Anti-bullying hero bullies conference of school children

posted at 11:46 am on April 28, 2012 by Jazz Shaw

Barack Obama and Joe Biden may be having second thoughts about assigning Dan Savage as their de facto “Anti-Bullying Czar” this year. According to Fox News, the sex advice columnist – Savage Love – and gay rights activist who founded It Gets Better seems to either have a hard time understanding the definition of bullying or has some serious issues with irony.

Really? So you picked a raunchy sex advice columnist who publishes a column called “Savage Love” as your ambassador to help out at risk children. What could possibly go wrong? Well, here’s what can possibly go wrong.

As many as 100 high school students walked out of a national journalism conference after an anti-bullying speaker began cursing, attacked the Bible and reportedly called those who refused to listen to his rant “pansy asses.” …

Savage was supposed to be delivering a speech about anti-bullying at the National High School Journalism Conference sponsored by the Journalism Education Association and the National Scholastic Press Association. But it turned into an episode of Christian-bashing.

Rick Tuttle, the journalism advisor for Sutter Union High School in California, was among several thousand people in the audience. He said they thought the speech was one thing – but it turned into something else.

“I thought this would be about anti-bullying,” Tuttle told Fox news. “It turned into a pointed attack on Christian beliefs.”

Tuttle said a number of his students were offended by Savage’s remarks – and some decided to leave the auditorium.

“It became hostile,” he said. “It felt hostile as we were sitting in the audience – especially towards Christians who espouse beliefs that he was literally taking on.”

The speaker, in a supposed attempt to encourage young people to behave in a civil fashion toward each other, immediately launches into a diatribe against Christian values. When some of the students – particularly a few of the young ladies – become offended, he berates them and engages in hostile name calling. This is the keystone of the anti-bullying campaign?

For anyone to be shocked by this outcome, you’d either have to be completely ignorant about the author’s history or … well… have a job at the White House, I suppose. For just one brief sample of the aforementioned “Savage Love” wisdom, click here. But before you do, I have to warn you… the language in this column is absolutely not safe for work and not appropriate for children to read. Also, if you are easily offended, don’t read it either. (Or at least don’t say I didn’t warn you.) I will not be reprinting any of the quotables here today.

UPDATE: (Jazz) I won’t embed it here because of the NSFW language, but if you want to watch Savage’s speech (along with all of the Christian students walking out) you can do so here. Link provided via Twitter by Ningrim.

But wait! We have located what is likely the primary source material Dan Savage used in developing this program. Watch the video and be amazed.


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Comment pages: 1 5 6 7

What’s all the fuss about? If you’re berating and denigrating Christians or conservatives, it isn’t bullying.

You folks really need to pay closer attention.

J.E. Dyer on April 29, 2012 at 12:00 PM

Wait, I’m confused. LibTards® embrace homos and muslims? How exactly does that work?

8thAirForce on April 29, 2012 at 12:34 PM

You won’t see me use profanity, well…not in excess anyway, or engage in name-calling whatsoever.
 
libfreeordie on April 28, 2012 at 5:13 PM

 
Nothing whatsoever like:
 

You’re a fool.
 
libfreeordie on March 22, 2012 at 7:41 PM

 

You’re ignorant.
 
libfreeordie on April 13, 2012 at 7:55 AM

 

Why does anyone care about this ridiculous diva?
 
libfreeordie on March 31, 2012 at 11:29 AM

 

No nimrod…
 
libfreeordie on March 28, 2012 at 10:14 PM

 

Because you’re a bold faced liar. And also just generally a weirdo.
 
libfreeordie on March 15, 2012 at 10:35 AM

 

Are you illiterate
 
libfreeordie on March 15, 2012 at 11:18 AM

 

tom…even the conservatives around here think you’re a joke.
 
libfreeordie on March 22, 2012 at 7:48 PM

 

But, go head Delores Van Cartier…
 
libfreeordie on April 28, 2012 at 5:13 PM

 

The ODS is strong with this one.
 
libfreeordie on April 15, 2012 at 8:15 AM

 

There’s no point in even trying to learn the facts for yourself. That would involve thinking.
 
libfreeordie on March 22, 2012 at 8:24 PM

 

Ah there’s the ignorant voices I’m used to seeing around here.
 
libfreeordie on March 8, 2012 at 4:42 PM

 

speaks to shallowness of your intellect. For someone who goes around giving grades you aren’t that critical a thinker.
 
libfreeordie on March 28, 2012 at 5:09 PM

 

I fear as a glenn beck listener it may have been *ages* since you’ve engaged in any of these activities). But yes, they all count as sex.
 
Or are you one of those people who had anal sex as a teenager and claimed to be a “virgin” as some evangelical kids have done to skirt the “saving it for marriage” rules.
 
libfreeordie on April 28, 2012 at 4:45 PM

 
I like you. You’re funny.

rogerb on April 29, 2012 at 1:14 PM

Dan Savage is the most vile human being on the planet. I can’t believe he was allowed to speak to students at a high school.

Here is another video that demonstrates just how sick this man truly is. CONTENT WARNING.

redridinghood on April 29, 2012 at 1:42 PM

#firedansavage has now begun on Twitter…the twitter fight is raging…

d1carter on April 29, 2012 at 2:44 PM

This thread is still going strong?

Or are you one of those people who had anal sex as a teenager and claimed to be a “virgin” as some evangelical kids have done to skirt the “saving it for marriage” rules.

libfreeordie on April 28, 2012 at 4:45 PM

There are Christians who ‘walk the walk’ and remain virgins into their 30s, 40s, 50s and beyond – no oral sex, no anal, no nothing.

The problem is, when Christians do indeed live up to the Bible’s teachings on sex (or other issues), they then get ridiculed, told they’re weirdos, uptight about sex, they’re prudes, and so on.

