Yet another plastic bag ban to save the world

posted at 10:31 am on May 12, 2012 by Jazz Shaw

It’s all the rage today, sweeping the nation from coast to coast. As we reported back in March, municipalities across the country are saving the world, one shopping trip at a time, by banning the use of plastic grocery bags. And now, despite some spectacular failures by others who paved the way, Los Angeles is poised to leap into the fray. But the industry is fighting back this time.

With Los Angeles on the verge of becoming the nation’s largest city to ban single-use bags at supermarkets and convenience stores, the plastics industry is beginning to fight back.

With a series of radio and television commercials along with a website (www.bagtheban.com) the American Progressive Bag Alliance also is lobbying city lawmakers to try to head off the plans to outlaw use of the bags.

“We are engaging in the process of dialogue on lots of different fronts,” said Donna Dempsey, spokeswoman for the alliance. “Each city is different, each municipality is unique and we are trying to design our message for Los Angeles.”

They tried it in DC and wound up losing more than 100 jobs and realized a net drop in disposable income. They passed the same ban in San Francisco in 2007 to cut down on their plastic waste. The net result was that the city’s percentage of plastic waste went from .6 percent to .64 percent.

Los Angeles doesn’t just use plastic bags. They also make them and recycle them. The workers in that industry come forward in the following video to talk about what the ban will mean to them and their families. Give it a look.

But hey… they’re saving the world, right?


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Comment pages: 1 2

No Bid F***ing Deal…

they can all go get jobs at the incandescent light bulb plant down the road….

Oh, right. Never mind.

/sarc

MaaddMaaxx on May 12, 2012 at 10:35 AM

Here is how you kill this stupid thing. Imbed a poison pill by making sure it includes the plastic bags that L.A. Times newspaper is wrapped in on wet mornings.

kurtzz3 on May 12, 2012 at 10:36 AM

The city council of Austin, Texas just passed its own plastic bag ban several weeks ago. They had to wait until 2 a.m. for the protesters to go home before they passed it. It goes into effect next year.

If Austin had regional representation instead of a bunch of at-large city council positions, this might not have happened — the less affluent areas of town, who will be hit hardest by this, aren’t really represented.

Caiwyn on May 12, 2012 at 10:37 AM

From the folks who gave us “If it saves only 1 life” mentality, we now have “If it saves only 1 landfill”…SOS-shiny object syndrome.

hillsoftx on May 12, 2012 at 10:38 AM

To complete the story you need to show those nice reusable green cloth bags with a box of two of plastic garbage bags inside, which you will buy when you can no longer reuse the grocery bags.

slickwillie2001 on May 12, 2012 at 10:40 AM

Curious. I remember when plastic bags were introduced. They were going to save us from the untold ravages of paper bags. You can look it up. These sorts of folks were just as cocksure then as now.

Mason on May 12, 2012 at 10:40 AM

These people have too much time on their hands. They need to get a life… or even a real job would help.

petefrt on May 12, 2012 at 10:40 AM

A leftist idea wouldn’t be leftist idea without great and terrible unintended consequences.

jukin3 on May 12, 2012 at 10:42 AM

Norovirus Outbreak Traced to Reusable Grocery Bag

slickwillie2001 on May 12, 2012 at 10:43 AM

Radical environmentalists won’t be happy until we’re lugging our own cloth bags to the story like little old European ladies.

The fact that doesn’t work for people who load a cart during the weekly major shopping expedition, rather than trundling down daily to the nearby neighborhood store, doesn’t matter.

They won’t be truly happy until we’re all back living in the woods.

Drained Brain on May 12, 2012 at 10:44 AM

Fewer plastic bags, less tied-up garbage, more maggots.

Fewer plastic bags, less picking up of dog poop, more maggots.

Fewer plastic bags. More maggots! Vote Democratic.

Paul-Cincy on May 12, 2012 at 10:45 AM

…oh hey!…looks like a bunch of white Hispanics!…banning the bag would also be racist!

KOOLAID2 on May 12, 2012 at 10:49 AM

American Progressive Bag Alliance

I ♥ it!

Use the Proggies own terms against them.

Chip on May 12, 2012 at 10:50 AM

Lots of people use them to put garbage in. When they’re gone, where are we going to put the used kitty litter until it’s time to take it outside?

PattyJ on May 12, 2012 at 10:51 AM

slickwillie2001 on May 12, 2012 at 10:43 AM

LOL! Beat me to it and I have seen more than one of these articles.

Cindy Munford on May 12, 2012 at 10:53 AM

Why Not?
Plastics need OIL. Plastic disposable bags are more expensive than PAPER, you know, that old time grocery bag made from TREES.
In Germany, you either bring your own cloth grocery bag or you purchase a re-useable plastic bag at the check-out. I still have quite a collection of cloth bags.
How about all those lumber industry workers who lost their jobs to plastic bags?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm ?
Get over it, America. Plastic bags are a ubiquitous mess in trash dumps.
~(Ä)~

Karl Magnus on May 12, 2012 at 10:55 AM

I have reusable sacks that roll/fold up and tuck into a pocket or a purse. I love to use them at places like Target, where I get 5 cents off for using one, and I can limit my spending to whatever I can fit in that bag. I use them on small shopping trips, or at places like Costco and Ikea. For everything else, I like paper and plastic. My kids reuse the paper (and so do I, to recycle newspapers in), and we use the plastic in our litterbox (designed to used plastic shopping bags).

I think it’s asinine to ban plastic bags. They’re better than those crap bags grocery stores hawk in their place – those bags are awful for the environment too. And mine can be washed, too. The cheap ones can’t, and they get germy quick.

Anna on May 12, 2012 at 10:56 AM

LOL! Beat me to it and I have seen more than one of these articles.

Cindy Munford on May 12, 2012 at 10:53 AM

Ha. I was going to do the same, Cindy.

4Grace on May 12, 2012 at 10:58 AM

Those who lived through the advent of plastic grocery bags will recall that we were sold on the idea by environmentalists who claimed we’d be saving trees.

