Open thread: Romney’s victory speech and Gingrich’s last stand; Update: Romney wins Delaware

posted at 7:21 pm on April 24, 2012 by Allahpundit

Ed’s right, of course, that tonight is an anticlimax but there are still two good reasons to turn on cable news at 8 p.m. One is the Romney coronation. Excerpts from his prepared remarks:

Four years ago Barack Obama dazzled us in front of Greek columns with sweeping promises of hope and change. But after we came down to earth, after the celebration and parades, what do we have to show for three and a half years of President Obama?

Is it easier to make ends meet? Is it easier to sell your home or buy a new one? Have you saved what you needed for retirement? Are you making more in your job? Do you have a better chance to get a better job? Do you pay less at the pump?

If the answer were “yes” to those questions, then President Obama would be running for re-election based on his achievements…and rightly so. But because he has failed, he will run a campaign of diversions, distractions, and distortions. That kind of campaign may have worked at another place and in a different time. But not here and not now. It’s still about the economy …and we’re not stupid.

Two is the fittingly surreal saga of whether Newt will signal an end to his campaign. Last night he told NBC, “I think we need to take a deep look at what we are doing,” and hinted that he might be done if he loses badly in Delaware, where he’s been campaigning lately. A source elaborated on that for NRO this morning, insisting that he’d have to finish at least a close second to Romney there to keep going. Then came the tamp-down from “campaign insiders,” who told Byron York that Newt won’t quit tonight no matter what happens.

Team Gingrich sees three possible scenarios. The first scenario is that Gingrich wins Delaware. “That’s a signal to conservatives and Tea Partiers and grassroots activists that there still is a conservative they can send to Tampa,” says the Gingrich aide. “And it sends the message to Romney that it’s not time to turn to the general election.” No one knows whether the winning scenario is at all plausible; there has been no polling of Delaware, with its tiny Republican population and 17 delegates.

Next comes the middle-road scenario in which Gingrich narrowly loses Delaware. “That’s where we do well enough that it demonstrates there’s a chink in Romney’s armor,” the aide says. When asked what “well enough” means, the aide answered, “Within a couple of points — a close loss.”

The worst-case scenario is that Gingrich loses big in Delaware.

If they lose, says the source, they’ll “reassess” things but Gingrich will continue on to North Carolina to try to pick up another southern state. I really hope he pulls it off tonight in Delaware, just because I’m itching to watch a victory speech from bizarroland in which Newt boldly proclaims “game on” in the primary while literally everyone else in the GOP is pivoting to Obama. It’ll be an instant classic. A little taste from his chat with reporters this afternoon: “I think it’s a very substantial mistake for Governor Romney to be pretending these primaries aren’t occurring, and for him to be having ‘a general-election speech’ tonight in New Hampshire. He’s the front-runner, but he’s not the nominee, and I think it’s a little insulting to the people of these states.” C’mon, Dover tea partiers: If you made it to the polls for Christine O’Donnell, you can make it there to guarantee one last Gingrichian stemwinder. And even if not, I think Newt will probably find enough encouragement in PPP’s poll showing him within 10 of Romney in Texas to plow ahead anyway. My hunch is that he wants one more big win, one more right hook to Romney’s jaw, before succumbing.

Here’s his new video message aimed squarely at Santorum voters in North Carolina. Speaking of which, how much longer until Team Sweater Vest climbs aboard Romney’s “Anybody But Obama” Express? According to CNN, a meeting’s likely to happen early next month to discuss the role “social conservatives, tea party activists and blue collar Republicans will play in the campaign and in the Romney administration.”

Update: NBC just called Delaware for Romney. With 62 percent reporting, Mitt leads Gingrich there 56/30. Your move, Newt.


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Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 1:35 AM

I love the Ozarks. Terribly underrated, great rivers for floating.

alwaysfiredup on April 25, 2012 at 1:38 AM

jimver on April 25, 2012 at 1:30 AM

Wait a minute, you’re an actual Frenchie, still? I’m Norman by blood, old blood. Technically my family own most of France, if you believe in Monarchical ancestral rights to property. We scared the French into giving us Northern France by laying siege to Paris, and then took over England and the rest of France.

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 1:40 AM

jimver on April 25, 2012 at 1:35 AM

It’s a one-of-a-kind piece of political paraphernalia, worth a lot more signed than not. ;)

alwaysfiredup on April 25, 2012 at 1:40 AM

I love the Ozarks. Terribly underrated, great rivers for floating.

alwaysfiredup on April 25, 2012 at 1:38 AM

Yeah, I thought I’d like the Appalachians till I went there. Those mountains are way too tall. Makes me dizzy just thinking about it. Taum Sauk is enough, as far as I’m concerned.

Went up Lookout Mountain, TN, once, and had to crawl down. Felt like I was sliding off the face of the Earth.

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 1:43 AM

Why are you looking in SWPA anyway? That’s low-population red state territory. Wouldn’t the point be more persuasive if near Pittsburg or Phillie?

Green County: Obama 2100 votes m/l
Eugene DePasquale (only Dem for Treasurer): 2600 votes m/l

So 500 people in a conservative part of the state didn’t vote Obama. The earth’s not moving.

alwaysfiredup on April 25, 2012 at 1:35 AM

1 – Not 500 people. 500 Democrat loyalists who bothered to face the bad weather to vote in a primary. And I’m sure many didn’t vote for Mr. Pasquale because they simply don’t know him. I doubt the same can be said to excuse Obama’s poor showing.

2 – No, the point isn’t more persuasive if near Pittsburgh or Phillie because the point is about these working-class, blue-collar, democrats who can decide the fate of the elections in the Midwest – namely be ticket-splitting.