(Christian football player Tim Tebow has gotten a little bit of ribbing by some in the media and blogs for saying he’s a virgin, and I think he says he’s waiting until marriage to have sex.)

I don’t watch the ‘Glee’ show myself, but I’ve read reviews of it.

There was an episode where, I read, an adult visiting the school told the teen students who were still virgins (who were choosing to remain virgins) that they were uptight freaks, or there was something wrong with them because they weren’t sleeping around.

If Christians occasionally fail, as they will like anyone else, someone such as “libfreeordie” will call them hypocrites, but if Christians live out the faith consistently, they still get called names and insulted anyway. There is no winning.

(And that Christians will sometimes fail does not mean the biblical teachings they are failing to live up to false.)

TigerPaw on April 29, 2012 at 2:45 PM

I wanted to fix an error; I left out the word “are” in my last post:

(And that Christians will sometimes fail does not mean the biblical teachings they are failing to live up to are false.)

TigerPaw on April 29, 2012 at 2:49 PM

Bullying bludgeons, bullying screams, bullying torments and hounds and seeks to destroy another.

libfreeordie on April 28, 2012 at 5:13 PM

But you don’t seem outraged or disturbed that an adult male (homosexual activist) was bullying a bunch of teenaged kids over their faith.

You’re practicing selective indignation, which makes it hard to take your position seriously.

If you are truly against bullying, you would not be defending this Savage guy who was bullying people, and a bunch of kids at that.

TigerPaw on April 29, 2012 at 3:04 PM

You mention some U.S. Christians going to Uganda and hating on gays as if that by itself led the Ugandans to do what they did. Uganda is Uganda, and a 3rd world country, for a reason.

William Eaton on April 28, 2012 at 5:27 PM

I know some Christians have issues with pastor Rick Warren, but Rick Warren (author or “The Purpose Driven Life”) does seem to be a Christian. He is a pastor of a large Christian church.

Rick Warren Denounces the Uganda Anti-Gay Bill

Liberal gays are scared to tell the truth about Muslim homophobia

TigerPaw on April 29, 2012 at 3:13 PM

I think this was absolutely not the forum for Savage to make such comments. However, if one is a Christian but not a fundamentalist, a good discussion/argument over the meaning of biblical text and context is always interesting, at least to me.

Sheerq on April 29, 2012 at 3:15 PM

So, no one here is buying the shell fish, slavery, stoning argument?

richardporter on April 29, 2012 at 3:26 PM

I think Savage’s comments on that are interesting and provocative. If one group gets to pick and choose which biblical text is still relevant, why can’t homosexuals do the same?

How many posters here are ready to comdemn people who get divorced?

Sheerq on April 29, 2012 at 3:44 PM

Sorry for the lateness of this . . . then what does require a Class III FFL?

listens2glenn on April 28, 2012 at 10:15 PM

.

You need the FFL to sell them, to import them, to manufacture them (different types, of course; and that sort of thing. But the “license” to own an NFA item is the Tax Stamp that is issued by ATF.

And, if you’re planning on buying more than just one NFA item, an ‘NFA Trust’ is the way to go. That way, you avoid the bother of fingerprints, permission from your ‘chief law enforcement officer’ (CLEO), record check, etc. You can find an attorney to set one up for you through the NRA.

Solaratov on April 29, 2012 at 12:07 AM

.
Thanks for the education. That’s a lot more than I Knew yesterday morning.
I’ve got no plans to acquire a fully-auto firearm any time soon, but that’s all good info to have, anyway.

listens2glenn on April 29, 2012 at 4:40 PM

#firedansavage has now begun on Twitter…the twitter fight is raging…

d1carter on April 29, 2012 at 2:44 PM

Love it- Welcome to the New Media.

redridinghood on April 29, 2012 at 4:49 PM

I think Savage’s comments on that are interesting and provocative. If one group gets to pick and choose which biblical text is still relevant, why can’t homosexuals do the same?

How many posters here are ready to comdemn people who get divorced?

Sheerq on April 29, 2012 at 3:44 PM

Pretty sure like in most things, you’d go to the people who can make the most valid claim to authority. Which in the case of the Bible would be the Roman Catholic Church – the people who authored the text, the people who have historically valid and verifiable ties dating all the way back to Peter.

You can’t stop people from claiming their interpretation is the right one, but merely making such a claim doesn’t lend it instant validity. You also can’t stop people who hate something from trying to pervert and distort it. Their perversions and distortions also shouldn’t be given credibility under some banner that dissent for it’s own sake lends validity to an interpretation.

Savage, like most Christian bashers, argues from ignorance.

BKennedy on April 29, 2012 at 4:58 PM

Sheerq on April 29, 2012 at 3:44 PM

His comments oversimplified what actually transpired in the history of biblical interpretation, some of which is quite embarassing for some folks but also isn’t as cut-and-dried as he implied. I agree with some of what he was saying, in general, though I would pick some nits. I find such discussions interesting to have, as well as having my own assumptions/beliefs challenged. Having said that, the manner in which he delivered his remarks was deliberately provocative and offensive which renders any kind of real discussion impossible. The forum was also incredibly stupid to use for such a harrangue, which is exactly what Savage’s speech was. A speech about bullying that itself comes perilously close, if not crosses, the line into bullying? Such remarks, style and language in front of high school kids? And folks are supposed to take him seriously and join his cause? Are you serious? He made himself a parody of Brian Fischer of AFA, which does gay rights no favors. Again, someone like John Corvino could have done this in the right manner, in the proper place and with respect for those who disagree with him that would have actually sparked REAl conversation among all sides. Not Savage. He’s a verbal bomb-thrower and loose cannon. That’s great if I want to just strike back at those who might tick me off but not so good for making reasonable appeals in changing hearts and minds.

JohnAGJ on April 29, 2012 at 5:01 PM

I’d also like to note for posterity I find the entire construct of a class of rights like “gay rights” ridiculous on its face.