This is just one more example of enviro-nazi know-it-alls choking on their good intentions.

xstatic on May 12, 2012 at 10:58 AM

Radical environmentalists won’t be happy until we’re lugging our own cloth bags to the story like little old European ladies.

Drained Brain on May 12, 2012 at 10:44 AM

Not being “little” nor one of the “little old European ladies”, it made a helluva lot of sense to me. Try it some time. Your world might be a wee bit less expensive.
What is so damn difficult carrying a few empty cloth bags in the trunk of your car?
Just Curious
~(Ä)~

Karl Magnus on May 12, 2012 at 11:00 AM

Well now,what will Hopey do,if he has Left-overs from
dining out,on dog cousine,as in a doggy baggy!!
(sarc)

canopfor on May 12, 2012 at 11:01 AM

Lots of people use them to put garbage in. When they’re gone, where are we going to put the used kitty litter until it’s time to take it outside?

PattyJ on May 12, 2012 at 10:51 AM

Guess I’ll have to quit picking up after my dog in the park, too.

Quisp on May 12, 2012 at 11:02 AM

I can’t believe someone voted for the moron that made the statement about the horse and buggy.

He might have a valid point if the government 100 years ago was outlawing the horse and buggy and they didn’t go away due to technological advancements.

ButterflyDragon on May 12, 2012 at 11:08 AM

If I don’t write a shopping list and remember to take it, I will forget half of what I need to buy at the grocery store, it is a lead pipe cinch I am not going to remember to bring reusable bags to the store. Or remember to wash them so I don’t poison the whole family on a regular basis. But thanks for looking out for Mother Earth, you bunch of whackjobs.

Cindy Munford on May 12, 2012 at 11:08 AM

Get over it, America. Plastic bags are a ubiquitous mess in trash dumps.
~(Ä)~

Karl Magnus on May 12, 2012 at 10:55 AM

They have their usefulness.
It’s not up to the FEDERAL govt to do anything about this.
Now if these cities want to do stuff like this, have at it.
As a consumer, you can make your own choice.
But it is not up to YOU to force the rest of us to live by some code you live by.

Badger40 on May 12, 2012 at 11:09 AM

The councilman with his horse and buggy analogy does not seem to differentiate between technology rendering something obsolete and the government regulating what products may be produced.

radjah shelduck on May 12, 2012 at 11:10 AM

OMG! Another “critical” issue to address!

In the meantime, gas is going back up. Seems a couple of refineries are having problems. We’re low on our “special” blend of gasoline. We’re just one more refinery going down to cause major problems.

Saw one Shell station, $4.59/gal – that’s REGULAR gas BTW.

Not to worry, we’re gonna have a “bullet train”, and stamp out those EVIL plastic bags.

Hey! Let’s talk about ‘gay rights’ and ‘abortion’! You know, really CRITICAL issues!

GarandFan on May 12, 2012 at 11:10 AM

I’d like to see some numbers on this. What does it save in landfill or carbon or whatever. It seems to me, given the rather large amount of garbage we throw away each week, that the grocery store bags are a tiny portion in both weight and volume. Packaging for all the stuff we buy produces way more refuse.

So are the savings worth it when balanced with the inconvenience? Not every shopping trip is to the grocery store where you push around a cart to carry your dozen cloth bags.

I can tell Karl probably doesn’t do the shopping for the family, he thinks this is such a fabulous idea.

Allahs vulva on May 12, 2012 at 11:12 AM

Not being “little” nor one of the “little old European ladies”, it made a helluva lot of sense to me. Try it some time. Your world might be a wee bit less expensive.
What is so damn difficult carrying a few empty cloth bags in the trunk of your car?
Just Curious
~(Ä)~

Karl Magnus on May 12, 2012 at 11:00 AM

Again, not your call.
I use & re-use incessantly these plastic bags.
Over & over again. They are not useless.
Everybody has their own preferences.
It’s not your right to disparage others for using the damned bags if they feel it serves them better.

Badger40 on May 12, 2012 at 11:12 AM

canopfor on May 12, 2012 at 11:01 AM

…HEY!…next time…can you say: “see you in a week or two!” before you take a break like BMore did?…so we don’t all go crazy! ….Thanks a pantful!

KOOLAID2 on May 12, 2012 at 11:12 AM

Not being “little” nor one of the “little old European ladies”, it made a helluva lot of sense to me. Try it some time. Your world might be a wee bit less expensive.
What is so damn difficult carrying a few empty cloth bags in the trunk of your car?
Just Curious
~(Ä)~

Karl Magnus on May 12, 2012 at 11:00 AM

Personally, I do have some cloth bags in my trunk.

But, when I stop in the convenience store, I don’t grab one.

What happens the times someone forgets their bags at home? (Which I have done by forgetting to put them back in the car after putting the groceries away). I’ll tell you what happens when you forget, you turn around and drive back home (more gas burned) or you go ahead and buy more bags (cheapest I’ve found are $1, the ones I have were about $4 each)

ButterflyDragon on May 12, 2012 at 11:13 AM

What is so damn difficult carrying a few empty cloth bags in the trunk of your car?
Just Curious
~(Ä)~

Karl Magnus on May 12, 2012 at 11:00 AM

Oh. What is so dang difficult about WALKING to the store instead of using that hunk of plastics and metals and burning OIL to go to the store and be a holder for your empty cloth bags?

Sure, that question might seem silly today…

The point is that many of us see Government banning of something on this level to be meddlesome. Sure we all have things like this we overlook because most of us aren’t pure libertarians. But people already have the choice to bring a cloth bag — but they don’t want to be told by government fiat they don’t have the option of a light, “free,” and convenient bag at the store.

The oddity here is that such a ban crosses territory amongst liberal blocs. This ban will inordinately hurt lower income people of Los Angeles who tote these light plastic bags home from grocery stores by foot or using public transportation (ahem…unlike people who burn fossil fuels toting their cloth bags in their trunk) and who then reuse the bag for trash.