Democrat primary voters in the Philly and Pitt suburbs are latte liberals who will always vote for Obama. Romney will need to there too – and I’m pretty sure he will, because it’s his turf and the kind of territory he’s always done well in the primary and in his runs in MA – but not by winning Democratic primary voters.

Capisce? Probably not.

joana on April 25, 2012 at 1:43 AM

1 – Not 500 people. 500 Democrat loyalists who bothered to face the bad weather to vote in a primary. And I’m sure many didn’t vote for Mr. Pasquale because they simply don’t know him. I doubt the same can be said to excuse Obama’s poor showing.

2 – No, the point isn’t more persuasive if near Pittsburgh or Phillie because the point is about these working-class, blue-collar, democrats who can decide the fate of the elections in the Midwest – namely be ticket-splitting.

Democrat primary voters in the Philly and Pitt suburbs are latte liberals who will always vote for Obama. Romney will need to there too – and I’m pretty sure he will, because it’s his turf and the kind of territory he’s always done well in the primary and in his runs in MA – but not by winning Democratic primary voters.

Capisce? Probably not.

joana on April 25, 2012 at 1:43 AM

You are trying to apply these results to…other Midwestern states? Good luck with that.

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 1:46 AM

Did you at least stop in Branson? Its a bit expensive, but pretty. I’m on the other side of the State, all hillfolk, flatlanders, and methlabs. Nice place to live, all things considering.

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 1:35 AM

the wedding of my spouse’s commander’s daughter that she dragged me to, despite my loud protestations….yep, we stopped in Branson, we were going to some silly place for kids, Silver something city with roller coasters and stuff, as our friends had their kids with them and we had to tag along…nothing special about Branson, I mean I suppose people go there for the country music and stuff…personally, I don’t listen to that kind of music..but, yeah, Springfield was horrible indeed…mind you, wherever we turned we were reminded that Brad Pitt was from there, or something, as if that info per se could have made the experience of being in that town more pleasant or something…

jimver on April 25, 2012 at 1:46 AM

the wedding of my spouse’s commander’s daughter that she dragged me to, despite my loud protestations….yep, we stopped in Branson, we were going to some silly place for kids, Silver something city with roller coasters and stuff, as our friends had their kids with them and we had to tag along…nothing special about Branson, I mean I suppose people go there for the country music and stuff…personally, I don’t listen to that kind of music..but, yeah, Springfield was horrible indeed…mind you, wherever we turned we were reminded that Brad Pitt was from there, or something, as if that info per se could have made the experience of being in that town more pleasant or something…

jimver on April 25, 2012 at 1:46 AM

So I take it that you didn’t go to the real attraction of Springfield Missouri? The Bass Pro Shop?

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 1:49 AM

because the point is about these working-class, blue-collar, democrats who can decide the fate of the elections in the Midwest

joana on April 25, 2012 at 1:43 AM

Oh, you think SWPA is Midwest. LOL. How very east-coast of you.

alwaysfiredup on April 25, 2012 at 1:50 AM

You are trying to apply these results to…other Midwestern states? Good luck with that.

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 1:46 AM

Yeps. Not me, it’s been done by campaigns and political scientists for decades. Do you think their cousins who live at the mining town a few miles West and belong to the same union have different political behaviors just because they’re in Ohio?

joana on April 25, 2012 at 1:52 AM

Oh, you think SWPA is Midwest. LOL. How very east-coast of you.

alwaysfiredup on April 25, 2012 at 1:50 AM

Nope. That type of voters will decide the elections in the Midwest once wealthy suburbanites side with Romney though.

As I suspected, you were too dumb to understand the argument. Sigh. Oh well, I tried.

joana on April 25, 2012 at 1:54 AM

Do you think their cousins who live at the mining town a few miles West and belong to the same union have different political behaviors just because they’re in Ohio?

joana on April 25, 2012 at 1:52 AM

I had lots of arguments in college with people who thought Ohio was midwest. silly, silly easterners. It looks a little like Kansas, but far too populated. I wouldn’t worry about the miner vote myself. Obama won without the conservadems last time, he can do it again.

alwaysfiredup on April 25, 2012 at 1:54 AM

That type of voters will decide the elections in the Midwest once wealthy suburbanites side with Romney though.

As I suspected, you were too dumb to understand the argument.

joana on April 25, 2012 at 1:54 AM

At least I’m not the moron who thinks there are miners in the midwest.

alwaysfiredup on April 25, 2012 at 1:55 AM

Oh, you think SWPA is Midwest. LOL. How very east-coast of you.

alwaysfiredup on April 25, 2012 at 1:50 AM

According to the U.S. Census Bureau, Ohio is in the Midwest, and Missouri is as far South as the Midwest goes. I’ve always considered KY and TN to be at least partly Midwest, but not according to the Census Bureau, apparently. Nor is Arkansas, which really seems wrong, at least the Ozark plateau should be considered Midwest. This is like people who consider Florida to be “The Deep South”. Strange folks.

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 1:55 AM

Joana: queen of the midwestern miners and rich suburbanites. Because those are the only people who vote in the Midwest!

alwaysfiredup on April 25, 2012 at 1:56 AM

Wait a minute, you’re an actual Frenchie, still? I’m Norman by blood, old blood. Technically my family own most of France, if you believe in Monarchical ancestral rights to property. We scared the French into giving us Northern France by laying siege to Paris, and then took over England and the rest of France.

