90 and 95 percent among that demographic, go figure that a dramatic policy change of heart might move some votes on the issue. Maybe that’s where the sudden national boost in favor of SSM is coming from.

The problem with that theory, though, is that we have a sample skew here. Back in March, WaPo found the split on SSM to be 52/43; the sample for that poll was 31D/27R/36I. This month the split is 53/39 based on a sample of 32D/22R/38I. When you go from a four-point tilt towards Democrats to a 10-point tilt, don’t be surprised if the support you see for legalizing gay marriage moves accordingly. Could be, though, that a little of both is happening — WaPo oversampled Dems and yet there’s real movement among blacks towards the liberal position on this. We won’t know for sure until the next state referendum but it’s worth flagging this data now for reference later.

Exit question: Given the Democratic skew, is the narrowness of this margin worth anything? Looks similar to the narrow margin in last night’s WSJ poll, but of course that poll had a teetering sample too.


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Comment pages: 1 2

Back in the closet, Obama..

Electrongod on May 23, 2012 at 4:43 PM

pOLLS…pOLES!

KOOLAID2 on May 23, 2012 at 4:43 PM

The problem with that theory, though, is that we have a sample skew here.

Shocka. And then we wonder after the 33rd state votes against gay marriage how the polls got it so wrong.

amerpundit on May 23, 2012 at 4:44 PM

Anyone believing this is a moron. I’m sure this is why it fails miserably in every actual ballot vote.

Gregor on May 23, 2012 at 4:44 PM

the SE Cupp thread does NOT count as your mandatory “boobeh thread” ….

1 for 1

ted c on May 23, 2012 at 4:44 PM

…they just polled people in prison./

KOOLAID2 on May 23, 2012 at 4:44 PM

Another case of the polls not reflecting how people actually vote.

MadisonConservative on May 23, 2012 at 4:45 PM

but of course that poll had a teetering sample too.

are you sure it’s really “teetering” per se? Not “throbbing“???
/

ted c on May 23, 2012 at 4:46 PM

Any time we talk about polling on this subject, I think this tweet should get an obligatory mention:

Hate to say it but I don’t believe polls showing majority support for gay marriage nationally. Any time there’s a vote it doesn’t back it up

http://twitter.com/ppppolls/status/200035055287013379

Doomberg on May 23, 2012 at 4:46 PM

Obama may be the first gay president but he’s bisexual on private equity.

Schadenfreude on May 23, 2012 at 4:47 PM

WaPo oversampled Dems and yet there’s real movement among blacks towards the liberal position on this.

After watching C. Booker being shamed into submission this past week I wouldn’t be surpised if blacks got the message and clear threat to follow the 0′s lead or be whipped back onto the plantation.

txhsmom on May 23, 2012 at 4:47 PM

Saying you are pro-choice just ain’t cool anymore. /s

These are our fellow Americans? People who will change their mind on a whim? Or say things such as “likeability” in order to stay within some mainstream norm.

What a crock of spit. Time to turn off the TV America.

cajun carrot on May 23, 2012 at 4:48 PM

Sigh, failure to pay attention… gay marraige/pro-life/choice, w/e my point remains the same.

cajun carrot on May 23, 2012 at 4:50 PM

“Bacracka has his mojo back” is the meme they are trying to push here. Sorry, but not even Puff the Magic Dragon can blow that many smoke rings.

SouthernGent on May 23, 2012 at 4:50 PM

The poll also finds that 59 percent of African Americans say they support same-sex marriage, up from an average of 41 percent in polls leading up to Obama’s announcement

Wow. This poll is either complete BS or many of our Black friends have awfully malleable values. I’m guessing it’s the former.

Kataklysmic on May 23, 2012 at 4:50 PM

Anyone believing this is a moron. I’m sure this is why it fails miserably in every actual ballot vote.

Gregor on May 23, 2012 at 4:44 PM

Just because you would have to be a FOOL to put stock in this poll does not mean it shouldn’t be taken VERY SERIOUSLY…it’s a POLL afterall.
Did you hear that the SCOAMF is in great shape as well…polls say!!!

winston on May 23, 2012 at 4:50 PM

Opposition to gay marriage is gay…

/

Seven Percent Solution on May 23, 2012 at 4:50 PM

The reason it’s dropping is because a lot of Democrat voters tend to be sheeple. There’s likely to be little movement amongst indies and almost none with Republicans(it could even go in the opposite direction there). The other thing to keep in mind is that just because the electorate as a whole may be more open to supporting gay marriage, it’s still a meaningless issue in this election.