Meanwhile, the advocates of this bill will have no problem driving their Prius from their kitchy Los Feliz place to the nearest Whole Foods, pulling out their trendy hemp bag, and zipping back home to blast the A/C and ensure all their Apple products are draining the grid.

BruinEric on May 12, 2012 at 11:13 AM

Here is how you kill this stupid thing. Imbed a poison pill by making sure it includes the plastic bags that L.A. Times newspaper is wrapped in on wet mornings.

kurtzz3 on May 12, 2012 at 10:36 AM

Digs of old garbage dumps show that a shocking amount of the fill is newsprint, between 10 and 20%, and it’s nowhere near as degradable as thought. Fifty-year old papers have been dug up that are still legible.

We really need a deposit on newspapers, like with tin cans and bottles.

slickwillie2001 on May 12, 2012 at 11:14 AM

And when we get the health scare of rampant transmission of disease and fungus and pesticide residue, then we’ll all have to start using plastic liners in the canvas bags.

Fenris on May 12, 2012 at 11:14 AM

Curious. I remember when plastic bags were introduced. They were going to save us from the untold ravages of paper bags. You can look it up. These sorts of folks were just as cocksure then as now.

Mason on May 12, 2012 at 10:40 AM

Yes, I remember it was to Save The Trees and you were looked down upon as a heartless planet killer if you ask for paper. We will soon be reduced to growing all our own food, living in little one roon houses, cooking over a wood fire with only candles for illumination. Forward back to the future!

Ann on May 12, 2012 at 11:14 AM

It’s not your right to disparage others for using the damned bags if they feel it serves them better.

Badger40 on May 12, 2012 at 11:12 AM

OK. Maybe it’s your right, free speech & all.
But you come off as an arrogant d-bag.
And people need to be convinced. Not turned off.

Badger40 on May 12, 2012 at 11:15 AM

Look after I did my hitch, I did 31 years in grocery retail, everything from bagger to department manager,.. produce, to frozen, customer service to cashier,, till my injuries put me on the permanent disabled list.

I’ve seen all glass go to all plastic, from peanut butter jars, oil, syrup,.. all of it. I saw all paper bags go to just plastic,.. saw the recycle fad come and fizzle.. reuseable bags are a pain for a host of reasons…

People do not shop from day to day, most don’t live near a corner market, and even if they did, they usually have prices 50 to 100% higher than the national grocery chains. Meaning, working class families can’t afford to shop like urban Europeans, it simply costs too much. So they shop weekly or monthly, to save on food costs, and nobody is going to keep 30 cloth bags on hand to shlep to the store every two weeks.

and the post above is true..

Plastic was pushed by enviro’s to save the poor forests from being chopped down to make paper bags. Plastic bags were brought to you by the same green pinheads behind this fad.

I’ve seen every green lie decade after decade..

That Alar apple scare.. a lie,.. but it passed anyway, driving the cost of apples from 89 cents a lb. to 1.98 a lb… the oat bran craze.. tuna became a political football because of the dolphin issue..

at every turn.. the greens and supposed food advocates worked their will, and cheap nutritious food became ever more costly, pushing poorer families to go with what they could afford, over what they had always eaten before. Ramen noodles may be the best some can do any more, when before, they would have bought real vegetables, actual red meat, and made their meals from scratch,.. rather then relying on the now cheaper processed foods which aren’t even remotely as healthy.

These advocates have always ended up making poor families the butt of their efforts,… because the same green whack jobs pushing this, can afford to shop however they please.. where as the working class gets stripped of those choices by the same clowns claiming to speak for them.. 31 years.. of seeing the hrealth nazis work their will forcing people into worse choices, which they then.. claim need even more of their help..

screw them, people ate better, and cheaper when it was just the market and consumers making their own choices.

mark81150 on May 12, 2012 at 11:15 AM

The litterbugs ruin it for everyone. Speaking sentimentally, it’s a heck of an eyesore to drive down beautiful back roads in the Southwest and see windblown plastic bags everywhere, stuck in the barbed wire. They really can be a nuisance, not to mention when they get into waterways and wrap around one’s boat propeller.

Paper bags at least decompose. One would think that there would be a sustainable way to grow enough trees to replace the plastic bag. Yes, I know the stench and chemicals that paper mills produce, yet plastic bag production creates its own waste.

So I’m undecided on the issue. Yes, you hate to limit freedom. But plastic bags truly are a nuisance, too.

cane_loader on May 12, 2012 at 11:17 AM

Digs of old garbage dumps show that a shocking amount of the fill is newsprint, between 10 and 20%, and it’s nowhere near as degradable as thought. Fifty-year old papers have been dug up that are still legible.

We really need a deposit on newspapers, like with tin cans and bottles.

slickwillie2001 on May 12, 2012 at 11:14 AM

50+ Million Year old trees are only partially decomposed in the cutbanks of the Cannonball river by my house.
What do we do about that?////

I would say we just need better management of landfills.

Badger40 on May 12, 2012 at 11:17 AM

it’s just a nuisance to make sure you have those re-usable bags every time you go grocery shopping, especially if you do spontaneous trips to the grocery stores…funnily enough we keep a few of those reusables in both our our cars, but we usually go into the store only to realize once inside that we left the bags in the car…and no, we don’t go back in the parking lot to get them… besides, as someone mentioned up thread, try to imagine the amount of bacteria these reusable bags carry around after a while, unless you soak them in disinfectants after every use, and I am betting that all that disinfectant is not good for the evironment either :-)….but hey, it’s all worth it as long as you can inconvenience as many people as possible for as little if not insignificant results…

jimver on May 12, 2012 at 11:18 AM

San Jose banned them too. It didn’t really change my habits much, when I run out of plastic bags for the house stash I need for trash or whatnot, I do my grocery shopping in a neighboring city. I do use reusable vinyl ones mostly but plastic bags do come in handy so I do need a stash at home, paper even I use one for paper recycling and when it’s full I’ll dump the whole thing in the curbside recycle bin. Or sending the kids to school with various things they need to bring in separate from their backpack stuff I’ll never get back, paper or plastic. Like others said, if they ban disposible bags completely at stores, I’d probably be buying more, um, disposable trash bags. What is the point?

rose-of-sharon on May 12, 2012 at 11:19 AM

Ramen noodles may be the best some can do any more, when before, they would have bought real vegetables, actual red meat, and made their meals from scratch,.. rather then relying on the now cheaper processed foods which aren’t even remotely as healthy.