What rights could a person’s sexual proclivities possibly necessitate? That’s something no one needs know about, and the suggestion it’s an immutable part of someone’s identity is laughable. The inability to properly relate to the opposite gender or the same gender is not an immutable status, it is merely a behavioral flaw that usually doesn’t result in adverse effects unless the urges it creates are acted upon.

Everyone struggles with something. The fact homosexual activists seem to be inordinately angry and unhappy even if they do have partners should be an indication something else is going on.

Of course, that’s just my interpretation.

BKennedy on April 29, 2012 at 5:43 PM

How many posters here are ready to comdemn people who get divorced?

Sheerq on April 29, 2012 at 3:44 PM

.
Who here is condemning anyone for homosexuality?

Maybe a better question would be:
What constitutes condemnation?

listens2glenn on April 29, 2012 at 6:11 PM

Who here is condemning anyone for homosexuality?

Maybe a better question would be:
What constitutes condemnation?

listens2glenn on April 29, 2012 at 6:11 PM

I apologixe, I did not mean to imply that anyone here on HA did.

I post not infrequently – I should’ve known better.

Sheerq on April 29, 2012 at 7:02 PM

I think Savage’s comments on that are interesting and provocative. If one group gets to pick and choose which biblical text is still relevant, why can’t homosexuals do the same?

How many posters here are ready to comdemn people who get divorced?

Sheerq on April 29, 2012 at 3:44 PM

I don’t see any divorced people marching in the streets, telling everyone how proud they are about their divorces, nor do I see them rushing out to get married and divorced, over and over again. I happen to hate divorce, but it’s a necessary evil in our society, so I don’t condemn people who get divorced, but I would condemn whatever behavior they engaged in, i.e. adultery, abuse, or whatever led to their divorce. You’re not comparing apples and oranges, and neither was Savage. He was distorting Christian beliefs to make his “points.”

The main point about him, though, is he was preaching his own hatred, toward Christians, while decrying others for what he perceived to be their hatred. He has a history of hatred toward people who disagree with him, and he obviously believes that anything is acceptable if it’s done in the name of his “cause.” He’s a hypocrite, a liar, and a pig…not to mention a bully. Yet some liberals here are defending him, because it’s okay to bully people they disagree with. This is a very enlightening thread.

JannyMae on April 29, 2012 at 7:14 PM

make sure not to address the root of his argument because you can’t argue against the fact that it’s true. All denominations pick and choose themes that they want to back or don’t. Then they just say that those verses weren’t literal, or applied to a certain time frame. If your unchanging god once said that slavery was morally permissible then regardless of the time or covenant being upheld then your god is not up to our modern moral standards. In fact ask a rabbi how old a girl has to be before you can marry her.

Zekecorlain on April 29, 2012 at 7:34 PM

God bless the kids who walked out. God D**n the gays. I hate the rhetoric and their demands. Live your life in private and shut the hell up.

MNDavenotPC on April 29, 2012 at 7:45 PM

Savage is an insufferable piece of walking excrement. not because he’s gay, but because he’s a vulgarian who speaks filth at people not just for what they say, but because he hates what they represent and supposedly think in his tiny reptilian brain.

If he were in a forum where he was addressing a group of adults, who had been invited knowing that Savage was going to bring his brass knuckles, and had a chance for a Q and A where they could challenge his brutal bullying.. that one thing..

but,

He had a captive audience of minors with no opportunity to challenge him and his moronic opinions, they could do nothing but endure it,.. or walk out.. which many did.. only to have the scum king backbite them as they left.. with certain bully enablers giggling their pin headed glee at watching the nice kids get smeared..

Savage should be fired, and fired publicly.

No apology acceptable, because humiliation is what he deserves for attacking children for the great sin of being Christian in Savages world. He went after children, because he knows they can’t fight back..

mark81150 on April 29, 2012 at 7:51 PM

@MNDavenotPC why should I live my life in private? what laws am I breaking?

Zekecorlain on April 29, 2012 at 7:51 PM

@mark81150 so christian’s don’t pick and choose the rules they want to follow? Or teens in a journalism event shouldn’t have to face the facts of their own religion because they can’t be allowed to know the weak foundations of their own faith’s traditions and holy books? Is there an age when people should be allowed to question such things? is it 21? 22? 35?

Zekecorlain on April 29, 2012 at 7:54 PM

I think this was absolutely not the forum for Savage to make such comments. However, if one is a Christian but not a fundamentalist, a good discussion/argument over the meaning of biblical text and context is always interesting, at least to me.

Sheerq on April 29, 2012 at 3:15 PM

Quoting Leviticus is boorish hackery. There is much in the Old Testament that is not followed by devote Christians, but people like Savage are more interested in spreading their hateful views then in an honest discussions about anything. The Old Testament surrenders to the New Testament in most cases. And the New Testament pretty much says if you don’t want to get into Heaven commit homosexual acts. I may be paraphrasing slightly.

And the above is not hate speech or bullying, because if it was believing people will not get into Heaven unless they accept Jesus into their lives should also be considered hate speech and bullying.

Ultimately what Dan Savage wants is for everyone to conform to his worldview or else.

NotCoach on April 29, 2012 at 7:55 PM

Zekecorlain on April 29, 2012 at 7:54 PM

Do you understand what it was he was supposed to be addressing?

NotCoach on April 29, 2012 at 7:56 PM

@mark81150 I listened to the whole thing, plus his apology. but yes I do. However I also listened to his point that religion is a matter of personal choice and that claiming to be constrained by the document that you already cherry picked is a fairly silly. Besides as a point of free speech he didn’t force anyone to stay or change their position he merely presented his own. But modern day christian’s say that even speaking ill of their bible is not permissible despite widely quoting it for public policy. So if you say on one hand that this book is the foundation of your faith but no one can read it or point out inconsistencies then who is really being the hypocrite?