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 1:40 AM

yes, still a Frenchie, very much so, though I spent most of my adult life in England and a few years here, in the US…my dad’s family is from the old Aquitaine province (Dordogne, Lot, that area) and kingdom even, at times, the one with the longest common history with England…Aquitaine was under the English kings u until the 15th century…

jimver on April 25, 2012 at 1:57 AM

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 1:55 AM

Lines drawn by people who don’t live here. Ah, well. Tell me they put the plains in the midwest, yes?

alwaysfiredup on April 25, 2012 at 1:58 AM

Yeps. Not me, it’s been done by campaigns and political scientists for decades. Do you think their cousins who live at the mining town a few miles West and belong to the same union have different political behaviors just because they’re in Ohio?

joana on April 25, 2012 at 1:52 AM

Actually my point was more that you were trying to take a little piece of data from a small region of PA, and apply it elsewhere, which is really stretching the data a bit thin. Honestly, I hate Obama, but this primary election results doesn’t mean anything as far as he is concerned. Especially not outside of PA.

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 1:58 AM

I had lots of arguments in college with people who thought Ohio was midwest. silly, silly easterners. It looks a little like Kansas, but far too populated. I wouldn’t worry about the miner vote myself. Obama won without the conservadems last time, he can do it again.

alwaysfiredup on April 25, 2012 at 1:54 AM

Nobody cares what you think is Midwest or not.

You should be worried: not only Obama still got plenty of conservadems vote, he could afford to lose them because he ran the table on those suburbs. If he loses the voters typical of, say, SEPA suburbs, he can’t win without social conservative working-class democrats.

Ooops. Axelrod didn’t explain you that?

joana on April 25, 2012 at 1:59 AM

So I take it that you didn’t go to the real attraction of Springfield Missouri? The Bass Pro Shop?

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 1:49 AM

arrrgh, yeah, we’ve been there too…not a hunter, not a fisherman, city person through and through…so, yeah, hard to describe my level of enthusiasm being in the bass pro, though I did like a cool boat there…but that was pretty much it…

jimver on April 25, 2012 at 2:00 AM

Obama still got plenty of conservadems vote, he could afford to lose them because he ran the table on those suburbs.

joana on April 25, 2012 at 1:59 AM

Not at all representative of 2008 in my state. Gosh you’re provincial.

alwaysfiredup on April 25, 2012 at 2:01 AM

Lines drawn by people who don’t live here. Ah, well. Tell me they put the plains in the midwest, yes?

alwaysfiredup on April 25, 2012 at 1:58 AM

Pretty much, but they consider MN, WI, and MI to be Midwest. Which I can kind of see, I guess, but they really need their own designation. I prefer Rust belt. Or Great Lakes States. Or Greater Chicago/Detroit area of Rust and Cheese.

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 2:01 AM

I had lots of arguments in college with people who thought Ohio was midwest. silly, silly easterners. It looks a little like Kansas, but far too populated. I wouldn’t worry about the miner vote myself. Obama won without the conservadems last time, he can do it again.

alwaysfiredup on April 25, 2012 at 1:54 AM

Every native Ohioan I’ve ever heard speak on the matter, and that’s been quite a few, considered their state to be not just Midwestern but quintessential Midwestern and bristled at the idea their state was somehow not. Who died and made you the final arbiter of what is and is not which part of the country?

alchemist19 on April 25, 2012 at 2:01 AM

Every native Ohioan I’ve ever heard speak on the matter, and that’s been quite a few, considered their state to be not just Midwestern but quintessential Midwestern and bristled at the idea their state was somehow not.

alchemist19 on April 25, 2012 at 2:01 AM

Hence the arguments, which were without fail with native Ohioans. People seem to think the “midwest” runs from mid-PA almost to the Rockies. How does that make sense?

alwaysfiredup on April 25, 2012 at 2:03 AM

arrrgh, yeah, we’ve been there too…not a hunter, not a fisherman, city person through and through…so, yeah, hard to describe my level of enthusiasm being in the bass pro, though I did like a cool boat there…but that was pretty much it…

jimver on April 25, 2012 at 2:00 AM

It occurs to me, talking to you just how far I really am from “Urban”. There used to be a 150 year old turtle there, I don’t suppose he is still alive. I haven’t been there in at least a decade. Which I guess wouldn’t be anything to that turtle, really.

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 2:04 AM

I prefer Rust belt. Or Great Lakes States.

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 2:01 AM

Precisely.

alwaysfiredup on April 25, 2012 at 2:04 AM

Who died and made you the final arbiter of what is and is not which part of the country?

alchemist19 on April 25, 2012 at 2:01 AM

It’s a troll that engages people in inane idiocy and drags them off into distracting topics in order to increase page views and comment count, apparently.

Here you are talking about whether or not Ohio is midwestern or not. See how effective the troll has been? Better just to completely and utterly ignore that one.

crosspatch on April 25, 2012 at 2:05 AM

Hence the arguments, which were without fail with native Ohioans. People seem to think the “midwest” runs from mid-PA almost to the Rockies. How does that make sense?

alwaysfiredup on April 25, 2012 at 2:03 AM

I’ve met Texans who swear they are in the Midwest. So where does the West and the South/Southwest begin, then?

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 2:05 AM

Actually my point was more that you were trying to take a little piece of data from a small region of PA, and apply it elsewhere, which is really stretching the data a bit thin. Honestly, I hate Obama, but this primary election results doesn’t mean anything as far as he is concerned. Especially not outside of PA.

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 1:58 AM

Uh? I got your point. Once again, you have no idea what you’re talking about. Google electoral geography or electoral demographics or something like that.