Doughboy on May 23, 2012 at 4:50 PM

From the Headline:

What invariably happens in polls like this vs actual votes is organization. Once people realize redifining marriage has more consequences than “making people who love each other happy” then redefining marriage gets voted down – even in Maine and California.

Polls of adults invariably include people so ignorant they don’t even know where their polling place is. Once there is an actual vote under way, legions of activists begin an information campaign and force them to confront the real issues, all of which portend to what the state will try to teach their children in public schools, what non-governmental social services will be required to perform and endorse, and a whole host of other real on the ground effects.

Oh, and the pro-refedinition forces start a cajoling, intimidation, and hate campaign – often with real violence to opponents. It always helps when they reveal the true nature of the support behind this degrading practice. Americans don’t like to be bullied, so on balance they vote against. Even in Maine and California.

All discrepancies between polls and votes can be explained by information availability. The more informed the voter, the less likely they are to support refefining marriage.

BKennedy on May 23, 2012 at 4:52 PM

Exit question: Given the Democratic skew, is the narrowness of this margin worth anything?

Nah. When they are playing games with the sample to rig results for their boyfriend, there’s no reason to give them the benefit of the doubt about anything. The whole production is tainted.

forest on May 23, 2012 at 4:52 PM

Opposition to gay marriage drops to new low after Obama’s announcement

I can understand that. I mean, I didn’t eat arugula until I found out Obama liked it.

And I’ve had at least 150 beer summits on my patio since he had his.

Trend setter, baby!
//

BacaDog on May 23, 2012 at 4:54 PM

Did they poll any Black Churches?

listens2glenn on May 23, 2012 at 4:54 PM

Pure fantasy. This in the same week that support for abortion has dropped dramatically? WaPo didn’t have any credibility to lose, so I guess it’s no big deal.

MikeinPRCA on May 23, 2012 at 4:54 PM

If the question is worded so that it comes across as a referendum on Obama vs. not-Obama, as much as on the same-sex marriage idea itself, that could account for the bump at this time. How it works out long-term could be a different story, especially if the question for some religious-leaning Dems becomes a referendum between their own church’s teachings and Obama.

jon1979 on May 23, 2012 at 4:55 PM

I can understand that. I mean, I didn’t eat arugula until I found out Obama liked it.

And I’ve had at least 150 beer summits on my patio since he had his.

Trend setter, baby!
//

BacaDog on May 23, 2012 at 4:54 PM

Yeah, I have been experimenting with puppy recipes lately.

faraway on May 23, 2012 at 4:55 PM

Yes, it is true that polls show that a majority of Americans support SSM, but I would take them with a few grains of salt for a couple of reasons. First, there is very obviously a Bradley Effect going on because the polling data never reflects the actual vote tallies. No one was surprised that the constitutional amendment passed in North Carolina. Nearly everyone was shocked by the margin of the victory for the opponents.

The other reason is very simple: SSM is not at the top of the overwhelming majority of Americans’ list of priorities. I support SSM, but if it were the only issue on the ballot, I seriously doubt that I could be bothered to make it to the polls. It is just not that important to me. On the other hand, people, who are opposed to SSM, would be very much inclined to make it to the polls to vote if that were the only issue on the ballot.

Resist We Much on May 23, 2012 at 4:56 PM

The reason these polls don’t match results is of the guilt/shame put on people who admit they oppose gay marriage. Therefore they tell someone on the phone/street, “yes I support it” but vote no on it.

Personally I never got why the government gives marriage licenses anyway. Why not a civil union license and let churches deal with marriage. Then again I don’t care about pot even though I’ve never smoked it, guess I’m just some RINO…

nextgen_repub on May 23, 2012 at 4:56 PM

Oh, please!

Besides the sample skew, there is a very simple explanation. Blacks will not oppose Obama on anything. They fear it is disloyal. If he came out for Jim Crow laws, the support for them would suddenly appear, too.