Zekecorlain on April 29, 2012 at 8:04 PM

@NotCoach He also quoted from the new testament….

Zekecorlain on April 29, 2012 at 8:13 PM

Zekecorlain on April 29, 2012 at 7:54 PM

No, I don’t think you understand the point of his presence at this event.

NotCoach on April 29, 2012 at 8:17 PM

@NotCoach He also quoted from the new testament….

Zekecorlain on April 29, 2012 at 8:13 PM

I know, but his starting point was Leviticus. It is a tired and childish refrain from childish thinkers. Tough luck though if he doesn’t like the fact that the New Testament considers homosexual acts to be a sin. But what the hell does any of this have to do with bullying? He wasn’t addressing bullying, he was attacking anyone who dares to not condone his lifestyle. Is his job to stop bullying or bully people into embracing homosexuality?

NotCoach on April 29, 2012 at 8:21 PM

make sure not to address the root of his argument because you can’t argue against the fact that it’s true.

No,.. the root of his argument rant.., is I HATE YOU!!.. and then he cherry picks certain lines from the Bible, ones no one currently follow, making the ignorant argument,.. hey.. if you ignore this one.. you MUST IGNORE the ones I tell you too… and all Christianity is stupid anyway.. Well he can believe whatever he likes,.. but he ignores the enlightment, and the fact most all Christians don’t spend their days worrying about teh gay… to me, it’s a sin, but we are all sinners,.. so are people who sleep around, and serial divorces are a sin.. I don’t treat any of these people badly just for that. Most Christians don’t, living under the basic concept of hate the sin, but love the sinner.. and judge not.. lest ye be judged..

He’s arguing with a strawman. One he built with every distortion and twisted view of a loving faith he could think of. He then, glued it to a bat.. and beat high school kids in the face with it..

All denominations pick and choose themes that they want to back or don’t. Then they just say that those verses weren’t literal, or applied to a certain time frame.

Are you really suggesting we need to follow old testement justice, or none at all?

If your unchanging god once said that slavery was morally permissible then regardless of the time or covenant being upheld then your god is not up to our modern moral standards.

I’m sure God is mortified that you find him not up to your standards..

In fact ask a rabbi how old a girl has to be before you can marry her.

Zekecorlain on April 29, 2012 at 7:34 PM

That was a vile gratuitous slap at the Jewish faith,, which isn’t even in the argument..

How about you go ask a Muslim cleric the same..

You want the list of crimes committed in the name of a secular atheism? The sins and crimes of purely nonreligious states and their rule of rational logic and pure intellect?

The 100 million dead from communism is just the worst, but hardly the last. considering most crimes associated with Christianity were done in the days well before there were close to a single billion people on this earth.. the sum total of Christian “crimes” has no where near the body count secularists have accumulated..

you stick with your valueless system, I’ll keep my faith and it’s aspirations..

mark81150 on April 29, 2012 at 8:23 PM

Zekecorlain on April 29, 2012 at 8:04 PM

Wow, is that ever feeble. Is that the best you have? Really?

Midas on April 29, 2012 at 8:30 PM

I just watched the video. I don’t get what the problem is.

There is an element of hypocrisy to taking one aspect of Leviticus (gays are bad) and not another (shellfish is bad). It is appropriate for someone to make that argument.

And his tone wasn’t that bad. From the description here, I thought he was going to angrily yell that people are “pansy-asses” but that wasn’t what happened either.

Mister Mets on April 29, 2012 at 8:31 PM

@NotCoach most people see the old testament as the moral foundation of the christian faith, in fact my own parents point to it as the guiding path to morality (yes I know all the arguments from Romans and Hebrew’s to counter that as they do to, but because they say that the law was perfect the things it condemns must still be wrong. Savage’s point was that if we wouldn’t condone the same behavior now as moral then we have already surpassed the bible as a moral code and that if you choose to accept it as the foundation of your faith then you must accept that we already know the old law wasn’t perfect. You are ignoring this point because it’s true, the new testament does say the old law was perfect. But we know it’s not. You might accept the new covenant as your faith but it’s claimed that the same god wrote them both. That is the peg you must square.

Zekecorlain on April 29, 2012 at 8:35 PM

@mark81150 how is actually learning about the jewish faith and telling people to learn about it a slap in the face? Do you blindly accept that all religions are perfect and not to be questioned? Is polygamy a sin? or did the mormons have it right? is slavery morally permissible?I don’t see any point in Savage’s lecture where he was advocating for atheism? Can you point that out? Savage didn’t stop in his critisim of islam or buddism so I can’t fault him for pulling punches as you say he did.

Zekecorlain on April 29, 2012 at 8:39 PM

@Voter from WA State having read the bible twice and ben raised with it, I’m well aware of the inconsistencies, I’m also aware of it’s dubious origin, are you? Until you pass blasphemy laws again, I’ll capitalize whatever I care to, nothing is sacred, the bible says that, are you now going against it too?

Zekecorlain on April 29, 2012 at 8:41 PM

Someone upthread mentioned an apology. Did Savage make one? If it’s the one on the video–”I’m sorry if I hurt anyone’s feelings”–that’s not an apology. Not really.

There’s a second before he says “pansy..” when he smirks to himself as if to say, “Am I going to actually say this? Yes. Yes I am.”

These kids deserve a more formal apology. So do the taxpayers, if he’s our employ via Obummer.