From what I’ve read, Ramen noodles have little more nutritional value than eating styrofoam, and also aren’t good for digestive health.

Their main purpose seems to be giving the feeling of a full stomach.

cane_loader on May 12, 2012 at 11:19 AM

This councilman ought to start by eliminating the use plastic bag waste basket liners in his office!!

Personally I depend on getting plastic bags from the grocery store to use as trash can liners for my kitchen waste. If I didn’t get them free, I would have to buy them. (I actually run out from time to time because I shop at a grocery store that charges for bags so I byo.)

KenInIL on May 12, 2012 at 11:23 AM

Radical environmentalists won’t be happy until we’re lugging our own cloth bags to the story like little old European ladies.

Drained Brain on May 12, 2012 at 10:44 AM

Not being “little” nor one of the “little old European ladies”, it made a helluva lot of sense to me. Try it some time. Your world might be a wee bit less expensive.
What is so damn difficult carrying a few empty cloth bags in the trunk of your car?
Just Curious
~(Ä)~

Karl Magnus on May 12, 2012 at 11:00 AM

So you’re perfectly okay with using the police power of government to achieve whatever ends you want?

So much for that whole ‘Liberty’ thing huh?

Chip on May 12, 2012 at 11:24 AM

BTW- I use paper for cold goods bcs I have to travel a ways to get home from the store.
I can drive several hours & the milk etc will still be cool enough after being wrapped in a double paper bag.
Paper & plastic BOTH have their uses.

Badger40 on May 12, 2012 at 11:25 AM

Meaning, working class families can’t afford to shop like urban Europeans,

mark81150 on May 12, 2012 at 11:15 AM

urban Europeans shop at supermarkets too, believe it or not, and it’s more the rule than the exception these days :-)… I was born and raised there…even a health obsessed person like my mom who always preferred buying fresh stuff to frozen, would do the weekly trip to supermarkets…

jimver on May 12, 2012 at 11:26 AM

Not being “little” nor one of the “little old European ladies”, it made a helluva lot of sense to me. Try it some time. Your world might be a wee bit less expensive.
What is so damn difficult carrying a few empty cloth bags in the trunk of your car?
Just Curious
~(Ä)~

Karl Magnus on May 12, 2012 at 11:00 AM

A few?

I have two kids, have a sister in law in my spare room when she and her kids became homeless.. 5 kids normally, 6 when her 17 year old visits.. a grocery trip for us is more like 30-40 bags, a monthly expedition, because we don’t live anywhere close to a supermarket and the two small corner markets charge 75% more for milk and eggs than the super market does.. and I live on a disability pension, I can’t simply up my income to cover the trendy cloth bag fad. Can’t just shop daily from the walking distance shops, unless 4.50 a gallon for milk sounds reasonable when we have to buy one a day for the kids.

You system works fine if you are just two or three.. not so much when the family is bigger.

Nobody minds if you love your cloth bags.. but others resent the Hell out of being forced to follow your choice, because other options are now illegal.

not very American is it,.. when a council can demand you pay higher costs, just to make them happy. and you aren’t saving much.. the average plastic bag costs the store a third of a penny.. and they charge ten bucks for each cloth bag they sell, which most greens don’t bother washing and end up as sanitary as a land fill.

mark81150 on May 12, 2012 at 11:28 AM

What is so damn difficult carrying a few empty cloth bags in the trunk of your car?
Just Curious
~(Ä)~

Karl Magnus on May 12, 2012 at 11:00 AM

what about the tonnes of bacteria that those bags will will carry around after a while…washing them all the time with detergents that – at least so are we told – are toxic/bad for the environment won’t do much good either, would it?

jimver on May 12, 2012 at 11:30 AM

mark81150 on May 12, 2012 at 11:15 AM

Nice post. Yes, the goal posts will always be moved by these “helpful” folks.

4Grace on May 12, 2012 at 11:31 AM

16 years ago I bagged groceries and plastic was the environmentally responsible option back then. I remember the visible disgust on some folks faces when presented with the option of paper bags. Plastic was recyclable and you had to save the trees after all. Funny how things change. I wonder if those same people are still asking for plastic or have their views now evolved?

aduneman on May 12, 2012 at 11:35 AM

There are four major problems with bag bans:

1. They are actually based on a misstatement in a study produced back around 2000 that was eventually corrected but not until the incorrect information (that is still quoted by environmental groups) got round the world twice.

2. They don’t work. Generally they find no difference in the amount of plastic trash before or after such a ban.

3. Reusable grocery bags are unsanitary unless washed after every single use and they spread diseases like norovirus.

4. It is *really* about the extra tax they then charge you for paper bags. They “outlaw” plastic and generally charge a 5 to 10 cent tax per paper bag. It is really about the revenue generation from that tax.

So once again “the environment” is used as a “hook” to get people to buy into parting with their hard earned for no good reason.

crosspatch on May 12, 2012 at 11:40 AM

WaPo: Romney once used a double bag in 1963. And bragged about it!

faraway on May 12, 2012 at 11:41 AM

I prefer using reusable bags over plastic and paper bags because they’re a lot less likely to break. We also carry a cooler to use pack cold stuff in. But sometimes we don’t have enough space and could use the other bags.

ninjapirate on May 12, 2012 at 11:42 AM

Get over it…
~(Ä)~

Karl Magnus on May 12, 2012 at 10:55 AM

These are the people of choice.

txhsmom on May 12, 2012 at 11:43 AM

In the Obama Economy, you don’t need as many bags. There’s that.

faraway on May 12, 2012 at 11:43 AM

Just for the record, this is perhaps one of the only enviro-fetish I can get on board with. Why is it terribly unreasonable to go back to ye’olde paper bag? It is recyclable, whatever jobs are lost in plastics can be made up for in logging and paper mills. Plastic bags are so cheap they are abused, I get 13 items in a store and get 11 bags to take them home in, seriously, when said items could easily fit in 4!