Adjoran on May 23, 2012 at 4:57 PM

Everybody lies.

Fallon on May 23, 2012 at 4:57 PM

HP laying off 27,000 in restructuring – must be Mitt’s fault.

Schadenfreude on May 23, 2012 at 4:58 PM

Leadership.

– Getalife, crr6, lib4life, lester, sesquipedalian, capitulus, etc etc etc.

UltimateBob on May 23, 2012 at 4:59 PM

Q: Is Obowma’s support for allowing gays and lesbians to get married a major reason for you to (support) that candidate, a major reason to for (oppose) that candidate, or not a major factor in your vote?

A: Not a major factor.

Seven Percent Solution on May 23, 2012 at 5:01 PM

Anybody who’s going to change their mind on an issue like this, just because the president has their say, aren’t very strong-minded people to begin with.

MadisonConservative on May 23, 2012 at 5:02 PM

As I said on the headlines thread, this is good news.

It wouldn’t surprise me if Obama’s announcement did increase support by a few points in the black community. Some of those on the fence might have been persuaded by Obama’s comments.

Also, I was talking with a black friend the other day. She mentioned that a few friends of hers had said that they felt like this issue could now be more openly discussed (and in a positive way) in their circles since the announcement. Anecdotal, but it is possible that some people in the black community who support equal rights for gays may feel more comfortable now in expressing that view. If that holds true for a larger portion of the black community, then it is a very positive step in this civil rights struggle. Victory may come even sooner than expected.

McDuck on May 23, 2012 at 5:04 PM

The poll also finds that 59 percent of African Americans say they support same-sex marriage, up from an average of 41 percent in polls leading up to Obama’s announcement of his new position on the matter.

Blacks support Obama at least 9 to 1. These poll numbers are simply blacks having his back. If John Kerry were the first gay president, polls would reflect that blacks overwhelmingly oppose SSM–though they’d still vote for the Democratic candidate because they can’t bring themselves to leave the Democratic Party plantation.

BuckeyeSam on May 23, 2012 at 5:05 PM

Yawn. Meaningless poll.

There are 4 states will have a ballot measure on this matter in the fall. You know, where actual VOTERS will actually vote.

I predict all 4 will conclude the exact opposite of this “poll”…LOL

Norwegian on May 23, 2012 at 5:08 PM

Now if they could just find a way to have Obama standing over every black person’s shoulder when they mark a ballot asking this question this poll might mean something.

As long as they can cast separate votes FOR Obama and AGAINST redefining marriage this poll don’t mean much.

Rocks on May 23, 2012 at 5:08 PM

Raise your hand if you were surprised that it was Allahpundit who posted this.

As for the substance of the article, I think my fellow conservatives have said it best. Those opinion polls don’t square with the votes of more than 30 states, including California.

Stoic Patriot on May 23, 2012 at 5:08 PM

The poll also finds that 59 percent of African Americans say they support same-sex marriage, up from an average of 41 percent…

That is huge, and surprising. I can’t imagine that The One had everything to do with that change, and for sure his turnaround on gay marriage lately reeks of a political ploy, it just might help him.

Either way, gay marriage is coming…maybe not this year, maybe not next year. It’s time.

JetBoy on May 23, 2012 at 5:09 PM

Allahpundit still trotting out these push-polls that he himself admitted are phony.

It’s almost as if he’s pushing an agenda, and will use whatever lie to keep propagandizing for it.

Did I say, “almost”?

Rebar on May 23, 2012 at 5:12 PM

The poll also finds that 59 percent of African Americans say they support same-sex marriage, up from an average of 41 percent in polls leading up to Obama’s announcement of his new position on the matter.

There you have it — blacks were once again forced (in their minds) to abandon morality and the teachings of the Christian church in order to circle the wagons around some politician because of melanin. A people enslaved by chemistry and a sick culture.

Jaibones on May 23, 2012 at 5:13 PM

When WaPo starts polling outside their newsroom, then I’ll take notice.

BKeyser on May 23, 2012 at 5:13 PM

nextgen_repub on May 23, 2012 at 4:56 PM

That’s a unfair assumption on your part about guilt and shame. It could be a big none of the pollsters biz.and that point people don’t any need to be truthful. But guilt and shame, I don’t think so.

rik on May 23, 2012 at 5:13 PM

I dont care about gay marriage.