Grace_is_sufficient on April 29, 2012 at 8:53 PM

@NotCoach I’m well aware of all those arguments, if you claim to not be able to express them and debate them yourself what is the point of this tangent? I’m not trying to be rude but if the argument is so ethereal you can’t follow it, are you saying you accept it blindly? I’m not trying to be rude, but this format is limited to ideas you can bring to bear, if mentioning them is childish and debating them is beyond your keen, then what exactly is your position? Shouldn’t you take the time to make sure you agree with the arguments you are espousing? I had to because I’m gay and my family threw all this in my face. When I studied it, I found that the idea of a monogamous gay relationship is not condemned in the bible at all, rather hookups and promiscuous sex. That isn’t even taking into account the huge cultural differences in cultures that we are faced with. To be blunt one of the few areas in the world still following a similar code of conduct is Afghanistan, even there gay sex is widely ignored I have to imagine that the middle east of the biblical time was similar. Were there not male temple prostitutes? David and Jonathan, the strict segregation of genders? It seems to me the facts are not what they seem. Regardless after studying islam and christianity, I decided that the god of both religions was shamefully lacking in what the modern times would consider even basic morality.

Zekecorlain on April 29, 2012 at 8:59 PM

When I studied it, I found that the idea of a monogamous gay relationship is not condemned in the bible at all, rather hookups and promiscuous sex

Actually your statement right there show a disntinct lack of theological study. Sexual intimacy in a biblical sense was for married couples, and Jesus pointedly says= men and women.

That being said, most Christians know that EVERYONE sins, and most of us are worrying about our own end times.

The point of the seminar was anti-bullying. Christian children were there because they cared about the issue. Instead of Savage using the platform to advance education about homosexuality; he used it as a platform to go after someone else belief system ignorantly. You don’t get people on your side that way. And certainly you don’t do that in a forum that includes minors. It leaves a sour taste in people’s mouths, and it certainly sours people off of homosexual causes.

melle1228 on April 29, 2012 at 9:09 PM

Zekecorlain on April 29, 2012 at 8:59 PM

I’m so delighted that you are proud of your profound ignorance. It must be wonderful being a pole smoking libertine. So liberating that logic and ignorance can be tossed away as carelessly as your boy toy’s boxer briefs.

tom daschle concerned on April 29, 2012 at 9:17 PM

@NotCoach I’m well aware of all those arguments, if you claim to not be able to express them and debate them yourself what is the point of this tangent? I’m not trying to be rude but if the argument is so ethereal you can’t follow it, are you saying you accept it blindly?

Zekecorlain on April 29, 2012 at 8:59 PM

I really don’t think you are aware of much. And as I said put better then I could. There is no shame is using the words of others to make a point or say exactly what would be said anyways.

I’m not trying to be rude, but this format is limited to ideas you can bring to bear, if mentioning them is childish and debating them is beyond your keen, then what exactly is your position? Shouldn’t you take the time to make sure you agree with the arguments you are espousing?

I love how those who insist on trying argue that Christians are always wrong about their own faith practice this strange obtuseness. Yes, using Leviticus as a starting point is childish. Leviticus is the old law. Christians were released from the old law.

I had to because I’m gay and my family threw all this in my face. When I studied it, I found that the idea of a monogamous gay relationship is not condemned in the bible at all, rather hookups and promiscuous sex. That isn’t even taking into account the huge cultural differences in cultures that we are faced with. To be blunt one of the few areas in the world still following a similar code of conduct is Afghanistan, even there gay sex is widely ignored I have to imagine that the middle east of the biblical time was similar. Were there not male temple prostitutes? David and Jonathan, the strict segregation of genders? It seems to me the facts are not what they seem. Regardless after studying islam and christianity, I decided that the god of both religions was shamefully lacking in what the modern times would consider even basic morality.

All of the above are your own personal issues. I have no guidance for you in this regard. None of it has anything to do with Savage and his dishonest bullying of Christians.

NotCoach on April 29, 2012 at 9:23 PM

@mark81150 how is actually learning about the jewish faith and telling people to learn about it a slap in the face? Do you blindly accept that all religions are perfect and not to be questioned? Is polygamy a sin? or did the mormons have it right? is slavery morally permissible?I don’t see any point in Savage’s lecture where he was advocating for atheism? Can you point that out? Savage didn’t stop in his critisim of islam or buddism so I can’t fault him for pulling punches as you say he did.

Zekecorlain on April 29, 2012 at 8:39 PM

You don’t see a Hell of a lot..

I read the transcript.. and I haven;t seen Savage’s apology anywhere, it’s not linked to here, or at the News link the story first appeared in. It was mentioned in passing as a sarcastic slap that these teens..

So he can ram his apology in sidways with rocksalt.

When you rant at teens, tell them their faith is bullsh*t, rant about all the inconsistencies.. then blame them and by implication all people of faith for gay bashing…

What the Hell else is he advocating?

He made it plain he holds faith and the people who have it in contempt.. there is only one other option now isn’t there?

You make all kinds of excuses for Savage.. he’s a vulgarian who loves to shock.. and while you and some others may get off on that, to most people, he comes across as a pig, a vile nasty swearing vulgar shock jocking piece of work.

You get a warm fuzzy over that,.. so.. what.

He was supposed to be educating these kids about bullying, what he did, was bully them in open vengeance for the bullying he faced as a gay kid.. his speech almost admits as much..

He blames Christians, for gay bashing..

the ignorant part.. totally stone cold stupid on it’s face note that he and .. you,… ignore.

Is gay bashing isn’t done by church going kids,.. it just isn’t.. the gay bashing is almost always done by the same regular old bully;s who beat you up for being short, or wearing glasses, or having red hair.. they aren’t church going types, never have been..

I’m straight and I fought bully’s from 1st through 12th, almost every day in grade school, and every week in jr. high.. one a month in high school.. Try going through public school in the 60′s and 70′s with two developmentally handicapped brothers, then tell me about bullies.. I know them like I know any enemy).. I was nearly expelled three times for fighting,.. being blamed for fighting back.. because it was easier to quash the good kids for fighting back, than the bully’s whom the teachers never seemed to notice.

Savage is blaming the wrong people, and Christian bashing is a fools game, it’s easy, lazy and cheap, costs you nothing..

because we won’t find you in the parking lot.. not what we do..