Feel free to extrapolate that a limo liberal in Cambridge, MA won’t vote much differently than a limo liberal in San Francisco, MA. Or that the older working-class, union card carrying, non-college educated, registered democrat in the rust belt will tend to vote the same way. Ditto for evangelical, wealthy, exurban voter in the South. And so on.

Didn’t you follow the Republican primary? It was all about demographics. As the demography of the state would change, so would the Romney vs Santorum numbers. It was almost creepy.

joana on April 25, 2012 at 2:05 AM

It’s a troll that engages people in inane idiocy and drags them off into distracting topics in order to increase page views and comment count, apparently.

Here you are talking about whether or not Ohio is midwestern or not. See how effective the troll has been? Better just to completely and utterly ignore that one.

crosspatch on April 25, 2012 at 2:05 AM

You were one of those kids that hated Geography in school, weren’t you? “Why do we have to learn this crap, it’s not like we’ll be blogging on the internet one day, and suddenly we’ll get in a heated argument about the dividing lines that make up the cultural-geographic boundaries of the US, or anything.”

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 2:07 AM

It was all about demographics geography.

joana on April 25, 2012 at 2:05 AM

Geography, not ideology. You’re just wrong. Again.

alwaysfiredup on April 25, 2012 at 2:08 AM

Obama still got plenty of conservadems vote, he could afford to lose them because he ran the table on those suburbs.

joana on April 25, 2012 at 1:59 AM

Not at all representative of 2008 in my state. Gosh you’re provincial.

alwaysfiredup on April 25, 2012 at 2:01 AM

That could be a good self-deprecating irony but you aren’t smart enough to pull it off.

Anyway, you were made aware of the bad news for your team: Romney is very strong with those upper middle-class, socially moderate but more fiscally conservative, suburbanites that hated the GOP in 06 and 08 and if Obama doesn’t want to the white vote to kill him in states where there aren’t enough minorities he needs to do better with working-class whites.

Tonight proved they still hate him because this kind of numbers aren’t normal.

joana on April 25, 2012 at 2:08 AM

Hence the arguments, which were without fail with native Ohioans. People seem to think the “midwest” runs from mid-PA almost to the Rockies. How does that make sense?

alwaysfiredup on April 25, 2012 at 2:03 AM

Once you pull out the South, West and Northeast the people from everything that’s left seem to want to consider themselves the Midwest but they don’t want that term applied to whatever is on the opposite side of the Mississippi (I’m speaking as a Westerner with no dog in that fight). The terms I’ve heard bandied about are Great Plains/Flatlanders or Great Lakes/Rust Belt. I tell them they’re both the Midwest which inevitably gets them more ticked at me than they ever were with each other.

alchemist19 on April 25, 2012 at 2:09 AM

Uh? I got your point. Once again, you have no idea what you’re talking about. Google electoral geography or electoral demographics or something like that.

Feel free to extrapolate that a limo liberal in Cambridge, MA won’t vote much differently than a limo liberal in San Francisco, MA. Or that the older working-class, union card carrying, non-college educated, registered democrat in the rust belt will tend to vote the same way. Ditto for evangelical, wealthy, exurban voter in the South. And so on.

Didn’t you follow the Republican primary? It was all about demographics. As the demography of the state would change, so would the Romney vs Santorum numbers. It was almost creepy.

joana on April 25, 2012 at 2:05 AM

You are still trying to draw conclusions from a very small limited bit of generally misleading data and trying to apply it broadly across much of the central US. I just don’t think you can do that and still make a useful argument about the state of the general election right now.

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 2:10 AM

joana on April 25, 2012 at 2:08 AM

totally mental. The suburbs in my state a) mostly aren’t rich, and b) mostly went for McCain. It was the highly-populated urban areas in KC and STL that went for Obama, and almost flipped the state blue. Just stop, you’re embarrassing yourself.

alwaysfiredup on April 25, 2012 at 2:10 AM

There used to be a 150 year old turtle there, I don’t suppose he is still alive. I haven’t been there in at least a decade. Which I guess wouldn’t be anything to that turtle, really.

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 2:04 AM

if there was, nobody mentioned it to us…there were a bunch of aquatic creatures in those ‘indoors ponds’, yeah, turtles too, come think about it, but no idea if your Metusalah guy was there or not :-)…

jimver on April 25, 2012 at 2:11 AM

alchemist19 on April 25, 2012 at 2:09 AM

Lol I’ve never even heard “flatlanders” before. “Rust Belt” seems a tad less pejorative, but then, I’m west of the Mississippi.

alwaysfiredup on April 25, 2012 at 2:12 AM

You are still trying to draw conclusions from a very small limited bit of generally misleading data and trying to apply it broadly across much of the central US. I just don’t think you can do that and still make a useful argument about the state of the general election right now.

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 2:10 AM

How do you know that?

If you ever work on campaigns or study electoral geography and demographics, you’ll find out you can certainly do that. It’s a fairly safe speculation.

You must be one of those know-nothings who doesn’t believe in polls because they just asked 1,000 people and there are hundreds of millions voting.

joana on April 25, 2012 at 2:14 AM

Once you pull out the South, West and Northeast the people from everything that’s left seem to want to consider themselves the Midwest but they don’t want that term applied to whatever is on the opposite side of the Mississippi (I’m speaking as a Westerner with no dog in that fight). The terms I’ve heard bandied about are Great Plains/Flatlanders or Great Lakes/Rust Belt. I tell them they’re both the Midwest which inevitably gets them more ticked at me than they ever were with each other.

alchemist19 on April 25, 2012 at 2:09 AM

And add in political biases. Liberals from southern states would rather call themselves Midwesterners, than Southerners. Because Southerner is a derogatory term for them. Like some people in New England love being New Englanders, but when you point out that Maryland isn’t really New England, they get mad at you for breaking up their fantasy. The Census Bureau considers Maryland in the South.