Politricks on May 23, 2012 at 5:15 PM

So he picked up from 41% to 59% support on this issue, among an electorate 90% of which already supported him. Big whoop.

Meanwhile he continues to alienate Catholics andindependents, groups he kind of needs to win if he thinks he’s going to be re-elected.

Gingotts on May 23, 2012 at 5:15 PM

My question to liberals and their media allies is this: you liberals aided your liberal media keep trying to tell us, that a majority of Americans are in favor of gay marriage. Yet, why time after time when it is put up or shut up time, the American people overwhelmingly reject gay marriage with 32 states so far saying not just NO to gay marriage, but HELL NO to it.

Beastdogs on May 23, 2012 at 5:17 PM

So Obozo finally comes around to a position stated by Dick Cheney in 2009 and all of a sudden the sky opens and everything changes? I don’t think so. These polls are as useless as Bill Clinton’s word under oath.

mouell on May 23, 2012 at 5:18 PM

Allahpundit still trotting out these push-polls that he himself admitted are phony.

It’s almost as if he’s pushing an agenda, and will use whatever lie to keep propagandizing for it.

Did I say, “almost”?

Rebar on May 23, 2012 at 5:12 PM

And Rebar is still trotting out the same old repetitive nonsense, it’s almost like Rebar is pushing an agenda, and will use whatever lie to keep propagandizing for it.

JetBoy on May 23, 2012 at 5:19 PM

This election is about jobs and the economy- areas Obama is studiously avoiding going. Manufactured/skewed polls are a campaign tactic. I guess the theory is that the guy who just passed 99 weeks of unemployment will forget all that if some poll says that gay marriage is suddenly deemed a societally-recognized lifestyle choice. Lots of luck with that Barry.

Happy Nomad on May 23, 2012 at 5:20 PM

These polls are as useless as Bill Clinton’s word under oath.

mouell on May 23, 2012 at 5:18 PM

Actually Clintons perjury was useful in impeaching him. I’d agree to the idea that these polls are of as much veracity as Clinton under oath.

Happy Nomad on May 23, 2012 at 5:21 PM

Knowing the Washington Post, my guess is that they had the pollster select Zip Codes with demographics they knew would produce the poll results they wanted.

newsbusters.org is running a thread that the three major networks ran a total of 19 seconds of coverage on the health care suit by 43 Catholic organizations in the last two nights (with ABC and NBC totally ignoring it).

Let’s face the facts: the U.S. media is the most dishonest organization in the world.

bw222 on May 23, 2012 at 5:23 PM

And Rebar is still trotting out the same old repetitive nonsense, it’s almost like Rebar is pushing an agenda, and will use whatever lie to keep propagandizing for it.

JetBoy on May 23, 2012 at 5:19 PM

Which “lie” is that?

That 33 states had referendum on same sex marriage, and it lost in all? Oh wait, that’s truth.

That 42 states have banned same sex marriage by statute? Oh wait, that’s truth.

That 29 states have amended their constitutions to forbid same sex marriage? Oh wait, that’s truth.

That the GOP platform, for decades, has included support for traditional marriage and family values? Oh wait, that’s truth.

That homosexual activists are suing – and winning – suits forcing religious folks and churches to cater to them, against their 1st amendment rights? Oh wait, that’s truth.

So, what “lie” was that, again?

Rebar on May 23, 2012 at 5:24 PM

Rebar on May 23, 2012 at 5:24 PM

I’ve found arguing with you about this topic to be pointless, and I’ve tried many, many, many times. So let’s save us both a lot of grief and move on.

JetBoy on May 23, 2012 at 5:29 PM

Allah’s headline – Poll: Opposition to gay marriage drops to new low after Obama’s announcement

Allah’s reality – Skewed Poll Attempts to Sway Electorate

A WaPo poll with a 10% dem advantage. Why Allah?

DanMan on May 23, 2012 at 5:31 PM

I don’t believe that there’s ANYTHING that Barack Obama could do that would lose the black vote for him. That’s sad, I know. But the guy could be biting the heads off baby bunnies and they’d still vote for him, so it doesn’t really matter what they think of “gay marriage” as an issue. It’s not a factor.