Savage is exactly the type, which makes me think he’s lying about his past.. someone who is bullied badly, almost never becomes a bully, Savage is one.. so I doubt he was any different in school..

I doubt his teachers hated him for being gay, so much,.. as being a bullying a-hole.. He goes after Christian kids.. the least likely to bash him for it..

and you think that’s ok?

mark81150 on April 29, 2012 at 9:26 PM

because we won’t find you in the parking lot
 
mark81150 on April 29, 2012 at 9:26 PM

 
You know, when I studied it, I found that the idea of attacking someone in a parking lot is not condemned in the bible at all, rather…
/

rogerb on April 29, 2012 at 9:32 PM

I had to because I’m gay and my family threw all this in my face.

Zekecorlain on April 29, 2012

So you have issues with Dad about being gay,.. and he tried to talk you out of it..

How the HELL is that the fault of all Christians? A lot of gays pull this crap,.. family religious, family freak out on me teh gay,.. so religion bad bad bad… they love me better if no religion.

Son,..

I hate to break this to you, but your families issues about you being gay, aren’t because of the Bible, a very great many secular families have the same problems with accepting, does that makes atheism or secularism your enemy too?

Does it?

You end up, hating something, that does not do you the courtesy of hating you back. You can point to inconsistencies, and claim they are reason to not believe.. even when they have been explained by scholars far more versed in the written word than a layman looking for reasons to refute his families faith..

If my children ended up gay, I would not stop loving them… I would be hurt beyond words, but I wouldn’t turn them away,.. few parents would.. don’t think we’re your family,. acceptance is easy enough,.. just don’t try and explain to us it’s a wondeful thing,.. it’s not. Crushing a parents dreams of what might have been, grandchildren.. great grand children.. that takes alot o healing to overcome,.. it’s not the Bible which crushed those dreams in your parents.. a preconceived notion of what you would grow up to be.. try compassion instead of ridiculing their faith,.. that would serve you much better than tearing at the one thing which gives them comfort.

even if they were secular, I doubt their reaction would be much different..

and you will have wasted your time attacking other peoples faith for no other reason than you’re mad at your parents.

mark81150 on April 29, 2012 at 9:53 PM

mark81150 on April 29, 2012 at 9:26 PM

You know, when I studied it, I found that the idea of attacking someone in a parking lot is not condemned in the bible at all, rather…
/

rogerb on April 29, 2012 at 9:32 PM

nicely done… put a sharpened edge on it and everything..

mark81150 on April 29, 2012 at 9:54 PM

Question: “Do Christians have to obey the Old Testament law?”

Answer: The key to understanding this issue is knowing that the Old Testament law was given to the nation of Israel, not to Christians. Some of the laws were to reveal to the Israelites how to obey and please God (the Ten Commandments, for example). Some of the laws were to show the Israelites how to worship God and atone for sin (the sacrificial system). Some of the laws were intended to make the Israelites distinct from other nations (the food and clothing rules). None of the Old Testament law is binding on us today. When Jesus died on the cross, He put an end to the Old Testament law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:15).

NotCoach on April 29, 2012 at 8:44 PM

I’m going to diverge from you here on this one.
Jesus said he came to Fulfil the law not to destroy it.

When asked about which commandment was most important Jesus answered that you should Love The Lord thy God with all your heart all your soul and all your mind and that you should Love your neighbor as yourslef.

If you examine the Ten Commandmants you will notice that Commandmants 1 thru 5 are instructions on what to do in order to Love The Lord and Commandments 6 through 10 are instructions on what to do in order to Love your Neighbor.

So portions of the Law is binding upon us, and we would do well to follow.

jaydee_007 on April 29, 2012 at 10:36 PM

NotCoach on April 29, 2012 at 8:44 PM

.
If you examine the Ten Commandmants you will notice that Commandmants 1 thru 5 are instructions on what to do in order to Love The Lord and Commandments 6 through 10 are instructions on what to do in order to Love your Neighbor.

So portions of the Law is binding upon us, and we would do well to follow.

jaydee_007 on April 29, 2012 at 10:36 PM

.
That is an excellent analysis of the Ten Commandments.

The Levitical Law, with all of it’s individual, specific rituals and sacrafices, is what we do not have to live under today.

listens2glenn on April 29, 2012 at 10:50 PM

BREAKING NEWS

Muslim building Caliphate President supports Christian bashing tolerance Nazi?

Shocking!!!

PappyD61 on April 29, 2012 at 11:49 PM

So portions of the Law is binding upon us, and we would do well to follow.

jaydee_007 on April 29, 2012 at 10:36 PM

Yes, many things in the mew law mirror exactly, or almost exactly, many things in the old law.

NotCoach on April 30, 2012 at 12:28 AM

http://www.breitbart.com is doing what they do best: the drip-drip-drip of things they’ve found via investigative journalism. This guy has a readily available [vulgar, disrespectful] track record, and the Obama admin willingly overlooked it. It’s time they own it.

hoosiermama on April 30, 2012 at 8:52 AM

The only part of the Bible this guy agrees with is ‘turning the other cheek’.

lhuffman34 on April 30, 2012 at 9:53 AM

Things that Savage said and counter info he should keep in mind:

1. On Savage’s take on the bible calling for “slavery”— remember Moses led the slaves out of bondage from Egypt?

2. On the bible calling for “racism”—remember Moses married a black woman , an Ethiopian woman? Her name was Zipporah and no one heckled him about being committed to her.

3. On the bible calling for being “bigoted”— remember that it is common that we are to “love thy neighbor”? As everyone knows, it’s good/needed to have compassion/respect for one another and at the same time see the significance in differences. For example when it comes to gender you can be the nicest guy, but see if your welcomed at public women’s restroom–there’s a difference. That is why there is a reason to have compassion and standards. If you don’t think so, I guess you can try it, but…look out.