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 2:15 AM

joana on April 25, 2012 at 2:08 AM

Oh yes: and counties with college towns. Urbanites and college kids. Miners? Not so much.

alwaysfiredup on April 25, 2012 at 2:16 AM

How do you know that?

If you ever work on campaigns or study electoral geography and demographics, you’ll find out you can certainly do that. It’s a fairly safe speculation.

You must be one of those know-nothings who doesn’t believe in polls because they just asked 1,000 people and there are hundreds of millions voting.

joana on April 25, 2012 at 2:14 AM

You aren’t taking a national poll of a 1000 people chosen randomly from throughout the country, you are taking a very small non-random sample from a small part of a single state and trying to apply that data-set over an entire Region of the country. That is like saying, Romney is losing WI, so he will probably lose all of the other Midwestern states too. Statistics doesn’t work like that.

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 2:18 AM

And add in political biases. Liberals from southern states would rather call themselves Midwesterners, than Southerners. Because Southerner is a derogatory term for them. Like some people in New England love being New Englanders, but when you point out that Maryland isn’t really New England, they get mad at you for breaking up their fantasy. The Census Bureau considers Maryland in the South.

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 2:15 AM

My experience with New Englanders (ME, VT, NH, RI, CT and MA) is they get upset if you try to lump New York into them. I suppose on some level I can relate to not wanting to get New York lumped in with you but that’s jsut me.

alchemist19 on April 25, 2012 at 2:19 AM

if there was, nobody mentioned it to us…there were a bunch of aquatic creatures in those ‘indoors ponds’, yeah, turtles too, come think about it, but no idea if your Metusalah guy was there or not :-)…

jimver on April 25, 2012 at 2:11 AM

A pity, they probably put him back in the zoo at St Louis or somewhere else. You’d definitely remember him if he was still there. Huge, like a tractor tire in the water. Though you probably don’t know what a tractor tire is, being cityfolk and all. :)

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 2:20 AM

you are taking a very small non-random sample from a small part of a single state and trying to apply that data-set over an entire Region of the country.

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 2:18 AM

Not to mention, as we’ve established, said region is absolutely enormous. Mid-PA to the Rockies. Not a homogeneous area at all..

alwaysfiredup on April 25, 2012 at 2:20 AM

My experience with New Englanders (ME, VT, NH, RI, CT and MA) is they get upset if you try to lump New York into them. I suppose on some level I can relate to not wanting to get New York lumped in with you but that’s just me.

alchemist19 on April 25, 2012 at 2:19 AM

Yeah, I’d rather not call Illinois Midwestern too. At least South of Chicago it’s pretty decent.

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 2:22 AM

For example, in Philadelphia, Obama had more votes than the guys on the other races – in spite of running unopposed as well. In Delaware County, he was undervoted but to a very small extent. In Montour it was already a bit large. In the Western counties, the phenomenon reaches way larger proportions.

The more “Reagan Democrat” the county is, the higher the Obama undervote is.

This is a disturbing pattern for his campaign. The press will never capture this kind of things because they’re a bunch of dimwits but it’s what they’re discussing tonight at the OFA headquarters.

joana on April 25, 2012 at 2:22 AM

This is a disturbing pattern for his campaign. The press will never capture this kind of things because they’re a bunch of dimwits but it’s what they’re discussing tonight at the OFA headquarters.

joana on April 25, 2012 at 2:22 AM

There getting drunk tonight at the OFA HQ. Same as every other night, I suspect.

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 2:23 AM

You aren’t taking a national poll of a 1000 people chosen randomly from throughout the country, you are taking a very small non-random sample from a small part of a single state and trying to apply that data-set over an entire Region of the country. That is like saying, Romney is losing WI, so he will probably lose all of the other Midwestern states too. Statistics doesn’t work like that.

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 2:18 AM

Nope, it’s not like saying that at all.

It’s like saying “Reagan Democrats in Western PA are mad at Obama so Reagan Democrats in Ohio or Michigan are mad at him as well”.

Not surprised you can’t tell the difference.

joana on April 25, 2012 at 2:24 AM

For example, in Philadelphia, Obama had more votes than the guys on the other races … The more “Reagan Democrat” the county is, the higher the Obama undervote is.

joana on April 25, 2012 at 2:22 AM

So doesn’t it all sort of even out?

alwaysfiredup on April 25, 2012 at 2:25 AM

Studying the undervote of Obama in PA counties is fascinating. He was actually overvoted in Philadelphia. In, say, Delaware, there was a small undervote. In Montour, it was larger. In the western counties, it reaches scary proportions.

The press won’t capture this kind of stuff because they’re a bunch of dimwits, but it’s what they’re discussing tonight at the OFA headquarters.

joana on April 25, 2012 at 2:25 AM

joana on April 25, 2012 at 2:24 AM

Oh stop. Our Reagan Democrats voted McCain last time around. They probably will again. Keep your opinions to things you know.

alwaysfiredup on April 25, 2012 at 2:27 AM

So doesn’t it all sort of even out?

alwaysfiredup on April 25, 2012 at 2:25 AM

Are you serious? Did you think before asking that? How exactly a single small positive (Philly) and then a lot of negative numbers (some smaller, like Burks, some large like Fayette), even out? I mean, really?
I’m always amazed on how some people can be so incredibly… I dont’ even know.