And it would go a long way to avoid “where plastic bags go to die”…

http://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=A2KJkK0khK5P2D4AGWmJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTBlMTQ4cGxyBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1n?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3Dwhere%2Bplastic%2Bbags%2Bgo%2Bto%2Bdie%2Bocean%26n%3D30%26ei%3Dutf-8%26y%3DSearch%26fr%3Dslv8-tyc8%26tab%3Dorganic%26ri%3D9&w=600&h=399&imgurl=www.newwood.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fjoncarrplasticsea.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newwood.com%2Ftag%2Fplastic-bags&size=64.2+KB&name=Mar.+11+-+Where+Plastic+Bags+Go+To+Be%E2%80%A6Reborn&p=where+plastic+bags+go+to+die+ocean&oid=0d7e52d6f12541d163c491101a5ad3a2&fr2=&fr=slv8-tyc8&tt=Mar.%2B11%2B-%2BWhere%2BPlastic%2BBags%2BGo%2BTo%2BBe%25E2%2580%25A6Reborn&b=0&ni=40&no=9&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=117ne6f6c&sigb=146v3p70k&sigi=11oqk0qf5&.crumb=/BMx5FOmPyG

Archimedes on May 12, 2012 at 11:44 AM

Digs of old garbage dumps show that a shocking amount of the fill is newsprint, between 10 and 20%, and it’s nowhere near as degradable as thought. Fifty-year old papers have been dug up that are still legible …

… plastic bags in landfills …

Environmentalists go on and on about how we need to spend money on carbon sequestration, when the easiest way to do it is to put paper and plastic bags in landfills.

jms on May 12, 2012 at 11:45 AM

What is so damn difficult carrying a few empty cloth bags in the trunk of your car?
Just Curious
~(Ä)~
Karl Magnus on May 12, 2012 at 11:00 AM

Rather presumptuous of you to assume everyone drives to the grocery store. Ever lived in, say, NYC? And just out of curiosity, how often do you wash your oh so superior cloth bags, and what do you do with your meat and poultry purchases? Can U say, “ICK”?

Buy Danish on May 12, 2012 at 11:46 AM

One thing plastic bags are great for is cooking catfish:

cane_loader’s Cajun catfish recipe,

using a Fry-Daddy, the best cheap deep-fryer ever invented (less than $40), using a plastic grocery bag a Ziploc bag AND a paper grocery bag!:

Trim, rinse and drain a pound or so of catfish filets. Cut them in half lengthwise. Then cut them horizontally, to give yourself some strips. I prefer to buy catfish “nuggets” which have a little more fat and flavor, but these aren’t available everywhere.

Put the drained pieces in a 1-qt. Ziploc bag, squirt about 3 Tbsp. of yellow mustard in the bag, and knead with your fingers to coat all pieces in mustard. Set the bag on the counter for an hour to marinate. The catfish pieces must be room temperature before frying them.

Set out a platter. Cut up a paper grocery bag to make 2-3 layers on the platter.

Take a plastic grocery bag and put in 1/2-cup of flour and 1/2-cup of white cornmeal. Add quite a few shakes of authentic Tony Chachere’s Cajun spice (the national spice of Louisiana – it’s sold in a green cardboard cylinder at many stores nationwide, just like seasoned salt), or some sort of spicy seasoned salt, to taste, and shake the bag to mix. You have to add some Tony’s – taste for saltiness – add some more – until you can taste the spice but not too salty.

Plug in the Fry-Daddy to heat the oil, about 10 minutes. You will be cooking the catfish in 3 batches, so as not to overly cool the oil.

When oil is hot, you may cook some fries or hush-puppies first, if desired.

After cooking fries, allow oil to reheat for 5 minutes.

Take 1/3 of the catfish pieces out of the Ziploc, shake off excess mustard, drop in the plastic grocery bag, twist neck to close, and shake vigorously.

Pull pieces out of bag, shake off excess coating mix, and carefully drop in the oil.

Let cook about 3 minutes until golden but not too brown, stirring once halfway through. Thicker pieces a bit longer, thinner a bit less. When the pieces float and the sizzling noise lessens, they are done. Scoop out, allowing excess oil to drip back, place them on the paper-bagged platter, gently press down once with a couple folded paper towels to remove excess oil, flip pieces and press down again lightly.

Allow oil to reheat for 5 minutes, and drop in second batch. Repeat for third batch.

Let cool on the paper-bag platter – its function is to allow the catfish pieces to become crisp as they cool, instead of soggy as they would get lying on paper towels. The brown-paper-bag trick works well for fries, or anything else fried.

Once cooled (this takes a bit longer than one would think – burnt tongue no good!), sprinkle catfish with a few drops of Tabasco, and serve on a plate with a generous squirt of ketchup for dipping!

C’est BON!

cane_loader on May 12, 2012 at 11:46 AM

Oh yeah:

cane_loader’s Cajun catfish recipe SERVES TWO.

cane_loader on May 12, 2012 at 11:47 AM

Jeebus!
The “Amerika Über Alles” crowd is feeling feisty today.
Uh Huh. And GM makes the best cars in the world too I suppose.
Believe it or not, sometimes Euros DO get it right.
(you zealots should travel more often)
~(Ä)~

Karl Magnus on May 12, 2012 at 11:49 AM

In the Obama Economy, you don’t need as many bags. There’s that.

faraway on May 12, 2012 at 11:43 AM

Lolz

4Grace on May 12, 2012 at 11:50 AM

Add quite a few shakes of authentic Tony Chachere’s Cajun spice (the national spice of Louisiana – it’s sold in a green cardboard cylinder at many stores nationwide, just like seasoned salt),

For clarity – I just looked – the official name is “Tony Chachere’s Crole Seasoning”

cane_loader on May 12, 2012 at 11:51 AM

4Grace on May 12, 2012 at 11:50 AM

Yikes, didn’t mean to hit strike button. More coffee.