Where it may very well be a factor though is with Independents. We keep seeing polls that say Americans are becoming supportive. But when faced with referendums on their state ballots, voters are telling a whole different story. Sounds like pollsters are hearing the “hip” thing, but when people are alone with their ballots, they’re making a different choice.

Murf76 on May 23, 2012 at 5:32 PM

So let’s save us both a lot of grief and move on.

JetBoy on May 23, 2012 at 5:29 PM

A better idea, MobyBoy, is for you to realize no one believes you’re a conservative, and skuttle back to DU, huffpo, DailyKOS, LGF, or whatever leftist feverswamp you came from.

Rebar on May 23, 2012 at 5:33 PM

Rebar on May 23, 2012 at 5:24 PM

I’ve found arguing with you about this topic to be pointless, and I’ve tried many, many, many times. So let’s save us both a lot of grief and move on.

JetBoy on May 23, 2012 at 5:29 PM

Wow, that’s as clear a surrender as I’ve seen from anyone on HotAir, let alone from JetBoy. Hoka Hey, Rebar. Today you are a Cherokee.

spiritof61 on May 23, 2012 at 5:34 PM

Tell that to the 38 states that VOTED no to SSM.

Even liberal loon CA said NO.

Redford on May 23, 2012 at 5:40 PM

Wow, that’s as clear a surrender as I’ve seen from anyone on HotAir, let alone from JetBoy. Hoka Hey, Rebar. Today you are a Cherokee.

spiritof61 on May 23, 2012 at 5:34 PM

A Cherokee you say?

Job offers from Harvard Law School to come flooding into Rebar’s mailbox in 3…. 2…. 1….

UltimateBob on May 23, 2012 at 5:43 PM

A WaPo poll with a 10% dem advantage. Why Allah?

DanMan on May 23, 2012 at 5:31 PM

The point isn’t that it’s accurate, the point is to ask how much of the change is just due to sampling error – all of it? Or just some? The best way to answer that is to look at the changes within each group – does the amount of democratic support increase? independent? republican?(yeah right).

I’m too lazy to go click through and look for the break-down by party-affiliation, assuming they even give it. But those are the numbers to look at, if available, since under-sampling republicans won’t skew those numbers.

RINO in Name Only on May 23, 2012 at 5:44 PM

Exit question: Given the Democratic skew, is the narrowness of this margin worth anything?

Gee, I don’t know. How much time did you waste bothering with this ridiculous poll? WaPo distorting reality? Now there’s something you don’t see EVERY FREAKIN’ DAY. I fail to understand the rationale for even pretending that this deserves to be taken seriously. Must have been inspired by PeeWee Herman over at BuzzFeed again.

cicerone on May 23, 2012 at 5:45 PM

No one with any brains believes that JetBoy is a moby. Only paranoid fools believe such nonsense. JetBoy is more of a true conservative and patriot than many of the anti-gay extremists.

JB, as a fellow gay Republican, I encourage you to just let it roll off your back. Some people you can have real discussions with. Others you cannot. While talking with reasonable people who have other views on this issue is a good idea, I have found that it is often best to not engage the extremists.

McDuck on May 23, 2012 at 5:46 PM

Job offers from Harvard Law School to come flooding into Rebar’s mailbox in 3…. 2…. 1….

UltimateBob on May 23, 2012 at 5:43 PM

Dang, and I just moved two years ago from Cambridge to Texas.

Rebar on May 23, 2012 at 5:47 PM

Given WaPo’s penchant to prop Barry up whenever he starts sagging, I’d give this story zero credibility. Sounds “Fake but Accurate”.

GarandFan on May 23, 2012 at 5:48 PM

No one with any brains believes that JetBoy is a moby. Only paranoid fools believe such nonsense.

This, and not just for this issue either. The number of “Mobys” that exist, have ever existed, or will ever exist, anywhere ever, can probably be counted on two hands, or maybe even only one – much to the actual Moby’s displeasure, no doubt.

No one is that obsessive – wait, WTF am I saying, the internet is filled with people that are that obsessive. However, the typical outlet for such obsession is not to hide it, but to spew it across the web for all to see. So the original point stands.