I thought that comment of mine wasn’t published, btw.

joana on April 25, 2012 at 2:28 AM

joana on April 25, 2012 at 2:25 AM

…and now you’re repeating yourself. Maybe it’s time to stop drinking.

alwaysfiredup on April 25, 2012 at 2:28 AM

Not to mention, as we’ve established, said region is absolutely enormous. Mid-PA to the Rockies. Not a homogeneous area at all..

alwaysfiredup on April 25, 2012 at 2:20 AM

And we haven’t even talked about the megalopolises yet, which what WI, MI, and Chicago really are. That introduces a whole other degree of complexity to this issue. Some areas are technically rural in terms of development, but fall directly between two major local cities, which causes a very different cultural to form. It’s a kind of rural-suburban thing, where properties are being rapidly bought up and developed into new towns and minor-cities. Draw a line across Missouri from KC to STL, basically. Obviously they tend to follow interstates.

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 2:28 AM

How exactly a single small positive (Philly) and then a lot of negative numbers (some smaller, like Burks, some large like Fayette), even out? I mean, really?

joana on April 25, 2012 at 2:28 AM

The two large cities in my state totally offset the entire rest of the state in population. that’s why. Stop being a b!tch.

alwaysfiredup on April 25, 2012 at 2:29 AM

Are you serious? Did you think before asking that? How exactly a single small positive (Philly) and then a lot of negative numbers (some smaller, like Burks, some large like Fayette), even out? I mean, really?
I’m always amazed on how some people can be so incredibly… I dont’ even know.

I thought that comment of mine wasn’t published, btw.

joana on April 25, 2012 at 2:28 AM

That single small positive is like 2 million people or whatever. It takes a lot of little negatives to make up for that one positive.

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 2:29 AM

Nope, it’s not like saying that at all.

It’s like saying “Reagan Democrats in Western PA are mad at Obama so Reagan Democrats in Ohio or Michigan are mad at him as well”.

Not surprised you can’t tell the difference.

joana on April 25, 2012 at 2:24 AM

How about the RDems in WPA are mad at Obama, but the MI RDems love him for keeping their car-manufactoring plant open? There are reasons that people in one area feel one way and people somewhere else feel different. Why is this even in question? It’s too obvious. My uncle hates Obama because of some weird fishing tax-regulation that Obama endorsed as senator in IL. People are….weird sometimes. Who knows why the data you have is the way it is, but you can’t reasonably expect to expand it to other regions and hope to get any useful information from that.

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 2:34 AM

Though you probably don’t know what a tractor tire is, being cityfolk and all. :)

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 2:20 AM

no, I don’t :-)…is it something big? :-)…I have family who owns a few vineyards and a winery in France…so, believe it or not, I know a little about country life, or at least what I remember from my summer vacations as a kid anyways, though it’s all reduced to vine growing kind of ‘country/rural’…and yes, I did see tractors with trailers that were used for transporting the grapes…actually I think I saw some here, in Napa Valley too :-)…home away from home…

jimver on April 25, 2012 at 2:35 AM

Oh stop. Our Reagan Democrats voted McCain last time around. They probably will again. Keep your opinions to things you know.

alwaysfiredup on April 25, 2012 at 2:27 AM

I hope they don’t vote McCain again, that would really screw our chances of beating Obama!/ :)

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 2:36 AM

That single small positive is like 2 million people or whatever. It takes a lot of little negatives to make up for that one positive.

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 2:29 AM

It’s amazing how you simply don’t get it. It’s not even that hard to understand.

Obama being overvoted in the Philly democratic primary is normal. The other people lack his name recognition. It doesn’t tell anything we didn’t know because Democratic primary voters in Philly will certainly vote for Obama in November.

I think you’re so confused you believe I’m talking about turnout patterns, as pundits and the press usually do. Trying to measure “enthusiasm” and all that crap. I’m not. It has nothing to do with that.

joana on April 25, 2012 at 2:36 AM

no, I don’t :-)…is it something big? :-)…I have family who owns a few vineyards and a winery in France…so, believe it or not, I know a little about country life, or at least what I remember from my summer vacations as a kid anyways, though it’s all reduced to vine growing kind of ‘country/rural’…and yes, I did see tractors with trailers that were used for transporting the grapes…actually I think I saw some here, in Napa Valley too :-)…home away from home…

jimver on April 25, 2012 at 2:35 AM

For what it is worth, Missouri is why France still has vineyards. Look up George Engelmann of St. Louis.

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 2:38 AM

joana on April 25, 2012 at 2:36 AM

I think you’re an obnoxious brat who isn’t even trying to understand what other people are saying, since you *know everything*. I also think you’re dying to tell us what a very important muckety-muck you are in your little circle and it is terribly unattractive.

But hey, what do I know. I’s jes stooopid flyover-countreefolk.

alwaysfiredup on April 25, 2012 at 2:39 AM

I think you’re an obnoxious brat who isn’t even trying to understand what other people are saying, since you *know everything*. I also think you’re dying to tell us what a very important muckety-muck you are in your little circle and it is terribly unattractive.

But hey, what do I know. I’s jes stooopid flyover-countreefolk.

alwaysfiredup on April 25, 2012 at 2:39 AM

On the Plus side, her ranting about nothing has gotten us to discuss Geography. Which is miles better than talking about boring old Romney. We haven’t talked about him in at least 4 pages. :)

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 2:42 AM

alwaysfiredup on April 25, 2012 at 2:39 AM

Why are you so mad?