4. On slave owners using the bible to make their case— remember those were a few nut jobs and 90% of southerners did not own slaves? Or, that this country lost hundreds of thousands of Americans to end slavery. Just look at the writing of Lincolns assassin–Booth hated him for making an end to slavery.

5. On not eating shell fish in the bible —OK, I can’t remember the last time a person was an “abomination”, in a religious community, for going to Sizzler.

6. On St. Paul and slavery—remember when Paul said, “There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”? How about when Paul told a slave owner, Philemon, to see his slave Onesimus as his “beloved brother”? Later on that very slave owner freed, Philemon, his slave Onesimus.
Think of all the ministries that Christians launch to help bring water to people, shelters for the poor, the battered and even homes for people diagnosed with AIDS/HIV i.e. Mother Teresa.

It would be better for Dan Savage to recognize that there are good hearted people on both sides. Agree to disagree with what bothers him. Finally, take part with what should be non-partisan; bringing about more “Ralphies” i.e. from the Christmas Story. And, not fulfill the meaning of a bully pulpit.

Mike from SoCal on April 30, 2012 at 12:04 PM

Way to go there, aptly named Savage. Why you think being an obnoxious git will win people to your cause sure has me baffled.

Pilgrimsarbour on April 30, 2012 at 12:41 PM

Mr. Savage did the gay cause, which is my cause, no good with his outburst.

SC.Charlie on April 30, 2012 at 7:50 PM

@Voter from WA State Of course I’ve been hurt, but that has little to do with my position on the bible, the bible has clear and consistent issues that have nothing to do with me being gay. All the gospels have a different account, the prophecies don’t line up, and the god of the old testament was no better then the medieval version of Allah that the islamic fundamentalists follow today. Plus that’s despite the fact that it was constructed by committee. Two questions, if all prophets have to be judged on the validity of the their prophecies, why is it over looked that Jesus said in Mark 13:2 that not one stone shall be left on another. However the Wailing wall is still there? The other is that Matthew claims that when Jesus died the tombs opened and the dead walked? Wouldn’t someone, somewhere have noted that? That’s ignoring the fact that Jesus was only seen by believers after his resurrection casting severe doubt on the event itself. After all if you came back from the dead wouldn’t you at least mention that to the Roman’s who said they killed you? It doesn’t pass it’s own tests and despite that it’s still taken as sacred. That’s a pretty big jump for people who say they study the bible and have really asked themselves deep questions.

Zekecorlain on April 30, 2012 at 8:12 PM

This was written by Dan Savage (where he defends pedophiles):
‘Let’s Say I’m A Pedophile’

TigerPaw on April 30, 2012 at 9:27 PM

And the world was his harlot and laid in the sand
While the band played _-_-_

rogerb on April 30, 2012 at 9:34 PM

I just watched the video. I don’t get what the problem is.
There is an element of hypocrisy to taking one aspect of Leviticus (gays are bad) and not another (shellfish is bad). It is appropriate for someone to make that argument.
And his tone wasn’t that bad. From the description here, I thought he was going to angrily yell that people are “pansy-asses” but that wasn’t what happened either.

Mister Mets on April 29, 2012 at 8:31 PM

Savage did use the term “pansy asses” in reference to the kids who walked out.

Would it had been acceptable to you if a Christian speaker, in the same scenario, had yelled at homosexual kids walking out that they were behaving “f@ggish” (or insert some other derogatory term for homosexual kids) for leaving?

If not, why do you excuse Savage doing this to Christian kids?

Regardless of your religious or political views, I would hope you could admit that Savage’s behavior was rude and unacceptable.

It was explained ten times over by 100 different Christians in this thread why Savage’s speech was offensive and hypocritical, and it was explained why his understanding of biblical teachings are incorrect.

Here are some links I gave on previous pages of the thread that may help clear things up for you, about points that you raised in your post:

Homosexual Myths
see the part on that page about half way down that says,

[Addressing the misconception that] “The Levitical laws against homosexual behavior are not valid today”

Responses to common objections against Christianity and the Bible

TigerPaw on April 30, 2012 at 9:37 PM

If my children ended up gay, I would not stop loving them… I would be hurt beyond words, but I wouldn’t turn them away,..
mark81150 on April 29, 2012 at 9:53 PM

Mark, I agree with you there, but that is not enough for homosexual militants or the hetero sexual liberals who support homosexuality.

There is a straight woman on another web site who confronted me on my views about homosexuality.

She asked, if I had kids and one told me he was homosexual, how would I deal with it?

This woman (who is left wing) was expecting me to answer something like, “I would hate him, disown him, but not before beating his brains in.”

Instead, I replied as you did; I told her that I would love my kid still, but would let him know I cannot support his sexuality.

The left wing woman then moved the goal posts to say that my approach would lead the kid to kill himself, so it was still evil and horrible (which is not even true, see this page, the part at the bottom that says “Preaching against…”).

I found it sad and amusing that even though I made it clear I would treat any hypothetical homosexual kid of mine humanely and not turn him away, that woman could not accept that as an answer.

It appears to me that many people who are fully on board for homosexuality are dead set against seeing those who disagree with homosexuality as being compassionate, fair, and sane.

It’s important to them to hold on to their stereotypes of Christians as being hate-filled bigots who secretly want to send homosexuals off to gas chambers.

TigerPaw on April 30, 2012 at 9:46 PM

claiming to be constrained by the document that you already cherry picked is a fairly silly.
 
Zekecorlain on April 29, 2012 at 8:04 PM

 
And now, on with the show:
 

Two questions, if all prophets have to be judged on the validity of the their prophecies, why is it over looked that Jesus said in Mark 13:2 that not one stone shall be left on another. However the Wailing wall is still there?

 
What time frame are you putting on the Christ, and have you let him know what schedule works best for you?
 