RINO in Name Only on May 23, 2012 at 5:58 PM

The point isn’t that it’s accurate…

RINO in Name Only on May 23, 2012 at 5:44 PM

bub, if you can’t trust its accuracy, how the hey are you going to extrapolite anything worthwhile out if it? And no, they don’t break it down.

what GarandFan said at 5:48

DanMan on May 23, 2012 at 6:02 PM

All. Gay. All. Day.

Stoning needs to come back in style.

WhatNot on May 23, 2012 at 6:02 PM

I thought this election was suppose to focus on the economy. Apparently it is unless the Democrats are pushing a social agenda YOU like huh Allah?

melle1228 on May 23, 2012 at 6:07 PM

I’ve encountered it a few times with some black friends. They justify it by saying “who cares” or “it doesn’t change anything”. It’s easy to unravel, because it’s not a thought out position. Most of them come from broken homes, so marriage holds little importance to begin with.

…and I think that’s the main issue. If marriage as a bond has no significance in your entire family upbringing, including neighbors, why would they care about same-sex.

budfox on May 23, 2012 at 6:08 PM

Sure it’s getting more popular! That’s why it keeps get voted down every time it’s on the ballot.

JellyToast on May 23, 2012 at 6:09 PM

bub, if you can’t trust its accuracy, how the hey are you going to extrapolite anything worthwhile out if it?

The point is that the inaccuracy comes from it being skewed towards one party. Looking at the partisan break-down immediately corrects this.

And no, they don’t break it down.

what GarandFan said at 5:48

DanMan on May 23, 2012 at 6:02 PM

If they don’t give the break-down, then sure, it’s pretty useless.

RINO in Name Only on May 23, 2012 at 6:16 PM

Same story, different day: If they go to the polls, they vote it down. Say one thing to pollsters, do another at the ballot box.

Philly on May 23, 2012 at 6:17 PM

“Look – I’m Hot Air! Gay gay gay gay gay gay gay gay gay gaygaygaygaygagay gay gay gay GAY gay gay gaygaygay gay!”

“Gay!”

Akzed on May 23, 2012 at 6:19 PM

Another day another worthless Poll.

Listen 30 or so states have voted this down by an average of 30 points. That is the real number or something close to it. It has never once won statewide. Even in California it lost by 4 points.

Steveangell on May 23, 2012 at 6:20 PM

Homosexual marriage is not a critical issue, but it is an indicative issue. Tell me your position on it and your reasons, if any, and I quickly know one hell of a lot about you and the way you think. Especially the latter. I consider it a litmus test of sorts: Can you pan out the truth from a stinking, muddy river of propaganda and self-serving lies?

spiritof61 on May 23, 2012 at 6:27 PM

All. Gay. All. Day.

Stoning needs to come back in style.

WhatNot on May 23, 2012 at 6:02 PM

That’s nice. Perhaps you’d be happier in Iran or Saudi Arabia.

No one with any brains believes that JetBoy is a moby. Only paranoid fools believe such nonsense. JetBoy is more of a true conservative and patriot than many of the anti-gay extremists.

JB, as a fellow gay Republican, I encourage you to just let it roll off your back. Some people you can have real discussions with. Others you cannot. While talking with reasonable people who have other views on this issue is a good idea, I have found that it is often best to not engage the extremists.

McDuck on May 23, 2012 at 5:46 PM

Thank you sir :) I have argued and debated the same old bunk with seemingly the same old people around HA…where I’ve been posting for 5 or 6 years now…Rebar’s ace in the hole is to try to convince HA readers that I’m some moby…so that says quite a bit about his intellect.

It’s just not worth it anymore getting into the same debates with the same people.

JetBoy on May 23, 2012 at 6:35 PM

It’s just not worth it anymore getting into the same debates with the same people.

JetBoy on May 23, 2012 at 6:35 PM

You mean, people who bring up facts you have no answers for, so you need to use Alinsky tactics on them.

Conservatives have seen this same old tired leftist tactic time and time again, they’re not buying what you’re selling – never have never will.

Rebar on May 23, 2012 at 6:54 PM

Sure it’s getting more popular! That’s why it keeps get voted down every time it’s on the ballot.

JellyToast on May 23, 2012 at 6:09 PM

Well soon they will try to redefine the word popular to mean something else. That would fix everything. Its what the left does.