Anyway, this night proves Obama and white working-class democrats aren’t best friends yet. Plus, two more Blue Dogs went down. Good news.

joana on April 25, 2012 at 2:42 AM

Capisce? Probably not.
As I suspected, you were too dumb to understand the argument.
Nobody cares what you think is Midwest or not.
Ooops. Axelrod didn’t explain you that?
Once again, you have no idea what you’re talking about.
you aren’t smart enough to pull it off.
You must be one of those know-nothings
Not surprised you can’t tell the difference.
Are you serious? Did you think before asking that?
I mean, really?
I’m always amazed on how some people can be so incredibly… I dont’ even know.
It’s amazing how you simply don’t get it. It’s not even that hard to understand.

And that’s just this page.

alwaysfiredup on April 25, 2012 at 2:47 AM

And that’s just this page.

alwaysfiredup on April 25, 2012 at 2:47 AM

I think my old college roommate wrote a vb.net script that posted angry text that sounds a lot like Joana.

Maybe she is just an ancient nearly sentient web-crawling piece of forgotten code, trying to stay sane by having mindless arguments on political blogs. It makes sense, seeing as she is one of the only “enthusiastic” Mitt supporters on this entire site.

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 2:50 AM

Well, before everyone else leaves or passes out, I just want to say that tomorrow we should have a prolonged discussion of the Myst PC game series and why Riven is still obviously the best game ever. :)

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 2:53 AM

Thanks Bill. It’s been fun. G’night.

alwaysfiredup on April 25, 2012 at 2:54 AM

Good nite all.

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 2:55 AM

For what it is worth, Missouri is why France still has vineyards. Look up George Engelmann of St. Louis.

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 2:38 AM

amazing, I didn’t know about Engelmann..I know that phylloxera was killing our vines back in the day, but didn’t know about this whole MO botanist connection..ok, I won’t disparage MO anymore :-)…
but Springfield, boy, that place is fugly :-(…

jimver on April 25, 2012 at 2:55 AM

Lots of tools arguing about the mid west in this thread, yet everybody knows that real men are grown in the North East.

Swerve22 on April 25, 2012 at 2:59 AM

amazing, I didn’t know about Engelmann..I know that phylloxera was killing our vines back in the day, but didn’t know about this whole MO botanist connection..ok, I won’t disparage MO anymore :-)…
but Springfield, boy, that place is fugly :-(…

jimver on April 25, 2012 at 2:55 AM

Good. When the world ends in a few years, I’ll inform my Hillbilly cousins that there is at least one Frenchman from California who isn’t a complete waste. :)

We might even teach you how to use a proper tractor. Hope you like outhouses though.

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 3:00 AM

Lots of tools arguing about the mid west in this thread, yet everybody knows that real men are grown in the North East.

Swerve22 on April 25, 2012 at 2:59 AM

‘Yawn’

What is the “North East”? Russia? Or Finland? Finland is fine, good marksmen; plus Molotov cocktails.

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 3:03 AM

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012n at 3:00 AM

not sure what an ‘outhouse’ is, I only suspect :-), and nope, me not likey…remember, we invented the bidet :)…

jimver on April 25, 2012 at 3:07 AM

http://badassoftheweek.com/hayha.html

Simo Hayha; Why no one laughs at the Finnish. Especially Russians.

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 3:07 AM

not sure what an ‘outhouse’ is, I only suspect :-), and nope, me not likey…remember, we invented the bidet :)…

jimver on April 25, 2012 at 3:07 AM

Like a brick Sh!thouse, but no bricks. Lots of Sh!t, though.

And black widows. Under the seat.

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 3:09 AM

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 3:09 AM

thought so :-)…so, yeah, I prefer the bidet :-)…

jimver on April 25, 2012 at 3:11 AM

I think you’re [Joana] an obnoxious brat who isn’t even trying to understand what other people are saying, since you *know everything*. I also think you’re dying to tell us what a very important muckety-muck you are in your little circle and it is terribly unattractive.

But hey, what do I know. I’s jes stooopid flyover-countreefolk.

alwaysfiredup on April 25, 2012 at 2:39 AM

Seems to me that you and Buckshot Bill were no match for Joana, who is one of the sharpest commenters on this site, so you two have to resort to calling her names. She is clearly more knowledgeable and makes stronger arguments than you Obama supporters who spend your time campaigning against our nominee while you pretend to be “true” conservatives.

bluegill on April 25, 2012 at 7:15 AM

jimver on April 25, 2012 at 1:46 AM

That wouldn’t be “Silver Dollar City” you went to? I was taken there many years ago as a little tyke…

MelonCollie on April 25, 2012 at 7:20 AM

Willard-Barry throwdown…this will be one to forget…

insidiator on April 25, 2012 at 7:34 AM

than you Obama supporters who spend your time campaigning against our nominee while you pretend to be “true” conservatives.

bluegill on April 25, 2012 at 7:15 AM

funny how your ilk call those who don’t lick romneys boots, liberals.
i suspect there are more liberals voting for romney than any other candidate.

you should be out handing out romney flyers and harassing people at walmart.LOL. me, i’m going to enjoy the show.

renalin on April 25, 2012 at 7:34 AM

Anyway, this night proves romney and white working-class republicans aren’t best friends yet. Good news.

joana on April 25, 2012 at 2:42 AM

ah, now that sounds better doesn’t it. plus it also rings true!

renalin on April 25, 2012 at 7:37 AM

And I’m a conservative at heart, not a die-hard-Republican-til-the-end-of-time like my grandfather was as a democrat. That, as much as anything, is why I can’t vote for Romney in November.

Buckshot Bill on April 25, 2012 at 12:32 AM

i voted for romney and 2008 and was ignorant.

now i know better. he’s worse than obama. word.

renalin on April 23, 2012 at 9:06 PM

Obama supporters “Buckshot Bill” and “Renalin” call themselves conservative but hope for Obama’s re-election, and campaign against our nominee. Though insignificant and miniscule in number, these kinds of big-mouthed, useful idiots for Obama spend a lot of time on internet comment boards, telling us all how principled they think they are and why an Obama second term would supposedly be good for the country and for conservatism.