4Grace on May 12, 2012 at 11:51 AM

Crole

Creole

Typing too fast- have to go take care of something.

cane_loader on May 12, 2012 at 11:52 AM

More coffee.

4Grace on May 12, 2012 at 11:51 AM

Hey! More coffee coming up. Hope you like it black!

cane_loader on May 12, 2012 at 11:52 AM

Actually, if you want to do so, the easiest way to create “clean coal” is to plant trees, produce paper and then use it for some purpose that adds value to the economy. When the paper is no longer useful, you create a slurry, compress the living daylights out of it, and pack it back into old coal mines. You can put back the carbon you took out in the first place.

The coal comes out and is burned producing CO2. The CO2 is taken up by trees and eventually put back into the coal mine as carbon in the form of highly compressed paper slurry.

crosspatch on May 12, 2012 at 11:52 AM

And just out of curiosity, how often do you wash your oh so superior cloth bags, and what do you do with your meat and poultry purchases? Can U say, “ICK”?

Buy Danish on May 12, 2012 at 11:46 AM

that! thank you, I tried to make that point several times on this thread, don’t think these people are aware of the potential health risk these unwashed reusables pose..let’s get serious, most people who will be forced to use them, won’t take the pain to actually wash them regularly…

jimver on May 12, 2012 at 11:54 AM

Good. Can we go back to paper grocery bags now? They were so much easier to handle, and you could get 5 plastic bags worth of groceries in one standard paper grocery bag. Let’s hope everyone has recovered from being overawed by those big-eyed college girls weeping over trees being harvested on tree farms. Those who haven’t can carry their groceries bagless, one can at a time.

Scriptor on May 12, 2012 at 11:55 AM

Guess this means I’m going to have to hoard these plastic bags like I am hoarding incandescent light bulbs in anticipation of a ban in our town./ The only time I remember to use the cloth bags is if I’m somewhere like Sam’s Club or Costco, and sometimes not even then.

There hasn’t been much talk about a ban on plastic bags in my area, but I suppose it’s only a matter of time. I seem to remember reading several years ago of an effort to make plastic grocery bags with certain kinds of plastic that would be biodegradable in landfills. The idea was that the plastic would eventually decompose into small particles, similar to the state paper turns into when it is burned.

One grocery store where I shop regularly must use these kinds of bags. They feel thinner and flimsier because I almost always have to ask that some items, especially boxes, cans and jars, be double bagged — they routinely tear and fall apart into a big plastic mess. But hey, let’s defeat the whole purpose, presumably, of cutting down on plastic bag use by using more of them. Way to go, environuts!

PatriotGal2257 on May 12, 2012 at 11:56 AM

Remember when laundry detergents actually cleaned your wash well in one load? The 70′s had it’s green jihad against the primary ingredient in luandry soap,.. claimed they were killing fish in all our rivers.. so laws got passed, and they banned phospates in soap.

so laundry detergent didn’t prove nearly as effective.. not till a couple of decades go by and other ingreients were discovered.

Everything used to be in glass.. vegetable oil, pancake syrup, peanut butter,.. everything. Then because breakage was a major loss of profit, plastic replaced the old cheap jars. Consumers liked them, stores loved them.. try cleaning up a gallon of vegetable oil of a tile floor sometime and you’ll see why. We used clay cat litter,.. but the market is why plastic became so commonly used.

Now, plastic we’re told is bad bad bad…

Not really, since they discovered adding cornstarch to it, caused it to break down faster than paper does.. but you’ll never convince a green of that.

I’m just saying.. let the market forces decide these things.. it’s better at it, and not nearly as sanctimonious and self righteous about it. People always opt for the cheaper options to feed their families, at least the working poor do, if they should ban anything, it’s allowing special interest groups to influence how families spend their food dollars.

My mother bought potatoes in 50lb. bags. Baked her own bread, made gravy, soup, stew, casseroles and deserts from scratch.. and passed those traits on to me. We ate red meat sparingly, fish and chicken mostly, and fresh fruit and vegetables whenever possible. She was a mom who raised kids from the mid fifties till the seventies.. and never caught on to the processed food habit.

I still do most of that, hamburger helper will never be found in my home.. though I rarely bake bread.. but I do love my bread machine.. beats rolling out the dough by hand.

People were trained by artificially induced costs to make bad food choices.. and now, those same people who pushed working families to make those choices, are bitterly complaining about how stupid folks are for being fat,.. or not eating as they are “supposed” to, for one by lil Miss (gimme that platter of ribs dammit) Michelle Obama.

Folks were better off without their input..

Cooking well is a lost art, people are only now seeing that and are trying to relearn lost skills..

mark81150 on May 12, 2012 at 11:59 AM

I’m actually with the conservatives on this. And I’m speaking as someone who supports brutal cafe standards on SUVs, high gas prices and green energy subsidies. Bag bans are a pain in the a** and do almost nothing compared to the immense piles of garbage otherwise generated.

urban elitist on May 12, 2012 at 12:00 PM

In the city where I live, they imposed a nickel fee on every plastic bag you get at the grocery store.

We should switch back to paper bags.

Maybe that nice fellow who lost his job when Romney shut down his paper factory will be able to work again.

Johnny 100 Pesos on May 12, 2012 at 12:03 PM

Guess this means I’m going to have to hoard these plastic bags like I am hoarding incandescent light bulbs in anticipation of a ban in our town.

PatriotGal2257 on May 12, 2012 at 11:56 AM

Yep. I probably have more plastic grocery bags than any other human being on the planet. I reuse them until they fall apart, and I’ve got a big stash I haven’t even started reusing yet.