SparkPlug on May 23, 2012 at 6:56 PM

That’s a unfair assumption on your part about guilt and shame. It could be a big none of the pollsters biz.and that point people don’t any need to be truthful. But guilt and shame, I don’t think so.

So people agree to take a poll about their political views then lie because it’s none of the pollster’s opinion? You don’t think part of the reason people don’t want to publically identify themselves as anti gay marriage is because they’re worried about being labeled a homophobe or a bigot? I’m pretty sure that’s a big reason…same reason people shy away from any controversial topic where the opposing side (liberals) just throws ad hominem attacks back.

nextgen_repub on May 23, 2012 at 7:01 PM

Rebar on May 23, 2012 at 5:33 PM

I’d much rather you pushed off to another site, you self-absorbed, pious windbag. JetBoy is as much a conservative as you are. You both have annoying niche issues that drive you. With him, it’s the fact that he’s gay. With you, it’s the fact that gay people exist. He pisses me off at times with his overemotional loaded statements, and so do you. The difference is that isn’t telling someone else that they’re lying about their ideological views. This site could use a lot less of that onerous bulls**t, so take your own advice.

MadisonConservative on May 23, 2012 at 7:13 PM

All. Gay. All. Day.

Stoning needs to come back in style.

WhatNot on May 23, 2012 at 6:02 PM

What the f**k is wrong with you?

MadisonConservative on May 23, 2012 at 7:13 PM

Akzed on May 23, 2012 at 6:19 PM

Don’t like the site’s content? You can always leave.

MadisonConservative on May 23, 2012 at 7:17 PM

Peeps will say one thing to appear “cool” or “accepting” or “open minded” but it’s how they vote that matters.

Alibali on May 23, 2012 at 7:22 PM

Poll: Opposition to gay marriage drops to new low after Obama’s announcement

Would these be the same polls that consistently show majority support for same-sex marriage while it even more consistently loses in election after election?

Are there any polls obviously less trustworthy than polls about support for same-sex marriage?

Not especially impressed.

tom on May 23, 2012 at 7:24 PM

JetBoy is as much a conservative as you are.

MadisonConservative on May 23, 2012 at 7:13 PM

Based on what, exactly?

He only posts in homosexual topics, and only the progressive viewpoint.

I post in many topics, with the conservative viewpoint.

So what source of information do you have, that the rest of us don’t, that you can vet JetBoy as any kind of conservative, besides his own assertion that he is?

Rebar on May 23, 2012 at 7:26 PM

innies and outies make babies

is mother nature a homophobe?

John Kettlewell on May 23, 2012 at 7:29 PM

So actual pollsthat count show people oppossing gay marriage everytime.

No word on that huh? Must keep posting the push polls so we can stick our heads back in the clouds.

Spliff Menendez on May 23, 2012 at 7:33 PM

innies and outies make babies

is mother nature a homophobe?

John Kettlewell on May 23, 2012 at 7:29 PM

Yes

Spliff Menendez on May 23, 2012 at 7:35 PM

No one I know has changed their opinion since little “0″ had made his announcement. We’re all still, very much against gay marriage.

multiuseless on May 23, 2012 at 8:17 PM

He only posts in homosexual topics, and only the progressive viewpoint.

I post in many topics, with the conservative viewpoint.

So what source of information do you have, that the rest of us don’t, that you can vet JetBoy as any kind of conservative, besides his own assertion that he is?

Rebar on May 23, 2012 at 7:26 PM

This is only one reason I can’t debate with you anymore…You spout out lies to fit your own warped image of what I must be. you do this often.

And had you bothered to ask or check…a simple google search of my username and HotAir, you’ll see in my 5 or 6 years commenting on this site I have opined on a whole variety of topics. Any other long-timers at HA would back me up on that.

But please, don’t let me get in the way of your dementia.

JetBoy on May 23, 2012 at 8:30 PM

Those supporting gay marriage are on the wrong side of history. Within twenty years the causes of homosexuality will be better understood and will be able to be prevented in the womb. Not one in a million couples, even the most liberal of liberals, will choose to have a homosexual child.

slickwillie2001 on May 23, 2012 at 8:38 PM

He only posts in homosexual topics, and only the progressive viewpoint.

Flatly untrue. He’s been on this site for years, discussing all sorts of issues.