That’s ignoring the fact that Jesus was only seen by believers after his resurrection casting severe doubt on the event itself. After all if you came back from the dead wouldn’t you at least mention that to the Roman’s who said they killed you? It doesn’t pass it’s own tests and despite that it’s still taken as sacred.
 
Zekecorlain on April 30, 2012 at 8:12 PM

 
Something significant is in the bolded part. You? Me? Maybe. Sure. But I can’t remember Him ever being vengeful towards humans (“they know not what” even) or having any particular need to track someone down simply to show off for them.
 
You’re trying to make Him into you. You’re supposed to be trying for the other direction.
 
Granted that, when I studied it, I found that the idea of a cruising for external admiration and self-satisfaction over conquering black Hell is not condemned in the bible at all, rather…

rogerb on April 30, 2012 at 10:05 PM

Zekecorlain on April 30, 2012 at 8:12 PM

.
Jesus was referring to the Temple (and associated structures) in Mark 13:2, where the Dome Of The Rock stands today.
The fact that the Wailing Wall still stands doesn’t disqualify the validity of the prophecy.
.
Why do you find Matt 27:52-53 hard to believe? Is it because there’s no third-party “secular” documentation to back it up?
Why should Jesus show himself to unbelievers, after he arose from the dead? Even if he tried to explain to them who he was, they still wouldn’t believe it because they never got to know him before hand.
.
The Roman Centurions guarding the tomb were the first ones to “witness” the resurrection, but they never saw him. They felt the earth quake, they sort-of saw the angel that rolled the boulder away sitting on said boulder, and were so overcome by the sight that they lay “as dead”.
When they had recovered (the next morning?), they ran to the chief priests (and NOT their Roman military superiors) and told what had happened. The chief priests called a quick meeting with the elders (I have no idea who the elders were) and agreement was reached in this meeting to “pay-off” the centurion guards if they would agree to say that the disciples had come in the night, and stolen Jesus’ body. Part of the pay-off was a promise from the chief priests to protect the centurion guards from punishment (punishment would have been death) for failing to protect Jesus’ body from theft. (Matt 28: 2-15)
.
I’m sure there is a multitude of other inconsistencies and contradictions within the Bible you’d like to call out.

But I may or may not get back to you on this thread, however.

listens2glenn on April 30, 2012 at 10:13 PM

It appears to me that many people who are fully on board for homosexuality are dead set against seeing those who disagree with homosexuality as being compassionate, fair, and sane.

It’s important to them to hold on to their stereotypes of Christians as being hate-filled bigots who secretly want to send homosexuals off to gas chambers. – TigerPaw on April 30, 2012 at 9:46 PM

You sound sane to me. But the history of Western Civilization and the Christian era and the issue of homosexuality is very clear. Homosexuals have been persecuted to the point of being executed, imprisoned, sent to mental hospitals, disowned by their families, etc.

I am gay, Christian (Episcopal) and a conservative. I am sixty years old. When I first realized that I was gay as a teenager. I kept it to myself and prayed to be “normal”. I did not tell a soul during my High School years. Oh, there were rumors. I became depressed and a recluse ………… and, at times suicidal. I went off to college in the fall of 1969. I came home and told my parents that I was gay. At that time was near to committing suicide. I was taken to a psychiatrist that day and told him and my parents my story of pain and confusion and thoughts of suicide. And, of course asking to myself why did God make me this way? That was 1969. And, I made a solemn promise to my psychiatrist and parents not to commit suicide.

At that time being homosexual was still in the manual of mental disorders. To act on a homosexual act and to be caught could get you arrested. To tell the few friends that I still did have, would just further isolate me. I chose to go back in the closet and remain celibate. The view at the time in many books and articles written was that it would just pass. And, I did not want to disappoint the parents that I loved.

The years went by and I remained reclusive, silent, celibate, depressed, anxious and at times suicidal. I fell totally silent about my pain, holding it inside. In the 1990s I had a mental breakdown and went to see a psychiatrist for the second time. He put me on Paxil which helped tremendously with the social anxiety and depression. Then in 2007 I lost it my sanity. I developed every indication of major depression. I was 55.

At the time my brother and I owned a small store. I was a wreak. We all agreed that I needed to take some time off and just stay home. Well, I took out a revolver and played Russian Roulette for around five days. Yes, I did cheat, but in my condition I don’t know how I did not fail to put the trigger on a live round. My brother and sister had me, along with my consent, to be committed. After my being in the hospital for around three weeks, I then told a select group of people close to me that I was homosexual. My life has vastly improved. I don’t go around waving the gay liberation flag. And, I have not told everyone that I might should tell. But I don’t really now give a darn if anyone knows. And, finally if they can’t handle it, then it is their problem and not mine. If you want to quote Bible quotes to me all day, go ahead. I did not choose my sexual orientation. I would have loved to have had a wife and family. But that is not what God gave me.

What it comes down to me at the present is that I don’t want gay and lesbian teenagers to have to go through all what I went through. I want them to be able to experience life and love. But, I do know that they are still going to have to endure people who want to quote from the Bible that what they are doing is against the will of God, which I find to be sad.

SC.Charlie on May 1, 2012 at 8:35 AM

@listens2glenn You have this on fact? because it was an absolute statement, your explanation is really just equivocating because the facts on the ground don’t match the words.

as for people rising form the dead, the whole point of his life, death and supposed resurrection was to save mankind. Keeping the light under the bushel basket would just be a di*k move and lead to less people being saved. This doesn’t even begin to touch upon the discussion that the supposed creator destroyed his first batch of people, then tried again and promised to kill the next batch. The whole story is starting to sound less like benevolent dictator to psychopathic alien who routinely abuses his position and power. I know that sounds harsh but if an alien came to earth with the same terms as the christian god, the response would be world wide rebellion, not blind obedience

Zekecorlain on May 1, 2012 at 9:16 AM

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