My plan, if I ever live in a bag-ban area, is to shop with plastic kitchen trash bags. I’ll festoon them with glitter and doodads, roll them up, and carry them on shopping trips to bag my groceries with.

J.E. Dyer on May 12, 2012 at 12:06 PM

WaPo: Romney once used a bullied a bagger to double bag in 1963. And bragged about it!

faraway on May 12, 2012 at 11:41 AM

FIFY

Ogabe on May 12, 2012 at 12:09 PM

slickwillie2001 on May 12, 2012 at 10:43 AM
Cindy Munford on May 12, 2012 at 10:53 AM
4Grace on May 12, 2012 at 10:58 AM

Not disagreeing with you but you need a different article to support your point. Did you read it? They stored snacks in the bathroom the sick girl was using. Airborne virus contaminated the snack packages. The rest of the girls handled the packages and ate the snacks. Would have happened regardless of what kind of bag was used. Food shouldn’t be stored in a bathroom for any reason.

hopeful on May 12, 2012 at 12:09 PM

Saw one Shell station, $4.59/gal – that’s REGULAR gas BTW.

LOL, I love it that CA is pay a $1.10 more for gas than my red state

Wallythedog on May 12, 2012 at 12:11 PM

now the plastic bags are so thin they all need to be doubled and they still break-it’s ridiculous- i use more plastic bags now than i ever did before all the bans and histrionics. and all the stores here have recycle bins for them anyway- because street side recycling won’t take the bags.

the planet would be better served focused on the massive industrial environmental disaster that is China- but hush, better to focus on plastic bags and cookstoves than actual large scale and irrevocable harm and outrageous violations of human rights. the obama doctrine in full effect.

mittens on May 12, 2012 at 12:13 PM

My plan, if I ever live in a bag-ban area, is to shop with plastic kitchen trash bags. I’ll festoon them with glitter and doodads, roll them up, and carry them on shopping trips to bag my groceries with.

J.E. Dyer on May 12, 2012 at 12:06 PM

LOL! I think you may have opened up a new area for crafters who might be looking for something new to decorate. :D

PatriotGal2257 on May 12, 2012 at 12:13 PM

My plan, if I ever live in a bag-ban area, is to shop with plastic kitchen trash bags. I’ll festoon them with glitter and doodads, roll them up, and carry them on shopping trips to bag my groceries with.

J.E. Dyer on May 12, 2012 at 12:06 PM

I just use my NPR, ACLU and NARAL tote bags.

urban elitist on May 12, 2012 at 12:13 PM

Jeebus!
The “Amerika Über Alles” crowd is feeling feisty today.
Uh Huh. And GM makes the best cars in the world too I suppose.
Believe it or not, sometimes Euros DO get it right.
(you zealots should travel more often)
~(Ä)~

Karl Magnus on May 12, 2012 at 11:49 AM

The typical liberal patronizing continues apace.

Actually, my wife and I are retired and travel extensively (70 countries visited and well over a million miles flown in the past decade). We’ve spent weeks at a time in Germany (Meine Frau happens to speak German fluently). Germany is a wonderful place, as are many other countries; however, the more we travel the more we appreciate the liberty (what’s left of it) that we enjoy in the U.S.

I’d type more but my knuckles are sore from draggin’ on the ground, ya know.

Drained Brain on May 12, 2012 at 12:17 PM

I just use my NPR, ACLU and NARAL tote bags.

urban elitist on May 12, 2012 at 12:13 PM

What, no NAMBLA bag?

VegasRick on May 12, 2012 at 12:18 PM

What, no NAMBLA bag?

VegasRick on May 12, 2012 at 12:18 PM

So quick with the gay stuff.

Very revealing.

urban elitist on May 12, 2012 at 12:22 PM

Destroy another industry to help China. BTW, these bags are made from natural gas, not petroleum. And in our County we have noticed a distinct drop in the amount of goods purchased per trip as there is simply no way to get goods to the car without the bags.

pat on May 12, 2012 at 12:24 PM

People were trained by artificially induced costs to make bad food choices.. and now, those same people who pushed working families to make those choices, are bitterly complaining about how stupid folks are for being fat,.. or not eating as they are “supposed” to, for one by lil Miss (gimme that platter of ribs dammit) Michelle Obama.

Folks were better off without their input..

Cooking well is a lost art, people are only now seeing that and are trying to relearn lost skills..

mark81150 on May 12, 2012 at 11:59 AM

excellent, reasoned post and points that you make there…

jimver on May 12, 2012 at 12:28 PM

I just use my NPR, ACLU and NARAL tote bags.

urban elitist on May 12, 2012 at 12:13 PM

that’s what they live on now, since the congress cut their funds..selling tote bags?? oh my…must suck to be NPR, ACLU, etc…

jimver on May 12, 2012 at 12:32 PM

or not eating as they are “supposed” to, for one by lil Miss (gimme that platter of ribs dammit) Michelle Obama.

[snip]

mark81150 on May 12, 2012 at 11:59 AM

Actually, the Michelle quote is the one plastered on actual local billboards in my town advertising a local black-owned ribs chain:

“Ah laks da ribs!”

Syntax, man!

cane_loader on May 12, 2012 at 12:33 PM

What, no NAMBLA bag?

VegasRick on May 12, 2012 at 12:18 PM

hahaha priceless :)

jimver on May 12, 2012 at 12:33 PM

I just use my NPR, ACLU and NARAL tote bags.

urban elitist on May 12, 2012 at 12:13 PM

While I consider it better all around to have NRA, Heritage Foundation, and Road & Track tote bags, I wouldn’t use them to go grocery shopping. Not enough plastic in them.

J.E. Dyer on May 12, 2012 at 12:34 PM

So quick with the gay stuff.