I post in many topics, with the conservative viewpoint.

Oddly enough, the only time I notice you posting is in gay-related topics…even when JetBoy isn’t around.

So what source of information do you have, that the rest of us don’t, that you can vet JetBoy as any kind of conservative, besides his own assertion that he is?

Rebar on May 23, 2012 at 7:26 PM

The fact that I’ve been on this site for nearly its entire existence, and read his posts. If that isn’t good enough for you, I don’t care, because you seem to think that a position on gay marriage or gay issues determines the rest of a person’s ideology. It doesn’t. You’re simply so obsessed with your hatred of homosexuality that you cannot possibly fathom that someone with a different sexual preference could still hold the same values that you do in regards to how this country should be governed. Some conservatives don’t like guns. Some conservatives think there should be amnesty. Ideology is not based on any one position. If you’re expecting lockstep on every issue, you’re a fool. If you’re expecting lockstep on a relatively new social issue, you’re a bigger fool, as well as a belligerent idiot if you’re going to call people ideological liars over disagreement on it.

MadisonConservative on May 23, 2012 at 8:46 PM

Any other long-timers at HA would back me up on that.

JetBoy on May 23, 2012 at 8:30 PM

I am a “long-timer” at HA, and I stand by what I said. 95% of your posts are in the “gay” topics pushing the progressive homosexual agenda. And on other topics I’ve seen you on, like the Trayvon Martin shooting, you were again on the progressive side of the issue.

Throw your ad hominems as you will, I’ll stack my posting history up against yours, or anyone elses, any day of the week.

Rebar on May 23, 2012 at 8:49 PM

I am a “long-timer” at HA, and I stand by what I said.

Rebar on May 23, 2012 at 8:49 PM

I am a long-timer at HA, and I remember JetBoy more than I remember you. You’re either mistaken or lying. Given how much you’ve fudged the activity levels for both of you, I’d say it’s the latter.

Hey, look! I’m calling you a liar because I disagree with you! Yay we’re bonding!

MadisonConservative on May 23, 2012 at 8:55 PM

I am a long-timer at HA, and I remember JetBoy more than I remember you.

MadisonConservative on May 23, 2012 at 8:55 PM

How about this, since I post about ten times more – at least – than JetBoy, perhaps it’s you who is lying, or at least a case of “selective memory”?

You anti-socon folks tend to stick together, after all.

Rebar on May 23, 2012 at 9:02 PM

The most accurate poll is when you put it to a referendum. In the voting booth, the folks will vote their true beliefs on non-partisan issues

Likewise, put abortion to a referendum and you’ll see how people will really feel about it. That hasn’t happened because people feel like it is a moot issue due to RvW etc, but if it were on the ballot, the pro-lifers would overwhelm the pro-abortionists.

AH_C on May 23, 2012 at 9:21 PM

I’m lying, you’re lying, I’m here longer than you, you’re a better man than I am Gunga Din. Back to the debate now.

spiritof61 on May 23, 2012 at 9:24 PM

How about this, since I post about ten times more – at least – than JetBoy, perhaps it’s you who is lying, or at least a case of “selective memory”?

You anti-socon folks tend to stick together, after all.

Rebar on May 23, 2012 at 9:02 PM

Nice. Now you call everyone a liar that disagrees with you, eh?

Doesn’t really matter. Your entire concept of conservatism hinges on a stupid fringe issue, which speaks to how much your opinion of what is or isn’t conservative is worth.

JetBoy is a conservative that goes apes**t over gay issues, and I’ve spent a good deal of my time arguing against a lot of his points. On other topics, he demonstrates Tea Party thinking. He’s demonstrated to both myself and the long-time community that when the chips are down, he’ll stand shoulder-to-shoulder with us.

You are a conservative that goes apes**t over gay issues, and I’ve occasionally addressed your obtuse, heavy-handed denigration of homosexuals. On other topics, I rarely see you comment, except for religious threads. Your fixation seems clear. The only thing you’ve demonstrated to me is that you’re passionate about your dislike of gays. If that works for you, then godspeed, but it’s not a informed conservative perspective, and certainly not a perspective that has any credibility in passing judgment on the ideological foundations of others.

MadisonConservative on May 23, 2012 at 9:26 PM

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