These embarrassing, sad clowns who try to convince Republicans to either vote for Obama or not vote at all in November stand with Obama-voting internet trolls like “AngryEd”. Those who have a functioning brain (and who understand that Obama can and must be defeated this November) stand with Romney-supporting patriots like Ed Morrissey.

I know which Ed I would MUCH rather be aligned with, and it’s not the angry one!

bluegill on April 25, 2012 at 7:58 AM

bluegill on April 25, 2012 at 7:58 AM

whoa,whoa, whoa girl. such anger. you should be ecstatic. great speech they tell me, coronation under way.

romney is on the same path as obama. same ship, same course. just a different captain. why should i get excited.

don’t call me names. convince me. show me. move me.

renalin on April 25, 2012 at 8:12 AM

I’m now a Mitt-Bot!

ExpressoBold on April 24, 2012 at 9:02 PM

I am not nor will I be one …

I am however ABO

now if Mittens continues to be .. Obama is a nice guy
but in over his head … I am sure I can find another candidate …

conservative tarheel on April 25, 2012 at 8:34 AM

bluegill on April 25, 2012 at 7:58 AM

I guess you have a point. But I sure don’t share their view. Even though Romney was not first on my list, he was always above Obama by a large margin.
A recent Pew Research study concluded that conservatives are more tolerant toward opposing opinions and more knowledgeable about the actual issues and this primary proved that I think. In reality, I think more of Mitt’s “moderate” supporters are the ones that would actually vote for Obama if say, Newt or Palin were the nominee.

mike_NC9 on April 25, 2012 at 8:46 AM

convince me. show me. move me.

renalin on April 25, 2012 at 8:12 AM

i voted for romney and 2008 and was ignorant.

now i know better. he’s worse than obama. word.

renalin on April 23, 2012 at 9:06 PM

There is little point in begging an Obama-supporting contrarian like you who repeatedly brags about their supposed principled conservative credentials and who claims that Obama is preferable to Romney.

I know you think your support for Obama makes you look principled and smart (“hey, I’m such a pure conservative and so off the charts and to the right on the political spectrum that I come out on the other side and support Obama!”), but in reality you seem like a grandstanding poseur living in political fantasyland.

Real conservatives are voting Romney. Poseur big-mouths like you will throw your little tantrums, hoping to get noticed, but in the end you will not even register as a blip on the radar screen. People like you overestimate your numbers and your significance.

bluegill on April 25, 2012 at 8:56 AM

What a wonderful victory for Romney! This should cheer everybody up —except the Obama supporters, of course.

claudius on April 25, 2012 at 9:38 AM

Democrat trolls are panicking.

joana on April 24, 2012 at 8:30 PM

I’ll tell you who’s panicking: people who are becoming more convinced that 2012 will be a loss and there’s nothing weTHEY can do about it.

MelonCollie on April 24, 2012 at 8:34 PM

Fixed it for you.

ABRtards and LIBtards are indeed in a panic.

More popcorn. And while you are at it, throw some dogs on the barby.

Gunlock Bill on April 25, 2012 at 9:56 AM

Heh, the Repulican Party endorsed guy came in 3rd place in the PA primary to challenge for Casey’s Senate seat.

forest on April 25, 2012 at 10:08 AM

Congrats Romney!

how is it going in here Hot Airians? (I guess you need to be careful how to spell that last word, huh?)

Been a little busy over in the Hindu Kush for the last couple of weeks. You the Spring Offensive over here…

Now we just need the conservatives to begin their Spring Offensive…w/o guns of course before the Obama tracker picks up on my words here. haha

g2825m on April 25, 2012 at 10:14 AM

Now we just need the conservatives to begin their Spring Offensive…w/o guns of course before the Obama tracker picks up on my words here. haha

g2825m on April 25, 2012 at 10:14 AM

You’ll be receiving a message from the Secret Service any moment now…

changer1701 on April 25, 2012 at 11:40 AM

That wouldn’t be “Silver Dollar City” you went to? I was taken there many years ago as a little tyke…

MelonCollie on April 25, 2012 at 7:20 AM

yes, I believe that’s the correct name, ou must be from that state too??…we had a bunch of little brats on that trip with us, so it had to be put on the ‘menu’, well, I mean itinerary, to my much chagrin…

jimver on April 25, 2012 at 11:52 AM

now if Mittens continues to be .. Obama is a nice guy
but in over his head … I am sure I can find another candidate …

conservative tarheel on April 25, 2012 at 8:34 AM

Isn’t Ocommie a Husband ?
Isn’t he a Father ?
Isn’t he a messiah for millions?

You want a liberal MSM $hitStorm- go ahead and start the personal demonization — ALL that does is LOSE votes and turns off would be supporters – by giving the incompetent fraud in the WH the empathy of anyone who hates “negative” campaigning and mean white men.

Lets be smart- and also focused – this time. Stay out of the weeds.

FlaMurph on April 25, 2012 at 12:11 PM

FlaMurph on April 25, 2012 at 12:11 PM

not sure where you are going …
I want Romney it show
what a complete FAILURE Obama is
and what his policies are doing ..
not Obama is a nice guy – cuz he isnt
and not that he is in over his head -
cuz then all we need is someone to
better manage this mess … I dont want
a better managed mess … I want a cleared table
and start over …

conservative tarheel on April 25, 2012 at 1:39 PM

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