Very revealing.

urban elitist on May 12, 2012 at 12:22 PM

more like pedophile than gay…or hey, you probably like that too…

jimver on May 12, 2012 at 12:37 PM

Reusable bags are clearly a growing health issue — an entire girls soccer team brought down violently ill caused by a norovirus passed through a reusable grocery bag:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_REUSABLE_BAG_VIRUS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-05-09-17-26-27

How many people are going to get sick and even die because of PREVENTABLE viral and bacterial infections spread by reusable bags?

EasyEight on May 12, 2012 at 12:40 PM

While I consider it better all around to have NRA, Heritage Foundation, and Road & Track tote bags, I wouldn’t use them to go grocery shopping. Not enough plastic in them.

J.E. Dyer on May 12, 2012 at 12:34 PM

The NRA has tote bags? Somehow, that seems so wrong. Unless they’re cammo.

(Picturing you walking around a gun show filling your tote bag with ammo and assorted hunting accessories from the various dealers, they way I do with fruit and vegetables at the farmers markets)

A lot of those tote bags are actually recycled from the plastic bags, but I suspect you’d find that recycling logo annoying.

urban elitist on May 12, 2012 at 12:41 PM

more like pedophile than gay…or hey, you probably like that too…

jimver on May 12, 2012 at 12:37 PM

VegasRick was the one whose thoughts went quickly to NAMBLA. He should probably be kept away from elementary schools, just in case.

urban elitist on May 12, 2012 at 12:44 PM

How many people are going to get sick and even die because of PREVENTABLE viral and bacterial infections spread by reusable bags?

EasyEight on May 12, 2012 at 12:40 PM

that’s one instance where you won’t hear the enviro nuts meme: ‘if it saves one person’ or ‘if it prevents one person from getting sick’ then it’s worth using plastic bags…

jimver on May 12, 2012 at 12:47 PM

Die, trees, die.

Ronnie on May 12, 2012 at 12:49 PM

Jeebus!
The “Amerika Über Alles” crowd is feeling feisty today.
Uh Huh. And GM makes the best cars in the world too I suppose.
Believe it or not, sometimes Euros DO get it right.
(you zealots should travel more often)
~(Ä)~

Karl Magnus on May 12, 2012 at 11:49 AM

snob much?

Look,.. why, why… do people like you, think that some particular euro habit is so superior, that it has to be forced on those provincial Americans, no matter how much they simply don’t want to do it?

Would you be so quick to take an American habit which is better, and force it on the Europeans even if they just didn’t want it?

oh, right,.. you’re so well traveled and cosmopolitan, you’d never see anything we do as better than those sophisticated Europeans.. after all, we’re just rubes….

Try this on for size.. most Americans don’t travel to Europe, except as military deployments, because we simply don’t have that kind of scratch.. you do understand that don’t you?

and the average European, is as profoundly ignorant of America, as you seem to think we are of them.

In addition, educated Europeans who do know lots of stuff about the world often compare themselves with non-educated Americans. They walk through New York and tell people, “Hi, I’m from Bulgaria, do you know where that is?” They’re horrified that New Yorkers don’t know crap about Bulgaria and conclude that Americans are geographically ignorant idiots, unlike the brilliant Bulgarians. Meanwhile, a girl from Laos goes to Bulgaria and asks the people she meets, “Do you know where Laos is?” You can guess the response. Please compare an educated, well-traveled American with an educated, well-traveled European; or the American on the street with the European on the street. You’ll discover the difference isn’t that big.

European vanity, that being so self styled smart and educated, anything not centered on them being the best and brightest, is labeled ignorant.

You seem fascinated by Europe,.. good for you, but the average European is as uninformed and ignorant of the US and the rest of the world, as they claim we are.

so loose the attitude.. they ain’t perfect,. certainly less so than any other group of peoples, and certainly less than the nation which they always turn too, after trashing us for not caring who the current EU leader is.. they can’t name the fifty states either,.. so is it ignorance, or just not needing that information enough to learn it?

After two centuries of Euro bleating about how dumb we are, you’ll just have to get over our tweaking them on occasion, between saving their a*ses as necessary.

so they love their cloth bags and their petty vanity and hubris over their self styled superiority over we mere mortals in the US.

Here’s a secret…

They are not demigods of virtue.. that we must always bow and scrape to when someone like you just happens to like one of their quirks.

That is the most annoying thing about euro apologists,.. that we are provincial chumps because we make our own choices without bowing to their superior knowledge… we just don’t like dragging around stinking dirty cloth bags.. let alone the euro habit of forgoing personal hygiene.. and armpit hair on their females.. the only country as fastidiously clean as we are is Japan.

I’d rather emulate them,.. at least they aren’t as arrogant and snotty.

mark81150 on May 12, 2012 at 12:50 PM

The NRA has tote bags? Somehow, that seems so wrong. Unless they’re cammo.

(Picturing you walking around a gun show filling your tote bag with ammo and assorted hunting accessories from the various dealers, they way I do with fruit and vegetables at the farmers markets)

A lot of those tote bags are actually recycled from the plastic bags, but I suspect you’d find that recycling logo annoying.

urban elitist on May 12, 2012 at 12:41 PM

Got my NRA tote bag in 1988, dear. It’s made of cotton and polyester.

They have brown paper bags at the farmers markets here.

I’m a fierce recycler, incidentally. What I’m not is a religious fanatic who believes that faddish prohibitions on everyone else will “save the planet.”

J.E. Dyer on May 12, 2012 at 12:50 PM

J.E. Dyer on May 12, 2012 at 12:50 PM

As I said upthread, I find the plastic bag prohibition annoying, well and, if nothing else perhaps we can find common ground on the dislike of “faddish prohibitions.”

I find the phrase “tote bag” incongruous when used to describe something with an NRA logo on it, by the way, because I mostly hear it used to describe something given away with a $50 gift during an NPR fundraising drive, and carried on the subway by middle-aged women with sensible haircuts off to their jobs at left-ish nonprofits. I think of the NRA as giving away something more aggressively-named. “Ordnance bags” or something.

urban elitist on May 12, 2012 at 1:00 PM

What has the unknown comic been using?

gbear on May 12, 2012 at 1:00 PM

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